tv Dateline London BBC News October 7, 2017 11:30am-12:01pm BST
11:30 am
iflgfififiwm ' after this week, what has happened to those prospects? i think that consensus still holds. there was an attempt by some members of the parliamentary party to question the leadership. it really has fizzled remarkably quickly. apart from anything else, it's a demonstration of the quality of the whips operation, the people who control business in parliament, who used to be more neutral, they are now enforcers for the occupant of number ten. in force they have done very well. to be clear, this push was run bya well. to be clear, this push was run by a guy called grant shapps. if you we re by a guy called grant shapps. if you were picking the opponents you were going to face as a prime minister in the conservative party, that is who you would pick. he does not have a following in the conservative party. is that a reflection of the fact that people who share the views who are perhaps more senior don't really have the guts to strike out? no, i think there is genuine support for theresa may to see out the brexit
11:31 am
process. that is two years away. anyone making political predictions after two years anyone making political predictions after two yea rs is anyone making political predictions after two years is daydreaming. she predicted she would fight the next general election. i think every leader should make that prediction because as soon as you give a time limit to yourtime because as soon as you give a time limit to your time in office, you fatally undermine your ability to perform. i made ajoke fatally undermine your ability to perform. i made a joke about the sign falling apart. that wasn't the worst bit. a comedienne proffered a peabody five, saying it had come from borisjohnson, peabody five, saying it had come from boris johnson, her peabody five, saying it had come from borisjohnson, her foreign secretary, who had kept a low profile and support for the prime minister and then the poor by minister and then the poor by minister was struggling with such a terrible cold that it distracted.” feel very sorry for theresa may and i think the public do to but you
11:32 am
don't want them to fill sorry for you, you want respect and authority. theresa may does not have those qualities right now. in normal circumstances, and they are there. but these are not normal circumstances. we have brexit and thatis circumstances. we have brexit and that is very important. the tory party is completely split right now but they don't have a clear leader to replace theresa may and they are very aware they have a deck line with brexit. —— a deadline. very aware they have a deck line with brexit. -- a deadline. on the brexit question, we are coming up to a meeting of the heads of government. we had hoped in government. we had hoped in government that there may be the chance to speak about the post brexit relationship. what you think this week will have done to that? brexit relationship. what you think this week will have done to that7m isa this week will have done to that7m is a disaster. for europeans, it is astonishing. they still don't know what the british position is. the british want to discuss the future,
11:33 am
which is trade, without discussing about the past which is unheard of in multinational negotiation. the past being you have to settle the northern ireland frontier, the eu citizens and the money owed. the problem for the british is that the position is hard and, for the british government, on the continent with the german confederation of industry, they have talked which you have seen with emmanuel macron, who has opposed trade being discussed without first discussion of the previous three things. and the president of the united states is opposing the only deal which has been done at the moment on brexit and trade. it is astonishing that britain are completely isolated. what you say about trade is not true. in all trade negotiations, nothing is agreed until everything
11:34 am
is agreed. the reverse is actually the case. the europeans are currently saying, we cannot talk about our future engagement until we have reached a position on the settle m e nt have reached a position on the settlement for the divorce. of course, pragmatically, britain's attitude on that divorce will be altered by the settlement for the future. no, absolutely not. first you have to do settle your bills because you are the one getting out. you have to settle your bill first and then we discuss trades. give me one example, ever. any trading initiation ever. what i am getting here, jef, it a sort of recreation of the michel barnier david davies conversations that have been happening. let's bring injef. you can't all talk at once or nobody
11:35 am
will hear anything. marc claimed that things are always settled first. but when you say always, you mean never. ok, just... -- ok, jef... mean never. ok, just... -- ok, jef. .. if i mean never. ok, just... -- ok, jef... ifi can try to be unite both parts of this conversation, what is fundamental is that brexit is still the third rail or the fundamental is that brexit is still the third rail orthe main fundamental is that brexit is still the third rail or the main thing fundamental is that brexit is still the third rail orthe main thing in the third rail orthe main thing in the british conservative party and british politics and there is no obvious good solution. the fact it isa obvious good solution. the fact it is a multilateral negotiation with 27 countries which have the tape and britain is weak and divided and even in the conservative party, it isn't clear how... hold on a second. at the conference, you were there, i only read about it, i understand that jacob rees mogg was the kind of heart—throb of the fringe meetings
11:36 am
with i9th—century dress, it only, against gay marriage, against abortion on all circumstances —— underany abortion on all circumstances —— under any circumstances, likening brexit to the battle of agincourt and all these emotional ideas of british weakness, rather than this isa tough, british weakness, rather than this is a tough, cobb located problem that britain is bringing on itself, where the economy is growing the slowest in europe. regarding the labour party, i think jeremy corbyn is in an easy
11:37 am
position. but, if we finally see jeremy corbyn as prime minister, who knows? one thing is clear, over the last two years, anything could happen. we will have the same problem, a party completely split and without any connection. remembering most of the members of parliament, labour, support remain. but in the brexit referendum we see a lot of labour supporters support brexit. if finally we are going to see the labour party is going to have the same situation. alex, it would be naive of europe to think things would change the change of leader. jeremy corbyn before he became leader was a eurosceptic. but they did have a better conference.
11:38 am
they had an upbeat conference full of young people with a party, festival atmosphere, but it seemed a bit more based around a personality platform around their leader rather than the policies, and it is when they put those forward, they start to run the gauntlet of visibility.” think the support ofjeremy corbyn asa think the support ofjeremy corbyn as a rock star is just an illusion. i think he has the full support of the party. it doesn't matter who it is. the british have been useless. we have lost 18 months to bickering and we don't know what they want, until we know what they want, we can't go further forward. you read the papers that came from david davis? of course you did. on tuesday, the regional parliament in catalonia will meet and perhaps declare itself the parliament of a nation. spain's constitutional court says all such moves are unlawful, spain's government threatens to impose direct rule. violence marred last sunday's independence referendum, with a big ‘yes' vote but a disputed mandate. is it clear after the last few days
11:39 am
if anybody is in charge? let me say that i am deeply worried and sad about what is happening in my country. the pictures are horrendous and for the parties, it's easy to say to the international community, look what happened when we went to vote, but i think it's worth remembering that whole picture. and the whole picture is that we have parties who want to declare unilaterally the independence of catalonia against spanish law, against catalonian law, because the referendum was illegal. but the most important thing, against the will of the majority of the catalan people, because we have to remember these are parties who won just 40% in the
11:40 am
last catalan elections in 2015. is that why the prime minister has suggested perhaps another election is needed in catalonia? if we have another election and a different result, it would be very clear, but at that point, what is the fact is that the parties had just 48% in the last regional election and they want to unilaterally declare independence. finally, next week, the president of catalonia is going to declare, though i doubt that will happen, because the parties are split right now, the tension will escalate. so obviously we have a problem right here. we need to fix it but under a legal framework. alex, there here. we need to fix it but under a legalframework. alex, there is here. we need to fix it but under a legal framework. alex, there is a difference in how this has developed
11:41 am
against the campaign for independence in scotland and the relationship between the central government and the regional government. i appreciate britain doesn't have a written constitution which has perhaps made things easier. we were wider critical about the way we conducted our referendum. language for kwame —— became quite rude and harsh. i think we can actually be quite proud of it compared to spain. it may not be right, celia, that the referendum was lawful... it wasn't, it was illegal. but it is unquestionably right that the spanish national government has behaved appallingly in battering its own citizens away from an election and in seizing ballot boxes. if they wanted to say this was without credibility and should be dismissed, say that, don't sendin should be dismissed, say that, don't send in policeman to beat citizens and have fireman protecting them.
11:42 am
this either has no credibility and it doesn't matter or it's so important that we have to stop it?” wa nt to important that we have to stop it?” want to be clear about this point. i condemn the violence, but if we talk about the violence, and i don't want to focus on the dark violence, i wa nt to to focus on the dark violence, i want to focus on the democracy. the violence is around catalonia and thatis violence is around catalonia and that is very sad, because if we talk about violence we talk about violence with the police as well and we talk about violence from radical separatist groups against the families of those who support spain. i think it is terrible because as faras i think it is terrible because as far as europe is concerned, we can't do anything, squeezed between quite in transient parties, in transition government with the flemish lombardi and is going their own way, because like catalonia they are fed up of paying for a poorer apart. the only
11:43 am
solution, and for once i agree with you, isa solution, and for once i agree with you, is a scottish type of referendum. let me finish, because a scottish type of referendum, the moderate had the upper hand, saying that at the end of the day, independence will be a disaster. it is only because catalonia will be out of the eu and they have to reapply. i think we all have a very strong interest in this. it's important. europe spilled a lot of blood in the last century focusing on nationalism and micro nationalism, my rights and my laws versus yours. it has to be using political process, where maybe now the shock of the violence will make the shock of the violence will make the central government retreat and the central government retreat and the shock of the violence will make the shock of the violence will make the separatist movement thing, maybe we can figure out a way to have a federal system that gives us 98% and that's good enough? i think for the structure of europe, we don't want
11:44 am
another european country focusing inward on its own navel and its own problems again. we need to think about your problems. but it's not just the europeans. everyone remembers lincoln suspended corpus. i don't remember what he did. he tried to suspend voting in maryland. we are still paying the price of the yugoslav dismemberment, the european —— of the ussr dismemberment.” think it is very important to say that the catalan issue is very different to the scottish situation, so please don't compare them, because they are completely different. but isn't that because politicians have made them different, not because the instinct is any different? in catalan, we show —— in scotland, we show a legal
11:45 am
referendum. in catalan, we have an illegal one. is that because it is not possible to have a legal one? i'm not being provocative, i am just asking. no, it's fine. maybe we have time to look up the constitution and if we have to change the constitution, we have to talk about this, but in the legal frame again. 0k, it is this, but in the legal frame again. ok, it is not possible that against the will of the minority of the cata la n the will of the minority of the catalan people want to declare independence. we have very important companies and banks moving their headquarters out of the catalan region. obviously, we have a problem to fix, but the problem has to be fixed in the legal framework. but you finish like in scotland. after
11:46 am
the referendum, there was a deal to give more autonomy, fiscal and economic. and the basque region already has greater autonomy. there isa already has greater autonomy. there is a model in the spanish state border. i don't understand the need to stress so much whether or not this is legitimate under the current constitution, because it seems like it can never be legitimate for the region to seek self—determination and that can't be right in democracy. more to the point, if it is against the will of the majority, why are you afraid of the referendum? the majority would vote no. i think this is relevant as well. we have discussed so mini figures on the catalan government because that was an illegal referendum, 90% of the support, 43,010 at -- 43% referendum, 90% of the support, 43,010 at —— 43% turnout, i think we should take that with a pinch of salt. it might have been higher if
11:47 am
people weren't turned away and beaten. let's discuss it in a legal way, not in this way. can i ask how much you think this is unfinished business from the establishment of a democratic spain? because one of the things you associate with general franco's time is that he suppressed separate identity because he was worried about spain breaking up. is this still the legacy of the unfinished business of that or it is entirely unconnected with that? well, obviously the history is history and without that, we couldn't understand what happened in catalonia, what happened in the world, but i think one of the greatest things spain is that diversity. 0k? and busily catalonia isa diversity. 0k? and busily catalonia is a great region. if people are not happy with the current situation, maybe it's time for a debate, but again, in the central parliament, in the parliament of catalonia as well
11:48 am
but ina the parliament of catalonia as well but in a legal framework. you need to change the constitution. but in a legal framework. but if the government don't want to do anything or the king, what can they do? now, it's a measure of how frequent multiple gun murders in the united states are in the headlines that many people were more shocked by the number of injuries than by the number of dead. the one—man carnage wreaked by stephen paddock from his hotel room high above the country music concert crowd took at least 58 lives; many among those being treated have life—threatening wounds. more than 500 were injured because paddock had altered his weapon. jef, tell us about the bump stop and why this could potentially be a ca ta lyst why this could potentially be a catalyst for change? a bump stock is a kind of home—grown device you can
11:49 am
get from the internet for $100 that allows you to use the recoiling out of the gun to essentially automate the trigger pull so that it can go very fast. it makes a semiautomatic weapon into a kind of automatic weapon, a machine gun. isn't it fantastic what technology can accomplish? now the national rifle association, in all of these previous mass killings, it tends to go to ground for a little while and they, oh, we are sorry, let's pray for the victims and their families, it's terrible that there are bad people in the world, mental illness is terrible, and then they don't change anything. now their concession is that they are going to regulate bump stocks. as if anyone really cares. i'm sorry, of course i do desperately care that that tiny addition to those thousands of weapons is reduced, but there are many other things you can buy to
11:50 am
make your guns more lethal to. the nra was pushing last week to make silence is easier to buy. that will probably go off the boil for a little while because the mechanism is always to do more and to make guns more available. there are now over £250 million in the united states with a population of 300 million. the murder rate by gun is 25 times higher than any other similar country. itjust doesn't, it has become part of the background noise, death by gun, in america. i have a badge from the national rifle association when i was in summer camp at age 11 and i was taught to shoot a rifle safely. then it was a rifle shooting association. now it has become a very lucrative, very powerful lobby. most red states wouldn't like to have more regulation, most blue states would. the nation is in red states that they are the frontier, you need a
11:51 am
gun to protect yourself. in blue states, big cities, nobody really wa nts to states, big cities, nobody really wants to do it, but you can't get the regulation. we are still having gun murders all the time, seven children a day, and you don't see much room pushing for effective regulation because most people have given up already. in australia after tremendous gun violence, in england after dunblane, effective regulation came into source —— into force, but americans don't really think it applies to our system. well, john howard in australia, a liberal prime minister, took away the right to bear arms minister, took away the right to beararms in minister, took away the right to bear arms in anything like your sense. we still have farmers with shotguns. then he bought an election. that was an exceptionally brave piece of leadership. that is what they were needed the united
11:52 am
states. the answer is to amend the constitution. it is a constitutional issue,in constitution. it is a constitutional issue, in the end, and if you wish to have these things interpreted differently by your courts and in law, you amend the constitution.” would actually argue that the current interpretation of the constitution is incorrect. i am a lawyer. i would say the minority had the better end of the deal with the guts to regulation. this is not militia, this is not a musket in the 18th century. it's a cultural thing. you are absolutely right. either we have a change in the supreme court and they voted out and people was a black helicopters are going to come and take away my guns. it has got to be cultural and political. it is a 50 year problem, if that. we don't understand it in europe. the crime is high and hollywood is making lots
11:53 am
of money with its movies on guns and all that. actually, most americans don't own guns. it's a small minority that own a lot of guns. but it is for them, very, very important. do you think aside from the bump stop and whether or not that gets banned, this terrible tragedy will have an effect? no, i don't see any dynamic that can change it. it is actually getting worse. more people are getting killed in the mass shootings and the technology is getting better. people learn from it. all the tricks are used to keep the police the way, to have two shooting points in the hotel. people will read about that an example of thing, i will do even better. so you think banning it is only a small change? it is a small change, it might help a little, but
11:54 am
i don't think it will make fundamental difference —— make a fundamental difference —— make a fundamental difference. thank you all very much. that's all we have time for this week. do join us again next week, same time same place. but for now, thank you for watching and goodbye. hello there. the weather is looking fairly mixed through the course of the weekend. cloudy skies around today but a bit more brightness likely to break through during the afternoon. this was how the morning looked in stirling, taken by one of our weather watchers, and out of all that cloud we have seen plenty of showers around already. here is a weather front pushing its way south
11:55 am
witherley sweats through this afternoon. that should gradually clear away from southern england but we will see wayne lingering across the south—west of england for. elsewhere across the country, some writers both trying to break through, but still a great story particularly towards the north—west, with further blustery showers around as well. it will fill blustery wherever you are. during this afternoon, that rainbow bereuter across parts of cornwall, perhaps into devon, but sony across —— dry across southern england. north—east england and eastern scotland, you are likely to stay dry with some sunshine. northern ireland and north—western scotland, cloudy skies with further blustery showers moving in and temperatures 13 or 15 degrees f. if you are hoping to see the drug amid media shower tonight, the drug amid media shower tonight, the clearest diver likely across eastern scotland, north—east england, southern england and where
11:56 am
it is cloudy your view of the skies will be inhibited. wherever you are,... the second half of the weekend looks to have dry conditions and warmer temperatures than today. many of us should avoid the showers through the day tomorrow and it will fill pleasant, 15 to 18 degrees our top temperatures. it is an unsettled picture though throughout the week next week. monday, not a bad day, mostly dry starting off, with a few showers feeding in from the western pa rt showers feeding in from the western part of the country. dreyer further east and in the sunnier spells, reasonably light winds and monday should feel quite warm, 15 to 17 degrees. it is looking unsettled with more wins and stronger rain later in the week.
11:57 am
in this is bbc news. i'm sean ley. the headlines at midday. senior conservatives rally around the prime minister — borisjohnson tells mps to get behind theresa may and turn the fire onjeremy corbyn. rallies are under way in spain against catalonian independence — after last weekend's disputed referendum. these are the scenes in madrid. concerns for one of northern ireland's biggest employers after us authorities impose more heavy tariffs on bombardier planes. also in the next hour, a treat in store for sky gazers. the draconid meteor shower could show off dozens of shooting stars, in the skies above the uk tonight. and click explores the world of virtual reality in half an hour.
43 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on