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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  October 10, 2017 12:30am-1:01am BST

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firestorms in california's history which is tearing its way through the state's wine regions. the fires cover an area larger than 60,000 acres. more than 20,000 people have been evacuated. winds of more than 60 kilometres per hour are fanning the flames across the region. barnabyjoyce, australia's deputy pm is one of seven mps facing scrutiny over dual citizenship. the saga that's gripped the country is due to be debated in the nation's highest court. and this story is trending on bbc.com... 0scar winning producer harvey weinstein has been sacked from his own company following allegations that he sexually harassed women for decades. some in hollywood including meryl streep condemned his behaviour. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur.
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we are all familiar with rock music's living legends. thinkjagger or springsteen. but perhaps more intriguing are rock and roll‘s cult heroes. those artists who have inspired others without getting massive rewards. my guest today, wilko johnson, fits that bill. his raw guitar sound in the band dr feelgood paved the way for punk. he's kept on rocking through cancer, depression, and changing musical tastes. so what keeps him going? wilkojohnson, welcome to hardtalk. thank you.
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i want to start in 2013. when you were diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer. i believe the doctors said you had less than a year to live and yet, here you sit with me. how weird is that? it's very weird. in fact, it's stranger now for me to try and look back and imagine, imagine that year i spent expecting... death? death, yes. i think of waking up every morning with that, and i can't... you know, i can't... i mean, i'm back in the world now, so... and yet, one of the striking and for many people, strange things about the way you responded was that you refused chemo. you said you didn't want any of that. and you carried on making music, playing the gigs around the world? yeah, well they gave me the diagnosis.
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told me that my pancreatic cancer, that it was terminal, and it was inoperable. there was nothing they could do. and that i had something less than a year to live. and they said they could give me chemotherapy. but that they couldn't cure it. they couldn't stop it. all they could do was go down. all they could do was slow it down. in fact they said you know, without chemo, you know, i might last ten months. and with chemo i might last a year. so it's not difficult. so ijust told them i didn't want to lose my hair! but not only did you reject chemotherapy, you actually went back out on the road. i remember reading about one extraordinary gig in, i think it was in tokyo, where they knew that
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you were terminally ill. the huge audience there, i mean half of them were in tears? about two thirds of them, i think! no, it was... while the tumour was growing inside me and in fact, it was swelling, it was very visible, it was swelling, my stomach was swelling right out. you mean actually onstage? yes, in fact my guitar used to actually rock on the thing! so i was always aware of this thing. normally when you stand with your guitar, it lies flat across your stomach. this tumour was pushing out, so... were you in pain? no, this is the thing. although this thing was so obtrusive, it... there wasn't any pain, or not much. i mean, i would get, i would feel sick and there was blood occasionally. but no pain.
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when they gave me the diagnosis i said well, how long you know, can i expect to kind of be walking around, and what's going to happen when it hits me? and they said, when it hits you, you know, you're going to go through all the cancer things. and my wife died 13 years ago of cancer. and i witnessed this, the terrible, it's terrible. and they said well, you know, sooner or later the symptoms will commence. and that will knock me off my feet. but right as it was, i was ok. so i thought well, i said you know, have i got maybe six months? and they said, yeah. so i said well, 0k, there'sjust enough time to do a farewell tour! which we did. and at time, that was in the first part of the year, my sole ambition
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was just to stay well enough to finish this tour. but what is fascinating about your psychology and your response to all of this unimaginable, horrible stuff, is that you said, you know, with the terminal diagnosis, you felt free. you said free from the future and the past. free from everything but the moment that i'm in now. yes, this is true. in fact, when they gave me the diagnosis, i wasn't expecting them to tell me i've got cancer. i suppose i had my suspicions, but it was a surprise. but when they told me, i remember sitting, i was absolutely calm. i felt absolutely calm. and the doctor told me some things and then i walked home. i remember walking out of the hospital, which is quite
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near to where i live, i was going to walk home and it was a beautiful winter's day. and looking up, blue sky and seeing the trees against the clouds and thinking, it's beautiful. i'm alive. it felt so intense. i was looking at those trees and thinking, i'm alive, i'm alive. and by the time i got home, i was almost ecstatic. which is fascinating because you are a man who has suffered from quite severe depression at many different times in your life? sounds like getting a death sentence would have cheered you up! well, there you go! i mean, why i get the misery as i call it, i do not know. it's just something i've had all my life. but when that happened to me, it literally went away. because kind of you got a different way of looking at things, you know. and by the time i got home from the hospital, i was feeling so high that i was thinking, maybe this is like delayed shock or something.
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in a moment i'm going to collapse in a heap, you know. but i didn't. and itjust carried on like that. and... it sounds terrible to say it, but in a funny sort of way, your very public and honest acknowledgement that you had a terminal illness and the fact that you then went on a farewell tour, a lot of people started writing about the heritage of your music. the degree to which you had influenced a whole genre of hard rock which, you know then morphed into punk in the late 1970s, i mean, you said it yourself in a very dry turn of phrase. you said it turned out cancer was a great career move! well, it was, actually. i mean, i don't know quite how it happened. but my case got, i don't know, somehow or other the media got hold of it. i think it was that we'd had to cancel a couple of local gigs and just made an announcement on the website, on our website, that we were cancelling some gigs.
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and then i said why. and somehow or other it got into the news. and i was, i mean from here to new york, i mean in fact in america, i had a small part in game of thrones, i was being reported as actor, wilkojohnson. well many of your audience will love game of thrones. you were the rather grim mute executioner in i think it was series one. a nasty piece of work! you didn't have many lines, clearly, because you were mute! this is what was great, i have never done any acting before and when i got this part, the guy has had his tongue cut out, he can't speak, there is no lines. all i'd got do was give people
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dirty looks, really! which is what you did throughout your career, frankly, onstage! i could do that! yes. i suppose i'm wondering about whether it was quite gratifying, you know, when somebody is very publicly gravely ill and appears to be dying, in a sense, because you're not actually dead, you can get to see the nature of your own epitaph or obituary. and you must have realised that your music and going all the way back to the early 1970s and you founding dr feelgood, your music it turns out meant a huge amount to an awful lot of people? well, i certainly found out and as you say, it was the kind of thing, one of the first things i did after my diagnosis and before i did a farewell tour, i actually went to japan which is a place i love very much. and actually did a couple of improvised gigs. kyoto and one in tokyo. in aid of the disaster fund for the fu kushima disaster. and i mean, the news was on the internet then the whole
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sort of, the place was packed out. there were people on the street, tv screens on the street. and ijust... i don't know, i mean you step out in front of an audience like that and you can't go wrong. and the kind of, the feeling was... i remember leaving the stage in kyoto and you walk up the stairs and you're looking down on the crowd. and we are singing bye—byejohnny, and we're singing bye—bye, waving. and looking down at this crowd. and all these kind ofjapanese faces all in tears, you know going bye—bye! that must‘ve been intensely moving? it was, it was really moving. but i didn't feel sad. i just thought, this is great show business! well, wilko, we've got to get to the next bit.
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you didn't die. in fact, bizarrely, a surgeon who also was a bit of a rock and roll photographer, he came i know to one of your gigs, he photographed you, he looked at what was happening to your tumour and he said, i'm not sure you're terminal. i think somebody could help you. this is true. charlie chan, for such is his name, was, we were playing after the farewell tour, i was still on my feet. so we continued on into the summer doing festivals. and we were playing at a festival and charlie was there and he was taking photographs. and we were talking. i suppose we must have talked about my illness. i found out he was in fact a cancer surgeon. and then some months later towards the end of the year, charlie came to my house and said, he thought there was something strange about this. because if i was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer injanuary,
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by then i should have either been dead or very, very sick. but i was in fact still on my feet. there was something strange, this was not the usual... by now the tumour was absolutely huge. my stomach was swollen. and he told me he would like me to go and see mr emanuel huget, who is a surgeon at addenbrooke‘s hospital. and see what he thought. and he took a look at the thing and said he thought they could do it. and that was such... cut it out? yes. and then sitting with mr huget telling me, describing, you know, describing my case and saying what he thought they could do. and i'm sitting there, and this is a year later, and i'm thinking, is this guy telling me he can save my life? weird beyond weird, you know.
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and i remember walking away from that meeting, actually laughing and thinking, this is stupid. i mean, you wouldn't accept this in a soap opera! to cut this gory story a little bit short, you had a massive surgery, i think it lasted ten hours or something. and he cut out a three kilograms tumour? yes. and in essence, he saved your life. are you still totally in remission? yes, i go for a scan every six months. and they keep an eye on things. but i'm 0k. so here you are with the sort of second life? yes. i mean, i think you've turned 70? yes. it must feel almost like you're a newborn! yes! i mean, i think i learned during that time that you just never know what's going to happen. i mean, i never thought, as you say, i turned 70 last month.
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i didn't think that was going to happen. i never thought that was going to happen anyway! i certainly didn't think it since 2013. and... i mean, i've heard a lot of rock and roll stories. quite a few weird ones in this studio. but yours is pretty unique. i mean, it's extraordinary. yeah. then after university you became a teacher, but you fell into rock and roll. but notjust any old rock and roll, really raw sort of down and dirty rock and roll. some call that pub rock. but it's just basically kids being loud and a little bit obnoxious in a very raw rock and roll way? how did you get from being a teacher and quite a literary guy, to doing that? well, as you say i became a teacher. and while i was doing that i was still living in my hometown
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ca nvey island and... that's in essex, on the east coast? yes, on the estuary. quite an unusual place. ca nvey island, man, it's below sea level! i was born below sea level! it's a very special place because it's sort ofjust above the thames estuary, but very isolated, even though it's quite close to london? yes, canvey island changes all the time, actually. last time i went over there, i mean, people often want to interview me over there. and i was going over there recently with a camera crew and people like that. and we went to canvey and i got lost because itjust keeps changing all the time! i mean, when i was a kid it was more or less rural. there was nothing there but dirt roads and oil depots and things like that. but it's kind of
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like a new town now. but your brand of rock and roll, that's what i'm really interested in. because it was very sort of raw, energetic, and some say it had in it a spirit of punk. do you see it that way? well, it all kind of fitted together. i mean we started the band, dr feelgood, in the early ‘70s. that's as i say when i was a schoolteacher. and we were exactly like any local band, we were just you know, local friends and we wanted to play rock and roll. and the kind of thing we wanted to play was the sort of thing really that the rolling stones brought to this country. you know. although this is the early ‘70s and rock and roll wasn't like that any more. it was all kind of, i don't know what they call it. well there was a lot of glam rock. and sort of supergroups. huge electronic, you know playing to 6 million people. pink floyd, led zeppelin,
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deep purple. all that kind of thing. and we just wanted to play this rock and roll thing. simpler stuff? and we were just doing this locally. it wasn't very fashionable, but we liked it. and we found it entertained us more and entertained the people more, not only were we playing this stuff but we were kind of you know... edgy. yeah, you know... # i like to fly but i stick close to the ground. # if i get too high somebody will shoot me down. # used to be a time when you could get your fun. # didn't have to watch yourself with anyone. # but it seems like these days everybody‘s carrying a gun. # i had a girl, as fine as she could be...# a lot of people likejohn lydon,
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johnny rotten, sex pistols and paul weller and others said you know what, dr feelgood were a really big deal in the way we developed our sound. and john lydon was full of anger on stage. were you genuinely full of anger and sort of giving a finger to the authorities? no, i mean, as i say, when we started playing locally, in the first couple of years we were just playing locally around southend. you know. hometown. and we found we could, i don't know, entertain people, could provoke more of a reaction. you know, the fans then, they would stand with their backs to the audience and looking at their shoes and playing all these, you know. we were giving it
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a bit of, you know? and we'd kind of worked this things, we got pretty good at it. and when we started playing in london a couple of years later, it was instantly, people took to this. and i think most of the guys that were going to start the punk bands were watching us, actually. well, they have actually said that. and the next year the punk bands all started coming. but here's the brutal question, did you care that while punk took off, sex pistols and others you know, made a huge amount of money, became world—famous and the generation before you, the stones and all of those big rock groups, they made a pile of money. dr feelgood, although you had a cult following and a loyal audience, you never became commercially a massive band. well, this was because in factjust as the punk bands were coming out, doctor feelgood, we were kind of on the way out. we had a one number one,
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our third album went straight into number one. a live album. and we were ready to go, we'd started touring america, we were ready to go and do it. we were doing our fourth album, we had this huge argument and they chucked me out of the band. that was right when the punk thing was happening. why, why did they chuck you out of the band? because they're idiots! obviously there may be another point of view! but you know, bands are famous for having what they call artistic differences. but what were your differences? i don't think there was anything artistic about dr feelgood! no, it'sjust... i don't know. just didn't get on? there was this huge argument and it went on all night long and by the morning, everybody is well, blow you. and anyway, yeah, they threw me out
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of the band and they went on that way really, rather wretched. and i carried on. and i carried on my own a while and then ijoined ian dury and the blockheads and i spent some time with them. you've had your own band for 30 years? yeah, right. all of us ex—blockheads, actually. yes. i talked earlier about depression and i just wonder whether, and depression is a difficult thing and there is no single cause. but was there an element of disappointment in your career that was part of your depression, do you think? oh no, no. i'm miserable wherever i go! whatever i'm doing, i contrive to be miserable! i could contrive to be miserable in the garden of eden, i'm sure! it's just the way you are, you know.
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yeah, yeah. i mean my brother, and we're very close, but he's nothing like that at all. he doesn't suffer from that. tell me about the music scene today, because you're about to play the royal albert hall. as i say, you've kept yourfan base throughout your career. but if you look at the music scene today, imagine yourself, the young wilko, growing up in canvey island. the kids today when they grow up, they don't want it seems to me, to play loud, edgy, energetic guitar music, rock and roll, blues—based music. they all want to be on the x factor, on a talent competition, with an auto—tune machine. do you think that's changed? well as you said, man, i'm 70! ' stitie etiti'éé fifiéittfi' t't' so what they're doing, i don't know. but if they're having a good time, then good. 0n the note of looking forward
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to you playing many more gigs, wilko johnson, thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you. thank you very much indeed. hello there. quite a lot of cloud bursting across the southern half of the british isles. some drizzly outbreaks of rain, as well, in parts of england and wales. the best of the sunshine first thing today is likely to be across scotland. for northern england, perhaps some breaks in the cloud, and for the midlands, too. here is the picture first thing, as you can see. fairly solid cloud across england and wales. we'll take a closer look
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at where the breaks are to be found injust a second. but really you can already see the contrast — scotland and northern england looking much clearer. northern ireland likely to see some sunshine in shelter from the westerly or south—westerly wind. some showers arriving for the morning, as well, one or two of them heavy during the rush hour. still strong winds and some hefty showers for the northern isles. the showers as we get onto the mainland of scotland a little bit more scattered. some heavy ones possible through the central lowlands. here at least, in between the showers, some decent sunshine. sunshine across northern england first thing, too. although look out for some rain in the northern bay area, stretching towards lincolnshire. some glimmers of sunshine for the midlands and perhaps the south—east of england. thicker cloud, however, across the south—west, and some more persistent, if not particularly heavy, outbreaks of rain here. stretch those across the bristol channel into southern wales, as well. to the lee of the welsh hills and mountains, however, there will be some sunshine to get the day underway through herefordshire, up into the likes of warwickshire and into the midlands.
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things improve through the morning. i think we will see more in the way of sunshine, whereas further south, some of that cloud is going to filter its way further eastwards into the south—east of england. so enjoy any early brightness, because it looks like the afternoon for the south—east and east anglia will be cloudy, with some outbreaks of rain. further west, a little brighter. but then cast your eye towards the north—west, where, after that glorious start for scotland, it has all really gone downhill, thicker cloud and outbreaks of rain arriving. that's this frontal system here, coming in from the north. tightly squeezing isobars, as well, mean strong winds, and that wet weather pushes across northern ireland, northern england, into wales and the midlands through the small hours of wednesday. so a pretty wet and windy story as wednesday gets underway, and this rain is really going to tot up as well for some parts of southern scotland, northern england and wales. particularly, i think, the cumbrian fels and the mountains of snowdonia. a dollop of rain, perhaps up to 100 millimetres, before we are through with this weather system, the rain getting further south into wales and the south—west of england come the afternoon. the south—east, with some sunshine, could see up to 18 degrees, and northern ireland and scotland
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will clear as the day goes on. thursday probably the best day of the week across the board, in terms of some dry and fine weather. just like winter, as well. and temperatures around average for the time of year, in the mid teens. i'm rico hizon in singapore, the headlines: a top republican says president trump could set america on a path to world war iii, and claims white house staff try to contain the man at the top. one of the worst firestorms in california's history is tearing its way through parts of the state's wine region, killing at least three people. —— ten people. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: barnabyjoyce, australia's deputy pm, is one of seven politicians facing scrutiny over dual citizenship. the saga that's gripped the country is due to be debated in the nation's highest court. and we travel to the pakistani border with afghanistan
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where the army is building a fence to keep out the militants.
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