hello, it's tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. our top story today — serious racial divides exist across british society. that's the findings from the government's huge race audit. although i was the most qualified and the most experienced, i was still looked over by a white man who was eventually put into the position. we are gathering people from across the uk to to the fact over what can be done to shorten the racial divide. also, animal welfare groups say mobile blues are an ethical and can cause distress to animals. if they go for things, does that mean they can go for children's hands? absolutely. the government has told us it is

taking action to force them to get licenses, but some animal welfare groups wantan licenses, but some animal welfare groups want an all—out ban. we will bring you the details. prison governors are calling for an end to short prison sentences of 12 months, calling them pointless. if you have beenin calling them pointless. if you have been injailfor less calling them pointless. if you have been in jail for less than 12 calling them pointless. if you have been injailfor less than 12 miles, tell us about your experience. they did eat you from committing crime ain? did eat you from committing crime again? let us know. daschle did deter you. hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning. use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story: sweeping inequalities between different ethnic groups in areas like education, housing and health. the findings show that

people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds are twice as likely to be unemployed and that white, working—class students at state schools are less likely to go to university. elaine buckley reports. it was theresa may's promise when she became prime minister to make a fairer britain for everyone. today's audit of race shows inequality and divisions. perena polius is a maths teacher. she won a race discrimination tribunal and believes we are far from an equal society. the fact i have to be ten times better than my white colleagues in order to go forward and make any progress, although i was the most qualified and the most experienced, i was still looked over by a white male, who was eventually put into the position. today the government will introduce extra help for getting minorities trying to find a job in 20 areas across britain, where there are the greatest inequalities. but is it enough to tackle what the government calls

uncomfortable truths? there should be a coherent strategy where government actually appoints one individual, ideally a secretary of state, to lead on the development, the implementation and the delivery of a coherent race strategy. the government says it's highlighting burning injustices, but there's also the burning question, can the government deliver radical measures that will get under the skin of racial and social inequalities? let's have a word with our correspondence. how significant will this be? this report matters because it will give us a clearer sense of what is going on between different ethnicities. when it comes to housing, health, employmentand ethnicities. when it comes to housing, health, employment and the criminal justice system. housing, health, employment and the criminaljustice system. too many of us criminaljustice system. too many of us this will not be a massive surprise because we have known for a long time there are fewer black,

asian or ethnic minority teachers and if you are from a white british group you are more likely to have a job. but this report will give us more of a sense that up and down the country we will have a clearer sense of what is going on, particularly the north— south divide. the government is due to publish its findings on its new website called ethnicity facts and figures, and we are talking about thousands of statistics and loss of data. it is the first time we have a clearer sense of what is going on extensively between these different ethnic groups when it comes to housing, health care, education. the prime minister has described this as holding upa prime minister has described this as holding up a mirror to our society. some of the initial findings, holding up a mirror to our society. some of the initialfindings, we know nine out of ten headteachers are more likely to be from a white british background. white pupils from state schools are more likely to not go to university. when it comes to housing, if you are from a

white british group you are more likely to own your own home, but if you are from a black, asian or ethnic minority group, you are more likely to be in social housing or renting. the government plans to analyse this information, create hotspots, and maybe start implementing things like traineeships or mentor schemes to help close the gap and make things fairer in the future. we will be talking to a group of people, including an mp, a police officer, a barrister, a health worker, to discuss this story, to chew over the fat, to see how they react to the fa ct fat, to see how they react to the fact that all of the stats, which are not new, but they are being put in one place, how they might change things. your own experiences are very welcome. do send me an e—mail. do send me an e—mail. now a summary of the rest of today's news. the government is being encouraged

to release inmates serving short jail terms in order to ease the pressure on the prison system in england and wales. the court is being made by the president of the prison governors association at its annual conference today. the chief inspector of prisons highlights what it says are the insanitary, unhygienic and degrading conditions that many inmates are being held in. unions are demanding urgent talks with bae systems following news that the defence company is expected to &5; 5.25255; ”me-w". is. egeefiefi ff‘. . v7 . 7—7 —— 7— !22 2252252 "me-w". is. 23422522 ‘j2 . v7 . 7—7 —— 7— more 922 2252252 "me-w". is. 23422522 ‘j2 v v7 v 7v7 vv 7 v more than 922 22522222 ”me-w". is. 23422522 ‘j2 v v7 v 7v7 vv 7 v more than 1000 job losses. confirm more than 1000 job losses. it is understood most of the posts affected will be at two plant in lancashire. an official announcement is due this morning. the care quality commission says hospitals, gp practices and other parts of the health and care system are at straining point, straining at the seams, in what it describes in the seams, in what it describes in the first complete picture across the first complete picture across the sector. it says the unprecedented pressure comes from people living longer.

from the doors of emergency departments, where they cope with rising numbers of people needing help, to nursing home beds closing, and care homes struggling to find the staff they need, today's report says this is a health and care system under huge pressure. the regulator, the care quality commission, says it is thanks to the hard work of staff that most care is good, but it warns that the future quality of care looks precarious. extra money has helped ease some pressures in the short—term, but the man who runs the cqc says it is vital there is a long—term plan to support the ageing population soon. there is an urgent need to have some stability and security in the system so that the future generations can begin to receive high—quality care. at the minute we haven't got the security and the stability of knowing what the future holds. there is no date yet for the government's promised green paper on social care but it says that it is investing more

in both services and staff. the rspca says it is alarmed by the growing popularity of exotic animals such as meerkats and snakes making appearances at child ren‘s such as meerkats and snakes making appearances at children's parties. the charity is concerned many animals use at parties by so—called mobile zoos are being kept in poor, cramped conditions, and being handled inappropriately. from next year stricter regulations will be introduced in england, while the scottish and welsh governments are looking into the issue. a council in west london is considering legal action against anti—abortion protesters accused of harassing women who attend the clinic. daily vigils are being held outside bain—marie stokes clinic by

campaigners carrying what has been described as deliberately disturbing images. ealing council is due to decide whether to pursue a public space protection order to prevent disruption. the fashion designer donna karan has been criticised by defending the film producer harvey weinstein who is accused of sexually harassing multiple women. in an interview with the daily mail she said women who dressed sensually could be asking for trouble. she later said her comments were out of context and apologise to anyone who was offended. 0n apologise to anyone who was offended. on sunday harvey weinstein was fired by the board of the company he founded after it load of new information about his behaviour. wildfires in the us state of california have killed at least ten people and forced 20,000 from their holmes. a state of emergency has been declared in three counties in northern california's wine producing region. at least 1500 properties have been destroyed. it is not known how the fire started. the us buys president has visited the region.

how the fire started. the us buys president has visited the regionlj wa nt to president has visited the regionlj want to ensure the people of california that our behalf or president trump and the entire administration we will be working very closely with governor brown to see you through these challenging times andi see you through these challenging times and i want to say to the people of california and all of those in the path of these advancing wildfires that we are standing with you and the american people will have the communities affected in our thoughts and prayers. scott's first minister nicola sturgeon will address the final day of her party's conference in glasgow later. the snp leader is expected to say she wants to put scotland in the driving seat with radical policies that will equip the country for the next decade and beyond. she will also fleshed out plans to expand free early learning and childcare. melania trump has issued a sharp rebuke to president trump's first wife after she joked she was the

first lady. in a television interview to promote her new book if an account suggested that as the first donald trump why‘d she was the first donald trump why‘d she was the first lady. a statement by melania trump's spokeswoman put the comets down to attention seeking and self—serving noise. down to attention seeking and self—serving noise. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30. we are going to talk about the exotic animals that end up at children's parties. my children have never been to these parties. thank you for coming on. this is a corn snake? yes, it is. that is being taken to children's birthday parties. we have consulted with the rspca about how to look after them in the studio and how to handle them appropriately. but the rspca and other animal welfare groups around

the country are worried some of these animals are not being treated properly and i being kept in cramped and inappropriate conditions and they are calling for an all—out ban on these mobile zoos. we have got an interesting film coming up at quarter past nine. if your children have been to one of these things, please let us know. in the sport devastation for wales, they will not be in the world cup. it has been a difficult day for the home nations because we had scotland failing to get to another world championship and wales, who wowed as in europe by reaching the semifinals last year, they were sitting in second position. but it was win or bust for both teams last night, they we re bust for both teams last night, they were playing the republic of ireland. in their previous qualified the tannoy system messed up in georgia and they had to sing the anthem a cappella and they repeated that last night. gareth bale is injured. joe allen, they lost one of

their other influential players early on. he was concussed and did not know what was going on. the welsh defence did not have a clue for this either. it was a great winnerfrom james for this either. it was a great winner from james maclean. that was enough for them to leapfrog the welsh and finish second and wales finished third, which means they have no chance of getting to the play—offs or to russia. that is what it meant to some of the fans and the players. what a come—down for them after that glorious summer last year. i feel like i came up short. we have not quite got there. no excuses about who we have got playing or not playing. we are all in the same boat at the end of the day. it has been a hell of an effort, it just has day. it has been a hell of an effort, itjust has not been enough. iam effort, itjust has not been enough. i am gutted we have not made it, absolutely devastated. chris coleman would not be drawn on his future. a big decision for him to make. he had

said about a year ago before this qualifying campaign that he wanted to get back into club football. we will see what the future holds for him. in terms of next month's play—offs, the permutations? not quite there yet because we have got a few matches this evening. some of the teams will be there, the republic of ireland after that win last night, and northern ireland who will be in amongst the four unseeded teams when the draw is made next week for the play—offs. they could face portugal or switzerland. we know one of the teams will be italy, croatia or denmark as well. some really tough matches coming up. this is what martin 0'neill makes of what could lie in store for them. i do not think anybody would want to play us. doi think anybody would want to play us. do i fear teams in there? yes, absolutely, every single one of

them, buti absolutely, every single one of them, but i have always feared teams. that is the best way to be. then we go out and beat them. eight yea rs then we go out and beat them. eight years ago ireland were trying to get into the world cup in south africa, that play—off against the french and thierry henri's handball, they will hope for no controversy like that. who will definitely be there? some teams have already booked their places and england, germany, belgium, spain, poland, serbia, they are the european team is going to russia. remember iceland? they knocked england out of the euros last year. they were the smallest nation to appear at a major tournament with a population of 330 5000. they have done it again. they beat kosovo last night 2—0 in reykjavik, so they top their group and they will be the smallest nation to appear at and they will be the smallest nation to appearata and they will be the smallest nation to appear at a world cup final.

back—to—back major two months. there they were doing their thing. that became the thing last year, the thunderclap, this viking war chant. russia and those teams they face next summer should brace themselves. a fantastic story for iceland. meerkats, snakes, tarantulas — commonly found in zoos, but more frequently making appearances at children's birthday parties and that's alarming, according to the rspca. those kind of animals are provided by "mobile zoos" and this programme has learned that from next year such businesses in england are going to have to operate under new stricter regulations. it comes as the rspca tells us many animals used for parties are being kept in poor, cramped conditions and handled inappropriately. the scottish government is also planning new regulations and the welsh government has just

finished a consultation on the issue too. however, some animal welfare groups want to see an all out ban on mobile zoos because they can be distressing for the animals. 0ur reporter emma ailes has been investigating. it's a growing industry, mobile zoos that bring exotic animals to you. how many people can get cuddles from raccoons? it's amazing, isn't it? this is beryll. a favourite with kids parties. but with concerns about animal welfare and human safety. monkeys being taken to shopping centres and crocodiles being taken to pubs and nightclubs. the government says it's taking action, but will it go far enough and do you really know who is bringing the zoo to you? there are hundreds of mobile zoo

businesses all over the uk and some of them use small animals like rabbits or guinea pigs or stick insects, but there are also some who use large exotic animals and i'm in liverpool to meet a man who does just that. ican hear a man who does just that. i can hear animals. hi. scott, emma. nice to meet you. so, you have a lot of animals. yeah, we've got over 120 animals. they do not all live here, but we have got some that live here so we'll show you some of them. 0k. scott gavin set up his mobile zoo business with his wife

two years ago. he started with one raccoon and now has 120 animals. he takes them to parties and events all over the country. these are royal python from africa. these are fantastic snakes to use in the visits. very placid. you tend to be able to get them around the kids shoulders and geta around the kids shoulders and get a nice photograph. unlike zoos or pet shops there are currently few regulations controlling the type of mobile zoo that scott runs. 0nly that scott runs. only a few species classed as dangerous such as crocidles and cobras require a permit. that's led to concerns from campaigners, scott gavin insists he has always operated ina insists he has always operated in a safe and humane way. he would be one of the first snakes out. basically, we get him out and if there is a brave kid we would pull a pillowcase up and put your hands in here, we are not looking sort of thing and see if we can them to do that. is that safe? it is an i'm a celeb type thing. yeah, yeah. it's total safety, i put my hands in here all the time. always keep your eye on the head when you're out. you have always got to keep your eye

on the heads and just be prepared to put your hands in the way of the bite. lucky enough in two years i've never had a problem other than them pooing and weeing on people. i have been bit on the way to jobs and in between jobs, but i have never been bit on a job. so it has been good. this is an albino burmese python. close to 1a foot. he's probably about four stone in weight. so you have got to support the body. so, would people hold him at events? yeah, people will hold him. the children tend to be more like five or six at one time. he normally does the school visits, the educational side. we ta ke the educational side. we take him out on instead of — he's not the most placid one i've got. although he has never tried to bite, i tend not to take him into crowded areas. so he'll do the educational

side of things where it is more relaxed for him. yeah, there is always a risk working with animals. always a risk. these dragons come from australia. they love to be handled. they love to be handled. they will follow you around the living room. they will sit on your window ledge and sunbathe and sit on the back of the couch. they love fruit, veg and insects, they will eat their own babies. so if they go for things, does that mean they can go for hands and little hands, children's for hands and little hands, child ren's hands? absolutely, yeah. i've rescued a couple, they are not friendly at all, they have had to stay at the unit and display. he won't fly far from me. he won't fly far from me. he will poo. that's why the animals aren't allowed in the house anymore. i thought we were going to get away without you doing that. people will have a go at you, it's a barn owl, surely he is not happy in this situation, but he doesn't know anything other

than that situation. you can't release him. he's a captive bred bird. at events, we normally have the rope around his leg. we ta ke we take perches out and he will stand on a perch you need a10 forms to own them. it isa you need a10 forms to own them. it is a legal document to say it is not a wild animal and it is legally yours and it matches the ring around his leg and stuff like that. you have got to do it properly. is it all right having all the animals here together? yes, it is fine having them together. i couldn't have a snake out and have him in my hands at the same time because that's going to be a disaster. so now we move on to the ones which have sharp teeth! so this is a raccoon dog. they are actually from china and in china they like to skin them alive for the fur. this is a rescue.

i took her in, she was seven weeks old. the kids love her at the visits. absolutely beautiful. so, if you took her to events, children would be able to stroke her? they would, yeah. as she has got a collar on here. we tend to let the kids stroke the back end. we don't let them stroke her face because she will have a little nip. so is that safe? no, there have been no bites or nothing. she goes out with one handler. and he has her all the time so he knows how to deal with her. so he just keeps the kids hands away from her head. we have a risk assessments that we take out and we make them sign and say we are covered with insurance, we have got £10 million liability, sign the risk assessment, but we need to sign it to say we've told you that there is potential bites, scratches, poo, wee, stuff like that. she won't bite you, she's 0k.

scott says he keeps most of his animals ina scott says he keeps most of his animals in a nearby warehouse unit. we asked to see inside, but he said it wasn't possible at the moment because of renovation work he's doing. we also asked to go along to one of his parties, but he said none of his customers would agree to let us film. there are no official figures for the number of mobile zoo businesses in the uk, but some estimates say it is around 200. they can charge more than £150 an hourfor they can charge more than £150 an hour for parties, and some do hundreds of events a month. with next to no regulations currently in place companies have been long free to operate as they see fit. with mobile zoos it is a free—for—all really. anyone and anybody can set these places up. it's extremely easy to get a whole range of exotic animals and then set up range of exotic animals and then set up shop tomorrow. we have had calls about all sorts of things, so, monkeys being taken to shopping centres, and being handed around for

handling. crocodiles being taken to pubs and nightclubs for photo opportunities. we have a lot of concerns about the more exotic mammals that we are seeing, things lycra koon dogs, raccoons, meerkats, they have specific needs. for example, being kept in a group, having lots of enrichment. they are wild animals, they are not used to being handled and just generally animals being kind of stacked up in inappropriate boxes and enclosures and taken to places for display and for handing round and not being handled properly and then being used again and again potentially in the same day for event after event. this is room 1, the animal room. this is room 1, the animal room. this room also already been examined. in 2013, the rspca rescued an frles from —— animals from a mobile zoo. the owner pleaded guilty

to 34 mobile zoo. the owner pleaded guilty to 3a animal offences. but he was able to continue running his zoo. from next year companies will need a licence from their council listing the animals they use: are spca welcomes the move, but says it is worried about enforcement. people see the places advertised online. they likely jit mat and see the places advertised online. they likelyjit mat and it is difficult to read through that. we would like to see licensing so that there is proper inspections, there are standards required that people running the places have to meet and for wild animals we would say they shouldn't be any different to those required in zoos. this is beryll. she is cute. i think she is cute as well. beryll is my one—year—old corn snake. keep your hands nice and flat for me. today is an 11th birthday

party. she is having a visit from sarah who works for a mobile zoo company who only uses small animals. they say they would never use exotic animals. the rules are stay quiet, stay still and wash your hands once you are finished. if i feel like any animal is being mistreated or mishandled, i remove it. i have had parties where the children have been too grabby or too hard and i said, "right, you're not touching the next animal." this is rosie, she is a ta ra ntula. animal." this is rosie, she is a tarantula. this party really wanted a gecko, but it has damaged her eye, so she is unavailable to come out. if they are injured or sick, they do not go. so unfortunately we have run out of time. 0k. not go. so unfortunately we have run out of time. ok. so if i could just

ask you to wash your hands, that would be amazing and thank you very much for listening. there are lots of things that everybody has done for parties and we were looking for something different and my daughter is crazy about animals. ijust came across this company on the internet and thought i would give it a go. how much did you look at the company before you booked and did you think about the animal welfare side at all? did you look at it from that prospective? i did try to find out whether they had any references, but ididn't whether they had any references, but i didn't really think specifically about animal welfare. i assumed they would be reputable because they had a website and looked reputable, but didn't think about it. if there was some endorsement by a respected body like the rspca that would give a lot of comfort of mind. the majority of mobile zoo owners we spoke to including the one sarah works for, support the move towards tighter regulation. 0ne told us stories of pythons being placed in paddling pools with kids and spiders

being encouraged to crawl across kids faces. many hoped stricker laws and spot inspections would shut doubt disreputable companies which they felt tarnished the industry's reputation. scott is showing us his back yard where he keeps his petra koon. she is my pride and joy. how many people can get cuddles with raccoons? he says he supports the idea of more regulation, but defends his use of large, exotic animals, a practise many campaigners would like to see banned. is it ok to put a little rabbit in a hutch, but it is not ok to own a raccoon. i think it's not ok to own a raccoon. i think its people are just being very picky. so what would you say to people who say you shouldn't have the animals in your back garden or shouldn't be keeping them in an enclosure? you get it all the time. people say they should be in the wind. they are captive bred. i

rescued this one. the alternative it was going to get put down if i didn't take it in. it gets cuddles and as much food as it wants. what would people who say you shouldn't ta ke would people who say you shouldn't take them to parties or events or they shouldn't perform in anyway? well, performing, these don't perform. i don't let them perform, but taking them out to events and the educational side of things, the reason i do it is to educate people about them. the environment has to be set properly, no music and no noise, the important thing on the job is the animals, anything after that, the kids. if they cause stress to the animals, the animals go home, we call it a day. the uk government hopes its new licensing scheme will bring an end to the worst of the industry's practises. the welsh and scottish governments are looking at bringing in new laws to control mobile zoos. and until then, campaigners urge pa rents to and until then, campaigners urge parents to think carefully before booking any mobile zoo for their

child's party. if you've used a mobile zoo for your child's party, we would love to hear your expereince. my my doctor enjoys an amazing party with snakes at our home. it was memorable. like a childminder i have to be vetted and pay a fee each year. knowing they were kept properly was important for me and i had to set my house properly to suit the animals which assured me they did care. not offering this event to children would be ashamed. dan says it isa children would be ashamed. dan says it is a disgrace these creatures are used for human pleasure. a nation of

animal lovers? what tosh. anyone who keeps a creature in a cage is no animal lover, just a control freak. we wa nt animal lover, just a control freak. we want to hear from you if your children have been to one of these parties or if you have had them in your home for your own child's party. we have some of these animals. we have some of these animals. as you can see this morning we've got some animals from a mobile zoo in the studio with us — a bearded dragon lizard, a corn snake and a tarantula. we've consulted with the rspca and they've advised on what animals are safe to have in the studio. still to come: how does your race affect your chances in life? the government is publishing a report on how people of all ethnicities are treated in all areas like health and education and we are going to talk and chew the fat with our collected group of people after 9:30 a:m., but

wherever you are, if you have experienced discrimination, let me know what happened to you. also on the programme, anti—abortion protests in west london suburb could be banned after allegations that women who use the abortion clinic are being harassed and interrogated and intimidated. we will get reaction from that. we will get reaction from that. time for the latest news, here's ben. the bbc news headlines: theresa may will release the results of a government audit which will reveal sweeping inequalities between different ethnic groups in areas such as education, housing and health. the findings will show that people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds are twice as likely to be unemployed and that white, working—class students at state schools are less likely to attend university. the communities secretary sajiv javid says the publication of the data will allow

the government to take action where necessary. what this project does on day one by presenting this unprecedented amount of data in a way that is transparent, it allows us to then focus on what might be the cause of some of the discrepancies. in some cases it might bea discrepancies. in some cases it might be a rational, sensible explanation, in other cases it will require change. and every department will focus on it and tackle it. the government is being encouraged to release inmate serving shortjail terms in order to ease the pressure on the prison system. the court is being made by the president of the prison governors association at its annual conference. it comes as a report from the chief inspector of prisons highlights the insanitary, unhygienic and degrading conditions that many inmates are being held them. unions are demanding urgent talks with bae systems following news the is expected to confirm more than

1000 job losses. most of the posts affected will be at two plant in lancashire. an official announcement is due later on this morning. inspectors are warning that the health and care system in england is straining at the seams to cope with unprecedented pressure caused by people living longer, but in poor hell. the care quality commission says its annual report provides the first complete picture of what is happening across the sector from hospitals to gp practices and care holmes. the rspca says it is alarmed by the popularity of exotic animals such as meerkat and snakes making appearances at child ren's meerkat and snakes making appearances at children's parties. the charity is concerned that many animals used at parties by mobile zoos are animals used at parties by mobile zoos are being kept in poor, cramped conditions and are handled inappropriately. from next year stricter regulations on such businesses will be introduced in england, while the scottish and

welsh governments are also looking into the issue. sarah says keeping exotic pets and taking them to parties is heartbreaking to see, they belong in their natural habitat. christina, why use mobile zoos for parties? it seems so wrong. these are the headlines this morning. wales have failed to qualify for next year's world cup. they missed out on a play—off spot to the republic of ireland after losing to them 1—0 last night. iceland have made it back—to—back major championships after qualifying for russia automatically. they will become the smallest nation by population to appear at a world cup after topping their group. syria and australia played the second leg of their world cup match in halfan second leg of their world cup match in half an hour. it is balanced at 1-1. the in half an hour. it is balanced at 1—1. the winner will have to go into the play—offs and meet russia. the barbarians are forming their first

women's side. france and new zealand will play against munster in their first match next month. i will be back after ten. good morning, welcome to the programmer. good morning, welcome to the programmer. when theresa may became prime minister last year one of the first things she did was order a "race audit". it was meant to be the most ambitious of its kind and its purpose was to establish whether people of different racial backgrounds in this country face discrimination. if so, how much and have their lives been affected by it? today its results are being published and it confirms what many people will say has never been in doubt, yes, there are serious racial divides. amongst some of the audit‘s findings are: black caribbean pupils are being permanently excluded from school three times as often as white british pupils. at key stage two, 71% of chinese primary school pupils met the expected standard for reading, writing and maths, compared with 54% of white british pupils and 13% of white gypsy and roma pupils.

white british pupils on free school meals performed the worst at key stage two with 32% reaching the expected level. unemployment among black, asian and other ethnic minorities is almost double that of white british adults. so what does the report tell us about divides across all sectors of society from health and education to employment and the criminaljustice system? we can speak now to a politician — helen grant conservative mp a police officer, a doctor, a teacher, a youth worker, a mental health specialist, and employment specialist, and someone who looks at unconscious bias in the workplace. welcome to all of you.

i want to ask you to start off with four examples from your own life when you have been discriminated against. on many occasions people have thought of me as a nurse or health care assistant thinking the chinese female, it would be inconceivable of me to hold a position of authority. they are surprised to hear i am a real doctor. when i speak to people they often speak to me slower or in broken english thinking i did not speak very good english. broken english thinking i did not speak very good englishlj broken english thinking i did not speak very good english. i have been stopped and searched over 125 times. why? for a variety of things. primarily in the 1970s it meant they did not have to have any suspicion, theyjust pick on people like myself. because you are black? because i was black, it came to court, no evidence, but because of the words of two police officers i

got put into a detention centre. that led to the brixton riots in 1981. it is interesting the response i get as the founder of a human rights group that articulates speaking just as black people face. i give evidence at parliamentary committees. all too often i find people will go to other people and i will be the last person they come to. they are surprised i and the founding director of an organisation, it is inconceivable somebody like me would be doing what lam doing. somebody like me would be doing what i am doing. even from people who are supposed to know better, people on parliamentary committees?” supposed to know better, people on parliamentary committees? i think the people on those committees are mps. i would like to think they do not have this unconscious bias. but thatis not have this unconscious bias. but that is the experience. that is the reality. as a politician i have had that experience as well, even just a few weeks ago. i received an e—mail

with the c word, get back to ghana. it is shocking, notwithstanding the fa ct i it is shocking, notwithstanding the fact i was born in london, i am british, i grew up in carlisle. it is there, racism exists. how prevalent is it? we all know it exists. the stats on the website are not new, we all know it is there. how prevalent is it? in uk society it is covert. it is not necessarily in yourface. it is covert. it is not necessarily in your face. the examples people gave, people's perception, based on your ethnic origin, it is something that will lead to other things happening to you. not recognising that the state as we have within society is equal to our white counterparts, if not greater, and thatis counterparts, if not greater, and that is when we are talking about discussions at higher levels, strategic delivery of this report

for instance. what will the people looked like who will implement the recommendations for this report? it has to come from ethnic experience. asa has to come from ethnic experience. as a teacher, schools are a microcosm of society and we have to educate and provide the best opportunities for our children. however, as a teacher i am faced with children questioning me. why is it that senior management are white? pupils do not say that? especially when we have a debate. you mean the headteacher? and the senior management. they recognised it, they see it. the top jobs go management. they recognised it, they see it. the topjobs go to white people in schools? a woman covers the female category. i have had a 12—year—old student come to me and say, i have been stopped and searched four times and he is only

12. really? in what part of the country? in barking. only 12, a small little boy. this would be a good moment to explain unconscious bias. it will take a couple of seconds. we have got time. bias. it will take a couple of seconds. we have got timem bias. it will take a couple of seconds. we have got time. it is when people make assumptions based on stereotyping. it could be in your favour or it could be something you turn away. for example, a lot of research is done about bias made against names. if you have got an unusual name, the likelihood of you being appointed for a job goes down significantly. if somebody comes in for a job interview and they have an acce nt for a job interview and they have an accent from africa or asia, they are treated differently than if they have an accent from france or germany. they are treated worse. much worse. also the comments along the lines of what you were saying, does he speak english? i cannot

understand his accent, although the next candidate might have an italian accent. those comments are not made. the third one is around appearance. if you are seen to be different. in an interview if somebody comes in from a black or ethnic minority background, the white panel will ta ke background, the white panel will take a step back and sit further away than if it is a white candidate. do we think there is more of that, the unconscious bias, the covert racism as you describe, more of that than the over stuff which helen has experience?” of that than the over stuff which helen has experience? i think so, it depends on how you define covert. people do not cause or call people names any more, although it does happen. in everyday life they can have big is that you in the way you cannot quite put your finger on. you are never sure entirely what the reason for the bad treatment is. sometimes it is obvious. give me an

example. when i was a student at law school i was sitting in the cafe and wearing my best black suit, might only black suit at the time, because i was going out to dine that evening because we had to dine. this white, middle—aged barrister came in and said, what time do you open thinking i must be the waitress? it should have been obvious i was a student. but he thought she is black, she must be staff. i have no proof of that. what did you say? i did not say anything i just said, that. what did you say? i did not say anything ijust said, i do not work here. another time soon after i started practice i was with another black barrister and there was a white counsel with us and he said something about under the woodpile. i stared at my colleague and he stared at me and neither of us said anything. is this guy making a joke? these things go around in your head.

why has the present why didn't you say it is unacceptable? this was 1992, and! say it is unacceptable? this was 1992, and i was so stunned, i was young, i was just stunned. 1992, and i was so stunned, i was young, iwasjust stunned. i'm required to apologise for the fact that the n word appeared on the programme but we understand the context. it isn't just programme but we understand the context. it isn'tjust a matter that it is covert and overt above and below. part of the problem is many people don't even think it exists. it is invisible to them. i will be joining from andy. i want to or to react to this. i'm sick about hearing about racism. there are plenty of people working from all backgrounds. i am unemployed and i hardly see non—white people signing on. these stop beating on about it. it is going on too far. helen says teaching the truth about black history and the contribution of black people is key to tackling

racism. it can be fixed via the education system, racism. just respond to what andy had to say. andy's point antic lates —— articulate a strong feeling among some people in this country but we have to remember that the un committee on race equality reviewed the uk in 2016 and they raised a number of concerns about the inequalities and this is just like the human rights body, and the uk is on the human rights council said this isn't just on the human rights council said this isn'tjust as saying, 0k, on the human rights council said this isn'tjust as saying, ok, this is our experience, we talking about international human rights committees. i don't think that would matter to andy, he's sick of hearing about it. he might be sick about hearing about it but there are consequences to this injustice. what are the consequences of such discrimination? after 40 years of the abuse of stop and search coming many young people have been scarred

by their experience and once they are scarred, they don't feel part of that community. if you don't feel pa rt of that community. if you don't feel part of that community, it is us and them that is driving file and is driving filers on the street. we talk about over it and covert, it is racism. so, them and us, one consequence. what other consequences? what andy is saying also goes on in organisations because there is this banner of this is political correctness gone mad, i can to political correctness anymore. within organisations, yeah, i don't know the statistics about unemployed young black and minority ethnic young people but in terms of career ethnic young people but in terms of career progression, there are real limitations for black and minority ethnic staff members. which means we are not utilising everybody‘s talents. the consequences from a police officer's point of view? talents. the consequences from a police officer's point of view?“ we dealt with the problem from the amount of reports and

recommendations there have been over the years, you wouldn't hear about it. it is because it hasn't been dealt with that it continues to be getting worse, because it is spreading notjust in policing but in society. is it spreading? i think it is, absolutely. in my everyday work, i see patients from ethnic minorities not getting as good quality health care as they can. they have difficulty accessing health care because of language barriers. it is difficult to understand ethnic minority patients are difficult to reach out to from health care point of view but they actually find it difficult to access the health care. they sometimes don't understand how the nhs works and sometimes it causes them a lot of problems. is it the responsibility of people like andy and others watching right now who pay taxes to use some of that money to pay for a translator? absolutely

or support local established services to target these populations. it is a difficult one because, in many respects, i think the problem might be getting worse. i think it has been fuelled by the immigration debate, which is so divisive. personally, ithink immigration debate, which is so divisive. personally, i think the referendum did a lot of damage, when xenophobia and racism were rebranded and sold as populism, as if it was acceptable. not one party or the other, all parties. including from your own party. a lot of different people said things that to me were utterly u na cce pta ble people said things that to me were utterly unacceptable but it set a standard and the media, too, they sometimes fan the flames and the language that was used wasn't helpful. so we've got to get hold of this which is the reason the prime minister commissioned this report to find out where the problems are and act. waking to talk about what actions should be taken in a moment. this is a tweet. the 11—year—old son

was called the capital end word at school. how common is it? how common do you hear those racial insults? sexism and racism is an issue at school. also the teachers because we are not trained so weak learn as we go. 0ne are not trained so weak learn as we go. one issue i must mention about this report is that we've seen many reports over the decade, from runnymede trust, phil wallace, reports over the decade, from runnymede trust, philwallace, name it. what is key here is that poverty affects the bme community. the bme take—home money has reduced, not increased. if we see, as a result, racism and sexism increasing, we shouldn't be surprised because the government's policy is directly affecting these families on the ground. and we have to face up to the ground that there is institutional racism. and to face up to it is the first step. if we look

at the media representation of bme representation ofjournalists, i've got some figures here. cerebral 4% of muslim journalists, but we represent 5%. 3% of the population are from the back and african community butter is your .2% are journalists. we talked about cuts poverty an issue. do you accept that? do you accept what she is saying? i think it is more compensated than that. is it part of it? to answer the question it is more complicated than that. different groups are affected by different policies. yes, there are problems and i do think often more needs to be done. i'd like to see more targeted universalism, more data collection... what is universalism was blue when you have

very good universal schemes but you target them towards people that need them most and i think we could do that. it doesn't take a lot more money. give me one example of a good scheme that could be targeted? the nhs have a very good scheme where if you are of a certain age you can have yourself checked out the various illnesses but we know from the health research that has been done that people from bme backgrounds often have specifically more serious diseases or certain diseases like liver disease. therefore it should be targeted possibly under that scheme to those people that would benefit. before we move people that would benefit. before we m ove o nto people that would benefit. before we move onto recommendations, let me put this to you. former deputy mayor of london has said the statistics that will be on this website from this afternoon can be misused to minorities as victims of racism, of fuelling victimhood. what do you say to that? the data is helpful but, as

many people have said, it isn't new. what we really need to see at this point and the deputy mayor's point is valid but it is what it is. what we need to see some sort of action because one the most disturbing things about institutional racism is the way it affects life chances and for people from the uk's african caribbean communities, it manifests in ways that are disturbing like levels of state balance and coercion, people being subject to harm, subject to teys are more often, subject to coercion more often, subject to coercion more often, subject to things that reduced life expectancy. let's talk about action. what action would you like to see taken as a result of what theresa may strike to do? we are seeing legislation being introduced on the mental health act but what we'd like to see is a ban on the use of tasar firearms and

hospitals. on the ground, as a youth worker, we had 100 young people playing football on the football field and to be fair, it is a 3—.5 million youth centre that has been closed and young people have no access to it. what should be done is that we need the community to add and, to help those young people because they've got a specific couple in my area around postcode violence. to see these young people from different postcodes coming together, we need to step in and support them. facilities and schemes like that. we are looking for action. absolutely, the talk and audits have been done, we have seen them all. i think this resource needs to be seen as the beginning of something rather than the end but we do need action. personally i'd like to see the government implementing many of the proposals that came out

of the mcgregor smith report. give our audience one example. she pinpointed the fact there was to spare at the between the number of bme people in employment and the numberof bme people in employment and the number of british people. so let's get some transparency in here, we need more data. 0n race recruitment, retention, promotion and pay. so transparency can be very strong. i ee, transparency can be very strong. i agree, knowledge and data is very useful and in health care terms these can actually target the area that needs it most for example charities that are local and already established, which have a range of projects, like dementia support group, but using relatable cultural cues group, but using relatable cultural cues to help patients. are you agreed that publishing that kind of stuff actually embarrasses companies, large or small and forces them into action? in tiny 15, the then home secretary, theresa may

came came to the black police association conference and within her address to it, she said there we re her address to it, she said there were four forces in her address to it, she said there were fourforces in england and wales that didn't have any black or that british officers. that was translated to means that those forces didn't have any bme so there has to be an element of ownership about how people see us because, actually, what she was saying is there was no black or black british which is different asian which is different polish, which is different. within the bme umbrella, we are all labelled in that way which doesn't achieve the objective because it needs to be more targeted. a couple more suggestions? from an organisation point of view, it needs to be top—down, it needs to be on the agenda, then ease to be an ordered within organisations, and action. i agree. organisations need to look and see what they can do themselves. nationally there is a problem but an nhs trust or school,

each one has to look at what the issue is in their school because it issue is in their school because it is all these individual instances that make up the global picture. the government needs to takes the lead definitely. there's lots of things they can do and they will do but they can do and they will do but they can't do them on their own because many of the problems we've talked about are to do with society and society changing and expecting. but you need to ensure you have good representation from the society that allows for greater diversity. i'm going to ask you to call time on it. thank you so much. that is a long time in tv terms, thank you very much. really appreciate it. really appreciate the opportunity. your views are welcome, of course. and your own experiences, if you have experienced discrimination, do let me now and we will feed it into the conversation. still to come, 35 children are permanently excluded

from schools in england every day. that is an astonishing increase of over one third so why the rise and what is to be done? that is just after 10:30am. the latest news and sport in a moment. before that, the weather. good morning. pretty great start to tuesday morning across the uk, some images to the song captured just outside neath in the past few hours. but there is some sunshine out there. this was the scene in storm away and more of you will see the sunshine compared with yesterday. it includes the sky sandwiched in between and what is heading in later on. there will be a fairamount of heading in later on. there will be a fair amount of cloud at times but better chance of it breaking up. showers across northern england, the midlands and wales and some in the south and east later on but by the end of the afternoon after some morning sunshine in scotland, it turns much cloudier. critically in the west, the southern highlands, outbreaks of rain turning persistent

with the winds strengthening, with gales across the evening across lewis and harris. caddick never in northern ireland, any sunshine and the hazy side with spots of rain, too. 0ther the hazy side with spots of rain, too. other than in the odd area, not many showers about. always a bit more cloud around in english channel threatening the odd spot of drizzle but there is a lot of brightness. tonight, turning thoroughly wet across western scotland, and by the end of the night, parts of north—west england and wales strong to go force winds, coming in from the south—westerly direction keeping temperatures up in double figures. with those winds coming in from the mid atlantic they hold a lot of moisture combined with the fact it isjoined along with moisture combined with the fact it is joined along with this front, strong winds with the hills in the west seem large rainfall as we go through tonight and into wednesday. la ke through tonight and into wednesday. lake district is one of the wettest spots. we could see 100 millimetres

of rain on wednesday, enough to cause minor flooding and of rain on wednesday, enough to cause minorflooding and it of rain on wednesday, enough to cause minor flooding and it starts the day on a wet note. also parts of wales and scotland getting the rain. some showers thundery in the north. sunshine later on after the wet morning in the north of england. 0utbreaks morning in the north of england. outbreaks of rain extending into the midlands, much of wales and the south. there will be some sunshine in the south—east corner but the odd shower can be ruled out. and it is tomorrow evening we will see the wet windy weather pushing through. that the parts, some showers wednesday night into thursday and thursday will be chilly with a touch of frost in rural areas will be chilly with a touch of frost in ruralareas and will be chilly with a touch of frost in rural areas and the wrasse and ca rs in rural areas and the wrasse and cars but most of you have a nice day on thursday with rain in the highlands and islands but mostly a day of sunny spells and it will feel pleasa nt day of sunny spells and it will feel pleasant and the sunshine, too. temperatures 13—17 on thursday.

hello, it's tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. many young people have been scarred by their experience, they do not feel part of that community. coming up: anti—abortion protest outside a west london clinic could be banned after allegations that women are being harassed and intimidated. we will get reaction and hear from those involved in the process. plus mobile zoos are becoming more popular. animal welfare activists say they should be banned and say

the animals get stressed. she has got a collar on her. she will have a little nip in and then. we will be speaking to mobile zoo owners and animal welfare groups in a moment and if you have hired a mobile zoo for a children's party, get in touch. news just newsjust in, bae news just in, bae systems have announced 375 jobs are news just in, bae systems have announced 375jobs are going, mostly in portsmouth and the isle of wight in the maritime services division. bae in the maritime services division. ba e syste ms in the maritime services division. bae systems are laying off 375 people. it says it is part of the restructuring exercise aimed at driving down costs and increasing efficiency. they add the jobs they hope will go through voluntary redundancy, but there will be compulsory redundancies as well to maintain the correct skills mix if necessary. as you know, bae

employees, just over 2500 people at portsmouth, 242 on the power of white, 375jobs going in the maritime services division. —— the isle of white. here's ben in the bbc newsroom with a summary of todays news. theresa may will release the results of a government audit which will reveal sweeping inequalities between different ethnic groups in areas such as education, housing and health. the findings will show that people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds are twice as likely to be unemployed and that white working—class students at state schools are less likely to attend university. matilda mclachlan, a director of black mental health uk welcomed the order, but says the test is what is done about the findings. we need to see some sort of action because one of the most disturbing things about

institutional racism is the way it affects life chances and for people from the uk's african and caribbean communities it manifests in ways that are disturbing, light levels of coercion and state violence. people are subject to harm, they are subject to things like taser more often, subject to things like coercion more often. they are subject to things that reduced life expectancy. the government's being encouraged to release inmates serving short jail terms to ease the pressure on the prison system in england and wales. the call‘s being made by the president of the prison governors' association at its annual conference today. it comes as a report from the chief inspector of prisons highlights what it says are the "insanitary, unhygienic and degrading" conditions that many inmates are being held the rspca says it's alarmed by the growing popularity of exotic animals such as meerkats and snakes making appearances at children's parties. the charity is concerned that many animals used for parties by so—called mobile zoos are being kept in poor, cramped conditions and

handled inappropriately. from next year, stricter regulations on such businesses will be introduced in england, while the scottish and welsh governments are also looking into the issue. victoria will be discussing this story in more detail in the next half hour. inspectors are warning that the health and care system in england is "straining at the seams" to cope with unprecedented pressure caused by people living longer but in poorer health. the regulator, the care quality commission, says its annual report provides the first complete picture of what is happening across the sector, from hospitals to gp practices and care homes. wildfires in the us state of california have killed at least 10 people and forced about 20—thousand from their homes. a state of emergency has been declared in three counties in northern california's wine—producing region. at least 1,500 properties have been destroyed.

it is not yet known how the fires started on sunday night. the us vice—president has visited the region. i want to assure the people of california on behalf or president trump that we will be working very closely with governor brown and with california to see you through these challenging times. i want to say to the people of california and all of those who are in the path of these advancing wildfires that we are with you and we are standing with you and the american people will have the communities that are affected in our thoughts and prayers. more from me at half past ten. more news from bae systems, an announcement about more job cuts. they are planning to cut almost 2000 jobs in its military, maritime and intelligence services in moves to

streamline its businesses and have a sharper competitive edge. the proposed redundancies are 750 in lecture, 400 in east yorkshire, 245 at raf marham and raf leeming, 240 in portsmouth and solent and in london and guildford 150 in portsmouth and solent and in london and guildford150 and in various other locations 30. 2000 people will lose theirjobs from bae systems, according to the chief executive charles would burn who gave this statement. bae systems is a world leader in technology and engineering and our diverse portfolio provides a strong platform for future growth. the organisational changes accelerate our evolution to a more streamlined, delay an organisation with a sharper competitive edge and reviewed focus on technology. these actions will further strengthen our company as we deliver our strategy in a changing environment. that will not be

consolation to the 2000 people losing theirjobs. let's bring you the spot. the wales manager chris coleman is perhaps thinking about his own job, but he says it is far too early in the wake of their world cup exit, failing to qualify for russia. that is after their defeat to the republic of ireland last night and the republic have reached the play—offs instead of wales. the night started with the a capella welsh anthem in a packed stadium. gareth bale starred in the euros last year, but he was injured. wales also lostjoe allen to concussion in the first half, that did not help. the republic won the match by a single goal, james maclean's strike seeing them leapfrog the welsh into second in their group, taking that play—off spot. but for the welsh after the highs of last summer, the

players and the fans were absolutely distraught at the full—time whistle. i feel like i have distraught at the full—time whistle. ifeel like i have come up distraught at the full—time whistle. i feel like i have come up short, distraught at the full—time whistle. ifeel like i have come up short, we have not quite got there. no excuses about who we have got playing or who we have not had playing. we are all in the same boat, but it has not been enough. it has been a hell of an effort, it has not been enough. i am absolutely gutted, absolutely devastated. the republic of ireland and northern ireland will be two of the four unseeded teams win the play—off draws are made next week. still some qualifiers to be played in europe tonight. ireland could face portugal, switzerland, italy, croatia or denmark. i do not think anyone would want to play us, do i feared teams in there? absolutely, every single one of them. but i have a lwa ys every single one of them. but i have always feared teams, it is the best way to be. then we go out and beat them. those play-offs will be next

month. england, germany, belgium, spain, poland and serbia have qualified automatically. and so to have this team. remember iceland who knocked england out of the euros last year? by population in the smallest nation to appear at a major tournament. they topped their world cup qualifying group so i straight through to the start in russia. russia should brace themselves for that thunderclap chance that became a thing last summer. that was the tea m a thing last summer. that was the team and the fans in reykjavik after they beat kosovo to top their group last night. the barbarians are forming their first women's team. the world—famous invitational club have featured the greatest rugby union players from the men's game down the years, but they say this will help take the women's game to a different level. players from the home nations as

well as france and new zealand will play against munster in their first match next month. the first of many they say. that is all for now. i will be back with the headlines in the next half an hour. good morning, welcome to our programme. good morning, welcome to our programme. a council in london is considering legal action against anti—abortion protesters accused of "harassing" women attending a clinic. ealing council will decide whether to pursue a public space protection order — known as a pspo — to prevent disruption at a marie stopes clinic where daily vigils are held by anti—abortion campaigners carrying what's been described as "deliberately disturbing images". if the order is granted, it would be the first time it's been used in a situation involving an abortion clinic. 0ur reporter anna collinson has been to the clinic in west london. this is a leafy london street and just along here is the maori stokes

abortion clinic. 0utside our people wanting to stop people from using its services. some days there can be dozens its services. some days there can be d oze ns of its services. some days there can be dozens of people there. when we went there were two. 0n dozens of people there. when we went there were two. on a daily basis we see them being addressed on the way in and out of the clinic and people saying, you should not have murdered your child. we have seen women being physically stopped from entering and one woman was found in tears across the road because she had been told it was not the clinic and she had missed the appointment. we grew up just down the road and when my sister came past two years ago, she could not believe the vigil was still happening. she organised a counter demonstration and put an ad in the local paper and the local response was overwhelming. so many people said, finally somebody is doing something, how we can get

involved? we asked this man why he was here. it sounds like you are not helping mothers. it sounds like your actions are upsetting women who come here to use a service that they are legally entitled to use. is there anything you can say to that? like i said previously, iam not anything you can say to that? like i said previously, i am not here to do an interview. he offered as a leaflet but became distracted when he heard the sound of patients leaving the clinic. we spoke to one woman who had used these services. she did not want to be interviewed on camera, but told us another woman had cried after she was approached like this. she said their presence made herfeel like this. she said their presence made her feel intimidated and uncomfortable. i think everybody has a right to do what they need to do and even in my personal experience i grew up in a family that had troubles and if someone really

thinks i cannot do this, i am not ready for this, financially and morally, then who am i to say, no you cannot do this? i do not think anyone can really. there may be some who would argue they are encouraging debate and giving women a chance to think is this what i want? would you agree? we believe if you want to set up agree? we believe if you want to set upa agree? we believe if you want to set up a service to help women, fine. but set up a vetted service and they do not need to be outside the door harassing women as the access because of a decision they have already made. let's speak now to anna veglio—white who is the founder of sister supporter, which a pro—choice group which started the petition for the order to move protestors on. clare mccullough, founding trustee of the good counsel network, which holds daily vigils outside the clinic. the good counsel network is an organisation affiliated to the us anti—abortion movement. welcome all of you. clare, you

regularly visit the clinic to speak to women going in. i occasionally attend the clinic. can i say, the good counsel network isn't affiliated to the american pro—life movement, that is news to me. i think it is important because hundreds of women approach us to have been offered a leaflet on the doorsteps of the clinic, women that are illegal immigrants that have no access to benefits in the country, we see many women under pressure from other people. so long as those women continue to claim the offer we give them and tell us that the abortion providers have no such help to offer them, we will continue. what is the problem with that? the people she's talking about is a minority. we've never seen one

positive interaction between a service user and a pavement councillor. what is the definition ofa councillor. what is the definition of a positive interaction? a smile, and engagement in conversation, not tears and please leave me alone, walking off and being followed, that isa walking off and being followed, that is a negative interaction. ialso think the issue of undocumented people is a separate issue. and the good counsel network and not campaigning for better health services. 95% of women don't regret their potion. —— their abortion. 95% of women don't regret their potion. —— theirabortion. their presence there is trying to put fear into them by giving them the information they are giving. we are not trying to put fear into them. i wa nted not trying to put fear into them. i wanted to bring on some of the women that have been helped by the organisation and i was refuser help, i was told these women are not releva nt to i was told these women are not relevant to the debate. my understanding is what you said to us is if you don't interview this person that i am suggesting to you,

then i'm going to shame you're on social media. i said nothing of the sort. i said we've ten women available to speak to you, and i said if you refuse to speak to them, we will make it known to social media these women's voices weren't included in the debate because every journalist we asked to speak to them says the same thing. we are not a campaigning organisation but we provide health care for women who don't get it through the state. we are fighting all the time for individuals who are not getting health care, housing. officials should be providing that health care. you claim you have health care medication —— information in your leaflets. you're giving the information out to people using the clinic and offering some help but you give the misleading information. you can go to our website and see we back up everything we say. sorry to interrupt, your medical expertise, your qualifications? i've never

claimed to have any medical expertise and neither do any of our people on the street claim to have medical expertise at i'd like to know why the voices of 100 women and more we've helped outside the evening of debauchery that were not getting help inside are not valid to this debate? 23 years you've been and you're saying 100 women. six months we've been gathering evidence, we've had hundreds of women writing with testimonies saying the only thing that was upsetting or traumatising was a stranger placed at the gates. they had no choice but to walk past them, calling them mother, asking them if the father knew they were doing the baby that day. that was the only upsetting thing in that day. that isn't what our counsellors do. we don't go around asking about the father of the baby. can i just don't go around asking about the father of the baby. can ijust read out my blog? i am speaking at the moment. you can make lots of unsubstantiated accusations. pro—life groups are live facebook

streaming women going into abortion clinics, it was to hold —— said, but nobody has produced the evidence. clinics, it was to hold —— said, but nobody has produced the evidencem isjust absurd. nobody has produced the evidencem is just absurd. i actually have evidence. we have a log about what women have said what happened. they've been shouted at, don't do it while they've been waiting. they've been rapped on the arm to stop them from entering, sing your not allowed in. awoman from entering, sing your not allowed in. a woman was called a murderer. a teenage girl was told she would be haunted by her baby if she had the procedure. we also have an image of about five people standing right by the gate with signs saying abortion, one dead, one wounded, give your baby at present, a birthday. this is harassment because the definition of harassment because the definition of harassment is intention to cause distress. i don't see how the images and language at anything else other than to cause distress to women because your group doesn't agree

with abortion and that is what this is about, trying to remove the option of a termination from these women. our groups don't stand outside the clinic doing these things. i have photographic evidence. there are five different groups outside evening. and the clinic has two video cameras focused on the door all the time. where is the evidence of this? you saying i see this and the clinic says that isn't evidence. so, the clinic have made up what they've said chris you know anyone can take evidence of what we are doing. and we have, which is why we have these videos. we've never had any outrage to say why are you doing this. the council have reached out to you. yes, they've spoken to us once. let's bring in the councillor. let talk about this protection order. what

have residents been saying to you about what is happening outside the clinic and have you witnessed anything yourself? i'm pleased you're asking about the residents because i've had lots and lots of letters and e—mails from residents we re letters and e—mails from residents were absolutely concerned about what is going on on their doorstep. what do they say? they say they feel harassed and intimidated by the protesters. they don't want to see that on their doorstep. many of them are families, there is a park nearby, many children use the park, they have to walk past the graphic images displayed, and parents than have to talk to their children about abortion. every parent has the right to discuss that subject with their child as and when they think it is appropriate, not when they are forced to. so, it is blighting their lives every single day. and not only is it affecting the residents at i've also been to the clinic, i've

spoken to the staff there. they are finding it very difficult to get in and out of the clinic to do what is and out of the clinic to do what is a job for them. why are they finding it difficult? they are finding it distressing and when the prayers and hymns are being this song outside they can hear it. nobody is stopping them from exercising their right of freedom of speech but i think the question is should it be happening right outside the clinic? from the good counsel network's point of view, that is absolutely worth the prayers should be sung.” view, that is absolutely worth the prayers should be sung. i then disagree because you can take that discussion elsewhere. i think what is happening outside the clinic is the women are being harassed. when i say harassed, i'm not talking about the legal definition but every single day when they're walking up and down. my residents shouldn't have to choose a different route to get into their homes. they shouldn't have to choose a different route to get to the park. were going to be

debating this with fellow councillors this evening, whether to bring in for the first time, if you do bring it in, this public space protection order. if it was brought m, protection order. if it was brought in, if the vote goes years, what does it mean in practical terms? tonight, we are actually debating a motion which will... which will be looking at the possibility of taking some action. to take out such an order is not an easy task. we have to consult with all the stakeholders. that is the residents in the borough, people at the clinic, the protesters, and we've been talking to them already, and we have to liaise with the police and bad so it is a long process and we have to make sure we actually do that properly. tonight is a commitment to doing something about the situation which is untenable for the situation which is untenable for the future. those people that change

their mind also need to be liaised with. thank you all. still to come: prison governors are calling for an end to short prison sentences of under 12 months calling them "pointless". we'll hear from them later and really keen to hear from you. if you've been to jail for less than 12 months, tell us your experience. has it worked? did it deter you from committing another crime? was at a waste of time? would your community have been better served if you'd been given a community sentence? let's return to our conversation about exotic animals like these which are growing in popularity at children's parties where mobile zoos bring meerkats, boa constrictors, racoon dogs and even monkeys to parties for children to pet. at the moment there's no mandatory regulations for companies who run these kind of businesses and no regular inspections to check they're looking after their animals properly. animal welfare groups say too often animals are kept in poor conditions and end up being distressed by poor handling from keepers and children. but this programme has learned that

from next year new regulations will be introduced in england which means they'll have to register with their local councils. similar plans have been announced by the scottish government and the welsh government has just concluded a consultation on whether to do the same in wales. but some want to see an all out ban on mobile zoos. 0ur reporter emma ailes has been investigating. we brought you herfull investigation earlier here's a short extract. is it a boy or a girl? this is beryl. it's a growing industry, mobile zoos that bring exotic animals to you. they are a popular choice for kids parties and visits to care homes. estimates suggest there are around 200 mobile zoos in the uk. some use small animals like guinea pigs or stick insects. others use large exotic species. scott set up his mobile zoo with his wife leanne two years ago. he started with one raccoon and now has 120 animals. these are pythons from africa. you tend to be able to get them

round kids shoulders and get a nice photograph. these dragons come from australia. they love to be handled. follow you around the living room. this is an albino. he is probably four stone in weight. would people hold him? yes, people will hold him. children tend to be more like five or six at one time. and then we move on to the ones with sharp teeth. this is a raccoon dog. she was about seven weeks old. when i got her. if you take her to events children could stroke her? they would be. we don't let them near the face. she will have a little nip now men. is it safe? never been no bites. we have risk assessments and we make them sign and they we are covered with insurance and liability. unlike zoos in pet shops there are apparently few regulations controlling mobile zoos. following concerns about animal welfare and human safety the government is now updating the law. soon companies in england will need a licence from their local council, listing all the animals they use.

the rspca welcomes the move but says it is concerned about enforcement and if the measures go far enough. currently with mobile zoos it is a free—for—all. anyone and anybody can set these places up. it is extremely easy to get a whole range of exotic animals and then set up shop tomorrow. we have had calls about all kinds of things. monkeys being taken to shopping centres and handed round, crocodiles being ta ken to pubs and nightclubs. and just generally animals being stacked up in inappropriate boxes and enclosures and taken to places for display and for handing around. this is room one, the animal room... in 2013, the rspca rescued 17 animals from a mobile zoo that was keeping them in cramped in filthy conditions. the owner, stephen rowlands, pleaded guilty to 34 animal welfare offences but he was able to continue running his business. this is rosie, guys.

rosie is a chilean tarantula. many mobile zoos we use a small animals and animals and pride themselves on their animal welfare standards. they support the move towards tighter regulation, hoping it will shut out more disreputable companies. she's my pride and joy, aren't you, girl? not many people can get cuddles from raccoons. amazing, isn't it? scott supports the idea of regulation. but defends use of small animals is a practice many people want banned. it is ok to put a rabbit in a hatch but not ok to own a raccoon? you can't have a hedgehog. i think people are just been very picky on things. in england the new rules will take effect next year. the welsh and scottish governments are also looking at bringing in new laws. until then campaigners are urging parents to think carefully before booking any mobile zoo for their child's party. joshua jameson has been running the mobile zoo company wild science

for the last three years. isaac mcmahon is an animal education presenter at wild science and he's brought some of their animals with him today. we've taken advice from the rspca today to ensure that the animals who are here today are kept and looked after appropriately. simon airey has been running a mobile zoo in shrewsbury for over 30 years and gilly mendes ferreira is from the animal welfare charity the scottish spca. welcome, all of you. who have we got here? we have got delilah, a bearded dragon. she is from australia. they live about ten years normally, can live about ten years normally, can live up to 15, depending on how well they are cared for. and you would ta ke they are cared for. and you would take her to a children's birthday party? yes. what would you do? i would let them stroke her as long as they are gentle and careful with

their hands. i would let a few of them hold her. iwould have their hands. i would let a few of them hold her. i would have to make sure they were comfortable with holding her and they were not noisy as well. eisenach, are you happy to get the tarantula out and the name of the snake? toffee. toffee, of course. joshua, tell me how these animals are kept when they are not at parties? what sort of conditions? the key to their well—being is to do everything on a small—scale, so all the staff keep them at home as pets and they will live in a pet environment, safe, secure, dry, vermin free, and they get close human contact through handling or toys. they also monitor their health well. they get vetted very care were necessary as well. the most important part is the relationship between the animal and the handler.

it is key to the animal's well—being that they have a profound level of trust with the person looking after them. it creates a mutual understanding between the two which is important for the demonstrations. we have the same person looking after them at home, taking them out and transporting them as well. what animal do you looked after at home asa animal do you looked after at home as a pet? all of these are looked after by me at my house. do you have others? yes. how many? quite a lot, ifi others? yes. how many? quite a lot, if i was to guess about 12. all the reptiles are kept in a room that is warmed up because they need warmer temperatures. the mammals are kept separately in other rooms. it is noodling. why is it all right for the kids to be handling toffee? because she is very docile. she

likes to come out and say hello. she is very smooth, it is nice for kids to have different textures on the animals, nice to see a snake that is different and it will challenge their fears. different and it will challenge theirfears. a lot different and it will challenge their fears. a lot of children have fears of snakes and it is good to show them that snakes are not how they think they are, how they are portrayed in the media. let me bring in chile from the scottish spca. hello. should mobile zoos be banned? i think at the moment we need to have a full consultation. to be fair to those who run the zoos, there is very limited research in this area on the positive negatives of not just have it accept people and the effect on the animals as well. there needs to be a full consultation which incorporates a lot of research behind that as well. you are not saying an all—out ban. what about

stricter regulations? the scottish government is planning on bringing in stricter regulations. westminster —based government has said from next year such mobiles are businesses in england will have to apply for a special licence, will that be useful? yes, that will be useful. at the moment we are unaware of how many mobile zoos are operating in scotland. we have contact with them when something goes wrong. injune the case of a large number of animals being kept in a one—bedroom flat in edinburgh, including venomous snakes flat in edinburgh, including venomous snakes and scorpions. that person did not have that licensing. some were classed and dangerous animals licensing. having a licensing scheme in place would be very important. as you say, you have already spoken about enforcement, and it is making sure that these licensing inspections are carried

out. how would you respond to having to apply to a special licence which brings with it potentially enforcement, other regulations and so on? i think it is a very good thing. i have been doing it for32 years. i started doing it people we re years. i started doing it people were happy with stick insects, small animals, they were exotic. unfortunately some people use bigger, zoo type animals and there should be some benchmark, some standard, to regulate this industry to make sure everybody is doing it correctly. ok, but anyone can set up asa correctly. ok, but anyone can set up as a mobile zoo, can't they? they can indeed. the only time you would need a licence is if an animal is in danger or dangerous. otherwise, all you need is a devious check and public liability insurance and anyone can set this up which will always be a danger. 32 years ago i

was the second person in shropshire and now there are 200 people nationally. there should be some legislation which maintains standards. what is the danger? are you talking about danger to the animals or the children at parties or what? if it is done correctly, there is no danger to children or there is no danger to children or the animals. if it is done incorrectly, there is the potential for animals to be kept in insufficiently large or correct environments, as we have seen in the past. they need specific environments and it is easy to provide that. unless someone is checking your premises on an annual basis, why would you need to comply? how would you know whether the ta ra ntula how would you know whether the tarantula here was in distress if she was being held by a child?m tarantula here was in distress if she was being held by a child? it is down to the handler. they know them

best. they will move a lot more, they are a bit more frantic. as you see now, she is very calm and sitting very still. she is quite relaxed, she is not distress. tarantulas show a lot of behavioural science and it is easy to pick up on them if you know what you are looking for. we spent a lot of time with these animals and working with them and it is easy to tell with their behaviour how they are feeling about things. let me read the messages. ellery says exotic animals belong in the wild and being used at children's parties is bull. maybe thatis children's parties is bull. maybe that is going a bit far, but it is the sort of animals you use. yes, it is right, using meerkats, they do not travel well. tarantula is still classed as an exotic animal. as you

can see, it is happy. to be honest i have no idea and neither would a mother or father at have no idea and neither would a mother orfather at a have no idea and neither would a mother or father at a party. like we saw in your video, they assume there is some regulation in place and assume everything is above board. but quite frankly it is not. this text says, i cannot believe what i am watching, it seems cruel and wrong, there should be an outright ban and an animal should be in its natural environment. there are plenty of things you can do at a children's party. it teaches children that transporting wild animals is acceptable. when it comes to transportation, they are in small containers, they have to be. it is secure. notjust because it is secure, it is because you can fit more into the back of the van. yes, that is part of it, but we brought these today and they

will not travel in these, they have to go into their travel cases. calling for an outright ban is going too far. humans have been working with animals for thousands of years. but it does need regulation to make sure all the animals are cared for. all right, thank you all very much, thank you for coming on the programme, eyes and joshua, and simon who has been running his business for 30 years. and thank you tojulie from business for 30 years. and thank you to julie from the scottish business for 30 years. and thank you tojulie from the scottish spca. more on the breaking news from bae systems about job more on the breaking news from bae systems aboutjob cuts. they are planning to cut 2000 jobs in the military, maritime and intelligence services. let's talk to our business reporter in salford. this is absolutely devastating for those who will lose theirjobs. what is the reason the company is giving? yes, it is devastating for people right

across the country. a big part of thejob across the country. a big part of the job cuts across the country. a big part of thejob cuts are across the country. a big part of the job cuts are focused in lancashire. in terms of reasoning, bae talk about streamlining the business. effectively they are matching up their work output to the amount of orders that they have on their books. because orders particularly for the typhoon jets, and the hawk jets particularly for the typhoon jets, and the hawkjets they mention in this press release, effectively orders for those have gone down in the last couple of years. their workload over the coming years is slowing dramatically and bae systems simply cannot afford to keep production lines running at the rate that they are with the amount of stuff they have at the moment when they do not have the orders on their books to justify that. they were hoping to get much bigger sales in the middle east. they are still waiting for a contract from saudi arabia to come through, but it has not been signed on the dotted line yet. qatar has promised to buy some

jets last month, but at the moment it is only an intention to buy those typhoon jets. it is only an intention to buy those typhoonjets. until it is only an intention to buy those typhoon jets. until that comes through, the business is insecure, particularly in the air division where we are seeing the biggest amount of cuts. 1400 jobs are being cut from that division, 375 in maritime and others in the intelligence sector. it is spread across the uk, but particularly focused in lancashire in the air division. thank you very much. let me bring you this breaking news. former detainees in a charity have won a former detainees in a charity have wona high former detainees in a charity have won a high court challenge against the government over a policy change on torture which said it led to asylu m on torture which said it led to asylum seekers fleeing persecution being wrongly detained in uk immigration centres. former detainees in a charity have won a high court challenge against the government over a policy change on torture which is said to have led to asylu m torture which is said to have led to asylum seekers fleeing persecution

being wrongly detained in immigration centres in the uk. 35 children are permanently excluded from schools in england every day, that's an increase of over a third over the last three years. over the last three years to 6,685 children annually. it's thought each excluded child costs the taxpayer over £370,000 in the long term. the left—wing think tank, the institute for public policy research, is warning that the most vulnerable children, such as those who have mental health needs or are from the poorest homes are the youngsters that are most likely to be excluded. and this morning's government race audit says black caribbean pupils are being permanently excluded from school three times as often as white british pupils. so, why has there been such a rise in exclusions? let's talk now to zainab eletu—odibo, she was excluded from school when she was 14 and now teaches children who are excluded, dave whittaker who runs three

schools in yorkshire who teach vulnerable children, many of whom have been permanently excluded, and kiran gill the founder of a new project called the difference which aims to train teachers in dealing with vulnerable children. zainab, you were expelled aged 14 and didn't go to school for a year, what did that do to you as a young girl? it was quite dreadful because you feel like you are an outsider out of society. you are not going to school, you are not working, you have no purpose, so you are at home doing nothing with yourself, feeling like it is the end of your life. you we re like it is the end of your life. you were sitting at home board every single day? literally with no resources , single day? literally with no resources, no laptops to do anything, they did not provide anything. the reasons you were excluded? due to bad behaviour. did your parents go to the school and

say this is absurd, you have to let her back in and help her? you cannot have a 14—year—old sitting at home for a year. yes, but because i had been expelled from them, it is lambeth‘s job to do that. they had nothing to do with it. as soon as they expel you from the school you are the government's responsibility and they have to take care of you and they have to take care of you and if they do not do that, it is down to the parent. you are now a teacher. when you look back at the way you behaved then, would you have excluded yourself? no. what would you have done? had loads of conversations. the conversations i have with my students, what is it at home? what is it personally? we have stu d e nts home? what is it personally? we have students going through bereavements. how do you expect them to be ready for gcses if they are going through death? somebody in his family has died. he needs time to recoverfrom

that. as adults we need to go to counselling and speak to other people to get over it and learn how to deal with it and come to work the next day. a child has to get this to get thejob, but next day. a child has to get this to get the job, but now they are panicking and it is coming out in bad behaviour because they do not wa nt to bad behaviour because they do not want to express emotions. how do you do with those things? you have to talk to them? why do you think there has been such a rise? there is has six accountability in schools at the moment. essentially, the pressures of ofsted, the pressure from dfe around results, the changes to the systems over a number of years. so it is easier to get rid of a slightly challenging pupils they don't have to be included in the data? there is no incentive to for them to be included. what about the human incentive? i care about this kid that is why i'm here.”

genuinely feel sorry for had teachers under that pressure. well, make the right call! they need the job, need to pay the mortgage which means the high—stakes pressure on mainstream head teachers means the easiest thing to do with these children is move them onto someone else. wouldn't it be easier to hire someone else, which would cost a lot less tha n someone else, which would cost a lot less than excluding that child, to deal with those type of children? you have early unit to deal with those children and he wouldn't have to exclude them. £370,000 every child. you are the founder of an organisation that aims to take existing teachers and trains them, kira, to teach in schools like dave's. why? so, zainab's story isn't unique, and 35 students every

day are excluded. the research i was the author found the problem is even bigger than those statistics have us realise. one in 200 students across the country are being educated in a school for excluded students are lots of students in the situation and it is a range of different factors. it is high—stakes accountability, things going on at home and research finds lots of students with complex things going on at home, which might be bereavement but there's also an increasing number of students with mental health problems. social media exacerbates those problems. we talked about peer abuse yesterday on your show. there is a lot schools have to deal with in terms of the complex home lives. the sector needs to evolve and upscale itself to cope with those challenges. and then if they do that, there would be fewer exclusions? yes, you need head teachers who say, hang on a minute,

we need to prioritise these students, but not just we need to prioritise these students, but notjust with we need to prioritise these students, but not just with the resolve to put the vulnerable students at the heart of the school but also with the skills and resource. we don't know what works with vulnerable students at the moment and the majority of them go to prison so it is imperative we work out what works and create leaders with that knowledge to change things. thank you all of you, thank you for talking to us. we will talk about prison next because you'll know they are fulton bursting and short prison sentences are pointless because they don't work. that's the verdict of the prison governors association which want to see an end to sentences of less than 12 months to ease pressure on the prison system in england and wales. the ministry ofjustice says it's modernising prisons and recruiting more staff. at the moment, our prisons are full to bursting. and when prisons are so full, the ability to rehabilitate

people are compromised and that is our greatest worry. this, coupled with the instability that we are seeing in our prisons, the more men and women you put into prisons doesn't help to stabilise them. so, you're sending messages to magistrates and judges not to hand—out prison sentences of 12 months or less, is that right? yes, because they don't work. people who are serving 12 months will only spend six months in prison. so these short sentences, they come into prison, the best we can do with them is if they are drug users, we can stabilise them, and then we can deal with health issues, and then we released them. there's short periods in prison, they may be away from theirfamilies, they in prison, they may be away from their families, they may lose accommodation, they may lose jobs so what we end up doing is making their lives worse, not better and we certainly don't rehabilitate them. if prisons were less crowded, would

you be able to rehabilitate prisoners and those shorter sentences? if they were less crowded, we would be able to keep people probably closer to home, probably in local prisons, said part of rehabilitation and part of reducing the offending is keeping family links. but i still don't think it is sufficient. i think community sentences are the way forward , community sentences are the way forward, if people are on drugs then we should be able to get them into drug rehabilitation in the community as well. if it is someone with no health or addiction issues and they've committed a crime, then doesn't what you're proposing send a signal out that we are letting them off? i don't agree with that, repression can be done in different ways and often you can put people in prison for short sentences and increase their criminality. they are around people who may well get them into drugs they well be released

into drugs they well be released into organised crime groups. so i don't think it is the place for people to be for short periods and if you only get a six—month sentence, they are only in prison for three months, a matter of weeks. i think reparation can be done in other ways. give us one example. by going into the community and doing things in the community. like what? you can do community service. there are you can do community service. there a re lots of you can do community service. there are lots of things you can do. we need to be more innovative. it's expensive to put people in prison for short sentences and it doesn't work. do you think victims of crime and to magistrates and judges to be more innovative and hand out more community sentences?” more innovative and hand out more community sentences? i know it is very difficult if you are a victim ofa crime, very difficult if you are a victim of a crime, you'll want to see people put in prison and i understand that. what i'm trying to say today is it doesn't work so if it doesn't work what's the point? we have to do something else that will

change people's offending behaviour. it might work for the victim, though, to hear the person who has perpetrated a crime against them is in prison for three months. we need to ask victims, then, maybe they can come up with ideas. have you asked victims? no, i haven't asked victims, no. vicki cardwell is from the revolving doors charity which seeks to prevent prisoners re—offending and ending up back behind bars. and also 27—year—old leah mcintire got in touch with us after watching the programme, he served in 11 months sentence for blackmail. let me start with you. was thatjail sentence enough to deter you from emitting another offence? no, it wasn't, it didn't deter me from anything, it was more like a holiday camp. there was no education, no training provided, ispent

camp. there was no education, no training provided, i spent the whole of the 11 months watching tv, drinking cups of tea, and doing nothing for the whole sentence. but you don't want it to happen again so presumably won't commit another crime again, will you? that's correct. so, it was a deterrent but not rehabilitation? it is not rehabilitation, it doesn't rehabilitate people. obviously, you're going to tell me you'd have preferred a community sentence because you wouldn't have been bought for 11 months but could you have done something useful in your community for the crime you committed? anything would've been more useful than doing nothing, especially the way the world is going. there is plenty of opportunities for me to do voluntary work than sit around and do nothing. that doesn't help the or myself. everybody is at a loss. let me bring in vicki cardwell. liam isn't going to do it again because it was so boring. that in itself isn't supposedly what prisoners for but it

is enough to deter him so it has worked. it has worked for liam in this sense but we know 60% of people who survey short prison sentence go on to reoffend. that is the statistics i am not happy with or society is happy with but community sentences are more effective. you get the opportunity to do something like make amends, repair the get the opportunity to do something like make amends, repairthe harm that has been caused and get access to drug and alcohol treatment programmes, mental health programmes which are not happening in prisons. which is something the prison governor association is pointing out. what is the reoffending rate for community services? 3196 but if you match like—for—like offenders with similar backgrounds with similar offences, it is statistically 7% lower. so, for exactly the same offenders for the same offences, community sentences

we re same offences, community sentences were better. if you go to prison for a short period, you disrupt your family life, you disrupt ties with your family, you lose your house, if your family, you lose your house, if you had a job, you've lost it, too, so it creates more chaos. there are people shouting at the tv don't commit the crime. we talk to victims and what they tell us is the main thing they want is for that not to happen again. that is one of their big concerns. so, i guess what we are saying is, yes, the person needs to repairthe harm are saying is, yes, the person needs to repair the harm and serve a penalty but let us make it the most effective one possible. mark says, i spent five months of a ten month sentence in two prisons in 2016. my offence was breach of a court order, no violence or similar was involved. i spent two months in a state prison, no glass window, people urinating in food, i was confined with the known violent prisoner with 45 previous offences who assaulted

me by throwing a large wooden table in my face before threatening to break my legs while throttling me. prison serves a purpose, confining the very dangerous or forcing people to do rehab courses. it achieved nothing for me and i can't get a job, insurance or mortgage, my children are bullied at school and failing at school thanks to the exaggerated press coverage of my case. gareth says, after leaving care, ifound case. gareth says, after leaving care, i found myself case. gareth says, after leaving care, ifound myself in case. gareth says, after leaving care, i found myself in a case. gareth says, after leaving care, ifound myself in a b&b without any life skills, i was sent to prison for eight weeks. i was released and literally put straight backin released and literally put straight back in for six months. i ended up in and out ofjailfor back in for six months. i ended up in and out ofjail for the years, mainly short sentences which were an inconvenience. it is difficult to rehabilitate or learn a trade. all prison sentences under 12 months should be stopped. and more emphasis on learning trades in prison or gcses. what you think of those ideas, liam? the courses are there and available but to get onto them,

there isn't the staff. i did a course one day with a gentleman about rehabilitation, about bank accounts, and stuff like that. there was one officer on the wing and probably 100 prisoners, and two prisoners were having a go at this old gentleman doing the course. and the god couldn't do anything. he stood there and did know what to do. he didn't have the back—up to do anything because he was extremely overwhelmed. and that isn't an isolated case. we hear that from lots of prisons. staff shortages... the government say we are spending £1 billion and prison officers so that'll help. there are long-term issues here. prison staff have been cut. the most effective thing we can do is take out prisoners were non—violent offenders, they are not a dangerto non—violent offenders, they are not a danger to someone, who conserve their sentence

a danger to someone, who conserve theirsentence in a danger to someone, who conserve their sentence in the community, which gives people the headroom to deal with these issues and to allow people that liam is talking about, to get on those long—term courses. thank you both. on the programme tomorrow we look at the impact of miscarriages on dads. thank you very much for watching today. we are back tomorrow at 9am, have a good day. a little bit more in the wake a little bit more in the wake of a little bit more in the wake of sunshine today. turning increasingly cloudy. brightening up as we move through this afternoon with some sunny spells and feeling pleasant in that sunshine with highs of 18, perhaps 19. this evening and overnight that rain will shift its weight used with and will be heavy at times. by the south and east, it will be drier with clear spells and temperatures staying largely" there is. some heavy rain first thing

tomorrow and it will be quite blustery as well with that rain. we could see some heavy rain for and lancashire and the far north of wales. behind it some sunny spells and thundery showers. a bit more cloud in the south and east. this is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11. the defence company bae systems is planning to cut almost 2,000 jobs, many in lancashire. sweeping inequalities between different ethnic groups in areas such as education and housing are revealed by a government audit.

i presenting this amount of data in a focused and transparent way. at least ten people die in wildfires sweeping the wine areas of northern california.