shinzo abe said his imminent task would be to "deal firmly" with north korea, which would require "strong diplomacy". the world health organisation has reversed its decision to appoint the zimbabwean president, robert mugabe, as a goodwill ambassador — following an international outcry. and this story is trending. divers have been leaping before before a stunning waterfall. competitors have been performing acrobatics from heights of up to 27 metres in chile. more on that story at bbc.com. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtop, i am stephen

sackur, my guest today is one of the biggest selling fiction writers of all time. dan brown. his 2003 novel the da vinci code sparked outrage in the vatican, he's just published another epic tale, this time about man's quest for the origins of life. is there still a public appetite for dan brown's high—fibre blockbusters? dan brown, welcome to hardtop. usually the phrase which follows your name is best author but in

reviews of your latest novel, 0rigin, the new phrase for you, and novelist of ideas. i like that. i have heard many things but i like that. i would did it and thought i had not heard about it but it is sort of what you are about.” had not heard about it but it is sort of what you are about. i love to write about the grey area between right and wrong, big ethical questions, will god survive science is what i tackled in 0rigin. questions, will god survive science is what i tackled in origin. in some ways it would seem hard to package that into a genre that maybe you don't like this word but people would regard as thriller.|j don't like this word but people would regard as thriller. i love the word. i write books i want to read. thrillers are fun to read but i'll select a learned so what i try to do and it's an intentional thing is create a book which is fun to read but that you also learn something

along the way. watchword boards and entertainment are learning? they go hand—in—hand, they had to be intertwined or else the style does not work. it either reads like a travel journal or a not work. it either reads like a traveljournal or a empty not work. it either reads like a travel journal or a empty thriller andi travel journal or a empty thriller and i want to create something that tastes like ice cream but you're getting vegetables. laughter most kids would say that their mum and dad forced them to eat too many vegetables. do you ever think you are putting too much into it, you are putting too much into it, you arejust are putting too much into it, you are just trying to be too didactic, making it too dense? all the time and that is where editing comes in. for every page in 0rigin i wrote there were ten which fell to the floor. let's think of the substance the balance, when it comes to human beings trying to explain where we have come from and what life is, the balance between religious explanation and the scientific explanation. you are struggling with

this central idea that maybe science has replaced god. historically science has. if you look at the agents they had a whole pantheon of gods to explain everything they did not understand from rising tides to love. when the tides would rise it used to be per side and then science came along and said it was more to do with the moon and gravity and poseidon fell. are we naive enough to think history will not repeat itself? that the gods of today will survive? historically they will not. i right thinking this is personal? your background is interesting in that your family life involved a mother who was quite religious. involved with her church. and the father who was a rationalist maths teacher. i grew up with one foot in each world. i was very comfortable

in this existence up until i was about nine years old, i learned about nine years old, i learned about adam and eve de angelis is and i went to the boston museum of science and found out about evolution. i went to my priest and said which story is true? this man said which story is true? this man said nice boys don't ask that question and that was the moment from the that i realised i was going to be asking a lot of questions. from the that i realised i was going to be asking a lot of questionsm that the moment you say to yourself now, that that began yourjourney away from religion? absolutely. i moved toward the solid foundations of science. i found the further i went in science the mushy legrand started to get in terms of concrete science. his becomes metaphysics, numbers become imaginary, it makes and burya numbers become imaginary, it makes and bury a circle into philosophy. are you anti—religious? and bury a circle into philosophy. are you anti-religious? no, it does a lot of good in the world. that

moment with the priest, he made you feel uncomfortable, he said nice boys don't ask that question, surely the extension of that is that religion became something that made you feel uncomfortable? that is absolutely true, what i became uncomfortable with is not religion but the banner of religion being waved as some kind of immunity from having to endure rational scrutiny. don't tell me i cannot ask a question, religion is not doing any favours to the young people today by seeing to participate you need to turn off the rational part of your brain. i willjust add the story of adam and eve i can now read as a beautiful morale detail, as a fable, an important part of understanding where we came from. but it's amazing to me than in year 2017 we in my country have congressmen who will stand up and say the earth is 6000 yea rs stand up and say the earth is 6000 years old. that the fossil record

was put there to test our faith. this is where the danger lies. it's inevitable that people when they listen to this conversation we are having our mindful that you are dan brown of the da vinci code, a period after you wrote it in 2003 when the catholic church in particular piled onto you, accusing you of egregious falsehoods, of undermining the key te na nts of falsehoods, of undermining the key tenants of the faith in a way they said was purely falls. has that encouraged you to want to take on religion more? perhaps, it's interesting, this was sent me but when the da vinci code came out i had no idea it was going to be so controversial. i was asking a hypothetical question. for those who have not read it of whom are not many, let's remind them, you posited, a complex story that other

ha rd posited, a complex story that other hard that the notion that there was and isa hard that the notion that there was and is a conspiracy at heart of christianity to hide the true story ofjesus christ. christianity to hide the true story of jesus christ. that he was a mortal prophet not literally the son of god. yes, a hypothetical... and you didn't realise it was going to be controversial? because it's a thriller. if your faith be controversial? because it's a thriller. if yourfaith is be controversial? because it's a thriller. if your faith is shaken to the court by a thriller you have to look at your faith. the reason the book was so controversial i guess is the only word is that because for a lot of people the story i told made more rational sense than the story they heard on sunday school and certainly for me the story i told makes more logical sense. that is what was so dangerous. it sold hundreds of millions of copies in the end and that it's been translated all around the world but one of the problems those defending the christian story had with the

book was they felt chielewski and fa ct book was they felt chielewski and fact and fiction in a way which was com pletely fact and fiction in a way which was completely unreasonable and led many breeders to be deeply confused about where the lines between fact and fiction wearer. that's what i do, i do something intentional with these books which is blend that line. what i true to do is take real documents, real art and history and interweave fictional characters discussing them and they have their own ideas and they debate these topics. guessed that your altars voices telling us, i think, correct me if you think i am wrong, telling us that you believe in certain things like this secretive movements, the priory of sion in france which in the book becomes a movement that is trying to deliver into power descendants of jesus christ in a secretive way. the feeling one gets is that you believe

that was true. and i personally do believe it's true, i spent a long time researching this book. but you know it has been thoroughly debunked. any time you read a book, if you read about challenging religion, the premise of the book is that his today as we know it is it is not like it is of course historians will say it is not accurate. but this is so germane to the times we live in today, you are suggesting is what is true and what is not is not always truly decipherable, if ever. but it's beyond doubt is it not that this idea of the secretive priory of sion was a hoax developed by a french bloke in the 1950s, the research is in and it was a hoax and you may be hoaxed by it but was it not time for you to say you got it wrong? i'm talking about my beliefs of the

story ofjesus christ. how i tell the story, it's a creative art, i can take some of what i want from history, some of its real and some of it not, i do not know enough about the priory of sion to savour a bag that is true or a hoax, i have no idea. at the time i wrote the book i believed it was true. has yourideas book i believed it was true. has your ideas and further research change your mind in any way? gonna that hasn't, i have moved on from that hasn't, i have moved on from that story and left it behind. that hasn't, i have moved on from that story and left it behindm that hasn't, i have moved on from that story and left it behind. it is important, iam not that story and left it behind. it is important, i am not trying to convince anyone of an idea, i am trying to write an enjoyable book which gets people talking. if people decide to believe the story then great, if they decide to say it's just a thriller and crazy talk that is fine too. it's just intended to get people thinking about why they believe what they believe. the idea fa ke believe what they believe. the idea fake news now is absolutely germane to the conversation, how do you know what is true and what is false? but

do you or do you not believe there is truth that in falsehoods and we as human beings has a duty to differentiate? i believe we do as historians. as creative novelists we have the duty to get people to go and ask questions about their own sources. that brings me back the latest work, 0rigin. at its heart is this figure who is perhaps an hour just to some of the great kick gurus of ourtime, just to some of the great kick gurus of our time, elon musk or whoever, he believes he has unlocked the secret to how life began. the essence of what we are. in the end, ifiam essence of what we are. in the end, if i am reading the book correctly your conclusion seems to be there is a truly scientific explanation for

life, it is out there, somebody has got the secret. so science wins in your view. it is funny, every religion has a creation story that involves a supernatural power of some sort. to basically say what if life just happens, that is enormous implications for religion. if we don't need god, if we do not need a creator... don't need god, if we do not need a creator. . . that don't need god, if we do not need a creator... that is what i am driving at and that is why i lead you through this question, what do you believe, are you able to tell me what you believe about for example where life began? sure, coming through the process of writing this book and talking to physicists and microbiologists and reading about what is happening right now literally in the last two years, i personally believe the laws of physics are enough to create life. there is no god? i said i did not

see that. if you ask me what i specifically believe, i no longer believe in the god of my childhood, idt sending his son dying to be crucified for my sins. but if i lie out under a starlit sky i feel there is something a lot bigger than us. i don't know what it is, i don't have a word for it. i would not presume to try to describe it. it's hard to ta ke to try to describe it. it's hard to take that step into atheism. i am moving in that direction but for me in my life it is still hard to say there is nothing. is it partly hard because you live in a society in the united states where it is quite difficult to be a public figure who says i am an atheist? you are right but it's getting easier to step out and say you know what. .. but it's getting easier to step out and say you know what... is it, in america today? ok, today we have

some strange things going on in america, i considered writing the trump code but it was too unbelievable even for me. it's easy to smile but perhaps also easy to be alarmed, are you? of course i am. 0ne alarmed, are you? of course i am. one of the challenges with that religion is reading metaphor as fa ct, religion is reading metaphor as fact, that's one of the big dangers of religion, to take metaphors like the story of adam and eve and see it as fact, not only can you not ridicule it and we will debate if we will teach you to children and that is where it a problem. other aspects of the public debate where people increasingly have questions about expert opinion and its validity, climate change for example. at the top of the government are people deeply sceptical about what appears to be the consensus science on climate change. do you see that as a

trend which could take us human beings into dangerous place?|j trend which could take us human beings into dangerous place? i do and it has less to do with science and it has less to do with science and more to do with politics. i think if the politics favoured global warming taking place them global warming taking place them global warming taking place them global warming would be taking place. i entirely believe global warming isa place. i entirely believe global warming is a major issue for all of humanity and it's astonishing to me that it remains, that there are questions at the upper levels of government, it is amazing to me. another theme in this book and i suspect something you are personally interested in is artificial intelligence. in some ways you appear to be close to believing the next phase of evolution will involve human beings somehow transforming with the help of machines.” human beings somehow transforming with the help of machines. i am not

close to believing it, i believe it. explained. if you look at how we live now, we carry little computers, they will be part of us, they already are, we cannot function without our little machines. hearing aids will be implanted. scientists disagree if this is good bad, some believe the power of artificial intelligence will save us and solve global issues of scarcity and overpopulation. 0thers believe it will kill us, that we as a species have never created a weapon, are never created a technology we have not weaponised. fire, cooked food but went on and burned down in neighbouring villages, nuclear power turned into weapons. we would be naive to think there will not be a dark side to artificial intelligence but i am an optimist and tend to think there is more love than hate in the world and we will learn how to use artificial intelligence

brigade. rodney asked about how you write, because you unlike some extraordinary successful thriller writers do not churn out novel after novel after novel. we know of some writers who almost have writing factories where they have assistance to help them with plotlines and to develop the novel and then the master craftsman comes and policies it up, you're not like that at all. i have looked at the record, 4—6 yea rs i have looked at the record, 4—6 years pause between the release of the next epic tale. there is no pause, iam the next epic tale. there is no pause, i am working the whole time. to research 0rigin took about a year and a half, read everything i could about artificial intelligence, criticism, modern art, enough to go to these locations and have intelligent conversations, i excused myself to the point i knew what to

ask. these books are intricate and i wa nt to ask. these books are intricate and i want to make sure they are done right and it takes me forever. i'm a slow writer, i do not get it right the first time. i write scenes from many points of view to figure out how the scene is affecting each character. it's a pretty lonely life. it is, it's funny, we were joking that i is ben four years all in the dark and then suddenly you are out in public, a in—your—face seen are out in public, a in—your—face seen be fascinating. this is your moment in the daylight! exactly! but inafunny moment in the daylight! exactly! but in a funny sort of way that makes you public property and a public figure but somebody who is hardly ever around. don't you ever have, evenin ever around. don't you ever have, even in this conversation you have said fascinating things about science and your concerns and your own country about your concerns about where humanity is taking itself and yet three years on end you are entirely silent. that is

true i am putting all that into a novel to share with the world. i find it's the only way i can write because i don't like being influenced enormously by having to formulate my ideas in public before they are formed. writing these books is how i figure out what i believe. iam not is how i figure out what i believe. i am not assuming anything about your politics but given what we see in american politics today don't you ever feel like playing perhaps in american politics today don't you everfeel like playing perhaps a more prominent role in being a public voice, maybe some sort of conscience, using a platform to talk openly about what you see in front of you? i feel like i do that through these books. they reach an enormous portion of the population. i don't like to presume i have the a nswe i’s. i don't like to presume i have the answers. i liked our people raise the questions under five created even dinner time conversation is about important topics i've done our job. to get people to start venting.

the real danger is when we just sort of think we believe something without really asking ourselves why we believe it. the second, for many of us, the second we ask why do i believe this we have to start to quantify and codify and articulate what it is you believe and you realise you do not believe it at all. that's a process which is most gratifying. do you have a lot of strong core beliefs yourself?” gratifying. do you have a lot of strong core beliefs yourself? i do. i try to be fair and argue both sides of the question and the one thing which was fun about writing 0rigin is it felt like land had thrown off the shackles of bit and through the character of edmund was able to say we are in a dangerous time into revolution and religion is bling a dangerous role. the positive role also about the dangerous role and the idea of having to shut down rational thought in order to be

religious is extremely dangerous and i was able to come out and articulate that. interesting that you are so articulate that. interesting that you are so fascinated by the role of religion and can see its dangers yet you are always, one has to say in the books from da vinci code to 0rigin, you focus on christianity. why are you not, given the way the world works today and some of the other dangers we see arising out of some forms of religious belief why are you not addressing other religions? this book does address, islam, judaism and christianity share the gospel and there are characters from all faiths.” share the gospel and there are characters from all faiths. ijust wonder if you led the same critical eye that you have led to christianity to islam for example, if you are fearful, mindful of what has happened to other writers like salman rushdie. it's not occurred because it's not something i would do, christianity, iwrite because it's not something i would do, christianity, i write these books to ask myself these questions and christianity is my experience.

it's the world that affect me most because it's how i grew up. these are my core values. i write these books in many ways for myself, to explore these ideas. that's why i continually choose christianity. you just mentioned robert blanton and how he is cutting loose, would it be right to say that professor roberts langdon with his travel and code breaking and of thing else is the quy breaking and of thing else is the guy you'd love to be? that is the best way to say it, he's the man i wish i could be, he is more daring and intelligent. somebody oncejoked that how could he be more intelligent because he says everything you think. but then i pointed out when he says something off the top of his head about a painting, it took me three days to

research that. how long can langdon go on? he has tough luck and ends up in some pretty bad situation so i don't know! if! in some pretty bad situation so i don't know! if i was him i might go home for a while. i think langdon need a vacation and he might take one. you're now so well known for the series, could you see yourself as, still a young writer, just going into a different genre, writing something left field, that your sta ble something left field, that your stable audience would be completely be surprised by. i have some ideas i cannot possibly put out but sure. be surprised by. i have some ideas i cannot possibly put out but surem is just between you, me and millions of years. i have some ideas for a book which would shock everyone, it's so far outside the realm of what i am known for. but it would be a lot of fun to write. fiction?

nonfiction. you will come back when... i will, hopefully in nonfiction. you will come back when... iwill, hopefully in a nonfiction. you will come back when... i will, hopefully in a room as spectacular as this. dan brown we have to end it there but thank you very much for being on hardtalk. after a weekend of being battered by brian you will be relieved to see what remains of that is now in the north sea and looking innocuous. another big low to the west in the atla ntic another big low to the west in the atlantic will be driving the weather for the week. nothing like the strong winds we've had in the last week but whether france are away which is what we have first thing today, grey and gloomy prospect with outbreaks of rain in the west. clearer skies in the east, chilly start first thing but the cloud will start first thing but the cloud will start to move in and the breeze

pick—up and that will lift the temperatures. quite a grey beginning, scotland and northern ireland, the brightness following on, cloudy to get the day under way across wales, the midlands and the south—west. quite a bit of cloud but a dryfor south—west. quite a bit of cloud but a dry for east anglia and the south east but the rain will move through pretty quickly. marquee across the hills a lot of low cloud first thing. northern ireland brightens nicely through the morning and by the time you get the afternoon there will be brighter skies sweeping across scotland into northern england, wales and the midlands. southern and eastern counties could be stuck with more persistent cloud through the second half of the day but it should be mild of the 17 degrees, good deal more mild than it was to finish the weekend. 0vernight monday into tuesday, the pressure swirling away, more fronts coming our way choose the daytime, cloud and rainfor our way choose the daytime, cloud and rain for england and wales,

heavy rain for wales in the north—west of england for a time, brightest on tuesday, northern scotla nd brightest on tuesday, northern scotland albeit with a few showers, to the south drier weather, but look at the temperatures in london. mild airto the at the temperatures in london. mild air to the south of this waving front, trying to battle its way north through the middle part of the week, the north always clearer and brighter but also cooler. so this one aircoming brighter but also cooler. so this one air coming from the south could move temperatures up into the loop low 20s in the brightness before the week is out. wednesday looks like the front will set early southwards, good portion of of the uk bright. pushing further north, gloomy weather on thursday but bear in mind mild weather as well. few breaks in the cloud could send temperatures up into the high teens or the low 20s. that is the outlook for the week ahead, still changeable, rain around but considerably lighter winds and we just but considerably lighter winds and wejust had. some but considerably lighter winds and we just had. some warmer weather to

come as well. welcome to newsday. the headlines. a resounding victory for shinzo abe asa a resounding victory for shinzo abe as a japanese prime minister declares victory in the snap election. time to leave iraq. the us secretary of state tells foreign fighters battling islamic state to return home. also... acid has stripped the oceans, rising c02 levels could affect all see why. tensions remain high over the korean peninsula, we speak to south koreans trying to live a normal life.