now on bbc news, it's time for dateline london. hello and welcome to dateline london. i'm jane hill. this week, we discuss an extraordinary few days in spain, what's next for catalonia? and in china, is president xi jinping preparing to rule well beyond the usual 10 year term? and what could that mean for all of us? my guests, celia maza de pablo, from la razon, stephanie baker from bloomberg news, thomas kielingerfrom die welt, and the ceo of china dialogue, isabel hilton. welcome to you all. so, what an extraordinary period we are witnessing in spain.

the catalonan parliament voted to declare independence on friday, prompting the government in madrid to strip the region of its powers, remove the catalan leader, and fire senior police. fresh elections have been scheduled for december. demonstrations for and against independence went on into the night, with doubtless more to come. celia, what is your reading? what on earth happens next? this is completely an unprecedented situation. on one hand, we have a region of spain declaring unilateral independence and we have a central government that for the first time in spanish history is going to apply article 155 in order to take control of the catalan government and to hold an election

on the 21st of december. let me start explaining because i think it's important to the way the catalan parliament approved yesterday this declaration of independence. half of the chamber was empty and the members of the separatist parties voted secretly, because they know they could face charges of up to 30 years in prison. so, right now, they don't have the consensus of the social catalonia, the support of the international community, they don't have the control of the territory, they don't have the control of the economy. all the key factors that we have seen over the years with other independents processes over the world, they are not present in the catalan process. but having said that, as you asked, what happens next? what does madrid do? we know what they say

they are going to do, sacking the police chiefs already, factors like that, but the risks are very high here, everybody watching will remember the violence that transpired on october one. we have to see how the separatist parties are going to represent this next catalan election because it's important to see first of all what is going to be the legal situation of the leaders of the separatist parties by the 21st of december? the spanish prosecutor said that on monday, they will file shares of rebellion against the leaders of these parties. so, maybe there is a possibility to see these people in prison by the 21st of december. we have to see if the separatist parties are going to boycott this election, we have to see if the separatist parties are going to introduce this election as the first election of the republic of catalonia. obviously, this is going to be a very important election

but as you say, before this election, we have almost two months ahead, when the central government is going to take control of the catalan government and take control of the police. obviously, this is going to escalate the tension because there are some protests already organised for the days ahead, and some members of the catalan government say already that some civil servants are going to follow the rules of the central government. we have to see if the mossos squad, the catalan police will keep neutral. we will have a very intense and interesting days ahead. it's an intense period and we have to remember not everybody in that region wants to separate. exactly. we talk about the 90% in the illegal

referendum as madrid sees it in october, that was only on a 43% turnout. business leaders are worried about this, they do not want this. remember, spain is coming out of a deep economic crisis and severe austerity measures. that has partly led to what we see today, catalonia is spain's wealthiest region, accounting for about a fifth of the spanish economy. it was demanding a better fiscal deal in the wake of this severe austerity and it may have been a miscalculation by mariano rajoy, as the economy has recovered and is doing better now, that the forces for separation would weaken. but thatjust hasn't happened, you still have shockingly high unemployment. spain wide as well as in catalonia.

and i think ironically now, what you have is more than 1000 companies moving their headquarters out of catalonia to other regions, and that means that tax receipts to the region will decline, and the key plank for the catalonian separatist movement was we are wealthy enough to go on our own, it has been weak and severely because businesses are decamping. that's the real question going on, no one will recognise catalonia. they don't seem to have a plan, no one have spoken about a currency to catalonia, so i think whatever happens on december 21, whoever wins, i think instability will remain and that will be a damper on the economy. i think you made a good point because it's true that more than 1000 companies moved their headquarters from catalonia to other places in spain. and of course, the economic

consequences on catalonia are going to be consequences for the whole of spain. thank you very much for reminding that no, the vast majority of the catalonian people support independence. because in the last catalan election, it shows the separatist parties had 48% of the vote and in the illegal referendum on the 1st of october, the turnout was just the 48%. but bearing in mind it was an illegal referendum, we have to take these numbers with a pinch of salt. and i think it's going to be very interesting if the silent majority that a lot of people say in catalunya, we are going to see finally the silent majority voting in this catalan emergency election. if rajoy is so confident the majority in catalonia don't want independence, then he should put it to the test and the argument is over. this goes back decades, in 1991,

catalans demanded autonomy, primo de rivera said no, calling local elections and got an overwhelming majority given again until 1979. however, the immediate crisis is resolved, this is not going to go away because it has profound roots, also in the question of whether the spanish constitution functions for everybody. and it raises the question of what is the law for and who does the states belong to? if it belongs to the machinery of state, then you're constantly going to have these disaffected communities that are seeking a way to legitimise themselves. and does the state belong to the people or not? if so, how do you test it? that's the situation. thomas, thoughts about the rest of the eu as well, as stephanie

pointed out, very quick to come out and defend spanish unity. obviously for the purposes of maintaining spanish unity, you have to redefine what the constitution means. if catalonia thinks they have a bad deal out of being called autonomous since 1979, you have to discuss this. what is also difficult to understand for me in this independence drive, if economic grievances are one of the main reasons for their protest, they are going to make it more difficult for themselves as a result of the unilateral declaration of independence. it's not going to be a bed of roses, on the contrary. their own situation will deteriorate dramatically and obviously rajoy is banking, thinking about the 21st of december vote, that most of the people in catalonia will recognise they are really on a very stiff wicket here. and will then rally behind the unitary voices. of course it's a big gamble, you cannot be sure of catalonia on the 21st of december voting for maintaining unity, it could go the other way and then what will you have? you really have a pretty nasty situation, you allowed a legal referendum called an election to go ahead and the result is they want

independence. i'm sure the economic argument carries away, it didn't weigh in scotland and is certainly didn't in brexit where we will be poorer leaving the european union. you could argue that for yugoslavia, if you want greater control of your own affairs, those arguments can sound abstract and the prerequisite of a nationalist movement is a confidence in identity.

looking at europe in the last 25 years, how many new states do we have? look at the baltic states, look at czechoslovakia, the czech republic and slovakia. we have accepted these new definitions of national boundaries for 30 years and the catalans have a very strong case, they are bigger than portugal. with respect, the comparison to brexit doesn't convince me because brexit was taken as a vision of a unitary country called great britain to exit the eu. everything in this. i'm not... take scotland. it's probably stronger in the case of catalonia because that is a country within spain, if they deny themselves the advantage of being part of the unity of the country, they really face an economic crisis such a huge proportion, that really it is totally unconscionable. that would depend on whether finally the eu would accept them as a member, which in all conscience they should if they get there by a constitutional process and it wouldn't do the eu good either to have a collapsing catalonia. on this topic, a final thought

from you, a crystal ball prediction, a couple of months, as things stand this weekend, what is your sense of what we could be looking at on the 21st of december? i wish... big question, i know... i think it is going to be very important, as i say, the way the separatist parties are going to present to their voters this election. having said that, i think it is going to be crucial importance to see the result. because obviously, i think that right now, the majority of the catalan people don't want to see independence, according to the last catalan election and according to the last illegal referendum.

but it is obvious that 2 million catalan people are not happy there. so obviously, the result of this election is going to be vital to see what is going to be the situation in the near future for the catalan people. and obviously, if the result shows there is a big support for the kind of dialogue with madrid in terms of another referendum, legal referendum oratorios something like that, or something like that, it is time to discuss the constitution maybe. but i think according to the opinion polls, there is some belief that constitutional parties are going to win this election. ok, it is a waiting game and now, we watch, wait, listen and discuss again before that date. thank you to all of you. to china, where at the end of the 5

yearly communist party congress, president xi has his "thought" now written into the party constitution. the unveiling of the politburu, the men who rule alongside him, revealed no member young enough to be the heir apparent. in president xi's three and a half hour speech to congress, he set out a vision notjust for the five years ahead, but for 30. isabel, is he planning to go on and on? he certainly is. and now he can. before the congress, there was the question of his own retirements discussed and he has conducted a very profound and some say savage anti—corruption campaign for five years to clear his path to power, in the course he has made many enemies. was it safe for him to step down?

probably not, but then how was he going to stay in power? now he has given himself a status next to god, he can occupy any position he likes or none at all, he will still be china's strongman. we are in a new era now, back to the strongman vision of politics. and that is just driven by that one man? are the apparatchiks around him? who gives the sucker. the other thing about this congress, something like 70% of the central committee, the politburo and the standing committee have changed, those people are substantially president xi's men, mostly men, and some are compromised figures but there is no doubt he is in charge. who is the arbiter of xi jingping's thought other than the man himself? if you oppose xi jingping, you oppose him, the party and the country, not a comfortable position to be in. he is virtually the constitution personified, and it is hard to see how anyone will ever challenge him on present prospectus. indeed, but the degree of rupture, this is a huge rupture from deng xiaoping.

people describe the killer of chairman mao, then there was deng xiaoping who saved the economy and now xi jingping in is saving the party. the real history of that is that deng xiaoping was regarded by chairman mao as a monstrous enemy who he repeatedly imprisoned and tried to get rid of, accusing him of trying to take the capitalist road and indeed he did as soon as chairman mao died. his legacy was to try and ensure china never again suffered he set up a more central system, retirement ages and ideas of terms in the party, ten years and you retired at 69, created by deng xiaoping to avoid this situation where one man and his thought and we'll dominated the country. an -- the thought will an —— the thought will dominated the country. how could that happen, the deng xiaoping legacy

was overturned and it has stepped back into the strongman ideology? it has taken five years and starts from a point, if you think from when xi jingping took over, the party was in crisis, it was deeply corrupt. nobody believes in communism frankly in china. in i say nobody, there are always some but the majority were not desperately waking up thinking they need a new guiding light of the party's ideology. so, how do you say the communist party in a state that has practised state capitalism and is open to the world, which is largely not communist? you have to devise a message and build a strong security structure, the message is substantially nationalism, reinvigorating the chinese nation. china was done down by foreigners, we are back, it's our turn now and it is a popular message. he also had a message about the environment which has been a big lytic at issue, and about a little more fairness in the distribution of benefits of the last 20—30 years

—— political issue. those are popular messages but the guiding principle is a muscular nationalism which we are all going to feel. you say economic the it's fascinating. as well as china 's position on the international stage, i thought it was significant how he was putting forward china as filling the vacuum on the international stage left by trump as he retreats from american international commitments, very much positioning china as a leader in a more forceful way then we have seen previously on the world stage. but economic lee, he faces serious challenges right now. my takeaway from the congress is this time, you didn't have these clear economic targets outlined. five years ago, there was this goal of doubling the size of the chinese

economy, not much said about that this time around, and i think he is facing the challenges now. not only trying to revive the state—owned enterprises, but how does he manage the private sector? particularly these wealthy chinese tycoons who have de facto become a bit of a critical force, because the private sector we have seen this crackdown on wealthy tycoons, and the government, the chinese government has demanded a stake in some of china's biggest technology companies and a role in decision—making which is a great grab by president xi for china's future. broadly speaking, he needs to move china away from this model of low—wage export—oriented state investment growth model, to one of its more reliant on domestic consumption and that

will require higher wages, how does he do that? that his main challenge going ahead and how does he do that when he is the all—powerful emperor. you are absolutely right and i think the two are closely connected because if you are a wobbly communist party facing difficult you want to establish a fierce control over every aspect. hence we see party sales, private companies being obliged to have party cells, private equity in these companies. but you have an enormous debts, which maybe three times the advertiser level, an ageing population who are not going to consume, a shrinking workforce. you have a lot of headwinds and surplus capacity in things like steel and cement which cost a lot of money.

so, there is a two pronged approach, you need to move up the technology value chain and be innovative, how that fits the ideological top—down control remains to be seen, and you need to establish a presence in the road, the building of infrastructure across asia. but also the acquisition of high—tech firms and there is beginning to be resistance in germany and other countries about the idea that china is going to buy up the most advanced technologies, subsidise the companies that produce them and then outcompete in third markets. we will see all kinds of international tensions on the terms of trade in the coming years. underlying all of this is the question, how do you maintain a liberalised economy while at the same time pressing ever more human rights —— suppressing? china is paradoxical, we used to think an increase in economic liberalisation naturally leads to political freedom, we have been disabused of that notion entirely. china has become the second most important economy in the world

and yet suppression is increasing, they are becoming more authoritarian. sooner or later, the dichotomy of these two developments, giving in to more economic prowess at the same time by suppressing human rights, will lead to a conflict down the line, even in china. china cannot escape, i'm sure. does it change though, only if other western countries stop investing and doing business? will that happen? not on the cards. no, it's not going to happen but there is another point, and thomas is right. but when mao zedong had a strong ideological line and total control, the totalitarian version, china was closed. there were very few foreign influences, no news came from outside and little from the inside.

now china is trying to operate in the world and what you see, one of the interesting things to watch is part of the party called the united front work department, that is what manages relationships between the party and you and i for example, or foreign universities. that is the outfit that does influence buying in other countries, the outfit that many hundreds of thousands of students who are studying in universities abroad are controlled by. you have this chinese presence everywhere and behind it remains a united front work department trying to pull the strings and ensure that we all accent the party line, not just the chinese. that is obviously a step of panic. the bbc, new york times were not allowed to take... they got that from president trump. i see a similarity, you are right but that seems to indicate they worry about individual freedom eventually getting the better of the entire system of suppression.

isobel, you say this is china trying to engage with the outside world but people watching will say ok, what about human rights? talking about the economy and environment, what about human rights, the issues of tibet? if you look at what people have said about that in the last five years, you can hardly hear it. the european union hardly squeaks about human rights anymore, certainly the british don't. you don't get much on tibet either because whenever anyone raises these issues, china turns round and says do you want to do business or not? you do it on our terms. there is going to be a real challenge to western values, notjust in china, but here. how strongly do we defend our values in these circumstances? how do we insist? are our values universe at —— universal order we put them in our pockets to do a business deal. yes, you do get a sense they are very much looking at what led to the dissolution

of the soviet union, what followed and they are keen to avoid the mistakes that were made whereby the economy was beholden in a rush to the oligarchs, corruption followed and a weakening of the state. and he seems very much in tent on making sure that doesn't happen, the so—called oligarchs of china do not gain an upper hand in the same way and it all remains under central party control. and the party is a party that people respect, because the party has been held in fairly widespread contempt, for what it did in the past but also once it stopped murdering its own people, they then got rich. what's to respect there? the anti—corruption drive is popular because people do think the party is corrupt. thank you so much to all of you. that's all we have time for this week. hello there. for many of us it is a

colder feel out there, particularly in comparison to less the day. there have been some subtle differences. the calder error arrived through scotland, and was a beautiful sunset this morning —— sunrise. first thing in the morning, we had cloud and drizzle across the london area. it will clear away south and west slowly but surely, perhaps not leaving the extreme south—west.

behind it, it is introducing cooler airfrom the north. that behind it, it is introducing cooler air from the north. that is behind it, it is introducing cooler airfrom the north. that is going behind it, it is introducing cooler air from the north. that is going to be the story for the rest of the afternoon, it is going to feel quite of showers cold, but these guttering of showers running in. the cold air not really arriving into the extreme south—west, so here we will see temperatures of around 1415 degrees. elsewhere, top temperatures around five to nine. overnight, that high pressure stays on us, and those temperatures will fall away quite sharply through the night, and we will see a frost in the morning, our first widespread frost across the country. not a hard frost, but hopefully a beach full scene to wake up hopefully a beach full scene to wake up to first thing on monday morning, and some sunshine running through as

well. eventually, a south—westerly wind will return, and that will bring slowly but surely, milder air, and more cloud and rain. not as cold bring slowly but surely, milder air, and more onid and rain. not as cold bring slowly but surely, milder air, and more on mondayiin. not as cold bring slowly but surely, milder air, and more on monday in. not as cold bring slowly but surely, milder air, and more on monday in northern old as sunday on monday in northern ireland and western scotland. the high pressure never really leaves england and wales as you go through the midweek. we will see these weak weather fronts pushing the midweek. we will see these weak weatherfronts pushing in. enter next week, it will be milder, there will be a lot of cloud and breezy at times,... this is bbc news. the headlines at midday: tens of thousands take to the streets of barcelona, in support of spanish unification. this is the scene live in barcelona,

where the rally is supported by all the country's main national political parties. the international trade minister, mark garnier, faces an investigation after he admitted asking his secretary to buy sex toys. heathrow airport says it's investigating how details of its security procedures were found lying in the street. anthonyjoshua successfully defends his wba and ibf world heavyweight boxing titles with a tenth round stoppage. and spotting fake news and debunking the people in power — the journalists trying to sort fact from fiction — that's coming