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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  November 12, 2017 2:30am-3:01am GMT

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the husband of a british woman jailed in iran has told the bbc he will speak to the foreign secretary on sunday. nazanin zaghari—ratcliffe is accused of spying. her family fears her sentence could be extended after comments from borisjohnson gave the false impression she'd been teaching journalism. hundreds of thousands of catalans have protested in barcelona, calling for the release of pro—independence politicians and activists who've been detained by the spanish courts. the spanish prime minister, mariano rajoy, will visit catalonia on sunday to start campaigning for upcoming elections. now on bbc news, dateline london. hello.
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this is dateline london. i'm shaun ley. this week, two ways to shuffle your rivals out of the door — house arrest in a luxury hotel or a 6,500km flight of shame. to discuss whether saudi arabia saw a purge or a power grab last weekend, and whether the resignation of the british cabinet minister priti patel was a missed opportunity for prime minister theresa may, i'm joined by iain martin, columnist with the times of london, who used his column to urge theresa may to clear out the old lags and bring some fresh talent into her government, agnes poirier, who endeavours to explain brexit to the folks back home in the pages of the french magazine, marianne, nesrine malik, sudanese journalist and reader of the runes for us on the saudi political massacre last saturday night, and jeffrey kofman, the canadian broadcaster, who'll bring a north american perspective on all of that. last saturday will live long in the memory of saudis and of those who observe the country. a day of high drama began with the resignation of lebanon's prime minister not in beirut,
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his own country's capital, but in riyadh. some suggested he had been summoned to the kingdom and ordered to resign after the saudis found out he'd met a representative of the supreme leader of iran, saudi arabia's regional rival. that same evening, the saudis shot down a missile fired by houthi rebels from yemen — a reminder of a far less successful bit of foreign meddling where saudi intervention has singularly failed to end the rebellion. then, a little before midnight, in a country where politics is usually conducted well out of sight and change agreed by consensus, news of an anti—corruption purge which snared serving government ministers and past ones, and even members of the country's extensive royal family. the attorney general tells us this is only phase one. nesrine, a phase ordered, it is said, by king salman‘s son, the crown prince. what is he up to? too much. the heir to the throne is very much loved by the media because he has presented himself as a moderniser, but he's also young and rash
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and part of a generation of saudi princes kind of brought up in the bubble of royalty. there are three generations of saudi royalty — the old generation, the generation of the king, who remember what it was like not to be royalty. they are in their 70s and 80s and they have some perspective. the second generation of princes go to sandhurst and ivy league universities and become diplomats, very dedicated and westernised, and then there's the millennial generation of princess — much more dangerous because they've lived their whole life in a bubble and don't have the perspective of being ordinary citizens fighting for a monarchy. —— been ordinary. and they don't have the exposure to the outside world that gives them perspective, and the prince's son is very much of that generation. the danger is the disconnect
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between what he's doing and his tactility and perception of it, because he hasn't had any real—life experience either as a politician or an individual. that's where he's coming from as a quote unquote "reformer" within the saudi establishment. because things have happened so quickly, he feels he needs to do a pre—emptive purge, because he has set aside the previous heir to the throne, who is under house arrest at the moment. so this is a sort of pre—emptive coup that he has done to make sure that there is no movement on behalf of the old regime to get him out of the picture, which would have been very possible because he's young, he hasn't yet amassed a huge network of patronage within the royal family or the saudi establishment, and people against him were some very influential people. his assets are open to rationalisation, so that's not
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a great position to be in. —— nationalisation. he's trying to pre—emptively consolidate power within the hands of him and his coterie and in doing so, he's dressed it up as anti—corruption and clever foreign policy. he has dressed it up as anti—iran movements. so he has taken three things — anti—hezbollah, anti—shi'ism manifested as being anti—iran, the purge within the royal family and his sort of pivot towards modernisation and technology — but all these are dressed—up versions of power. completely. this word 'corruption' — that implies that there are saudi royals that are not corrupt. it's a very, very big royal family, a lot of people.
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my point is there is no rule of law by transparency or accountability. it is a different economic and political culture. that is the point. this word 'corruption' has been used conveniently by putin in the past and used by china. it's not really about that. a lot of double—dealing and illegal payments have gone on in the country for a long time. so we are talking about political... 7 you could have substituted north korea for much of what you just said about consolidating power and eliminating threats to power. what makes this particularly dangerous is that two things happening simultaneously are conflated. you've got the domestic situation, that centralisation of power away
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from a diffuse leadership in which there are a lot at stakeholders, towards a centralised reformist model, —— of stakeholders, towards a centralised reformist model, as nbs is trying to do now. simultaneously, it is also about iran and the saudis. this is where it gets dangerous globally. because you essentially have mbs — backed by trump, although not by rex tillerson — so the us administration is split but trump is very much endorsing what this prince says and would probably love to do it in america! he is close to the crown prince and has been an interlocutor for him. rex tillerson warned about the proxy wars. that warning was aimed at trump. trump tweeted that the crown prince knows precisely what he is doing and the fear is that trump,
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benjamin netanyahu in israel, and the crown prince are taking on too much, and the target is iran and building up some sort of conflict with iran. is that why, agnes, the president of france rushed there? they still take an interest in local affairs there. he was a friend of many french presidents. president macron was in abu dhabi for the opening of the louvre museum and did a surprise visit and spent time with mohammed bin salman, mbs. i could not put it better than nesrine did on the domestic stage, but what is perplexing and frightening to see from the west is that new configurations of israel, trump and mbs on iran. it could fizzle out as it sometimes does in the least,
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but i think there is a risk of conflict there, and again, 11 years later, the northern border of israel, and israel, —— it could fizzle out as it sometimes does in middle east but i think there is a risk of conflict there, and again, 11 years later, hezbollah flying over the northern border of israel, and israel, lebanon is against this hostage, the playground of regional politics. we don't know where he is. we don't know if he's been kidnapped. he was born in riyadh. he is a national.
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i don't think france can do anything. macron went there and said, "please, can you do something?" but what could the west do? the us could do something in that we have trump there. the west is morally compromised because the west has sold so many billion dollars worth of arms to saudi arabia, used them against yemen. in the last two years, even more from the us... that is the leverage, we are told that... this gives us the influence in riyadh. it says to the crown prince, hang on, all back. i think the reality is that these arms are so important that they employ people in the us and canada so that renders governments impotent. they dare not stop the arms sales because ofjobs. it is not by accident that the british view is that yemen
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is a proxy war and it would be a bad thing for the region if iran — which is effectively running the war in yemen — if yemen that, and saudi eventually fell in some way or that was regional disruption. i know it is a dirty war, a terrible mass but there is logic —— i know it is a dirty war, a terrible mess but there is logic behind it as well which is trying to block the progress of the iranians. i agree and also with this view that there is a moral responsibility and behalf of the west to contain any middle eastern power is befuddling. not much different from when they played a colonial role. we've fallen into this mindset when there is trouble in these countries, what can we do? we must send a western diplomat!
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as if we were some kind of moral arbiter. if the crown prince looks at what it has done in yemen, where you could say it is his background and he could intervene, it hasn't been an unqualified success. it could be a quagmire. could lebanon be a quagmire as well? it is highly possible. this is because people feel there is something that needs to happen. i think the best case scenario is that it turns into dubai, mandated royal family emirate. but there's too much water under the bridge in terms of radicalisation and sectarianism, so to get to a dubai situation, there is a lot that needs to happen and it could get messy. 0k. wednesday was a very long day in downing street. the prime minister theresa may
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wanted to be rid of priti patel, a cabinet colleague who'd failed to disclose the full extent of her freelance meddling in middle east politics whilst she was supposedly on a family holiday. unfortunately, miss patel, whojust 48 hours before had been given a dressing down and told she could stay in herjob but who now faced more damaging revelations, was 6,500 miles away, in uganda. she was ordered back to london. it took many hours before her plane touched down, she was whisked to downing street, in through the back door of number ten, the prime minister's office, and then out of government altogether. iain, what had she done wrong? and what do you think the way that this has been handled tells us about the state of play in the british government? the priti patel story at least shows that britain is a world leader in producing farce. people will remember fawlty towers... this is the government equivalent. she had been effectively freelancing, in foreign policy terms, and why she had felt able to do that is very revealing about what is wrong with the state of the government.
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the uk parliament looks like hogwarts and is in fact a school, very like a school. the politicians know that the headmistress is devoid of all authority, and in those circumstances, you get chaos. people don't fear the sack or the withdrawal of patronage in the way that they would with a stronger prime minister. so she's in a difficult position. conventionally, she should, and i would urge her to radically clear up the cabinet and bring in new people. is she waiting, because you talk about authority and the budget is coming, it's the most important political stage apart from brexit... brexit isn't going well. there's a budget come
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on november 22, the scope for manoeuvre is limited. if she did go for the bold reshuffle, it could be the last thing she did in office. she would be reshuffling herself out of herjob. the lack of authority means she can't do it. ultimately, it comes back to what those of us thought after the botched election which went wrong and left with no majority injune, the uk effectively needs new leadership, the tories need new leadership, a big question mark over who it would be but almost anyone would have more authority than the current incumbent. anyone apart from boris johnson, who was widely fancied but has had a difficult week. this plays into the debate about foreign affairs.
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while brexit is going on, he's been caught up in a row of a british iranian prisoner. he has left it to iran to decide on the fate of the british foreign minister, which is amazing. he should be off there later this week to visit. he is known internationally, yes, but for being a clown. there are some people who still look up to britain but also in despair because... i didn't report on the priti patel story. too many things happening, active head of the british government at the moment. to the european leadership expect a change of government in the uk or is that brinkmanship. the problem is that she is very weak.
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she either should show strength... i think it is too late to show strength. she's lost that. it is in the interests of the tory party to have her there, they like to be weak until they get rid of her. the tory party and a lot of brexiteers, and i speak as someone who voted for brexit, there's a lot of dilution here, the tory party can't decide who replaces her... she is sticking with that, despite not wanting to do it. the phrase was, holding on to nurse forfear of someone was. “ worse. i don't think it can be borisjohnson, this mess with iran vindicates the claims made by michael gove lost it when he said mrjohnson didn't concentrate on the details and could not be trusted with highest office.
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this seems to vindicate him. just to clarify. he said that the woman who was being held, whose family say she was on holiday at the time, she is gotjoint citizenship, he said she was training journalists. this has been flatly denied by the authorities and by her family and gave some in authority in iran the excuse to say this is not far short of being a spy. classic boris loose language but at some point, i would've thought, considering the mass of british politics at the moment, if britain is to find a way to brexit with the eu and things looked quite promising one month ago, less so now, i think it will require someone with a bit of authority. interestingly, angela merkel and macron have done quite a bit to prop up theresa may. probably because they feared getting johnson, or they were worried about dealing with.
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if it is notjohnson and it is someone else at least someone else would have the authority. this is the crazy thing, observed from the outside where a lot of people look up to britain, you think, how, in this most civilised of democracies, is the playing field is so devoid of anyone that can be promoted into a position of power? the fact we're talking about boris johnson, priti patel, theresa may, jacob rhys mogg had this moment when some people thought he could be proposed as... a backbencher, quite eccentric. the point is that brexit has sucked the air out of the room in british politics and everything has become infected with brexit. i don't agree. let's go back to the original sin, why is theresa may weak?
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because she is in a minority government. why? because she called an election to strengthen her mandate because of brexit. why are boris johnson and priti patel in those positions? they are brexit loyalists. why are we in dire straits, in negotiations, if people are deluded, it has affected everything. this brexit shaped cloud, it rains over everything. i can see the situation is sub optimal, that is a polite way of putting it, but i think something really interesting is happening here. if that is how you describe it, as sub optimal. it is chaotic but how could it be otherwise if effectively the dominant world view of the british ruling elite or most of it, the governing elite of the last 40, 50 years about britain operates, its relationship with the eu and people is leaving the eu, not leaving europe, it is geographically impossible to do that, thank goodness. in those circumstances its ruling
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elite's world view rejected by the majority of british voters who want self—government. in those circumstances of course it produces turmoil. britain is having to rethink its place in the world. you are conflating two things. you are conflating brexit, the actual technical aspect of it with the chaos that has ensued. the fact that i say that brexit hangs over british politics and drugs if does not mean brexit is wrong. itjust means the politicians who lobbied for it don't know what they are doing. those are two very different things. both the main parties are split. the country is still split right the middle. my hope was that someone would emerge who could unite moderates and force some sort of compromise. at one point it looked like theresa may until the general election changed that. i am not from britain
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but i live here. and i agree, it is not about whether you are for or against, it seems almost inevitable that it will be suboptimal. that's a polite word! i won't say on air the other words that i can think of. laughter you have such weak leadership. we haven't even mentioned jeremy corbyn... he is up three aw four points. the leader of the labour party. ambiguous about his own attitude to europe in the past. exactly. given the floundering leadership of the tory party he should be up a huge amount and he is not. it is really reflective of this absolute vacuum of strong leadership, let's be clear, in the next year the future of the country for two generations will be determined, this departure from the eu, trump, whatever he is, there are term limits, getting out of eu will affect the grandchildren of today's people
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in a way we can't imagine and this is being handled by people with no vision and no moral authority and no road map. i agree with you. it is very, very difficult to do this, one of the most difficult things britain has done since 1945, without a functioning prime minister invested with authority that people of different views can rally behind and have some faith in, that they are trying to get the best possible deal. which is why i agree that there needs to be a change. agnes, do you think, that given this domestic circumstances of which people like angela merkel and macron are well aware, given the destabilising effect brexit could have if mishandled, when the point comes will that make them much more willing to offer meaningful concessions? because it is not in europe's interests of this to go pear shaped, to use a british expression.
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the eu doesn't have too much to lose, or to fear from brexit. apart from the euro. really? i think there is one solution, reverse, you can reverse, guys. not going to happen. we'll talk about it in a year's time, i think a strong leader, strong british prime minister will say, look, or the british parliament, will say, well actually... in defiance of the british electorate? the british parliament is the legitimacy of the power. it is not
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too late. if the message to voters who voted to reject a political elite is that that they don't regret it, they don't regret it... they regret it. let's have a second referendum. make it best—of—s! 0n the eurozone, you said, the eu, because we are in europe, has nothing to lose. the eurozone is run effectively, the debts machine runs out of london. 75%—80% of the activity, the swaps, the foreign exchanges, the stuff that makes the eurozone go round is london. some of that of course can go to frankfurt. bits can go to paris. but the german finance ministry really does understand the potential risks of dislocation. which is why i would hope, in the end, and macron and angela merkel can facilitate some kind of deal. but sometimes i accept that european
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history happens by accident. what deal does britain want? brexit can happen if britain it knows what it wants. what style of trade agreement do they want? like the canada one? like the norwegian style? make up your mind. and then we can start discussing it. for concessions, it's not a negotiation. and nor is this! we are out of time. thank you all very much. we are back at the same time next week. you can comment on the programme on twitter. from all of us, good night. it looks as though. remembrance
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sunday on a crisp note. a cold wind and showers through the day. they will mostly be confined to the coast. 12 running through the keshi gap to the midlands. these will ease back to west facing coast and down through the north sea as well. it will be cold, breezy, but lots of dry, sunny weather in the offing. top temperatures around 6— 10 degrees. as we go through sunday evening into monday, the isobars will open up as high pressure bumps in from the west and things quieten down. with lighter would and clearer
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skies to riches will fall away quite sharply. a widespread frost in rural parts. those of minus five degrees. we are likely to see some rain putting in to northern ireland and scotla nd putting in to northern ireland and scotland stop only leading edge of that we could see some snow first on monday. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is duncan golestani. our top stories: face—to—face — president trump says he believes vladimir putin when he says russia didn't meddle in the us elections. the husband of a british—iranian womanjailed in tehran is to meet the british foreign secretary on sunday. protests in barcelona — thousands call for the release of pro—independence leaders. spain's prime minister will visit catalonia on sunday. and, brothers reunited — the two argentine men who met completely by chance decades after being given up for adoption.
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