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tv   Tuesday in Parliament  BBC News  November 22, 2017 2:30am-3:01am GMT

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the headlines: crowds have been celebrating in zimbabwe following the surprise resignation of president robert mugabe. the news sparked wild celebrations with thousands of people pouring onto the streets in the capital harare. robert mugabe has been in power for 37 years since zimbabwe became independent in 1980. his surprise announcement came in a letter read out by the speaker of parliament shortly after impeachment proceedings to remove him began. in the letter he said the decision was voluntary and he had made it to allow a smooth transfer of power. officials from the governing zanu—pf party say mr mugabe's vice—president, emmerson mnangagwa will be sworn in as president within 48 hours. zimbabwe's opposition leader, morgan tsvangirai, said it was now necessary to craft a framework for free and fair elections. now on bbc news, tuesday in parliament. hello and welcome to the programme.
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coming up in the next half hour... the foreign secretary tells mps a return to customs posts on the irish border after brexit would be "unthinkable". there can be no hard border, that would be unthinkable, it would be economic and political madness. mps continue their detailed scrutiny of the eu withdrawal bill and demand reassurances on citizens rights. there aren't british rights, there are a universal human rights and that is the message that this government and our comradeship sent to the rest of the world. and the government promises it will bring in new rules on the use of drones to try to protect aeroplanes. but first, the leader of the dup, arlene foster, has suggest that
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—— suggested that ireland and the rest of the eu were being "careless" and "reckless" in the way they were using concerns about the northern irish border as part of the brexit talks. in a bbc interview, mrs foster also suggested that there was no way the eu and the uk could "put down red lines" on the border before moving to the second phase of brexit negotiations. it follows ireland's suggesting that the uk must give a firm commitment that there would be no hard border between northern ireland and ireland after brexit. the subject came up at foreign office questions in the commons. it is now nearly 50 long years since the start of the troubles in northern ireland and none of us who lived in that era want to go back to it again. in february 2016 the foreign secretary gave his guarantee to bbc northern ireland that a vote for brexit would leave
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arrangements on the irish border and i quote, "absolutely unchanged." no caveats, no i hope this will happen, just a commitment that nothing would change. can the foreign secretary give us the same promises today? my right honourable friend is right to ask that question, because i was recently in dublin talking to all the political groups there and there is no question that the issue of the border is very live in irish politics. i repeated exactly the pledge to which she refers, there can be no return to a hard border, there can be no hard border, it would be unthinkable, it would be economic and political madness. and we certainly, i think everyone on both sides of this house understands the social, political and spiritual ramifications of allowing any such thing to happen. that is why it is so important that we get onto the second phase of the negotiations, that we get sufficient progress at
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the european council in december and we are able to debate these issues properly. i thank the foreign secretary for that answer. no one will have missed the fact that like so many of his initial promises over brexit, he has turned a guaranteed to an aspiration dependent on a successful deal. i was listening to the right honourable gentleman and it seemed to me, like hisjocking partner from the sun, he seems to be saying it is up to the irish to find a solution but why should that be? it was his promise that border arrangements would not change and it is up to him to make sure that works. and that is why i want to challenge him today, because in september he laid down four personal red lines for the brexit
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negotiations and none of them related to the irish land border, which is a crucial issue. let me urge him today to announce a fifth red line and to promise what he promised last year that irish border arrangements will not change anything do, he will refuse to stay in the government. if i may say so, i think she prepared her supplementary question before she heard my first answer. there can be no return to a hard border, we do not want our hard border north south or east or west. a conservative turned to the news that britain is to lose its seat on the international criminal court in the hague for the first time since the court was set up in 1946. britain was hoping its current representative would be elected for a second term, but withdrew his nomination when the united nations general assembly
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backed a rival candidate from india. there is no hiding that the loss of a british judge on the icj is a major failure for british diplomacy. what can be done to ensure this doesn't happen again? i don't think i can quite agree with their construction my friend places on events but i will repeat my congratulations to the indian judge and as the house will know, it has been an objective of uk foreign policy to support india in the un. borisjohnson. once britain departs the european union, will british citizens still have all the same rights they enjoy now? human rights dominated the latest day of detailed debate on the all—important eu withdrawal bill. although this brings european law over into uk law, the bill as it stands at the moment doesn't bring over the eu charter of fundamental rights. the charter guarantees rights under the headings of dignity, equality,
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justice, solidarity and freedom. in the commons, there were arguments both for keeping the charter and for dropping it. by compiling these rights in the single document, the chancellor effectively created new rights attorney new protections. in short, the charter is the most effective key to unlocking vital rights and the failure to transpose it and make it operable in uk law is to lock those rights away and deny uk citizens the key to accessing them. my point is that our rights will be guaranteed once we have left by the supreme court and the common law or the art location for a statue of law and i cannot think that the light that would be destroyed because we have not co—opted the charter, think they will be guaranteed by these ancient and tested methods. we will continue to be a beacon of freedom for the world.
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as we have demonstrated since magna carta up to and including the more recent commitments to respecting and remaining the party for the european convention on human rights. one mp put forward an amendment calling for ministers to produce a report on the effects of not having the charter. we need to have a more detailed analysis from ministers about the consequences of deleting this charter of fundamental rights. they are potentially far ranging. as a lawyer and someone who enjoyed jurisprudence, our laws and rights come from different sources. i do not like stuff being written down too much, i like to develop over time. but can i say, i would need persuading about this amendment because it is have a report and it seems awfully wet! laughter. i was trying my best to say let us meet halfway. let us find a way of forging a consensus. is he concerned with me, when there are still children in the world who are engaged in slave labour? there are still being trafficked, they are
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still working as child soldiers. that the message that this sense, that the uk with simply do away with rights, that we campaigned for, that gave us the universal declaration is an borrowers and really does need the minister to come to this —— an abhorrence and really does need the minister to come to this dispatch box and say he has changed his mind? this argument of saying that we do not we have rights given to us by the european union, we cannot manage to do it ourselves is utter nonsense. we are signed up to the european convention, we have an equality act, we have signed a lot of un treaties covered the offensive notion that if we do not adopt this, we somehow human rights is actually offensive nonsense. this is notjust about the application of the european charter in british law,
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it is a matter of the message we send to the rest of the world and this goes to the heart of the problem with the so—called british bill of rights, there are not british rights, there are universal human rights. this is the message we need to send to the rest of the world where people do not have those rights. i was responsible in part for the protection of children bill back in the 19705 and my gender equality bill, these are intrinsic acts, we do not need the charter to do that, we do it ourselves. does he not find it odd that we are transposing all of eu law into our own laws, but the thing that really underpins all the eu laws we are taking away, it's taking away the fundamentals, the foundation of what is the body of the eu law.
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my real worries about the charter are that it is simply too complicated. it does not add sufficient rights and everyone here is in favour of the rights we have in the convention. we are very keen on those may want to protect them, but we do not feel that the charter as sufficiently. she suggested that the charter of fundamental rights contains rights to complicated to be incorporated into english law. can you reassure her that those rights have been incorporated into scots law and also all the legal systems of all the member states of the european union and it is not too complicated to do it into english law? at the end of that debate, there followed a series of votes including one on those charters. the government won the day meaning that so far it has not been defeated on any of the votes of the bill. mps have another five days of committee stage debate on the eu withdrawal bill still to go. you're watching
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tuesday in parliament, with me, alicia mccarthy. don't forget you can find all our programmes on the bbc iplayer. the immigration minister has told mps that foreign nationals whose applications for settled status in the uk are rejected following brexit could be deported before their appeals are heard. brandon lewis told the house of commons home affairs committee he expected deportations to take place only in clear—cut cases. if you have somebody who the home office assesses is trying to, as you say, game the system or trying to... um, or, does — is not eligible, will they be able to remain in the uk while they appeal? well, again, that depends on the situation, because obviously there are going to be a number of different groups of people, so if somebody is an eu citizen and is in the uk but hasn't fulfilled
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their five years yet, then obviously, they have the right to stay because they are allowed to apply to get to five years. someone who is not an eu citizen who is claiming to be an eu citizen would therefore be committing fraud and we would look to deal with them in normal immigration routes. which means that they would be liable to removal. ok, so in those circumstances, even though somebody has an appeal, so even though the home office may have made an incorrect decision which you would accept under the current... given the current number of appeals that get overturned, you would still deport somebody in advance of their appeal? we can deport people in advance of appeal because you can appealfrom overseas, but again, it depends on the circumstances of the individual case. so it's difficult to answer that because it depends on the individual case and the circumstances. ok, so you're not ruling out...
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so again in your technical notes you seem to suggest that actually eu citizens would be able to remain here while the appeal? i did specifically say this is somebody who is not an eu citizen, who is claiming to be an eu citizen. but if that is the issue on which they are appealing, so their appeal is that the home office has got it wrong claiming that they are a citizen from outside the eu when in fact they are an eu citizen, under those circumstances you still plan to deport them? well, no, as i said, we plan to look at each case on an individual basis, so if you look at a case on an individual basis and an individual case is claiming to be an eu citizen and they have reason to claim that they are and they believe that the system has got it wrong, then in that particular case, it's likely we would allow them to stay. the uk's amphibious forces, capable of landing troops from the sea, are an elite fighting force vital for an island nation. that was the message from mps of all parties
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during a westminster hall debate. they formed a united front to urge the chancellor philip hammond to avoid making any defence cuts in the budget. the ministry of defence embarked on a new defence review injuly. according to media reports, it includes proposals to reduce the number of royal marines by 1,000 or take two specialist landing ships, hms albion and bulwark, out of action. today, we must send a united message to the chancellor that his decisions on these matters will have consequences, that we cannot do national security on the cheap, that we must ensure that our armed forces have the resources that they need to deal with the threats that we face and that any reduction in our amphibious capability or in the numbers of our royal marines would be the wrong cuts at the wrong time. his backbenchers are telling him, his own party grandees are telling him and those in this room will today, i am sure, agree as we prepare to exit the european union and chart a new course for britain's role in the world, we cannot play fast and loose with the defence of the realm. she revealed her "fondness" for the royal marines. i feel immensely privileged to have had the opportunity to visit our royals around the world
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and even to have taken part, sort of, in their arctic training in norway, at least what they allowed me to pretend to do. i have seen first—hand their extraordinary courage, ability, focus and fortitude. they are truly an elite fighting force. but what really stood out for me, and i'm sure for anyone who has spent any time with them, is the mindset that they bring to the role. first to understand, first to adapt and respond and first to overcome. a conservative mp said cutting 1,000 marines would be a "grave mistake." the royal marines are some of the most elite infantry in the world and are in effect tier two special forces. we also derive around 40% of our tier one special forces, the sas and the sbs, from the royal marines. not only do the royal marines have an incredibly proud history, having recently celebrated their 350th anniversary, they also have tremendous utility and i can see no defence advantage at all in getting rid of 1,000
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of the best maritime infantry in the world. johnny mercer is a former army commando. i think it's very important that we don't dictate tactically what we ask our professionals to do in this country. what i mean by that is that ourjob here is to ensure, is to hold the government's feet to the fire and to ensure that what they say with one hand is matched by the other. the government has a very small majority and we will hold them to account on this issue because on this issue, i'm afraid, the feelings are running high. we have to go back to our constituents and justify what we do in this place every weekend and i'm determined that we will come through, see them through provide the country with the defences we need. albion and bulwark are strategic assets which other nations rely on. getting rid of this vital command and control capability would be nothing short of an abdication of that responsibility and undermine uk leadership when it will be under more scrutiny after brexit. this debate has no doubt been
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prompted by speculation in the media on the future of the amphibious ships. as members will be aware, the government has initiated work on a review of national security capabilities which is being conducted to ensure the uk's investment in national security capabilities is as joined up, effective and efficient as possible for the threats that we face in the 215t century. will she confirm the press reports that the new secretary of state for defence has asked the treasury for more money? i can confirm that there have been press reports, yes, mrgray. i can also confirm that we are one of only 13 nato countries that meet the guideline to spend 20% of our defence budget on major equipment and research and development. the defence minister refusing to give anything away.
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what can be done to increase convictions in cases of domestic abuse? it was a question put to the director of public prosecutions when she appeared in front of the commonsjustice committee. official figures show there were an estimated two million adults aged 16 to 59 who said they were a victim of domestic abuse in the last year and according to the office for national statistics, a decision to charge was made for 70% of domestic abuse cases referred to the cps by the police. do you think increasing the scope or in fact defining domestic abuse in law as is planned in scotland in the domestic abuse bill that is going through the scottish parliament would help or does that present its own challenges? with the upcoming domestic abuse bill in the new year as promised in the queen's speech, what needs to change in our approach at all levels to domestic abuse in order to increased conviction rates? i mean, i think the
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definition may help. of course, the details... the devil's always in the details, so it depends on what the definition is. but i think a definition which we're all working to may help. we already have that to some extent in that we in the police have agreed a definition of domestic abuse. we've been doing some work with the national criminaljustice board where we've been looking at a study of what works in domestic abuse cases and what doesn't, and it is... to some extent it's not rocket science. some of it's around making sure that cases are dealt with very quickly so sometimes we still see delays are such that people disengage with the process because they want to get on with their lives or their relationship may have resumed, making sure that they have the support that they need so things like independent domestic violence advisers, making sure that we get the cases to specialist courts that understand some of the issues, so we know that in some of the magistrates‘ courts where they have timescales on them were you get to trial within six weeks, that helps and that works.
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knowing that officers have got body—worn video that actually captures notjust the defendant but sometimes the complainant, the victim as well. we prosecuted a case not long ago where i think it was a daughter called the police. there was a violent domestic incident. the victim was in the street bleeding from her injuries. she didn't want to give a statement to the police, the daughter didn't want to, two officers, one was able to capture the defendant who made some incriminating comments on the video and one which was able to capture the demeanour and the sort of injuries to the victim. that and the 999 call we were able to use so we didn't have to rely on the victim and we obtained a conviction in that case. so we are learning more as we go
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along about the sorts of things that we might use in order to get that before the court, so there's lots that we can do which don't necessarily need legislation, but there may be legislative things as well that would be useful. alison saunders. peers have been told that tighter rules on the use of airborne drones are to be brought in next year. near miss incidents involving aircraft and drones are monitored by the uk airprox board. there were 70 airprox reports involving drones coming too close to aircraft over the uk in 2016 — more than double the number for 2015. following the public consultation on this injuly, i can confirm that the government does intend to bring forward legislation with regard to drones. as set out by my predecessor, we hope to bring legislation forward as soon as possible next year including an amendment to the air navigation order 2016. i will be setting out further details on the content and timing of this legislation in the coming weeks.
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my lords, there are hundreds of thousands of drones now in operation and there were over 50 near misses reported this year alone on aircraft. is the noble baroness and minister aware of the research by the british airline pilots association which shows the risks and dangers of serious accidents as a result of a drone strike and does the minister accept that the government needs to develop a much greater sense of urgency in dealing with this serious problem that will lead to an accident if it is not controlled? my lords, i am indeed aware of the evidence put forward on the danger of drones that they can cause to aircraft and helicopters. i do understand the need to move on this and we are taking action. since the consultation response, we have been assessing the best way
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to implement the legislation which will include the registration of drones and leisure pilot tests. we are engaging internationally on developing the best practice for drone rules and we are reviewing and exploring the other possible policies that we set out for further consideration. can i ask, what is the government's current assessment of the possibility of a drone being involved in a major incident resulting in loss of life or serious injuries? is the possibility of such a major incident becoming more or less likely as each day passes? my lords, i am aware that the expectation of an incident is high. of course, there hasn't been a significant incident yet, but obviously more drones are being sold every day and so we are very clear on the need to take action on this. we will be setting out as soon as we can the legislation and, as i say, in the next couple of weeks, i will be able to write to the noble lords and
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update them on this. who is going to catch the perpetrators of people flying drones illegally and what are they going to do about it and how and what kind of penalties could there be? there are so many flying around today, who is going to identify and catch them? i'm sure your lordships will understand that it is sometimes a challenge to link an operator to a drone. we are trying to help address this by bringing forward a registration system and we are also investigating electronic identification. for the legislation, we are looking at powers for the police to require the production of the registration id and documents for drone users. also that they will be able to require a drone user to land their drone and also to search for and seize a drone when there is reasonable belief that a crime has taken place and we very much hope that this will enable police to capture people who are misusing drones. can i understand that this legislation will cover other illegal uses of drones such as the reports of drones being used to take illicit drugs into prisons? my lords, we will be looking
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to expand these powders in the bill. i'm aware of course of the issue of smuggling illegal substances into prisons. they are working with hm prison information service to ensure that they are analysing drone use and acting upon it. and that's it from me for now, but do join me at the same time tomorrow for a round up of what promises to be a busy day at westminster. at midday, it's prime minister's questions when theresa may will once again face jeremy corbyn across the despatch box and immediately after that, the chancellor philip hammond will deliver his latest budget. but for now, from me, alicia mccarthy, goodbye. hello there. we have heavy rain, gales, even some snow, all in the forecast for the next few days. the coldest air is still
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waiting in the wings. we have several areas of low pressure all pushing up from the south—west, bringing these weather fronts, and in turn bringing rain. so, having seen the rain ease off overnight, it's going to be turning wetter by the morning. mild to the south, some colder air perhaps beginning to arrive in the north of the uk. let's head into the morning, for the rush hour, and for much of southern england, it well may be dry. midlands, east anglia too. windy by the morning, a very mild side to the day, too. then we're back into the rain across wales, especially wet to the north—west of wales. some rain for the north of england, the north—west in particular. and this rain in ireland could become heavy and begin to arrive in the south—west and south of scotland. then we've got a slice of drier weather before we're back into something a bit wetter in the far north of scotland. this main area of rain could be as much as 100mm of rain falling by the end of the day over
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the hills, south—west scotland, cumbria, and north—west wales. and ahead of that, across much of england and wales, it will be windy. strong to perhaps gale—force winds, very mild air, especially if you get the sunshine in the south—east and east anglia. could be some rain and cold air across the north of scotland. this rain still around in the evening, with strong winds. some squally rain sweeping eastwards across england and wales. poor day in the rain, and cold air across scotland. squally rain sweeping east. then in the cold air, we start to see some snow falling overnight in scotland, particularly northern parts of scotland. further south, much milder, but still windy. the winds do ease down on thursday, and that snow continues for a while, even to some lower levels in northern scotland, too, before easing down through the day. we're seeing some bands of showers pushing their way southwards, but there'll still be some sunshine in between. still pretty mild, actually, across the south and south—east, 13 or 1a degrees. much colder, though, not just for scotland, but also for northern ireland and the north of england, too. now, heading into friday, a lot of uncertainty about the position of this area of low pressure.
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this is probably the last of those low—pressure centres moving up from the south—west. the rain more likely across southern england for a while on friday. and this could be the last of the milder air, if you like, because colder air that's in the north and north—west will come sweeping its way southwards just in time for the weekend. now, you may well be dry for much of the weekend. there'll be some sunshine, too. but we are going to find some showers, particularly in the north—west of the uk, and those showers notjust of rain, but possibly of hail, sleet, and snow. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories: tens of thousands on the streets of zimbabwe as robert mugabe resigns as president. his ousted vice—president is set to succeed him. the surprise resignation was made by letter, just as proceedings to impeach him were getting started in parliament. we're here right at the moment that they've heard that robert mugabe has resigned
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from the presidency. and you can hear it from zanu—pf mps, from opposition mps, from members of the public who've come here to witness what's happening. for many people, president mugabe is the only leader they've ever known, his iron grip on power finally swept aside. as almost four decades of rule come to an end we hear

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