hello. it's wedneday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. if you voted to leave the eu, what do you think of the size of the divorce bill to get out of the european union? it's reported the uk cld pay between a0 and 55 billion euros to cover its liabilities, after the government upped the figure. a deal on the brexit bill seems imminent. tell us what you think of the figure. who do you blame? and do you recall the leave campaign telling you it would be this sort of amount to get out of the eu? asylum seekers are facing a "lottery" depending on where their appeal is heard according to research seen by this programme and some are being forced to represent themselves in complex cases. why is it acceptable that someone faces removal from this country, quite possibly to persecution or death with no legal representative? it is not acceptable. we will bring you our exclusive

report. and nominated for best newcomer at tonight's mobo award. we'll talk to london—born rapper young bane. hello. welcome to the programme, we're live until ”am this morning. if you voted for brexit, let us know if this bill for billions of pounds — our so—called divorce settlement — is a price worth paying to leave the eu? and what about the size of the bill? who set that out clearly during the campaign ahead of the eu referendum? we would love to talk to some of you on the programme. you can e—mail me or send me a message on twitter. if you are texting you will be charged and

there is facebook and whatsapp. our top story today, the bbc understands that the government has offered the european union between a0 and 55 billion euros, as the financial settlement to withdraw from the eu. it's become known as the brexit divorce bill, and has been one of the main sticking points in the negotiations. previously, theresa may has suggested that the uk was willing to pay 20 billion euros, but there have been calls from brussels for that to be increased. norman is at westminster. so they have upped the figure. and what an enormous sum of money. it's going up and up and up. we started off during the referendum campaign being told we would be quids in. it would be brussels giving us money back. £350 million net for the nhs. then we had mrs may in her florence speech just a few months ago saying actually, we will give you maybe around 20 billion euros. now, all the indications are we could be paying

in the 40s. we don't have a specific figure, vast amounts of speculation in some of the papers. here we have the guardian, uk faces £50 billion divorce bill. similar story in the times. britain to pay eu bill for decades. that's because we may not know the final sum that we're going to pay for many, many years to come and the reason for that is we're not going to hand over a wadge of cash and say, "here you are, here is £40 billion." this will be a sum assessed every year looking at our liabilities every year and may not be paid off until really many, many yea rs' be paid off until really many, many years' time. so calculating the final figure years' time. so calculating the finalfigure may be years' time. so calculating the final figure may be extremely hard. haven't been helped this morning by the good people of brussels, we had michel barnier arriving for work, saying pretty much ziltho. have a listen. reporter: do you welcome britain's decision to pay more? we keep

working. i thought that was almost a shrug of the shoulder. what of folk here? well, you might expect brexiteers to be angry at the amount we are thinking of giving to brussels. they are, whether they are going to kick up are, whether they are going to kick up over it is another thing altogether. they seem to suspect that it altogether. they seem to suspect thatitis altogether. they seem to suspect that it is brussels that has put this figure out here to try and bounce mrs may into accepting it. in other words, it is a crafty ploy to get mrs may to up the stakes. 0thers are pointing the finger of blame at mrs may's chief negotiator, 0liver robins saying he has been rolled over by the eurocrats. you listen to chris grayling, transport secretary and prominent brexiteer. he said the priority has to be trying to leave the eu on good terms. priority has to be trying to leave the eu on good termslj priority has to be trying to leave the eu on good terms. i don't think it isa the eu on good terms. i don't think it is a question of putting figures on it at this moment in time, we said we will fulfil our obligations.

it is right and proper over a 40 year of membership you do build up liabilities. we want to walk away with good relation and remain good friends and neighbours of the european union. of course, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, but we accept there are obligations we built up and we will meet them as the prime minister said. so what can we day for definite? well, one, we are going to end up paying a lot more than the 20 billion euros that mrs may flagged up billion euros that mrs may flagged upa billion euros that mrs may flagged up a couple of months ago in florence. two, we do seem to be inching towards a deal at the crucial december summit. when you look at the mood music surrounding this summit compared to the one in 0ctober where we were told you have not done enough, you can't move on to trade talks, this time there is a different feel and i think there is almost an expectation, perhaps not quite, that we will get the green light to move on to those crucial trade talks. thank you very much, norman.

some messages from you on that, ben anderson says, "anyone who voted leave should be hiding under a rock. it's shameful." ministry of matt says, "i would like you to explain what the £40 billion is for. 0therwise what the £40 billion is for. otherwise you are pushing the lie that it's a ransom." we will do that. don't worry. we will talk more about this through the programme. let me know your views whether you voted leave or remain. what do you think of the size of the amount that's being talked about? do you wa nt to that's being talked about? do you want to be told the specific figure ora want to be told the specific figure or a more specific figure rather than the sum between 40 and 55 billion euros? is it worth paying that money to leave the european union? many of you will think it is. let me know your views. we would love to talk to you on the programme. now the news with anita. north korea has carried out another ballistic missile test — its first for two months. pyongyang says the missile which landed injapanese waters is a new type of weapon and its most powerful yet. experts believe that north korea has demonstrated for the first time that it could now hit most

of the american mainland. president donald trump was briefed while the missile was still in the air. thank you very much. as you probably have heard, and some of you have reported, a missile was launched a little while ago from north korea. i will only tell you that we'll take care of it. we have general mattis in the room with us, and we had a long discussion on it. it's a situation that we will handle. a 15—year—old boy has been charged with causing the deaths by dangerous driving of three children and two men who died in a collision in leeds on saturday. the teenager is due to appear at leeds magistrates' court this morning. all five victims were in the car when it crashed. the youngest were brothers aged 12 and i4. police have appealed for information. lawyers for a man found guilty of murdering a mother and daughter in kent in 1996 say they'll release

significant new evidence today that casts doubt on his conviction. lyn russell and her six—year—old daughter, megan, were attacked as they walked along a quiet country lane near the village of chillenden, south east of canterbury. although there was no forensic evidence linking him to the crime, michael stone was convicted, largely on the strength of a disputed confession to another prisoner. 0ur correspondent wyre davies has this report. it was a notorious murder. a brutal, unprovoked attack in the kent countryside, on a family walking home from a school swimming gala. 45—year—old lin russell and her six—year—old daughter, megan, were killed in the frenzied hammer attack. but nine—year—old josie survived, despite suffering terrible injuries. michael stone, a known criminal and drug addict, was arrested a year later in 1997 and found guilty of the russell murders. he's serving a life sentence, but has always

protested his innocence. there's no forensic evidence against stone and he was convicted on a disputed confession to a fellow prisoner and stone's legal team say they now have compelling, new evidence linking this man, levi bellfield, to the russell murders. the killer of schoolgirl millie dowler, amelie delagrange and marsha mcdonnell is serving two full life terms and many say bellfield has committed dozens of similar serious crimes. the similarities you've got are, a woman, a blitz attack with something heavy like a hammer. just those features make it an extremely rare crime. i think in the absence of other facts, he would be a good suspect. two decades after the appalling russell murders, lawyers for the man convicted of the killings will today release new evidence that the bbc has seen and which they say means his case must now go to the court of appeal. the government is considering breaking up two of the country's

biggest train operators as part of a new rail strategy. the franchises are great western and gtr, which combines southern, thameslink and great northern. ministers are also exploring the possibility that some of the lines closed during the 1960s could be re—opened. they say new rail lines can unlock jobs, encourage house building and ease overcrowding on the existing network. apple says it is working to fix a serious bug in its most recent mac operating system. the flaw in the high sierra software makes it possible to access a mac computer or laptop without a password and gain powerful administrator rights. a restored white fiat, crowd —funded by residents in a town in poland, has finally arrived in the us, destined for the actor tom hanks, as a birthday present. one of his fans, monica jaskolska, who is from the town where the classic car was made in the 1970s, noticed the star's enthusiasm for the model and decided to raise money to send him one. the car was shown off at a party

for the star's birthday injuly, with money left over going to the local hospital. i hope he appreciates it. i'm sure he will. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30am. pete wood says, "i voted leave, but if it costs more to leave than remain, iam prepared if it costs more to leave than remain, i am prepared to admit i was wrong." lj remain, i am prepared to admit i was wrong." l] says, "it is a joke they are demand ago ludicrous sum of money. i'm not convinced that walking away would be so bad now and we can use the money to rebuild." someone has replied to her who says, "how do you know this isn't a ludicrous amount of money?" a good question. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. hugh is here. ben stokes has landed down under. what chance of him

getting involved in the ashes?m down under. what chance of him getting involved in the ashes? it is a slim chance. we will see how things go with ben stokes over the coming weeks. the first ashes test didn't go well, a ten wicket defeat in brisbane. you imagine england will need all the help they can, but will need all the help they can, but will ben stokes be coming to their rescue. he has got closer to his team—mates in australia. he is under investigation following that incident outside a bristol night clubleg. the ecb allowed him to play in new zealand this weekend. he was flown out and greeted by his parents as he arrived in christchurch overnight and it sparked plenty of back page stories that stokes could be nearing an england return. he was missed in the defeat at the gabba. police haven't indicated when the investigations could conclude. stokes hasn't been charged with any offence. plenty of the fans on social media are begging the ecb to bring him back, but andrew strauss says they have no idea when there will be an outcome. their procedure

means within 48 hours of a decision they could have stokes back in their tea m they could have stokes back in their team and that would be very welcome with an already crucial second test toll come in the early hours of saturday morning. lots of midweek premier league action. tell us about tottenham in particular? well, spurs have been lauded for a highly, haven't they? the likes of dele alli and harry cane. they had the fanfare tassic win in the champions league and they topped the group stage, but they may have hit a stumbling block, they may have hit a stumbling block, the one thing his manager and team are missing is a trophy. it doesn't look like it will be the premier league because it isjust look like it will be the premier league because it is just four points from the last 15 available for them. they were beaten 2—1 last night at leicester. the manager says his team must improve. they could be 16 points

behind manchester city if they win tonight. jose mourinho, well, he wasn't pleased with his players despite manchester united's 4—2 win at watford. ashley young helped put them 3—0 up before two late watford goals made for a late finish. jose mourinho said his team should have been smoking cigars! managerless west brom missed out on their first managerless west brom missed out on theirfirst premier managerless west brom missed out on their first premier league win since august. they gave away a two goal lead to draw 2—2 with newcastle. johnny evans' own goal making that harder to take. england's women played last night. are they any closer to finding a replacement for their coach who was sacked, mark sampson? well, interviews for his replacement will take place next monday. their interim head coach has given her case a boost. it is two wins and one lose in her three games in charge. inspired by chelsea' fran kirby. mel lawlel scored a goal.

england turned it on after the break. they scored four goals in 12 minutes. substitute kirby grabbing a penalty. england have a game in hand over the group a leaders wales. northern ireland beat slovakia 3—1 in theirgroup. it northern ireland beat slovakia 3—1 in their group. it should be a good qualifying campaign in that group for england and wales. more from hugh throughout the morning. it's 9:15am. figures seen by this programme suggest that some hearing centres are twice as likely as others to allow asylum seekers to remain in uk. 0ne immigration case worker has told us the situation is so severe that some lawyers have lied about the address of their client to get their case heard at a different location. the shadow attorney general shami chakrabarti says the stats are very upsetting and called for an investigation

by the government. catrin nye has this exclusive report. catrin nye has this exclusive report. they would arrive in court, and they literally do have supermarket plastic bags stuffed with papers. that is completely unacceptable in a humane democracy. well, i do know of cases where people have lied about their address. it's not a measure that ought to be the norm in the way that we operate, in the way that we run our judicial system. the government has a responsibility to investigate. what do you do with your days while you're waiting? i go out to the seaside, walk. i like to be alone most of the time. mohammed is 21, and has been in the uk for four years. he lives in portsmouth, and is seeking asylum here because he says he was forced

to flee his home in homs in syria. his initial asylum claim failed, and so did his appeal. i didn't feel like somebody support me, you know? for example, the solicitor, she doesn't do her proper work for this case. the court was as well unfair with me. mohammed says he has not had a lawyerfully engage in his case at any stage in the asylum process so far. at his appeal hearing, he met his appeal representative just half an hour before the hearing. she said i didn't have time to read it before, because i didn't get there. we went, and after i get there, we were after just called.

when i came here, there was one man from the home office, he said to me, you've come to the right place. and now you get all your human rights and everything. and to now i didn't feel like i get any one of my rights of life. mohammed now has a new legal rep, laura smith, and is putting in a fresh claim for asylum. and looking at the evidence, why do you think he's failed in the past? probably a whole group of reasons. luck and getting a bad judge and not having someone who fought the case sufficiently for him. there were mistakes which the home office made, where they said that he'd answered questions wrongly about syria, where he'd answered them correctly. that was never picked up by his lawyers, and that was never picked up by the judge, despite it being just a simple issue that could have been clarified very quickly. we've been investigating the results

of asylum appeals across the uk, and through freedom of information requests to the ministry ofjustice, have found big variations in the number of successful appeals depending on which hearing centre they're at. just a quick scan down this list shows you huge differences in results over four years. taking two centres that handle lots of cases, both in london, at harmondsworth 24% of appeals were successful. taylor house, it was 47%. and the variations exist across the whole uk. newport, 44% successful. yarl‘s wood in bedfordshire, 21%. bradford, 41. glasgow, 28. we've removed the now unlawful fast—track appeals from this dataset, so you are now comparing a like—for—like

process across the uk. for this investigation, we've spoken to more than 20 people that work in asylum to help us interpret the data. lawyers, academics, judges and charities. we can't give one single reason for this massive variation, but access to good legal representation and a differing culture at different hearing centres are the two things that come up again and again. we also know from one further freedom of information request that the centres with the lowest numbers of appeals allowed also have high numbers of people with no legal representation at all. katrina jarvis is a former asylum tribunal judge. she says she's seen many people turn up their hearing with nothing more than a pile of documents. they would arrive in court, and they literally do have

supermarket plastic bags stuffed with papers. and they come and sit in court and put them on the desk in front of them and look at you. and then to try to piece together what kind of a case person might have and what it is that they want to do. do they want me to try and hear their case now? do they want to go away and get a lawyer? have they got a lawyer who's not there? have you helped people as a judge in a way that others may not? i've on many occasions helped, i hope, people are pointed them in the right direction, either in the course of a hearing that then continued, or through perhaps adjourning and finding a lawyer. whereas another judge might just, say, not allow their appeal? they might, or they might decide not to adjourn and proceed with the hearing even though there wasn't a lawyer there.

there are different approaches. mohammed's legal representative, laura, believes that there are significant differences in the attitudes ofjudges depending on where a case is heard. so this is an example of a case that was originally heard at harmondsworth, where we received a very bad decision. we returned to taylor house with almost exactly the same evidence, and the appeal was allowed. and you think that was about the judge at a different centre? i would say those two decisions are quite representative of the contrast between the two hearing centres. so you've seen our statistics which show this massive variation in results. do they surprise you? i'm sadly not surprised at all. it's the kind of arbitrary decision—making which i see across the systems all the time, that two meritorious cases can have completely different results based on different judges and different hearing centres.

and i think most lawyers, all lawyers in our field would tell you that they would much rather have their hearing at taylor house than at harmondsworth or hatton cross. and do you try and make sure your hearings are there? um, i have done. if someone is able to move so they can live near taylor house and their hearing will be heard there, i would tell them that that was definitely worth it for them, because unfortunately, i think the system is unfair, and you have to try and achieve fairness of the client if you can. how far do you see lawyers go to get their clients into places where the results are better, they are more likely to get asylum? well, i do know of cases where people have lied about their address so that they would be in the taylor house district and have the

hearings heard there. is that an acceptable thing to do? no, that's not acceptable. but if someone can move to live in the area, i think that would be acceptable. we've been told that lawyers are lying in order to get their clients seen at hearing centres with more favourable results. make up an address. well, that's very shocking, and i'm saddened to hear that, if that's so. and something should be done about it. which elements do you think is shocking, then, the lying or the fact that they feel they to do that? well, both are shocking. both are shocking. it's not a measure that ought to be a norm in the way that we operate and the way that we run ourjudicial system. it's wholly wrong. it shouldn't be a lottery. as part of our investigation, we also looked at whether weaker

asylum cases or people from specific countries are said to particular countries are sent to particular geographical areas. but despite the home office failing to tell us exactly how it disperses people, it doesn't seem people are allocated to an area in this manner. some of the lowest results do appear at hearing centres near immigration detention centres, where we know it can be very difficult to get legal representation. i think these statistics are very upsetting. this suggestion that there are advice deserts and legal aid deserts for people in different parts of the country means people are going into asylum appeals unrepresented. that is completely unacceptable in a humane democracy. do you think it could be that the cases where there are no legal representation are just simply weaker? i don't think you can put down these levels of disparity to coincidence, or to weak cases.

there is no reason why cases would be weaker in one part of the country compared to another. what do you think needs to be done about the statistics? firstly, i think that yours has been an excellent journalistic investigation, but the government has a responsibility to investigate further. why so many successful appeals across the country, and why such disparity in different parts of the country? it is the responsibility of government, notjust the home office but particularly thejustice department in this instance, to investigate. no—one should ever go into an asylum appeal unrepresented. you wouldn't dream of sending someone into the crown court in a criminal case unrepresented, quite possibly to lose their liberty. why is it acceptable that someone faces removal from this country, quite possibly to persecution or death, with no legal representative? it's just not acceptable. in portsmouth, mohammed's hopeful that he will secure asylum

in the uk, but he's already been here four years, and he says he doesn't let himself think about the future, any future, any more. maybe they have to say, for example, you have to go back to your country, and everything gone. i don't feel like i've gone up, always i've gone down in my life. well, the ministry ofjustice — mentioned in catrin's report — haven't commented on the story. but thejudicial 0ffice which supports judges in courts in england and wales told us that: "alljudges consider each case individually based on the relevant facts and the law. there may be a number of complex factors that explain why there is a variation of outcomes at different hearing centres butjudges will always deal with each case fairly and based on the merits. immigrationjudges are deployed across the various hearing centres and do not sit solely in any single one" a major security flaw has been

discovered in apple's latest operating system. here to explain more is our technology correspondent rory cellan—jones. what's going on? this is about the latest operating system on apple computers, the mac. somebody has discovered the most ridiculous bug that you heard of it is embarrassing. you simply type in a word root, tap a couple of times and you are in as another user and you can do all sorts of things with the computer. it's inherent on you having your hands on somebody‘s computer. somebody who may have left it alone for a while. but it's a pretty serious bug. interestingly, it was exposed by the turkish security research it most recently. usually security research as you go

looking for this dunn these books informed the company before informing the world. he didn't do that. he popped up a couple of weeks ago on a support forum. somebody actually noticed this and put it out there as a way of getting around some other issue people were having. quite innocently and i love it. this person on november 13 explained how you can do this to sort out some other issues. a few days later on the same forum, somebody else says, oh, my god, that should not work but it does. this is really, really bad. how long for apple to sort it? they are rushing out an update pretty soon. probably within a few hours. but it's a pretty embarrassing bug not to have found. not to have noticed when they updated the system. thanks very much. still to come: progress in the fight against malaria appears to have stalled with incidents of the disease rising in some areas. we'll be looking into the reason why. finally some movement in brexit negotiations as uk increase their "divorce settlement"

offer to around £44 billion. they increase in from anywhere from 40 to 55 billion. we'll be finding out out what brexiteers think of the new offer. whether you voted to leave or remain, let us no. time for the latest news, here's annita. the bbc news headlines this morning. the bbc understands that the government has offered the european union between £40 and £49 billion in the financial settlement as britain withdraws from the eu. downing street has rejected no figure was agreed. the transport secretary, chris grayling, told the bbc that the uk would "meet our obligations". north korea has carried out another ballistic missile test — its first for two months.

pyongyang says the missile which landed injapanese waters is a new type of weapon and its most powerful yet. experts believe that north korea has demonstrated for the first time that it could now hit most of the american mainland. president donald trump was briefed while the missile was still in the air. a 15—year—old boy has been charged with causing the deaths by dangerous driving of three children and two men who died in a collision in leeds on saturday. the teenager is due to appear at leeds magistrates' court this morning. all five victims were in the car when it crashed — the youngest were brothers, aged 12 and 14. police have appealed for information. lawyers for michael stone, the man found guilty of murdering a mother and daughter in kent in 1996, say they'll release significant new evidence today that casts doubt on his conviction. lin russell and her six—year—old daughter, megan, were attacked as they walked along a quiet country lane near the village of chillenden, south east of canterbury. children with autism in england are being let down by the education system, according to a report by the all party parliamentary group for autism, seen by the bbc. nearly three in four parents said

they waited more than six months for the support their child is entitled to, while half said they waited more than a year. the department for education says "all schools have a duty to support children with special educational needs". it says it's given councils £223 million in extra funding to introduce reforms. apple says it's working to fix a serious bug in its most recent mac operating system. the flaw in the high sierra software makes it possible to access a mac computer or laptop without a password, and gain powerful administrator rights. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. some comments from you on the brexit divorce bill. the latest figures reported today anywhere between 40 and 55 billion euros. gary says, "i am all for brexit, but being held to ransom is a no, no." alistair says, "the eu has been ripping off the uk

for years. no surprise they are doing it now." max says, "i voted leave and i was lied to." we will talk to some of you on the programme later. if you voted in the eu referendum, whatever you voted, we would like your views on the latest figures that britain looks like it will have to pay to leave the eu and in orderfor the will have to pay to leave the eu and in order for the negotiations to move to talk about a trade deal. hugh is back. he has got the sport. ben stokes has flown into christchurch with the prospect of playing club cricket in new zealand. he had his england kitbag in toe as well. in football, manchester united boss jose mourinho well. in football, manchester united bossjose mourinho was unhappy with his team's wastefulness saying they should have been five or six up. they were 3—0 at half—time. it is four points from their last five games for tottenham. they were

beaten by leicester city. the spurs boss said he's disappointed and frustrated. and england's women made it three wins from three in world cup qualifying with a 5—0 thrashing of kazakhstan, there were wins for wales and northern ireland. that's all the sport for now. i will have more after 10am. thank you very much, hugh. coercive control is a type of domestic abuse that can have a devastating psychological affect on those impacted. it's a non—violent form of control which is used to frighten and dominate a partner — whether male or female. it was made illegal at the end of 2015 and is punishable by up to five years in prison. nearly two years after the law was introduced, police figures show more people are being arrested on suspicion of coercive and controlling behaviour, but only one in six are charged with the offence. why? we can speak now to lisa—marie flavin who says experienced coercive control at the hands of her ex—partner. emma pearmaine is a family lawyer and campaigner for survivors of domestic abuse.

david tucker, head of the crime and criminal justice faculty at the college of policing. welcome all of you. thank you very much for coming on the programme. lisa—marie, thank you for talking to us. i wonder if you can explain to our audience what it feels like to be in our audience what it feels like to beina our audience what it feels like to be in a relationship with someone who controls you? coercive controlling behaviour is the foundation for every type of abuse, let's be real about this, to be controlled and abused it leads on to other types of abuse. it makes you feel, i mean, you're at the power of somebody else. it is a slow trickle ofa somebody else. it is a slow trickle of a process to be controlled and coerced by someone. it happens very slowly. but then the magnitude of what it can do to them, the impact on your mental health is extreme. how did it begin with your ex then? it began very slowly. it was difficult for me to see friends. it

would come in an argument. i would make plans and then he would be like, "don't go, stay with me." that turned into then if you loved me, you wouldn't go. you don't need friends you've got me. and then it turned into, he would destroy my mobile phones, pull them out of the wall, i was in the bath one time and he threw my phone in the bath. i wouldn't have contact with the outside world. facebook became impossible. he would question eve ryo ne impossible. he would question everyone that i knew on there. you know, and then it went on to things like, you know, iwould know, and then it went on to things like, you know, i would leave and i would go to stay with family. he slashed the roof of my car, i now know and he made out somebody did it in my family's home so i wasn't safe to be with my family. i had to go back home to him, you know? yes. some people will think that it can't, however distressing that, and it is, because you become powerless in the end, will still think can can't be as traumatic as being

physically beaten up. what would you say to them? it is. at the time i didn't realise what was happening to me. that sounds insane. i don't see myself as unintelligent. you don't realise you are being abused. you know the real them. they have got a good heart. you know, they havejust got a few issues and anger. you know, i realised i was depressed long before i realised i was being abused. it has a detrimental impact on your mental health. how did that ma nifest on your mental health. how did that manifest itself in you? you know, i have always been a bubbly, social person, happy go lucky. i was trying to hide the abuse, you know, you would say things, "don't tell people our business." it is between me and you. he would gas light, we would, something would happen the night before and the next day, "that was nothing, you were being too sensitive." i went from this bubbly character to a shell, an absolute sheu character to a shell, an absolute shell of my former self. i didn't wa nt to

shell of my former self. i didn't want to go out. it wasn't worth the hassle. i was so afraid. i was caught in the cycle of abuse being bombarded with love and bombarded with hate and abuse. i was frightened. you're trapped in this world just you and this person and it is amazing how it takes a grip on you. you have described it so, so eloquently. i know your ex—partner was charged with coercive behaviour. how important to you was it that the police were able to understand and recognise the controlling behaviour that you say had gone on?|j recognise the controlling behaviour that you say had gone on? i mean because this is a relatively new legislation. it came out in december 2015. the local police that dealt with my case unfortunately hadn't been trained in coercive control. i know it is looking to change which is necessary. i was lucky. i was made aware of the law by some friends of mine who are in a different police force and it was

just, you know, when i read about coercive control, everything just rang true. yes. everything he was doing to me, it wasjust rang true. yes. everything he was doing to me, it was just wow, rang true. yes. everything he was doing to me, it wasjust wow, this is happening to me. there is a name for what's happening to me. i'm going to bring in emma. you've done a freedom of information request to every police force in england to compile the figures on arrests and charges for coercive control in the first 18 months of this new legislation and there is a lot of variation. in some areas, more than a third of arrests result in charges. in others, it's much, much smaller percentage. why do you think there is that variation?|j think there is that variation?” think there is that variation?” think there are a number of issues actually. i am involved with the domestic violence charity and we have been invited to a number of police forces to deliver training on coercive control. and that's been very useful for the police officers involved. i am assured by all police forces that they are taking training forces that they are taking training for their front line officers very seriously and they are delivering training and!

seriously and they are delivering training and i think we can see from the difference in the number of arrests made in the first—half of 2016, to the number of arrests made in the first—half of 2017 that police officers are now very much more aware of the issues of coercive control and much more able to recognise it. yet only one in six of those arrests leads to a charge? still only one in six. why might be the case? well, there are very challenging evidential issues that the police and the crown prosecution service have to deal with and we have to accept that. there has to be an element of repeated behaviour. there has to be evidenced. it has to be seen that the victim has experienced fear and adapted their behaviour as a result. and we also have to be able to see that the perpetrator or alleged perpetrator knew effectively that their behaviours would result in the victim feeling fear and actually that's a very difficult thing to prove. very difficult. i mean, you

know, lisa—marie talked about her mobile phone being smashed or chucked into the bath or the top of her car being slashed, you know, you can see the physical outcome of that happening, but don't go on facebook, don't go out, don't talk to them, that's much harder to prove, isn't it, david? yes, it is and policing, of course, was set—up and over decades has dealt with the man if hes tations of issues so the damage to caror hes tations of issues so the damage to car or the damage to mobile phones. we are asking police office rs phones. we are asking police officers to understand more about the incident that they are dealing with and that's quite a change in culture particularly for front line office rs culture particularly for front line officers so we are hearing that training is taking place and there is training that the college of policing is doing. made available for so they don't have to do it? we set the standards around training and we make training available and forces can either use our products or use their own. very often it is an appropriate thing for the forces

to use their own training products because they might have their own structures in police locally, we work with the college of policing to make sure that the messages around coercive controlling behaviour gets out. do you link the number of arrests that leads to a charge in coercive control with training? can we make that link? it is important to see that this is notjust a policing issue. theres a whole syste m policing issue. theres a whole system that works together. so we work very closely with the national policing lead, but we work with the inspectorate of constabulary and the home office and the ministry of justice and so on and with the crown prosecution service. and what we have to do is that the policing job is to collect the evidence. we then present that to the cps and the crown prosecution service will make a decision about whether a case can go forward and whether the evidence is there and there are changes...” know. i understand that. most people watching understand you collect the

evidence and you put it forward to the cps and they decide if a charge goes forward or is brought. my question is maybe emma, you can help me here. are you seeing in the data that you've looked at, there are more arrests leading to charges in areas where the police have taken up the training? yes, we are. we recognise it in terms of the clients that we represent, day in and day out across the country as family lawyers and i see it in my role working with the corporate alliance against domestic violence and the courses where we are invited to give training, we can see the statistics are positive and they are increasing in terms of the number of arrests and actually there is a very small increase in terms of the number of charges. the college of policing has a product that we deliver with a numberof a product that we deliver with a number of charities and we have evaluated that and looked at the impact and we know that that

training has an impact on the attitudes and the learning of the individuals. what we haven't, what we can't prove is that you can then see a change in the number of arrests and the number of charges because that would require a much longer study. fair enough. they are really interesting the figures. data from 35 police forces in england show that in the first 18 months of the new law, there were 4,000 arrests for coercive control, but only 17% were charged with the offence. by comparison, a decision to charge was made for 70% of domestic abuse related cases referred to the cps. it is just interesting to compare at this stage. lisa machine marie, i know you wrote a very moving impact statement after your case went to court. tell our audience what you told thejudge? court. tell our audience what you told the judge? you court. tell our audience what you told thejudge? you broke up then, what did you say? tell our audience about the impact statement you gave

to the court. i sort of addressed the judge, the barristers. i know there's a lot of good work going on down at the ground level with coercive control, people need to be educated, nope it's the law. but if the people at the top, thejudges, the court, don't recognise the serious of this type of abuse, everything else on the ground is fruitless. we need to raise awareness. i the ground is fruitless. we need to raise awareness. i also addressed the perpetrator in court. i addressed that the outcome did not affect what had happened between us. we knew the truth. i have a catalogue of evidence, eyewitness testimonies, you know, voice recordings. it really needs to be taken more seriously. to read it out in court was empowering. that's it, good to hear. this tweet, well done

to lisa — marie. so brave to talk so openly about coercive behaviour. being in control becomes your new —— being under control becomes your new normal and you don't realise what's going on. so consumed and it's a scary cycle of abuse. what advice would you give to anyone watching right now who is hearing you describe this this morning, lisa—maria and saying, hang on, i might be in a similar situation. lets not forget, no human being has a right to control another. not under any circumstances. nobody should live in fear of somebody we love. when it's the two of you in a relationship or a family, it can become the norm, this sort of behaviour, but it's not a healthy relationship. nobody has a right to control another. seek advice. relationship. nobody has a right to controlanother. seek advice. i relationship. nobody has a right to control another. seek advice. i was silenced by fear and abuse for a long time. when i started, it was disclosing to mike colleagues and

friends, when they saw the difference, it then became clear, as time has gone on that, wow, this is a thing that's happening to me. there's a name for it. what you say? just call the police? call the police. i was lucky, i was met with some really supportive offices. obviously they didn't pick of the chorus of control but they picked up the harassment and i was lucky i had support from friends and i got to read up on coercive control. yes, reported to the police. this is a serious thing and the law is here to protect us. thank you very much, lisa—maria. —— lisa—marie experience coercive control. thank you to emma and david. thank you very much for coming on the programme. coming up: north korea has tested its most powerful ballistic missile to date — flying higher than any previous missiles. it's believed they're capable of hitting mainland america. we'll talk about that after 10am.

the fight against malaria has been one of global health‘s success stories over the past few years, but there's concern that progress to tackle this devastating disease is stalling. data from the world health organisation shows the declining trend in cases and deaths has stopped — and even reversed in some parts — over the past three years. vulnerable children and pregnant women in sub—saharan africa are the most likely victims. here are some of the facts. well, let's talk now tojo yirrell — her 21—year—old son died from malaria after visiting ghana. also professor azra ghani — a malaria specialist from imperial college london. and james whiting — the chief executive malaria no more. thank you to all of you for coming on the programme. can you explain what malaria is and how you go about treating it? malaria is a disease

caused by a parasite, transmitted by mosquitoes and is really prevalent in areas where the climate is well suited to mosquitoes, so mostly in the tropical areas. it can be quite mild disease but for some individuals it can be particularly and cause life—threatening. .. particularly those who aren't immune to the disease. in an endemic areas it will be young children who will often die from the disease. toe us how you protect from it. firstly it is actually treatable. the major challenge is for those children to access challenge is for those children to a ccess ca re challenge is for those children to access care promptly so that they receive that treatment. we have a number of other tools to try to prevent cases of malaria. one of the major ones is bug nets. those are treated with a chemical that will kill the mosquito if it comes into contact and gives direct protection. jo, contact and gives direct protection. jo, you work hard to eradicate

malaria in ghana where you are 21—year—old son was volunteering. harry went to ghana to work with children in school, with sport. he took his anti—malaria tablets with him but he didn't take them because he felt the children needed them more than he did. he thoroughly enjoyed himself, found himself, went away a boy and came back a man. we had him for ten days when he came home, but when he came home he started off with a headache and then very quickly he went downhill and we took him into hospital and he had malaria. he died within ten days. he was really strong young man. and we we re was really strong young man. and we were told he would survive. eventually his lungs gave up and he couldn't cope any more. it's a very unnecessary death. had he taken his tablets, had i understood more about

malaria, notjust tablets, had i understood more about malaria, not just heard tablets, had i understood more about malaria, notjust heard of it, i could have gone on and on at him. i would have got his treatment for him quicker. but it's shocking. losing a child is shocking. it has the heart out of you and then when you find out of you and then when you find out it's a preventable disease and its probably curable if the timing had been right, yes, it's difficult to get over. malaria no more uk have really helped me because i can talk about harry all the time and that's my about harry all the time and that's rapy. about harry all the time and that's my therapy. i'd like to get rid of this disease. it's motivating you to try. yes, and it's a monument to hurry if we can do that. his brothers can see that his death has meant something, almost. james, from malaria no more. we have this who report out today which suggests that after yea rs of progress, report out today which suggests that after years of progress, the campaign to eradicate it is stalling. yes, it's been one of the most successful global health

campaigns in history. we've saved 7 million lives since 2000. death rates are down by 60% so this is something that works. it's phenomenally good value, if you can put it that way. treatment costs about £1. nets cost £3. there's really no wait for it not to keep going. there are up to 50% of africa who still do not have bed nets that cost £3 to protect their children for the next three years. what is going wrong? why is it stalling? funding is plateauing. it kills children under five and pregnant women in some of the poorest countries in the world and i don't think there's a voice out there that saying, look, we've got to do something about it. it's the quiet, relentless killer. in the ebola crisis, more people died of malaria in those three countries than died ofa in those three countries than died of a bowler. really? nobody hears about it because itjust keeps killing and we can stop it. you say

funding has plateaued. does that because westerners think malaria has pretty much been eradicated?” because westerners think malaria has pretty much been eradicated? i think there's a real fear about complacency because you don't have that relentless drive, it's not in the news, etc. but actually the uk and us... the uk has been an absolute global leader in the campaign against malaria. the second largest donor in fight against malaria, according to the department for international development. government has been fantastic over the last decade or so and they've really put a huge effort into this because they can see the value, that this is the way to save children's lives, save pregnant women's lives. the public respond. whenever we see comic relief, we know people respond. they have the biggest response to it. it is not about the uk so much, but the uk has a chance

to see dunn do something extraordinary next year, i think. to see dunn do something extraordinary next year, i thinkm what sense? all of the commonwealth countries are coming here in april 2018. countries are coming here in april 20 18. they countries are coming here in april 2018. they represent six of the top ten countries that suffer from malaria. nine out of ten people in the commonwealth are in malarial countries. this is a chance for the uk and the commonwealth to take on the biggest, oldest killing disease. we're going to really push this through to the end. we're going to end this disease and what we could commit to is halving deaths in cases in the commonwealth in the next five years. that would be a huge thing to ta ke years. that would be a huge thing to take on. do those kind of targets motivate communities, governments? are they useful? absolutely. it is central and in those countries we work, those targets need to be visible and malaria is appreciated in those countries. they see it as

their number one health problem. the difficulty for them is they are the poorest countries in the world and they really need to depend on external financing. according to the department for international development, they say the international community needs to start —— step up along with the uk. absolutely. 800 children lost today. parents are losing children. it doesn't need to happen. theyjust need to push forward, stop stalling. everybody get on board. governments globally. eradicate the disease, it can be done. it's preventable, curable, it can be done. thanks for coming on and telling us about harry, jo and professor azra and james. thank you. it's the beginning of awards season, and first up are the uk's annual celebration of urban music — the mob0s. in the next hour we'll be speaking to yxng bane who has been nominated for best newcomer. let's get the latest weather update. it is cold. you're absolutely right,

victoria. if you think it's cold today, it's going to be even colder tomorrow. our air at the moment is coming all the way from the arctic. a real biting wind expected tomorrow and for many of us, we'll seek some wintry showers, as well. this morning started off cold and frosty and with that we have some pleasant scenes. look at thatice have some pleasant scenes. look at that ice pattern in cornwall. i guess that's on a car windscreen or a roof or something. for many, pretty cold today. wintry showers continuing across eastern areas of england. showers, not as many across northern and eastern scotland but into the afternoon there will still bea into the afternoon there will still be a few wintry flurries over the higher ground of aberdeenshire and the far north—east. temperatures are two or three degrees. for northern ireland, still a few showers scattered here, but the eastern areas of england, mainly rain showers down to low levels this

afternoon. there'll be some brighter skies in between. sadly for the midlands, wales, through much of southern and south—west england, some sunshine. still showers in pembrokeshire and towards cornwall. tonight, with clear skies for many, it'll be another cold war. colder than last night. probably the cold est than last night. probably the coldest night of the autumn so far. temperatures down to —6 or —7 in places. a widespread frost to start off on thursday morning and where you had those showers through the night, there is the risk of some ice. thursday, will have a stronger wind and a continuation of those wintry showers in eastern scotland and the eastern side of england. even down to low levels, through the morning and into the afternoon, there could be some snow here. it'll feel much colder. temperatures probably feeling more like freezing to -12 probably feeling more like freezing to —12 minus three degrees. as we go through into friday, a subtle. —— —1 to —3. you can see the air direction

changes slightly coming in for more ofa changes slightly coming in for more of a north—westerly wind. some cloudier skies across scotland and northern ireland. much of the uk, it will be dry with some sunshine. into the weekend, this mild direction of aircoming infrom the weekend, this mild direction of air coming in from the west north—west will bring theirs where the front to the south. less cold as we go through the weekend. you can see that from the air mass picture. this orange air is starting to use ina this orange air is starting to use in a little bit. while we've lost that northerly wind, we got a north—westerly wind coming in. a polarair north—westerly wind coming in. a polar air mass but much more cloud around both saturday and sunday. temperatures up to about seven to 10 degrees which is probably more like the average for the time of year. goodbye. hello. it's10am. it's wednesday. i'm victoria derbyshire. the brexit divorce bill is reported

to be between 40 and 55 billion euros. downing street said there is no deal on the amount that we are prepared to day, but a deal on the brexit divorce bill seems imminent. if you voted to leave the eu do you think this is a good deal? we'll get reaction to the new offer from leave voters. in exclusive report we reveal that asylum seekers are facing a "lottery" depending on where their appeal is heard in research seen by this programme and some are being forced to represent themselves in complex cases. able to move so they are live near taylor house and their hearing will be heard there. i will tell them that it will be worth it. the system is unfairand you that it will be worth it. the system is unfair and you have to achieve fairness for your client if you can. we'll be talking to a solicitor who has witnessed these variations in results at first—hand with his clients later in the programme. and awards season kicks off this

evening with mob0s and we'll talking to london—born rapper young bane nominated for best newcomer. here's annita in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. good morning. the bbc understands that the government has offered the european union up to 50 billion euros as a financial settlement for britain's withdrawal from the eu. downing street said no final figure had been agreed and negotiations were continuing. the transport secretary, chris grayling, told the bbc that the uk would "meet our obligations". north korea has claimed its latest ballistic missile test demonstrates it now has the capability to strike anywhere in the united states. experts say the altitude it achieved strongly indicates that if it were fired at a different angle, it could reach washington. china has urged all sides to stop actions which it said heightened tensions.

a 15—year—old boy has been charged with causing the deaths by dangerous driving of three children and two men who died in a collision in leeds on saturday. the teenager is due to appear at leeds magistrates' court this morning. all five victims were in the car when it crashed. the youngest were brothers, aged 12 and 14. police have appealed for information. the government is considering breaking up two of the country's biggest train operators as part of a new rail strategy. the franchises are great western and gtr which combines southern, thameslink and great northern. ministers are also exploring the possibility that some of the lines closed during the 1960s could be re—opened. they say new rail lines can unlock jobs, encourage house building and ease overcrowding on the existing network. asylum seekers are facing a "lottery" depending on where their appeal is heard, research by this programme has found. appeals are twice as likely to be successful at some centres compared with others, data obtained through a freedom of information request found.

lawyers for michael stone, the man found guilty of murdering a mother and daughter in kent in 1996, say they'll release significant new evidence today that casts doubt on his conviction. lin russell and her six—year—old daughter, megan, were attacked as they walked along a quiet country lane near the village of chillenden, south east of canterbury. apple says it's working to fix a serious bug in its most recent mac operating system. the flaw in the high sierra software makes it possible to access a mac computer or laptop without a password, and gain powerful administrator rights. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30am. thank you for getting in touch. tim says, "the eu should supply us with a detailed invoice, down to the last million and then we should consider paying it."

million and then we should consider paying it. " luke million and then we should consider paying it." luke says, "i voted out and still believe it was the right decision in the long run. let'sjust pay it and get on with making our digital and banking services the best in the world." and erika texts, "we shouldn't pay the eu anything until there is a full audit and financial justification for the outrageous amount being asked for." we will talk to a conservative mp who is also a leave campaigner in the next half an hour. we would like to hear from you as well. tell us your own view. the government agreeing to up the amount it pays to leave the eu. anywhere, it is reported between 40 and 50 billion euros. hugh is back. he has got the sport. could ben stokes be coming to england's rescue in the ashes? he has landed in new zealand. he has brought his kit with him. he says he

is there to visit his mum and dad. it has fuelled rumours he could be in line foran it has fuelled rumours he could be in line for an ashes appearance. the players, well they say, they are introducing a midnight curfew to avoid any issues. it stops us from being out in the early hours of the morning which is a good thing. we are here to win games of cricket. an ashes series is a huge part of anyone's career and we are here to win the series. we are not here just to ta ke win the series. we are not here just to take part. the good thing for him is he is closer to australia if the time was to come that he was to be able to come and join the squad. but we know no more than that and you know, hopefully if he can get some cricket under his belt that would be good for him having had a couple of months away from the game. tottenham have just four points from the last 15 after another defeat in the premier league. riyad mahrez put leicester on their way to a 2—1win over spurs last night. pochettino says his

team "must improve". they could be 16 points behind leaders manchester city, if they can win tonight. despite manchester united's 4—2 win at watford, jose mourinho said his team were too wasteful. a brace from ashley young helped to put them 3—0 up, before two late watford goals made for a tense finish. jesse lingard calmed nerves with a solo goal. west brom missed out on a first premier league win since august — giving away a two goal lead to draw 2—2 with newcastle at the hawthorns. jonny evans' own goal made the result even harder to take. alan pardew is set to be announced as the new man in charge at the hawthorns later today. brighton and crystal palace finished goalless. interim head coach mo marley has given her chances of a permanent role a boost, after a 5—0 victory over kazakhstan in world cup qualifying. mel lawley scored the only goal in the first half on her full debut. before england turned it on after the break scoring four goals in 12 minutes.

substitute fran kirby grabbed a penalty, before setting up nikita parris for her first and england's third. there was a process, an application process on the 17th. that's when the time was when i first did it. i agreed to put the cv in and we said we would have a look at it. i think now it is about letting the players enjoy it. hopefully the players are pleased with their own performances and we will sit down and have a look and we will sit down and have a look and see what's right for the team moving forward. england second in group 1. that's after wa les' england second in group 1. that's after wales' victory last night. a win too for northern ireland. that's all the sport for now, victoria, i will have more later in the hour. the government has offered a larger potential divorce bill to the european union. it's reported that the uk could pay up to 50 billion euros to cover its liabilities.

let's talk to our political guru norman smith in westminster. it isa it is a huge amount of money and it looks like the government will pay? we are going to pay and pay big time. it is more than the 20 billion which mrs may floated in florence. see said we will go to 20 billion. now the signs are we could go quite a way beyond that. this morning's papers, the guardian says uk faces £50 billion divorce bill. ft, britain bows to pressure on divorce bill. there is suggestions it could be between 40 to 55 billion euros. we reckon it will be in the 50s. the 55 billion figure downing street say is wrong, but we are looking at the 40 billions. why this matters this is considerably more than may said,

mrs may said in florence, but also much more than we were told in the referendum campaign or indeed just a few months ago because we had senior leave figures like borisjohnson, in the commons, just a few months ago, saying that the eu could basically go whistle if they expected any big pay—out. here is a reminder of what he said. the sums that i have seen that they propose to demand from this country seem to me extortionate and i think "to go whistle" is an entirely appropriate expression. you remember the brexiteers bus suggesting we would get £350 million a week back, now it seems we will be paying billions and billions to the eu possibly for many years to come. some here think this is the eu trying to strong—arm mrs may into

paying more money. in other words they have leaked the figures to try and bounce her into agreeing to this big sum, but this morning, michel barnier, the eu's chief negotiator, well, he wasn't giving much away. do you welcome britain's decision to pay more, mr barnier? is it enough? we are still working. still working. we are going to pay a lot more than the 20 billion floated by mrs may and we seem to be inching towards a deal at the crucial eu summit next month. cheers, norman, thank you. let's get the view from brussels and speak to our correspondent damian gramatticas. why is it so much, damien? the eu side to be very clear does not put any figure on this and they have not from the outset and that is for two reasons. one is that the politics in

the uk, they know, is very sensitive around this and the second is a very practical issue because the different components to this, stretch out over a very long time. the eu position has always been what it needs is a methodology agreed from the uk that it will pay for each of those separate components. things like annual payments going into the eu budget in the next couple of years, maybe 20 billion, outstanding payments for things that have already been committed to, that could stretch far into the future, perhaps another 20 billion, but like any big project, when you commit to something, you don't know the final exact spending and that gets worked out over time in the eu. the bill will not be clear for a bit. pensions for eu staff could be paid out in 30,40, pensions for eu staff could be paid out in 30, 40, 50 years' time. a uk share of that won't be known for many years then. that could be another say 10 billion. other loan guarantees that could fall due in yea rs guarantees that could fall due in years to come, so there are many aspects that are difficult to

quantify now, that's why the eu said what it needs is the basic calculation, the basic methodology what the uk will commit to laid out, but they are still saying as you heard from michel barnier that we are still working and they need theresa may to come here on monday to hear what she will say top them and then it has to go to the member states, the 27, who would be the ones to sign off on this. so from the eu side they still they are some way from a satisfactory resolution of this. let's talk to crispin blunt. what do you think of this bill? this bill, i trust will be contingent upon there being a free trade agreement... we will talk about that in a moment. half of the number is related to the transition period where we would continue to belong to the single market and the customs union after

we have formally left the european union in march 2019 and for the next two years which would align with the eu's own seven year budget period, we would pay in the order of another £20 billion as we are paying, exactly as we are paying now. so that would be, that's about half this figure and then as damien was explaining, there are liabilities which plainly we have. some are a moral obligation towards the pensions of civil servants of european union officials and then we'll have to see what the detail is on the other sums that look as though they are being agreed that the uk has accepted some moral obligation to. i don't remember you saying any of that during the campaign, during your campaign to leave the eu? well, no, because, you weren't talking personally to me. i

only appeared on a few shows and you will need to look at the foreign affa i rs will need to look at the foreign affairs committee report that we did in advance of the referendum when we looked at the pluses and minuses of staying and the pluses and minuses of leaving the european union. but did you say to your own constituents when you were trying to persuade them to vote to leave, this is going to cost up to 50 billion euros and these are the reasons why? this is kind of typical of how we conduct this conversation. there is plainly a negotiation going to go on now and half this sum relates to extra years bhoiles we transition out...” half this sum relates to extra years bhoiles we transition out... i know, you've already said that. all i'm asking you, when you say it is typical of how the conversation goes. did you make that clear to your constituents? well, no one would have been in a position to know what the liabilities are the assets that the united kingdom may have some long—term claim to as well

as as part of this. we don't know the detail of this yet and certainly wouldn't have known the detail before zblps did you ever say... in june 2016. did you ever say it would cost billions? did you ever tell your constituents it could cost billions? did you ever... i had in never have that conversation. i would have a lwa ys that conversation. i would have always been clear and said this on a public that one, that there would be upfront costs for the uk leaving the eu. of course there will be. the country is going to make a serious change of direction by leaving the eu and any big organisation making a big change of direction is inevitably going to be faced with upfront costs and i certainly said that on a platform. i couldn't have put a number on it at that stage but the long—term benefits here, as we come out of the european union, stop having to pay the order of £10 billion per year. in this budget

period and a budget we kept down when david cameron negotiated this in 2014. and almost certainly it will rise quite significantly in the next seven year budget period. our obligations will rise, as well. we will no longer have those obligations of the sort of size. you understand... biggar off the hook now of a net contribution of 10 billion per yearfor the now of a net contribution of 10 billion per year for the decades to come. if you take this referendum decision in the same as last one, thatis decision in the same as last one, that is £400 billion saved for the uk. will you understand if some leave voters feel betrayed by the sums discussed today? given the way it's being presented by the media and the immediate cost, and no consideration of the long—term benefits, which is why we took this decision, certainly the case i made, about the decades to come. this is not about the next two or three yea rs not about the next two or three years because clearly there are

upfront costs. those costs are inevitable. the long—term benefits of being free to set our own rules for our own economy as a non—euro country, we were never going to be in the right place in the long—term by being outvoted by the countries in the eu on the shape of the economy, will be in the right place to set our own rules and will be free of the ongoing 10 billion per year not contribution which will almost certainly rise significantly and that is saving somewhere in the order of half £1 trillion. thank you. still to come, we'll talk about north korea. north korea boasts of testing its "most powerful" ballistic missile to date — capable of reaching mainland america. this programme has found a lottery when appealing a sound decisions. with appeals almost twice as likely

to be successful at some centres as others. one worker has told is that the situation is so bad that some lawyers have lied about the dress of their clients to get their case heard at a different location. mohamed al—refai is 21 and lives in portsmouth. he says he was forced to flee syria and is seeking uk asylum but he says he's never had a good lawyer. his first asylum claim failed and so did his appeal. i didn't feel like somebody support me, you know? for example, the solicitor, she doesn't do her work for this case. the court was as well unfair with me. he now has a new legal representative and is putting in a fresh claim for asylum. we've been investigating cases

throughout the uk and to a freedom of information request, we found big variations in the number of successful appears... appeals depending on what hearing censured the consent of their app. a quick scan down this list shows you a huge difference in results of a four yea rs. difference in results of a four years. taking two centres that have a lot of cases, both in london. harmondsworth, 24% of appeals were successful. at tayler house, it was 47%. the variations exist across the whole uk. it is not possible to give a reason,

but a difference of culture at hearing centres bring up the differences again and again. i'm sadly not surprised at all. it's a kind of arbitrary decision—making which i see across the systems all the time that two cases can have com pletely the time that two cases can have completely different results. based on differentjudges and different hearing centres. how far do you see lawyers go to get their clients into places where the results are better and more likely to get asylum? well, i do know of cases where people have lied about their address so that they would be in the taylor house district and what have they hearings heard there. is that an acceptable thing to do? no, that's not acceptable. i think these statistics are very upsetting. this suggestion that there are advice deserts and legal aid

deserts for people in different parts of the country means people are going into asylum appeals unrepresented. that is completely unacceptable in a humane democracy. the government has a responsibility to investigate further. why so many successful appeals across the country, and why such disparity in different parts of the country? mohammed's hopeful that he will secure asylum in the uk, but he's already been here four years, and he says he doesn't let himself think about the future, any future, any more. let's took to the shadow attorney general, calling for an urgent investigation into the figures. . thank you, all of you, for coming on the programme. what do you think are the programme. what do you think are the possible reasons why 24% of asylu m the possible reasons why 24% of asylum seeker appeals are successful at one london hearing centre,

whereas at another its 47%? it is an astonishing disparity and there are many reasons. that's excellent report said it was difficult to say there was one reason. i have to say that legal aid for people in general and son asylum seekers in particular has been all but obliterated in this country. judges are only as good as the representations that are made before them. i don't think that anybody should go to an asylum appeal inadequately represented or without representation at all.l spokesman for the judiciary says, alljudges consider each case individually, based on relevant fa cts individually, based on relevant facts and the law. there may be number of factors that explain different outcomes butjudges will a lwa ys different outcomes butjudges will always deal with each case fairly and based on the merits. you will have come across manyjudges in your time. are you saying you don't trust them? not at all. ajudge is only as

good as the representations before them. if you've got... asylum can be a really complex question, whether someone qualifies for refugee convention protection. people cannot represent themselves. it's unfair on a judge who is faced with a representative of the home office on one hand to compensate for the fact that somebody else has either not been legally represented or they've got a lawyer whose is turned up at the last minute and onlyjust seen the last minute and onlyjust seen the papers. this is what is happening and it's unfair on the judges and not fair on the asylum seekers. syed, you represent people at asylum appeals. what do you think of this variation? my experience withjudges, to echo of this variation? my experience with judges, to echo those sentiments, has been largely quite positive. they're quite a vital safeguard in dealing with often very poor decision—making on part of the home office. we are not having a go at the judges. i think the whole

issue resonates from the legal aid cuts. your research was carried out over a period of four years and that's essentially when these legal aid cuts had started. from ist of april 2013, there's been immigration legal aid... april 2013, there's been immigration legalaid... it april 2013, there's been immigration legal aid... it was completely changed. a lot of areas that were previously within the scope of legal aid have been taken out. there's a very limited type of immigration cases that you can actually do within the scope of legal aid. do you acknowledge that it's possible that some of the appeals are rejected because the case is weak? i... that... may be a reason but i think there are various factors at play. legal aid in my opinion is the main factor. if a client isn't able

to get representation, asylum is a very complex area. you will see variations. natasha, success rates of these appeals are very low at hearing centres that are near detention centres. why might that be? we visit a lot in your walls would detention centre, the detention centre where women are held. in our research we find that more than half the women locked up say they find it really hard to access any legal advice. they often have very poor legal advice. what i'd like to do is highlight the human cost of this because i think we can get bogged down in this talk of the lawyers and tribunal 's and certainly lose sight of the fact that these are often... they are life or death decisions to a lot of people. the last tribunal appeal that i went to was actually at one of the centres that is not

highlighted as being a major problem in your research, taylor house. the woman was in your research, taylor house. the woman was underrepresented. she was a survivor of the most brutal rape and torture from the congo. she had good medical evidence from freedom from—cam torture, but she hadn't brought it to the hearing. she didn't even know she should have brought evidence of her hospital appointments with her. her appeal was a appointments with her. her appeal was a shocking experience. i wasn't able to speak, i wasjust there to give her moral support. she wasn't even able to say the word rape in the court. we're talking about traumatised woman who hasn't yet come to terms with what has happened to her. she couldn't speak about the way soldiers have treated her, she falle n way soldiers have treated her, she fallen pregnant as a result of the rape, she had hospital treatment for her injuries. she was up against the home office lawyer that attacked her credibility in every way possible.

it was a shocking experience. this isa it was a shocking experience. this is a highly adversarial process. it's like a kitten in a cage with a rottweiler. she stood no chance and was rottweiler. she stood no chance and was turned down. you reacted with horror at that. it's just not was turned down. you reacted with horror at that. it'sjust not a fair hearing if one side is not represented and the judge cannot compensate for that.” represented and the judge cannot compensate for that. i couldn't. .. you know, i'm not allowed to speak. i'm nota you know, i'm not allowed to speak. i'm not a lawyer. i canjump up and say —— i cannotjump up and say, what she means to say is... she was brutally raped. your disparity is shocking. i have to say it's a wonderful investigation because a lot of journalists wonderful investigation because a lot ofjournalists ignore this question. it is not the sexiest subject on tv. it's important that your colleagues have done this. but, yes, the disparities across the country yes, the disparities across the cou ntry after yes, the disparities across the country after browsing and upsetting, but what about just the fa ct upsetting, but what about just the fact that about 36% of appeals are successful? that shows who first

insta nce successful? that shows who first instance decision—making by the home office that it is responsible for refugee convention. what would you like to see? i think it's a shame that nobody from the government has spoken to your programme. that's way too defensive and not acceptable. that's a shame. i would like them to ta ke that's a shame. i would like them to take this more seriously and consider it. yes, look at the disparities but also at the initial decision—making. in the end, i believe it's the duty of the lord chancellorjustice secretary to make that every single person who is facing removalfrom this that every single person who is facing removal from this country, potentially in breach of the refugee convention, has access to advice and representation. 0k, thank you. i'd also say, it sounds as though we are asking for more money to be pumped into the system but at the moment the system is so inefficient, huge delays, people having to go to further appeals and judicial reviews all the time. if there were some aren't loading that people got decent advice and therefore decent

first decisions right at the beginning, i actually think it would beginning, i actually think it would be much cheaper. all other areas of civil law, including domestic abuse, we need advice and representation in this country. thank you very much. we asked the mystery ofjustice for comment. they haven't commented yet. thejudicial comment. they haven't commented yet. the judicial office comment. they haven't commented yet. thejudicial office said comment. they haven't commented yet. the judicial office said that all judges consider each case based on the relevant facts and the law and there may be issues. they will a lwa ys there may be issues. they will always deal with it fairly and on its merits. immigration judges always deal with it fairly and on its merits. immigrationjudges are deployed across various centres and do not sit solely in any single one. you've been telling us what you make of the brexit divorce bill, set to be up to potentially 50 billion euros. we'll talk to some voters, those who voted to leave, in the next half hour.

time for the latest news, here's annita. good morning. the bbc understands that the government has offered the european union between 40 and 40 billion euros as a financial settlement for britain's withdrawal from the eu. downing street said no final figure had been agreed and negotiations were continuing. the transport secretary, chris grayling, told the bbc that the uk would "meet our obligations". north korea has claimed its latest ballistic missile test demonstrates it now has the capability to strike anywhere in the united states. experts say the altitude it achieved strongly indicates that if it were fired at a different angle, it could reach washington. china has urged all sides to stop actions which it said heightened tensions. a 15—year—old boy has been charged with causing the deaths by dangerous driving of three children and two men who died in a collision in leeds on saturday.

the teenager is due to appear at leeds magistrates' court this morning. all five victims were in the car when it crashed. the youngest were brothers, aged 12 and 14. police have appealed for information. lawyers for michael stone, the man found guilty of murdering a mother and daughter in kent in 1996, say they'll release significant new evidence today that casts doubt on his conviction. lin russell and her six—year—old daughter, megan, were attacked as they walked along a quiet country lane near the village of chillenden, south east of canterbury. apple says it's working to fix a serious bug in its most recent mac operating system. the flaw in the high sierra software makes it possible to access a mac computer or laptop without a password, and gain powerful administrator rights. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. thank you very much.

i want to thank this woman who has e—mailed and it is about coercive control. we were talking about this earlier. legislation, the law was changed this 2015 to make coercive control a crime and we have been talking about the arrests since then, 4,000 arrests for coercive control, but only 17% of those arrested go on to be charged. we spoke it a woman who described being a victim of coercive control. this viewer says, "i am a mum that believes her daughter is in a marriage with coercive control. after watching lisa—marie discussing her experiences earlier. i would like to know if there is an organisation that i can make contact with seek advice as i have watched this happening to my daughterfor many years and it has now resulted in my daughter falling many years and it has now resulted in my daughterfalling out many years and it has now resulted in my daughter falling out with many years and it has now resulted in my daughterfalling out with me and the rest of hadar family. we have had no contact with my daughter and two grandchildren for two years due to her husband's controlling

behaviour and i am heartbroken. there are and i ., and i want to point of all in the direction of the bbc‘s action line if i may, michelle. if you type that in, then they will be able to guide you and point you in the right direction, hopefully to help your daughter. thank you very much for getting in touch with us. we appreciate it. here's some sport now with hugh. cricketer ben stokes has sparked stories of an impending england return by flying in to christchurch with the prospect of playing club cricket in new zealand this weekend. he also had his england kitbag in toe with his team—mates not far away in australia following that first test defeat in the ashes. manchester united boss jose mourinho was unhappy with his team's wastefulness, saying they should have been five or six up in their 4—2 premier league win at watford.

3—0 up at half—time, jesse lingard's goal ended a tense finale. it's now four points from their last five league games for tottenham hotspur. they were beaten 2—1 by leicester city. their manager mauricio pochettino said he was "disappointed and frustrated". england's women made it three wins from three in world cup qualifying with a 5—0 thrashing of kazakhstan. there were also wins for wales and northern ireland. that's all the sport for now. more in newsroom live after 11am. north korea says it has successfully tested its "most powerful" ballistic missile to date state television said pyongyang had achieved its mission of becoming a nuclear state. the hwasong—15 missile, was launched in darkness this morning before landing in japanese waters. it flew higher than any other missile the north had previously tested and is believed to be capable

of hitting most of the president trump has promised to "handle" the situation without offering any details about america's response might be. as you probably have heard, and some of you have reported, a missile was launched a little while ago from north korea. i will only tell you that we will take care of it. we have general mattis in the room with us and we have had a long discussion on it. it is a situation that we will handle. and, unsurprisingly, the reaction inside north korea to the test has been positive. translation: with the respected supreme commander comrade kim jong—un, our country could develop into the world's strongest nuclear power. i think the world cannot exist without our country. translation: i just want to ask a question to trump, a dotard who is frequently backbiting our dignity — can you still dare to backbite about our country? can you continue to do it even while hwasong—15 is fired at the us mainland?

joining me in the studio isjohn everard — former uk ambassador to north korea and on webcam, elizabeth minor, an advisor for article 36 — a uk partner and steering group for the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons. john, first of all, this is a more powerful missile, isn't it? how alarmed should we be? we should be quite alarmed. it went ten times as high as the international space station. it demonstrated a considerable range and if it was fired who are accidentally rather than vertically, it would be able to hit targets pretty much anywhere in the continental united states. we are not sure whether the pay load it carried was of the same weight as a nuclear bomb. it maybe they put something lighter on so. so the north koreans may not be there, but

a significant step forward to the north koreans ambition to be able to threaten all american cities with nuclear devastation. wow. and how do you react to that elizabeth? this most recent missile test shows that north korea is continuing to develop a capacity to use nuclear weapons on cities which is unacceptable behaviour for any state. this cycle of dangerous escalation and sanction which is imperilling the region right now can only be ended through an international solution that addresses the elimination of nuclear weapons and actually the majority of the world's countries have been working towards this, this year by negotiating a treaty prohibiting nuclear weapons which was adopted at the uninjuly nuclear weapons which was adopted at the unin july this year. what do you think they will do next, john? i don't think they said. they

have got another nuclear test. a few weeks ago their foreign minister was saying it might have to be ant moss feric test over the pacific. so a mushroom cloud. the first one since 1980. i think that really would send shock waves both physical and psychological through the world. and what after that? after that, they will continue testing their missiles until they are convinced that they have a reliable deterrent and at that point, they will announce that they have achieved their goal and i suspect that at that point they will start to attempt to strong arm south korea into submission. i think that's part of the long—term strategy. 0k. that's part of the long—term strategy. ok. so in terms of the fa ct strategy. ok. so in terms of the fact that they have a more dangerous missile. the situation is more dangerous. they are becoming more aggressive, one might argue, in the way they are testing these things, what should the rest of the world do? the rest of the world is frankly stuck. we watched president trump just say he will handle the situation, which, of course, means

nothing. the only coherent response we have had from the united states has been from secretary tillerson who said the next step must be the right to interindite north koreans vessels, that's to board them on the high seas. wouldn't that provoke them more? it would irritate them and throttle back their trade which is what secretary tillerson is trying to do. part this is a race against time. do the north koreans com plete against time. do the north koreans complete their tests and develop their credible deterrent after the threat to their economy causes them to stop and causes them to worry ab popular revolt? thank you very much. john and elizabeth. apologies because the skype did freeze on elizabeth, but we could hear her perfectly clearly. thank you. the uk's annual celebration of music of black origin makes a return to leeds tonight.

the mob0s will be presented by presenter maya jama. she's the youngest ever presenter and will take to the stage alongside formerjls member marvin humes. us star cardi b, kreptand konan, stefflon don,and yxng bane are all performing. in a moment we'll speak to yxng bane who has been nominated for best newcomer. have a look at this first. music: rihanna by yxng bane # can i tell you that i'm wanting you? # i'm in love with the way you move # and i think you should have a drink or two # truth is i want to lie with you so come away # feel like you need somebody # so baby girl come my way # feel like you somebody # dip low, watching her dip low # dances on me and now she sip slow # watching your head down to your tip toe # you know, i got something for when we get home # get home, now you're in my zone, in my zone # and we gon' get going # wood in yourframe it's like window # tear off your garments

we can bin those # i said gimme your love, you know you're bad like rihanna # i'll do you good no wahala hi, good morning. thank you for having me. thank you for coming on the programme and congratulations on your nomination for best newcomer. how are you feeling about tonight? really, excited and nervous. couple years ago you were uploading tracks to soundcloud, now you're nominated for a mob0, how does that happen? i remember going to the studio the first day. i wasn't even supposed to record anything. i was just tagging along with some pals and once i put the music on soundcloud the reaction was crazy. we had one million listeners. that gave me more motivation to keep going and now gave me more motivation to keep oin and nowwe're gave me more motivation to keep going and now we're here today. you have been included in the long list for the bbc‘s 2018 sound of list. how do you react to that?”

for the bbc‘s 2018 sound of list. how do you react to that? i didn't know how to react to that. i didn't know how to react to that. i didn't know how to react to that. i didn't know how to react to that. when that came through and i was told by my manager i was just pretty stunned really. blessings after blessings. i'm just enjoying the ride. well, it is really good to see you and to see how happy you are. yeah. you remixed shape of you. the videos had 14 million youtube views. let's have a clip for our audience. # i want to my hands on you. # i want to my hands on you. # i want to my hands on you. # i love the shape of you. # i love the shape of you. # i love the shape of you. # i want to put my hands on you. # i want to put my hands on you. # i'm in love with your body. hrk how did that come about? here is the story behind this one. i was in the studio and i got a phone call from

my manager and he was like, "you have got to did do this track, remix it. i can hear you on it." we did it and once it was out, oh my god, yeah. yeah. yeah. laughter what you couldn't believe the reaction either? no. even getting the approvalfrom reaction either? no. even getting the approval from ed reaction either? no. even getting the approvalfrom ed himself... do you know what he thinks of it? yeah. yeah, before we put it out we got the nod from ed and then i met him in person and he told me what he thought of it and yeah. and what does he think of it? he told me he was happy with it. he told me it was really good. brilliant. you hit the charts with rihanna, but it is not actually about rihanna at all? no, not at all. rihanna was a track that i used to kind of express my appreciation to ha rd—working i used to kind of express my appreciation to hard—working women. so, yeah. have you ever met her? no, i've

never met rihanna, but she, tha nkfully never met rihanna, but she, thankfully she used a rihanna page on her make—up page. for those who want to learn more about you, how would you describe yourself? very bubbly. i'm like pretty la id yourself? very bubbly. i'm like pretty laid back. i'm hard—working. i'm authentic and honest. and how does your background feature in your music sth i grew up in canning town which is east london. very multi—cultural. that had a great influence on my music because you meet people and you grow faster and it made me mature pretty fast and took a toll on my music as well. next year, what should people look out for in terms of your work? we have got the tour coming up in march. i'm really excited to do that. i dropped a collaboration

piece. just more music. bigger and better things, yeah. more music. you're performing tonight. yes. i'll be performing a track which was in the top ten. very excited to do that. best of luck for tonight. really enjoyed it and ride that wave, which you clearly are. cheers, yxng. yxng bane, mobos tonight. we've had messages from you about the brexit divorce bill. it's been insisted this is wrong but the government will meet its obligation. they have agreed to up the bill, the uk, to move negotiations on to trade talks. let's talk to two i leave voters, david burgessjoyce, retired

police officer, and andrew swift, who voted to leave. thank you for coming on the programme. david, what do you think of this figure? the size of this figure? it's a pretty large figure and i have to say i'm not one of those leave voters who say we should not hold to our obligations. what i have a concern about is we have an organisation like the eu that hasn't been audited for a long time and yet figure has been plucked out of the air. i'd be more comfortable, victoria, if there was a figure of 32.6 million and we knew exactly what it was and what we re knew exactly what it was and what were paying for. as a police officer of many years, i think my concern is that this sounds like a ransom payment and as we all know in law enforcement, the first ransom is never necessarily the last. but we are being told the government has agreed to up its figure of 20

billion, which was offered in that florence speech by the prime minister. indeed and i'm not privy, as we all aren't, to the match nations of what goes on behind those closed doors. i do expect there to bea closed doors. i do expect there to be a figure and i don't think any realistic figure would think otherwise. i just think that it's almost like the analogy of going into an auction and the auctioneer says, i might bid £40 billion and then somebody put their hand up and says, let me know what it is an bidding forfirst? i genuinely says, let me know what it is an bidding for first? i genuinely feel as though i'd be more comfortable andi as though i'd be more comfortable and i think the british people would be more comfortable, remainders or leave voters, if we knew what the pounds, shillings and pence was paying for. pensions, i have no issue with that. any commitments that we've given around infrastructure payments, again, i have no problems with that at all. you just want to know. exactly, what the figure is. andrew, do you agree?

why haven't we seen one yet?” the figure is. andrew, do you agree? why haven't we seen one yet? i don't think they can work out the bid that will be finalised until we go through it all. it's not anything that can be done in one quick e—mail. it's going to take several months if not years before not only do we get the figure, but exactly what the figure is paying for. do you remember during the leave campaign, the prominent leave leaders, telling you, look, we might need to pay up to 50 billion euros? it was absolutely obvious that there was it was absolutely obvious that there was going to be finalised bill. just like when you sell and move house, it doesn't end at that point. there are bills to pay for what you've used, for the period of your membership. it would be inconceivable to think there is nothing to pay the day that we actually leave europe. again, coming back to your point, both sides, the

remain and the leave campaign is cherry pick what they said. david, i wonder if you, now we are seeing the reality of the situation, that it will be a large sum, a sizeable sum, does that match what you think you we re does that match what you think you were promised in the run—up to the eu referendum? very similar to your other call it, we went promised anything. leave and remain were in the dark. the principles about leaving the eu were much more about the financialfigure. leaving the eu were much more about the financial figure. what i am concerned about is that when we leave the eu, we are going as a country to have to negotiate some significance trade deals and it doesn't set a very good stance that we're good at negotiating if we give away on before we leave, a significant amount of money. it makes me feel that maybe any negotiations we have with america or china, they'll see us as a soft touch. that's a reputational issue

for the country, which i have a real burn about. what about the trade deal, andrew, that britain is hoping to negotiate with the eu? if that isn't what we want, should the uk say, well, stuff your divorce bill, we're not paying a thing? absolutely. it works on both sides of the fence. if we had to pay tariffs to do business with them, they pay tariffs to do business with us victoria, there's nearly 200 countries on the planet. the eu represents 27. i don't think that's going to be the problem. i don't think the finances, if i'm being honest, was the main reason for brexit. why did you vote for brexit? it was immigration issues, is the main part. we are paying into the eu,i main part. we are paying into the eu, ithought main part. we are paying into the eu, i thought we would get a raw deal. david, why did you vote for brexit? mine was very simple. i wanted my country to take control of

its own laws and i actually want my mps, my politicians, to be held accountable by the british people. i don't feel that under an eu structure, whatever structure that would be, that we are actually able to vote them in. we vote every four or five years, but in reality were not voting for anybody because they are at the behest of anybody who's on election this year. i confess, i'm slightly surprised how calm you are about the size of this divorce bill! it's such a lot of money! we have no guarantees, however, that thatis have no guarantees, however, that that is the final figure.” have no guarantees, however, that that is the final figure. i don't think it will go lower, though, will it? i don't know, in fairness, victoria. we don't know what's going on behind the scenes and in fans we don't know whether the eu and the british government have agreed that if this figure is paid we'll have tariff free. that might end up where we actually are a real benefit to the country. i genuinely don't know. if it is a £40 billion figure, i

genuinely would like to know what exactly i've been paying for. that's what i want. join the club. we'll see if that ever happens. thank you, david. andrew. breezy at you coming on the programme. two viewers who both voted leave. they want an invoice and they are pretty calm about the money that's going to have to be paid to leave. the price worth paying. being able to put food on the table is one of our most basic everyday needs, but there are concerns that an increasing number of households in the uk are facing food insecurity — that means people are struggling to get enough good quality, nutritious food to stay healthy. but it seems that mps don't know how big the scale of the problem is because there's no official collection of statistics on how many people can't afford to eat, or worry about where their next meal is coming from. a bill will be read in the commons later today aimed at establishing and then making her case to the commons later today. let's talk now to emma lewell—buck — she's labour's minister for children and families and is raising the bill today. dr rachel loopstra is

a researcher on food insecurity and has collected data on food bank use. hello, both of you. what is food insecurity, and ? hello, both of you. what is food insecurity, and? it's where people are unable to put food on the table, where they worry about where their next meal is coming from or how they're going to be able to afford to eat from one day to the next. how much food insecurity do we have in this country, would you say, from the work you've done, rachel? the best figure we have comes from a survey in 2016 in england, wales and northern ireland. there was a survey only of adults, and it estimated that 8% of adults were experiencing skipping meals because they didn't have enough food to eat, feeling hungry, being unable to eat and most severely going whole days without eating. an additional 13% said they worry about their food running out before they have money to buy more. what is it that you're introducing in the commons today? explain it in

plain english so we can all understand what you're trying to do. it's very simple, really. living costs a nd it's very simple, really. living costs and food survey across the whole of the uk done by the government. those questions in that survey that can be removed and replaced with questions around food insecurity. it's about getting those questions into that survey. the purpose of that would be for what, ultimately? at the moment you have a lot of anecdotal evidence from charities with information from the united nations in 2014 to see there's —— say there's eight moline people who'd insecure in the uk but the government are hiding behind the lack of a robust measurement, so what i want to see in place... in what i want to see in place... in what way are they hiding? they are refusing to introduce any robust measurement so you'll see, it's anecdotal or it's just this charity or it's not a representative sample. what i'm introducing is a way of getting a representative sample so we'll have a true picture for once and for all of the levels and hunger and for all of the levels and hunger and food insecurity in the country.

in orderfor you to and food insecurity in the country. in order for you to achieve what you have just explained, what has to happen? what are the machinations in terms of the commons? i'll introduce the bill today and it will go for a second reading on the 2nd of february. if that passes through, it will go on to a debating committed and hopefully be passed and become and hopefully be passed and become an act of parliament. is it likely to pass? there's a lot of opposition to pass? there's a lot of opposition to it because like i said earlier they are hiding behind what we all know is happening out there. people are going hungry. these stats would mean they have to put in place policies to mitigate the growing levels of hunger in our country. the department for education says record numbers of people are now in work and we are helping millions of households meet the everyday costs of living and keep more of what they earn. we continue to spend over £90 billion per year on support for those who need it, including those who are bringing up a family or on a low income, and we have doubled free

childcare to help parents into work. a study done earlier this year by unicef said, in all developed countries, we have one of the highest percentages of children who are in households where there are working parents living in poverty, soi working parents living in poverty, so i dispute what the dfe are saying. but that is true. they are bringing in 90 billion per year in support for those who need. barette good number of people in work. those are facts. but they're also recommends people in work and in property. you need to be able to measure the sufficiency of income. one of the best ways to do that is to ask about people's experiences and whether or not they're able to make dunn meet their food needs. it a dimensional positive... poverty. they can hide what goes on in people's homes and whether they're actually earning enough and receiving enough benefits to meet their needs and that's why food insecurity measurement is critical for measuring those experiences. what do you say to those who say, we

don't have food insecurity in this country? we don't have it in the fifth, sixth richest economy, which is britain? it's outrageous that we do have it and if you look in any community there will be a food bank. there's over 2000 food banks that we know what in the country at the moment and there's probably a hell ofa moment and there's probably a hell of a lot more and we don't have a robust measurement to know. do you think food banks are part and parcel of our society? i think that is the case and i think we are saying dunn seeing certain replacements of adequate benefit entitlements and support for income and food banks are often being relied upon now to feed that gap. we're looking at whether they are sufficient and a cce pta ble whether they are sufficient and acceptable form of filling that gap andl acceptable form of filling that gap and i don't believe they are. a lot of people use the banks but continue to experience food insecurity and thatis to experience food insecurity and that is what our research has shown.

thank you to both of you. thank you very much for your m essa g es thank you very much for your messages today, particularly on the brexit divorce bill. i'll leave you this. it's a joke, this summer. it's all about the eu trying to up the money. goodbye. back tomorrow. this is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11. the price of brexit — the bbc understands the uk has offered up to 50 billion euros to settle its divorce bill with the european union. nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. we are accepting there are obligations. a defendant in the hague says he drank poison after his crimes were upheld. north korea hails another ballistic missile test, claiming it's now capable of reaching the united states.

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