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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  November 30, 2017 4:30am-5:01am GMT

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islamic terrorism taking place in britain rather than criticising him. the tweet came after britain said donald trump had been wrong to retweet inflammatory anti—muslim videos posted by a far—right group. the us ambassador to the united nations, nikki haley, has warned the north korean leadership that it would be "utterly destroyed" if war broke out. speaking at an emergency meeting of the un security council in new york, she called all countries to cut their diplomatic and trade ties with pyongyang. the former bosnian croat general, slobodan praljak, has died in the hague, after drinking poison during the final hearing of the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia. praljak swallowed the liquid after the presiding judge affirmed his original twenty—year sentence. now on bbc news, hardtalk. hello and welcome to hardtalk. i'm
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shaun ley. is it safe to do business in the united arab emirates? haigh thought oh —— david haigh thought so until he suffered imprisonment. his former employer says he is a convicted fraudster. he says he is the victim of legal and political malfeasance. is there something rotten in the state? david haigh, welcome to hardtalk. lets pick up your story in may 2014. you were working for gf page, a
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company based in dubai and you help to purchase leeds united. why were you flying to dubai? i had been the managing director of leads and i've put together a consortium to put —— purchase the club. the consortium fell apart and it was sold to a new owner. i then resigned from leeds united and had various legal disputes with my former employer. legal actions had been studied by my side in england. things were ugly and we had fallen out. they then started a long track of trying to get me to come, first to bahrain and then to dubai. text messages, e—mail, telling me to come there and they would sort it out. so i believed them. as you do because you
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have no reason not to. did anyone voice any unease to you? did anybody wonder why they wanted you out there? i had lived in dubai for eight years and for me was a second home. at that point i had not been in dubaifor nine home. at that point i had not been in dubai for nine months because things have been so all consuming. for men, i have not done anything wrong, and certainly if you have done something wrong, you would not fly to eastern country. so i had dinner with ken, the former owner and he didn't get on with the people he sold the club to add all and he has been vocal about what he thinks of them. that fell apart. and had dinner with him and his wife and he said to not go, it was a trap. i laugh about it now because it was serious. you need to look at something like that that happens to
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you with some kind of comedy otherwise it gets dark. but at the time you did not take it seriously and you laughed it off? obviously. can sold the club to them and then they found reason to causing problems. there you go. you get on the plane, you fly to dubai, you will rise. what happened when you reached the office? i had a first—class ticket so i went from first—class ticket so i went from first class emirate airlines ticket, i went home, freshened up and i went to the office. i was supposed to be meeting an ex— government minister who had justjoined the board of the company who was going to settle the disputes we had and pay all the money. that is what i was told. in walks a young gentleman, about 18 or 19, he wore the local dress with a
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back to front cap. i thought this is not the minister i was expecting. he looked at me and told me to come with him. this is the young teenage lad, he was a police officer? it appeared so. he never said the word arrest nor said he was police. he just told me that come with them. i had lived there for long enough to know that the police get involved for minor infractions and so i went to the police station. it is not like you would imagine, it is not a nice place. it is hot, busy and people are shouting. the police have guns. and you got an easy question mark yes. i had not spent time in police stations, let alone and arabic one. this is not what you see on the tv, it is the real middle east. shouting, pushing, people screaming. again, you know,
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ultimately another person comes in and says simply that i had been accused of taking money from my employer. where is the money. this is... so before the end of the first day you find out this is what it was about? that was it. you have been accused of taking money, where is the money? what have you or did you... how long does this process ta ke you... how long does this process take for you finally are formally charged? how long take for you finally are formally charged ? how long before take for you finally are formally charged? how long before you are charged? how long before you are charged with an offence quest at 15 months. 15 months? and during that time where are you? i was in a detention facility where people are meant to set date for a couple of weeks. i was there for 15 months. during that time, no investigation. there was no questioning apart from the first day and in the morning after the first day and after that, nothing until 15 months later. no questioning, no investigation. ra rely questioning, no investigation. rarely any resemblance of a normal
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system where if you are accused of something you have the right to see a lawyer... none of that you never expect to go through something like this. so when it happened my friends and family contacted the embassy and they came after three or four days. being a naive routes and having lived abroad for most of my life i expected them to come in in some sort of james bond, expected them to come in in some sort ofjames bond, like seeing and get me out to the first thing they said to me, the vice consul, said to me, the best we can do is move you toa me, the best we can do is move you to a differentjail because you are likely to be here for in nine years until they actually investigate and decide if they're going to charge you. —— you are likely to be here for in nine years. —— for two years. that was a hell of a shock. i looked at the gentleman and said that he was not james bond.
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at the gentleman and said that he was notjames bond. but was probably a foolish thing to say. i laugh about it now but at the time it was something that i... it is regular. they tell you this and they tell you not to contact the media. the foreign office says its staff were almost in daily contact with you. that is a light, basically. at the beginning myself and my family and politicians on my behalf were pushing and pushing because it was so ridiculous. but then when i realised it was not getting anywhere i stopped. because you have limited phone access. you had one phone between 60 or 150 people. you were in custody throughout this period. you are quoted in an interview he gave to the daily mail saying you started to scribble things down. be allowed to have pens and paper. in fairness, the guard has been good to me. was that the whole story? the interview i gave, a lot of what was
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happening was that i was told at the beginning by the embassy, by the foreign office and by some of the guard is my lawyers to nice thing about dubai. play along, big good, tell everyone how good the guards are. if you look at my twitter account, there was all this lovely stuff about the guards. we even got my lawyers to write a nice thing to put on the wall. this was nonsense. it was not what was happening. the reality was what i was telling the embassy on a contemporary basis and i was writing to a court in dubai where some retired englishjudges go. in 2015, 2016, iwas where some retired englishjudges go. in 2015, 2016, i was writing a letter saying that i was being tortured and abused and asking for help. rolling back if we may, i realise it is not listen to go back over but we must be clear about what you were saying. when you say you we re you were saying. when you say you were tortured, what you specifically mean? abused in general over the 22 month. when i say that i mean like
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punches and kicks and bangs over the head. in terms of torture i see, to myself, three episodes. won on the first day. won a couple of days later and one was a few weeks after that. they all followed the same kind of format, a format which i now know they use on other people. basically being beaten around the head, back and legs, kicked on the floor, stamped on, severely beaten up. potato was one of the worst because, it was repeatedly, notjust once. repeated cases by repeated people. and when you are on the floor being kicked and being electrocuted with tasters... i would say that again and again and again. so you sorry done to other prisoners and experienced it yourself?” so you sorry done to other prisoners and experienced it yourself? i saw the bad and worse to other prisoners. that to me was the worst thing. if someone punches you in the
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face it's not great but in a way you get a little used to it. it is not something bad... being a businessman and in the career i had the eye was not used to it that you can deal with it. one of the things, after the first three months when they realised that i was well known in england and what had they done, oh dear... then they started being nice. as part of that they would ta ke nice. as part of that they would take me out of the main area and let mesh take me out of the main area and let me sit with the guards. and let my lawyers see me for a little longer. when i would sit in the guard staffroom i would see a lot. i would see them regularly beat, and the word torture severely here because... we should say that we have made repeated attempts to approach the authorities in the uae for comment and we have had no response at all from ben. therefore we have had no opportunity to put
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these allegations to them. you are 93v- these allegations to them. you are gay. did that make you feel additionally vulnerable because you we re additionally vulnerable because you were ina additionally vulnerable because you were in a country where being gay and having a homosexual relationship would be an offence? it did. we will come to that in a moment that it i would like to pick up on the uae not getting back to you. since i have returned, i am often a defence witness for extradition. the uae and the uk have an extradition treaty. and you set up a group to prepare —— provide helpful people. -- help for people. i do, provide helpful people. -- help for people. ido, i provide helpful people. -- help for people. i do, i have done about ten court cases. what that means is i put my statement in about what happened to me. recently in england the uae accepted my evidence. they did not challenge the evidence that i gave all the court. they did not say was true but they did not
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challenge it. and in that way you would accept it to be true? the barristers that round the case said that because they chose not to cross—examine me, i just that because they chose not to cross—examine me, ijust want that because they chose not to cross—examine me, i just want to that because they chose not to cross—examine me, ijust want to put that in. what you said about being 93v, that in. what you said about being gay, for me this is one of the reasons why i felt that i started to fall out with my former employer. the dealfor my fall out with my former employer. the deal for my consortium's purchase of leads with signed in november 2013 and in december 2013i made the club one of the first football diversity champions for stonewall, a charity. so we had a day where leaders and former players came along. it was a very positive day. the fans were fantastic, robbie got a standing ovation. he is doing very well at la galaxy now. i am told that that was one of the days
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that really set to let and was foolish of me, but as far as i was concerned we were purchasing the club. i now know that that was one of the reasons. because i was told by people still involved in the group even now that one of the reasons why i angered them so much was because i was gay. 0ne reasons why i angered them so much was because i was gay. one of the things they did with that information was that my legal team tried to launch a prosecution in the uk. i gave evidence. the evidence was translated into arabic and talked about my sexuality and the is done to me. translated into arabic, brought to the police station and given to the guard and they were told that he is gay. and it was, some of the times, two occasions when i was being tortured, it was used as a reason and that i was being hit and beaten... because you are gay? because i was gay. i won't get into too much detail but i had
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coca—cola waddles placed where they shouldn't be. because the guards read the papers and talk to the prisoners, the prisoners came to know so i then had difficulties within the jail because the majority of people they were from the region. that caused me great difficulty. it also meant that i could not have my partner come and visit me. is from the middle east but he could not visit me. one thing that then became important for me is that i had asked the court in dubai, the english financial court, i asked for them to not have my hearings in public because it puts me in partner at risk. the english court granted a slab of the dubai court said that the answer was no. not only that, they put it on youtube. so it was there on youtube and caused me problems. let 11 to the court case, when it
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finally happened. there is obviously a long process here —— let me move on. we get to november 2016, well after two years after your first detained, and at the dubai financial centre, the commercial court, the justice rules that you have acted dishonestly in this appropriately —— was preventing money from the claiming. we found that a significant sum of arab emirates money, plus 50,000 us dollars, up last more than 2000 pounds of —— uk money. he found that you were a fraudster. yes. to say that that is a farce of a trial, to give you an idea of what happened. up until september this year i had not been once allowed to appear in court. not once. every opportunity was taken to stop me having lawyers. it was part
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ofa stop me having lawyers. it was part of a conference of disablement. lock me up, shut me up, stop access to lawyers, and emanated have access to lawyers, and emanated have access to lawyers, stop my access to money to pay the lawyers that mixed up access to lawyers. why bother? without any disrespect you, why are you so important that they would go to all this to try to give you such bad treatment? i will come onto that in a minute. it is not as me they have done it too. it has several people. even though i do not respect the court whatsoever, as a lawyer i am trying to be respectful. we told them that i was going to hospital. while i was going to hospital, they decided to hold the hearing also was in hospital. i had lawyers who tried to come on the record. are regulated lawyer in the area. yet there was a
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deliberate attempt to try to stop me going to that hearing and having lawyers. we appealed when i came out of hospital. in mid—september we wa nt of hospital. in mid—september we want that appeal. the judgement has now been set aside. it now goes back to the court to reconsider. back to the beginning. not necessarily an exoneration, but not a conviction. you are back in the legal process once again. back of the beginning. what the justice also said in the rest of hisjudgement, what the justice also said in the rest of his judgement, he said you had sought to defend the claim against you with excavations which bike, justice giles, found to be lacking in credibility. he then accuse you of spring legal actions left, right and centre —— spring. he said there was a marked paucity of success and collateral proceedings. in my opinion, his dishonest conduct and his conduct in relation to the claim brought against him was inappropriate and unreasonable, to the level of taking the case out of
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the level of taking the case out of the norm and warranting an order for the norm and warranting an order for the costs on the indemnity basis. in other words, he said you had made a fuss of this process and he was effectively fining you in order to return the sums he claimed he had stolen from your employer —— farce. the first question is why me. again, thisjudgement, thisjudgement was from a court and a judge who had not let me go to court at all ever. they had not let me file a full defence. they had not let me file a counter claim. they had not let me via my evidence, which there is a lot. they are essentially not let me do anything. it raises the other question, why you. as i said, back to thejudgement. it question, why you. as i said, back to the judgement. it was a judgement from a hearing that i did not take pa rt from a hearing that i did not take part in at all and there was no defence. of course is going to come to those conclusions when there was no defence. why was there no defence? because of what had happened to me. back to the point, me? like you said right at the
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beginning, i had become, and i did not know this at the time, but because of the leeds deal which were starting to collapse, had not gone well, i had become a bit of a problem. and my side and my consortium had filed legal actions against the club, but more importantly against gsh. the new purchaser of leeds, immediately after he purchased the club he was planning of making a breach of contract claim against makes employees —— employers. i was the star witness was the blidi had been tricked buying the club. all of a sudden they became this very important person. you have become financially very significant. because if they lose on his claim it cost them a lot of money. better to discredit you. they would have gone bankrupt. you are saying this was a process to discredit you so you could not be a witness. the only on the red could statement we have from gsh was back in april 2016. they
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we re gsh was back in april 2016. they were asked to respond to the case and said what this case is actually about his emperors or myth of gfh's onto his own benefit. he is eight convicted fraud —— his embezzlement of. there are applications in the uk. if you go back right to the beginning. had i had my employers believed they had done something from, reporting to the police in england. go about the normal process by fly me to the middle east to put me intoa by fly me to the middle east to put me into a system that is known to be corrupt, that is accepted by our own courts in england, because extradition since 2011 will not extradite a british person to the ua. they know there is a real risk of torture and unfair trials. that statement itself is in trekkers —— in trekkers. currently, in england, there is an application to set those
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freezing orders aside. what sort of condition was david haigh in when he got off the plane in the uk are flat quite indescribable experience? not a good one. i had lost 60 kilos in weight. broken everything, pretty much. even now, my teeth are hurting as we speak because they were smashed up. i spent five months in hospital. my knee was damaged, and had to have surgery, my foot, my hand, my cheek has been fractured, i have poster matic stress disorder. i spent five months as an impatient in hospital. —— post—traumatic stress disorder. i go to regular rape counselling. i was not well. you still have nightmares about what she went through? rather than nightmares, it is more flashbacks. for instance, if i am sitting here talking to you, but if i drifted
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away, not that i would, at that point you would get that... when your guard is down. more late flashbacks in the day. i was getting a lot. anything to do with the middle east would set it. it could bes middle east would set it. it could be s mall, hearings of the speak arabic on the tv, —— smail. it was debilitating. i got home in march. i was in hospital in the priory in london, in june, was in hospital in the priory in london, injune, ithink was in hospital in the priory in london, injune, i think i went to hospital, i was there for two months. then i came out and i was on an awful lot of medication. remember my gp at one point in time, i was on liquid morphine, which gives you an idea of the pain. i was on morphine for about 16 months. that gives you an idea of the level of pain that i was in. the more stories like yours are told, not just was in. the more stories like yours are told, notjust yet, but more importantly in the uae, the middle east were generally, the more they are disseminated on social media, which is harder to control the conventional media, doesn't come a
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point where it damages the country's interests and therefore it will be in their interest to change this. interests and therefore it will be in their interest to change thislj in their interest to change this.” think it does. certainly, when i came out and i set up the charity with my partner, who had worked on cases like mine before. we have a charity. when we set that up, one of the things we want to do, as well as helping people back, is to raise the profile so we can say to dubai you can change this. there is no reason to torture and have unfettered trials. it might benefit you in the short term in terms of your local businesses and local families. you are an optimist. yes. that you are very angry. i am an optimist, but i am very angry. i would like to go there and change it, to be honest. thank you very much for being with us on hartill, david haigh, it is a great pleasure to meet you. thank you. -- hardtalk. hello.
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milder, well, less cold air will be with us for the weekend but with that, lots of cloud around. many of us in the day ahead will have sunshine and arctic air around high pressure to the west and low pressure to the east. arctic air, of course, it is very cold. widespread frost to start thursday. icy patches where we have had showers overnight and these are town and city temperatures. of course, it is colder in rural spots. the coldest parts of northern england and scotland will be down to about minus six or seven as the day begins. as many of us will start with some sunshine, we have sleet and snow showers affecting north—northeast scotland. down eastern coastal parts of england — as far south as norfolk. rain showers mainly for northern ireland. a bit of sleet to the hills. a scattering of these sleet and snow
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showers north—north—east scotland, but along the east coast, some of the showers will have pushed a little bit further inland so some accumulations in places like the hills to start the day. mainly rain showers western parts of wales, cornwall, west devon, sleet and snow to the highest ground. cold, frosty, clear start to the day for most of us. sleet and snow showers along the coast and just inland across eastern parts of england. driven in by a strong — gale force wind here, showers continue for west wales, the far south—west of england. showers dotted about northern ireland and northern scotland. across much of southern england, the midlands, wales, north—west england, south—west scotland, will have sunshine, but another cold day. colder still when you factor in the wind. especially where it is strongest across the north sea coast. a subtle change of wind direction thursday evening and night, more of these sleet and snow showers pushed further inland, again, giving accumulations in place is especially on hills. 0ut west, we stay mainly dry. a lot of clear, cold weather.
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quite a hard frost particularly across parts of scotland as we start off on friday morning. some sleet and snow showers, some accumulations to parts of eastern england on friday. a lot of the showers turning to rain or sleet as we go on through the day. a lot fade to allow some sunshine to come through. a change for scotland and northern ireland as it clouds over from the north—west and a bit of patchy rain and hill snow starting to move in here. that is a sign of the change coming in for the weekend as this weather front moves through. we change the wind direction back to more from the atlantic rather than the arctic. that will be a change in the feel of the weather. less cold, milder air, moves in for weekend. as i mentioned earlier, it will come with plenty of cloud. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story. donald trump hits back at the british prime minister following a spat over controversial tweets by the us president. after north korea's
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latest missile test — the us ambassador to the united nations warns the north korean leadership that it would be "utterly destroyed" if war broke out. and — how could life be affected on the border between northern ireland and the republic — after brexit. in business briefing we'll be live in vienna to get the inside track on the opec meeting.
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