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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  December 4, 2017 11:15pm-12:00am GMT

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ever get the sense that you are being dragged around by somebody that shouldn't do it? tonight, as stomach has theresa may had her tail caught by the dpp? what happened to the brexit deal? is it dawned or just on pause? —— dawn. the brexit deal? is it dawned or just on pause? -- dawn. we have reported substantial problems that we re reported substantial problems that were able to advise president juncker two heads of state. we are not quite there now, but i think we can get there. also tonight: the besieged syrian rebel enclave is struck taiwan of the worst bombardments nearly five years. we talk to rescue workers and medics on the ground. and... it might have been damian green. or it might have been someone else. but why aren't we more shocked at the idea of thousands
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of pornographic images being discovered on a work computer? has porn become more socially acceptable? and what effect is that having? we'll discuss. good evening. jean—claude juncker wore his anglophile burberry tie today, a hint that the more eagle—eyed amongst us took to be a sure sign that a deal with britain was imminent. in the end, it was not to be. what looked, sounded and felt like a potential brexit solution to the irish border was put on pause in the briefest of press conferences at around four o' clock this afternoon. the sticking point? what the dup — who prop up theresa may's conservatives — suggested was "sloppy language" on the part of the irish government. from what we understand, ireland had been expecting to sign off a statement that promised a continued regulatory framework north of the border, after britain leaves the eu. but following those stern words
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from dup leader arlene foster, the pm appeared to back track, perhaps fearing she had misjudged the moment. the deal is far from dead. but it needs more time and perhaps — who knows — new concessions to the dup for their support. let's go to nick watt for his take on the day. the prime minister had gone into these talks with downing street describing them as a staging post on the way to the european council next week. but theresa may had hoped to get a deal today and had pencilled in a statement to parliament tomorrow. but it didn't happen because the dup took fright at reports from dublin in the brexit deal, there would be a declaration that there would be no regulatory divergence between northern ireland and the republic of ireland. so what is actually in that deal? well, i understand from the uk side that the deal on northern ireland covers three scenarios from good to bad. the good scenario —
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there is an overall free trade agreement between the uk and the eu at the end of this process, and you get a frictionless board automatically from that very good deal. scenario number two is that if that doesn't happen, then there would be a bespoke arrangement for northern ireland. in the worst—case scenario which the uk government doesn't will happen, what you would then have, if you fail to do that, a declaration that there would be full alignment of those elements that are currently there, cross—border cooperation from the good friday agreement. so that is transport, the single electricity market and agriculture, and then the document says, how do you achieve that? it has two ideas. one is you have harmonisation of regulation, and the other one is you have regulatory equivalents. the uk would want it to be regulatory equivalents because the uk would decide, these are the regulations, but that you would want harmonisation because we would
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just agree with them. so i have been looking at how this row broke out today. love wasn't quite in the air, but a deal appeared to be in sight. theresa may pitched up in brussels for lunch and over the road, donald tusk dared to joke about how much he likes mondays. all seemed fine, until the lunch run over schedule and then broke up without agreement when theresa may and jean—claude juncker finally spoke, it was all over rather quickly. ladies and gentlemen, it was not possible to reach a complete agreement today. he spoke for less than two minutes. thank you very much, jean—claude. on a couple of issues, some differences do remain which require further negotiation. she spoke forjust a0 seconds. hopes of a breakthrough today fell apart over northern ireland. the irish prime minister, who had been planning to hail a deal
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just after lunch, kept his head down for three hours, and then this. following the government meeting this morning, the irish negotiating team receives confirmation from the british government and the barnier task force that the united kingdom had agreed a text on the border that met our concerns. this text would form part of the broader eu — uk agreement on phase one and would allow us all to move on to phase two. i was then contacted by the president of the european commission, presidentjuncker and the president of the european council, president tusk. i confirmed to them both ireland's agreement to that text. i am surprised and disappointed that the british government now appears not to be in a position to conclude what was agreed earlier today. the deal ran into trouble after reports that one draft stated that there would be no divergence in eu rules across the irish border which support the good
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friday agreement. this was clarified, but the dup were furious at what they saw as an attempt to prize northern ireland away from the rest of the uk. we have been very clear. northern ireland must leave the european union on the same terms as the rest of the uk and we will not accept any form of regulatory divergence which separates northern ireland economically or politically from the rest of the uk. the economic and constitutional integrity of the united kingdom must not be compromised. there is frustration in downing street, where there is a feeling that brussels and dublin overhyped the proposed deal. this has, if only temporarily, torpedoed theresa may's efforts to inch forward the brexit negotiations with the support of the dup. so we can expect the prime minister to embark on a charm offensive to reassure the dup that her plans are far more modest.
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at their heart, this would involve embedding in the final brexit deal those elements of cross—border cooperation emanating from the good friday agreement. at the moment, unionists in northern ireland are nervous. well i think it has made things much more difficult, what happened today. if there had been an agreed form of wording with the dup beforehand, it might even have been possible to present it as a joint dup — conservative proposal. so i think it will be very difficult now. in london and dublin, there is hope that a deal will soon be reached. i think today has been successful. we understand that later this week, there is every prospect of a deal, so satisfying the european union that in its words, sufficient progress has been made, which will set us up for a favourable conclusion to the summit on the 15th of december.
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that is what we are working towards. the mood here at westminster at the moment is far more upbeat than i have known it for some time now. so i think with compromise on both sides, because that is the nature of any negotiation, we are set fair for some good news before christmas. we have negotiated in absolute good faith with the entire british negotiating team, david davis and michel barnier will meet again this week. theresa may and jean—claude juncker had a good meeting today and we are hopeful that the prime minister will be able to get this agreement over the line with the dup and other factors in time for the council meeting in december. we wish her every bit of luck and we hope we can get this resolved as soon as possible. we desperately want to move to phase two of the negotiating process. today, the hands of history
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didn't quite meet. all parties in the brexit talks will be hoping we won't have to wait too long for that handshake. so nick, do you think this will be sorted out this week or in time for the summit? we heard andy muir and saying he thought it would happen next week before the summit. the uk government has always believed unofficially that this friday is the deadline to get an agreement, because after that it is very difficult to make substantial changes to a european council draft summit conclusion. so the prime minister will be talking to the dup leader and possibly going to brussels to meetjean—claude juncker and donald tusk again this week. one member of the cabinet said, we are fundamentally in agreement with dublin on this. but this person said, there is a bit of a dance. we are a minority government, and so are they. there are audiences to talk to. but the dup are really upset. i spoke to one senior dup figure at the heart of this, and this person said to me, we in northern ireland cannot have a border with gb. it is our biggest market. we are not stupid. and then i said to this person, is theresa may listening to you?
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and this person said, oh, yes, she has no choice. nick, thanks very much. so, when and how did it all unravel? well, earlier i asked ireland's agriculture minister michael creed what he made of the day's events. well, i suppose in essence we thought we had a deal in the early afternoon and it turns out that we didn't and that's obviously somewhat disappointing but look, i suppose, given the commitment of both sides to further engagement and given the fact that we have a deadline of the december council on the 14th and 15th of december, and given the fact that i think everybody, irish government included, wants us to be in a position to move to phase two, i certainly think that with goodwill on all sides, that can be achieved. i don't want to underestimate the significance of the issues that have yet to be agreed. what do you think actually went wrong today? well, i think in essence, that is probably a question that would be best directed to prime minister may. because we felt, as i indicated,
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that we had the broad outline of an agreement earlier and that sufficient progress could be reported by the european task force to the heads of state. it's obvious that the dup have issues with regard to the island of ireland issues. we have particular issues we have put to the forefront since day one and that's been about ensuring that the uk leaving the european union doesn't give rise to a hard border with the island of ireland. just to understand that, was your understanding this morning that the dup had been signed up to it? because obviously, they were always going to have misgivings about this. so, was your understanding that they were signed up and then they changed their minds or that they've never been signed up and she was going to go ahead with it anyway? look, the negotiations are conducted primarily by the european task force with michel barnier at the helm
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and the uk government. over the weekend, yes, the irish government was heavily involved in the detail on the issues of the island of ireland and in particular our insistence that in the context of phase one of these negotiations, that we get in writing a commitment that there would not be a hard border re—emerging. the dup are critical to power—sharing in northern ireland. wasn't it a mistake to overlook how essential to these talks they were? well, i mean, the dup are one voice in northern ireland which regrettably doesn't have a power—sharing executive in place at the moment. they are a critical voice in the context of the parliamentary arithmetic in westminster. we're not a party to that. we negotiate in the european union with the british government and with prime minister may. so it's not incumbent on the irish government to engage directly, but we are of course open and willing to engage with the dup. in fact, i personally
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believe that our concerns, when they boil down to it, are concerns that are broadly shared by the vast majority of people in northern ireland. newsnight understands this evening that three possible scenarios were on the table for this deal which may still go ahead. either an all—uk deal, free trade with the eu, which would look and sound, i guess, like a soft brexit oi’ a customs union. or a bespoke dealfor northern ireland or some kind of deal that would just look at areas of cross—border co—operation. is that what you understand this deal was about, the cross—border cooperation? well, as i understand, the deal was about ensuring in terms of regulatory alignment, that we did not have the necessity for a border between newry
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and dundalk, between derry and donegal. and, you know, whatever means we employ to achieve that, regulatory alignment, remaining in the customs union or the single market, whatever political invention is required to come up with a solution that delivers on that, you know, that's something we are excessively prescriptive about. but we do know what it is we want. let me try and pin you down on that, because that seems to be where the language is getting confused. the northern ireland agreement, as things stand, only mentions, doesn't it, agriculture, energy and transport. are you wanting to see every regulation across every sector covered by the same eu deal, the north and south? is that where you're heading? is it convergence rather thanjust alignment of what you have? well, i think the terminology that was being used,
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was regulatory alignment. it's important to bear in mind that this isn't in many respects breaking new ground. we have alignment on an all ireland basis at the moment on issues that there isn't alignment between ireland for example and the rest of the united kingdom, for example in the area of animal health we have it, in the area of food safety we have it. so this isn't, you know, revolutionary in its concept. what i'm asking, are you looking for convergence on all of the other areas as well, all the other sectors, or would you be happy to stick with those three specifically mentioned in the northern ireland agreement? no, what we want is a situation where we achieve, in these outcomes, a situation where there isn't a border emerging. we are preoccupied by that, not for trade reasons, but for political reasons.
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