tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News December 5, 2017 9:00am-11:00am GMT
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hello, it's tuesday, it's nine o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. out top story today: after one of britain's smaller political parties vetoed the pm's brexit deal, what might persuade them to back a new agreement on the irish border? a question theresa may needs to find an answer to. . .fast. ‘s government insiders blame a misunderstanding, the dup prepare to play hardball. we'll talk to the democratic unionist party, to a conversative leave mp, and to scotland's snp. whether you voted leave or remain, what do you think of events over the last 2a hours? also on the programme, a warning that sex offenders are using live online streaming platforms to groom children with almost 200 suspects arrested in one week alone. it offers offenders an immediate connection to children and young people, that is one—to—one, it allows them to manipulate children and young people, offer them excitement, sympathy, some connection, emotional connection, involve them with games and trickery. we'll talk to parents whose
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children have been groomed via live streaming sites. if it's happened to someone in yourfamily, do get in touch. have you done anything to monitor or restrict your children's use of streaming apps? and it's been described as a "plague of plastic" destroying life in our oceans. what needs to be done to tackle it? the un is discussing the issue today — we'll talk to them live. hello. welcome to the programme, we're live until 11. we will bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories. a little later we'll hear from kezia dugdale, who's
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been evicted from the i'm a celebrityjungle after lasting just 11 days. she said she wanted to show that politics wasn't all white, male and stale. has she achieved her mission? keen to hear what you thought of her performance — use the hashtag victoria live. our top story today. theresa may will meet her cabinet this morning after returning from brussels last night with no deal to push forward the brexit talks. negotiations came to a halt after the democratic unionist party, who support the conservative government, rejected a proposal to avoid which would have avoided a hard border between northern ireland and the republic. norman smith is in westminster for us this morning. so what kind of wording will satisfy the dup? it is a good question and i think it will need more than clever wording to satisfy the dup because
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they are mightily unhappy at the fa ct they are mightily unhappy at the fact they feel they were almost bounced into accepting something which they regard as a complete non—runner. this idea of regulatory alignment with ireland. basically there should be the same sort of trade and customs rules between north and south. from their point of view, they say we made it clear to mrs may we were never going to accept that because that would have meant different arrangements for northern ireland from the rest of the uk. to constitutional level, that could have threatened northern ireland's position in the uk but more importantly they say our biggest market is with the rest of the uk, not ireland. the part where we wa nt the uk, not ireland. the part where we want no border is with the rest of the uk, not ireland, that's what we are concerned about. they are simply not going to accept so—called
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regulatory equivalents and it doesn't matter how you dress it up, what formulation of words you come up what formulation of words you come up with, there is principle for them here. i think that means this will get very difficult. you remember when mrs may did her deal with the dup to support her government, how difficult and protracted and tents and how long it took, well i think that's going to be all over again exactly the same, but the clock is ticking because we know we have got until next thursday when the eu council meets to reach some sort of agreement. thank you, norman, for the moment. ben is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. thank you, victoria. parents are being warned about the dangers of live streaming apps, after it emerged paedophiles are increasingly using them to manipulate their victims. the caution from the national crime
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agency follows a week—long operation by uk authorities, which led to the arrest of more than 190 people for child sexual abuse. angus crawford reports. hands up all those who have used live streaming. aged 13 and 14, they know about apps which let children broadcast live from their phones. today, they are talking about how to do it safely. somebody could be trying to trick you. the apps are quick to download, easy to use. these pupils could go live in the playground, the street or even their own bedrooms. sometimes it can be quite dangerous because if someone is following someone they don't know, they will be able to see it. like, you don't know who is watching you. the real problem with some of these apps is there is no proper checking of age identification so that means a live streaming service with a 17 rating could be used by children as young as this or even younger, eight or nine. look at this. a boy and a girl on periscope. now read the comments. we don't want to identify them.
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she isjust nine. almost 1,000 people are watching and they're mostly adult men. we can't show you the worst of the comments. periscope told us it had zero tolerance for this kind of behaviour but we found it on other apps too and for the children caught up in it, the consequences can be devastating. i found her inconsolable. this is an actress but the words are true. those of a mother whose 10—year old daughter tried out the app 0megle for fun. he switched his webcam on, showed him her private parts and asked her to take photos of herself, which she did. she was terrified by what had happened and scared of what she'd done. it offers offenders an immediate connection to children and young people that then allows them
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to manipulate children and young people, offer them excitement, sympathy, connection, emotional connection, involve them with games and trickery and we see children getting basically manipulated to do things that ultimately they are very uncomfortable about and don't want to do. a campaign video launched today warning about the dangers of live streaming aimed at young people and their parents and posing a stark question — when children broadcast live to the world from their own bedrooms, can they really stay safe? angus crawford, bbc news. a total ban on plastic waste entering the ocean is being considered by environment ministers from around the world at a un meeting in the kenyan capital nairobi this week. more than 8 million tonnes of
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plastic is dumped in the ocean annually. the un's head of oceans has described plastic pollution as a "planetary emergency". the white house has put off a decision on whether to break with other countries and recognise jerusalem as the capital of israel. but a spokesman said it was a matter of when, not if, the us embassy would move tojerusalem from tel aviv. both israelis and palestinians claim jerusalem as their capital. arab and muslim nations in the region have warned against any unilateral decision. seniorjudges in the united states have ruled that president donald trump's travel ban on six mainly muslim countries can go into full effect, pending legal challenges. president trump originally imposed the ban on travellers from chad, iran, libya, somalia, syria and yemen injanuary, prompting mass protests and several legal challenges. the supreme court has now ruled by seven votes to two in favour of the ban. a group of fishermen from the isle of wight found guilty of trying to smuggle more than 50 million of pounds of cocaine into the country have lost a key
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review of their case. the criminal cases review commission, which investigates miscarriages ofjustice, says unless new evidence is found there is no real possibility of overturning the convictions. families and supporters of the group say they are bitterly disappointed. rail fares are set to rise by an average of 3.4% from the new year. the increase, which is below the rate of inflation, will take effect from january 2nd. the group, which represents train operators, said 97% of money from fares goes back into improving and running the railway. nearly a fifth of patients are regularly missing gp appointments, with younger people being the worst offenders, according to a new study by the lancet public health journal. the problem's estimated to cost the nhs at least
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162 million pounds a year. the director of the new freddie mercury biopic, bohemian rhapsody, has been fired due to "unreliable behaviour". in a statement, twentieth century fox said bryan singer was no longer the director of the film. a source told the bbc the main reason for the decision was "a pattern of unreliable behaviour on set". but singer said he was ill and that the studio was unwilling to accommodate him during that time. the singer and strictly come dancing contestant alexandra burke has hit back at allegations that she's a diva backstage. taking to twitter, she said the the sun had published lies about her after there were claims she had a heated backstage bust—up with her dancing partner gorka marquez ahead of this weekend's dance—off. the sun say they stand by their story. it was the second week the pair were bottom two in the competition. that's a summary of the latest bbc news, more at 9.30am. thank you, i want germany to win for
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what it's worth. john says, hats off to the dup for putting their foot down. why should we be bullied by europe and now ireland. —— i want gemma to win. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live. let's get some sport withjessica. what's the latest in the cricket? do england realistically have a chance? the total of 354 runs to win, wickets have been tumbling today for both teams. there was a faint glimmer of hope for england but it looks to be fading. james anderson finished with five wickets as australia were bowled out for 138.
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that gave england the chance, they now a new 350 forward level the ashes series. they started well, 53 for the first wicket but lbw here. i—run later, mark stoneman was also out, after—dinnerjames vince was caught in the slips. england currently on three, victoria. do they realistically have a chance? england have never chased this many i’u ns england have never chased this many runs ina england have never chased this many runs in a test match before. 0ther teams have so it's not impossible but it is very unlikely. captainjoe root is at the crease at the moment and how big the moment is this in his career? a chance to write his name into history if he leads england towards that record chase. think back to how pivotal the
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australian captain steve smith's unbeaten century was in the first test, that is exactly what england need now. joe root is currently on 33. and nine years late but kelly sotherton will be getting a bronze medalfrom the beijing 0lympics? yes, quite incredible, the fall out from the russian doping scandal and kelly sotherton is the latest victim, set to be awarded that 0lympic bronze medal nine years late. it's all because the russian athlete lost her doping appeal. kelly sotherton originally finished fifth in that event but two athletes have had their results annulled. actually it is the second 0lympic bronze she has been awarded after the fact from beijing. she got the 4x4 hundred metre relay medal as well. kelly sotherton had won bronze in the athens 0lympics, well. kelly sotherton had won bronze in the athens olympics, and when you look at this it is a big mess. the
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ioc have caught more than 100 athlete since retesting samples from 2008 and 2012. thank you, jess. more from digest throughout the morning and she will keep an eye on england for you. and she will keep an eye on england foryou. —— and she will keep an eye on england for you. —— more and she will keep an eye on england foryou. —— more from and she will keep an eye on england for you. —— more from jess. families say it's a huge miscarriage of justice, yet a group of fishermen from the isle of wightjailed for trying to smuggle more than £50 million of cocaine into the country have lost the latest fight in their campaign to get their convictions overturned. the official body which investigates miscarriages ofjustice, the criminal cases review commission, has decided not to refer the drug smuggling cases to the court of appeal, rejecting what the mens' lawyer says is new evidence showing their fishing boat was not near enough to pick up 12 rucksacks containing 560lb of cocaine from a brazilian container ship. families of the five men who were each jailed for up to 24 years say they're bitterly disappointed but have promised to fight on.
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jim reed has this exclusive report. it's one of the largest drug plots in british legal history. for two years now, we have been covering this case. a group of fishermen in prison for trying to smuggle millions of pounds of cocaine into the country. when you found out what he was being accused of and charged with, what was your reaction? oh, it's ridiculous. what? it's just a stupid mistake and he'll be home. but he never came home. he didn't come home. he hasn't been home since the 18th january, 2011. we have had exclusive access to a team of campaigning lawyers pushing hard for a retrial. what we have discovered calls this conviction into question in the most serious way imaginable.
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spoken to one of the jurors in the original trial. i was convinced beyond any reasonable doubt at the time. now i am convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever. and for the first time, heard from the man reviewing those guilty verdicts. so they still could have collected the drugs? i think so. more importantly, probably i think the court of appeal would have thought so. may 2010, and a fishing boat pulls out of yarmouth harbour on the isle of wight. it's early evening and a storm is drawing in. do we know who the sao is? elsewhere in the channel, a major surveillance operation is under way. soca, the serious organised crime agency, has intelligence that cocaine is onboard a giant container ship. a day later, the fishermen were arrested, charged with picking up the drugs in high seas and hiding them here in this bay.
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the five men were found guilty at trial, and given long sentences of up to 24 years each. my heart was pounding, like it was going to come out of my mouth. i was devastated. absolutely devastated. and even more so when you heard the reaction of the families. it's heartbreaking. richard yardley was a juror in that trial. the only one of the 12 who found the men not guilty. there were a lot of things wrong about that case. loads. you want to do the right thing. i took myjob as a juror very, very seriously. it doesn't necessarily end when the verdict goes through. how convinced are you now, looking back, seven years now? even more convinced. i was convinced beyond any reasonable doubt at the time. now i am convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever. i have absolutely no doubt that these men are entirely
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innocent of this crime. the case against the men was never straight forward. a forensic search of the boats could not find a single trace of cocaine. instead, the defence team think the conviction was based on two key pieces of evidence. first, navigational data, which showed the fishing boat manoeuvring behind the container ship, long enough for the drugs to be thrown overboard and picked up. and then the testimony of two police officers on these cliffs as something was dropped off the side of the boat, near to where the drugs were later found. 0urjob at this charity is to get to the truth about a case. we represent prisoners as lawyers, but we investigate cases like police officers do. for years emily bolton worked on death row cases in america. now she runs the centre for criminal appeals, a small charity based in london. in this case, every stone
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that we have unturned has pointed in the direction this conviction is unsafe. but to get her clients a retrial, she has to show the prosecution case was flawed, and that means finding new evidence to put before the ccrc. that is the criminal cases review commission. it's demanding, less than 1% of the cases that get this far end up being retried. this process, for a lawyer who has practised in the united states, is extremely frustrating. the questions that the experts examining the case in post—conviction have thrown up are not being answered. that night seven years ago, the fishing boat, the galwad, did have its navigational system switched on, recording its exact position. charts used in court, and accepted by both sides at trial, appear to show the boat crossing the path of the container ship. around the same time, calls were made from a mobile phone on the mainland to the satellite
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phone on the fishing boat. the navigation data that was presented to the jury was crucial to them in reaching a conviction. that's because it was identified by thejudge in his summing up as a primary factor in the case. emily says new analysis of the data suggests the container ship adjusted its course earlier than thought, so would never have come into contact with the fishing boat. the implication of the tracks not crossing in this case is absolutely fundamental. if the tracks didn't cross, they didn't smuggle the drugs. but she needs to convince the people reviewing the case at the ccrc and they say the defence team's analysis has changed over time and can't prove the men are innocent. if it was the case that the boat was still in the harbour when the big boat went past then obviously that would be significant, but here we are talking about an extra distance now. they say that the boat was 175 metres away from the big boat, and in our view thatjust didn't
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make a difference. so they still could have collected the drugs? i think so. as the men sailed through the channel, a series of calls were made to the fishing boat from a mobile bought that day with a fake name. the fishermen say a new member of the crew, a migrant worker, had fallen ill and was trying to call a contact for help. hello. hello darling, you all right? yes. good. yes, we're 0k. those fishermen involved didn't make obvious suspects. four of the five convicted were local. all had no serious criminal records. the older two were family men, with young children. 24 years in prison. you start thinking, what the hell are we going to do? the defence team then turned their attention to the second key piece of evidence. the drugs search in the channel was a major operation. there was a border agency ship, and two surveillance planes.
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as the fishing boat sailed back, it passed through freshwater bay. two hampshire police officers say they were stationed here on these cliffs, keeping watch. they called in on their radio to say they were seeing six to seven items thrown off the boat at intervals. the fishermen say they may have been chucking waste overboard at the time. from my point of view, they have been convicted on one piece of evidence, which i do not believe actually happened. and all the evidence that i see supports the fact it didn't happen. don dewar is a retired surveillance officer. he worked for soca, the serious organised crime agency, the same unit leading the search that day. he's now working unpaid as an expert witness for the charity's defence team. is it credible that in an operation of this scale that the surveillance would be left to two hampshire police officers on that hill?
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not possible. it would be negligent to do so. especially the resources that had gone in, with the cutter and two fixed wing aircraft. after saying they saw items dropped off the side of the fishing boats, everything then went quiet. those two police look—outs on the cliff left the area. it wasn't until the next morning that the coastguard received a call. another local fisherman had found 11 brightly coloured sacks tied around his buoy in the same bay. they were full of cocaine. the soca officer in charge then met the two hampshire policemen in a car park, so they could change their entry in the official surveillance log. instead of six to seven items, it became ten to 12 items, the size of that holdall, tied together in a line, followed by a buoy. an exact description of what had been found that morning. a picture of a bag recovered and brought to a police vessel.
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changing a surveillance log is allowed so officers can clarify what was seen. to the defence team, though it seems the authorities were trying to fit together a case against the men. it is not possible, if these rucksacks came over the side, several officers would have witnessed it and it would have been recorded correctly. i can think of no occasion when i have worked with police, soca or customs and excise officers it would be a precis after the event. what would you have done as a surveillance officer, how would you have run that operation? i would've had highly trained officers in locations all the way along the headland. i certainly wouldn't be leaving that to two untrained hampshire police officers. a series of complaints were later brought against the officers involved. they were cleared of serious wrongdoing. the ccrc says it could find no evidence of police deception. you have got to find something amounting to serious misconduct,
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clear bad faith, so you know, very, very dishonest acts by these officers, and while there was some evidence of they hadn't followed all the correct procedures, i think we tend to the view at the ccrc that that was a mistake, rather than malice. there is no evidence they actually conspired or anything like that? no, nothing at all. believe me, we have looked hard, and if it was there, i think we would have found it. for the defence team, though, there are many questions outstanding, and together they still add up to serious doubts about the conviction. isn't it more likely that your clients here are simply guilty? the police's job is to detect crime, and to bring the perpetrators to justice. if they bring the wrong people to court for the crime, they have not served their purpose, and that is why we have a court of appeal, to determine whether that's happened or not. when this case did get to trial, 11 of the 12 people on the jury found the men guilty. but for one, serious doubts remained. there was very little evidence against them.
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what evidence there was, was very circumstantial. after the verdicts, the only person to find the men not guilty wrote two letters. 0ne alleging someone at soca tried to interfere with the first court case. if proven, that would almost certainly result in a mistrial. richard's accusation was then heard in appeal court by three judges. what you said at the time, or what you said in your letter was that a member of soca, in the unit. yes. had taken a juror aside, and when they realised that they were involved in this case, had said, "look, we know these guys are guilty." yes. that's a serious accusation. yes, basically, he said to them, "they're guilty." but after an investigation, three judges said there was no support for his allegation. they questioned his credibility, and ruled his evidence could not be relied upon.
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what i don't understand is nobody in that appeal court ever asked themselves the question, "what has this guy got to gain by going through all of this? by writing these two letters? why would he go to all that trouble unless what he is saying is the truth?" why? without a fresh breakthrough, though, the defence team's options are now becoming limited. the people reviewing the case at the ccrc say based on what they have seen so far, there's no reason to refer the case back to court for a possible retrial. the defence team's argument is, look at all these pieces put together, and that does raise bigger concerns about the safety of the conviction in this case. yes, and we have considered it in that light as well, but there was this very strong, albeit mainly circumstantial case, that the people on the boat were the ones who collected the drugs. this isn't the end of the road.
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there is still the chance for some of the men to appeal directly to a judge, or, if new evidence suddenly emerges, for the men, their families and their supporters then, this case is farfrom over. after 10am, we'll be talking to families of some of the fishermen. also still to come: we will bring you a fairly bad tempered interview between a conservative and snp politician and we will tell you everything you need to know about the phrase regulatory alignment which is proving to be a headache for theresa may. negotiations are one—sided says this viewer. we are giving too much and the eu are giving nothing in return. we must be strong and walk away. they will soon come running after us. they will soon come running after us. stevie on e—mail, "finally the english are finding out what the
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majority of northern irish people knew with the dup pact. they are not interested in only what is best for northern ireland." the un oceans chief is warning that the rising tide of plastic in our seas is at epic levels. we'll be looking at how bad the problem has become. ." we we will be asking if it's too late. time for the latest news, here's ben. theresa may will meet with her cabinet this morning after returning from brussels last night with no deal to push forward the brexit talks. negotiations came to a halt after the democratic unionist party, who support the conservative government, said it would not accept a deal which saw northern ireland treated differently from the rest of the uk. parents are being warned about the dangers of live streaming apps after it emerged paedophiles are using it to
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manipulate their victims. the warning from the national crime agency follows a week—long operation by uk authorities which led to the arrest of more than 190 people for child sexual abuse offences. the white house has put off a decision on whether to break with the international community and recognise jerusalem as the capital of israel. but a spokesman said it was a matter of when, not if, the us embassy would move tojerusalem from tel aviv. both israelis and palestinians claim jerusalem as their capital. arab and muslim nations in the region have warned against any unilateral decision. meanwhile seniorjudges in the united states have ruled that president donald trump's travel ban on six mainly muslim countries can go into full effect, pending legal challenges. president trump originally imposed the ban on travellers from chad, iran, libya, somalia, syria and yemen injanuary, prompting mass protests and several legal challenges. the supreme court has now ruled by seven votes to two in favour of the ban. that's a summary of the latest bbc news.
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some sport now withjessica. england need of record test run chase to rescue the second ashes test against australia. james vince was the last wicket to fall in adelaide. joe root up now. 108-3. adelaide. joe root up now. 108—3. russia will be banned from the winter olympics, they missed rio because of state—sponsored doping. it will be decided whether they have changed enough to compete in south korea. kelly sotherton will be awarded the bronze medalfrom korea. kelly sotherton will be awarded the bronze medal from the 2008 olympic games, after the russian athlete lost an appeal against a doping violation. and judd trump has been knocked out of the uk snooker championship in york, beaten 6—2 in the third round
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by graham. —— graeme dott. thank you. in the space of the last few months theresa may called a snap general election so that she could boost her majority of mps and therefore she said get a better brexit deal. that didn't go to plan and she ended up instead losing her majority. in order to try and cling to power, she then did a deal with northern ireland's democratic unionist party — a party of ten mps — handing them £1 billion in funding effectively in exchange for their support. it is that deal with the dup which has now prevented theresa may from securing a brexit deal. the sticking point is over the northern ireland border issue and something called regulatory alignment. it's a mouthful, regulatory alignment, and it is meant to be a phrase so vague it would keep eve ryo ne phrase so vague it would keep everyone happy, only it seems to have left almost everyone unhappy.
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so what is it meant to mean? it's meant to signal that existing customs rules between northern ireland and ireland will stay roughly the same after brexit. in other words there would be no new border checks, customs controls or tiresome extra paperwork. sounds simple, if only! because all sides have different takes on regulatory alignment. to the irish government it means there will be no need for a border between north and south. to the british government it means there will only be a light touch border with limited customs checks. to the dup however it means northern ireland risks being hived off from the rest of the uk. theirfear, that regulatory alignment is being used by some in dublin to pave the way for a united ireland. so what happens now? someone is going to
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have to come up with a new phrase and perhaps we will alljust have to forget about regulatory alignment. instead of a celebratory press conference yesterday, the prime minister and european commission presidentjean claude junker had this to say. both sides have been working hard, in good faith. we have been negotiating hard, and a lot of progress has been made, and on many of the issues there is a common understanding, and it is clear, crucially, that we want to move forward together. but on a couple of issues some differences do remain, which require further negotiation, and consultation. she is a tough negotiator, and not an easy one. she's defending the point of view of britain, with all the energy we know she has, and i'm doing the same on the side of the european union. that was yesterday.
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this morning, snp leader nicola sturgeon has said: this could be a moment to push to keep the whole of the uk in the single market and customs union. in the last half an hour the leader of the scottish tories has called on may to look at regulatory alignment for the whole of the uk — not just northern ireland. earlier we got reaction from an snp and tory politician, michael russell, an msp and scottish government minister for uk negotiations on scotland's place in europe, and david jones, former brexit minister. the reality of the situation is the only sensible step, apart from staying in the eu which is a really sensible step because this is a waste of time and money. it might be for you but what about the people who voted for it? they were sold a
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pup- who voted for it? they were sold a pup. is that patronising? as we now know, there were a lot of lies told. it will damagejobs. know, there were a lot of lies told. it will damage jobs. in scotland the people didn't vote for it, we voted substantially against it and a poll yesterday showed an even larger majority against it so the sensible thing is to stop, look at this and save the sensible thing is not to do it but if they are still hell—bent on doing it, at least do it in the way that is least damaging. we now coming out of the customs union will be very damaging and now we see the only way to square the circle in ireland is to be in the single market and customs union so let's be sensible. let me bring in david jones, former brexit minister. i don't know if you caught what mr russell was saying but the snp are saying "this is the moment now for
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britain to push to stay in the single market and customs union because that is the most sensible and satisfies everybody". we have already triggered the article 50 process to leave the european union... you can stay in the single market and customs union if you make that choice. of course you can. you can stay. your customary rudeness does not help on this occasion. the fa ct does not help on this occasion. the fact is if we are leaving the european union we will be leaving the single market, customs union and cease to be subject... only because mrs may made that choice. no, because that's what leaving the european union means, ceasing to be bound by the european treaties. we could seek to negotiate some form of access or arrangement with the customs union but that is a wholly
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separate negotiation, not something we can elect to do because we have started the process of leaving. do you think the unravelling of this deal makes theresa may look ridiculous? it was a difficult day for her but today is another day and she will be speaking to the dup... did she not speak to them ahead of that launch? clearly there was a misunderstanding between the government's position and the dup. i'm sorry to interrupt but how is that possible? how could there be a misunderstanding, what do you mean? quite clearly downing street and the dup were not on the same page as far as this was concerned. how is that possible? i'm not the person to ask. dear oh dear. i can hear mr russell's intervention and he's probably been the least productive
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of anyone i have met. you have been led to disaster by people like david jones who haven't a clue. led to disaster by people like david jones who haven't a cluelj led to disaster by people like david jones who haven't a clue. i will come back to you in a moment, mr russell. did the dup do the right thing, mrjones? clearly they have a duty to their electors in northern ireland and they want to make sure that whatever arrangements are put in place are satisfactory to them. why do you think mrs may thought it would be acceptable to stay in the single market and customs union in all but name in northern ireland? again, i'm not the person to ask because the people to ask other people who are advising mrs may.- you think that was a good idea? clearly there should have been clarity. of course but the principle of what was being suggested, do you back that? no, ithink it's
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extremely difficult to see how you can have wholly separate arrangements for northern ireland as against the rest of the uk, but nevertheless of course northern ireland has always been a very special case and special arrangements have for some time been made over the border. therefore you can understand the snp saying if there's going to be a distinct and unique dealfor there's going to be a distinct and unique deal for northern there's going to be a distinct and unique dealfor northern ireland as opposed to a uk wide deal, can we have a distinct deal for scotland. bearin have a distinct deal for scotland. bear in mind the snp is a party of nationalists whose aim is to break up nationalists whose aim is to break up the united kingdom. but you could argue after what mrs may was suggesting yesterday that that was leading to the uk. —— to the break—up of the uk. leading to the uk. —— to the break-up of the uk. whenever we are dealing with northern ireland we have to be extremely careful to reflect the political realities.
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final thought from you on what will happen now. david jones doesn't know what he's talking about it, he is making a mess of it and so are the people around him. in the name of god, stop this nonsense because we are being led to disaster by people like david jones. mr russell was probably the biggest impediment in the negotiations in the devolved negotiations and he's just displayed why he is a danger to the whole process of brexit. this isjust nonsense. i am going to leave it there but thank you for your time, i appreciate it. david jones and michael russell, thank you. both sides say they are hopeful a deal can be reached by the end of the week, how likely is that? let's get reaction from belfast. what form of words do you think will
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be acceptable to the dup to solve this issue? i think you are dealing here with a form of words which had in them, it's often described as creative ambiguity. what unionists across northern ireland, and the dup is the largest party, they are looking for clarity, looking for certainty and what they are quite firm about is that northern ireland should be in no way differentiated from the rest of the united kingdom in this process because yesterday the talk was around alignment and convergence with the irish republic and with the eu and that convergence would produce divergence from the rest of the uk. as your graphic
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earlier showed, that would lead in effect to a redrawing of the border between northern ireland and the sea and the rest of the uk. so that more than a misunderstanding?” and the rest of the uk. so that more than a misunderstanding? i find this difficult to understand today. it is somewhat bizarre. if you go back to 0ctober somewhat bizarre. if you go back to october and the conservative party conference, during the conference arlene foster was interviewed and she was very clear there would be no question of northern ireland accepting a border of the sea. there was no question of it then, that was repeated on several occasions by her deputy leader nigel dodds, and also some other mp5. deputy leader nigel dodds, and also some other mps. absolutely, but arlene foster you would have thought would have been briefed on the proposed agreement in advance, wouldn't you ? perhaps proposed agreement in advance, wouldn't you? perhaps that was too general briefing, i don't know. this goes back to the belfast agreement
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and even beyond. there has been a tendency by westminster negotiators to come up with phrases and terminology that is really about creative ambiguity. it means one person takes one view of it and another person takes another view. i suspect there may have been some hope, some expectation by the negotiators around downing street and westminster that if they came up with a form of words they could sell it to northern ireland is one thing and sell it to the irish republic as something different and they would get away with it, and that doesn't work. we need certainty. this is an important issue. we need cooperation between the uk and the irish republic. when the previous taoiseach enda kenny was there, there was a different approach to things. in the summer he retired and
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was replaced under the whole mood changed. there are some asking why a small northern ireland political party of just ten small northern ireland political party ofjust ten mps is able to call the shots on this. it's not just a question of one political party with ten seats, they have a significance in westminster and it shows the importance of taking seats at westminster. sinn fein don't take their seats at westminster, but we are talking about one of the constituent parts of the uk and when theresa may became prime minister she stood on the steps of downing street and spoke about being the prime minister of great britain and northern ireland. it is part of the uk and deserves similar treatment to the rest of the uk. that's hiving off divergence with the rest of the uk outside the european union and northern ireland locked into the republic and into the eu but with no
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real say in things would create a second—class situation for northern ireland. jan says, "we were told so many different things that it now seems clear nobody had a clue." emma tweets, "the conservatives haven't a clue. we are being led into a dayser. those in northern ireland are allowed to stay in the eu, while the rest are led into the abyss." another says geraintjones is an utter embarrassment. after 10am, we'll talk to the second contestant voted out of i'm a celebrity, former leader of scottish labour kezia dugdale who says she has no regrets and knows she now has to make amends with labour colleagues and voters. next, a warning that sex offenders are grooming children as they live video stream on apps like periscope, facebook live and musical.ly. in just one week, police say they arrested 192 suspects
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across the uk on suspicion of child sexual abuse offences and prevented 345 children from coming to harm. 30% of those cases involved streaming, blackmail and grooming. live video—streaming is like live tv. users log onto the app, turn on the live—streaming feature, aim the camera on themselves and broadcast to whoever is following them. police say offenders often use tricks or dares, the offer of online gifts or threats to try to manipulate young people into taking their clothes off on camera and their use by online sex offenders is increasing. let's talk to zoe hilton from the national crime agency. john staines who has had a long career in child protection and law enforcement. in essex is rebecca dilliway with her daughter emily who is 11 and was approached by someone trying to blackmail her on one streaming app.
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in illinois is brad summer whose seven—year—old daughter was approached by a paedophile on the live streaming app. i'm going to start with brad. thank you for talking to our british audience. while your daughter was using one particular app she was approached by someone who wasn't who they said they were. tell us what happened. sure. she was on one of the live streaming apps and basically having a good time with her friends basically having a good time with herfriends and basically having a good time with her friends and friends of her cousins and they are all in the underage ten group and she got a friend request from a person claiming to be nine years old. she accepted that friend request and later to come to find out that this person was not a nine—year—old. they continuously tried to get her to do things in private. we are showing our audience some of the screen
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shots you took of the kind of messages. effectively this person was asking her to take her clothes off? right. she knew better luckily. a lot of kids don't know what to do in that situation. we were fortunate enough to have a great line of communication with our daughter. i think that's key with children using the apps is making sure that your children feel comfortable enough to come to you and that's what our daughter did. luckily and we're able to speak to you today to let you know, to be on the look out. yes. you sent a message to this man and we assume it's a man. "i am her father and i am a police. we have documented your ip address and location i recommend you refrain from any other contact." you got in touch with the app. they are based ina touch with the app. they are based in a different country to you. how did you find the experience of trying to get the company to act and what was it that you wanted them to do and please don't name them because we need to give them a right
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of reply. understood. so, we had a ha rd of reply. understood. so, we had a hard time getting hold of them. i would have thought with the publicity that this obtained that they would have at least attempted to get hold of us. we finally did reach out to a member of their operations group and they weren't too forthcoming with wanting to help out. honestly, i believe it's more about their income than their fanbase or their safety. ok. brad, i'm going to bring in rebecca and emily who had a sort of similar experience. hello both of you. thank you very much for coming on the programme. hi, emily niece to talk to you. i know emily you downloaded an app on your phone without your mum knowing, but you did go to your mum knowing, but you did go to your mum when you started to get
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inappropriate and then threatening messages, didn't you? what kind of things were the messages saying? like, are you single? and then i just didn't reply and then like, it wasjust weird because just didn't reply and then like, it was just weird because they were just asking me like questions. like, are you single? where do you live? all that. and how did that make you feel? very frightened, but then i just showed mum and she dealt with it. rebecca, what kind of messages did you see? it started off with, "you are pretty. " did you see? it started off with, "you are pretty." and then it asked if she was single and then it said, "i would do anything for you." and then because she hadn't responded it turned quite aggressive. threatening that he was going to harm her family. she shouldn't tell anybody and that includes friends, family or police. he could find out where she lives. she should turn her location
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settings off and he would track her down and they sent photos as if he was trying to track her. he was in the process of like already in the process of... we couldn't see what it was, but it looked like he was hacking her phone or ipad. what do you think about that as emily's mum 0h, you think about that as emily's mum oh, i you think about that as emily's mum 0h, iwas you think about that as emily's mum oh, i was furious. so, you think about that as emily's mum 0h, iwas furious. so, as you think about that as emily's mum oh, i was furious. so, as soon as she showed me, i said, "you are now dealing with her mum.". she showed me, i said, "you are now dealing with her mum." . emily is not bothered by you and we will be taking it further." let me bring in zoe and john. hello. is this a new online threat to children? well, with live streaming we're seeing the intensification really of the old threats. so offenders have always tried to groom and manipulate children online. they have always tried to make a connection with children that's unmoderated that's away from their parents and use that connection and that manipulation,
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but i think with live streaming, because it's so immediate, you can switch it on. you have that immediate live visual broadcast. it can be to one on one. it can be with multiple people. offenders are really exploiting that kind of immediacy, the fact that it's not moderated and the fact that it's exciting for children and young people and really i think that's, it's the intensification of the threat that we are seeing. at nca we are seeing 100 a month of what we would call high—risk cases. cases where children and young people have been abused and exploited online. are you able to track down the suspects? we do in those cases. our priority is safeguarding it the child and working with the parents and then targeting the offender and if we have enough evidence, we can do so, yeah. right. but that must be ha rd to do so, yeah. right. but that must be hard to track them down? it can be very difficult. they could be anywhere in the world. it can be very difficult. 192 arrests, that
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was targeted at offending against children and 30% of that was using live streaming. so we do have methods that we can use to target this kind of offending, but obviously, as you say, it is a global threat so we really, really need to work on our prevention and you are education and that's why we have launched our live skills resources. there is resources for pa rents resources. there is resources for parents and carers of children and young people to educate them about live streaming and the new thaet that they need to be aware of, but for teachers. i'm going to go back to brad and rebecca in a moment to see how their behaviour changed as a result of their experience. john, how do children go about spotting when someone might not be who they say they are? children are good. they realise. the biggest problem is once they find an offender online, it is how they deal with t like zoe said with the education, they can't turn to no one. and a message we deal with a lot in our training and
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we deal with a lot in our training and we spoke to 10,000 children in the la st we spoke to 10,000 children in the last year is all about stranger dangerand last year is all about stranger danger and reinventing that story and educating the parents and that's where it goes wrong because they don't understand that. we tell our children if they are in the real world that someone will come up with sweets and someone may say, "come and see my puppies." the children understand that story. online when someone gives them a sweet, an app... points, diamonds. they tell their parents and the parents ban their parents and the parents ban the game and take the device away and punish them. that can't be right, because we don't understand, we right, because we don't understand, we don't understand why they are doing t it is not our world. we can pa re nt doing t it is not our world. we can parent everything else in life. we might not be scared, but we might be getting rid of the device for a bit. that's the problem, isn't it? rebecca, how have you changed the way you behave with devices? i mean, you know, emily downloaded the app without your knowledge. have you changed settings? what have you done? yes, she also has instagram
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and we went straight on to instagram and we went straight on to instagram and put all the security settings on. deleted loads of people that she didn't know that she was just accepting. so the only people she is friends with now and they were just her school friends and me so i follow her on instagram and it's on my phone too. there is no other live streaming apps on her phone that she is allowed to use anymore. is that the right decision, emily? how agree with that? yeah, i totally agree. yes, it really frightened her. the two nights after it what happened, she couldn't go to bed on her own. she thought efficiency going to come and try and get her or harm the family. she was really worried. brad as the told the suspect that was targeting your daughter, you are a police officer, you are a dad, you knew how to document his ip address. have you changed your behaviour or were you
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happy with the way you were supervising hur daughter? i'm happy that my daughter listened to the way that my daughter listened to the way that i was supervising her, but i can tell you that you know tracking these people down, it is difficult. imean, it these people down, it is difficult. i mean, it takes an international co—operation to find these people and that's kind of road block we hit was that you know, issuing subpoenas for ip addresses out there, governments approving those to grab these suspects was probably the most difficult challenge that we came across. to the point of with the fear of a child getting in trouble for the app, fear of a child getting in trouble forthe app, i fear of a child getting in trouble for the app, i think that's the numberone for the app, i think that's the number one thing that you need to reiterate to your children, they wouldn't be in trouble, or if you delete the apps, they have friends and they're not going to tell you if that happens on a friend's phone.
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sure. open communication is crucial in these situations. that's a stre good point. thank you very much, brad, thanks rebecca, thanks emily, thank you john and thank you zoe from the national crime agency. your experience is welcome, of course, how do you monitor and how do you supervise when your children are using the live streaming apps, or are they in their bedroom with their mates doing whatever they want to did and potentially being vulnerable to suspects out there. the latest news and sport at 10am. before that, here is the weather. we are in for changeable weather conditions. we are looking at a fine and mild start. in the middle of the week, it becomes wet and windy and it will be colder with some of us seeing snow. today, you can see we have got the yellow across us. that's milder air. tomorrow, we will have it. it will be the far south on thursday and the cold air pushes
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across the uk during friday and also into the weekend. so this morning a lot of cloud around. one or two brighter breaks here there. most notably across north—east england and eastern and north—east scotland. we have got a peppering of showers on high ground. the rain that we have coming in across the north—west will become established as we head through the afternoon and turn heavier and persistent. it is going to be accompanied by strengthening winds. move south of that, we are into drier conditions with some showers on the hills and again, the brightest conditions across eastern scotla nd brightest conditions across eastern scotland and north—east england. further south, we could see one or two brighter breaks develop, but they will be fairly transient as the cloud comes and goes during the day and with temperatures up to ten celsius, they are bang on where they should be at this stage in december. through this evening and overnight we continue with the wet and windy conditions across the north of scotland. come south, we're looking ata scotland. come south, we're looking at a lot of cloud, some showers, particularly in the west and no real
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problems lows of six to nine celsius. you may find fog first thing in the morning. tomorrow we start off on a dry, but cloudy note. we have the rain across northern scotland. still windy and one front comes across us. another one coming in behind it. as you can see on wednesday, we are in the milder conditions. the wind will become a feature. it will be a feature on wednesday, but even more so as we head on through the night and into thursday with the potential for storm —force thursday with the potential for storm—force winds across the north and the north—west of scotland and the wind dragging the rain quite quickly away on to the near continent leaving behind it a lot of dry weather, but some showers. across parts of northern scotland, some of the showers will be falling as snow, progressively to lower levels through the day and we could see a peppering of wintriness in the showers coming in from the west. as we head into friday, again, it's the east coast that will see a mixture
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of rain, sleet and snow showers, we will see some more snow coming in across the north and the west and away from the coast some of that will accumulate. it will be cold. that three celsius you saw in newcastle will feel more like minus three. hello it's tuesday, it's ten o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. our main story this morning: progress on brexit has stalled after one of britain's smallest political parties vetoed the pm's brexit deal over the irish border. the snp says one way to solve the issue is to stay in the single market, but not everyone agrees. it's extremely difficult to do that because we've already triggered the article 50 process to leave the european union. you can stay in the single market and customs union if you make that choice. you can't actually. yes you can. yes you can. we will get reaction from the snp.
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what are your thoughts of events over the last 24 hours? ocean plastic is a planetary crisis — so says the un — it wants tougher action on plastic entering the seas. a mother is holding her newborn young, it's dead. the un is holding a summit in kenya today and we'll be speaking to them this hour. a group of fishermen from the isle of wight who say their conviction for smuggling 50 million pounds of cocaine into the uk is a miscarriage ofjustice — have lost a key review of their case. we'll be speaking to the men's families shortly. here's ben in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news.
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good morning. theresa may will meet with her cabinet and officials from the democratic unionist party after returning from brussels last night with no deal to push forward the brexit talks. negotiations came to a halt after the dup, who support the conservative government, said it would not accept a deal which saw northern ireland treated differently from the rest of the uk. ministers are insisting they are close to an agreement. we have made a lot of progress, over the last weeks we have made tremendous steps forward. we are very close but not there yet. a total ban on plastic waste entering the ocean is being considered by environment ministers from around the world at a un meeting in the kenyan capital nairobi this week. more than eight million tonnes of plastic is dumped in the ocean annually, with china responsible for around a quarter of it. the un has described the issue as a planetary emergency. the white house has put off a decision on whether to break with the international community and recognise jerusalem as the capital of israel. but a spokesman said it was a matter of when, not if, the us embassy would move
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tojerusalem from tel aviv. both israelis and palestinians claim jerusalem as their capital. arab and muslim nations in the region have warned against any unilateral decision. meanwhile seniorjudges in the united states have ruled that president donald trump's travel ban on six mainly muslim countries can go into full effect, pending legal challenges. president trump originally imposed the ban on travellers from chad, iran, libya, somalia, syria and yemen injanuary, prompting mass protests and several legal challenges. the supreme court has now ruled by seven votes to two in favour of the ban. a group of fishermen from the isle of wight found guilty of trying to smuggle more than 50 million of pounds of cocaine into the country have lost a key review of their case. the criminal cases review commission, which investigates miscarriages ofjustice, says unless new evidence is found there is no real possibility of overturning the convictions.
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families and supporters of the group say they are bitterly disappointed. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. more from me at 10.30am. here's some sport now withjess. england need what would be a record run england need what would be a record ru n tests england need what would be a record run tests chase if they are to salvage the match. here is what happened so far. james anderson finished with five wickets as australia were bowled out for 138 in their second innings. that gave england a chance, they knew they needed a big 354 runs to win the second test
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and level the ashes series. they started well — 53 for the first wicket. but, alastair cook was given out leg before wicket after australia reviewed the umpires' decision. one run later mark stoneman was also out. after dinner, james vince was caught in the slips. captain joe root and dawid malan are out now, with england currently on 134—3. we'll know later whether russia will be banned from the winter olympics. they missed rio because of state—sponsored doping. the international olympic committee will meet in lausanne this evening to decide if they've made enough changes to their set—up to compete in south korea. former british heptathlete kelly sotherton is set to be awarded an olympic bronze medal, nine years after the 2008 beijing games. it comes after russian heptathlete tatyana chernova failed to have a doping ban overturned. sotherton originially finished fifth in the event, but now two of the athletes above her have had their results annulled. it's the second olympic bronze medal sotherton has been awarded late, after being bumped up to third in the 2008 4x400m event. in snooker, top seed judd trump has
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been knocked out, beaten by graeme dott. he spent much of the game in his seat as his opponent at the next six to move into the fourth round. neil robertson also went out, losing 6—5 to world number 42 markjoyce. thank you. a group of fishermen from the isle of wight found guilty of trying to smuggle more than 50 million of pounds of cocaine into the country have lost a key review of their case. the ccrc — the official body which investigates miscarriages ofjustice — says unless new evidence is found there is no real possibility of overturning the convictions. their families and supporters say they are bitterly disappointed and have said they will fight on. our reporterjim reed has this exclusive film. picture of a bag recovered and brought to police. in 2010, a quarter of a tonne
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