tv HAR Dtalk BBC News December 18, 2017 12:30am-1:01am GMT
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the high commissionerfor human rights says the country's leaders could face charges of genocide over the persecution of the rohingya ethnic group. more than 650,000 rohingya muslims have fled from myanmar to neighbouring bangladesh since august. the white house has confirmed that the us spy agency the cia helped prevent a terror attack in russia. and this video is trending on bbc.com... the latest star wars film has generated more than $450 million in global ticket sales on its opening weekend. in the us, the lastjedi is second on the all—time box office list, behind the 2015 star wars film, the force awakens. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk.
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i'm zeinab badawi. is the sudanese government coming in from the cold and moving towards becoming a fully integrated member of the international community? the us lifted economic sanctions on sudan in october, ending two decades of its financial isolation. washington says sudan has made progress on human rights, democratic reforms and ending ethnic tensions in the country. but critics argue it has not done enough, there's still no peace in darfur and other conflict areas and human rights violations continue. my my guest is 0mar al—bashir‘s, sudan's foreign minister. has the government really made a fresh start? theme music foreign minister ibrahim ghandour,
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welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. it is a pleasure to be here. how far do you see the lifting of us sanctions as a fresh start for sudan? it is an inclusion into the international economy and finance systems will not put quite sometime sudan has been bad from dealing with banks, transferring money, investors we re banks, transferring money, investors were leaving sudan. and so now sudan is back and we believe this is a good start with a country with a developing economy. at that time the economy shot up to a great growth. the us government still wants you to
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do more. heather knew it, the state department spokesperson said the move recognise sudan's sustained positive action but more progress is needed. there is always more to be asked by anybody but they were referring to the human rights and religious freedoms and we have been discussing this at length and we are abiding without constitution and all international conventions and agreements and regional conventions and agreements we have signed on human rights and agreements and we are ready to listen to friends. you mentioned human rights and that is one very, very big issue. the british ambassador in sudan says he is very worried about human rights about, darfur and the continuing violence in different areas. the ux that you have to do a lot more? we
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arejust coming out that you have to do a lot more? we are just coming out of war that you have to do a lot more? we arejust coming out of war in that you have to do a lot more? we are just coming out of war in the south and we came out from a war in darfur, darfur is peaceful now. we how peace and negotiating with rebel groups. in an area still in turmoil, we are surrounded by the central african republic ‘s, and you will find it boko haram, isis everywhere and, despite of that, people are trying to manage but you still must be worried if you are in that environment and this is what everybody feels that anything is possible at any time. but it is what is going on in your country that is concerning people. you mentioned darfur, the inner project lobby group says there is continuing abuse of civilians in conflict areas. they
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say we have known this government and they will never change. in fact, united nations african hybrid force, 22,000 soldiers, observers from different countries in the world, the report said that darfur is now peaceful and that is why it the council took a decision... it has been reduced by a third. it is a full cause of departure but it is phased and until december, almost 11,000 are supposed to leave and then the rest will leave in the coming year so it is a fully fledged departure and ex— head strategy in accordance with the agreement signed between the government and the african union. the americans say they want to move more movement on that, you yourself have said that. even as late asjune last year, 100,000 civilians were displaced in
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darfur. it 100,000 civilians were displaced in da rfur. it is 100,000 civilians were displaced in darfur. it is volatile and you need to do more and violence flares up very easily. i cannot say it is volatile but it is something that needs to be observed and the government is keen to see that happen. this is what happened last june, this is the last rebel group thatis june, this is the last rebel group that is still trying to say we are here. the leader refused to sit down and talk and refused peace. he dreams of having his government led by himself. but thereat clashes between the rebels and pro—government militia. they need to be reined in. the government could do something on that. integrate them into security forces. you can do a lot. with all due all respect, it is pa rt lot. with all due all respect, it is part of the army. it has brains and military numbers and identifications. —— ranks. they are
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pa rt identifications. —— ranks. they are part and parcel of the sudanese armed forces and their leaders are pa rt armed forces and their leaders are part and parcel is of leaders in sudan. clashes happening between them and the rebels? no, it is a trial of the government to collect alms from different parts of sudan. we have neighbouring countries with civil wars everywhere and smuggling arms is easy and it is part of the agreement to collect alms throughout the country and the government now did that fully in darfur and this is why even crimes are almost cut off by 90%. why even crimes are almost cut off by 9096. when it comes to darfur what is that the americans are saying? the americans must always leave the door open for a pact. you cannot say everything is perfect and you come again and make it reversed. this is why it policy and the policy is
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well—known. this is why the door is open for an amendment and if critics are faithful and trustworthy. you mentioned the americans have said in this discussion about lifting the sanctions and what more sudan has to do, the question of religious freedom and john 0'sullivan, the deputy direct to the secretary of state, paid a visit to sudan and expressed concern about religious persecution... in fact, there was a list of countries supporting terrorism. john sullivan was referring to the annual report of the state department of religious freedom are across the world. he found that every country in the world is being criticised long way or another, including the us, for religious freedoms and sudan is
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dealing with that. we have a special committee on dealing with religious freedoms across the country. sudan is one of the countries that has received an excellent religious coexistence between the different religions. john sullivan pointed to what he described as the destruction of churches and the arrests of priests. we told him that they are illegal, it is a land that belongs to other people and why three churches were destroyed, fall bosque ‘s were destroyed at the same time. —— mosque. this land belonged to some people and the churches were built illegally stop really? like would these sudanese church of christ sake christians do not have a right here any more. you can say whatever you say but many priests are saying otherwise. what about a recent case of more than 20 south
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syd ney recent case of more than 20 south sydney is a christian women arrested ata sydney is a christian women arrested at a gathering in khartoum by the public order police because they we re public order police because they were wearing trousers and skirt and we re were wearing trousers and skirt and were therefore an affront to public decency. i remember very well john sullivan was talking about wearing trousers and when we left our office we left a journalist wearing trousers and she was talking to me andi trousers and she was talking to me and i told you this is an example. these women were arrested. they write cases, accorded nature of the note to oppression of women in initiative said women have been sentenced to flogging because of the affront to public decency. sentenced to flogging because of the affront to public decencylj sentenced to flogging because of the affront to public decency. i read that press release and i dealt with the number but i cannot deny there may be sometimes problems in the indie since the cold by the police
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at this is one of the issues being addressed in parliament right now. so christian women can wear their trousers? it has nothing to do with religion. many muslim women wearing trousers and it is not illegal behaviour. another civic freedom is freedom of the press, of course, and the national intelligence and security services and apparently seized writ runs off for sudanese newspapers, it has been described as a press massacre. we are having a wider discussion over the press. the dissipation ofjournalists across the country and we are trying to have a new version of ourjournalist and newspapers. that will not have punishment of whatever kind and leave everything and thejournal is like in other cities. why were these
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newspapers that sees? this is in accordance with the law. it is part of the powers of the national intelligence. this is why, following many were asking and this is one of the decisions and a recommendation endorsed by the government that we need to revisit 120 laws and among them is the press law. the law as it stands is inadequate? right now it is under discussion. so press freedoms are guaranteed ? is under discussion. so press freedoms are guaranteed? i am sure, in accordance with the constitution. this is one of the elephants in the room, corruption. you know that when it comes to doing business in sudan all the economic indicators showed that businesses just run scared because it was a lack of
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transparency, paul regulatory framework, huge reputational risks by doing business in sudan. by saying we are open for business, you have to do a lot more. there is no country in the world that can deny there is no corruption of some kind but i will use the example of saddam getting investors from abroad. until 2009, sudan was number two in getting foreign investments and number three in the whole of africa in getting foreign investments and many companies are there. various corruption but it is not of the magnitude that people are broadcasting everywhere. it is part... will tell you that right now the government is digressing corruption and a portfolio poll corruption and a portfolio poll corruption is being instituted and it is part of the recommendations. an economic consultant and former
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minister of state in the ministry of finance said the government of sudan is to blame when it comes to the economic ills that have happen. foreign investors will not come to sudan and local investors will not prosper if there is not a local playing field and clear policies to reduce high levels of poverty. these are requisite for success everywhere. but investment is helpful in alleviating poverty everywhere. last year there were demonstrations by students at bash you are a former head of university— protesting against the removal of fuel subsidies and so on and actually they were talking about civil freedoms and there were mass
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arrests as a result of those protests ? we are still not at the level of having peaceful demonstrations across the country. some demonstrate against the government and are arrested. they have a right to arrest. it is right by law and constitution. but sometimes people go and disturb public stability, they burn facilities, public or private, and they are arrested. we are for peaceful demonstrations, we are for peaceful demonstrations, we are for, in fact, whatever people can are for, in fact, whatever people ca n ex press are for, in fact, whatever people can express themselves in the way they like. so only those who brought about how they can carried out violence were arrested, that is not the report we got. many a man in the street. they have a right. what many
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are saying, especially now that sanctions have been lifted, is that, look, we want to make sure that the lifting of economic sanctions is going to benefit all of the people of sudan, that we are not going to see vast profits creamed off by the government and its supporters. that won't happen. can you guarantee full transparency? definitely. definitely. we are one of the few countries in the world that has an auditor—general that does not have a relation to the government. that is in every newspaper. he does not take his report to the president or to the government were to the minister, it is from him to the parliament to
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the television, the radio, the press. you know, sedan has got a lot of mineral wealth. —— sudan. sudan is the biggest producer of gold, 19 tons last year produced, despite losing 90% of its oil production in the south, got independence in 2011, it still produces 88 barrels per day. you have agricultural land. a lot of riches in the country. and i have to say to you, people really wa nt to have to say to you, people really want to know that the riches, the natural resources of the country, will go to the benefit of the population as a whole where there is widespread poverty. definitely. you can see them when you visit. you can compare the road, the facilities, the transformation in education, the
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number of universities, the number of schools, the number of hospitals and health to bed, that, you can see it. -- and health to bed, that, you can see it. —— hospital beds. at the time when we were there, people were used toa when we were there, people were used to a new way of living, then oil went away and people had a shock. if not, the perversity of the sudanese economy, that shock what have killed the country. but in spite of that, sudan overcame the shock and the economy went on the right path. third of children suffer malnutrition in sudan. your country has 37 million. if it has riches, why have you not done something about these poverty rates? you have had 29 years in power as the ruling national congress party. you are a
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senior member and have been a member since the mid— 90s and so on. senior member and have been a member since the mid- 90s and so on. mcadoo has been through a civil war for a long time. —— sudan. then be entered into the darfour conflict. keeping peace in a country with civil wars and conflicts, you need a lot of spending. sudan has been under sanctions for 20 years. that is another problem. in spite of that, the economy is moving, and development is going on. trucks are available, wheat is being imported, and... but it is all very expensive. that problem needs to be addressed to put you have given a guarantee that the issue of corruption at high levels is not something the government will tolerate. levels is not something the government will toleratelj levels is not something the
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government will tolerate. i can hold you to that? yes. the message you are giving, foreign minister, is sudan is turning a corner, using the lifting of us sanctions to be readmitted fully into the international community. i have to ask, why didn't president bashid, on ask, why didn't president bashid, on a visit in november to moscow, you are with him, he held talks with president vladimir putin, and what he said was he described us aggressive acts and asks for russia's protection against these acts, saying we believe the problems we have faced have been caused by us interference. he was referring to areas like syria, iraq, afghanistan, and others. no one can deny the role of the us in those countries. by protection from the us, the president was referring to
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particulate incidence. —— but. —— particular incidents. they tried to pass through the un security council a resolution preventing sudan from exporting gold. at that time they called it "bloody gold." russia and china and egypt stood against it and said it was not possible to go through and get the resolution. he was thanking president putin for the support. just that specific act? there was more to the conversation, saying there may be a military base, russia could build one on the red sea coast in sudan. many said it was a snub to washington and cosying up to russia at a good time. we are
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looking forward for excellent relations with russia. why do we wa nt to relations with russia. why do we want to have bad relations with the us? we have had good relations with the us to get the sanctions lifted. this is a new chapter. you have still not the fact that sudan is on the list, the us list, of states that sponsor terrorism. many have said america would not remove saddam —— sudan unless they stopped this. the director of the cia last year declared publicly in international
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media that cia last year declared is one of the most countries supporting the us in counterterrorism and we do not support terrorism. when will you be removed from the list? we have a plan that will continue all year because it requires the decision of the president, the decision of congress, and then back to the president. it is a process. that is why we are discussing our relation with the us. at that time it was authorised. state secretaryjohn kerry... the previous administration. yes. they said the time is not enough. so it will happen ina time is not enough. so it will happen in a year or so? yes. and the president, bashid, he has arrest wa rra nts president, bashid, he has arrest warrants from the international criminal court related to allegations of human rights abuses to do with darfour. he has been in
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power since 1989. is it time to call ita power since 1989. is it time to call it a day? this is a decision of the people. the people of the west have asked us to follow them in democracy and everything. the people want him. sudan, as you know, had two popular revolutions in 64 and 65. then there was the arab spring... you will stand again in 2020? it depends on the president and the people. he said he will not stand. the president and the people. he said he will not standlj the president and the people. he said he will not stand. i am not sure what will happen. we are 2.5 yea rs sure what will happen. we are 2.5 years away. some people want him to stand... what would you like? it is difficult to say a big but he has been leading sudan excellently. he saved sudan from many different countries that have targeted it is a proxy of the us. foreign minister, thank you very much indeed. no problem. thank you. thank you.
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it was a weekend of two halves. with saturday's sunshine replaced a sunday's cloud and drizzle. here is a picture from one of the weather watchers. monday will be a bright start to the week ahead, which is looking mainly dry, rather cloudy, turning milder, especially towards the west. dense fog patches to watch out for, especially during tuesday. monday is dominated by this big ridge of high pressure keeping things
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generally dry and settled. quite a chilly start to the day with frost around and the odd mist and fog patch to contend with first thing. monday morning, eight o'clock, heading to work in school, monday morning, eight o'clock, heading to work and school, temperatures around 4—5 degrees in wales. the south—west of england, a dry start to be more cold further east in england. could be sub—zero in the countryside. much of northern england and northern ireland and scotland looking dry to start off the day. could be a little bit of mistiness around. it should clear through the day. plenty of dry weather on the cards with light winds too. turning more mild, especially from the west. temperatures between seven to nine degrees. slightly cooler to the east. typically around 4—6 from newcastle to norwich. and then, monday night,
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that is when we see visibility go downhill. notjust mist, dense fog, forming group early tuesday. notjust mist, dense fog, forming through early tuesday. freezing fog in the south—east which will be slow to clear. it could be quite problematic during tuesday morning. inh fact, you could see disruption to air travel, road travel, across central and southern england with all that fog. it will be quite slow to clear on tuesday. furhther west, low cloud and drizzle likely, gradually pushing east as we go through the day. so, either way, a foggy day. 5—6 towards the south—east. 10—12 in the north—west. and then as we move through the middle of the week, this frontal system slips south and east across the uk. so, wednesday, a north—south split. drizzly and grey. 9- 12. rain in southern parts of england and wales on thursday. brighter with sunshine and a few
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showers further north, 7—11 degrees. goodbye. welcome to newsday. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: the un warns myanmar‘s leaders they could face genocide charges over the persecution of rohingya muslims. hoping to lead the anc and chart a new course for south africa: the party's delegates are voting now. i'm babita sharma in london. also in the programme: chile's former president, conservative billionaire sebastian pinera, sweeps back into power. and circling the globe solo in just six weeks. french sailor francois gabart smashes the world record. liza fromer studios in singapore
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