her close ally damian green, has been sacked for making misleading statements about pornography found on his parliamentary computer. theresa may said it was with deep regret that she had asked him to resign. he has denied wrongdoing. donald trump's overhaul of the us tax system, the biggest in three decades, has been formally approved by both houses of congress. he's been celebrating his first big legislative win. he says it will boost economic growth and create jobs. democrats argue it will inflate the deficit and mainly benefit rich republican donors. people in catalonia vote later in a key election that could resolve spain's political crisis. pro—independence parties are up against those who want to remain part of a unified spain. the country was plunged into constitutional turmoil in october when catalonia's parliament illegally declared independence. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen

sackur. the fierce argument about the roots of islamistjihadist of islands can sometimes be a matter of life and death. —— jihadist violence. i guessed today knows that all too well. zineb el rhazoui is a french moroccan journalist who was working for the satirical magazine charlie hebdo when 12 people were murdered in the magazine's paris office in 2015. zineb happened to be on holiday. now she lives under police protection. she has since written a book on what she calls islamic fascism. to what extent does she feel she is fighting a war?

zineb el rhazoui, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. there are words which seem to me to define your life. they are words like fight, struggle, resistance. how long do you feel that these words have been at the centre of your life? you know, as a muslim born woman, i realised very early in my life that i had to struggle against injustice and inequality, because i grew up in morocco, and in morocco, when you start to understand things, you realise very fast that you don't have the same rights as men. even men don't have many rights in a country ruled, at the time, by a

totalitarian king, and also by religious law. so as a woman, i only had to choices. either accepts and disappear as a had to choices. either accepts and disappearasa human had to choices. either accepts and disappear as a human being, had to choices. either accepts and disappearas a human being, and had to choices. either accepts and disappear as a human being, and feel destroyed. —— accept. feel that i am no longer living. 0r struggle and refuse to be half a citizen. but thatis refuse to be half a citizen. but that is not necessarily a choice that is not necessarily a choice that a lot of girls, young women, females, feel to be their reality in a country like morocco today. i mean, a lot of women probably wouldn't frame their lives as a choice between disappearing and struggle and resistance. so why were you different from so many of your peers? back home in morocco? maybe these women did not have the tools, maybe they did not have the courage. i don't know why i was different.

for me, it is a question of dignity. i have never considered myself as inferior to men. ijust wanted to be able to say what i think, to have a normal life, to enjoy rights and freedoms. that is what it is. and for that simple thing, you need, u nfortu nately, to for that simple thing, you need, unfortunately, to struggle and to make war. make war? you really feel that? yeah, of course. in a way, it is easy to define your life i'd is transformational moment that came on january seven, 2015, wendy magazine you worked for was attacked by two jihadist sue murdered a dozen people. —— when two. maybe it is wrong to call that transformational. maybe you felt you were at war before that happened. of course. actually, i call that... before that happened. of course. actually, icall that... i before that happened. of course. actually, i call that... i had the first fatwa against me in 2009 in morocco, because a group of

activists, secular activists in morocco, they decided to organise a public technique during ramadan. because in the civil code, the penal code, it is punishable byjail if you publicly eat during ramadan. we consider these laws archaic, they violate human rights and freedoms. so we just violate human rights and freedoms. so wejust decided violate human rights and freedoms. so we just decided to protest with sandwiches. and i deserved day fatwa for that. —— deserved a fatwa. sandwiches. and i deserved day fatwa for that. -- deserved a fatwa. there is something symbolic about going out with sandwiches to eat in a public space in morocco. surely you knew that would offend so many of your fellow citizens in, knew that would offend so many of yourfellow citizens in, i knew that would offend so many of your fellow citizens in, i assume it was in casablanca ? your fellow citizens in, i assume it was in casablanca? why did you feel it was ok, and indeed necessary, to offend so many other people?m it was ok, and indeed necessary, to offend so many other people? if they are offended, actually it is their problem. are they offended when they

see somebody when they are fasting, on television, eating a sandwich? why are they offended if i eat? they are fasting and they are going to paradise, i'm not, let me at my sandwich and drink my copy map. i wa nt to sandwich and drink my copy map. i want to be free to eat, i want to be free to exist as a moroccan citizen who does not necessarily respect and follow this islamic rule. so if they are offended, that is their problem. i believe that sometimes provocation is necessary to impose a debate, to make people, either they want to have a debate about things that are to bill in society. we will get dd debate and the ideology and the taboos later. —— get to the debate. i want to stick with the impact on your life and your emotional life in particular. you have a young woman who is used to being in trouble. you are familiar with the notion of fa twa . are familiar with the notion of

fatwa. you have been arrested and detained by the moroccan authorities. you decide to leave morocco after the uprisings of 2011 and the political turmoil. you end up and the political turmoil. you end up in france, you get a job with charlie hebdo, the most famous satirical, provocative magazine in the country. were you therefore, perhaps, not as shocked and surprised as so many of us were by the attack on the magazine's offices? was it something you were half expecting? yeah, we were half expecting that. that we never imagined it would be as violent as that. actually, charb had a fatwa, a contract on his head. we used to joke about that. because the contract was something about $200,000, which is not enough to save the newspaper from $200,000, which is not enough to save the newspaperfrom bankruptcy, otherwise we were telling him we would sell him to them. charb was,

as they say in french, and arabophile. he loved the arabic culture, the arabic language. he was a lwa ys culture, the arabic language. he was always saying allah akbar, and we said, stopped joking about that, one day they will come and kill you, and we won't be able to tell if it is real or not. for those who do not know the story, you survived because you were on holiday onjanuary seventh, 2015. you were on holiday in morocco. your colleagues and your friends, especially charb, who was your mental and your collaborator, he was one of those who was gunned down and killed. —— mentor. he was one of those who was gunned down and killed. —— mentorlj he was one of those who was gunned down and killed. -- mentor. iwas actually supposed to be that day. i was working. i was in morocco, but i would wake up that day and send my suggestions for the articles. it was about islamic state, by the way. i sent an email to charb saying, that is what i wanted to do that week. i was waiting for the answer. and i

got a phone call telling me, where are you? are you at charlie hebdo? it is there has been a shooting. —— because there has been. that is how i learned they were killed.|j because there has been. that is how i learned they were killed. i need to ask you about the feelings you have had since then, how you have processed it. it is a long time now, it is years, but you were one of the people, we know that the jihadist wa nted people, we know that the jihadist wanted to kill you. you were on the list, along with charb and others. you enter charb had collaborated on a book they particularly disliked. yet some people who died were not writing about islam at all. some we re writing about islam at all. some were not even at —— and not even editorial staff. do you feel guilty that you are producing work that was because of these jihadist violent people to go to that office, and yet others died, who had nothing to do with the cause, and you survived? of course. when such a violent event

happens, you are post— trauma situation. —— you are in a post— trauma situation. and just as if you survive a plane crash, you feel guilty, because you survived and all those people died. ifelt guilty, because you survived and all those people died. i felt guilty during the months and months... did you also have a sense of responsibility? no. because i understood after that that the only guilty people for that crime worthy terrorists. —— were the. i think it was a big mistake. we usually do now look for the reasons of the crime in the victims. many people now, every time you have a terrorist attacks, many people try to say, it is because of the foreign policy of the country, it is because of racism, it is kieran collins of non— integration, et cetera. but actually, the guilty people are not

the victims. the only guilty i find is the ideology of the killers. so the book are referred to, the life of muhammad, which she worked on with charb, looking on that now, you would change nothing? you would publish it again today, knowing what you know now like you did in 2013? you know, when we published that look at that time, we knew that we we re look at that time, we knew that we were threatened. and actually, that was published after the molotov cocktail attack on charlie hebdo in november 2011. so we knew that there was a taboo. but our duty as journalists, as satiricaljournalist than those cartoonists, i am not a cartoonist, at charb was, is to break taboos in society. this is exactly ourjob. for us, as a french satirical newspaper, the right to so—called blasphemy, the right to

criticise religions and to not necessarily criticise them but discuss and debate about them, that is what drives a limit between civilisation and barbarism. interesting use that word to duty, in your answer. it seems to me that reading what you have said and written about your feelings after the charlie had a tax, you feel a strong sense of duty. —— charlie hebdo attacks. a sense of duty to not only keep up the struggle but to intensify the struggle. in your writings, and your words, taking on islam. it seems that that obligation lives on in you now, more than before? of course. as you said in your presentation, it is a question of life or death. it is not something... it is not something superficial, a superficial question in our society. islamic state arisen has been killing people around the world, in the west, but also in africa and in muslim countries.

track islamic terrorism. so we need to fight that ideology on an ideological level. but there are also obligations you have to live a life that is tolerable, notjust for you, but for those you love. and when you say that isis continues to issue threats against you, which essentially revolve around separating your head from your body, that impacts your child, you have a child, it impacts your husband, it impacts all of your family. and it would be entirely legitimate for you to ta ke would be entirely legitimate for you to take a step that can say, i have to take a step that can say, i have to live a life, notjust be a warrior in a struggle. —— take a step back and say. my friends, and those who are struggling with me, we re those who are struggling with me, were killed. i cannotjust say that iam were killed. i cannotjust say that i am lucky to live, and keep silent. when we keep silent, actually, we

put in danger those who talk. so if all of us talk, if all the media in the world published the cartoons in 2006 in solidarity with charlie had, what would they have done? could they kill all of us? without stating they kill all of us? without stating the obvious, this isn'tjust about you. you have had a child since. you area you. you have had a child since. you are a mother now. you are also a daughter. you have parents. let me tell you something. 0n the 14th of july, when this terrorist attack happened in nice, and there were a lot of abies who were watching fireworks, who were killed, actually, those babies, those families, they were not threatened. —— a lot of babies. they were not targeted. iam. —— a lot of babies. they were not targeted. i am. i —— a lot of babies. they were not targeted. iam. i have security, they do not. they were killed and i am still alive. imak.

they do not. they were killed and i am stillalive. imak. i they do not. they were killed and i am still alive. imak. i am personally targeted. but it is our civilisation that is targeted, that is what i believe. it is our style of living that is targeted. do your family all support the stand you continue to take? some of them, of course, are still in morocco. actually, yes, they support me. most of them support me and, you know, there is an intelligent way to deal with these things. i have a lot of friends who are believers, who worship god who would not necessarily agree with there but we respect each other on a human level and we are still friends and see each other and find pleasure in being with each other. some people who come to this argument about islam and violence from a somewhat similar place to you, do believe you

have gone too far. a former charlie hebdojournalist have gone too far. a former charlie hebdo journalist says you went too far in developing this is homophobic new ra ces far in developing this is homophobic new races that gradually took over and ended up endorsing attacks on members of a minority religion with no influence in the corridors of power. his message, basically, you went too far. when he published this, it was before the terrorist attacks, and he was giving examples of what he considered as proof that charlie hebdo is so called is homophobic. and i do not agree with this term and will talk about it later. —— islam phobic. maybe it would be strange if you accuse in an article of being racist and if you

said the author is was labour... surely you are not arguing that because you are muslim you are necessarily immune from the accusation that some of what you write is islamaphobic did not accept the word islamaphobic. for me, if you are muslim born, kristian bond, jewish born, you have the right to criticise ideas and religions are ideas. why am i not allowed to criticise that? there is a big difference between criticising ideas and criticising people. as a feminist, that instance, i am against the veil, the me it is a sexist costume but it does not mean i hate individually every veiled

woman and deny her that the rights asa human woman and deny her that the rights as a human being. there is a huge difference between criticising ideas and people. you make it sound so simple but it is complicated to an peak the two parts of that. let me quote you words that seem relevant, timothy winter, who changed his name because he converted to its name. he works at cambridge university, a director of religious studies and he says scorning the profit in the way he sees it yours and some other writings, goes beyond free speech and it is an act of violence and he co m pa res and it is an act of violence and he compares it to the days of nazi terror when cartoons supplied a narrative with jewish terror when cartoons supplied a narrative withjewish cartoons. are you not guilty with that kind of incitement particularly with the bookie europe published which

essentially its title is clear is to destroy islamic fascism ? essentially its title is clear is to destroy islamic fascism? for me cartooning the profit is no different to cartooning the pope, chief estates, . .. different to cartooning the pope, chief estates,... it is notjust cartoons. islam is not a religion of peace and love but an ideology that teachers hate all the other and blesses the inferiority of women and non— muslims dasha you are condemning as fascists an entire religion. do you know any religion thatis religion. do you know any religion that is just peace and love? christianity, . .. this is that is just peace and love? christianity,... this is not an argument against religion but you are saying it is an argument against islam... of course. it is applied as

a fascist ideology by the terrorists. this ideology is committing crimes. it is killing and, no matter who they killed, the most important is killing the maximum number of people. yet can compare it to fascism because there area compare it to fascism because there are a lot of characteristics close to what you find in all other fascism is. you are aiding and abetting those who, right now, on the streets of european cities are taking muslims simply because they are muslims dasha you are giving them intellectualjustification and we know from the figures we know the number of attacks on muslims is rising exponentially. are we talking about islamic civilisation? about islam with a capital i wish you find

the territories and includes music, costu mes the territories and includes music, costumes etc, or are we talking about what is written in the islamic texts. the fact of praying five times a day et cetera. this religion isa times a day et cetera. this religion is a way of worshipping, written in a bed when country, are we really keen out to apply it as something ruling the society in 2017? of course is love is not accept equality between men and women. i am asking for a society where we apply human rights rules. if any religion isa human rights rules. if any religion is a spirituality and it stays at home, if religion helps someone to become someone better, religion is welcomed in that case but no religion, neither islam,

christianity, to rule the society, a democracy. who are you trying to persuade of your message with the way you present your ideas? persuade of your message with the way you present your idea57m persuade of your message with the way you present your ideas? it seems to me it is very unlikely you will persuade moderate muslims of your case when you begin by saying that you associate islam with fascism. people who live in muslims country know that our... in europe, the far—right wing is islamist. in europe the far—right do not share the same projects as islamists but they have the same dialect ticket tools. but you are just talking about islamic terror in the same way that donald trump does. is that a particular problem with some fundamentalist islamist factions, at

one far end of the muslim religion, 01’ one far end of the muslim religion, or isn't a problem with the religion itself? fahmy islamists are those who see islam as a political project. —— for me. if the muslim ‘s are community, i belong to that community. fahmy, muslims are not a community. fahmy, muslims are not a community but individuals, citizens, they have the right to define themselves by other things than by religion. why do people consider that muslims are condemned to be ruled by their religion. from being a young woman in morocco, you have a lwa ys a young woman in morocco, you have always felt this absolute need to resist and struggle and the fight a war. that fighting has ended up with you living in a metaphorical cage with security guards, secret locations, having to move time and

again to make sure nobody knows your routine. is it worth it? ithink again to make sure nobody knows your routine. is it worth it? i think the muslim people, those born in an muslim people, those born in an muslim countries who do not have the right to drink beer, to have a love story, to produce a movie, with kissing scenes, who do not have the simple rights that people enjoy here in the west, those people actually live injailand in the west, those people actually live in jail and they in the west, those people actually live injail and they do not in the west, those people actually live in jail and they do not have a choice but struggling against this ideology and i do not understand this leftist europe, born with all these rights, he thinks we have this kind of complacency towards what they think art muslins and who think we are people condemned to be ruled by our traditions. in the muslim world you have people who deserve the same universal rights as you and

this is my struggle. if i live in a moving jail, i consider that inside my head a much more free than those who threaten me. zineb el rhazoui, thank you for being on hardtalk. you're welcome. thank you very much indeed. hi there. the cold weather that we had during the first half of december is a long way behind us, and, really, for the run—up to christmas, including christmas day, the weather looks pretty mild. at the moment we've got a weather front wiggling its way across central areas of the uk. extensive cloud being wafted across the uk on westerly winds — those winds are fairly light. and we've got some mist and fog

patches around the coast and the hills across england and wales. some patches of light rain and drizzle to start the day as well. a risk of that for northern ireland, for england and wales. slightly drier weather for scotland although the far north again could see a bit of rain. so one way or another, as we start off thursday morning, it's going to be a murky start to the day with fog around the coast of wales and south—west england. up over the hills of the downs and chiltons, a few patches of light rain or drizzle tending ease away quite quickly during thursday morning. some damp weather as well, there or thereabouts in northern ireland. but further north in scotland, for many areas, it's a dry and bright start to the day. high cloud in the sky and there should be some hazey sunshine coming through that across many areas. through the rest of thursday, this wiggling weather front is going to push its way a little bit further northwards and eastwards. it's just going to stay cloudy for most of us. the cloud perhaps thinning a little bit through the afternoon, to allow brighter spells in the east. but always, the thicker cloud across wales, north—west england, northern ireland, threatening some spots of rain.

the brightest weather across scotland but this is where we've got the slightly cooler air. temperatures 6 or 7 degrees in the north. otherwise, for most of us, it's a day of double—figure temperatures. and those mild conditions continue through thursday night and on into the first part of friday morning. the cloud though is going to thicken up then through thursday night. with a bit of rain working in again across wales and southern counties of england, on into the midlands for a time, too. cooler across the far north—east of scotland. then for friday, again, it's a rather disappointingly cloudy kind of weather picture. weather becomes drier and brighter for most of us through the afternoon. with a bit more in the way of wind blowing across the mountains of scotland, it is probably the eastern side of scotland that will have the best of any limited breaks in the cloud. for many of us it's a mild one, though. temperatures, what, 10, 11, 12 degrees celsius across western areas. that mild theme set to continue as we head into the weekend and indeed for christmas day, with the winds generally coming in from the west or the south—west. to start off the weekend, again, it's a lot of cloud around for most of us.

thick enough to give us a few spots of light rain across western coasts and hills. perhaps something a little bit more wet across the north—west of scotland. slightly stronger winds, so again a better chance of seeing some cloud breaks for eastern scotland, running into eastern england and then, right up to christmas day itself, it stays mild, but often cloudy perhaps a little bit brighter for most of us for christmas day itself. this is the briefing. i'm victoria fritz. our top story: catalans head to the polls in a regional election. will it resolve spain's worst political crisis in decades? britain's prime minister sacks one of her closest allies after an inquiry found he'd made misleading statements about pornography found on a computer in his office. waiting for the big day. we'll tell you about the baby born from an embryo frozen for nearly 25 years. and coming up in the business briefing, inside silicon 0asis. how the emirates are cultivating

high—technology to support a post—oil economy. and we'll be live with our correspondent in barcelona to talk about the effect of the catalonia crisis on one of europe's biggest