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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  February 23, 2018 11:15pm-11:45pm GMT

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they've been working hard at the un security council today, but getting nothing done. meanwhile, with no ceasefire agreed, the syrian government has been busy in its familiar way — bombing eastern ghouta. you might have hoped that somehow diplomacy or human decency would lead to a pause in the brutality. but hope is all too scarce. i'm witnessing these things before my eyes. when the bomb landed near us, the children panicked and were crying out loud. it's part of the united kingdom, except it opts out of the socially liberal bits. what explains northern ireland's social conservatism? we know the society that we want to be part of. we know there is overwhelming public support for some of these issues, so it's really disappointing that some of our leaders cannot and fewer people are using public transport in the capital. a blip, or an early sign we've finally reached peak london? hello.
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it's been one of those days that demonstrates the limits of diplomacy. the security council was meant to vote on a motion for a ceasefire at four o'clock this afternoon, our time. then it was postponed to 7.30. and in the last few minutes the vote has been rescheduled again — this time delayed until tomorrow. you probably don't need me to tell you that it is the russian veto — or the threat of it — that has blocked the motion. however, the russians have said they'll sign up to a ceasefire as long as it is guaranteed to be observed by rebels as well as the syrian government. talks will no doubt continue overnight before the vote — which we're now told will happen at 5pm our time tomorrow. well, we'll hear from an air—raid shelter in douma in eastern ghouta shortly, but what hope is there for a ceasefire? and an effective one at that.
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mike thompson reports. while politicians talk, the incessant bombardment of rebel held eastern ghouta by syrian and russian forces goes on and on. is now, if you can hear, the jets are bombing. with hundreds dead over the last few days, and many more injured, medics there are struggling to cope, and it's a battle that this doctor says they are losing. when you get injury to the hospital, you expect to deal with 70, 80 injuries at the same time. this, you cannot imagine any hospital can deal with these numerous cases. ultimately, events look likely to go only one way for the people
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of bombarded and besieged eastern ghouta — evacuation. this was the fate of this rebel held area. and then east aleppo several months later and finally homs in 2017. people were pounded and starved into submission before being taken to rebel held idlib province. death and destruction has not been all one way. mortars have been fired into downtown damascus by rebel groups in eastern ghouta, one of which had formal ties with al-qaeda. 0ne former british ambassador to syria who is a director of a group with links to president assad's family believes the pictures we are seeing do not reflect the full story. don't you think it remarkable in the harrowing videos
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we are being regaled with, the war pornography we are wallowing in, is it remarkable you never see the thousands, probably 7—8000 jihadi warriors who are there, and why not? because all the images we see come from the jihadis and auxiliaries in eastern ghouta, who are adept at stirring western sympathy, hoping we are going to come in over the horizon to save them. a spokesman for the white helmets rescue teams in eastern ghouta said there is a good reason for that. you do not see them because they are targeting directly civilian neighbourhoods. fighters are at the front lines. they are at the front lines. there is no one armed between civilians. the horrors happening in eastern ghouta mirror the fate of east aleppo. it all brings back terrible
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memories to this woman, who i had interviewed many times, before she narrowly escaped from the city with her life. we can present the same feeling we have felt in the past. i can hear the sound and crying of the kids. i can even smell the dust of bombing. so what chance a ceasefire? some are optimistic. a ceasefire, every time when the start, he begins bombing and shelling. if any ceasefire deal here is to last, it will require trust on all sides.
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right now, there is precious little of that. mike thompson. nowhere are the effects of those delays at the united nations being felt tonight as firmly as in eastern ghouta itself. before we came on air, i spoke to mahmoud bwedany. he's a 20—year—old student activist who has spent much of the last week in an underground shelter with his family. the regime claims the images we are seeing look worse in eastern goutha than it actually is. i asked mahmoud about his experience. well, how can we make it worse? it's the worst situation there is. and i am witnessing these things before my eyes. when the bomb landed, near us, the children panicked and were crying out loud. they were not holding any guns. the front line aren't being bombed as heavy as the centres of the city.
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you perhaps have heard that the united nations is struggling to get a ceasefire motion agreed. the russians are obviously saying they will veto the motion, the swedish—kuwaiti motion, for 30 days of ceasefire. it must be frustrating for you. what is devastating, the international community is not doing any actions to prevent the tragedies from happening in this area. 400 people were killed in the last five days. 32 casualties just today. and a lot of wounded. the medical staff is overwhelmed with patients and injured people from the bombardment. they are working most of the day, i think more than ten hours.
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it is horrible. the international community... go on. they are still delaying the meeting and we probably know the russians will veto this motion. what is your hope? a un resolution for a 30—day ceasefire would be enormously helpful. well, that is not something i know for sure what to say about. but i think that is the international community, the world leaders‘ job, to fight war crimes to prevent more tragedies from happening. so i hope the ceasefire goes through. this is a difficult question. is there any way, if you could
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surrender and just get out, would you contemplate, at some point, the white flag might have to go up? well, that is just devastating. forced displacement is not the solution to what we are living in. the problem is that the regime and russia and the forces that are in the alliance, they are attacking ghouta and other places in syria. that is the problem. the solution is not to get everyone out of their homes and move them out of their lands, and into god knows where. the solution is to push assad and the regime, to, i'm sorry, the regime and russia to stop this assault and to let this
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country get back on its feet with a legitimate country, legitimate government that respects human rights and believes in equality. does everybody in eastern ghouta believe that? do you think there are people who want to escape and just want to stop the war at any price, or do you think everybody there holds firm to the description you havejust given me of your views? well, not everyone. of course there are people who are tired and have suffered so much in this war. so, yes, some people might think of that as a solution. but, let's face it, nobody can guarantee what will happen if they decided to move us out of this area. they might take everyone to the slaughterhouses and just execute.
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everyone against this regime. and who fought in this revolution. if that is going to be our choice, then the entire world has not done anything. mahmoud, it is very good of you to talk to us and describe the plight there, which obviously everybody here thinks is quite horrific. we wish you all the best, very much. thank you. northern ireland was condemned today by a un committee. the committee on the elimination of discrimination against women attacked the fact that northern ireland criminalises abortion, restricting it even in cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality. the committee said the restrictions caused great harm and suffering. this is pretty routine criticism, but the strange thing about it is that it's aimed at a piece of the uk, and yet most people in the uk would probably agree with it.
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northern ireland has allowed itself to become an exceptional piece of the uk, in clinging to some socially conservative norms. it is the one nation not to have same—sex marriage for example. and yet it's a complicated picture there because polls in northern ireland show support for liberalisation of the abortion law and support for same—sex marriage. matthew thompson has been looking at the strength of social conservatism there. the history of ireland is traced upon the cross. in this land of saints and scholars, religion held immense power over minds, lives, and indeed, deaths. divided as they were, the island's squabbling churches were united by their stance on public morals. you will legislate perversion and immorality. but in recent years, most notably in the republic, such attitudes have shifted. scandals have shaken public faith in the catholic church — secularism is on the march.
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the republic's gay marriage referendum in 2015 left northern ireland nearly alone in western europe as one of the few places where same—sex marriage was still forbidden by law. take the issue of abortion, however, and ireland's isolation is even starker. strict laws north and south of the border mean the island ranks alongside andorra, malta and san marino as the most restrictive places in europe. a forthcoming referendum in the republic could compound northern ireland's isolation. with its religious quarrels and fractious political landscape, northern ireland can seem, to large swathes of british opinion, a place frozen in time. and nowhere is the country's social conservativism more in evidence than here in ballymena, the buckle of northern ireland's bible belt. if you were voting, would you think it was important that the politicians were representing religious values? yes, certainly, certainly.
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that's why i do support dup, because they do have a lot of religious values on same—sex marriage and stuff, where, you know... where is that all coming from? i have nothing against gay people in any way, but i don't think it's right for them to be married, definitely not, not the way i was brought up. the dup is not the only party to hold these views. the ulster unionist party, for one, is split on such issues. but the dup's unique brand of fundamentalism find fertile groudn here. the fact is that on a scale of 0— ten when we are asked how much has your faith ten when we are asked how much has yourfaith in ten when we are asked how much has your faith in church can ten when we are asked how much has yourfaith in church can do ten when we are asked how much has your faith in church can do shoot ten when we are asked how much has yourfaith in church can do shoot —— positioned on the outlook of the dup, is typical to imagine any other party across the united kingdom having such an outlook, wanting
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faith in church to condition the outlook of their party. the power to legislate on social issues rests with northern ireland's devolved government. when it actually sits. the assembly here at stormont is declining to endorse more liberal legislation on gay marriage and abortion. in 2015 a vote to legalise 93v abortion. in 2015 a vote to legalise gay marriage was passed by a majority of one but the dup were able to use a controversial veto power to block the legislation. this move provoked outrage. the 2017 northern ireland general election survey indicated that 54% of people supported same—sex marriage full up only 23% opposed it. other polls have put support higher still. but only 50% of unionists were in favour, against 66% of national. and of dup supporters, almost exactly as many oppose
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of dup supporters, almost exactly as many oppose as support same—sex marriage. people use in northern island of same—sex marriage are conditioned more by age than necessarily religion these days. and with a new generation coming through, chances are that at some point same—sex marriage will be allowed in northern ireland. as symbols of that new generation go, it's hard to look past the sunflower bar in central belfast. at the height of the troubles, it was the scene of a loyalist terror attack that left three people dead. now it's a trendy bar that attract a younger, more progressive crowd. these issues are incredibly important to students... these young people voice frustration with a political system
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that they feel isn't working for them. people, for a variety of reasons, continue to vote on a sort of community affiliation basis rather than particular social issues, so it isn't effective to necessarily say to people that they should vote for this particular party because they will bring abortion reform or marriage equality. it simply doesn't work that way in northern ireland yet. we know there is a kind of society that we want to be a part of, and we know that there is overwhelming public support for some of these issues, so it's really disappointing that some of our leaders can't actually enact that change. 0livia, you're the president of the national union of students in ireland, and you've met actually with a lot of the parties, i think as recently as last week with the dup, to talk about some of these issues. how did you come away from that? i don't think anything has come out of these talks that wasn't really to be expected, personally. i think, if anything, one of the things that's become crystal—clear is, for any progress to be made in any sort of area in legislation in northern ireland, the petition of concern is most definitely in need of some desperate reform, and it is unclear as to whether or not any
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of the parties have a clear path forward for how that should be done. sinn fein have made much in recent years of what they call the equality agenda, but their position on abortion has only recently softened, and they still don't officially support any unrestricted access. the nationalist sdlp, sister party of labour, remains staunchly pro—life. in october, the supreme court heard an appeal from the northern ireland human rights commission against the country's abortion laws. that judgment is expected within the next month. the most recent northern ireland life and times survey suggests that abortion is is another area in which politicians are out of step with public opinion. ask people whether abortion should be given in the case of serious fatal abnormality, or in the case of rape or incest, and significant majorities are in favour. but ask if a woman should be able to have an abortion on demand and the balance tips significantly. fully 60% of people are opposed in this instance. 0verall, catholics are more likely than protestants to oppose abortion. for sinn fein, i think that what we see is a changing relationship of the citizens of ireland with the catholic church, so over the past 20 years, you see that, but sinn fein also
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having their position on the constitutional question, which is overwhelmingly supported. so, they can have this liberal agenda that's there. for the sdlp, they are more conservative traditionally, but i do think that they are going to change as attitudes change on the island of ireland, where they will not want to be caught on the wrong side of social change. so, what hope for change for those who seek it? absent reform, delivering same—sex marriage, will be an uphill struggle for a restored assembly at stormont, abortion even more so. though, of course, the supreme court could force the issue. should stormont remain empty, direct rule ministers could legislate from london, but that will hardly be a priority for a government dealing with brexit and in bed with the dup. short—term then, in spite of the will of a majority of its people, it seems likely that ulster‘s peculiar political system will continue to say no. for three decades, london has been
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enjoying a long boom. its economy, its population and its global status have all been growing to the point that it has sometimes felt increasingly disconnected from the rest of the country. it's almost taken for granted that there's that kind of imbalance. so listen carefully. something strange is currently happening in the capital. it happened quite suddenly and unexpectedly. it could be nothing significant. but it could possibly be historic. it's public transport that offers the most important sign something's up. actually, i've expressed that badly. it's that passenger numbers are down. the decline sounds small — bus journeys down 5% over the last two years, tube journeys down 0.3%. but small falls cause a big headache for transport bosses. infrastructure spending in london has been based
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on ever—growing passenger numbers. it was meant to be 1.41; billion tube journeys next year. now, it's expected to be 1.34 billion. the gap leaves hundreds of millions in lower revenues. it's not just london. a couple of years ago, i heard it from new york, that the subway ridership had levelled off and was beginning to decline, bus ridership, in fact, had started to fall before that. and since then, we've seen this phenomenon on extended to london, probably to toronto, certainly levelling off on the paris metro. and it appears as if something more broadly is occurring to big city transport and the ridership on it. heads are being scratched in search of a definitive explanation. is it the uber effect, for example? people taking taxis rather than trains and buses? is it cycling?
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certainly, it can no longer be dismissed as an irrelevance in the big transport picture. is it terror keeping people away from the crowds? or is it that people shop from home these days and entertain themselves there too? i don't think this is — there's likely to be a single answer. it's more likely to be a complex one involving the way we live in and use big cities. it could just be something more than transport. the end of a three decade surge in the role of megacities. you see, it's notjust transport feeding it. —— feeling it. in london, museum visits are down as well, for example. the british museum, down 8% in 2017. not untypical of the sector.
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