tv HAR Dtalk BBC News March 2, 2018 12:30am-1:01am GMT
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president trump says he will impose steep import tariffs on steel and aluminium, ina steep import tariffs on steel and aluminium, in a move likely to provoke a backlash from canada. canada, which is the biggest exporter of steel to the us, it says it is unacceptable, others —— other countries say it is —— it will start a wage war. it has been more than a week since the teenagers were taken by boca her on militants. the story is turning on bbc .com, that deep freeze continues across europe, continuing chaos. the siberian weather system has brought the cold est weather system has brought the coldest temperatures of the continent in years, earning at several nicknames, including the beast from the east. that is all from me, stay with us on bbc news. just after half past midnight here on bbc news, it is time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. professional politics is a hothouse world where the inhabitants can seem
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far removed from the rough edges of modern life. so maybe it's no surprise that there is a disconnect between our governors and the governed. my guest today is a rarity, a british mp who was a front—line soldier. johnny mercer served three tours in afghanistan. he entered politics to make a difference on issues he cared about, defence, veteran's welfare, and mental health. but in a britain preoccupied with brexit, is anyone listening? johnny mercer, welcome to hardtalk.
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thanks. it was quite a leap that you made four or so years ago, when you left the british army and decided that you would enter politics. has that transition been harder or actually easier than you thought it would be? well, i didn't actually have any preconceptions around going into politics because i knew nothing about it. i'd never voted, been to westminster... never voted? never voted, and i know that's not a great thing to have done. but when you're going through the process of war fighting, you will go anyway, whoever the government is. one reason or another, you feel disconnected from that, and i never got around to voting, i never had an interest in politics. so i didn't have any preconceptions about what it would be like. aspects of it have certainly been difficult, some aspects, not so much. but it is a journey,
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and i learn something everyday. we'll talk about the journey and what you have experienced on it. but i am interested to know why, when you quite explicitly say that you were pretty unimpressed with the politicians that you met as a soldier, foreign secretaries, even prime ministers would come out to afghanistan on morale boosting visits to the troops, you say that frankly, you did not think they knew much about what was going on, and you felt they were indulging in pretty simple rhetoric. so, what on earth attracted you to that career? because actually, when i looked at them, and you're right, i felt like that when i looked at these people, and there is nothing bad about it, there just wasn't that connection between the military and political systems. we saw the symptoms of that through iraq and afghanistan, whether it was a good tactics, leaving too early or so on. but i thought if i wanted to change something, i have to get elected.
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whatever i say, they have the power to make executive decisions, because they're elected. so if i want to make a decision or change something, i have to get elected, whether that is the military, mental health... and those coalesce in your mind. look, it was not a pleasant realisation that i was going to become a member of parliament, it is not something i thought about, and there are certainly aspects that are difficult to get your head around. is that not disingenuous? you can fall into politics, you have to fight hard to win your nomination for your seat, a lot of doorstep campaigning to get elected, it's not something happens by accident. it is not about politics, it's not about getting a career in politics. it's about using politics as a vehicle to get things done. and when you actually believe in something and want to change it, you genuinely think that you can change it, that's why you do it.
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so that commitment is huge. you have written a powerful book about your military experience. it seems the army meant so much to you, it was almost a family? i think it is a fair point. when you join as a young person, man or woman, i think a lot has been said about the military over the last few years, lots of mistakes have been made, but one thing that still gets me is the journey you can go on. you canjoin as a young man, what it gets is a raw product from society and what turns into afterwards is a life enhancing experience. and it certainly was that for me. i'm made great friends, i had great expenses, and yes, i turned from a boy into a man in the military. i'm not ashamed of that, i was proud of it, something i was proud to do at the time. i used the word family advisedly, because you have also been surprisingly honest and frank about a difficult upbringing you had. your family was very large, you are one of eight children,
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very religious parents. and it seems it was somewhat chaotic, somewhat hot—tempered, and you clearly had some mental health issues as a child. because it seems you did not find it a very stable family environment? i think that is fair. i don't want to get into too much, but it was an unstable environment, and that caused problems, as it would for anyone. whether for myself or for my wider family, i think we all cope with that in its own way. it was very clear that that part of your life is very formative, and it certainly was that for me. but i left that behind and ijoined the army, and the army was... you are being terribly british about it, because i can tell you don't want to talk about it. although you have written about it, which is why raised it. but you say for example, that religion dominated every
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aspect of life at home, your father, you felt was full of guilt and expressed that sometimes in very hot tempered, difficult reactions to things. and i am wondering whether the army was important to you because it actually, in a funny way, despite serving in war zones on that it gave you a stability that you hadn't had as a child that you desperately missed ? absolutely. and a child growing up, you need your left and right, your boundaries, your stability, and that predictability is really important. yes, the military provided me with that in some ways. this is maybe a difficult question to answer, but when you reflect on yourself as a teenager, and i know you spent time at boarding school, do you think you were mentally unwell? without a doubt, i think i struggled with aspects of my own behaviour, certainly around
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obsessive—compulsive disorder. and that was an issue that i recognised in myself, and i received a bit of help for. look, it was part of my history, absolutely, it was one of the coping mechanisms that i had growing up. it was something that taught me a lot about myself, about what makes me tick, what motivates me, what i struggle to cope with. and i think i became stronger for it, there's this perception around mental health at the moment, that you get a mental health problem, and that's it. there is an area of management to it, it is an ongoing thing you need to work on, but you can get better and go on to have a life completely uninhibited. and that is certainly what the army did for me, and moving on from that. it is very striking, a relatively
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struggled —— troubled kid ends up commanding men on a ferociously difficult front line in afghanistan on three separate tours of duty. obviously facing fire numerous times, and you actually had extraordinarily difficult experiences with, for example, one of your best mates in the army being shot through the head in front of you. did you than reexperience some of the mental issues you have had before, or did you cope? is odd because i know people go through these things, poster manic stress has different effects on different people. jim mattis in the state to command a lot of soldiers going through rack and selma —— so long, there is poster manic growth where you don't like of these experience can iron you out. but you realise you can cope with expenses. i realise i had a tough time growing up, buti realise i had a tough time growing up, but i have to confess that during my period on operations and
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commanding up operations, there are aspects of it that i found extremely difficult to readjust to, particularly when i came home. but i did not suffer with these issues, in a way, that they be stronger, and they certainly made me who i am today. in a way, i think they provided a bit of a platform to go to what i'm doing now. there are certainly aspects of, things you acquire around as is, resilience and loyalty, looking after people, that you employ now. so now i find that those operations were a better rock, informed me as a young man. again, having looked at the book, we were warriors, your memoir of conflict, it is extort barry. you said nothing prepares you for the repeat expenses of war. at the end, i felt estimated, completely destroyed inside. and i did, but this was after a prolonged period of
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operation. citizen born to remember in afghanistan, we were putting british ships through cycles we had not seen before. back in world war ii, there were lots more units, people cycling out of conflicts. in afghanistan, we were asking people to go amanda lines for six or seven months at a time, their compact —— conducted two patrols a day. that is a lot of conflict —— on that. i do not think that is too much because we are professional soldiers, we are ready to do it. but i do think we need to manage the stress, not only in theatre, but when they come home. and that is a duty for everyone, not just the people who get a hard time, but all through the chain of command. we have to be cognizant of some people's experiences, people who are different to the map —— best majority. one out of nine soldiers who deployed did not leave the wire, and not all those who left the wire went into particularly difficult patrols. so there was a broad variety of experience, some of us
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are addicted in and of the wedge on that one, and i do think we have a duty to those who struggle with that to look after them, that is one of the things that propelled me into politics. when you say leave the wire, you mean leave the safety of bases and get out in to the fire? do expenses you had, one where you found yourself isolated and alone in a firefight, with a bullet to tell them firefight —— taliban fighters trying to kill you, and dracula sleeve described —— survived, but you describe how utterly frightening it was and how you shook and shook when you emerged from it. the other one was the death of your friend, who as i said it was shot and died in the battlefield. i get the feeling that you do sometimes wonder whether all of that was worth that, given what we see today in afghanistan. do you? yes, i in this
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country, this is why i came into politics, because i do feel we have lost the ability to have the courage and backbone to see these things through to an end state where we are happy with. if you look at our withdrawal from afghanistan, it is like a rock. it was calendar based, not conditions based, not like how you should conduct an operation. largely what we have done has been around the british electoral cycle, and for those of us who fought, that is very painful to take, because we are totally committed to the mission and try to achieve a conditions based... maybe the mission is unachievable? may be going in with the view that you can somehow fundamentally change a society is misplaced to begin with?” fundamentally change a society is misplaced to begin with? i do not think it is misplaced, but you have to commit fully to the task. whilst you are going to have to get the security aspect of things right so that law and order can take hold, you have to go harder after
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corruption. you cannot allow officials to be elected who have no credibility and cannot bring the people with them. counterinsurgency wa rfa re people with them. counterinsurgency warfare works, but it has to be done properly, it must be resourced properly, it must be resourced properly, but ultimately politically, it must be committed to. and that is where we filled —— failed in iraq and afghanistan. recent survey said that 70% of the territory of the nation is out operationally open to the taliban —— taliban, the american are ram the presents, there is question over whether the british should follow and support in the revving of operations. would you think?|j and support in the revving of operations. would you think? i think we should, we have been very co mforta ble we should, we have been very comfortable in this country, we have almost become isolationist. you only have to look at syria to see how badly wrong you can get it when you don't intervene. intervention is not pretty, we have this idea and our head that were in conflict is as binary, and it is not. it is being sold as i lie to the british people, it isa sold as i lie to the british people, it is a messy business, but i do not think standing on the sidelines and
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letting these things happen like they are in afghanistan is the right answer. you say that, and a corollary of that is that more men go into the danger zone and face the very real prospect of not coming back. and yet you say it when you clearly feel that today, there is something deeply dysfunctional about the way the united kingdom treats not just its the way the united kingdom treats notjust its active soldiers, but its vetera ns notjust its active soldiers, but its veterans as well? the so—called military government seems to be broken, in your view? absolutely. i think there is a serious issue in this country around its relationship with the military. veterans, let's talk about them. there is a completeness reception around vetera ns, completeness reception around veterans, almost anybody who has had anything to do with the military, it is statistically impossible for anyone who's says they have ptsd to have ptsd, it has become a catchall environment for any number of problems that people will hit during their life. and the problem with thatis their life. and the problem with that is that if we do not deal with
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that is that if we do not deal with that problem, we will not get to those who are genuinely ill that need our helps —— held as a result of those operations. and i think we have lost an opportunity, through this afghanistan and iraq period, these great numbers of veterans are coming out and really gripping this debate and changing it fundamentally like americans after vietnam. there's no question that the american mindset towards it's vetera ns american mindset towards it's veterans is very different than that of britain. but you seem to be saying we in britain are somewhat hung up on, for example, exit —— investigating alleged abuses by the military. we know what happened in a rack and the years of uk intervention after 2003. the implication of what you're saying is that you do not feel it is right to invest —— investigate abuses by the military? i have been very clear and straightforward on this from the start. anyone in my position always wa nts start. anyone in my position always wants to see allegations and bad
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apples investigated, because there's no place for them. with respect, you said things like us, and this is a direct quote. the unwarranted pursuit of service personnel through the courts is a stain on our national character, the obsession with historical allegations is unacceptable. absolutely right, because these individuals are going through an investigation in the first place, but what is happening, people who cannot or do i want to accept the result of a fair and impartial investigation, and some will try to rewrite history, they are possibly revisiting these incidents to try and get some sort of retribution, and is not fair on the individuals. for example, those who have died in custody... he is a case of his own, and i have those who... i case of his own, and i have those who. .. i understand case of his own, and i have those who... i understand the case of the last week, that —— someone died, and thatis last week, that —— someone died, and that is not lost on me. but the reaction to that should not be investigations over 15 years into the same soldiers about the same incident. but it gets to the heart
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of the difference between the united states and uk. we in the uk hold our military to the very highest of standards. and the fact that there are historical and dutch investigations into alleged abuses into iraq and afghanistan, it is something we should be proud of, not ashamed of. i totally dispute the fa ct ashamed of. i totally dispute the fact that americans do not hold themselves to the highest standards, thatis themselves to the highest standards, that is not what this is about. we do as well, you only have to look at recent history as a how we have held oui’ recent history as a how we have held our servicemen recent history as a how we have held oui’ servicemen to recent history as a how we have held our servicemen to account. i agree and encourage that, i do not know anyone serving food does not encourage that, because we go on operations to work hard and up of old rule of law. this is separate, this is an attempt to continually pursue these individuals, sometimes yea rs pursue these individuals, sometimes years after they have left service, and the government has let this industry spawned, and it has ruined lives across this country. final thought, i do not know if you saw the very end of last year, the chief prosecutor of the international
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criminal court in the hague said she believes there is a reasonable basis to continue to believe that uk soldiers committed war crimes against detainees are in iraq conflict. i would say we need to see the evidence, because is has been investigated numbers of times. nobody as far as i'm aware, they have not done a single prosecution from this. we want to see prosecutions, if someone has done something wrong, they must be prosecuted, but that is not what this is about. many senior military officials, including senior serving officers, have suggested in the recent days and months that they believe there is a fundamental problem, that the british armed forces are being hollowed out, 82,000 serving soldiers, concerns about the navy and air force as well, and it is no longer a full spectrum capable fighting force.|j think it has been a long time
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coming. we really struggled in iraq, we struggled at the beginning in afghanistan, the equipment a lot better, and i am pleased these people are speaking up, but there is more fun little problems than just money. if i was a chancellor at the moment, and i am one of the biggest advocates of military spending, i would find it difficult to get the military more money at the moment without serious reform. the waste that goes on at the moment is still i watering, and we have not had this national conversation about what we wa nt national conversation about what we want the armed forces for, what we expect them to do, what is the vision of a modern uk military? until we have that, i can completely understand the reticence to endlessly pour money into the mod when you have all these other priorities that are far more important to some others, and i understand that. maybe there's not much right now, centralfocus on these issues, because so much of the political oxygen is being sucked up by brexit. you're a conservative mp,
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you say you join the party not for strong ideological reasons, but because you had things to accomplish. and we talked about those. but you have to take a view on brexit now. are you prepared to break with your party on the issue ofa break with your party on the issue of a customs union, to say that britain needs to stay inside a customs union? i am not, i'm afraid, i'm one of those who voted to remain, ifi i'm one of those who voted to remain, if i had my vote again, i would vote again, i would go to leave. i can completely see why swathes of this country decided they did not want to be part of the european union any more, and what communities in this country have felt about the eu and how politicians tried to sell that to them, that is ourjob as politicians, to represent that, and ican politicians, to represent that, and i can see that across the country. i was in munich two weeks ago, and eve ryo ne was in munich two weeks ago, and everyone “— was in munich two weeks ago, and everyone —— every time i went to the continent, i could see why this country continent, i could see why this cou ntry wa nts to continent, i could see why this country wants to leave the eu. we need to get that done, if i got to the doors in plymouth, lots of
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people think we have left already, and we need to get that done. if that requires leaving the customs union, then i'm afraid we get on with it, because people are asking us with it, because people are asking us to answer other fundamental questions around the nhs and economy, and we cannot get onto those walls we continue to pick up the bones of brexit. a former leader of your country, john major, says this is so important that parliament ultimately must decide the fate of the brexit deal. he says it should not be decided on party lines, every mp should vote with their conscience ina mp should vote with their conscience in a free vote. do you agree with him? given the arithmetic of the moment, it is pretty much a free vote. i am a huge fan ofjohn major... the numbers are very slim, people are prepared to vote either way. you will get a situation where people will vote with their consciences. but what i would say on this isjohn consciences. but what i would say on this is john major, consciences. but what i would say on this isjohn major, lots of respect for him and tony blair, who has spoken on this today, we have to understand that they‘ re
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spoken on this today, we have to understand that they're selling of this european union contest project contributed to where we are today. and have people been given a view on the lisbon treaty, had we address people's concerns on immigration, we would not be here. now we need a fresh approach, and that strategic vision about what brexit means in britain going forward past next year. is interesting you say we need a strategic vision, you're not getting that from theresa may. is it time for somebody else to lead your party? changing prime minister at the moment is one of the worst things we could possibly do, because we have to form a resilient base around her so she can go to the european union imac you said this government, very recently, it is being too resident to meet the challenges of the day. we need leadership. we need leadership. every time theresa may does something, whether she says a statement about leaving the dutch customs union or not leaving the customs union or not leaving the customs union, she gets a lesson for
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my colleagues on one side of the argument. and she is hemmed in by this process. however you feel about brexit now, any division apart from the premise or and away from the government, if you are a member of this party, if you look at it from europe, you can only see that we are going to get seen off, and we will get... isn't the truth of -- that this is tearing her party apart?|j this is tearing her party apart?” do not accept that, i accept that there are serious challenges around this. i would there are serious challenges around this. iwould not there are serious challenges around this. i would not stick my hand in the sand and pretend it isn't. but i do not think this is a valid —— defining issue of the conservative party. i know i can be alone in that regard, but i think being part of the modern conservative party is not getting things right, like public services, infrastructure, that is what being in this party is about. this is an issue we absolutely have to tackle because it has been going on for long before i turned up here. but when we get to 2019, we have to give people to vote for. johnny
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mercer, we must end it there, but thank you for being on hardtalk. pleasure, thanks very much. thank you very much indeed. hello there. we've seen some really treacherous conditions quite widely across the uk. seems like this, as a result of the heavy snow earlier on. we had this red warning from the met office in the southwest and part of wales. we still have some warnings of more snow to come as we head into the morning. across northern ireland, across scotland and even to the central part in the northeast of england, frequent snow showers.
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around here, those warnings expire at ten o'clock. expiring a little earlier, perhaps this amber warning further south for missing the focus of some very snowy weather notably across hampshire. that snow due to storm emma, which is pushed his way to the north. the cold air, the beast from the east, that east wind. threading away from the southwest and perhaps things will be quite so bad as we get to the end of the night. it will be cold, not as cold, because there is a good deal of cloud around. we still have those strong easterly winds. there is the fact of more snow on friday. we had the snow showers across scotland, across the northeast of england running the central belt. some still threatens northern ireland we could see some more snow arriving upper across southern parts of england and into wales, especially in the afternoon. how quickly? this is what it will feel like
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another cold day to come. but things will solely change over the weekend. instead of that bitter easterly winds, we will see something push—up more from the south. this is certainly less cold air, and that will percolate its way. slowly but surely over the next few days, still some cold winds from the northern half of the uk, still some snow showers around here coming in off the north sea. and we may have a lot of clout further south, for the most part, will be dry, but still a threat of rain coming into southernmost counties over land and to the hills. a very messy picture for saturday. winds are easing down. still be that the some icy conditions and passes snow moving northwards overnight. to the south of that, we may see some rain and perhaps some fleeting snow mixed in there but is not as cold. it will not be as cold, not purely snow as it has been, with a mixture of wintry weather. temperatures rising in and across scotland.
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temperatures will be as low as recently. we are gradually going to lose that really cold easterly wind. it will still be cold for us this weekend, but not as cold. we have a risk of rain. i am mariko oi in singapore. the headlines. president trump says he will impose steep import tariffs on steel and aluminium in a move likely to provoke a backlash from china. boko haram strikes again, kidnapping over a hundred schoolgirls in nigeria. now nearly a fortnight on, eye—witness accounts start to emerge. i am kasia madera in london. when of russia's new generation of weapons unveiled by president putin say they can't evade us defence system. and hoping for oscar glory... the profoundly deaf six
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