following the italian general election. no political grouping is thought to have won an outright majority but five star, which was established less than ten years ago, has emerged as the single biggest party. the united states has issued its strongest condemnation yet of the syrian government assault on the rebel—held enclave of eastern ghouta. president bashar al assad said the offensive would continue and dismissed assessments of the humanitarian situation in the enclave as ridiculous lies. south korea is sending a high—level delegation to north korea on monday. the discussions are expected to focus on the prospect of resuming dialogue between pyongyang and washington. that delegation is then due to travel to the united states. the us is calling for north korea to end its nuclear programme. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk,

from little rock, arkansas. i'm stephen sackur. nowadays, this city is associated with bill clinton. this is where he launched his political career, serving as state governor. but little rock has another important place in america's recent history. it was here at little rock central high school that one of the key battles of the civil rights era was fought. in september 1957, nine black students enrolled at this all—white high school. it followed a supreme court decision to end school segregation but the state governor here and his troopers were determined that that wasn't going to happen. after a protracted standoff, the little rock nine won their right

to enter central high. and this is the monument to their achievement. like rosa parks before them, they came to embody the bravery behind the civil rights struggle. and my guest today is one of them, elizabeth eckford. she wasjust 15 in 1957, but one extraordinary photograph ensures that her role will be forever remembered. hardtalk theme music plays. elizabeth eckford, welcome to hardtalk

and thank you very much for inviting me into your home. you are very welcome. let me begin by asking you something that just struck me, as i was walking into your house, you have had six decades of people eating a path to your door, you have had six decades of people beating a path to your door, wanting to talk to you because, as it happened, you played an extraordinary role, as an individual, in the civil rights movement here in the united states. i just wonder whether you ever sometimes wish that things had gone differently, that you did not have all of this attention upon you? well, you know, when i was a child, i was very, very shy. i was a submissive child from a household where my parents, frankly, were benevolent oligarchs. we knew that they loved us. each worked two jobs to take care, six kids, paid a car note and paid a house note...

in this very house? yes, same house. yeah. it does not look the same but it's the same house. so it was not a household that was full of sort of radicalism, the beginnings of the sort of demand for civil rights, equality and justice. how could it be that you, as a pretty shy, timid 15—year—old, ended up on that first list of black students who were going to enrol at the white high school — how did that happen? actually, it almost didn't happen. i had asked my mother, during spring, when we were told that central would be desegregated the following fall, if i could go. and — i call her the queen of no, now that she is not around... this is your mom? yeah, um, but this time she did not say no and that was uncharacteristic of my mother. here is what a writer who wrote

a very interesting and long piece about you on the 50th anniversary of the events at little rock high in 1957. she wrote this, she said, "she was..." he wrote this, she said, "she was..." talking of you, "she was a painfully shy 15—year—old daughter of a hyper protective mother, who was actually reluctant to challenge the age—old so racial moras, in fact, elizabeth was the unlikeliest trailblazer of all." yes, yes, not only because of my personality but also because of my mother. in our household both parents were always on the same page for decisions. it took a long time to get to "yes" for them and so when the names of the 17 students who were selected were in the newspaper,

i told my parents that it was almost too late, that i had to go. the reason i wanted to go is that i wanted to get the best education possible. i had been brought up in a working—class family but i had been brought up with the assumption that i would go to college and i knew that, to do that, i needed to get scholarships. but do you think that you or your mum or your dad had any idea of the scale of the opposition and the hate and the violence that could be start up amongst whites in this town? this was a total shock. violence in school was not part of the 1950s and it being allowed to continue day after day... first it was thought that things would get better as time goes on, and when it didn't change and even

a few students who had made friendly overtures to us now turned their backs so the only voices being heard were the voices of people who were organised to attack us, both physically and verbally... who were systematically racist. yes. but before we spend too much time thinking about the impact that had on you once you started at central high, let's stick with the moment that you actually were the first black student to appear at the high school — i believe it was september 4th, when you first tried to get into the school and, because of a bit of a mixup over timings, the other eight were not with you? yes, but i was not the only one who came there independently. terence roberts, who lived within walking distance of the school, less than ten blocks

away from the school, walked to the school, and after he was turned away, he came and tried to encourage me to leave with him. right, but the fact is, for several minutes, you are pretty much isolated as you faced, notjust one or two, but actually a couple of 100, at least, white people — now some of them young and some of them old — who had gathered to try to block any black student getting into school that day. yes. that was shocking. what was more shocking to me was that i had thought that the national guard was there to protect all students, including me. they were there to keep me out and i did not realise that, until i was turned away the third time and even directed to go across the street, where those angry voices were.

i have been reading some of the words that were directed at you — 15 years old, and these are some of the words, "lynch her", people said, they used the "n" word. and they said, "get out of our school," "go back to where you came from." and some said they thought i should go back to africa... laughs. they actually said that? yes. even though you were born and raised in their town, your town. some believed that i was somebody who had been brought here, specifically to disrupt their lives... to make trouble. to make trouble, yeah. now what in a sense, made this particularly remarkable for you and lived through the ages as your experience was one photograph. the picture is remarkable for lots of different reasons.

i mean, the dignity in your pose and the sense of isolation, amongst all those white faces, that there is in you, but, of course, the other reason it is remarkable is because it captures the rage in the face of one young woman, a fellow student, hazel bryan, who is right behind you and her face is twisted in a shout. at the time, were you aware of her presence and her shouting? for a long time, i did not know who she was and finally i did learn herfirst name but, after a while, i forgot it. the trauma you went through — september 11th you were turned away, you had to turn back, the national guard were not going to let you in, the people did not want you in and you just had to turn around. i just wonder why your parents, at that point, did not say,

enough, we cannot put elizabeth through that again, we are going to have to go back on this plan, we're going to have to put her back in the black school. my mother had been an accommodator, to avoid difficulty with white people. she had grown up in rural arkansas, where schools only went to the eighth grade, and their livelihood depended upon the goodwill of white people. right. she came to little rock as a teenager in order to get high school education and she's not unique in that. when we get to the reality of what it was like for you, 15—year—old elizabeth, inside the school, here are some quotations i have taken from what were later released as the collected papers of, i believe, the headmistress of the school. later we found this, an account of the days after you had gone into the school.

october 28th, "elizabeth shoved in the hallway". november 20th, "elizabeth jostled in the gym". november 21st, "elizabeth hit with an implement". december 10th, "elizabeth kicked". december 18, "elisabeth punched". january 10, "elisabeth shoved on the stairs". january 1a, "elisabeth knocked flat". that was your reality? yes. and... a lot of the horrible things that happened was in gym. 0ur showers did not have barriers between...partitions between people so when the water turned suddenly hot, very hot, i could see that the girl on this side and the girl on this side had turned their water off — they had anticipated it — which brings to mind the many, many bystanders who turned their backs

and acted like they didn't hear or see what was happening. that makes a person who is being attacked feel like they think we are getting what we deserve and that is one thing that encourages me to speak out, to let people know how powerful they can be in someone‘s life who is being set apart and attacked and other people are ignoring it. there were two students at my school who engaged me in ordinary conversation every day. you mean white students? yes, two white students,

and i knew they had to have paid a price for that. i did not know what until many, may years later. i learned that the girl who lived outside the town, on a farm, and herfather hired armed guards, and the boy was supported by his parents. the atmosphere was toxic, really. yes. and you, this very year, have written a book about bullying and what children experience when they are terribly bullied. i just wonder now that you reflect on it, do you think, frankly, that it damaged you in ways that you have had to live with for the rest of your life? yes, that is apparent when ijump when i hear outside noises. but most of the attacks were behind me and i only turned around once

and so i couldn't identify my attackers and. . . but what was most important to me were the people who supported me and that allowed me to want to tell students, particularly, that they can help somebody live another day by engaging them in a humane way, by acknowledging that even though they are different that that difference does not mean that they would hate them. that is very powerful to a person who's been hurt and isolated. as an individual, you suffered so much and what you did was part of something so much bigger — that is, the struggle for civil rights — that wasn'tjust about desegregating the schools, it was obviously about so many other

things too, but do you think, in a sense, "i was sacrificed to a bigger, wider movement"? it was a self—sacrifice, a self—sacrifice. i had to make a decision every day that i was going to go back into that hellhole. i knew what i would be facing after a while. um... but... one of the little rock nine was a girl who had a hole in her heart, years and years before open—heart surgery was available. in fact, she didn't have a surgery until after she had graduated from college and she was in a crisis. so, um... how could i leave her behind? i wonder if, it it ultimately helped you to come back to little rock, because after school you spent quite a few years out of this place...

yes. and i know those were really tough years for you. i didn't know the full extent of — of my experiences. i didn't know how damaging — how damaged i was, but i felt like i was fortunate to be in environments where people didn't know anything about my background. right, you wanted to just be out of that for a while. yeah, uh huh. uh huh. yes. but it wasn't making you happy because you were... no, i had periodic depression, serious depression. but i never knew, i didn't understand why. i didn't understand that i had post traumatic stress, and i have... i didn't start talking to students until... 1990... seven, i think.

and... which is a0 years... yes. after. well, for 30 years, none of us talked about what it was like for us inside school. most people think the worst happened on the first day. yeah. but it was much more than that. but it also brings me to ask you about the complicated relationship that you developed with hazel brown, who was the girl we referred to earlier in the picture, who was yelling at you with hate in herface. yes, yes. the photographer who took that picture introduced me to her a couple of days before the 40th anniversary, and um... i knew that she felt a lot of trepidation about going public, um... she had told her sons, who were the older kids, about the picture that they would encounter... to prepare them, but i remember

being with herfamily members and i remember her daughter saying, that she was looking through a book and she said "that's my momma." she had not been prepared. um... but the point is, hazel wanted... she wanted... she wanted to reach out to you. yes. she had called me in 1963, during the summer... to apologise. but, um, she neversaid what she was apologising for. how do you — what do you mean by that? you think somehow she wanted you to forgive her but she didn't want to delve deep into... where she was at and what she had done? yes, yes, yes. in fact, i began to realise — we spent two years together. you mean after 97?

yes. uh huh. gradually i began to realise that she wasn't acknowledging the full extent of what she had done. she told one reporter that life is more than a moment and she should bejudged — should not bejudged just on that moment, but also i had acquired three different videotapes of her having some moments. and, um... she eventually said that she had amnesia... about her past. you mean about other incidents where it appears tht she was expressing racism? yeah, and her parents removed herfrom central sometime during march — no, i'm sorry, much earlier than that, sometime during october,

1957 because... they said for her safety. ijust wonder if here there may be some deeper sort of metaphor about where america is, because reconciliation is not easy. no, it isn't. and, you know, you've had the congressional gold medal, you've had the meetings with bill clinton, and the statues erected in your honour and the little rock nine‘s honour, and you have become a hugely respected figure because of the way you've handled your own personal experience, but in the end, for america to really come to terms with all of this is not aboutjust putting up statues and giving gold medals out, it's about every person's heart and mind changing, and i wonder if you feel that is really happening. this is my mantra. the only way we can have real reconciliation is to honestly acknowledge our painful but shared past. let me ask you this.

i dare say not so very far from this house there will be a young 15—year—old black girl, who is currently enrolled in central high, here in little rock. do you believe that her life, her opportunities, her experience, is going to be much better, much easier, for sure, than yours, or not? i know that the possibilities for her future are — will be... better than mine were. because so much has changed, especially opportunities for women. but... that depends upon her being prepared. i tell students that it is their obligation to prepare themselves for their futures, and those who don't prepare will be cast aside. i don't pretty it up,

i just tell them straight up they will be cast aside. we've talked a lot about what has happened in the states in your long life and, i just wonder, when we talked about the journey and you expressed your concerns about america today, you said "the journey is nowhere near complete. in fact, we're still near the beginning", but do you have faith that ultimately, thatjourney will lead to a place where the races are equal, wherejustice and equality are guaranteed for all americans, including black americans? that's my hope for the future. but it's been a long time coming, and it will be, uh... i don't know whether i'll live to see it. i don't know whether i

will live to see it. but, um... it's my hope for the future. i understand my place in history. i'm an historicalfootnote — that's what i am, not a celebrity. when i started talking to students, i would cry during my presentations. i have worked my way to where that doesn't happen any more, but i guess i was doing my own exposure therapy. i didn't even know about exposure therapy until recent years. elizabeth eckford, it has been a real honour to talk to you and thank you for letting me into your house, and thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you. when i have an opportunity to speak to the public, i always remind them of how powerful their voices can be in support of a person who is being hurt.

hello. thanks forjoining me. ijust want to bring you right up—to—date with how we see the next week of weather for the british isles. given the extent and the severity of the conditions that we endured last week, no great surprise if i tell you that the snow‘s not just going to magically disappear. things will gradually improve, and for that we have to thank an area of low pressure, which will supply relatively mild airs from the atlantic, rather than dragging in cold air yet again from the near continent. but that mild air comes at something of a price. it'll be a murky start across the central and southern parts of the british isles. further north, as we drag moisture

into a colder regime across scotland, so we will see further snowfall, mostly on the hills but some of it getting down to lower levels. and in the south, some of those showers really quite heavy and prolonged. from monday into tuesday, that low pressure still very close by to the british isles. notice we're dragging a weather front ever further towards the north, and again, as things dry out under fairly leaden skies across england and wales, so we push that moisture on the front up into a pretty cold regime. and again, for the most part across the high ground, that's where we're going to see further significant snowfall. further south, it's a fairly quiet sort of day. and as we get from tuesday on into wednesday, you'll see there are very few isobars across the south. so again, it could be pretty murky. sunshine rather in short supply, there will be some brightness, there'll be the odd sharp shower in the south. looking further north, i think the snowfall becoming confined to the north—western quarter, so some relief at last for southern and eastern parts. northern ireland, a smattering of showers, a little bit of sleet perhaps across the highest ground.

still pretty quiet as we move from wednesday to thursday. this middle section of the week marked by some night—time frosts, and because the days are just that little bit cooler, there could be a little bit of wintriness about the showers, particularly across the higher ground of northern britain. further south, the weather front may just introduce some rain to the channel islands and to some of the channel coastal counties. temperatures not quite as widely in double figures as they may well have been at the first half of the week. thursday into friday, we may develop a low pressure close to scotland, so unsettled fare there. we may eventually drag some weather fronts with milder air up into the south—western quarter of the british isles as well, but in between, a pretty quiet sort of day and those temperatures just beginning to ratchet up by a degree or two in the beginning of the week. so this is the lineup for the week ahead, becoming slightly milder. it will be a bit unsettled

and there could well be some snow, particularly for scotland. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story: no out—right winner in italy's general election, but the anti—establishment, five star movement, says it holds the balance of power. new research shows that australia could become the first country in the world to eradicate cervical cancer. a golden night for the silver screen — the shape of water is named best film at this year's 0scars. china is set to make sweeping changes that would give president xi has more power and consolidate control over its regulatory policies. in business briefing we'll be live to beijing where the national people's congress is underway.