tv HAR Dtalk BBC News March 7, 2018 12:30am-1:01am GMT
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the white house top economic advisor, gary cohn, has announced his resignation. mr cohn was said to have been unhappy with the president's threat to impose tariffs on steel and aluminium imports. the us has cautiously responded to news that north korea might consider giving up its nuclear programme. donald trump has described the latest statements from seoul and pyongyang as a positive step. and this video is trending on bbc.com... remember this photo of a little girl staring up in awe at a new portrait of michelle obama 7 well now the former first lady has met little parker curry and posted this clip saying, "parker, keep on dreaming big for yourself...and maybe one day i'll proudly look up at a portrait of you!" that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk.
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i'm stephen sackur. donald trump claims he can broker the deal of the century between israel and palestine. instead, he seems to have entrenched the hostility. my my guess is that they are trained arab israeli mp and one—time adviser to yasser arafat, ahmad tibi. is the arab—israeli experience a sign that the uneasy, messy status quo is the only viable response to the conflict betweenjewish and arab communities? hardtalk theme music plays. ahmad tibi, welcome to hardtalk
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thank you. i think we have to start with the impact of the donald trump presidency on relations between palestinians and israelis. would you agree that it has fundamentally changed the dynamic in the region? yes, for the negative. i think that trump and his administration promoted anarchy in the region and anarchy in the world by supporting, enhancing, encouraging violation of international law and adopting one side as opposed to the other. president trump via his speech about jerusalem he adopted these rarely narrative and the occupation narrative. to say that he and his
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three musketeers, advises who are great supporters, adopted the talking points of benjamin netanyahu... you talking points of benjamin netanyahu. .. you can make your point about international law but surely what donald trump has recognised reality in perhaps a more honest way the previous american president is because the truth is it is obvious to everyone that the israeli capital is injerusalem, to everyone that the israeli capital is in jerusalem, it to everyone that the israeli capital is injerusalem, it is where the cabinet needs, and donald trump said enough with this nonsense. that is nonsense. because 1967, jerusalem was occupied in 1967, that is the reality. if there is a thief in the area and he has taken your house, thatis area and he has taken your house, that is a reality but you are not supposed to accept reality as legitimate faq. coloneltrump announced he would move the embassy
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tojerusalem, announced he would move the embassy to jerusalem, and we announced he would move the embassy tojerusalem, and we understand it may happen quicker than we thought but he said i not prejudging what the two parties finally agree on jerusalem, they can do what they want, they can divide it in the future as they wish, we are simply recognise it what is seen to be israel's capital. he said more than that. in 1980, there was a motion saying exactly what he said in his speech. he adopted that low of unified capital of israel, containing the supreme court, the government, parliament. he adopted that phrasing, even. he did not say that phrasing, even. he did not say thatjerusalem is an occupied area, thatjerusalem is an occupied area, thatjerusalem is an occupied area, thatjerusalem should thatjerusalem is an occupied area, that jerusalem should be thatjerusalem is an occupied area, thatjerusalem should be the capital of the palestinians and this is the most dangerous thing, he is dealing with jerusalem as
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most dangerous thing, he is dealing withjerusalem as it is an internal issue of the israelis and it is not. the fact is, he remains the most powerful man in the world— you could perhaps argue about that, china is rising power— but he has a really a decision that reflects the fact that frankly many palestinians without knowledge, you have lost. you have lost in the sense that your interests are lost in the sense that your interests a re never lost in the sense that your interests are never going to be achievable. i do not agree with you totally. you do in part? it is one of the most toughest and it difficult areas for the palestinian people, i agree with that, but we have had much more difficult phases in our history, in palestinian history. this nation, the palestinian people, is very much in
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sijsling in implementing and achieving its national rights and it is the rights of the people under occupation seeking to be freed, to be independent, to be sovereign, alongside the state of israel and mr trump is saying the palestinians and israelis, you will take it all and he will take nothing. he has qualified himself as a broker. he will take nothing. he has qualified himself as a brokerlj he will take nothing. he has qualified himself as a broker. i am wondering as and israelis citizen, you serve in the knesset knesset, you serve in the knesset knesset, you represent the interests of the arab israeli people. reaction from hamas leaders saying we would not allow trump's declaration to pass evenif allow trump's declaration to pass even if we lose our heads in the process , even if we lose our heads in the process, all the talk of a new intifada, the talk of palestinians
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putting their life on the line, we have been here so many times before, is there not now be we resignation that says to you, in the privacy of your mind, there is no point any more to this sort of talk of laying down our lives, new in the —— into fibres, we are part of the palestinian people. there are three parts, palestinians inside is right, in 67 areas, and in the diaspora. we are supporting palestinians self—determination and this right is not negotiable and we are, as citizens, from the podium, from the knesset knesset, we are promoting israeli—palestinian peace, we are
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not supporting violence, we have said it in the past always, i am supporting nonviolent popular resistance. it has succeeded in the last year when the church closed... when the government official tried to impose taxes on the christian church injerusalem. to impose taxes on the christian church in jerusalem. one could say it is easy to you to talk about protests, the usual words in the knesset. but if you lived in the occupied west bank, the reality is much more desperate. a young girl in the west bank village who struck out atan the west bank village who struck out at an israeli officer because she was so angry about what the troops we re was so angry about what the troops were doing in and around the village, she is now in a court facing serious charges and may well end up in prison. it is easy for you
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as an arab — israelis to say that but it is much for difficult for others to jeopardise their freedom. i accompanying her in the military court... you can walk away at the end of the day. 13 of us were shot way snipers and killed in 2000. citizens of the state of israel because we just demonstrated against sharon getting in. from that point, until today, 55 arab citizens were killed by the israelis security authorities without being prosecuted. we are in danger because of the way israeli police is dealing with us as enemy is not as citizens but i not in a position to reach
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palestinians in gaza and the west bank how to resist. —— to preach to. people are resisting... really, it is not your fight... people are resisting... really, it is not your fight. .. my nation fight. i is not your fight. .. my nation fight. i am a palestinian... and also an israeli. you have the vote, you have a seat in the knesset knesset. there is a difference between you and the people living under occupation and we can talk about the subset of the palestinians living in excel... they are suffering much more. living in excel... they are suffering much morelj living in excel... they are suffering much more. i am interesting in the position of the arab israeli and amongst arab israelis, the overwhelming feeling is one of query acceptance. opinion polls show that a clear majority of arab israelis have a positive feeling a bout of their lives in israel. a positive feeling. feeling a bout of their lives in israel. a positive feelinglj
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feeling a bout of their lives in israel. a positive feeling. i am smiley because i am living there. —— smiling. arab citizens are discriminated in all fields of life and in pauls, scientific polls, not israeli journalist polls, they are feeling second or third degree citizens. budget, employment, agriculture, nonindustrial zones, we are discriminated in all fields of life. a major poll says 60.596 of arabs describe their situation as good or make very good. it does not seem to match what you are saying. good or make very good. it does not seem to match what you are sayinglj did not agree with these results. at
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least people are saying believed the state is dealing with them as enemies not as equal citizens. why do you think thousands of arabs living injerusalem do you think thousands of arabs living in jerusalem — do you think thousands of arabs living injerusalem — they have a grey area status because an international law eastjerusalem grey area status because an international law east jerusalem is occupied territory but since the annexation by israel they are regarded as people with rights to residency and, indeed, the right to apply for citizenship in israel and thousands have indeed applied for citizenship. what does that tell you? we are talking about 300,000 palestinians in palestinians and you're talking about thousands. those palestinians in eastjerusalem are facing strangulation policy, deportation, revoking their identity
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card, sending them outjerusalem — thousands of them. it is to say that the education system in east jerusalem is one of the worst education systems conditions led by the israeli authorities. it is to say that those in jerusalem, palestinians, not all of them are free to get into a mosque. demolition orders in eastjerusalem but more also in other villages in arab villages, inside israeli, because of lack of planning and housing. do you know, stephen, there isa housing. do you know, stephen, there is a law for community villages law, for preventing me, as an israeli citizen, arab citizen, the living in many villages. i can live in manhattan and london but not in this. a year saying, using the words
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of that resolution from the un in 1975, are you saying that you still regarded as racism ? 1975, are you saying that you still regarded as racism? the practice of zionism daily is to say thatjews are superior to non— jews. zionism daily is to say thatjews are superior to non- jews. there was are superior to non- jews. there was a repeal, one of the only un resolutions to be repealed because ofa resolutions to be repealed because of a consensus across the world that that language was an except verbal and wrong. i am asking you whether you still use that phrase. many palestinians inside israel or outside the green line, of the times of zionism because of racism because of zionism because of racism because of many aspects against non— jews, or indigenous palestinians. this is important because right now there is a discussion both inside israel and outside the territories but also
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among palestinians and arab israelis about what is going to happen if the two state solution is dead and we have discussed donald trump and the current political situation and nobody would pretend that the two state solution looks alive right now so there is a unitary state solution and how and if there is one, do you believe it would be acceptable for the jewish israeli believe it would be acceptable for thejewish israeli population to be ina thejewish israeli population to be in a minority? there are more talk about the solution. you even posited the notion that you might run for prime
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minister of the unitarian strayed from the jordan river and minister of the unitarian strayed from thejordan river and he said it was able run—off between me and mr netanyahu, i was able run—off between me and mr neta nyahu, i would was able run—off between me and mr netanyahu, i would wind, no doubt about it. if this was the case, an equal right would be there between jews and arabs from the sea to the river. a palestinian would wind the post of the prime minister.|j river. a palestinian would wind the post of the prime minister. i asked you, can you countenance and you think it is in any way realistic to think it is in any way realistic to think that the jewish population of israel will ever accept a situation in which they are in a minority? under the resolution, as the homeland for the jews under the resolution, as the homeland for thejews after the second world war, you understand that. i believe better than most arabs because it made a very famous speech understanding the impact of the holocaust on thejewish people and on that creation of the state of israel. can you imagine a unitary state where the jewish israel. can you imagine a unitary state where thejewish population isn't a minority? i, as a victim, in
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that speech, can tell you that i realise that for the israelis, it is a nightmare to talk about equal democratic state. that is why, when you are giving two choices for them, two state solution or one state solution, there are immediately choosing the third choice, which is not there, the status quo. that is why i am staying two state solution is the ultimate solution that is supporting. but the condition is immediate ending of the occupation and israel is rearranging the occupation. but you don'tjust say that. it's a very inflammatory things. in an interview not so long ago, you allowed your imagination to run. you said, we will, if there is to bea run. you said, we will, if there is to be a unitary state, we will annul the declaration of independence from 1948. in its place, we will write a simple declaration that represents
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all citizens. he said it is untenable for a democratic state to have a declaration of independence thatis have a declaration of independence that is fundamentally jewish. have a declaration of independence that is fundamentallyjewish. you asked, what would the country's name they? you said, i don't know. its parliament will decide. what about the flag? you said, yes, that will have to change. when you say these things, how do you think they respond? when is daily -- is israelis are killing palestinians, how will we react? it is a democratic vision. i think any democratic vision. i think any democratic in the international community, should respect my vision of democracy. if there will not be as two state solution, yes, i want to be equal with israelijews. i wa nt to to be equal with israelijews. i want to be equal with anybody in tel aviv. nazareth. buti want to be equal with anybody in tel aviv. nazareth. but i will never accept aviv. nazareth. but i will never a cce pt to aviv. nazareth. but i will never accept to be inferior to any israeli jews just because the state is defining itself as a jewish state. because defining yourself as jewish
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and democratic is an oxymoron. this is an oxymoron that we are fighting against day by day. it seems to me your speech was based on empathy and a genuine effort to understand the israeli mindset. what aspect of the israeli mindset. what aspect of the israeli mindset. what aspect of the israeli mindset is that they see more than a decade ago when the palestinians had a free election that a majority at least in gaza voted quite clearly for harm us, a movement that is dedicated in its original constitution, the destruction of the state of israel —— hamas. destruction of the state of israel -- hamas. it is democracy. palestinian people, like in england and germany, and in france, like evenin and germany, and in france, like even in the united states, whojust elected a very bizarre president, weak, palestinians, are free to elect exactly what they want palestinians want. israelis are going to listen to this and your belief that the palestinians can
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choose hamas if they and still believe that there is any possible reason why they should listen to you talking about unitary state? they can listen to me talking about two state solution. they are not listening. no for that. and what is netanyahu listening. no for that. and what is neta nyahu proposing listening. no for that. and what is netanyahu proposing for israel is an palestinians? more and more confrontation, more friction, more bloodshed. i am confrontation, more friction, more bloodshed. iam proposing peace, i am proposing peace, freedom for palestinians and peaceful israelis and palestinians. it is challenging. it is. if you wanted to build some temperatures and build some confidence, there are certain things you could do. for a start, you could denounce your fellow arab—israeli ember of who is now in prison because he was smuggling telephones to palestinian prisoners. what did you make what he did, and how
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disappointed were you in him? the 13th mks of the joint list, all of us, were not using this way of struggle in order to act as parliamentarians. it is not the way. he said though. we, myself and others said so, and he is paying the price injail. why others said so, and he is paying the price in jail. why did you boycott the funeral? because i carried my condolences to this daughter... no, you didn't go to that general. what kind of signal are you selling —— sending to the israelis?” kind of signal are you selling —— sending to the israelis? i obliged to act exactly as the consensus, the israeli consensus is demanding from me? that is a historical problem. i can understand israelis when they
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cannot do something that hurt their feelings. please understand our feelings. please understand our feelings as national leaders.” wonder whether you paid heed to the words of the first arab—israeli to bea words of the first arab—israeli to be a supreme courtjustice, and that tell you something about the israeli system. he served in the supreme court, he was proud to do so, and to what time he was leaving, he said, yes, icomplain what time he was leaving, he said, yes, i complain a lot about the treatment of israelis, but i am also complaining a lot about us, the leaders of the community and we must ta ke leaders of the community and we must take responsibility for the problems. hasn't got a point there? you spend so much time grandstanding about the long—term prospect that a peaceful solution between arab, between palestinian and israeli, you don't spend much time trying to make a better life for your constituent. you were mistaken. 85% of the activity is focused on social and economic issues of our community,
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and there is misleading coverage of power at the tea. yes, we are responsible for the well—being of our community. we should be much more interested, focusing, of violence in our community, which is almost devastating. it is a scourge, particular violence against women inside arab community. we are taking pa rt inside arab community. we are taking part in every demonstration. who should emotion against that, who should emotion against that, who should emotion against that, who should emotion about using weapons and community events? myself. i guess, that is what the israelis, i can hear the voices in my head. and you are much freer to make those protests a nd you are much freer to make those protests and to demand better from the community inside israel that he would be if you are living in a village in the west bank or indeed a
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different arab country. in syria or libya. say it. you can say it. it is a racist. you know why? to tell me that because i am arab that i should move to syria as they are demanding day by day or i should compare myself to third world countries, none democratic, totalitarian regimes, israel is claiming it is democracy, the control group and the control state should be sweden, france, england, not libya, not syria, not third states, third world states in africa or south america. i wa nt to states in africa or south america. i want to be equal, exactly like citizens in tel aviv and i do not wa nt to citizens in tel aviv and i do not want to be compared with totalitarian regimes, but with democratic states will stop it is the test. can you accept the idea that an israeli citizen who is arab
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is willing to be equal? it is a good way to end this interview. ahmad tibi, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. hello again. it felt like we had two different seasons across the uk yesterday, north to south. across northern areas in scotland, we had heavy snow causing transport disruption again. and temperatures struggled to get much above freezing. further south, 11 degrees celsius and, indeed, we had some cloud breaks. and with the light winds around, it didn't feel too bad at all where the sunshine bothered breaking through. further north of scotland, though, it was another snow day, particularly over the high ground,
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and that snow again caused problems through those higher central belt motorways. now, looking at the weather picture at the moment, the last of the snow clearing away from the north highlands, but aside from that, we've got some clearer slots around. a colder start to the day with some frost patches around, a little bit of ice is a possibility first thing in the morning. certainly a chilly start to the day for most of us. a little area of low pressure moving in. there could be extensive rain across south—east england. slower to move away as well. that is a possibility. by the afternoon, the cloud should be breaking up. north and west, a few showers, wintry over the higher ground but not causing problems. a few showers later in the day, but for many areas, cloud will break at times to give some sunny spells. temperatures coming up in scotland. highs of 6 in edinburgh and aberdeen.
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further south, temperatures just about reaching double figures in the afternoon brightness. you might remember thursday was going to be a dry day, but there has been a big jump in the weather forecast, and now we band of rain and perhaps some hill snow. but that is uncertainty to let the moment. —— but that is uncertain detail at the moment. there will be some further wintry showers coming in across the north—west and temperatures ranging from 6 to 10 degrees, many areas breaking up as we go through the afternoon. north—westerly breeze for many areas after a cold start through the day, we should see some sunny spells coming through. a band of rain approaches here and clouding over in london as well. highs of 11 or so. looking ahead to the weekend, this area of low pressure will push a band of rain northwards and the cold air is still there, so we could see a spell of snow
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over some of the higher hills, the northern pennines and perhaps into parts of scotland as well. it will turn milder all the while. that is your weather. welcome to newsday, on the bbc. i'm mariko oi, in singapore. the headlines: donald trump's top economic aide resigns in protest at the president's threatened trade wars. the us gives a cautious response to news that north korea is open i'm kasia madeira in london. also in the programme: military experts in britain are testing the substance that's thought to have made a former russian spy and his daughter critically ill. and swimming in the plastic ocean — we'll speak to the diver who took these amazing pictures. live from our studios in singapore and london,
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