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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  March 12, 2018 11:15pm-12:00am GMT

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ken dodd — one of our last links to the world of music hall. an era really has come to an end. remembering sir ken dodd who has died at the age of 90. that's a summary of the news. now on bbc news, it's time for newsnight. tonight, the pm lays down the gauntlet to the kremlin. we will consider in detail the response from the russian state. should there be no credible response, we will conclude this action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the russian state against the united kingdom. the salisbury nerve gas attack is escalating into a full blown crisis, with britain asking its allies for back up. we'll hear how russia is likely to react. authoritarianism is on the rise in poland and it's spooking the eu. europe threatens to remove warsaw's voting rights, while the poles resent brussels' high handedness. i will be recommending a short,
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independent—led inquiry looking into allegations of bullying by staff. newsnight‘s bullying of parliamentary staff provokes action from the leader of the house. but does her promise satisfy the mp who brought the issue to the commons today? and steve smith recalls the moment ken dodd revealed his love of newsnight. why did you decide to talk to us? i thought it was about time you had a bit of encouragement. good evening, so what happens now?
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moscow has been given 2a hours by the uk government to explain what happened in the salisbury chemical attack. the foreign office has summoned the russian ambassador to explain whether the poisoning of sergei skripal and his daughter was a direct action by the russian state or the result of that government losing control of its stock of nerve agents. this afternoon in the commons, the prime minister stated that the chemical used was a weapons grade state—produced substance from russia's novichok programme and said if no credible response was forthcoming from russia by the end of tomorrow britain would conclude the action amounted to a use of force on british territory. so, after firm words from the pm the ball is now in russia's court. what happens next? let's ask mark urban our diplomatic editor, who's been on this from the beginning. talk us through what we know of the nerve agent or the programme, novichok, mentioned for the first time today. at the risk of sounding like a pedant it is pronounced novichok. it defines things in quite a few
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ways, but it is still quite a broad category. there are something like 100 different agents that are contained within that programme. firstly, let's talk about what it now makes clear. for a few days they did not know what they were dealing with. the novichok agents were designed not to be detectable by standard nato chemical agent detectors. that would explain a lot of things including why those warnings to people at salisbury did not come for a few days, because they had not detected it for the first few days and that also conditioned the treatment that was given to sergei skripal and his daughter. they were treated for nerve agent poisoning relatively quickly, but they did not know what they were dealing with. the normal ones like sarin are detectable. secondly, it may add some insight into why this may have happened earlier than many people think. the table was found to be contaminated in a restaurant and it could easily have been a few hours before the pair were
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finally seriously ill. various theories, could it have been a liquid put on their food? that has already been touted. other people are looking at one of the other novichok agents which is a powder. it could have been in the ventilation system or in the car, so when it started it blew into the car and it was contained within that shell. they parked and then they went to the restaurant and they were shedding contamination there and in the pub before they fell ill. all of these things have been defined and now increasingly it will define the politics, including the drama today in the commons. we know we are in a diplomatic stand—off. the russians have been given 2a hours to provide an explanation of how one of the nerve agents ended up on british streets. an ultimatum after an act of apparently shocking recklessness. it is not a new strategy for russia for the breadcrumbs so to speak to lead back to the kremlin. part of this is revenge, but the bigger part is really about delivering a message to russians inside russia, to putin's own electorate in advance of the elections. and his security services who are enabling him to remain in power.
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as investigators took samples late last week, the diagnosis of britain's chemical warfare community became clearer. nerve agent, part a family nicknamed novichok in the old soviet union, highly potent and very hard to detect. the prime minister today called out russia. on wednesday we will consider in detail the response from the russian state. should there be no credible response, we will conclude this action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the russian state against the united kingdom. and i will come back to this house and set out the full range of measures that we will take in response. mr speaker, this attempted murder using weapons grade nerve agent in a british town was notjust crime against sergei skripal and his daughter. it was an indiscriminate and reckless act against the uk, putting the lives of innocent civilians at risk.
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what of russia's response? steve rosenberg caught up with vladimir putin electioneering. is russia behind the poisoning of sergei skripal. get to the bottom of things there and then we will discuss it came the reply. novichok is a family of about 100 nerve agents developed as the soviet union was on its last legs. the chemical principles are well understood, but the processes in constituent chemicals create a highly signature. it is possible to determine the exact structure of the molecule. because of that it is possible to determine which pre—cursors were used in the manufacture of that agent. it is possible because of the knowledge about the precursor is to reconstruct the method of synthesis and these are tell—tale signs like fingerprints.
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as the clock ticks away on theresa may's ultimatum to the russians, the wires will be burning between the foreign office and allied ministries across europe and of course the state department in the united states. what the uk will be trying to find out is how much support there is, whether solidarity in backing britain in its calls for sanctions against russia extends beyond the rhetorical. the prime minister did leave one possible route out for the kremlin, alluding to the possibility that novichok, a banned weapon in any case, might have been used without government authorisation. it could be that it was stolen or sold at an earlier date to another entity. in which case the question is what is happening? why did that happen? what is the security here? how could this have been allowed to happen? that is a very different set of questions.
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but if russia continues to deny everything, britain will likely by wednesday afternoon be asking its allies to endure the pain of applying new sanctions. this is a threat that suddenly came to fruition in the uk. it does not mean it would not happen in other western countries and together we need to take action, whether it comes in the form of declaring russian officials persona non grata in the uk, or sanctions against specific russians. there is a cost we will pay, but if we do not face the cost now, we may pay more in the future. this is developing into a fully fledged diplomatic crisis and britain soon could be putting forward a whole new raft of measures against russia. and what response from the russians tonight? putin brushed off the question saying the british need to get to the bottom of it first. the foreign ministry called it a circus show. joining me now, amy knight,
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a world expert on the kgb, and sir tony brenton, british ambassador to moscow until 2008. nice to have you here. i will start with you, amy. theresa may laid out those two options. the russian state or a rogue perpetrated that has borrowed the agent. what do you sense that this is? i think the kremlin will undoubtedly not admit it is the russian state that committed this act. but i think the likelihood that rogue elements got a hold of this nerve gas and were able to transport it or bring all the pre—cursors and make this, i think it is highly unlikely. the fsb is the agency that is in charge of these sophisticated laboratories that do this and it is really unlikely that this would have happened. mark was espousing some of the theories of what might have
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happened on that day. do you think this went according to plan or did something go wrong? you know, i was surprised by the fact that this substance was actually allowed to damage other people and put people in hospital. even sergei skripal‘s daughter. but if you look back at the alexander litvinenko poisoning, that was also handled very carelessly. we know that the two gentleman work hired by the fsb to poison alexander litvinenko. i was surprised at the lack of professionalism if you will, but presumably this can happen. but you still think that putin's fingerprints are ultimately on this or you think it might have been people acting, believing it was what he would have required? that is not the way things operate. i have heard this theory before in regard to other
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crimes and so forth. this kind of action would not have been taken without the explicit approval of vladimir putin. of course there will never be a smoking gun because that is not the way things work. he willjust continue to deny and denied. i am sure they will say that they will investigate it and tried to get to the bottom of things, but as you know, vladimir putin and his very close colleagues control all of the investigative organs. so there is no possibility of russia having any kind of an independent investigation of the circumstances of this poisoning. let me pick up on that point. what does russia do now? if you were in that foreign office meeting tomorrow, would you expect
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the russian ambassador to turn up? what would you expect him to say? i'm sure he will turn up and what he will say is we did not do it and we do not believe anybody from our side did it either. it is clear we will get a negative response the russians. and again the question has been put to them in that way. has theresa may taken a gamble or has she played a blinder? does russia care? i they spooked by this at all? i do not think she has taken a gamble, she is responding entirely properly to an outrageous attack
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on the uk. do the russians care? that depends on how we now respond. we have got a range of sanctions at our disposal. we can make life uncomfortable for russian intelligence agencies working in the uk. we can hit russian money in the city. but the crucial question is how much support we can get from our allies. 0ur action by itself will do some damage. but if the west acts in a more united way, that will have much more impact. we are pretty much alone at the moment. from the looks of it we have not got
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trapped coming to our aid. we have not got the eu necessarily rallying round at this point, how are we, have we? around the alexander litvinenko affair, the lack of support was disappointing. the europeans in particular were not over and beyond rhetoric. the position has changed a lot. all of the west is much more at loggerheads with the russians than we were in 2006, so there is more scope for persuading our western partners. this has happened on our streets today, it will be on your streets tomorrow. but a lot comes down to the skill and professionalism and persuasiveness of the british diplomats and ministers over the next few days. do you think donald trump will have to start taking this seriously? will he have to come out against the russians if this is where it leads? you know i think it is interesting that timing of this incident. not only did it occurred two weeks before the russian presidential election, but also it occurred at a time when the tram administration is totally caught up in scandals. so i think first of all the tram administration is very distracted, so they are not likely to be able to react as well as they might if things were going smoothly in the white house.
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secondly, we know donald trump has bent over backwards to apologise for everything that vladimir putin has done. he has gone on record as saying that he does not believe vladimir putin ever commits any kind of political killings. i think it is unlikely that we are going to get any initiative from donald trump. that said, there are people in the white house and in the congress who have been very proactive when it comes to this kind of thing. so we might see something from them. but i hesitate to say that it is going to be as strong as it might be if we had an administration that was much more realistic about russia. thank you very much. the leader of the house of commons has ordered an independent inquiry
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into allegations of bullying of staff by mps after an investigation by this programme. in one of the more uncomfortable sessions for the house, the speakerjohn bercow, one of those mps named in our investigation, presided over today's proceedings. andrea leadsom said the reports of bullying were of "huge concern" and that a short inquiry would assess whether current procedures to protect people who work for the commons were fit for purpose. ms leadsom chose not to address a question on mr bercow‘s own future but insisted bullying must be stamped out wherever it is seen. chris cook and his producer lucinda day broke the story for newsnight. last week, newsnight revealed a problem in westminster, an issue with the so—called clarks, the apolitical class who make the place tick, who say they serve bullying from mps and they say they don't trust management processes to protect them. in large part because, in serious cases, mps can be involved injudging one another. management have told us to report stuff, but if i said something, i would be moved. in all my time here, i haven't seen one case go against them. the response from the commons authorities is pretty dismissive. for example, we told you how a serving clerk told us how she lived in a culture of fear.
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the authority said that was a grotesque exaggeration. today, though, we reported on a new development. this morning we got hold of a letter from the clerk of the house of commons, completely changing his position. the letter was sent out to the house of commons clerks. the senior management of the house are acknowledging they got the tone of their response to newsnight‘s reporting wrong, they acknowledge there is a problem with bullying and harassment in the house of commons and that the policy in place to deal with it is inadequate and needs to be looked at again. the letter was seen as a step
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forwards, but we gathered testimony revealing continued concerns among serving clerks. the people who have that power are the mps. they met today to discuss our report. we revealed last week that john bercow is accused of bullying. he denies it and he chaired today's session. the house commission next meets on monday the 19th of march, next monday and i have given notice to my fellow members that i will be recommending a short, independently led inquiry by the house commission looking into allegations of systemic bullying of parliamentary staff. i wilol propose that the enquiry should hearfrom current and past staff members about their experiences and help to provide them with closure wherever possible. it's unclear whether this enquiry will name troublesome mps orjust discuss the culture. that's for the house of commons commission to discuss next week. a panel chaired byjohn bercow.
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some mps today were concerned about overreaction. here's paul farrelly who denied allegations of bullying last week. before members jump to judgement on what was a very selective broadcast, approaching the cases that have been raised in a more balanced way. a consensus has emerged that something must be done and the enquiry should help decide what. clerks won't be left out of efforts to reform westminster, but one thing is clear — any system where mps and still make decisions on sanctioning mps will not have the support of staff. that was chris cook. i am joined now by the mp caroline lucas, co—leader of the green party. and the mp who tabled the urgent question leading to andrea leadsom's statement. did it go the way you hoped? there was a change of tone, which was welcome. we had a change from criticising the complaints as exaggerated.
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that was positive. we had acknowledgement that the new procedures will be expanded to include all staff very shortly, which is good, but where it still fell short is the lack of real grappling with the fact that the whole process from start to finish has to be independent. so this new enquiry that andrea leadsom just mentioned is supposed to be undertaken by the house of commons commission, in other words, another set of mps. and if this whole saga has told us anything, it is that you cannot have mps judging other mps. it doesn't work, it doesn't breed confidence. so in the new procedure and the old one we have to look at, we have to get rid of any sense that this is mps marking their own homework. did you feel today that there was the appetite to actually recognise that and change it? not to the degree that i'd have liked. some mps get it across the house, some mps do.
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but the fact that the leader of the house can be proposing another process that is not independent, the commission looking at cases, i think, indicates a lack of understanding. we cannot have mstudging, making those key decisions on their fellow mps. that is mirrored by the situation today, which wasjohn bercow presiding over and calling on you to make the urgent question. is that the sticking point, that actually, while you've got the judge and juror in the same place, you can't get to the bottom of it? the position ofjohn bercow today was slightly different in the sense that we weren't talking about live complaints that are current under existing guidelines being discussed. this was about a structure, a systemic issue and to be fair to him, he's been very good at calling urgent questions. does he need to say something publicly about the allegations about himself? i think it would clear the air if he did, but on the other hand, there has to be an investigation,
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and at the moment we've only had allegations from one side which have been refuted. we need an investigation. but it cannot and must not be an investigation undertaken by mps. that can have absolutely no credibility with the staff. do you think there is a need or an appetite to get to the bottom of this, or whether there is a bit of politicking going on, particularly concerning the speaker'sjob, as he has made a lot of enemies in thejob. some people are using this for their own political ends. you had james diedrich getting up to criticisejohn bercow for deciding over the proceedings today, that mp has no love forjohn bercow, for many years. so, yes, people are using this to settle scores and that's disappointing to see, because what's at stake is the well—being of staff who work very long hours, every day for mps, so we have to tackle the underlying culture of privilege allowing mps to think that they can act in ways
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that would not be accessible in any other workplace. parliament should be the beacon of best practice rather than constantly running to keep up. thank you forjoining us. when it comes to picking fights with the eu, britain is not alone. poland is now in the dock. its popularist right—wing government stands accused of threatening the independence of the judiciary by greatly increasing its control of the courts. this has led the european commission to trigger an unprecedented article 7 proceeding against warsaw. if poland fails to back down by next tuesday, that's march 20th, it could ultimately lose its eu voting rights. there are also widespread concerns that the authoritarian policies of the ruling law and justice party are threatening liberal democracy by attacking the media, curbing civil rights and encouraging cultural and religious intolerance. mike thomson's been to warsaw to find out more about poland's creeping authoritarianism. we should get back to our tradition. we do not need to
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learn from the west. this is against the mainstream, against the elite. it's the right direction. we are very much afraid. we are closing our society, just to our nation, and that's not good. the world is multinational. ever since russian forces left 25 years ago, poland has faced an identity crisis. what does it mean to be polish? at first, the euro way was the only way. but now, a new nationalism is sweeping the nation. in power since 2015, the right—wing law and justice party has tapped into dissatisfaction with liberal, western values. emphasising a traditional idea of polishness, which promises
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to give people back their pride, culture and self—belief. but many here fear that what they regard as the authoritarian political party behind all this is hijacking the government, by subverting the judiciary, muzzling the media and curbing civil rights. i'm here to investigate whether such claims are justified and if we are really seeing the beginning of the end of liberal democracy in poland. this is 0strow mazowiecka, a law and justice stronghold. like many parts of rural east poland, people have long felt neglected by liberal politicians and the urban elite. here at this windswept paving stone factory on the edge of town, there is resentment about the way foreign eu leaders are criticising the party they support. this man has worked at the plant for more than 25 years. the town's mayor insists people here have long been ignored and talked down to.
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he says his party are giving them back their dignity. pride, both personal and national, isn't the only thing being given to people here. new welfare payments for anyone with children is yet another very popular policy. 27—year—old monika, struggling to raise three children in her tiny flat, has long felt let down by politicians. but not anymore. which party do you think you'll give your vote to in the next election? this gathering in the capital of older urbanites looks a world away from those in 0strow mazowiecka. but appearances can be deceiving. here at this right—wing club in central warsaw, liberalism is under attack.
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over the last hour or so, we've been hearing all about concerns over the pope's policies towards gay marriage and divorce, but it goes much deeper than that. people here have big issues with the whole subject of western democracy itself. we were robbed, we have debts. most of the rules were very poor, very bad. we were servants, servants to the western capitalists coming to poland from 1989. injan's view, the majority of poles have seen few real benefits since the fall of communism. who regained freedom, i'm asking? who? was communists, their friends, their families, their supporters, that's it. 0ne—third is for the rest of the people. you should know it in the west. very simple.
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we should really pursue our own way and our own tradition. of course it's very difficult, but there is a good saying, can you count? if you can, count on yourself. but if poland carries on down this path, the biggest beneficiary of eu grants can't count on the support of the eu. brussels has condemned its move to take over the appointment and disciplining of judges and to make them retire earlier. but the party's vice—president in the european parliament sees this as unwarranted interference. mainly, when i'm talking with my colleagues in the european parliament i always say, ok, you are criticising poland. look at your country. i cannot accept situation when the people from the other countries, which are not informed about the situation,
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do not speak polish, do not visit poland, they compare the situation of poland to russia, turkey, two different undemocratic countries. some believe the government is playing an poland's many reminders of invasion, to blame foreigners for their woes. this government needs enemies, you know, they are in desperate search for enemies. each and every month they invent a new enemy. the european union is one. germany is number one. it is a very successful mechanism for attracting people and the name of the game again, with this electorate, as i described it, is a kind of simplicity. they're proud of being polish, there is this megalomaniac history that is being proposed, offered anew, which is not necessarily is a real history.
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civil rights groups have come to fear that they're on this list too. through these doors is the offices of a women's rights charity. just a few months ago, police went through here, up the stairs and raided the office, taking with them dozens of confidentialfiles, none of which have yet been returned. of course it was very shocking for us and very scared, especially when it was a day when we had clients in our offices. when the police came they took not only all the financial documents but also the documents concerning very sensitive data of our clients. sometimes we think how big an impact it had not only on us, on our situation, the trust of our clients, how safe they feel.
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she suspects that her organisation's biggest crime is championing women's rights rather than the kind of traditionalfamily values espoused by the polish prime minister. so, how is this all being allowed to happen? neither will campaigns backed by this judge to keep poland's judiciary independent. —— but why is the government is so intent on eroding this? law and justice have insisted that
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all they're doing is redressing the long—standing liberal bias in the country. but is it not really a naked power grab? this was in your questions about fundamental rights, civil rights. i can assure you, they are not in danger, in this country. professor makovski believes things cannot go on the way they are indefinitely. one of the things that we have to emphasise about the poland of today is that we have
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a constituational crisis. we have a separation of powers that is nonexistent here, the rule of law has been violated on many occasions by the president and by this party. this is a violation of the existing binding constitution and we are asking ourselves, when will it be that these people will face the state tribunal? because this is the obvious thing. i think it will happen sooner or later. poland's radical policies are flying high for now, kept aloft by populist answers to the nation's identity crisis and the woes of its marginalised rural poor. but gathering storm clouds may yet force warsaw to change course, as the battle with brussels nears. mike thomson reporting. we did ask the polish government for an interview but no one was available. ken dodd used to say that he loved to watch newsnight last thing at night. "it's saved me a fortune on milky drinks." he might have stayed up
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for this one though, a tribute to a comedian who was called many things, perhaps the nicest of which was simply "life affirming". ken dodd was was the son of a coalman. he never left the home in knotty ash, liverpool, where he grew up and indeed died there aged 90 this weekend. stephen smith looks back on the work of one of britain's greats. the one and only ken dodd! tonight, ladies and gentlemen, i feel absolutely tattyfilarious and full of plumptiousness. what he had in spades was that very peculiarly british quality of total daftness. it makes me absolutely disconficurated to see that so many of you have turned up for the free soup. he hung out with the beatles and they shared jokes about hair. lovely hair. we call it "herr" in liverpool. we sayjudy with the "ferr herr". only the fab four themselves had
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bigger hits in the 60s. ken dodd even held the record for the longest run at the london palladium. 42 weeks. to go to one of his gigs wasn't only a kind of beautiful experience of stockholm syndrome, as he kept you inside that theatre until you submitted to his humour, but it was also to hearjokes that might have been in circulation for centuries. newsnight spoke to ken dodd in his hometown a few years back. if you want to enjoy life, its optimism. i always go on the stage and say, byjove, what a beautiful day. what a beautiful day for doing this and that, what a day for ramming a cucumber through the vicar‘s letterbox and saying, look out, the martians are coming. what a beautiful day for bouncing
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up and down in a big barrel of blancmange. what a beautiful day for rushing onto the roland rat show and shouting "mousetrap!" you sing thejokes, which works to emphasise. willie works in the docks in liverpool and he's what they call a diesel fitter, he goes round looking in the cases saying "these'll fit her", "these'll fit her". i worked for my father in a coal business with my brother and then i was on the knocker, as you say, going around selling pots and pans and tickling sticks. selling things like this, saying ooh, missus and all of that is a kind of patter, a kind of pitch that's directed at a working—class audience. here's a suggestion from mrs nellie dean who writes, i think it's high time that ken dodd got knighted. well, mrs dean, i'd like to thank you very much for your kind letter. just a minute, that says naughty, not knighted. class may have held ken dodd back, he wasn't knighted until 2016. he also faced trial over an alleged tax fraud before being acquitted. # tears have been my only consolation #. many admired his singing voice which brought him several hit records and directors
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cast ken dodd in straight acting roles or straight—ish. but you've won the grand prize. well, what is it? i've never won anything before. your prize... hang about. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome mr ken dodd. even his greatest admirers admit it was the theatre, not telly where ken dodd really shone. ken was addicted to a live audience, to real people sitting in rows of seats. in a sense, the camera got in the way and he never mastered the camera like frankie howard did or bruce did or eric and ernie. a live theatre, it's a one to one experience, there's not all this scrap iron in the way! is there ever a moment... don't you dare say that word! no, no, no.
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people retire, men retire when they stop doing what they don't want to do and start doing what they do want to do. now i happen to know that you'd rather have an allotment and raise chickens than be a journalist. geronimo! # happiness to me is an ocean tide, a sunset fading on a mountainside. i watched your programme, it is a barrel of laughs. you have some very, very funny people. # happiness, happiness # that's all we have time for. evan's here tomorrow. till then, goodnight. .it . it was not a particularly grey day across england and wales, was at? it was cloudy. there were outbreaks of
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rain as you can see from that weather watcher picture. but the low pressure that brought the cloud and rain is easing away. actually, that reach of high pressure is building, which means a quieter day in store for tomorrow. it will be a chilly start for tomorrow morning, so if you are off early, low single figures, or a touch of frost in sheltered lens. the further west you are, the better will be. northern ireland, scotland, wales, and england singsin sunshine come through. the cloud will break and some brighter spells will come into the afternoon. a brighter day for all of us. perhaps the better of the drier, brighter days in the week has seven of a high. this deep area of low pressure will move in from the atla ntic low pressure will move in from the atlantic and stay anchored to the west of the uk for a few days. it tries in milder air. that is the good news. unfortunately, circulating around that low, we will
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at times see some rain. it does look on wednesday central and eastern areas will see the best of the drier slots. if you have the sunshine, without southerly breeze, it is driving in milderair. without southerly breeze, it is driving in milder air. temperatures will respond. a pleasant springlike feel in the sunshine, up to as high as 15 degrees. the winds will be fairly wea k as 15 degrees. the winds will be fairly weak in the west. some rain into wales and south—west england. but for the bulk of the country, predominantly dry and relatively mild. highs of 7— 1a. predominantly dry and relatively mild. highs of 7— 111.1 predominantly dry and relatively mild. highs of 7— 1a. i hope you go out and make the most of it. you get the sunshine, it will feel pleasant. highs of 15 degrees. however, things will change as we move into the weekend, which averages dramatically tumbling once again. it will feel bitterly cold. 0nce tumbling once again. it will feel bitterly cold. once again, that easterly wind will return. perhaps those extreme as it was, but with
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high pressure building again, from scandinavia, the winds will swing around without high, and it will be around without high, and it will be a cold sauce. so things will turn quite wintry. —— source. they cool filter things and some sleet and snow potential on the coast. —— filtering in. i'm sharanjit leyl in london. the headlines — pointing the finger at moscow as britain's prime minister says a nerve agent was used to poison a former russian spy and his daughter. this attempted murder using a weapons grade nerve agent in a british town was notjust a crime against the skripals. it was a reckless act
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against the united kingdom. a question from the bbc‘s correspondent in russia gets the brush—off from president putin as moscow accuses the british government of making up fairytales. i'm rico hizon in singapore. also in the programme — with tight sanctions on north korea, we ask how this shop in pyongyang obtained its luxury goods.
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