the founder of facebook has admitted the giant social network "made mista kes" over the cambridge analytica data scandal. it follows allegations that millions of users' private information was misused by the political consultancy firm. mark zuckerberg also pledged a series of changes, making it harder for apps to harvest user information. police in texas have named the suspect they say carried out a spate of deadly parcel bombs as mark anthony conditt. he was killed after detonating an explosive device as officers pursued him. and this is trending on bbc.com. lawmakers in kosovo had to be evacuated from parliament after opposition politicians threw tear gas. it's not even the first time they've used tear gas in parliament to stop a vote. that's certainly got lots of people talking. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk.

i'm stephen sackur. more than 150 journalists are currently imprisoned in turkey. president erdogan‘s government stands accused of an all—out assault on freedom of expression. my guest today is can dundar, former editor of the turkish cumhuriyet, who has experienced imprisonment, life—threatening violence and exile in the last couple of years, after publishing material which infuriated the turkish president. in the battle for turkey's future and its soul, who's winning? theme music plays. can dundar, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you. you live in germany, you would like to live in turkey but it's not possible. do you feel a sense of freedom in germany that you could not enjoy in your last period inside turkey? you can't really feel as a free man while your friends are in jail, yourfamily is under — you know, away from you, and, at the same time, you are threatened by a very despotic government. if you are seen as a threat by the government, you can't be free, feel free, everywhere in the world, nowhere in the world. do you have security right now? because of course, part of your story over the last couple

of years is notjust arrest and imprisonment but also there was an attempt on your life. do you feel secure in germany? not really. because turkish intelligence is so active in germany and there are a lot of pro—government people, pro—erdogan people, living in germany, and that's why there is a huge campaign against me by the turkish government, that's why it's a kind of... ..um, it's not the safest place in the world, germany... do you have security? yeah, i do have security. if i do something in public, they come and protect me. i suppose your story is very much about your relationship with president erdogan. and i am interested to go back in time to the early 2000s, when you described yourself as "cautiously optimistic" about him. you said that "here is a man who stands up to the military". do you think, in retrospect, that you totally misunderstood the man? i guess he was pretending like he was a democrat all those

years and he had a plan from the beginning, and he convinced many of the turkish liberals, together with western governments, that he's a democrat and he's trying to get the turkish army back to the barracks again, and we were also critical about the turkish army being so involved in turkish politics, that's why someone who was promising to get the army back to the barracks was, you know, we should give him a chance, but we knew that he was not a democrat because he said already during his... as as a governor of istanbul in — back to 1996, he said democracy is not my main aim, it's just a tool.

let's get to the unfolding of events in more recent times. you knew that, as the century proceeded, as we got to 2010, 2012, that erdogan was showing a much more authoritarian streak in his rule. but, you took some rash decisions. imean, for example, when you became editor in chief of cumhuriyet, you must have known that breaking this story in 2015 about the turkish government smuggling arms over the border to rebels in syria, you must have known that running that story would put an enormous strain, to say the least, on your relationship with the government? of course, we knew it. in a way, we were expecting it. because as a journalist, of course, you must be realistic about this but what would you do? i mean, you have a story, which is true, your government

is doing something illegal and hiding itand naming it as a state secret and you are a journalist, this is your duty... well, it was a state secret, clearly it was a state secret, it was a covert operation, nobody was supposed to know about it. that is the point of covert operations. it was turkey's irangate. so in a way, it was not a state secret, it was the secret of mr erdogan. so, he was trying to get involved in the syrian war in an illegal way. well, but put yourself in the shoes of a journalist in a different country. i mean, frankly, if a british journalist had tried to dig deep into the affairs of military intelligence in the uk, or the same thing in the united states, they would have run into serious trouble. we have something called the official secrets act. have you seen the film, the post? i have seen the film, the post, which concerns vietnam and the uncovering of the pentagon papers. yes, exactly. so they were right to publish the story, and it's more or less the same story with us,

with a very different ending, unfortunately. but, i mean, this is our duty to inform the public about this kind of danger. well, yes, but presumably as a turk, you also have an obligation and a duty to consider things like putting turkish military personnel or others at risk, and you do know that the turkish government insisted that what you had uncovered was not gunrunning to rebels, but was actually the transfer of aid and assistance to turkmen civilians. that's what mr erdogan said. that's what they said, but the turkmen denied this allegation. they said they did not get any armoury from this and we knew that turkey had a very close contact with the islamic guerrillas in syria and we were opposing it, you know. so that's why it was important. but looking back, knowing what you know about what's happened to you, do you have any regret? not at all. none at all? i would do exactly the same thing again.

but, again, to be fair to the turkish government, you went through due process. erdogan, we know, was furious with you. he described what you did as "espionage" and said, "those who wrote that will be punished" but he did not do it himself. he filed a complaint and the courts took it up and you were tried in a court of law. exactly and, unfortunately, the courts are all controlled by himself... you know, nowadays. that's your opinion. yeah, i mean, so he ordered a kind of complaint, or he defined me as a traitor or a spy, nojudge can, you know, decide the other way. you spent 92 days in prison in the course of the legal process, before the actual conviction. what were those 92 days like? i was in solitary confinement. so... in a way i was ready, because if you are a journalist

in turkey, you must be ready for any kind of insults, imprisonment, harassment, even being killed, so psychologically, i felt ready. immediately i start working and writing, and tried to give a voice to the world that something is going on in the country. see that's what strikes me about turkey, it's complex to make sense of the nature of the authoritarianism that we talk about in turkey because there you sit in prison, erdogan has declared you an enemy of the state, and yet you're free to write, you're free to express your opinion, you can get that opinion to the outside world. i mean, this isn't exactly north korea, is it? with our government, it was difficult, it was not easy to do it. you know... you are taking some risks to do it. of course, i mean,

you are not allowed to write, in a way, but you must be brave enough to do it. you can do everything in turkey, but the price is high. if you are ready to pay the price, you are free to do it. you are free to write, you are free to talk, but the price is really high so you can spend your whole life injail. well, that is a very interesting way of putting it, the price is very high. in the end, you chose to avoid paying some of that inevitable price by, when you were released on appeal, you fled. you were invited to germany to receive a journalistic prize and you decided not to go back. well, not — partly true because after i was released i spent five months in turkey, i got back to myjob again, but it was summer time and i went to holidays to spain, in fact — i was in spain. then this military coup attempt has happened in turkey, then the rule of law was lifted.

and my lawyers advised me to stay away from the country for a while, and that's why i decided to stay in germany. was it partly out of fear, because i referred earlier to the attempt on your life? a gunman approached you outside the court one day and, miraculously, you survived, even though he tried to shoot you at very close range. but, was it fear that drove you out of turkey in the end? of course, i mean, otherwise... yeah, being injail doesn't matter, you can stay injail for a while but if your life is in danger, of course you should think twice. it wasn't the turkish state though, was it? imean... there has been a legal proceeding against the gunman and there's no connection, it seems, between him and the turkish state. he said... he said he was inspired by the accusations of this statesman and he is free now, with his passport in his pocket. that clearly is a bitter thing for you to swallow. oh, yeah. of course, and my wife

hasn't got a passport but he has, so... you talk about your wife, dilek, she is in turkey, she is not free to travel. she's been stopped from visiting you in germany. yeah, she was stopped in the airport and taken hostage, really, i mean without any accusation. there is no accusation against her. no investigation, and she's done nothing other than marry me... and... how hard is that, because you have no prospect of going home, she has no prospect of leaving turkey? this is the price i'm talking about. so this is part of the deal, and he loves taking hostages and he tries to punish me by, you know, keeping the family away from each other. do you... this is a strange word to use but do you feel a sense of guilt about your situation because you are now in germany, you're here in the uk, a play is being produced about some of your experiences, you know, you're something of a well—known figure now in the western media, and yet your wife is stuck in turkey but more than that,

many of your colleagues on the cumhuriyet newspaper are facing more legal proceedings. many of them, i think 16 of them, have been in prison since you got out of the country. there are 150 journalists in all currently in prison, thousands have lost theirjobs — do you feel awkward about being outside of turkey? yeah, partly so because, of course, if i was in turkey, i would be injail or in the cemetery, so... but i'm not silent, i'm not silent, so i am still struggling for something. i'm still writing and talking about my country and defending our freedom, our democracy, so i really believe in the future, so... in turkey, i wouldn't be so vocal, but now i have the opportunity to talk to people in the world about turkey. yes, we interviewed mr erdogan last year on hardtalk. this is what he said

about the accusation that he has repressed freedom of expression systematically in his country. he said, "no one is jailed because of journalism. right now in turkey, there are many opposition journalists who write a lot of things, all kinds of articles, all kinds of insults, and they are still out there and those who are in jail, well, they are criminals. they have no title as journalists." yeah, exactly. so i've been working as a journalist for more than 35 years now and convicted as a terrorist. so there are a lot ofjournalists like me, so in his eyes, if you are criticising the government, you are a terrorist. that is he doesn't accept, he doesn't accept that there arejournalists injail

because in his eyes they are not journalists but they are journalists. they are my friends and my colleagues and they have done nothing but write and criticise the government. explain to me how mr erdogan is still, according to the opinion polls, by far the most popular politician in turkey. explain to me how it looks as though he can expect to be in power because of that popularity until, perhaps, 2029. the man dominates turkey despite all the things you say about him, he is the man. imagine if you could dominate every facet of your country. every kind of criticism is banned. you are not

allowed to make a demonstration about the government, against the government. it must be so easy to run such a country. but is there not also a question about you and your colleagues in the secular liberal progressive media? isn't there a question that says, for all of your bravery and courage, and i do not belittle that in any way, you appear to be out of touch with many of your countrymen and women. i mean, the question should be the other way around, how come, under these circumstances, half of these people are still resisting him in such a country under these circumstances? really, i mean, it's very surprising for us to see 50% of the people voted against him in the last referendum. it is bravery. whatabout, umm, fethullah gulen and the idea... again, the turkish state is clear about this.

..the idea that gulen and his networks have, and we saw it manifested in the idea he was behind the coup of 2015, gulen and his networks are trying to erode turkish democracy and erdogan is making a stand ofr the institutions of the state against a movement which wants to corrupt those institutions. i guess this is one of the issues that i agree with him. are you a gulenist? oh, yeah, no, iam nota gulenist, i agree with erdogan. no, yeah, i know, but there are people, including the turkish foreign minister, who suggested that cumhuriyet is full of gulenists. yeah, that's the point. in fact, if someone is a gulenist in turkey, number one is erdogan. so, president erdogan, hand in hand with gulen, together, they run the country, for years, and gulen was in charge of the bureaucracy, universities, media, and the university system, and erdogan was in charge of the money. we work reciting both of them. and now erdogan has realised gulen is not the right guy

to partner with. he has to do something. to quote the turkish foreign minister a few days ago, he said "we are going through a necessary phase to make sure gulenist members, including sleeper cells, are removed from all positions of power in the media, business, and academia." "it is a painful process," he said, "but we act within the law." hah, "within the law." yeah, they inserted them into the state machinery. and they made it. and now the creation attacks the creator. you know, it's a frankenstein story. and now they are accusing us of being gulenists.

everyone opposing the government nowadays is branded a gulenist. that's the thing. i have nothing to do with them. the outside world looks at this and sometimes they are confused about what is happening in turkey. would you say you have been gravely disappointed with the reaction of the european union, for example, in recent months, in terms of what you want to see, isolation and condemnation of erdogan. definitely. i am so much deeply disappointed by the institutes of the western governments, due to the refugee crisis, in fact... because, what, they need mr erdogan. .. they do not want to annoy him. they want someone to let the refugees in turkey, and the keyholder was erdogan. they made a dirty deal with erdogan, and that was they kept a closed eye to his aggression and in turn erdogan kept the refugees in turkey.

you say "a dirty deal," others say practical politics. to quote the former eu commissioner, gunter verheugen, he said the other day, in fact, it was at the end of last year, in the midst of this negotiation, what turkey could do to stem the flow of refugees into europe, he said "the truth is the european union needs turkey more than turkey needs the european union right now." what about principles? what about democracy? i mean, we have been fighting for so—called "western ideals" like democracy, human rights, press freedom, equality for men and women, secularism... and to see european leaders on the other side, it is really disappointing. they should be supporting democracy in turkey, but instead, umm, they just ignore it. you are in a difficult position because on the one hand you seem

to be asking for the isolation of erdogan by the eu, and surely the whole point of the position is that you want bridges to be built between the european union and turkey. so what message are you sending if turkey was completely isolated? because turkey is not equal to erdogan. so erdogan should be isolated, turkey should not. there is not only erdogan. the opponents, the freedom fighters in turkey, democrats, and, you know, 50% of turkey. you are asking the eu to interfere in turkish internal affairs. no, i do not expect anything from the european governments. but, for example, take this play, the british artists trying to give a hand to turkish democracy by, you know, playing something about turkey, and some publishing houses playing, you know, publishing books about turkey, some universities accepting turkish academics, and trade unions, parties, organisations, i am

talking about this. do not isolate turkey, make it a member in this family. that is a very interesting point you are making. i know you are here to work in a play called "we are arrested," based on a memoir you wrote in prison. and now, the royal shakespeare company no less is putting it on as a play in the uk. how important is that sort of cultural messaging, and reaching out across the world for you today? does it make your life worth living? yeah. this is a lifelong experience. it was a testimony, my book. i got a call from the royal shakespeare company saying we just want to make a play out of this.

do you think it will make a difference? of course. it is a very important message for us. and at the same time, it is a kind of punishment for the aggressive government, saying that art is much more valuable than your dirty politics. it will stay for years. but what about erdogan? you wrote that in prison, so there is no doubting your determination to keep talking and expressing yourself is there. but surely at times you have to think that your wife is still stuck inside turkey, you have other family inside turkey, are you in any way now self—censoring because you are so concerned about them? a very important question. umm, at least you have to think twice what you write and what you talk. i talk to my wife and she said "ok, don't think about me, because this is our struggle." but, of course, this is the logic of taking hostages. if your friends are in jail, your family is there, of course you have to think twice. and this is a kind of new censorship. do you think you will ever be able

to live with your wife again? of course. i am so hopeful about turkey's future. and we are coming to the end of this darkest hour. i saw the film yesterday night, so, u nfortu nately, turkey is now witnessing its... how can you say that with so much optimism as we have discussed that erdogan‘s grip on your country is tighter than ever. but on the other hand, we have half of the people resisting. and just on women's day, streets were full of women resisting even if it is dangerous and risky for them. so, this country will not surrender. and that's why i am so optimistic about the country. can dundar, thank you for coming in hardtalk. thank you.

thank you very much. hello there. temperatures have been slowly recovering over the last couple of days after that mini beast from the east brought us that disruptive snow. in fact, as we head into thursday, a more mild start and a mild afternoon.

good spells of sunshine. feeling quite springlike. the atlantic has come back to life, feeding in cloud and mild air. you can see the air mass chart here, the orange colours moving in on thursday. something more fresh pushing in for the end of the week, for friday. mild air neverfar away. sunshine on the weekend and feeling pleasant. early thursday, damp weather down the east of the country affecting east anglia and the south—east. but elsewhere, largely dry. variable amounts of cloud. a bit more of a breeze further west. but a much milder start on thursday. most places, 4—7. one or two pockets of frost in sheltered rural locations, south—west england and maybe northern scotland. looking good on thursday. losing the cloud from the east of england.

a change in northern ireland and western scotland. increasing wind. 45 miles per hour. outbreaks of rain. elsewhere, a lovely day in store. on thursday night, that rain band will spread across the country, eventually clearing the east for the country on friday. a fairly good—looking day. showers in the north—west. wintry on the hills. a toucher cooler than what we saw on thursday. a typical early spring weekend. sunshine and showers, variable amounts of cloud. generally quite mild, particularly where we get the sunshine. this is saturday morning. a rather cloudy note in central and southern and eastern parts of the country. a bit of rain. skies will brighten up further north and west. showers in scotland and northern ireland, especially on the hills. given some sunshine, temperatures around 11 celcius.

sunday looks like the better day of the weekend. more widespread sunny spells. the best of the sunshine across the east. feeling more milder too, top temperatures around 13 celsius. i'm mariko 0i in singapore, the headlines: mark zuckerberg admits facebook made mistakes mishandling data from 50 million users and promises to make changes. the suspect in the texas bombings blows himself up as police close in. but what motivated 23—year—old mark conditt? i'm sharanjit leyl in london. i'm sharanjit leyl in london. also in the programme: 0ut of control and plummeting to earth. china's first space station could crash land any time but no—one knows where. it is magic until you understand it, and thereafter it's mathematics.

and we meet a teacher you can really count on, the youtube sensation who's making maths fun!