marking the moment, fifty years ago, that the civil rights leader martin luther king, was killed by a white supremacist. addressing the crowd by video link, barack obama said progress didn't come easily and that people should expect setbacks. two people have died in separate attacks in north east london. they take the number of suspected murders in the city this year to more than fifty. fatal stabbings in england and wales are now at their highest levels for eight years. the metropolitan police have blamed social media. mark zuckerberg has insisted he is still the best person to lead facebook, despite the revelation that the personal data of as many as 87 million people may have been misused by british—based political consultants. that's many more than previously disclosed. he admitted making a huge mistake. it is just the bus. it is time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. stephen sackur.

20 years ago, a historic agreement was signed in northern ireland, which put an end to three decades of bloody sectarian conflict. politicians from northern ireland, the uk, the republic of ireland, and the uk, the republic of ireland, and the us, who were involved in those marathon negotiations will mark the anniversary. my guess will be one of them. monica mcwilliams represented them. monica mcwilliams represented the northern ireland women's coalition dan and continues to play a significant role in post— conflict in northern ireland is now. —— guest. is there much to celebrate, that continues to hang over northern —— northern ireland today. —— coalition and. monica mcwilliams,

welcome to hardtalk thank you. kiwi said on the eve of this historic 20th anniversary of the signing of the so—called good friday agreement. —— here we sit on the year. that appeal to you in northern ireland today that it is a very different place rom the northern island of 20 yea rs place rom the northern island of 20 years ago. “— place rom the northern island of 20 years ago. —— different place from the northern ireland of 20 years ago? my own friend was murdered in 1974 as a university student. —— northern. those were hard days. now my children have a completely different life than the life i lead. i lived 30 years through the troubles for about 14. i signed the

agreement when i was 44. so i say to this generation this is your peace: we try to make it, you need to build it. interesting that your children live in this different environment. i was live in this different environment. iwas in live in this different environment. i was in northern ireland is not long ago, and it still strikes me as a deeply come a deeply segregated society. it is indeed. we have a lot of work to do. it is unfinished business. and we may be peace agreement, we said that we would have to work on those issues, and the hardest of all would—be sectarianism. that remains the case. they say that for all the years that you are in conflict in case you the same number of years to come out of it. and the added shoes are the last thing that you can change. you can build the structures, you can build in the kind of systemic changes you wa nt to in the kind of systemic changes you want to see, but to actually change the mindset is — actually it was john hume, the nobel peace prize winner, who said "you can take the guns away, decommission, but the to

decommission the mindset is a different thing. —— but to decommission. " we will get to that. i want is that a lot of this interview took about canterbury northern ireland. but it is the important dig deep into what happened to you and your place over the 20 years, and go back through the 20 years, and go back through the troubles, too. —— contemporary. looking mindset, what was it like being a catholic girl in a close—knit family in a small community close to the city of londonderry, or derry, as catholics call it, in northern ireland, or was it like growing up there in the 19605? well, it it like growing up there in the 1960s? well, it is the it like growing up there in the 19605? well, it is the 50th anniversary today of the murder of martin luther king. and so my memory was sitting watching that and thinking, i wonder if we will ever get civil rights, and civil rights took off in a much for those rights.

idid not took off in a much for those rights. i did not have much consciousness about being a young woman, because i carried a banner saying 1—man, 1—vote. but those were the things that we thought about. we were not as conscious until we were older of the discrimination in housing, jobs, 01’ the discrimination in housing, jobs, or voting. the discrimination in housing, jobs, orvoting. —— the discrimination in housing, jobs, or voting. —— "one man, one vote". even discrimination that you catholics felt in a state that you felt was run by and for the protesta nt felt was run by and for the protestant majority? that was one of the causes. and it could have been resolved much earlier. and it did not need to turn into a violent conflict, the people who are responsible, who had power, and it is very hard to take the candy from the baby without screaming, and they we re the baby without screaming, and they were not about to get that part up. so we have learned that in other conflicts. but it could have been resolved much earlier if those causes of what was creating enormous descent had been tackled. there was

to have everything in my town: to chemists, two butchers, to grocery shops. —— two. and that is the way was until i was 18 and 20 university. you agree told me that you have lost loved ones. you witnessed violence and bombs going off in your street close to your house. —— i was 18 and i went off the —— off to university. house. —— i was 18 and i went off the -- off to university. did you feel hate? no, i don't think that would have been productive. feel hate? no, i don't think that would have been productivem feel hate? no, i don't think that would have been productive. it might not be productive, but you were growing up in a society full of suspicion and hate. why did you not hate? i was angry, suspicion and hate. why did you not hate? iwas angry, as suspicion and hate. why did you not hate? i was angry, as every young person tends to be through their teenage years. i was told that they need to deter me in to something, and my own parents were strong on education, and i was very fortunate that i realised this was not going

to be resolved by hating anybody, but by understanding what their interests were. eventually, 20 years later, that is what happened, and understanding my own interest. that is why for this coalition made up of women from both sides of the community. that is interesting, because if we fast forward to the 90s, user something which northern ireland never a lihaug, which was a women's political party. you made it explicitly nonsectarian by teaming up explicitly nonsectarian by teaming up with a protestant woman. yes, it was not just one up with a protestant woman. yes, it was notjust one woman, but many. we had for the 25 years before the peace talks were declared, we had sowed the seeds across the community. but it was women fighting against poverty. and coming from both sides. as they used to say, you cannot fry a flag in a frying pan. women really realise that men were at this... we needed to get on with the bread—and—butter issues.

at this... we needed to get on with the bread-and-butter issues. as this isa the bread-and-butter issues. as this is a daft and crude question, but did feminism trump sectarianism, the you, anyway? he would not have trumpeted, but many of us realise to realise what sexual violence meant. -- it realise what sexual violence meant. —— it would not have trumpeted it, but many of us realise that what sexual violence meant. we wanted the sexual violence meant. we wanted the sexual violence meant. we wanted the sexual violence act extended to northern ireland. women, like myself we re northern ireland. women, like myself were fed up with having — if we were to sign for a house, we needed a man to sign for a house, we needed a man to do it, if we were going to get some loans, we had to get a man to speak up for us. but also in terms ofjobs. we had to give upjobs if we we re ofjobs. we had to give upjobs if we were going to get married. that was ridiculous amount of discrimination that only we were suffering. so we said discrimination crosses the board here, irrespective of your religion. and of your class.

and that is when we sowed the seeds as far back as that. even in the 1990s, this message struck a chord, and you stood for election in the negotiating forum which became the forum that yielded the good friday agreement. he did not win that many votes, but one enough to win two seats around the table. but reading the record and what happened, there was an awful lot of sexism, misogyny, and abuse and that you around the negotiating table. there was indeed. anyone who has experience that tends to block it out afterwards. and tends to... how bad was it? go home and have babies, you will should not be at this table. the only table you should be at is the table you are to polish. and stand by your man. so we found a way of using a humour. we found a way of using a humour. we found a way of using a humour. we found a way of staying strong as saying this is about them, not about us. but it was incredibly committee. i was a

university lecturer, so i shouldn't have been so emotional about it. but when somebody is daily telling you that you don't count, it does lower your confidence, but every night the women came together in my house or in the house of some of the other women who had children, were needed to talk, and that was a solidarity, and that was how we kept our streets together. you think that because there were women in the room, which northern ireland was not used to, it actually brought some indifferent, fresh, to the table? us—led interesting things in retrospect. you have said you had to allow yourself to believe that individuals, even those who carried out violence, can change will stop you think many didn't believe in the humanity that you can see all believed in and hopeful? that was the case for some of the matter the table, but not all of them. i will

say something that is probably controversial, now. the two parties that were associated with paramilitaries, will they were the gentlemen at the table, who stood up for us when we receive the abuse. and it is good that they will go to challenge it as well as us. and some of this was about people not wanting to sit with their enemies. and we had already decided that as nasr mandela had once told us in south africa, you had to make peace with those enemies. not with your friends that you are going to sit and negotiate. that was the hardest part. understanding the legitimacy ofair in part. understanding the legitimacy of air in the table. notjust us and the women's coalition, but the man. but your question is so pertinent. yes is the answer. in this difference when women are at the table. ibbett come with progressive about conflict resolution is based not all women are essentially these beggars, but we have decided that we re beggars, but we have decided that were going to be involved in an

inclusive process that involves those that had been armed combatants as well as constitutional parties. and it was that makes it will co nsta ntly and it was that makes it will constantly pushing a seeing if we can say together, we will get through this together, and we did. but you had big ambitions. you made it plain that this was notjust about institution building in ablative says, but more than that. you said it had to deal with the rights of victims, young people, education, and mixed housing. and they built the institution and there was a power—sharing executive, and will talk about what happened to it in minute, but on those deeper, deeper roots of a change in northern ireland, frankly, 20 years on, i am wondering whether you just feel severe disappointment. that me say first that we put those issues on the table. we realise that this was more than demobilisation and disarmament, and for sustainable peace, you need integrated education, and to speak about what you will do for the young people

coming behind you. most importantly, you need to say what you will do for the victims of the conflict. otherwise it is a terrorist charter. he talked about that and wanted to deliver that. my point is that you haven't. if you go to northern ireland today, the schools are segregated. there is a great big so—called peaceful that divides protesta nt a nd so—called peaceful that divides protestant and catholic neighbourhoods in belfast at this very day. you still have the parades, men in paramilitary uniforms doing their thing in towns and villages across northern ireland. so in that cultural committee presents, you haven't done it. it is a beginning another man. the first thing we did was to preset insecurity for people. those issues will be longer term. i think what we did was look at short—term gains, and still didn't concentrate on the long column pain of letting people go to school together, leading —— long—term pain of letting people go to school together. there were no it

indicated education schools close to my home covered does not mean that they are, it would not fight for them today. there is more choice. but you're right, unless there is little will to drive it forward, we will remain segregated. —— close to my home, but that does not mean that i would not fight them today. if people come to northern ireland they will see separate schools and communities and even the peace walls. there is now a deadline for the walls to come down, 2023. i am the walls to come down, 2023. i am the early woman on a four member coalition for the disbandment of paramilitary. but we will also set a deadline. i believe in this more than my colleagues. but they will have to dig themselves out of the picture. let me ask your question. you say you have to believe, that you need to be realistic. the police service of northern ireland has released figures this year which show last year there were more violent incidents involving

paramilitaries on violent incidents involving pa ramilitaries on both violent incidents involving paramilitaries on both sides than in the previous year, a really significant rise. that is worrying. and you are responsible for trying to work out how to do it paramilitary. but it is not going in the right direction. if you look generally today at all these issues we arejust raise, generally today at all these issues we are just raise, you could argue that northern ireland, to an outsider, looks a society which could very easily slid back into violent conflict. ido i do not agree with that analysis. we are trying to stop using the word paramilitary, some people are calling a child abuse but there were 50 people killed in london this you would knife attacks. it is not going to bea would knife attacks. it is not going to be a perfect peace but we will tackle those issues and the community is going to be the first to say no more control, no more people pretending to be paramilitary groups. they are rising up and there are wonderful things going on that

people do not see, it does not get reported, and that is why i would say, until the day i am carried into my coffin, i'll be working at this, thatis my coffin, i'll be working at this, that is worth working out. right now, the power—sharing executive is not working. the two parties, the unionist party and sinn fein, cannot work together. do you feel let down by the leaders today? yeah, used to feel an enormous sense of failure and frustration, it continues but thatis and frustration, it continues but that is not useful emotions, you just have to keep working at it. they should have learned by now how to do they should have learned by now how todoa they should have learned by now how to do a deal and there is nothing wrong with the agreement, either the belfast good friday agreement or st andrews. it is about relationship building, committing to something, it is about promising to carry it out... i come back to the word realism, an historian and spends a lot of time thinking about northern irish politics, she says that given it is more than year since you have

had workable power—sharing, she says the truth is that the good friday agreement has outlived its usefulness. i think that is total nonsense, i do not know when ruth dudley edwards was back in belfast to see the life i am now leading. it is not just to see the life i am now leading. it is notjust the governance arrangements, it is the policing changes which are now a role model for other countries. there have been many changes institutionally, there has been a human rights... she's not saying do away with all of that, she is saying there an inbuilt mandatory coalition between the main unionist party and the republican, nationalist party is no longer fit for purpose. she says that is not the way that politics in a mature society should work. well, perhaps we are not that mature yet and we need those institutions. they were brought in for a reason and i believe that those relationships we re believe that those relationships were improved, it would be a good thing. i thought working and it was a lovely thing to see, when ian paisley and the former enemy and

martin mcguinness came together, those institutions worked. sometimes it is about chemistry, personality, but most of all that is about committing to what he promised and people did not live up to those commitments. we have to get back around that table. i have been around that table. i have been around that table many, many times before. i believe those negotiations can come out the other end. i would love to say to people like ruth dudley edwards and others, what you think is the alternative? is not going to be power—sharing, it is going to be power—sharing, it is going to be about power—sharing. there is no such thing as majority will any more, in fact there are no majority is any more. so what do you do? reform coalitions, we are not the only country. the republic of ireland has a coalition, many european countries, angela merkel has a coalition. one reason it has not worked as at brexit appears to be directly affecting the mood of people in northern ireland because one of the biggest controversial and

unknown is about brexit right now is what is going to do to the border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland, how big a factor is that? huge and you have put yourfinger on it, it is unknown. it is the uncertainty, it has given us back into silos that we did not need to go back into. the good thing about our agreement was also the british and irish government coming together to sing off the same page, now how are they going to do that? we cannot go back toa going to do that? we cannot go back to a border between the north and the south, those constitutional arrangements were meant to be resolved. i sat at that table, i wrote european into that agreement over and over again. i am a proud european, andi over and over again. i am a proud european, and i no longer want to live in a little, tiny society... well, with all due respect, that is you and your choice but the fact is that the uk public as a whole voted ina that the uk public as a whole voted in a referendum to live and is incumbent upon the people of northern ireland as a whole to figure out how they can be part of

the will of the people? well, let me say it is notjust me. northern ireland voted to remain. i think they were sensible people who saw that if they did any other, it would create problems further down the road which we did not need, but yes, it is foreign policy and therefore the uk voted to go. did you? did anybody going to the polls thatjune think well, i wonder will my vote have an impact on that little place over there called northern ireland? it is part of this united kingdom, for over 30 years, they had a violent conflict, then they resulted in actually being part of europe helped the result that. no, they didn't, they did not even think about and now they have in the hope is that. a key player on the unionist side to the era of peace negotiations says categorically it is rubbish that brexit in itself will undermine the good friday agreement, he sees people like he was making excuses. he could be correct in saying that by itself it will not undermine it but it is

certainly a factor that we could have done without. it has created uncertainty, which i am certain he would also agree. he was always, a lwa ys would also agree. he was always, always against the european union. us saw it as a problem and i respect people's views who saw it that way but in terms of its impact on that agreement, it is having a huge impactandi agreement, it is having a huge impact and i think it is unnecessary, and we are going to have to come out the other end of it in october and i think all good heads are going to put together to make sure that ireland is not go to a division. do you think it is unhelpful when the irish republic and key players in that government talk about not just the wedge and key players in that government talk about notjust the wedge that they see brexit placing in the middle of the island of ireland and they worry about that, but they go further and for example the 45—year—old foreign minister of the republic said not so long ago, he said you know, in my lifetime, i believe that there will be a

referendum on a united ireland, raising the spectre of something which is so divisive in the north. is that helpful? well, constitutionally, he is correct but the question is when? and as someone once said to be in the negotiations, you should not always ask a question until you are certain you know what is coming up the other end and that was over the referendum and was about decommissioning of guns and a whole lot of other questions, and i would say to simon, it would be better that we messed that and let's resolve these issues at the moment. i want to leap peacefully with my neighbours in northern ireland, i do not want to be in a place apart, in a space we do not know each other, as strangers. we have come a long, long way and what i want to do is allow people the consensus which was at the core of our agreement to decide what they want to do... yeah. brexit will drive them into a place where they do not want to be. the 20 yea rs on we where they do not want to be. the 20 years on we have the uncertainty of the exit and we have political

limbo. —— —— but. how long can i continue before it becomes profoundly dangerous?” continue before it becomes profoundly dangerous? i do not think we are anywhere close to becoming dangerous. i do think that we are in a very uncertain period where people are once again, where they do not need to be angry with each other, r. iam certain need to be angry with each other, r. i am certain that we will come through this without violence, another does not mean that people are laughing, rushing to sign up as customs or immigration ‘s offices. —— are rushing to because they are the people that may be threatened. —— customs or immigration officers. we have lived with that but that does not mean that we will go anything close to the conflict that icame anything close to the conflict that i came through. we have tested the price of peace and we will go on doing so. there was a time when you

are young woman and the troubles we re are young woman and the troubles were at their height, that you thought about living in the united states but then you decided to come home. do you think your grandchildren will actually want to live in northern ireland or will they see it as a place that is too divided, to segregated, to make a decent life? i came home, i left after the murder of my good student friend, michael, in 1974 because i felt it was never going to change andi felt it was never going to change and i could not bear it, but i could not bear to stay there in united states, far away, and watch what was going on in my own country. so i got my qualifications and came home and set myself, i have ask this question of myself, having a son in chicago, andi of myself, having a son in chicago, and i have worked all my life to make the country peaceful place to come home to. he loves where he is out, he has a good job where he is out, he has a good job where he is out, and my other son has also had to because he could not find a job

in northern ireland. that is the company i want to have, i want not just my children to come home, i wa nt every just my children to come home, i want every child to come home, not just to a safe place that took place prosperity, where they can work. monica mcwilliams, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you very much. wednesday brought a real mix of weather across the country. thursday is looking completely different. it's going to be quite a chilly start. frosty start for some of us, but the weather is looking great. a lot of sunshine eventually in the afternoon. that'll be right across the country. this is the cloud that's bringing the unsettled weather

still in the north, with some snow in places as well. but that is finally clearing away and as we head through the course of the morning, the remnants of the cloud across parts of lincolnshire, the midlands, east anglia, and the south—east but the skies already clearing in many parts. by early thursday morning, it will clear in northern england too, and the temperatures will drop away like a stone in the northern half of the uk. some rural spots in scotland could get down to —7 degrees, whereas in the south, around 3—6 degrees celsius. here's the forecast for tomorrow. the last of that cloud will clear away from the south—east in the morning on thursday, then sunshine all round. now, a slightly cooler day on the way thursday. maybe 8—12 degrees celsius. that's because the morning will be pretty chilly. that sun will have to work harder to warm things up. there's a weather front approaching. that weather front will be in place in western areas across friday. quite a split in the weather towards the end of the week.

many western areas will eventually turn fairly cloudy. there will be some outbreaks of rain, particularly in plymouth and the western isles as well. look at that central and eastern areas, arrows coming in from the south. the southerly wind will start to making still warmer. temperatures up to 15 in london, some eastern areas getting up to 13, possibly, as well. now, friday into saturday, that warm air is still with us. certainly not for everybody. it will mostly hugging south—eastern and eastern areas of the country. by the time we get to saturday, the chances are that it may turn warmer still. but notice that there is a bit of rain drifting out of the south, moving northwards. some of us will get some rain on saturday, but the possibility of temperatures getting up to 17 degrees in east anglia. that is really going to feel like spring. but for most of us on saturday, it will still be cooler, more like 12—14 degrees. on sunday, eventually that blob of rain from from the north, will move northwards into scotland.

things should dry out. still decent temperatures, 14 in london, 13 expected in edinburgh and glasgow as well. that's it, have a good day. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. our top stories: 50 years on, commemorating the life and murder of the civil rights leader dr martin luther king. a huge mistake, says mark zuckerberg. he has now admitted data from up to 87 million facebook users may have been misused. china unveils its retaliation in the trade dispute with president trump, but hints that talks are also possible. also in the programme: we meet the south african doctor who gave up medicine to sing his heart out.