attacked by missiles, a day after a suspected chemical attack on a suburb of damascus. there are reports of loud explosions near an airfield in the city of homs. syria is claiming to have shot down eight missiles. the us denies any knowledge of an incident. now on bbc news, hardtalk. the outside world tends to view scandinavia as a haven of prosperity, progressive politics and social liberalism, but look closer and you find a powerful strand of right—wing populism fuelled by a suspicion of immigration. my guest is sivjensen, finance minister and the leader of the right—wing progress party, a partner in norway's coalition government for the past five years. how does populism work in a country rated one of the world's richest and happiest? sivjensen, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you very much. labels are inevitable in politics, ijust described your party, the progress party in norway as right wing and populist. do you accept that label? no, it is not a populist party, it is libertarian. we focus on free trade, market orientation, lower taxes, less states, individualfreedom. yeah. that is the origin of your party, but it seems to me in recent years increasingly, you and your party, have honed in —

on a populist fashion — on the issue of immigration. immigration is an important issue to my party, as it is in many countries in europe and that has to do with the fact that we have seen a lot of migration and to some extent it has been damaging into many countries economies. so what we have done in norway is that we have... it hasn't been damaging your economy, you have one of, if not the strongest economy in europe. it is good, it is doing well. it was hit by the oil price shock in 2014, that affected us very much and at the same time we had the flow of migration also to norway, which meant that we had to tighten the immigration policy and now we have control. so we have less people coming in to norway than before, which means we can concentrate on integration, which is very important to secure economic

growth for the future. in that sense, you acknowledge that immigration has been a key plank of your platform over the last few years. a very important part. in that way, commentators both in norway and beyond do see links between the strength of your party and a rise of people like marine le pen in france, the md in germany, which are hitting the same hot buttons when it comes to playing upon peoples fears of immigration. we don't play on people's fears, we talk about the obvious, control on our borders and ensuring we have a better immigraiton policy, it ensures that when people arrive in norway and maybe need to live there for the rest of their lives, they need to learn the language, get a job and provide for themselves and their family. that is obvious. that is not scary talk. if you don't play up on people fears, why did you refer to the "sneaking islamisation" of the european society, a few years ago? because it is true.

islamisation of european society? i disagree with the label you have put on my party. we are libertarian, but are also concerned about immigration, that is why we are tightening the policy and it works in norway. if you reject the label populist, but that you play on people's fears, how did you respond when your party colleague sylvi listhaug recently resigned as minister ofjustice, when she was a minister in the coalition before and was immigration minister shi said this "we are fully aware that there are wolves in sheep's clothing, fundamentalists who hate our norwegian system are coming to exploit our boundless norwegian naivete." and you say you don't play upon peoples fears? yes, this is something that takes part in the public

debate every day. it is something we need to address. and that is why we have. you, like your colleagues, see immigrants as wolves in sheep's clothing? the majority of immigrants living in norway are behaving very well. they are well integrated, go to work every day and learn the language and take part in society. what we need to learn is that there are people not integrated and we have our fair share of that, an increasing problem, especially if we want to make sure that we have sustainable economic growth also in the future. we will get to economic growth, because you are finance minister, but you are leader of the progress party because i need to stay with the immigration debate, because it is important in your country and europe. and also the uk. when you talk about sneaking islamisation, remind me, what percentage of norway's population is muslim? i really don't know.

it is roughly 4%. the point... how can that be islamisation when 4% — one in 25 of your populatin is muslim ? it's actually something of great concern to many around the world. we have had increasing problems with radical islam, many of us are actually taking part in controlling the is in syria, so this is an increasing problem and some of these people are returning to their original country. they are representing a threat to us and this is something we need to take seriously. sure, but we are talking about norway, not talking about syria. norway has 200,000 or so people who are muslims. are you suggesting to me that you see them as fundamentally a security threat, a threat within your midst in norway? we have never said that. what is this wolf in sheep's clothing thing? we have never said all muslims

are a threat to norwegian society, what we have been addressing is radical islam, as an increasing problem to society and the rest of the western world and i think this is something to take seriously and to be very clear, if we politicians do not take part in these debates, i think that is more dangerous actually. debate has to be had, i'm sure. this is your contribution. this was on facebook more than one year ago. you talk about integration, which is say is very important. you say, "we have a big challenge now, to integrate those who have permission to stay in norway, we have to make sure they respect norwegian values." then you go on, "it is not allowed to beat your children in norway, here we eat pork, drink alcohol, show our faces and would you must abide by these values, laws and regulations when you are in norway." are you suggesting that muslims in your country have a proclivity for beating children? what we are talking

about are issues that people talk about in public life. we have discussions on many of these issues every day. do you believe muslims beat their children in a way that other cultures do not? no, i don't believe that. why this reference to beating children? the point is that we want to make sure that everyone who wants to live in norway lives by a certain set of standards. that we can face each other, that we can talk to each other. that we can help each other and that we can take part in the same society. this tone, i am sure, without a doubt, you do not believe that norwegians are required to eat pork or drink alcohol, but again, why lay out those things as fundamental norwegian values when you know that the signal you are sending is that somehow muslims, who of course don't eat pork and many don't drink alcohol, can't be proper norwegians? we have been very, very clear on that.

as i said, not all muslims are a problem at all. as i said, most muslims living in norway are behaving very well and are well integrated and window they contribute a lot to our society. but i still believe it is important for us to address issues concerning immigration, concerning radical islam and we will continue to do so. i believe your party, the progress party, is pushing for a ban on a full face veil, notjust in place of education, but in all public places in norway. the government has now put forward a proposition that concerns the education place and kindergarten. and you want to go further, just as you want to tighten immigration further. that is my party standards, but we are very happy —— that is my party stance, but we are very happy that we are now launching these changes that we are talking about.

i wonder if it gives you pause for thought when you see the latest oslo police report, recording a very serious significant increase in the number of reported hate crimes, they have increased a great deal and the police say the biggest increase we see is amongst women being insulted in the category of religion and most specifically, islam. i wonder if you might see a link there between your parties preoccupation with banning the full face veil and the fact that there is a very significant rise in hate crimes directed at muslim women. first of all, let me say that hate crime is not acceptable at all and it is very good that the police is reporting on this and they do something about it. i think all norwegians should be very, very careful about this because hate crime is not acceptable whatsoever. you had a bit of a political crisis in your party and in the coalition in recent months concerning the woman i mentioned earlier, sylvi listhaug, the minister ofjustice, and she, as i understand, was pushing for legislation that would give the authorities in norway the right

to strip individuals suspected of terrorism or being associated with jihadism, strip them of their rights to norwegian citizenship without any judicial oversight or review. the labour party, the opposition, opposed her plan, she then posted on facebook a picture of masked men in military fatigues with ammunition and weapons and she said this, " labour thinks terrorist rights are more important than our nation's security, please like and share." what did you think of that? first of all, i am very glad that she apologised for putting that post on facebook because it was over the top. that said, the proposal she referred to was the government's proposal, that did not pass parliament. no, because labour wouldn't accept it.

they do not have the ability to have a joint majority by themselves. it did not pass parliment. that's democracy. she decided, as far as labour are concerned, they took a stand on what they considered to be an abuse on constitutional values in norway. this colleague of yours, in your party, basically said that labour was siding with terrorists. first of all, the proposal that you refer to was the government's proposal. but the post she put out on facebook, she apologised for and i am glad because it was over the top. do you believe your party has room for people like her in it? yes, i do. so an apology is fine? the fact that she... many of our viewers and listeners might not remember, but in 2011, a terrorist — a norwegian terrorist — attacked a youth camp, a labour party youth camp and killed

dozens of young people. so the labour party is particularly sensitive to accusations that it is the terrorists friend and betraying norwegian values. i am wondering what she would have to have said, for you to say to her you are not longer acceptable in our party. first of all, the terrorist attack that hit norway was terrible and the government has spent a lot of time securing our society after that. i think that has been very, very important for us to do. secondly, i think it is a good thing for any politician, if you go wrong, if you say something that you shouldn't, that you have the ability to apologise for it. i think that is actually something that more politicians should do and i am glad she did. that is why we have moved on, but she resigned and a new minister ofjustice was actually appointed yesterday. one more word on this

and i will move on. can you see her coming back into the norwegian government? yes, in the future, yes i can. she is actually a very, very good politician with a brilliant future ahead of her. let's talk about norway and the eu. there is much discussion of it because you are not in the european union, but you are in the european economic area, which gives you full access to the single market and customs union. it comes at a price because you have to pay into the eu and you have to abide by roughly three quarters of eu rules and regulations. a fundamental part of your economy is governed from brussels. do you, in the progress party, think that is a sustainable status quo for norway? well, the progress party is in favour of the ea agreements, but we're against us moving towards being a member of the eu. we've had two referendums in norway and, both times, the majority of the population said no tojoining the eu,

but i think the ea agreement has very broad support in norway because we are — the european market is the most important market to norway. but isn't it fundamentally antidemocratic? because many of the rules and regulations and laws that govern the way, certainly, the norwegian economy works are made in brussels and you have no voice whatsoever in setting those rules and regulations. well, it's true that our voice is weaker than it would have been if we sat at the table but i think, that said, we have more flexibility without being a member than if we were a member, but the ea agreement has a lot of support in norway, also in the parliament, huge majority is in favour of it, it serves us well, especially since it gives us access to the single market, which is very important to a small, open economy like the norwegian one. yeah, well...

it's interesting in britain to look at norway because we, of course, took a decision through a referendum to pursue the track of brexit. yes. and brexit is going to happen, according to the government. now, there is discussion about whether we should pursue the norway model. this is what your prime minister erna solberg said, she said be careful because our type of connection with the eu is going to be difficult for britain because then brussels will decide, without the brits being able to participate in the decision—making process. from your perspective, you just said we're a small country. do you think, for britain, the kind of deal that you have with the eu would be appropriate? i don't think i should give advice on how brexit — the results of brexit should be for the uk. this is something that you have to negotiate with the eu side and find your solution to it.

i think, our experience with the agreement since 1994 has been very good. there is, of course, from time to time we have a debate also in our country on making certain changes to the agreement and so forth, but the overall picture is that it serves us well, very well. it would be a big problem for you if britain does what some call the hard brexit — that is leave the eu ultimately without a full—fledged trade deal and without agreeing to participate in the single market and in the customs union. in that case, norway, which has britain as its biggest trading partner, would be in a very difficult place, wouldn't it? let me say that, the bilateral relationship between norway and the uk is excellent and it will be, no matter what happens with the brexit deal. but you don't quite know that because you don't know what the trading relationship with the uk and the eu will be and as you're part of the european economic area,

you're governed by what the eu decides do. yeah, of course. we follow the ongoing negotiations from the side with interest, of course. but i think the norwegian relationship with the eu side will not change with brexit, and our relationship to the uk will not change, except the fact that we need to make some formalities through legislation, we need to have more bilateral agreements between the two countries and so forth, but i'm very, very sure that we will be able to sit down and negotiate that. what if britain gets a more favourable deal with the eu than you've got? i.e britain perhaps is required to pay in less or britain has more freedom to operate outside the rules of the eu than you do, and yet gets the advantages, most at least of the advantages of frictionless trade with the european union? would that move norway to want to renegotiate its own deal with the european union?

i think i don't — this is not the time to speculate in that. i think, first we will have to see the outcome of the ongoing negotiations. but i can say that we are very happy with the agreement that we have because it serves us well, and then we are concerned with, with solving the aftermath that needs to be resolved between us bilaterally after brexit, and i'm sure that we are perfectly able to do so. we have already started the discussions with the uk on this... your former european affairs minister said hard brexit will affect norway dramatically, as dramatically as any eu member state. i mean, there is a sense of alarm building in norway, is there not? ithink... what we need to do is to... we need to just accept the outcome of the negotiations between the uk and the eu. it's nothing that we can do anything about, but i think

that this can be resolved and i'm sure that there will be a good result when it comes, when we see the result in the end. before we end, i would like to ask you something else — directly responsible, you are, as finance minister, for overseeing in government the sovereign wealth fund, a massive $1 trillion oil fund that norway has developed and nurtured over many years. last year was pretty unusual, because i think it was the first year that actually, your outflows from the fund exceeded the new money

we are looking into that now and we have not made any decision on that, but what we do is, we already diversify the fund. the fund is invested globally, it's a diversified fund. we are in several thousand companies globally, in many different areas, and that's how we need

to invest the fund. i suppose it raises a question, though. norway, built on oil and gas to a certain extent. in the long run, the world economy is trying to decarbonise, it's trying to wean itself off fossil fuels. does that, in the long—term, present a fundamental challenge for norway? no, and i think norway will continue to be an oil and gas producer producer for many, many decades. do you? yes, we will. but... you say that happily, even though the world is committed to decarbonisation? but we also need to reorientate our economy, we need to invest broader, because we experienced very clearly what could happen after the oil price dropped in 2014. we needed to diversify our economy and that's what we're doing for the time being, but we will still be an oil and gas producer for decades to come, but at a lower speed than we have been for the decades behind us. and we have known this for a long time but it's —

this is an important industry to norway and we are proud of it, and it's also producing with — quite, quite well, i would say. alright, sivjensen, we have to end there. 0k. but thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk, thank you very much indeed. hello. for much of the week ahead, our air is coming from the east but don't worry, it doesn't look particularly cold, as we'll see. not so much sunshine in the week ahead as we enjoyed in cornwall, though, on sunday. it looked pretty nice too in inverness, broken cloud and sunny spells.

scotland and northern ireland will see the best of the sunny spells as we go on through monday. some fog around to start the day, it could be quite dense in places — that gradually clearing. through east anglia and south—east england, a lot of cloud here, patchy rain and drizzle. 0n through the day, thatjust shunts a bit further west towards the midlands, maybe eastern parts of wales late in the day, with some spots in south—west england. looking to northern ireland and scotland, a few showers developing, not everybody will catch one. if you do, it could be on the heavy side. temperatures for the most part around ten to 14 degrees, it could be quite misty and murky throughout the day. some eastern coastal parts of northern ireland, and some spots on the north sea coast as well. 0n through monday night, an area of rain expands to cover more of england, parts of wales, some darker blues, some heavier bursts developing as well as we go into tuesday morning. now, as monday begins, it'll be fairly chilly. less so on tuesday morning and frost is not a worry as we go through this week.

as we look at the big picture for tuesday, low pressures to the south of us. it's around that spiralling we see some wet weather systems occasionally, like the one we start off with on tuesday. high pressure in scandinavia. the flow of air around the two means it is an easterly flow coming into the uk but look at the colours here, they're not baltic blue, the air‘s not coming from siberia, actually the eastern mediterranean so it's certainly not cold there. so, as we go through the week, temperatures for many of us will be at or slightly above average, but there's one significant exception with that air coming across the cold north sea, along the north sea coast will be chilly, single figure temperatures. some rain at times this week, not all the time. some drier and even sunnier moments to be enjoyed too. this is how tuesday's shaping up. we start off with that weather system, with some heavier bursts of rain slowly moving away from england and wales towards parts of scotland and northern ireland. the north—west of scotland holding onto the fine weather for longest. south of that, brightening up nicely. some sunny spells, there could be some heavy and maybe thundery showers into parts of england, especially south—west england

and south wales later in the day. as we go on through the week, wednesday onwards, low cloud, single figures. wednesday onwards, elsewhere, temperatures could be as high as 17 degrees in london. west is best for the drier, brighter weather at times as we go through this week, and it looks like a pretty decent work week to come here in north—west scotland. bye— bye. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story: state media in syria says there has been a military strike on one of its airfields in homs. it comes a day after a suspected chemical attack. the self styled defender of christian culture, viktor 0rban, wins by a landslide in hungary's general election. comedian bill cosby — once the most watched man on american television — is back in court, charged with drugging and sexually assaulting a woman. the maritime industry meets in london to try to find a way

to cut down on its green house gas emissions. we'll be asking if a deal really can be done. and president trump says he can see an end to the trade dispute with china.