hello, it's monday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. this morning we're in tottenham in north london — looking at what can be done to stem the violence which london has seen in the last few months. the met has opened 55 murder investigations in the capital since 1st january, many involving gangs, guns and knives. so how do we stop people from picking up weapons? it's just a stupid ideology, where are you from? i don't know you, what postcode are you from? it is just stupid. how many mums are going to shed a million tears because their son is stabbed? for every death — there is a family left devastated — we'll hear from some of those families on the programme this morning. that broke me, seeing my son on the bed, dead. it broke me totally. all

i was doing was just crying. these killings on the streets of london have raised questions about resources for the police and the powers officers should have to protect us from violence. a leaked home office document says a fall in police numbers is likely to have contributed to a rise in serious violent crime. i think it is a mistake and we do a disservice to the communities and the families who have seen these tragedies, byjust pointing to police numbers. this morning the home secretary amber rudd will set out her plans for reducing violence crime — and we'll hear from a group of people directly affected by it and ask them what the authorities need to do. hello. welcome to the programme, we're live at tottenham until 11 this morning. throughout the programme we're

really keen to hear from you — if you've been affected by gang, gun or knife violence — tell us what you think. you can send us an e—mail, whatsapp oi’ you can send us an e—mail, whatsapp or text. carole walker is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the news. good morning. syrian state media says one of its military airbases has come under sustained missile attack. a monitoring group said 14 people died at the base near the city of homs. the united states has denied involvement. the un security council is meeting later to discuss the suspected use of chemical weapons in the rebel—held town of douma — which has been condemned by world leaders. dozens of people died in the attack on saturday. a leaked home office document,

seen by bbc news, says a fall in police numbers is likely to have contributed to a rise in serious violent crime. yesterday, the home secretary, amber rudd, said in a newspaper article that evidence did not support the claim that the recent surge in violent attacks in london could be linked to cuts in police resources. the government says it won't comment on leaked documents — and will set out new measures to tackle serious crime later today. a man has been arrested in central london after police stopped a suspicious vehicle near buckingham palace. details are still coming in and we'll update you on that you on that story as more information becomes available. police say a carbon monoxide leak might be to blame for the deaths of two men in a house in edgware in north london. paramedics took five other people, including two boys, to hospital as a precaution. neighbours say the occupants only recently moved into the property. police are working with the health and safety executive

to investigate further. the hip—hop musical hamilton has swept the board at the olivier awards last night. it won seven of its 13 nominations including best new musical. the west end production tells the story of one of america's founding fathers, alexander hamilton. bryan cranston from the tv series, breaking bad, was named best actor for his portrayal of howard beale in the national theatre production, network. the ferryman picked up three awards including best new play, best director and best actress. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30. sport now and mike bushell has the latest from the commonwealth games. yes, thank you. as dusk falls on the gold coast, australia, i can tell you that nile wilson has just won

his third gold medal of the commonwealth games. the english gymnast has just claimed victory in the horizontal bar final. wilson had already won two golds and two silvers including one silver earlier today in the parallel bars. gold also this morning for alice kinsella on the beam, adding to the all—around bronze she won earlier in the games. she was joined on the podium by compartriot kelly simm, who won bronze. england's adam gemili has withdrawn from the 100m final after struggling with a thigh injury. the 24—year—old won silver in glasgow and qualified for the final afterfinishing behind yohan blake in the semi—final on sunday. away from the games — and the american patrick reed has won the masters in augusta — his first major title. he finished 15 under par, beating fellow american rickie fowler by a single shot. rory mcilroy was the highest placed brit, but struggled on his final round and finished six shots behind.

that is all your sport for now. time to get back to victoria in to them. thank you, mike. hello, good morning. this morning — how do we stop the wave of violence which is seeing so many deaths on the streets of the uk — but particularly london. the mets have opened 55 murder investigation since the beginning of the year. this morning we're in tottenham where there have been four killings here since the new year. we've gathered together local residents, activists, youth workers and those who've lost loved ones — to look at what's going on and ask what can be done to stop it. we are in tottenham town hall this morning. there is an echo in this council chamber, this pretty cavernous chamber, but we are just taking upa cavernous chamber, but we are just taking up a little part of it this

morning to have conversations about this really serious issue. the causes of those deaths are disputed and so are the solutions. but the pain is raw. the police in london have launched at least 55 murder investigations so far this year. of those, at least 35 victims were stabbed to death. in 2017, that number was a day, so although it's only april in 2017, that number was 80, so although it's only april we are nearly halfway to last yea r‘s total. stabbings in london are at their highest level in six years, with a 23% rise from the previous year. the chief of london's metropolitan police says the force has not lost control. i can understand why some people are very worried at the moment. particularly in some areas of london. we can't solve this by ourselves, and we are working with a whole range of other people, and we also need the help of the public. the met police say they are

deploying more than 300 officers to the streets of london in response to the recent rise in violent crimes. there are a number of theories about why there is a spike. social media is being blamed by some for fuelling the rise, with young people using platforms to boast about gang activities and to taunt rivals. things go viral really quickly. news spread. whereas when you were younger you wouldn't even know that so—and—so wanted a punch—up or to go into an altercation, there wouldn't be no... whereas you hear of a tough person in a certain area, you wouldn't know what they look like. now, because everyone can see who that person is, they think, you know what, let me challenge him, let me make him look an idiot, let me embarrass him. and when they try to go and get a reputation and kudos for themselves, now it all goes all over everywhere and that's where it spreads. some say police stop and search powers are not being used enough, which has caused knife crime to rise. the mayor of london says... when stop and search is used properly, it is an invaluable tool

to the police and what we want is more intelligent targeted stop and search. others say austerity cuts to community centres and youth services is to blame for the update. it's notjust about police numbers. it's about our community services as well — our youth service, our children's centres, our social centres and our local councils that have seen significant cuts to their budgets as well. however, the last ten crime in london was close to the levels we are seeing it as it was from 2002—2004. go back a decade. serious violent crime was a lot more higher than it was today, but so were the police numbers, so for anyone to suggest that this is caused by police numbers, it is not... it's still not clear whether the uptake in violent crime is a long—term trend, but that's little consolation to the friends and families who have already lost loved ones in the latest violence on london's streets. a leaked document says a reduction

in police numbers contributes to the rise in violent crime. amber rudd will be speaking later this morning and you will hear her speak on bbc news. neighbours say the government have only just woken news. neighbours say the government have onlyjust woken up to the problem. with us here are a group of people who have direct experience of gun and knife crime. let me introduce you to cheryl devenish who lives in tottenham along with her daughter nicole. alison cope, whose18—year—old son joshua ribera —

aka the rapper depzman — was stabbed to death in birmingham. sitting next to alison is creeper, a friend ofjoshua. sitting next to alison is creeper, a friend of joshua. also sitting next to alison is creeper, a friend ofjoshua. also here today is and marie lewis, a youthjustice and is to do. next to her is dal babu, a former chief superintendent in the metropolitan police. vicky cockroft is chair of pa rliament‘s metropolitan police. vicky cockroft is chair of parliament's youth violence commission, that is a cross— party violence commission, that is a cross—party commission set up to examine the root causes of violence in britain. paul scully is here, conservative mp for sutton, cheam and worcester park in london. we also have jermaine —— and worcester park in london. we also havejermaine —— may and jermaine lawlor who was involved in gangs from young age —— name macro

stop —— jay soloman. i would gangs from young age —— name macro stop ——jay soloman. i would like gangs from young age —— name macro stop —— jay soloman. i would like to talk to you, alison, this is the first time you have seen your innate son's friend in five years. can you explain why it has been so emotional? # your late son's friend. he was a big part of the case. there was a lot surrounding the situation. he was the person in the middle of the stabbing, he was friends with the stabbing, he was friends with the boy who killed my son. he was also my son's friend and there has been a lot of controversy and i did not know he was going to be here today, and he did not know i was going to be here. it is very emotional. it takes me back to that moment, and hearing thousands of young people tell me what happened

on the night and i still to this day do not know what the truth is. so to see him is incredibly difficult for me. have you asked creeper what happened to your son? not today because i will probably sob in uppal on the floor. we spoke a bit on the second day of the next day, we spoke a bit but then, we never got in contact. it has been incredibly difficult because when a young person gets murdered, a lot of people like to give their opinion and you never know what the truth is. unfortunately, when it came to the case, thejudge made a decision to ban me from the courtroom because he felt i was to influential to the young people, so if i got upset, it could trigger violence, so i never really heard what creepa had to say and what the boy who killed my son had to say so for years later, i don't know what happened on the

night. creepa does so for me to be brave and sit and listen will be incredibly painful, but i will do that, but probably not today. absolutely, and that is absolutely your prerogative and we totally understand. creepa, my understanding is you tried to stopjoshua from being attacked? yes, i was friends with both joshua and the being attacked? yes, i was friends with bothjoshua and the person being attacked? yes, i was friends with both joshua and the person who stabbed him and killed him. and it was over a girl? it was a few things, really. iwould say was over a girl? it was a few things, really. i would say a couple of girls, jealousy as well. because joshua was a well— known rapper. of girls, jealousy as well. because joshua was a well—known rapper. he was good at what he did. a lot of people looked up to him, including myself. he was doing good in music at the time. that is exactly what i wanted to do. we were good friends.

but i would say it was about girls and jealousy really. and what do people think about some of the reasons why people end up losing their life, whether it is through knife islands or gun violence, over girls orjealousy or disrespect or drugs or a perceived slight, what do you think of that? i think it is devastating and heartbreaking. first and foremost for the victims but then you have a prison full of young men, some young women that have gone out, got ready for a night out and never gone home again and for them it is equally devastating. they don't realise that to carry a knife means they might use it which means they will become a murderer and they are not passed the stage of seeing it in their

pocket, they don't realise the consequences of the choice to carry a knife, they don't think they will become a murderer get our courts are full of murderers now. it is devastating all around. jermaine, you used to be in a gang. what might seem to be a petty insult, how can that accelerate into his body being stabbed to death? ofcom on the show numerous times and spoken about the reasons for the problems and it is like nothing is being done, communities are very frustrated in terms of speaking out, not being heard. this is on a continual basis, the police want to implement strategies but without having positive relationships with these communities. we will talk about that, jermaine but i am asking why something that seems so petty between two rival gangs can escalate like that into murder. these

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need sa is ‘ area w here, id this is how they feel protected. think it is sad that our young people travel around and feel they are endangered. the reasons as a mother and are endangered. the reasons as a motherand an are endangered. the reasons as a mother and an adult for me are petty. when you hear that somebody stabbed somebody and took their life, some of the reasons, itjust shows you that young people don't value life, they don't seem to feel they have a future. they could

possibly end up, there is a backlash, they could end up dead, they feel is no reason to live, when you don't have refuge is easy to be attracted to that lifestyle, they think there is nothing to live for. we're just think there is nothing to live for. we'rejust going to think there is nothing to live for. we're just going to bring you breaking news, the metropolitan police say that a man believed to be in his 40s has been shot dead by police officers in romford. this man, in his 40s, shot dead by police officers in romford, east london. the police were called by a man making threats, this happened at about one quarter to five. dal, you area about one quarter to five. dal, you are a former officer in the met, how much will earn extra 300 officers in the worst affected areas have on

people? can i clarify, i used to live in tottenham. 300 a day, that's what is happening, is that enough? when i was a borough commander we had 32 and a half thousand police officers, we have no less than 30,000, we've had a decrease in the number of community support officers, cressida dick and amber red say that the numbers are not pa rt red say that the numbers are not part of this surge in violent crime. ifind part of this surge in violent crime. i find that quite amazing to suggest that police numbers to make a difference. when police numbers were higher, according to statistics, so was the murder rate. with the

stopping people dealing with individuals involved in drug dealing and firearms. that is a crude interpretation, the reality is that you need police officers but you also need that support in schools. we need to be asking questions of organisations like ofsted. what are they doing. when you look at the ofsted report, there is no mention of knife crime which i think is shocking. helping the people wielding the knife has been excluded? it's still very relevant, victoria. absolutely, but is it once that a kid has been excluded they can effectively be forgotten about. the reality is that there are schools where young people have

carried knives and the ofsted inspection doesn't even mention it. paul, you are a conservative mp, how do you react to these leaked documents which suggest that cuts to police resources have not contributed to this rise in violent crime. london mps from cross-party, we've been in enough to bits when we've been in enough to bits when we've talked about the need for police officers on the street. this is why i'm asking you... sorry, talk over me if you like but can ijust put it to you, this was a document prepared in february in the run—up to the home secretary ‘s launch of this anti—violence strategy, looking at strategies behind the rise in violent crime, cuts to police may have encouraged violent offenders and have likely contributed to a increase in serious violent crime. what i was going to say is that

amber rudd has said there's no direct correlation between the increase in violence and the numbers. there's been a spike in violent crime numbers. there's been a spike in viole nt crime back numbers. there's been a spike in violent crime back in 2008 when there was more money and more police office rs there was more money and more police officers at that time. just to be clear, you are completely ignoring this announcement? i'm saying that you can't correlate specifically the release in violent crime. we need enough policemen on the street to cover the intelligence. 50% of violent crime increases seem to be due to better police recording, and a lot of it seems to be the supply of crack cocaine.

these are real lives. this is not about recording, this is a real reduction in policing. that's reality. stop using it as a scapegoat, extra police officers are not going to help sort out this problem. jermaine, let him finish and then we will be with you, if you talk of each of the bambi can't hear either of you. do finish. 21 wards in haringey, six people on those and because of the cutbacks now some of those wards have got two people. i'm not saying that policing is the solution but it is part of it. you will have a valuable alison does great work going to schools and speaking. and trustee of a charity

where we go to schools and help to making people understand the dangers of carrying knives. all of these have had cutbacks. a lot of those teams are not around at five o'clock in the morning anyway. jermaine, former gang member, know a youth worker. without extra police officers on the streets before and from the communities it hasn't helped, the police don't have a positive relationship with the community so how can you bring about a positive strategy if you don't have that? extra police officers would help this situation that establishing a positive relationship they a scapegoat. when we did have extra police and there was more stop and search the murders are still increasing. young people were still carrying knives and murders were still happening on the streets. what do you think, do you feel safe as

you go about your daily life at the moment? i've lived quite sort of sheltered life so i haven't really dealt with people in tottenham and i don't stay around tottenham much but from what i've seen recently there has been a big increase in knife and gun violence, violence putting a strain on the community and you can see at first hand. a lot of touchy subjects and it is hard for people to arise a true problem. people will contribute to all these violent crimes. why has it been left so long to get so complex? this is not a new problem. i've been talking about the same problems and nothing is being

done. what's being done by the country to solve this? how many times have we come in to tell you the problems first—hand from someone who has lived year, works in the community and lives in it, telling you it isn't helping. what is being done? i think it's because of the ethnicity of the people killed because of it was a different ethnicity it would be more serious, that's what it feels like to me and in our communities. alison. i agree with what you say about them not listening, i was asked to be involved with the latest home office campaign, hashtag knife free, people gave amazing opinions, just the thing is spoken about now, and that's £6,000 down the drain, this campaign and get the people working in the communities, seeing what does and doesn't work, they will think

the communities are stupid. absolutely not. i think there are three stages, firstly you have to ta ke three stages, firstly you have to take the people off the streets that murdering people. i have met people... you are the expert? i'm not, get... people carrying knives should be the last point, the first point should be stopping them. should be the last point, the first point should be stopping themlj should be the last point, the first point should be stopping them. i was talking about things in order of complexity. because that is about policing, that is about giving police the power to do the job they want. the second thing is taking the knives out of the area. that's actually going round shops and making sure they are not on display... the most complicated thing... the

most complicated thing is to break the cycle in the first place. paul scully, thank you. i could hear ann—marie who is a youth justice workers sighing as mr scully was speaking. why? firstly i feel jermaine's prostration. we have been here on so many levels having the same discussions. solutions have been put forward for years. what we are seeing at the moment is almost like a cancer which has been brewing for yea rs like a cancer which has been brewing for years and years and years, and now you are seeing a for years and years and years, and now you are seeing a public manifestation. this situation cannot be taken in isolation outside the context of us living in a violent culture. the cuts have been astronomical. this has to be dealt with on a

multifaceted level. you cannot have more police who do not have a relationship with the community. first and foremost we need to get to the root, the systemic issues. we have to look at how do we as a culture deal with the fact that we are tolerating violence in our cities? how do we as a culture accept that we are tolerating that this is disproportionately affecting a large number of proportionally black and minority ethnic people. in other areas like bath it is affecting white working class people. how are we going to systematically deal with the root issues? we need the right people at the table. we need a long—term infrastructure that is going to deal with family breakdowns, all of the situation is happening in our schooling, we have to come at this, not from a violence perspective, but from a preventative perspective. let me bring in nikki fox croft from labour. lou colvin on twitter says police talk about personal responsibility. —— vicky. she says

the people doing the crime are criminals. if i could just the people doing the crime are criminals. ifi couldjustjump back to some of the things that you said about the youth violence commission that we set up, it is very much about addressing the root causes. early years, intervention, employability, pathways, mental health issues, looking at lessons to be learned from the public health model, looking at housing and local community. looking at youth service work and what works, what doesn't work and what works, what doesn't work in terms of those interventions. this is a big piece of work we have been working on for the last 18 months and it is due to report this summer and i do hope that we are able to have the opportunity to come on again and talk about our report's conclusion. with respect, everything has been looked into. i needed 4.5 years ago when my son's body was in a morgue.

i knew from what i saw with my own eyes and i have said it over and over and over. we have more bodies in the ground, more young people dead, more families devastated forever. the people on the ground working already know this. the problem is, we know it, but it is not happening because it will cost the government millions of pounds. and one last point, last night i was doing some filming in birmingham, and the first group of young people i spoke to, one pulled a machete out of his trousers. he said, i carry this because i know i am not going to be stopped by anyone and i have got a machete. i could not believe it that someone had a machete on them. isaid it that someone had a machete on them. i said if the police were about, would you carry it? no way. i thought, that is a part of it. and with respect to the police, they have caused the rent problems. if they did stop and search in the

correct way in the first place, communities would not be as angry as they are. they will have to work incredibly hard to gain back that respect. we are sending people to prison but it is not solving the prison but it is not solving the prison because we are wasting taxpayers money. they come out and they reoffend in 12 months because they reoffend in 12 months because the prison system fails our people, they fail our communities. these are not new problems. you have heard them repetitively, you're not doing nothing about it because you don't care. lou talked about personal responsibility and we will have a conversation about that because you make a choice about picking up a knife or gun. another person says if uk home office report has concluded that police cuts are big contributing factor than the tory government is responsible for the cuts and they should be held to account. and this tweet says pa rents, account. and this tweet says parents, schools and colleges need to teach responsibility and respect in uk society now. stop and search on kids plus fines for parents if

kids are on the street after 9pm on school nights. there are all sorts of suggestions i have been reading from various people with relevant experience including cu rfews from various people with relevant experience including curfews for example. also young people being banned from social media if they commit violent offences, teaching better decision—making skills and so on and so forth. your views are welcome wherever you are in the country. in the next half—hour of the programme, how do you actually get out of a gang once you are in it? we will talk about that but first, the news. a man has been shot dead by police in east london. firearms officers were called to an address in romford just before four o'clock this morning, following reports of a man making threats and carrying a weapon. just under an hour later, a man was shot dead by police in collier row. the incident has been referred to the independent office for police conduct. syrian state media says one of its military airbases has come under sustained missile attack. a monitoring group said 14 people died at the base

near the city of homs. the united states has denied involvement. the un security council is meeting later to discuss the suspected use of chemical weapons in the rebel—held town of douma — which has been condemned by world leaders. dozens of people died in the attack on saturday. police have arrested a man in his 30s outside buckingham palace. officers responded to reports of a suspicious van near the palace. a scotland yard spokesman said the man was arrested on suspicion of a public order offence. roads in the area have been closed. police say a carbon monoxide leak might be to blame for the deaths of two men in a house in edgware in north london. paramedics took five other people, including two boys, to hospital as a precaution. neighbours say the occupants only recently moved into the property. police are working with the health and safety executive to investigate further. that's a summary of the latest bbc news.

here's some sport now with hugh ferris. hello, good morning. nile wilson has fifth medal of the commonwealth games, claiming the title this morning on the horizontal bar on australia's gold coast. earlier, he had a silver in the parallel bars. a good day for nile wilson and also for alice kinsella. she won a gold on the beam to add to her all—around bronze early on in the games. adam gemili will not be winning a medal of any colour in this afternoon's 100 metres final. he had to pull out of the race with a thigh injury that he sustained in the semifinal yesterday. and another first—time winner of a major, patrick reed claims the green jacket at augusta. all for holders of the major titles

in the sport are american and 27 or younger. more coming up later on but thatis younger. more coming up later on but that is all the sport for now. back to victoria. thank you. we are live in tottenham this morning. we have been hearing from some people about the distressing impact that knife crime has had on their lives. one mum lost her son to a fatal stabbing in birmingham. and also police officers and politicians have their own views on how to stop this uptick in serious violent crime, particularly in london. obviously, the subject of gangs has come up and the subject of gangs has come up and the disrespect between gangs in different postcodes which can lead to murder on the streets. but what happens once you'vejoined one? it's not easy to walk away, even if you've decided that's what you want to do. one charity is targeting gang members in prison, to try and get them to leave their gang lives

when they're released. we've spent some time with a group of men who were taken off london's streets and given a opportunity to try something different. # gotta let it go # the trouble's holding me # i'm gonna let it show # that there's more to me...#. eva brings these horses, for us learn about how to control the motions. when you touch a horse, how do you approach the horse? how do you feel the horse? what kind of stance do you go to the horse? so just knowing about, like, step—by—step, how do approach situations by emotions, and sojust using the horse as a test run. for real life. how did you feel when you did this? well, it was nerve—wracking. i've never been on a horse before, and the only horses we knew was when the police are walking around the estate, so every time i saw a horse it was, like, a red flag for me. ok, so guys, if you make a nice kind of semicircle around me. i'm a victim to knife crime.

i've got friends that are victims to knife crime. i've seen friends die of knife crime. had a close friend of ours, a close friend of mine, that died of a knife crime. i feel like knife crime'sjust... can i be honest? i feel like it is bleep. i really think all these postcode wars, its... i feel like it'sjust a stupid ideology, like, us young boys especially. i'll be honest with you. i'm black, but it's just a stupid ideology. "0h, where are you from?" "i don't know you." "what's your postcode?" "what gang are you?" like, it'sjust stupid, bruv. how many mums have shed a million tears because of their son getting stabbed? you know what i mean? but... if we can change it, i say we change it from primary school, you know what i mean? hit them hard, like, tellthem the street life does not... there's no love in the streets. from about, i would say, 17, istarted making different decisions. i got my head down, i was spending less time in the streets and more

time in the library. and for me itjust all worked out. i ended up going to university in south wales. i studied a degree in politics. growing up in north—west london, there was a lot happening around me. like? a lot of negative things, crime, knife crime. i felt like if you had a knife in your pocket, you're ready to attack at any point. so that just wasn't me, but a lot of kids around me had knives in their pockets from 13, 14. it wasjust that sort of environment. # didn't wanna do 30 years in that zoo... so i'll start off. my name's pablo. interesting football fact is, as a younger

player i was signed and played for chelsea. and if i was a pizza topping, i'd have to be a secret recipe, jerk sauce. mmm! next, please. i wouldn't say pineapple because, you know, pineapple splits opinions. yeah, my man. i would be a chilli, because i'm hot like that. laughter a road man's just lost out here. and a civilian knows what he's doing out here. that's the truth. a road manjust wants the quick cash, quick way. a civilian just wants to live a peaceful lifestyle, and that's the goal. a road man, like... everyone's got their own circumstances. i could neverjudge anyone, like, there's some people that ain't got parents, so they had to hustle, they had to grind. but there's some people, they've had parents, they've been spoilt, but they still want to be a road man. i don't get them people. why are you trying tojump on the road when your parents have provided

you with everything? find a space, 0k? there's cushions, if you want to put a cushion underneath your head. now, close your eyes, if that feels comfortable, and i'm going to take you on a journey, and you'lljust lie there, and as you breathe out you are letting go of unwanted emotions, you are letting go of fear. you are letting go of anger, and then grabbing a pen and the paper that is by your side. let's all write down these things that we are going to release that no longer serve us, but are blocking us and keeping us stuck. and then we are going to put them

in the fire to be transformed. so us, we don't like showing our feelings. it's just one of those, like, we don't show feelings, some of us. so it was easier for us to write it on paper, then go to the top of the hill, make a big fire, and then throw it in the fire and let it evaporate in the air. but, yeah, man, it was good. it was good for me personally because i know what i wrote. i wrote "prison," and when i wrote it down i promised myself, i'm not going behind no steel door again. when i saw that vision go up in the air. i was walking on the high street, late at night. i was coming from my friend's house, and then a car pulled up on me, three black boysjumped out on me, and stabbed me. but i didn't feel the stab until i got home.

took myjumper off, saw like a gash, a long gash, then i went to st george's hospital in tooting, got it stitched up. and then the nurse was like, "shouldn't we call the police to find out?" so the minute she messaged the police, i done a runner. i done a runner, in the hospital. i was on licence prior to that. i got released from prison five weeks prior to getting stabbed, and then boom. ijust knew that i had to leave, ijust knew i had to leave. i know people that have been recalled to prison by being attacked. i'd like you to put your arms out to the side... so how does the horse make you feel, like, now? it's a new experience, man. i feel good, i feel different. yeah? what's the motto? the meaning? change the meaning, change the feeling. trust me, man. exactly. it's all about your mindset, to be honest, man. the more you are able to overcome

all the forces within you — not about other people — the more you can focus on when other people bring to the table. what's that? it's a small horse. that's what i'm saying... it's a pony! pony — that's what it's called. creeper, rapper from birmingham. # i'm just trying to get by... # i'd rather put on a mask and ride when i came out ofjail in 2013, the best thing about it, it wasjust in contact. someone to talk to and to come away from... like, i could come away from birmingham and come somewhere else, and not be involved in stuff that was going on and stuff like that, because at the time as well when i came out ofjail, my friend died. my friend got stabbed and killed, from birmingham. he was called depzman,

he was a rapper as well. he got stabbed and killed, and i was actually there. # and i cannot stay in that cycle... i used to roll with knives, yeah. when i was 16, whatever. but when my friend got killed, when i was in jail, i was thinking, do i really want to hang... like, do i really want to carry a knife? and if i get into a fight, i'm probably going to use it, because you can't really... me, personally, when i get angry i can't control what i'm going to do. i can't think at that time. so i was thinking, if i don't roll with a knife then there's no chance i can stab someone. but if you roll with a knife, you probably think, no, i'm not really going to use it, i mightjust scare someone. that's what you think. i'm not going to use it, i'm just going to scare someone. but if you really get into a proper fight and you've got a knife, you don't know what you're going to do, at the time. so i would say, just don't roll with a knife, and there's no chance you'll hurt someone. there's no chance. his friend, that's on to him, is cousins with his friend. and before you know it you've got friends falling out, over someone dipped his...

drill music is the new phenomenon right now, really. it's quite aggressive, quite violent, quite dark, fast—paced. there's a lot of people who do drill music, but most of it, 99% of it, they're talking about stabbing people and shooting people or whatever. i personally don't think drill music is responsible for all the knife crime that's going on around. people that listen to it, it's a lot of young people that listen to it, like 13—year—olds, 14—year—olds, 15—year—olds growing up and that on the streets. so they're thinking, they're looking up to these rappers, thinking, yeah, i like this rapper, he's talking about this. let me roll with a knife then, or let me try and buy a gun and...

it is, to me, it is bad. knife crime was a big thing way before drill music came about. i don't think it's helping solve the issue, but i don't think you can attribute it to drill music. that's my personal opinion. it's talking about... this, that, push this... it's all music, man. little kids... that's the reason, people actually getting somewhere with it. if they were getting nowhere with it, then people wouldn't be... exactly. but who's letting them get places with this? do you see what i'm saying? how many men got poked up in camden the other day? six. two died. do you know, it's the maddest thing... see the two that died, one of their brothers got killed two months prior to him getting killed, the other day. three boys out of their whole family got killed out of

knife crime. everyone obviously does it because they think they are protected with it, don't they? so everyone weapons up environments for protection, but really it'sjust making it more dangerous. the kids nowadays, though, stabbing has become punching. you see the ones that are like... you can tell they're at risk, i should take them for a day to the prison. that's good. did you see that youtube video? and say, "listen, i got ipp, years ago, because i stabbed someone, just because i wanted a rep." if the little kid will acknowledge that, and see how he's living... when you tell, i wake up next to a toilet every day, that kid's going be thinking, that's not my future, bruv. what made him feel that he has to have a knife or a gun

around him? pride. from selling drugs. it's not pride... it's protection. that's what i'm saying, it's more than that... if you stab someone, you're going to be looking at a prison sentence. if you get caught with a knife, you are looking at a prison sentence. someone stabs you, you're looking at serious injury. in the worst case, death. nothing positive can come from carrying a knife. ijust feel like no one really wants to be sitting in prison, no one really wants to be looking at a life sentence, in one moment. it'sjust a fake game, man, that's all. trust me, man. a lot of young people need to listen to this, man. don't get caught up in this lifestyle. it's not meant for everyone. i tell you that now. it's not meant for everyone. trust me.

we can speak now to some of the people we heard from in that film. eva hamilton who started the charity, and anton who was a drug dealer, mo was actually moved by his family as a teenager, he was moved by his family,. we talked about that this morning but since we have made this film abdi has been stabbed and two separate occasions and the last time was just separate occasions and the last time wasjust on separate occasions and the last time was just on saturday. how is he, has he gone to the police?” was just on saturday. how is he, has he gone to the police? i don't know if he's gone to the police. we haven't been able to talk to him, we know he is ok because his phone was

taken know he is ok because his phone was ta ke n betty know he is ok because his phone was taken betty was stabbed on saturday night when he was out with friends in camden and a couple of weeks ago about to come to work, some people he didn't know went for his neck, he is back at work that this last incident, we don't know. in the film, abdi said, having been released from jail he did not want to go back inside. when part of your conditions of being out on licence is that you are at risk of harm they will put you back in prison and say, you are safe there when it is not the case. you've spoken to abdi? , yes, i spoke last night, he is doing

well, i don't know how it happened, he has changed his life around, people just keep coming back to them, it was sad to hear it,. how difficult is it to get out the gang? it is not like america. it's not like if you've got to leave again you can do something or you will get hurt, you can just you can do something or you will get hurt, you canjust walk you can do something or you will get hurt, you can just walk away. you can do something or you will get hurt, you canjust walk away. simple as that. having a plan after, trying to get out, you have to have a reason, a view to go forward, if you don't have no plan, you can leave a gang right now and tomorrow you will end up going back to it because you

have nothing to do after it. do you see what i'm saying? eva in terms of the people you are helping to turn their lives around how do you measure success. our charity is based on three principles and i think the main one is unlocking people's pain which is what it sounds crazy bringing horses into prisons but we try to unlock the pain that many of these men, including anton, and character mac, — creeper, many of them don't have a father present, they are angry and we consider pain in them. their mothers might have other children as well, i've been to birmingham and spent a lot of time with creeper‘s mum and family. the mothers are trying to look after the other children and the kids go to the states and get into trouble. these mothers need so much support. i say mothers need so much support. i say mothers because most of them seemed to egg tend to be mothers, they need grass roots support, i've been

running this charity for five years, we've kept it quiet, the result are great, we do employability, we're showing them anyway. work is really important, legal money, we've got to show them that clean money is the way forward. not money from transporting drugs, selling drugs... you can't do anything with it, you might have this money but you can't go and buy a car or do something with it because of where you got the money. illegal money isn't the same as legal money, you can earn £10,000 in illegal money but you won't be happy using it because you know where you got it from, but if you got £100 from earning and from working hard you will be the happiest man alive because of the ha rd happiest man alive because of the hard work, you will come across with the money you've got. is that right,

anton? things you learn from the streets are things you can take into a legitimate business and be successful. it depends on the consistency to want to change it, it depends on yourself, wanting to create that option and think long—term. create that option and think long-term. why did you want to change? it comes to growing up. you need to put your clothes down soon, i'm becoming a man, do you know what i'm becoming a man, do you know what i'm saying. that's the past, me going back to wanting to do that after coming out of prison for so long is me becoming younger again. i'm trying to be places in life, not just stay in the same place i was you have to break the barriers in your mind first before you can break the barriers in life. the first

difficulty would be your mind, yourself, it is not people about you, you feel what you have to know. once you are strong with your mind and how you think and feel, you can move forward with life and you can break the barriers in your head and life will fall into place after. if you boxed yourself in and you think i will never get anywhere, you know, your mind, you have basically limited your mind. if you limit your mind, you limit your life. do you say, anton, if you have been a drug dealer, been injail say, anton, if you have been a drug dealer, been in jail and say, anton, if you have been a drug dealer, been injail and got out, if you have turned things around, can anyone? i would say anyone can. it depends if you are willing and you wa nt depends if you are willing and you want a better future. depends if you are willing and you want a betterfuture. when it comes to having groups of people like myself coming together and meant ring of youth and trying to create change, having been through them experiences, it has a great impact, you know? thank you all very much. thank you for your time, i

appreciate it, thank you. more to come from tottenham in the next hour of the programme. before that, let's bring you the weather. good morning. it has been a lovely day with blue skies in some places. but in other parts of the country the rain is very much still with us. afair bit the rain is very much still with us. a fair bit of cloud, some bright and some showers. away from the band of rain it is a mix of bright spells, sunny spells and showers with some showers being heavy and potentially thundery. always cooler down the north sea coastline, especially as we go through the rest of the week. through this evening and overnight, we still have the rain moving west. a wet night across england, wales, eventually northern ireland and southern scotland. under the clear skies in the north—west it will be a cold night. elsewhere, not typically

cold. we start off on a fairly wet note across the far north of scotland. feeling much colder down the north sea coastline as a go through the course of tomorrow with the easterly wind. temperatures 6—8 but the top temperature tomorrow up to about 15. thank you, carol. good morning. we are live in to them, north london looking at what can be done to stem the violence which london has seen in the last few months. the met has opened 55 murder investigations in the capital since 1stjanuary — many involving gangs, guns and knives. so how do we stop people from picking up weapons? if someone carries a knife anyway, they are scared. that is the first thing, they are scared for their own life. i don't think someone wakes up and says, i am going to carry a

knife because i just and says, i am going to carry a knife because ijust want and says, i am going to carry a knife because i just want to and says, i am going to carry a knife because ijust want to be bad ori knife because ijust want to be bad or i want to kill someone or stab someone, or i want to kill someone or stab someone, they are scared. for every death — there is a family left destroyed— we've been hearing from some of those relatives on the programme this morning. it is devastating and heartbreaking. obviously, first and foremost for the victims but then you have a prison full of young men, some young women, who have gone out, got ready for a night out and never went home again. for them, it for a night out and never went home again. forthem, it is for a night out and never went home again. for them, it is equally devastating. a leaked home office document says a fall in police numbers is likely to have contributed to a rise in serious violent crime. this situation, youth violence, cannot be taken in isolation outside the context of us living in a violent culture. the cuts that we

have had have been astronomical. this has to be dealt with on a multifaceted level. you cannot have more policing who do not have a relationship with the community. this morning the home secretary amber rudd will set out her plans for reducing violence crime — and we'll hear from a group of people directly affected by it and ask them what the authorities need to do. here's carole walker in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. good morning. a man has been shot dead by police in east london. firearms officers were called to an address in romford just before four o'clock this morning following reports of a man making threats and carrying a weapon. just under an hour later a man was shot dead by police in collier row. the incident has been referred to the independent office for police conduct. leaked home office documents have said that a fall in police numbers in england and wales is likely

to have contributed to a rise in violent crime. the home secretary, amber rudd — who has been hosting a round—table discussion on violent crime this morning — has insisted there is no evidence to support the connection. labour says the leaked research reveals that she is either incompetent or is misleading the public. syrian state media says one of its military airbases has come under sustained missile attack. a monitoring group said fourteen people died at the base east of the city of homs. the united states has denied involvement. the un security council is meeting later to discuss the suspected use of chemical weapons in the rebel—held town of douma — which has been condemned by world leaders. dozens of people died in the attack on saturday. police say a carbon monoxide leak might be to blame for the deaths of two men in a house in edgware in north london. paramedics took five other people, including two boys, to hospital as a precaution. neighbours say the occupants only recently moved into the property. police are working with the health

and safety executive to investigate further. police who stopped a van outside buckingham palace earlier this morning have said that the incident is not suspicious. a scotland yard spokesman said a man had been arrested on suspicion of a public order offence, but roads in the area have now been re—opened. the hip—hop musical hamilton swept the board at the olivier awards last night. it won seven of its 13 nominations including best new musical. the west end production tells the story of one of america's founding fathers, alexander hamilton. bryan cranston from the tv series breaking bad was named best actor for his portrayal of howard beale in the national theatre production network. the ferryman picked up three awards including best new play, best director and best actress. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30. let's catch up with all the sport

andjoin let's catch up with all the sport and join hugh. good morning. niall hamilton has claimed victory in the horizontal bar final on australia's gold coast this morning. he had already won two golds and two silvers including one silver earlier today in the parallel bars as well. it is another gold for nile wilson. alice kinsella has another gold on the beam, six golds in gymnastics for england. adam gemili has withdrawn from the 100 metres final because of a thigh injury he picked up in this semifinal on sunday. he also will not be able to run in the relay. american patrick reed is yet another first—time winner of the masters. all four holders of the game's major titles are now 27 or under and they

are all american as well. and manchester united midfielder ander herrera has denied spitting on the manchester city badge on saturday. tv pictures show him spitting on a large badge on the floor near the tunnel at the end of the first half. that is all your sport for now. much more coming up at 10:30am. thank you. good morning, welcome to our programme. this morning — we're at the town hall in tottenham trying to get a sense of what needs to happen to stop the violence which has seen over 50 killings in london already this year. thank you for your comments. one person says with their 30 years met experience, if the gang victims survived an attack he never

supported a prosecution and used the scars as a badge of one. luke freeman says gangs use social media asa freeman says gangs use social media as a platform to carry out attacks. young people are employed into gangs before they are employed into a real job. leslie casey on facebook says why not stop and search before they leave home. while parents not taking responsibility for their kids' actions? and another person says treat the carrying of knives or bladed weapons the same as firearms, ie you need a licence issued by police officers. and this person says imagine witnessing your friend or relative being murdered on the street, many young people may be carrying a knife through trauma or ptsd, not necessarily to look for trouble or being revengeful. we have been talking about the impact on families and sometimes the petty reasons behind the killings. relatives are

asking for answers and what the authorities can do to help them. first we can bring the moving interview. this morning we can bring you the very moving first interviews with two families whose son and cousin were killed on the streets of london just months apart. 18—year—old dami odeyingbo wanted to go to university to study cyber security. he left school with good grades and was loved by his three younger brothers. but just days before his 19th birthday... he was killed. so, too, was 36—year—old julian joseph who according to his family "kept himself to himself and was never associated with gangs or violence. " he died just two weeks ago. so, what is it like for the loved ones left behind? our reporter noel phillips has spent time with both dami and julian's family and has been hearing the devastating impact their deaths has had on their lives. our top story today, another night

of fatal violence. four stabbings across london in the spate of 15 hours... to lose a brother, sister, uncle, cousin or son is painful enough. i put my hand on his heart and just each heartbeat grew fainter and just each heartbeat grew fainter and fainterand and just each heartbeat grew fainter and fainter and fainter. when it is the result of violence, the ordeal for some can be unbearable. there we re seven for some can be unbearable. there were seven stabbings yesterday with a numberof were seven stabbings yesterday with a number of teenagers wounded. there have been 51 murders in the capital since the beginning of the year... apple i could not cry, i could not scream. i was just apple i could not cry, i could not scream. i wasjust staring -- i couldn't cry. itjust did not seem real. i could not believe that something like that could happen. this family are living through and unimaginable nightmare. their 18—year—old son, dami odeyingbo, was

reportedly stabbed in january in bromley in south—east london. reportedly stabbed in january in bromley in south—east londonlj could not believe it. all i was doing through the night was not sleeping, just praying, god help me, bring him back. i don't know what they are doing, what they have done to him, butjust bring him back. they watched dami unconscious in hospital covered in blood. they were desperate for him to survive but he died the following day. desperate for him to survive but he died the following daylj desperate for him to survive but he died the following day. i got to the hospital, my boy was already dead. soi hospital, my boy was already dead. so i did not get to speak to him. that broke me, seeing my son on the bed, dead. it broke me totally. all i was just bed, dead. it broke me totally. all i wasjust doing bed, dead. it broke me totally. all i was just doing was crying. we were alljust i was just doing was crying. we were all just crying. i was just doing was crying. we were alljust crying. he was the fifth person to be killed in the capital. dami was like any other teenager. who do you really think should have won in the england and wales game? he loved playing sport, especially

by. he loved playing sport, especially rugby. i want people to remember him as the kind, fun, loving and caring young man. he had dreams of going to university, and was a role model to his younger brothers. university, and was a role model to his younger brotherslj university, and was a role model to his younger brothers. i have lots of good memories about my brother. his younger brothers. i have lots of good memories about my brotherlj wa nt good memories about my brotherlj want people to remember his friendship and how he made people smile when they were sad. it makes me feel proud that he did something good and he inspired a lot of people to do well. dami was killed just six days before his 19th birthday. this family photo was taken on christmas day last year. they never thought it would be their last. he died just 16

days later. we were looking forward to it just the days later. we were looking forward to itjust the week before, and it was gone. we thought we were going to have the best 2018, a very good year, happy year. that is what we we re year, happy year. that is what we were talking about, even on sunday and he died on wednesday. it should have been the happiest year ever, i never knew i was going to be crying over my son, not at all. no, not at all. i think the hardest thing for me is the fact that, you know, i was helpless, i could not do anything to helpless, i could not do anything to help him. i wish i could do something that there is just help him. i wish i could do something that there isjust nothing i could do. he couldn't even hear us because he

couldn't speak to him to hear him. he does not even know that maybe his dad was there, because he was already in a coma. it is sad because we did not even get to speak to him at all. he didn't see us, we did not get to speak to him. we did not get to tell him anything. that is really, really sad. the worst thing that could ever happen, you know, to anyone. his family say he has never beenin anyone. his family say he has never been in trouble with the police but now makeshift shrines are becoming a familiar sights on london's streets. a testa m e nt familiar sights on london's streets. a testament to the violence many people are struggling to understand. it's just the shock. the way that he

went, so violently, it is hard us to comprehend that type of violence on the person, you know. we are never going to get over it but in time, i suppose, it will get easier to deal with. but we are going to miss him. michelle also knows the pain of losing someone, her cousin gillian joseph was the 31st person killed this year, on march 13 he was allegedly attacked on a bus in south london, he suffered serious injuries and spent 11 days in intensive care. i was on my knees praying, and my knees. the hardest thing i've ever

had to watch. then they took the tubes out. and you could tell that he was not there any more. his hands started to move. and his face contorted and bit, i was holding one hand, my cousin was holding the other and i was praying, i was like, ju, other and i was praying, i was like, ju, it's fine to me you can go, be happy, you know. it was so hard. and then they took the tubes out. and he stopped breathing. he stopped struggling. and um ijust put my hand on his heart and just each heartbeat grew fainter and fainter and fainter. and ijust put my head on his chest, i wasjust and fainter. and ijust put my head on his chest, i was just holding and fainter. and ijust put my head on his chest, i wasjust holding him and told him it was ok. this is

julian with his dad in 1983. the 23—year—old did not live to see his son grow up. his dad was stabbed to death back in the 1980s. it feels like a familiar nightmare re—occurring. like a familiar nightmare re-occurring. it does, it'sjust total disbelief. they both died at a very young age. they had their whole lives ahead of them. julian's dad had just become a father for the first time. he was cruelly taken away from his son. not only are you grieving, but you are struggling to find enough money forjulian's funeral. because they are not cheap, you know. you don't expect to be burying someone so young. the

generosity of the family and friends, we are so grateful for the support, we really are. we're really grateful for the support. and support, we really are. we're really gratefulfor the support. and um... is really tough, really. michelle struggles to finish a sentence. no one feeling her pain could. her cousin, she says, was never involved in gangs or violence. and beautiful soul, and adorable shining example and a source of inspiration to many people. it's a struggle to describe her feelings, instead people. it's a struggle to describe herfeelings, instead she now people. it's a struggle to describe her feelings, instead she now writes them down. taken away from as so soon, he will be terribly missed by

many. the police investigation into the death continues but in the meantime his family is determined to send a message to other parents. we just want other parents to speak to the kids, to stay away from trouble. when something like this happens it doesn't just affect one when something like this happens it doesn'tjust affect one person, you know, it has a ripple effect. the wider effect. it affects the pa rents, wider effect. it affects the parents, the siblings, the extended family, friends, society. we any parent to go through the we are going through now. noel pain we are going through now. noel phillips reporting. we can now speak to some more relatives who have lost loved ones to knife crime.

cheyanne mcdonald is 15 years old and the niece of tyrone silcott, a 42—year—old man who was stabbed to death in hackney last month. a man has been arrested in connection with his death, so we can't talk in great detail about her case. also with us isjessica plummer. her son shaquan sammy—plummer was also stabbed to death after a house party in enfield in 2015 when he was 17. his killer was sentenced to at least 24 years in prison. thank you so much for talking to us. cheyanne, your mum has given her permission. smack you to talk to us. you were very close to your uncle — tell us about him. he helped people a lot. he never said no. he was always the person that people enjoyed being around. he

was a family guy. he was just a person that you enjoyed being around because he made you feel happy as a person, he was close to pretty much all of his friends, and people loved him. how did you first hear that something had happened to him?” him. how did you first hear that something had happened to him? i was sleeping when my mum came into the room and she was like, someone killed your uncle. i was confused at first and then i started a process it, she was panicking, i was panicking, then she left and she went to see where he died, and on that day, like my family changed. we have become more close to each other. we have become more open as well. i would say that in a way, this death has helped us to become a unitand to this death has helped us to become a unit and to be together. jessica,

cani unit and to be together. jessica, can i ask you a really difficult question which is to try to explain to our audience what it is like to lose a son. it is hard, because you don't really know what to do. you don't really know what to do. you don't really know who you can trust. it's like, i live in a day when i am locked in a bedroom. i play games, watch a camera watching people walking by, they walk by everyday. sometimes i will go out, sometimes i need to go out when i know those schoolchildren are around, i tried to avoid them. it's

in my mind. i tried to avoid going outside because of sirens on the ca rs outside because of sirens on the cars because i remember the way the police came, the blues ireland was on all the time so i avoid it, i live in fear for my children because i've got a 23—year—old, she doesn't live with me any more and i've got an 18—year—old, he's still a live with me any more and i've got an 18—year—old, he's stilla bit confused and still not talking because he is still grieving. i don't know what to say to him sometimes. most times he will save money, i had a dream about shaquan. and he will say that things are not just in my head, and i will cry but then i'll go back downstairs into my room. the room is like a place for me,| room. the room is like a place for me, igo room. the room is like a place for me, i go to the cemetery and i find it so difficult because i am leaving my son behind. i know he is dead but

in my mind he is not, he's still gone away but i still expect him to walk through the door, i don't know why. most days i look up to god, a lot of people don't have faith in him buti lot of people don't have faith in him but i do. this is why i'm here to talk with you. what do you want to talk with you. what do you want to say to people getting involved in this kind of violence? what i mean to say is, as the community it is important we get together. it is very important. we have all different organisations but unless we all come together and try to get to the root of the problem it will never go away. because to the root of the problem it will never go away. because everybody is all talk, talk, talk and i'm getting fed up of the talking. we need more action. like what. communities coming together, organisations

coming together, organisations coming together, organisations coming together and trying to work to see if we can get to the children. we need to engage with them. we need to go to the schools. a lot of them say there is no problem and there is a problem in school because we have year for children carrying knives to school. what do you think about that?” think it's wrong. we parents need to pay more attention. yes, we ask the police and the government, we want them to get involved, i do talks in schools, i was able to change one child, if i'd change one child it's a tremendous bonus, with these children, they need us, they need us. they are looking for love in the wrong way. you understand? older people not really trying to engage with them. no, we cannot criticise

them. we need to show them love, i'm going in there because i last my son, my son is in heaven, now it's about me engaging with them so i don't look at them like they are someone else's child, like my own andl someone else's child, like my own and i feel really good because i leave the school feeling happy that i was able to change a few children. let me bring cheyanne back in, sorry jessica. what impact does it have on yourfamily when jessica. what impact does it have on your family when you lose someone your family when you lose someone you are so close to? i will start with my mum because she was really close to my uncle. he was like a husband, brother, cousin, he loved

her, they did everything together, it was like a part of her being lost andi it was like a part of her being lost and i know that my mum as a part of thatis and i know that my mum as a part of that is lost and then i feel sad as well because of a part of this lost imight bring well because of a part of this lost i might bring heras well because of a part of this lost i might bring her as well. looking out for her means a lot to me. making sure she is ok and looking after my siblings makes me feel ok as well. jessica, your son went to a party and didn't come home, what was going on that night that led to his stabbing? don't know exactly. i'm only going by what i heard in court. the person who took my son to the party, he was dating the by's girlfriend, the sister of jamal williams. and i think shaquan spoke to jamal's girlfriend but they said

jamal's sister called jamal and askedif jamal's sister called jamal and asked if it was ok but she did not respond back and then they called back again. it's like, now you are hearing everyday bits different, a different story where you don't know what to believe, i don't know... is something trivial read to the man who was having a party to get ice and basically attack... nine all i know is that shaquan got to the door. he said he didn't know shaquan and the two friends there said you know him, you know who he is, you've seen know him, you know who he is, you've seen him. because jamal had already smoked and drank whatever rum, whatever he drank. what punishment has your son's killer being given. 24 years life without parole, he has

to serve the 24 years before he can come out and the judge says he has to be ona come out and the judge says he has to be on a licence when he comes out. but he showed no remorse. nor his mum. she was shouting in court, isa lie, his mum. she was shouting in court, is a lie, it's a lie. and i'm going to appeal, she said. she did appeal straight after. and then i went into court, the trial was the april, she put in the appeal and we have the appeal, no december one 2016. i went iwent on i went on my own. two friends came along. they had it via video link. his behaviour was horrible.” along. they had it via video link. his behaviour was horrible. i want to ask you if you want to say it has got to stop now, no more. no more, it has to stop. it is horrible. the

paini it has to stop. it is horrible. the pain i feel. this is why i am trying my best and i am not going to stop, lam going my best and i am not going to stop, i am going to carry on with my young children, because i have my son. my son is suffering. tracy hanson lost her son through knife crime as well and tracy has not had nojustice and i must say that, nojustice for her son. she was able to help my son andre along with christa brown and she has an organisation. she works with children. people need to know that these people are out there helping. tracy got no acknowledge mint, nobody appreciated what she did. everybodyjust mint, nobody appreciated what she did. everybody just ignored mint, nobody appreciated what she did. everybodyjust ignored her but she is helping my son and she is going through the same pain and suffering like me. thank you so much both of you. god bless you and thank you for allowing me to come in. not at all, i know it has been rehired. jessica, thank you. in the next

half—hour of the programme we will talk specifically about home secretary's anti—violence strategy which she is launching today. she is due to speak at about 11:30am which you will hear on bbc news. time for the latest news — here's carole walker a man has been shot dead by police in east london. firearms officers were called to an address in romford just before four o'clock this morning following reports of a man making threats and carrying a weapon. just under an hour later a man was shot dead by police in collier row. the incident has been referred to the independent office for police conduct. leaked home office documents have said that a fall in police numbers in england and wales is likely to have contributed to a rise in violent crime. the home secretary, amber rudd — who has been hosting a round—table discussion on violent crime this morning — has insisted there is no evidence to support the connection. labour says the leaked research reveals that she is either incompetent or is misleading the public. syrian state media says one of its military airbases has

come under sustained missile attack. a monitoring group said fourteen people died at the base east of the city of homs. the united states has denied involvement. the un security council is meeting later to discuss the suspected use of chemical weapons in the rebel—held town of douma — which has been condemned by world leaders. dozens of people died in the attack on saturday. police say a carbon monoxide leak might be to blame for the deaths of two men in a house in edgware in north london. paramedics took five other people, including two boys, to hospital as a precaution. neighbours say the occupants only recently moved into the property. police are working with the health and safety executive to investigate further. the hip—hop musical hamilton swept the board at the olivier awards last night. it won seven of its 13 nominations including best new musical. the west end production tells the story of one

of america's founding fathers, alexander hamilton. bryan cranston from the tv series, breaking bad, was named best actor for his portrayal of howard beale in the national theatre production network. the ferryman picked up three awards including best new play, best director and best actress. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. here's some sport now. hello, hugh. hello. nile wilson has won a fifth medal of the commonwealth games and a third gold as well, claiming the title in the horizontal bar on the gold coast. he had earlier added a silver in the parallel bars. the great week for him and also alice kinsella. she won a gold on the beam this morning to add to an all—around bronze early on in the games. adam gemili will not be winning a medal of any colour in

the 100 metres final. he had to pull out of the race with a thigh injury he sustained during the semifinal race yesterday. and ander herrera has denied deliberately spitting on the manchester city club badge. the fa has decided not to investigate the incident. that is all the sport for now. thank you. amber rudd has been holding a round table meeting with the head of the metropolitan police cressida dick and the london mayor said it can't. ican and the london mayor said it can't. i can introduce you —— sadiq khan. i can introduce you to some people

here in tottenham town hall. sefton isa here in tottenham town hall. sefton is a former gang member who started selling drugs at the age of eight. he now works for gangs line — a helpline and prevention service for anyone involved with gang culture. also back with us is raspect, who works with young gang members via his group gang — guiding a new generation. he is also in contact with the families of some of those who have been killed in the last few months. jessica is still with us. jessica lost her son who was fatally stabbed ata lost her son who was fatally stabbed at a party three years ago. cheryl devonish is back with us, tottenham resident. nicole is here, cheryl's daughter, ann—marie, a youthjustice

consultant. robin lockha rt daughter, ann—marie, a youthjustice consultant. robin lockhart sits on the victims reference grid. and we have lee jasper with offers well, a former policing adviser to the ex—mayor of london ken livingstone. iam going i am going to ask you about some suggestions. one suggestion is a ban on posting knives. sefton, what do you think? solutions are pretty simple. you have got to love people, you have got to show love. we are living in a loveless society where no love is being shown. no one says hello when you walk past them on the street. we'll so need to go into

primary schools doing crime prevention and changing the culture that we are living in. so at what age would you go into a primary school, to six—year—olds, seven—year—olds, eight—year—olds? seven. who agrees with that? think we start at three in areas where there is exceptionally high violence. there is a need so that people begin to learn empathy, emotional compassion, emotional intelligence is developed, as well as their academic skills, helping them to read or write, said by the time they get to school they have had the additional input. by key stage one or two you have children going into school, throwing chairs, swearing at teachers. that is coming from the home environment. what are these children seeing and learning at home. it tells you that the

parents need some support. sorry to interrupt, i have joined parents need some support. sorry to interrupt, i havejoined a foundation which rebecca introduced, postcode parent and postcode pen pal. this is engaging with children in school. they are writing to a different borough and making friends so we can cut that postcode thing. by so we can cut that postcode thing. by starting with the young ones, they will learn. what you think about that idea, writing to each other in different borough ‘s? writing to each other is all right but i feel like there needs to be an actual process of community making up actual process of community making up the youth so the brixton and peckham youth should be linked up from nine years old, wherever these postcode rivals are happening, we should be going into the primary schools and making sure the children are linked up, we should be taking them to paintball in different places and creating that link among them. to show them that someone in

hackneyis them. to show them that someone in hackney is the same as a kid in brixton? absolutely. andrew, what do you think about that idea, linking up you think about that idea, linking up kids at a young age or going into schools aged three and trying to develop that emotional intelligence. absolutely and in terms of uniting the postcodes, i remember one youth clu b we the postcodes, i remember one youth club we held in hackney which had quite a reputation, and we had kids from all postcodes coming. because they came with that specific purpose, to enjoy themselves and they had a loving environment, there we re they had a loving environment, there were no problems, absolutely no problems, despite the concerns of the local police. with regard to working with kids at a young age, one of the things that has worked is if you look at scotland's violence reduction unit. what they have done is they have stopped treating it as a policing issue and started to treat it as a public health issue. that is right, we did a

report on our programme injanuary. just to explain, or what they have donein just to explain, or what they have done in scotland, is since the middle of the last decade, they have reduced knife crime by an astonishing 70%. they said, if you persist we will arrest you but if you want out we will get you some training, access to jobs, you want out we will get you some training, access tojobs, housing and mental health issues. should that be rolled out in england and wales ? that be rolled out in england and wales? in scotland it was ongoing and sustainable. that is what is missing here. we cannot have knee jerk piecemeal actions. we need communities to come together. in life we get more that we focus on. we have been doing anti—knife, and the gang, anti—violence, we need to focus on teaching empathy, teaching emotional literacy, teaching peace, teaching communication skills.

better decision—making. teaching communication skills. better decision-making. get rid of the deficit model where you can only engage with young people when there is something wrong. you have to have a multilevel multifaceted approach. one of the things is changing the actual culture and context of violence and saying how do we introduce a culture of peace, how'd we look at situations? it goes back to what sephton was saying about love. simple basic human needs, love, respect, honour, and from a very young age, dealing with this from a preventative aspect. we cannot deal with this from a one size fits all. we have to go with the symptoms. we have to move things from a reaction conversation to a resolution conversation. the whole community have to step up and take responsibility. but let me be absolutely clear, no amount of funding from the government is going to save our children from violence, if the community does not step into the space. it is not that we are a

poor community, it is that we choose to spend our money in the wrong places are resting the wrong things. if we started investing in our own community to provide alternative strategies for gang exit programmes, we would gain more respect from our young people and we would gain more respect from wider society. the community must step up. does everybody agree with that?” community must step up. does everybody agree with that? i know quite a few organisations that are already working, there are loads of people out there doing good work, there are loads of people in our community doing fantastic work. can ijust community doing fantastic work. can i just say community doing fantastic work. can ijust say something, community doing fantastic work. can i just say something, it is all well and good we have the organisations, i have got an organisation in memory of my son, but what i am saying is, we need to all come together. stop all the talking and show more action. the children are looking for love, they are looking for it the wrong way. i'm in a school, i go in

a school with the police and all i am saying is come together. with that the organisation aside for a while and focus on the children. 0k. i started something called unity together. we are stronger already. i think the key thing to this is me, my brother here, we are who you are talking about. we you are talking about. i have been shot at, iwas stabbed, i was a prolific persistent offender. i was very violent. violence was my thing, that is howl lived my life. i violence was my thing, that is howl lived my life. lam violence was my thing, that is howl lived my life. i am the person that you are talking about and what is neededis you are talking about and what is needed is someone like me to do meetings with every single person and give all my information into them. you can put out as much as you want, but if you don't understand gangs then you ain't going to get it. i'm going to put out a couple

more things and you are going to respond to this, is going to be illegal to possess weapons like zombie knives and knuckle—dusters and a ban on the sale of the most dangerous acid products, the police will be able to seize acid from anyone carrying it without a good reason, how do you respond to this. most of that, they do it anyway. what i'm saying is, jermaine was on the show earlier, he's from the area, he and i have had beef before, it's going to be people like him, thatis it's going to be people like him, that is what gang is, i don't know if we are ex—gang members. different gang members have come together from

different ends, north, east, south, west, we are taking back our youth and taking back the streets.” west, we are taking back our youth and taking back the streets. i want to put to use something that david lammy, the mp says, all it takes is a gift of trainers and a 12—year—old is asked to carry a package and before long he earns more in one week than his parents earn any year. how would you stop him or her from doing that? stop people coming to our communities and buying recreational drugs at the weekend. these people are being sent out to different areas, it's notjust in your area. it goes back to the poverty. it goes back to the fact that they live on estates that apply presence, it goes back to the fact that an education system has failed us, when we are in primary school we wa nt to us, when we are in primary school we want to be doctors and astronauts

but between your seven and year 11 something changes. i've witnessed it for myself, as a parent governor, it's like children, take the thing, that child becomes a problem child so that child is labelled for the re st of so that child is labelled for the rest of his life, he will leave the school and you have children at the age of four in a pupil referral unit. i think it's wrong. age of four in a pupil referral unit. ithink it's wrong. one moment, hold on. we are all talking year. but the truth is, we have the solutions. if we have the solutions all we need to do is come together and do it. getting frustrated, it's not working. can i say, this is not

a black problem. this is a problem asa a black problem. this is a problem as a whole in society, we've got a lot of black families, the kids are doing really well, they are going to um, doing really well, they are going to uni, or ideally, why don't we show those images, where are the positive images of our young black people? where are they? not any. 98% of images of our young black people? where are they? not any. 9896 of all black kids didn't get in trouble la st black kids didn't get in trouble last year at all, they didn't come into contact with the criminal justice system, yet if you believe the media who come here to fill airtime, what they are interested in... lee, you don't want is to not report a murder? anna turley when we see the media, when someone is already dead. —— i will tell you when we see the media. it's when someone is already dead. but things are quiet we get little media action

but when someone dies the media turns up and the more people who died, the more the media. these children assume more political importance in death than in life.” think there's a lack of media representation for young people especially young people of colour. a lot of my friends are doing well and we never see about lot of my friends are doing well and we never see about it, you see mainly black people on the media when someone has died some and is a gang. it is not fair. this is not true of our programme. it's absolutely not true of our programme, i'm absolutely not true of our ro r absolutely not true of our programme, i'm sorry! lets not get sidetracked. we're talking about solutions. what i can say is, ok i lost my son in 2015 to knife crime. he was studying. he got five offers from a uni. he was due to start university in september and then i had my daughter, she was in her second year in university when my

son got stabbed. she took almost nine months off university. she graduated last year, september, with honours in science and she did biochemistry. and i've got once is that did not finish but christa and tracey took him under their wing and they are helping him. the problem will not be solved if every time we argue and argue and fight each other. we are not sending a good message to the young ones because they will look at us like all they're going to say is, they are adults and they are arguing, what example of a setting? go on, sephton. and that's what i'm doing now. and i'm really upset, i'm actually really upset that i'm just sitting here, and i'vejust said that i've been to jail seven times... and nobody acknowledged it? and i've said all i've said and

everyone and i've said all i've said and everyone has said what they want to say, when actually everybody is affected by it that i and others are the actual ones that are out here doing it and in it. you know. so you've got to listen to us. and you're not listening. you are hearing, it's going into your ears, but you are just doing everything else. you're still not listening. you are all butting in! that's the problem. i said the first thing that needed to happen, you should all have just listened to that, and done it. i said love was the first one. the next and is this, cross—border meetings with all different organisations, police, whoever it is, and flannel our information of the streets, gangs understanding what we are into each organisation,

to do effective change. that's it. you could do so many different organisations that the death toll is rising every year so that shows that you are pimping out the gangs. you are just getting funding, that's all. you are not doing anything. so come to the gang members, the people who know. annemarie. i really hear sephton's point. we are on the same side. totally in agreement with sephton. there are people that are going to be able to infiltrate directly because they have lived it and breathes it. you have the other side to other mothers and fathers and uncles who have buried children and uncles who have buried children and lived and bigoted. you have the enforcement, the officers who have lived it and breathed it in a different aspect. i know because i was one. i worked in the area 20

yea rs was one. i worked in the area 20 years ago was one. i worked in the area 20 yea rs ago because was one. i worked in the area 20 years ago because young people said to me, we've got no representation on the inside. i know what it is to cut young people down from gang and poverty and mental health issues, cut them down from hanging with my bare hands. i know what it is to be on the street mediating between a young monk phoning me and saying, this is the situation, i'm about to be shot —— a young man. two o'clock in the morning on a street no one knows about mediating between gang members, asking can we negotiate peace, can we bring some love into this situation now? without having a strategy that unites people and one voice or one banner we are going off in ten different directions. you will be cross with me but i am going to throw in things other people have suggested by want your suggestions. sarahjones, suggested by want your suggestions. sarah jones, labour suggested by want your suggestions. sarahjones, labourmp suggested by want your suggestions. sarah jones, labour mp for croydon, chairman of the all—party parliamentary group on macron suggests young people who commit violent offences should be banned

from youtube, facebook and instagram, would that make any difference? here, we're going to work together, right? listen, we're going to do this, canjust stand? we stand united. we stand together. united we stand together. we are taking back our streets and our young people. and they are going to know they are not alone. we have a zero tolerance message for violence. we're talking to our community members, join with us. it's one voice! we will dispel the myth of violence. we are coming with love and peace and we those big strong as one voice solutions. unity. only together. —— we will speak strong

with one voice. you know my position, i work with police but at the same time today, south kensington, four o'clock, everyone is saying that we need to come together and then everyone goes today guards and no one sees anything. four o'clock today in south pennington will be taking over the roads again, this time we are not reacting to deaths, we are doing prevention is better than cure. we're doing outreach to the community to see what links we can make. next we will do west london sebjewell make. next we will do west london seb jewell have done make. next we will do west london sebjewell have done north south east and west so we will keep the momentum going. we are fed up with the talking. we are going out in the streets doing all we can do. these our children and we are taking full responsibility for them. we are not deviating, we are not hiding. we are not saying our children, we need to save them, all parents of my age group believed to step up and step out. people are doing great work

undercover but right now we need the whole community to save our children. no amount of help from the government will save our children because that cannot buy them the love they need. we need to do that, we love our children, let's save them. this is why there will be places like instagram, but is where you'll see the voice of the youth, the voice of our community. we need to ta ke the voice of our community. we need to take back control. you will see people talking powerfully now.” will pause and i will thank you all very much coming the programme. utility! thank you to sephton, nicole, andrew, lee, and thank you for your company in the uk. i think the conversation will go on here. we'll be back tomorrow at nine

o'clock. thank you for watching. good morning, a real mix of whether this morning. for some areas, good morning, a real mix of whether this morning. forsome areas, rain, for others, some sunshine, and her many of us we have had falk which is gradually clearing, still quite misty in shropshire, this picture is from a weather watcher. we've got that mist and fog, it will clear to give sunny spells across most of south—west england, scotland and northern ireland, here solskjaer was developing. rain over the south—east of england continuing into this afternoon, it will be patchy, maximum temperature is 11—14dc. tonight we'll see rain in the south—east continuing to spread north west, followed by heavy opposes of rain into the night, that train is moving into southern scotland, the east of northern

ireland and temperatures overnight down to 4—7d. tuesday will see a wet start, the rainbow can gradually clear, sunny spells in the south—east, that means temperatures could reach 15 or 16 celsius. bye bye. this is bbc news, and these are the top stories developing at 11am. syria and russia blame israel for an overnight attack on a military airbase near the city of homs. falling police numbers may have contributed to a rise in serious crime, according to a leaked home office document. if someone carries a knife anywhere,

they are scared, they are scared for their own life. i don't think someone their own life. i don't think someone wakes their own life. i don't think someone wakes up their own life. i don't think someone wakes up and says i'm just going to carry a knife because i wa nt to going to carry a knife because i want to be barred for i want to stab someone, want to be barred for i want to stab someone, they are scared. police shoot and kill a man in romford in east london — officers say he claimed to have a gun. also in the next hour — the latest action from the commonwealth games.