the international condemnation of the suspected chemical weapons attack in syria. at an emergency meeting of the united nations security council, the us said it will take action regardless of whether the un takes action or not. mark zuckerberg will testify in front of the us congress for the first time next week. he says that the company did not do enough to stop data misuse. and donald trump has branded the raids on his personal lawyer's a disgrace. it included files relating to the payment of $130,000 to the pawn star, stormy daniels. payment of $130,000 to the pawn star, stormy di strand of right—wing find a powerful strand of right—wing populism, fuelled by suspicion and immigration. my guest is sivjensen, finance minister and the leader of the right—wing progress party, a partner in norway's coalition government for the past five years. how does populism work in a country rated one of the world's richest and happiest?

sivjensen, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. i guess labels are inevitable in politics, and ijust described your party, the progress party in norway as right wing and populist. do you accept that label? no, it is not a populist party, it is libertarian. we focus on free trade, market orientation, lower taxes, less states, individualfreedom. yeah. i know that that is the origin

of your party, but it seems to me in recent years increasingly, you and your party, have honed in — in a populist fashion — on the issue of immigration. well, now, immigration is an important issue to my party, as it is in many countries in europe and that has to do with the fact that we have seen a lot of migration and to some extent, it has been damaging into many countries‘ economies. so what we have done in norway is that we have... it hasn't been damaging to your economy, you have got one of, if not the strongest economy in europe. yes, for the time being, it is boosting, it is doing well. it was hit by the oil price shock in 2014, that affected us very much and at the same time we had the flow of migration also to norway, which meant that we had to tighten the immigration policy

and now we have control. so we have less people coming into norway than before, which means that we can concentrate on integration, which is very important to secure oui’ economic growth in the future. in that sense, you acknowledge that immigration has been a key plank of your platform over the last few years. it's been a very important part, yes. in that way, commentators both in norway and beyond do see links between the strength of your party and the rise of people like marine le pen in france, the afd in germany, which are hitting the same hot buttons when it comes to playing upon people's fears of immigration. we don't play on people's fears, we talk about the obvious, that we need to have control on our borders and ensure that we have a better immigraiton policy, it means that when people arrive in norway and maybe need to live there for the rest of their lives, they need to learn the language, they need to get a job and provide for themselves and their family. i think that's quite obvious.

that's not scary talk. if you don't play up on people's fears, why did you refer to the "sneaking islamisation" of european society, a few years ago? because it's true. islamisation of european society? well, this is a debate that goes everywhere. i disagree with the label you have put on my party. we are libertarian, but are also concerned about immigration, that's why we are tightening the policy and it works in norway. if you reject notjust the label of populist, but that you play on people's fears, how did you respond when your party colleague sylvi listhaug who recently resigned as minister ofjustice, when she was a minister in the coalition before and was immigration minister, she said this: "we are fully aware that there are wolves in sheep's clothing, fundamentalists who hate our norwegian system are coming to exploit our boundless norwegian naivete." and you say you don't play upon people's fears?

yes, i think this is something that takes part in the public debate every day. it's something that we need to adress. and that is why we have taken this seriously. do you, like your colleagues, see immigrants as wolves in sheep's clothing? no, i think basically, the majority of immigrants living in norway are behaving very well. they are well integrated, they go to work every day and learn the language and take part in norwegian society. what we need to avoid is that there are people not integrated and we have our fair share of that, an increasing problem, especially if we want to make sure that we have sustainable economic growth also in the future. we will definitely get to economic growth, because you are finance minister, but you are leader of the progress party because i need

to stay with the immigration debate, because it is important in your country and europe. and also the uk. when you talk about sneaking islamisation, remind me, what percentage of norway's population is muslim? i really don't know. it's roughly 4%. the point... how can that be islamisation when 4% — one in 25 of your people are actually muslim? it's actually something of great concern to many of us around the world. we've had increasing problems with radical islam, many of us are actually taking part in controlling the is in syria, so this is an increasing problem and some of these people are returning back to their original country. they're representing a threat to us and this is something we need to take seriously. sure, but we're talking about norway, we're not talking about syria. norway has 200,000 or so people who are muslim. are you suggesting to me that you see them as fundamentally a security threat, a threat within your midst in norway? we have never said

that all muslims... so what is this wolf in sheep's clothing thing? we have never said that all muslims are a threat to norwegian society, what we have been addressing is radical islam as an increasing problem to our society and to the western world and i think this is something to take seriously and to be very clear, if we politicians do not take part in these debates, i think that is more dangerous actually. debate has to be had, i'm sure. this is your contribution. this was on facebook more than one year ago. you talk about integration, which you say is very important. you say, "we have a big challenge now, to integrate those who have permission to stay in norway, we have to make sure they respect norwegian values." then you go on, "it is not allowed to beat your children in norway, here we eat pork, we drink alcohol, we show our faces and you must abide by these values, laws and regulations

when you are in norway." are you suggesting that muslims in your country have a proclivity for beating children? what we are addressing are issues that people talk about in the public life. we have discussions on many of these issues every day. do you believe muslims beat their children in a way that other cultures do not? no, i don't believe that. so, why the reference to beating children? the point is that we want to make sure that everyone who wants to live in norway lives by a certain set of standards. that we can face each other, that we can talk to each other. that we can help each other, and that we can take part in the same society. this is the basic rules. it's tone, i am sure, without a doubt, you do not believe that norwegians are required to eat pork or drink alcohol, but again, why lay out those things as fundamental norwegian values when you know that the signal you're sending is that somehow

muslims, who of course don't eat pork and many of them don't drink alcohol, can't be proper norwegians? we have been very, very clear on that. as i said, not all muslims are a problem at all. as i said, most muslims living in norway are behaving very well and are well integrated, and we know they contribute a lot to our society. but i still believe it is important for us to address issues concerning immigration, concerning radical islam, and we will continue to do so. i believe your party, the progress party, is pushing for a ban on the full face veil, notjust in places of education, but in all public spaces across norway. that's my party's stand but the government has now put forward a proposition that concerns the education place and kindergarten. and you want to go further, just as you want to tighten up immigration further. that's my party standards, but we are very happy that we are now launching these changes that we are

actually talking about. ijust wonder if it gives you pause for thought when you see the latest oslo police report recording a very serious significant increase in the number of reported hate crimes, they've increased deal and the police say the biggest increase we see is amongst women being insulted in the category of religion and most specifically, islam. i just wonder whether you might see a link there between your parties preoccupation with banning the full face veil and the fact that there is a very significant rise in hate crimes directed at muslim women. well, first of all, let me say that hate crime is not acceptable at all and it's very good that the police is reporting and they do something about it. i think all norwegians should be very, very careful about this because hate crime is not acceptable whatsoever. you had a bit of a political crisis in your party and in the coalition in recent months concerning a woman

that i already mentioned, sylvi listhaug, the minister ofjustice, and she, as i understand it, was pushing for legislation that would give the authorities in norway the right to strip individuals suspected of terrorism or being associated with jihadism, strip them of their rights to norwegian citizenship without any judicial oversight or review. now, the labour party, the opposition, opposed her plan. she then posted on facebook a picture of masked men in military fatigues with ammunition and weapons and she said this, " labour thinks terrorist rights are more important than our nation's security, please like and share." what did you think of that? first of all, i'm very glad that she apologised for putting post on facebook because it was over the top. that said, the proposal she referred

to was the government's proposal, that did not pass parliament. no, because labour wouldn't accept it. it didn't... they do not have the ability to have a joint majority by themselves. it did not pass parliment. that's democracy. yes, it is. she decided, as far as labour is are concerned, they took a stand on what they considered to be an abuse on constitutional values in norway. this colleague of yours, in your party, basically said that labour was siding with terrorists. first of all, the proposal that you refer to was the government's proposal. but the post she put out on facebook, she apologised for and i am glad she did because it was over the top. do you believe your party has room for people like her in it? yes, i do. so an apology is fine? the fact that she... there is something sensitive here.

many of our viewers and listeners might not remember, but in 2011, a terrorist — a norwegian terrorist attacked a youth camp, a labour party youth camp and killed dozens of young people. so the labour party is particularly sensitive to accusations that it is the terrorists‘ friend and betraying norwegian values. so, i'm just wondering what she would have to have said, for you to say to her you are no longer acceptable in my party. first of all, the terrorist attack that hit norway was terrible and the government has spent a lot of time securing our society after that. i think that's been very, very important for us to do. secondly, i think it's a good thing for any politician, if you go wrong, if you say something that you shouldn't, that you have the ability to apologise for it. i think that is actually something that more politicians should do and i'm glad she did. so, that's why we have moved on, but she resigned and a new minister ofjustice was actually

appointed yesterday. one more word on this, and i want to move on. can you see her coming back into the norwegian government? yes, in the future, yes i can. let's move on. she is actually a very, very good politician with a brilliant future ahead of her. let's talk about norway and the eu. there is much discussion of it because you are not in the european union, but you are in the european economic area, which gives you full access to the single market and customs union. it comes at a price because you have to pay into the eu and you have to abide by roughly three quarters of eu rules and regulations. a fundamental part of your economy is governed from brussels. do you, in the progress party, think that is a sustainable status quo for norway? well, the progress party is in favour of the ea agreements, but we're against us moving towards being a member of the eu.

we've had two referendums in norway and, both times, the majority of the population said no tojoining the eu, but i think the ea agreement has very broad support in norway because we are — the european market is the most important market to norway. but isn't it fundamentally antidemocratic? because many of the rules and regulations and laws that govern the way, certainly, the norwegian economy works are made in brussels and you have no voice whatsoever in setting those rules and regulations. well, it's true that our voice is weaker than it would have been if we sat at the table but i think, that said, we have more flexibility without being a member than if we were a member, but the ea agreement has a lot of support in norway, also in the parliament, huge majority is in favour of it, it serves us well, especially

since it gives us access to the single market, which is very important to a small, open economy like the norwegian one. yeah, well... it's interesting in britain to look at norway because we, of course, took a decision through a referendum to pursue the track of brexit. yes. and brexit is going to happen, according to the government. now, there is discussion about whether we should pursue she said be careful because our type of connection with the eu is going to be difficult for britain because then, brussels will decide, without the brits being able to participate in the decision—making process. from your perspective, you just said we're a small country. do you think, for britain, the kind of deal that you have with the eu would be appropriate? i don't think i should give advice on how brexit — the results of brexit should be for the uk. this is something that you have to negotiate with the eu side

and find your solution to it. i think, our experience with the agreement since 1994 has been very good. there is, of course, from time to time we have a debate also in our country on making certain changes to the agreement and so forth, but the overall picture is that it serves us well, very well. it would be a big problem for you if britain does what some call the hard brexit — that is leave the eu ultimately without a full—fledged trade deal and without agreeing to participate in the single market and the customs union. in that case, norway, which has britain as its biggest trading partner, would be in a very difficult place, wouldn't it? let me say that, the bilateral relationship between norway and the uk is excellent and it will be, no matter what happens with the brexit deal. but you don't quite know that because you don't know what the trading relationship

with the uk and the eu will be and as you're part of the european economic area, you're governed by what the eu decides do. yeah, of course. we follow the ongoing negotiations from the side with interest, of course. but i think the norwegian relationship with the eu side will not change with brexit, and our relationship to the uk will not change, except the fact that we need to make some formalities through legislation, we need to have more bilateral agreements between the two countries and so forth, but i'm very, very sure that we will be able to sit down and negotiate that. what if britain gets a more favourable deal with the eu than you've got? i.e britain perhaps is required to pay in less or britain has more freedom to operate outside the rules of the eu than you do, and yet gets the advantages, most at least of the advantages

of frictionless trade with the european union? would that move norway to want to renegotiate its own deal with the european union? i think i don't — this is not the time to speculate in that. i think, first we will have to see the outcome of the ongoing negotiations. but i can say that we are very happy with the agreement that we have because it serves us well, and then we are concerned with, with solving the aftermath that needs to be resolved between us bilaterally after brexit, and i'm sure that we are perfectly able to do so. we have already started the discussions with the uk on this... your former european affairs minister said hard brexit will affect norway dramatically, as dramatically as any eu member state. i mean, there is a sense of alarm building in norway, is there not? ithink... what we need to do is to... we need to just accept the outcome of the negotiations between the uk and the eu.

it's nothing that we can do anything about, but i think that this can be resolved and i'm sure that there will be a good result when it comes, when we see the result in the end. before we end, i would like to ask you something else — directly responsible, you are, as finance minister, for overseeing in government the sovereign wealth fund, a massive $1 trillion oil fund that norway has developed and nurtured over many years. last year was pretty unusual, because i think it was the first year that actually, your outflows from the fund exceeded the new money coming into the fund. now, your opponents in norway say that there's profligacy in the finance ministry, that you're overspending this very important, valuable legacy for norway's children's futures. well, that's not entirely correct. we have a 3% spending rule, that we have been way below ever since we took office, but it is true, for the last couple of years, we've had an expansionary fiscal policy to get us through the aftermath

of the drop in oil prices. now, we see our economy picking up. growth is above trend, already this year and also next year. unemployment has come down, employment is increasing. so all figures show that it has been good for us. well, the leader of the opposition labour party says that it's a result — this what he calls profligacy — is a result of a right—wing populist party in government, they overspent our children's savings while giving tax cuts to the wealthy norwegians living today. he also lost the elections, but let me say the fund is growing, the fund is growingevery year, it's getting bigger and bigger, and we put aside a lot of money for future generations at the same time as we invest in future growth today by lowering taxes, by investing in infrastructure, by investing in research and development, and education, i think those are the most important

areas to invest in, and we do that within the sound framework of the spending rule of the fund. norway's wealth is built on amazing reserves of oil and gas. it is very striking therefore that many in your country are now talking about the need to divest the sovereign wealth fund from investments in oil and gas. do you favour that? well, wejust had a proposition that we are considering for the time being, but i think... do you favour it? you're finance minister, it's rather important to know what you think. we are looking into that now and we have not made any decision on that, but what we do is, we already diversify the fund. the fund is invested globally, it's a diversified fund. we are in several thousand companies globally, in many different areas, and that's how we need to invest the fund. i suppose it raises a question, though. norway, built on oil and gas to a certain extent. in the long run, the world economy is trying to decarbonise, it's trying to wean itself off fossil fuels. does that, in the long—term, present a fundamental challenge for norway? no, and i think norway will continue to be an oil and gas producer producer for many, many decades.

do you? yes, we will. but... you say that happily, even though the world is committed to decarbonisation? but we also need to reorientate our economy, we need to invest broader, because we experienced very clearly what could happen after the oil price dropped in 2014. we needed to diversify our economy and that's what we're doing for the time being, but we will still be an oil and gas producer for decades to come, but at a lower speed than we have been for the decades behind us. and we have known this for a long time but it's — this is an important industry to norway and we are proud of it, and it's also producing with — quite, quite well, i would say. alright, sivjensen, we have to end there. 0k. but thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. thank you very much indeed.

hello again, good morning. west wales, the far south—west of england saw the best of the temperatures and sunshine on monday but for the many other parts of the uk, it was rather dull and misty. we saw rain developing more widely across england, pushing into wales and that continues to work its way northwards but the most of us, disappointing temperatures this week. a lot of cloud and some rain at times. easterly winds are setting up so it will always be better towards western parts of the uk. at the moment our weather map is dominated by large area of low

pressure which is not going anywhere at all, picking rain up from iberia and pushing it towards france and heading it towards our shores. so the rain developing works way northwards away and eventually from the far north—west. wetter weather later for northern ireland. cloud behind that, rather misty in the hills as it brightens up across the southern parts of england. with sunshine, it will get a bit warmer with heavy showers around as we continue into the evening. 0vernight, rain moving away from northern ireland scotland. the next area of rain comes in around our area of low pressure, originating from germany originating across the low countries and heading towards england and wales. some uncertainty about whether rain will be on wednesday. at the moment more likely across the midlands and wales and possibly into northern england. drier for scotland and northern ireland. not too bad for the north—west of scotland at eastern scotland and northern england, low cloud, mist and drizzle

with low temperatures. sunshine across southern counties of england, with temperatures into the midteens easily. stronger winds in an easterly wind, always stronger across the northern half of the uk with high—pressure blocking things from scandinavia with low pressure across france maintaining that easterly flow. not much wind further south across the uk, a bit of sunshine and it shouldn't feel too bad. not much of that, mind you. heavy rain developing in the south—east later on and further north, it's always going to be the eastern side of scotland and north—east england which will be dull and damp and still quite cold as well. the same weather pattern, low pressure to the south of us, high pressure to the north and across scandinavia keeping the stronger easterly winds this time, more for northern and eastern areas of scotland where we will see some more rain developing probably on friday pushing across northern england for a time. brighter further south. some warmth when the sun does come out with the potential for showers across england and wales. quite a range of temperatures for most of us. a disappointing week ahead into the weekend. more likely to be wet and windy

for northern and western areas of the uk, warmer and drier and brighter into the south—east. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: president trump meets with military advisors. he says major decisions would be taken within 48 hours on what action to take after the suspected syrian chemical attack. the fbi raids the offices of president trump's personal lawyer. mr trump calls it a disgrace and a total witch hunt. i'm lebo diseko in london. also in the programme: in the coming hour china's president, xijinping, is expected to address the issue of a potential trade war with the us. and, as scientists discover increased snowfall in antarctica, what does it mean for global warming?