tv HAR Dtalk BBC News April 10, 2018 2:30am-3:01am BST
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for the suspected chemical attack regardless of what the united nations decides. president trump said a major decision will come within 48 hours. russia has warned that us military action in syria could cause "grave repercussions". there's been sweeping international condemnation of the suspected chemical attack on douma in syria. the us ambassador to the united nations, nikki haley, told an emergency meeting of the security council that syria's president, bashar al—assad, bore responsibility for what had happened. president trump says a raid on the office and home of his personal lawyer is a disgrace. fbi agents seized documents from michael cohen which included files relating to the payment of $130,000 to a porn star, stormy daniels. the washington post claims mr cohen is under investigation for finance violations. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hartog. i'm stephen
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sackur. —— hardtalk. ethiopia is africa's second most populous nation and has big ambitions to be a dominant regional power. it also has a new leader, abiy ahmed, who has pledged to heal internal divisions after years of authoritarian rule. my guest is neamin zeleke, one of the leaders of an ethiopian opposition movement which has embraced armed resistance to the addis ababa government. how real is the threat of conflict inside ethiopia? neamin zeleke, in washington, dc,
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welcome to hardtalk. thank you. would you agree with me that given the appointment of a new prime minister, this is a moment of hope and opportunity for ethiopia. yes. we see some opportunities and definitely hope. but the challenges and to the political crisis facing ethiopia are enormous. he has on his way, too much complex problems to tackle. so, there is hope and there
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is an opportunity if he uses it, if he has the political will to use the opportunities to make substantive political and economic reforms. the reforms may come but should we pause forjust a moment and reflect on how symbolically important it is that here we have and who is, first of all, the first muslim to be leader of ethiopian it also, a man who comes from the ethnic part of the country and therefore breaks the monopoly on power that has been held by the two gradients inside the ruling coalition for the last quarter century or so? which you accept that this indicates a wind of change sweeping through your country? well, first of all, this is not the first time in a sneak leader
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is in power. of course, he may identify himself primarily as ethnic. second, according to the information we have, he came to the home as a chairman and subsequently prime minister as a result of internal struggle within the ruling aprdf and is apparently among those wanting some reform of measures within the ruling aprdf. if he follows through, there is hope for the country. ifi may... keep in mind that aprdf are still the
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dominant authoritarian party and he is the leader of the party. here is something he said around the time of swearing in of new pm. he said, "i apologise wholeheartedly to the families of human rights defenders, politicians, the change is seeking youth whose lives were snapped at a young age and all of those who were subjected to psychological and physical crises". that apology changes the atmosphere somewhat, does it not? it does, to a degree. the regime has been known in the past to make public apologies after committing crimes, at a ‘s and
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violations in various parts of ethiopia. this is not particularly new for the leaders of the current very scary and regime to apologise. —— authoritarian. very scary and regime to apologise. -- authoritarian. it's notjust words, though. it's also actions. under the outgoing pm, we saw hundreds of political prisoners released and in the first days of the new pm, we have seen more releases. 11anti—government bloggers and journalists who were jailed in march during clashes and security sweeps. they were released including well—known online activists from the zone nine group including two journalists who are well—known in as oppositionists. again, i wonder whether you are
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being a little gloomy and a bit of an naysayer when some really important different things are happening inside your country. yes. there are some changes. we see some glimmer of hope and opportunity is going forward but let's take, for instance, what you just said. the release of political prisoners. you know what happened ? release of political prisoners. you know what happened? after they released hundreds of political prisoners, they rearrested the most prominent one including the one you mentioned. yes but they have let him out again. to begin with, with all due respect, all of these political prisoners should not have been put in prison. they didn't commit any crime. their only crime was to be a
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journalist like you and political dissenters like me. these authoritarian, deeply authoritarian, brutal, regime. imprisoned, in the past, dozens of political prisoners in ethiopian. there wasjust past, dozens of political prisoners in ethiopian. there was just a few that when released. we still believe there are thousands of political prisoners throughout ethiopian in many regions of the country. so that is due change. criminalisation of dissent has to end. the authoritarian regime —— regime the eprdf has instituted hass to be repealed and the state of emergency has to be lifted. all of these measures would indicate what you say. there is hope and opportunity. is not the message of what has happened over the last 18 months,
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two years or happened over the last 18 months, two years 01’ more, happened over the last 18 months, two years or more, that civil disobedience, mass peaceful protest on the streets of ethiopia's towns and cities can work and that you quys and cities can work and that you guysin and cities can work and that you guys in exile who call for armed resistance, have not been the agent and vehicle of change, it is the people inside the country committed to peaceful resistance who have achieved this change. first first of all, we have an outfit in exile. keep in mind, it is also on the ground. where in many parts of ethiopia, all movement works not only through our struggle but part of the strip —— civil disobedience that you mentioned. we espouse not only a struggle but we will embrace all forms of struggle. with respect, you are an organisation which is
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deemed a terrorist organisation and is outlawed inside ethiopian. as i understand it, you, inside the country, operate within a secret cell structure. you are not the people who has been on the ground organising the protests on the streets, the protest outside gas stations and other forms of civil disobedience because you are a secret cell structure, and organisation. my point is there are groups like the group in 0romo who have been on the streets, active youth movement, who have achieved real change. no. i think you youth movement, who have achieved real change. no. ithink you have your information wrong. we are on the ground, yes. we are branded as a terrorist. but we do have structures inside ethiopian undertaking and organising civil disobedience. not
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only self defence, armoured undertakings it also civil disobedience. yes, it is true that the 0romo areas and other groups are organising and living this civil disobedience but we are there as well. we are in many parts of the country parts of this process. your movement and e0 as i understand it had committed. you've made last may a commitment to depose the government by any means necessary. you talked to me about armed resistance. yes, yes. by any means necessary. armed resistance is not what has been happening in ethiopian in terms of pushing the government to release prisoners and change course. it is civil disobedience and are you not laying into the hands of the hardliners in the ruling
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coalition when you talk about deposing the government by any means necessary? when we say by any means necessary , necessary? when we say by any means necessary, it means all instruments of struggle. all forms of tactics. that includes armoured struggle. we have armoured movement in the northern part of the country and we also believe civil disobedience, economic embargoes and boycotts of all kinds to blunt the region's arsenals. shuey road and weekend the pillars of its repression so we believe in all forms of struggle when we say by any means necessary. we cannot exclude civil disobedience asa we cannot exclude civil disobedience as a very potent weapon to weaken the regime and to organise the people. these protests to depose the region. where is your leader? he is
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currently in eritrea. yes. and eritrea of course, long—time hostile enemy of ethiopian. it doesn't look good, does it? and i know you go to eritrea, too. when you spend all of your time not eritrea, too. when you spend all of yourtime not in eritrea, too. when you spend all of your time not in ethiopian and not a lwa ys your time not in ethiopian and not always in washington that much of your time always in washington that much of yourtime ina always in washington that much of your time in a country which is the most hostile enemy of ethiopian. eritrea is the most hostile enemy of the region, ethiopian. we disagree on that one. this regime, especially the dominant peoples liberation front has worked to fight against previously regime. so, why would it
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be wrong for us to work with eritreans? it makes me wonder about where your interests really lie. how much money to the eritrea government give your organisation?” much money to the eritrea government give your organisation? i cannot speculate on that. they give us money but they harbour thousands of all freedom here's —— freedom fighters in eritrea because that is the only safe place. this brutal regime, in many countries, can you, sudan —— can you. it kenya. the safest places eritrea. but they give you money, do they? they may, they may. i'm not going to speculate that amount. they definitely support our freedom fighters. you don't deny
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that they give you money. freedom fighters. you don't deny that they give you moneylj freedom fighters. you don't deny that they give you money. i deny. i just told you. there are thousands of our freedom fighters, they harbour them and they shelter and its many thousands. according to the un monitoring group, its many thousands of dollars a month and to you and your fellow leaders of ginbot seven and arms and training camps inside are a trio. i'm wondering how this sounds to the ethiopian people. —— eritrea. wondering how this sounds to the ethiopian people. -- eritrea. we are the most popular organisation, one of the most popular. we have millions of supporters in ethiopia. i don't know if you have your information correctly or which versions of the report, there are various reports from various
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entities that you are reading but we have the support of ethiopian and the ethiopian people don't see eritrea and people as enemies. it is the region that has been at loggerheads and also wants to have hostile intentions to us, eritrea and the eritrea and government. see you take the side of eritrea against your own government? it is not our own government. 0ur your own government? it is not our own government. our own government is one that we, the people, are left underfree, there is one that we, the people, are left under free, there are a election is one that we, the people, are left underfree, there are a election is, our government. this is a dictatorial, tyrannical, brutal, minority regime that has captured the state and the economy to benefit a few tigrayan elites. cronies. this is not our government. until we, the ethiopian people like you in britain underfree ethiopian people like you in britain under free and fair elections are left our leaders, this is not our government. that is the sentiment of
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the majority of ethiopians. government. that is the sentiment of the majority of ethiopiansm government. that is the sentiment of the majority of ethiopians. it seems to me that you are going to have a problem if dr abiy, to me that you are going to have a problem if drabiy, in to me that you are going to have a problem if dr abiy, in his role as prime minister, does what he stated, to enter the years of misunderstanding is with the eritrea in government and to that end, we will play our part. you are going to be in big trouble if the ethiopian government reaches out a hand of friendship to eritrea because you will be bargaining chips and you and your fellow leaders of ginbot7 may find yourselves without a home. —— home. -- we will see when we get there. first of all, the minority regime has to withdraw. there is a long—standing ruling by the coalition which is the flashpoint of the dispute and conflict that led to that of bloody war to eritrea but
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thus far, the regime has not withdrawn from the sovereign territories of eritrea. that will be a difficult undertaking for the region because most tigrayans consider the region to be part of eritrea. and another word about e.g. it, a country that does not have a good relationship with ethiopian, not least because of disputes about the waters of the nile. you are taking money and support from egypt as well. that is the narrative and the fiction of the region. we never took money and weapons from a jeep. if it serves our rent to have democratic order in britain, any
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government, don't you think it is a double standard ? your government, don't you think it is a double standard? your government any government serves their interests. 0ur interests are democracy, justice and equity in ethiopian. that is why you have these protests throughout ethiopia for the last three years. so long as it serves our purpose, we will do it but we have not accepted any form of assistance from egyptians. so that it's a strange statement you'd said to me, we will accept any assistance from anybody but terrorists. you conduct terrorism yourselves. that's what the regime says. under tyranny... hang on, let me... justified... morally justified to hang on, let me... justified... morallyjustified to defend yourself with your families are being tortured, when your sisters are being gang raped, when yourfather
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is being humiliated and murdered. that is what has been happening and this minority regime supported by those who claim to champion democracy and freedom throughout the world, including the uk. if you want to claim that you are better than the government in ethiopian, i don't see how it helps for your people claiming loyalty to you to launch bomb attacks... you interview... hang on, hang on. our leader was among the victims thrown in jail. the leaders of the cud. they tried their best. many who formed ginbot7 we re their best. many who formed ginbot7 were the leaders of the cud. they tried their best peacefully. and this region doesn't understand peaceful struggle. so you think it is acceptable to launch gun and bomb
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attacks that killed dozens of people? no, we don't believe in terrorism or promote terrorism. we conduct self defence measured —— measures, armed activities in self defence and that is a right under international law. self defence, defending yourself and your families from brutality, atrocity bordering genocide, ethnic cleansing, that this brutal minority regime has undertaken throughout ethiopia, it isa undertaken throughout ethiopia, it is a right to defend yourself, don't you think? what would happen, let me ask you, if the ira from ireland came and took over britain, captures all the economy, irish people, only 4 million out of the 60 million, they control the economy, they control the military, the security, what would you feel? and you as a journalist? how do you react? are you not playing with fire here? we
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know that ethiopia's ethnic mix is, to put it bluntly, fragile. we know that when you accuse the government of being a front for tigrayan security and intelligence interests, thatis security and intelligence interests, that is going to inflame ethnic tensions given a mix of peoples in your country. it seems to me when your country. it seems to me when you tweet things like this, and i'm going to quote a tweet of yours from just a month ago. you said, give me death or give me liberty. either we live with freedom and equality or oppression, injustice live with freedom and equality or oppression, in justice and servitude under this brutal fascist tyranny, will be the option. you are laying things out in a way which seems to me, leaving only one way and that is to the kind of terrible civil war that we have seen in syria, for example. we don't want a civil war
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in ethiopian, we want peace, we want stability, we want prosperity but with justice, freedom, stability, we want prosperity but withjustice, freedom, like you a lwa ys withjustice, freedom, like you always said in britain or any western democracy. we want this unacceptable, brutal, tyrannical order to go. we need freedom, we need justice, we need equity. it is a known fact now internationally that 6% of the population, if you read all the reports recently, that have been written by various journalists, western journalists included, for the first time, they are admitting that people who claim to represent 6% of the population out of 100 million have captured the state, the security, the military and the economy. and that's the truth. my last question, to avoid
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the possibility of terrible violence inside your country, are you not now have to give dr abiy, the new pm, a chance to lift the state of emergency, a chance to develop a dialogue with the opposition, a chance to release the political prisoners? give him a chance? yes. we will give him a chance, we have stated, in no uncertain terms, we haveissued stated, in no uncertain terms, we have issued a public statement in interviews by our chairman, we are willing to give a chance provided dr abiy, the prime minister, delivers what he has pledged. reconciliation, national dialogue and institution constitutional democracy and all the substantive political and economic reforms that the people of ethiopian
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expect, yes, we will give him a chance. all right, with that thought in mind, we must enter that —— this interview but neamin zeleke, thank you for being on hardtalk hello again, good morning. west wales, the far south—west of england saw the best of the temperatures and sunshine on monday but for many other parts of the uk, it was rather dull and misty. we saw rain developing more widely across england, pushing into wales and that will continue to work its way northwards and for most of us, disappointing temperatures this week. a lot of cloud, some rain at times. easterly winds are setting up so it's always going to be better towards more western parts of the uk.
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at the moment, our weather map is dominated by a large area of low pressure which is not really going anywhere at all, picking rain up from iberia and pushing it towards france and heading it towards our shores. so the rain that's been developing continues to work its way northwards through the day, away eventually from northern england up into scotland apart from the far north—west. some wetter weather later for northern ireland. some cloud behind that, rather misty in the hills as it brightens up across the southern parts of england. and as we get some sunshine, it will get a bit warmer but it could trigger some heavy showers around too and will continue into the evening. 0vernight, that rain moving away from northern ireland and scotland. the next area of rain comes in around our area of low pressure, originating from germany, moving across the low countries and heading towards england and wales. some uncertainty about exactly where the rain is going to be on wednesday. at the moment, it looks more likely across the midlands, wales, possibly into northern england. should be drier for scotland and northern ireland. again, not too bad for the north—west of scotland but across eastern scotland, north—east england, higher and fret, low cloud, mist and drizzle really low temperatures as well.
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get some sunshine again across southern counties of england, those temperatures getting into the mid—teens quite easily. stronger winds in an easterly wind, always going to be stronger across the northern half of the uk, high—pressure blocking things off from scandinavia, low pressure across france maintaining that easterly flow. not much wind, though, further south across the uk, so we get a bit of sunshine, it shouldn't feel too bad. there won't be too much of that, mind you. some heavy rain developing in the south—east later on and further north, it's always going to be the eastern side of scotland and north—east england which will be dull and damp, still quite cold as well. still the same sort of weather pattern, low pressure to the south of us, high pressure to the north and across scandinavia, keeping the stronger easterly winds this time, more for northern and eastern areas of scotland where we'll see some more rain developing, probably on friday, pushing across northern england for a time. a little bit brighter further south. some warmth when the sun does come out but still the potential for some showers across england and wales. so quite a range of temperatures for most of us. a disappointing week ahead into the weekend.
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it's more likely to be wet and windy for northern and western areas of the uk. warmer, drier and brighter in the south—east. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories — president trump promises a forceful response to the suspected chemical attack in syria. his decision is expected soon. we are studying that situation extremely closely. we are meeting with our military, and everybody else, and we'll be making some major decisions over the next 2a to 48 hours. russia rejects calls for an independent inquiry but america's ambassador to the un points the finger clearly at syria's allies. we must not overlook russia and iran's roles in enabling the assad regime's murderous destruction. the international community must not let this happen. facebook users are told whether they are among the 87 million whose personal
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