this is bbc news — our latest headlines. " locked and loaded". america tells syria it's ready to strike again after yesterdays attacks on suspected chemical weapons facilities jeremy corbyn has said he would sanction operations in syria only if they had the un's approval. the conservatives have pointed out that russia would inevitably veto such action. sir martin sorrell, the founder and head of the world's largest advertising group, wpp, has resigned — less than a fortnight after the company announced it was investigating an allegation of personal misconduct. two teenagers have been arrested following a serious road traffic collision in essex. three people remain in hospital, but none of the injuries are life threatening. more than 500 australian firefighters with support from aircraft are tackling a huge bushfire threatening homes in the southern suburbs of sydney. now on bbc news it's time for hardtalk.

the outside world tends to view scandinavia as a haven of prosperity, progressive politics and social liberalism, but look closer and you find a powerful strand of right—wing populism fuelled by a suspicion of immigration. my guest is sivjensen, finance minister and the leader of the right—wing progress party, a partner in norway's coalition government for the past five years. how does populism work in a country rated one of the world's richest and happiest? sivjensen, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you very much. labels are inevitable in politics, and just labels are inevitable in politics, and ijust described your party, the progress party in norway, as right wing and populist. do you accept that label? no, it is not a populist party, it is libertarian. we focus on free trade, market orientation, lower taxes, less states, individualfreedom. yeah. that is the origin of your party, but it seems to me in recent years increasingly, you and your party, have honed in — on a populist fashion — on the issue of immigration. immigration is an important issue to my party, as it is in many countries in europe and that has to do with the fact that we have seen a lot of migration and to some

extent it has been damaging into many countries economies. so what we have done in norway is that we have... it hasn't been damaging your economy, you have one of, if not the strongest economy in europe. it is good, it is doing well. it was hit by the oil price shock in 2014, that affected us very much and at the same time we had the flow of migration also to norway, which meant that we had to tighten the immigration policy and now we have control. so we have less people coming in to norway than before, which means we can concentrate on integration, which is very important to secure economic growth for the future. in that sense, you acknowledge that immigration has been a key plank of your platform over the last few years. a very important part.

in that way, commentators both in norway and beyond do see links between the strength of your party and a rise of people like marine le pen in france, the afd in germany, which are hitting the same hot buttons when it comes to playing upon peoples fears of immigration. we don't play on people's fears, we talk about the obvious, control on our borders and ensuring we have a better immigraiton policy, it ensures that when people arrive in norway and maybe need to live there for the rest of their lives, they need to learn the language, get a job and provide for themselves and their family. that is obvious. that is not scary talk. if you don't play up on people fears, why did you refer to the "sneaking islamisation" of the european society, a few years ago? because it is true. islamisation of european society? i disagree with the label you have put on my party. we are libertarian, but are also concerned about immigration, that is why we are tightening the policy and it works in norway. if you reject notjust

the label populist, but that you play on people's fears, how did you respond when your party colleague sylvi listhaug who recently resigned as minister ofjustice, when she was a minister in the coalition before and was immigration minister shi and was immigration minister she said this "we are fully aware that there are wolves in sheep's clothing, fundamentalists who hate our norwegian system are coming to exploit our boundless norwegian naivete." and you say you don't play upon peoples fears? yes, this is something that takes place in the public debate every day. it is something we need to adress. and that is why we have. you, like your colleagues, see immigrants as wolves in sheep's clothing?

the majority of immigrants living in norway are behaving very well. they are well integrated, go to work every day and learn the language and take part in society. what we need to learn is that there are people not integrated and we have our fair share of that, an increasing problem, especially if we want to make sure that we have sustainable economic growth also in the future. we will get to economic growth, because you are finance minister, but you are leader of the progress party because i need to stay with the immigration debate, because it is important in your country and europe. and also the uk. when you talk about sneaking islamisation, remind me, what percentage of norway's population is muslim? i really don't know. it is roughly 4%. the point... how can that be islamisation when 4% — one in 25 of your populatin is muslim ?

it's actually something of cgreat concern to many around the world. it's actually something of great concern to many around the world. we have had increasing problems with radical islam, many of us are actually taking part in controlling the is in syria, so this is an increasing problem and some of these people are returning to their original country. they are representing a threat to us and this is something we need to take seriously. sure, but we are talking about norway, not talking about syria. norway has 200,000 or so people who are muslims. are you suggesting to me that you see them as fundamentally a security threat, a threat within your midst in norway? we have never said that. what is this wolf in sheep's clothing thing? we have never said all muslims are a threat to norwegian society, what we have been addressing is radical islam, as an increasing problem to society and the rest of the western world and i think this is something to take seriously and to be very clear, if we politicians do not take

part in these debates, i think that is more dangerous actually. debate has to be had, i'm sure. this is your contribution. this was on facebook more than one year ago. you talk about integration, which is say is very important. you say, "we have a big challenge now, to integrate those who have permission to stay in norway, we have to make sure they respect norwegian values." then you go on, "it is not allowed to beat your children in norway, here we eat pork, drink alcohol, show our faces and would you must abide by these values, laws and regulations when you are in norway." are you suggesting that muslims in your country have a proclivity for beating children? what we are talking about are issues that people talk about in public life. we have discussions on many of these issues every day. do you believe muslims beat their children in a way that other cultures do not?

no, i don't believe that. why this reference to beating children? the point is that we want to make sure that everyone who wants to live in norway lives by a certain set of standards. that we can face each other, that we can talk to each other. that we can help each other and that we can take part in the same society. this tone, i am sure, without a doubt, you do not believe that norwegians are required to eat pork or drink alcohol, but again, why lay out those things as fundamental norwegian values when you know that the signal you are sending is that somehow muslims, who of course don't eat pork and many don't drink alcohol, can't be proper norwegians? we have been very, very clear on that. as i said, not all muslims are a problem at all. as i said, most muslims living in norway are behaving very well and are well integrated and window they contribute a lot to our society.

but i still believe it is important for us to address issues concerning immigration, concerning radical islam and we will continue to do so. i believe your party, the progress party, is pushing for a ban on a full face veil, notjust in place of education, but in all public places in norway. the government has now put forward a proposition that concerns the education place and kindergarten. and you want to go further, just as you want to tighten immigration further. that is my party standards, but we are very happy that we are now launching these changes that we are talking about. i wonder if it gives you pause for thought when you see the latest 0slo police report, recording a very serious significant increase in the number of reported hate crimes, they have increased a great deal and the police say the biggest increase we see is amongst women being insulted in the category of religion and most

specifically, islam. i wonder if you might see a link there between your party's preoccupation with banning the full face veil and the fact that there is a very significant rise in hate crimes directed at muslim women. first of all, let me say that hate crime is not acceptable at all and it is very good that the police is reporting on this and they do something about it. i think all norwegians should be very, very careful about this because hate crime is not acceptable whatsoever. you had a bit of a political crisis in your party and in the coalition in recent months concerning the woman i mentioned earlier, sylvi listhaug, the minister ofjustice, and she, as i understand, was pushing for legislation that would give the authorities in norway the right to strip individuals suspected of terrorism or being associated with jihadism, strip them of their rights to norwegian citizenship without any judicial oversight or review. the labour party, the opposition,

opposed her plan, she then posted on facebook a picture of masked men in military fatigues with ammunition and weapons and she said this, " labour thinks terrorist rights are more important than our nation's security, please like and share." what did you think of that? first of all, i am very glad that she apologised for putting that post on facebook because it was over the top. that said, the proposal she referred to was the government's proposal, that did not pass parliament. no, because labour wouldn't accept it. they do not have the ability to have a joint majority by themselves. it did not pass parliment. that's democracy.

she decided, as far as labour are concerned, they took a stand on what they considered to be an abuse on constitutional values in norway. this colleague of yours, in your party, basically said that labour was siding with terrorists. first of all, the proposal that you refer to was the government's proposal. but the post she put out on facebook, she apologised for and i am glad because it was over the top. do you believe your party has room for people like her in it? yes, i do. so an apology is fine? the fact that she... many of our viewers and listeners might not remember, but in 2011, a terrorist — a norwegian terrorist — attacked a youth camp, a labour party youth camp and killed dozens of young people. so the labour party is particularly sensitive to accusations that it is the terrorist‘s friend and betraying norwegian values. i am wondering what she would have to have said, for you to say to her you are not

longer acceptable in our party. for you to say to her you are no longer acceptable in our party. first of all, the terrorist attack that hit norway was terrible and the government has spent a lot of time securing our society after that. i think that has been very, very important for us to do. secondly, i think it is a good thing for any politician, if you go wrong, if you say something that you shouldn't, that you have the ability to apologise for it. i think that is actually something that more politicians should do and i am glad she did. that is why we have moved on, but she resigned and a new minister ofjustice was actually appointed yesterday. one more word on this and i will move on. can you see her coming back into the norwegian government? yes, in the future, yes i can. she is actually a very, very good politician with a brilliant future ahead of her. let's talk about norway and the eu.

there is much discussion on it because you are not in the european union, but you are in the european economic area, which gives you full access to the single market and customs union. it comes at a price because you have to pay into the eu and you have to abide by roughly three quarters of eu rules and regulations. a fundamental part of your economy is governed from brussels. do you, in the progress party, think that is a sustainable status quo for norway? well, the progress party is in favour of the ea agreements, but we're against us moving towards being a member of the eu. well, the progress party is in favour of the ea agreements, but we're against us moving towards being a member of the eu. we've had two referendums in norway and, both times, the majority of the population said no tojoining the eu, but i think the ea agreement has

very broad support in norway because we are — the european market is the most important market to norway. but isn't it fundamentally antidemocratic? because many of the rules and regulations and laws that govern the way, certainly, the norwegian economy works are made in brussels and you have no voice whatsoever in setting those rules and regulations. well, it's true that our voice is weaker than it would have been if we sat at the table but i think, that said, we have more flexibility without being a member than if we were a member, but the ea agreement has a lot of support in norway, also in the parliament, huge majority is in favour of it, it serves us well, especially since it gives us access to the single market, which is very important to a small, open economy like the norwegian one. yeah, well... it's interesting in britain to look at norway because we, of course, took a decision through a referendum to pursue the track of brexit.

yes. and brexit is going to happen, according to the government. now, there is discussion about whether we should pursue the norway model. this is what your prime minister erna solberg said, she said, "be careful because our type of connection with the eu is going to be difficult for britain because then, brussels will decide, without the brits being able to participate in the decision—making process". from your perspective, you just said we're a small country. do you think, for britain, the kind of deal that you have with the eu would be appropriate? i don't think i should give advice on how brexit — the results of brexit should be for the uk. this is something that you have to negotiate with the eu side and find your solution to it. i think, our experience with the agreement since 1994 has been very good. there is, of course, from time to time we have a debate also in our country on making certain changes to the agreement and so forth, but the overall picture is that it serves us

well, very well. it would be a big problem for you if britain does what some call the hard brexit — that is leave the eu ultimately without a full—fledged trade deal and without agreeing to participate in the single market and the customs union. in that case, norway, which has britain as its biggest trading partner, would be in a very difficult place, wouldn't it? let me say that, the bilateral relationship between norway and the uk is excellent and it will be, no matter what happens with the brexit deal. but you don't quite know that because you don't know what the trading relationship between the uk and the eu will be and as you're part of the european economic area, you're governed by what the eu decides do. yeah, of course. we follow the ongoing negotiations from the side with interest, of course. but i think the norwegian relationship with the eu side will not change with brexit,

and our relationship to the uk will not change, except the fact that we need to make some formalities through legislation, we need to have more bilateral agreements between the two countries and so forth, but i'm very, very sure that we will be able to sit down and negotiate that. what if britain gets a more favourable deal with the eu than you've got? i.e britain perhaps is required to pay in less or britain has more freedom to operate outside the rules of the eu than you do, and yet gets the advantages, at most at least of the advantages of frictionless trade with the european union? would that move norway to want to renegotiate its own deal with the european union? i think i don't — this is not the time to speculate in that. i think, first we will have to see the outcome of

the ongoing negotiations. but i can say that we are very happy with the agreement that we have because it serves us well, and then we are concerned with, with solving the aftermath that needs to be resolved between us bilaterally after brexit, and i'm sure that we are perfectly able to do so. we have already started the discussions with the uk on this... your former european affairs minister said hard brexit will affect norway dramatically, as dramatically as any eu member state. i mean, there is a sense of alarm building in norway, is there not? ithink... what we need to do is to... we need to just accept the outcome of the negotiations between the uk and the eu. it's nothing that we can do anything about, but i think that this can be resolved and i'm sure that there will be a good result when it comes, when we see the result in the end. before we end, i would like to ask you something else — directly responsible, you are, as finance minister, for overseeing in government the sovereign wealth fund,

a massive $1 trillion oil fund that norway has developed and nurtured over many years. last year was pretty unusual, because i think it was the first year that actually, your outflows from the fund exceeded the new money coming into the fund. now, your opponents in norway say that there's profligacy in the finance ministry, that you're overspending this very important, valuable legacy for norway's children's futures. well, that's not entirely correct. we have a 3% spending rule, that we have been way below ever since we took office, but it is true, for the last couple of years, we've had an expansionary fiscal policy to get us through the aftermath of the drop in oil prices. now, we see our economy picking up. growth is above trend, already this year and also next year. unemployment has come down, employment is increasing. so all figures show that it has been good for us. well, the leader of the opposition

labour party says that it's a result — this what he calls profligacy — is a result of a right—wing populist party in government, they overspent our children's savings while giving tax cuts to the wealthy norwegians living today. he also lost the elections, but let me say the fund is growing, the fund is growing every year, it's getting bigger and bigger, and we put aside a lot of money for future generations at the same time as we invest in future growth today by lowering taxes, by investing in infrastructure, by investing in research and development, and education, i think those are the most important areas to invest in, and we do that within the sound framework of the spending rule of the fund. norway's wealth is built on amazing reserves of oil and gas. it is very striking therefore that many in your country are now talking about the need to divest the sovereign wealth fund from investments in oil and gas. do you favour that? well, wejust had a proposition

that we are considering for the time being, but i think... do you favour it? you're finance minister, it's rather important to know what you think. we are looking into that now and we have not made any decision on that, but what we do is, we already diversify the fund. the fund is invested globally, it's a diversified fund. we are in several thousand companies globally, in many different areas, and that's how we need to invest the fund. i suppose it raises a question, though. norway, built on oil and gas to a certain extent. in the long run, the world economy is trying to decarbonise, it's trying to wean itself off fossil fuels. does that, in the long—term, present a fundamental challenge for norway? no, and i think norway will continue to be an oil and gas producer for many, many decades. do you? yes, we will. but... you say that happily, even though the world is committed to decarbonisation?

but we also need to reorientate our economy, we need to invest broader, because we experienced very clearly what could happen after the oil price dropped in 2014. we needed to diversify our economy and that's what we're doing for the time being, but we will still be an oil and gas producer for decades to come, but at a lower speed than we have been for the decades behind us. and we have known this for a long time but it's — this is an important industry to norway and we are proud of it, and it's also producing with — quite, quite well, i would say. alright, sivjensen, we have to end there. 0k. but thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. thank you very much indeed. the weather is set to get warmer. how warm? in south—east areas and london things could reach 25 degrees. easily the warmest we have seen so degrees. easily the warmest we have seen so far this year. fairly widely across the board we will have

temperatures between high teens and low 20s. we have seen some sunshine today. the best of it across scotland. but the crowd has been building in. further south it has been bringing outbreaks of rain. 0n the radar the rain isn't coming in in one lump, it is coming in impulses. they will continue to work their way across northern england and northern ireland. you might get and northern ireland. you might get an hours worth of rain, it stops, comes back, and again, and it will continue throughout today. that shall read weather works to the north into scotland overnight. further south it should become that bit drier with clear spells by the end of the night. temperatures, five to9 end of the night. temperatures, five to 9 degrees. monday, not a bad start, dry for england and wales. cloud and showers around further north. but these should fade away with time and we will start to get some sunshine. then the winds will pick up. for northern ireland it clouds over, the cloud thickens, we will get outbreaks of rain.

temperatures, similar to today, highs of 12 to 50 degrees. tuesday, the winds will strengthen. gale force winds across coastal areas. areas like argyll, through stirlingshire, dumfries and galloway, and cumbria, over the hills we could see as much as 50 millimetres of rain. towards the south—east, slightly warmer air coming in. temperatures climbing up to 19 degrees. that is the start of things warming up. high pressure builds further to the east of the british isles. and that will allow warm airto come british isles. and that will allow warm air to come overfrom germany and france into england and parts of wales, as well. that is where the best of the sunshine and warmth will best of the sunshine and warmth will be on wednesday. after a cloudy start further north—west the skies will brighten up. we could expect 23 degrees in london and 17 in edinburgh. not bad at all. there should be more sunshine on thursday.

some clouds in coastal areas where it could be murky, maybe some coastal fog, but they warmer day inland, temperatures up to 25 in london and the south—east. easily the warmest weather we have seen so far this year. but that doesn't say much because it has been quite chilly, hasn't it? this is bbc news. the headlines at three: labour leaderjeremy corbyn has said he would sanction operations in syria only if they had the un's approval. there has to be a process where the objective is to bring about peace, to bring about resolution to conflict, to bring about a political solution. hundreds of australian firefghters are tackling a large bushfire threatening homes in the suburbs of sydney. the chief executive of the world's largest advertising agency, martin sorrell, is stepping down. also coming up: jubilation at the commonwealth games. england beat australia in the netball, to secure

the greatest result in their history and win their first commonwealth gold medal. and at 15:30: click visits a farm where robots drive tractors,