tv Newsnight BBC News April 20, 2018 11:15pm-11:46pm BST
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every site will be sampled, cleaned, tested. if there's any trace remaining, it will be cleaned again. even to the point of removing soil and in brickwork, if necessary. but the russians have another explanation for the salisbury decontamination. we get the impression that the british government is deliberately pursuing a policy of destroying all possible evidence, clarifying all the remaining materials and making an independent and transparent investigation impossible. when the prime minister came to salisbury five weeks ago — promising to get the city back on its feet — the first place she visited was dingham's cookshop. but today, becca hardingham, who runs the shop, says takings are still down. well, we were hoping it wasjust going to be a few weeks and we'd be able to just go past it and get on with life but, yeah, it's been a struggle. it feels frustrating. business is struggling and we're just a bit worried that salisbury‘s just going to die from it.
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this week, the first pictures emerged in russia of yulia skripal leaving moscow airport on the day before the attack. friends have now confirmed that it is her. she left hospital 11 days ago, and while her father is still an inpatient, his health is improving and he too could be discharged soon. one of the world's the guest electronic dance music stars, the swedish dj avicii, has died in oman at the age of 28. —— biggest electronic dance. avicii, whose real name was tim bergling, was best known for his millions selling uk number one single wake me up. he had twice been nominated for a grammy award and played out thousands of festivals around the world. he
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retired from touring in 2016 due to health problems but had been releasing new music. cause of his death is unknown. avicii, who has died today at the age of 28. that's a summary of the news. newsday is coming up at midnight. now on bbc news, it's time for newsnight. tonight... this week's shocking stories of the windrush generation have exposed cruelty and indifference in britain's immigration system. so, what does this say about the government's ability to create a fair and transparent border policy for brexit? we'll discuss whether this is a watershed moment for immigration and race in the uk. also tonight... the russian foreign minister claims russia told the coalition what the red lines were for bombing syria last weekend. so was the operation something of a charade? and... fans chant. once he could do no wrong.
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now, arsene wenger is on his way. what happened to wenger‘s magic touch? sources told me within the club, he would not tolerate dissent and he rarely reached out beyond the club to discover fresh ideas. good evening. this week the appalling treatment of the windrush generation has produced something very rare in our much divided society, it has sparked almost unprecedented unity among press and public. we have heard testimony after testimony of inhumane and unconscionable actions by a seemingly cruel system — denial of cancer treatment, loss ofjobs, welfare benefits, driving licences, some held in detention centres, others barred from coming back home from carribbean sojourns. was this really happening to people whose parents had been invited here to help rebuild britain after the war? some even talked of contemplating suicide. though tonight theresa may promised to pay compensation to some who had suffered "where appropriate,"
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at the beginning of the week the prime minister would not even agree to meet the heads of states from the commonwealth to discuss their plight. all of this happening 50 years to the week after enoch powell's famous rivers of blood speech and 25 years after the death of stephen lawrence. but eyes are turning to the future too. very quickly the windrush row prompted questions about the position of eu nationals seeking to remain after brexit — and we're months away from a new immigration bill. tonight we discuss the ramifications of the windrush scandal but first a reminder of how the week unfolded. the stories of this week have put a very human face on the immigration system. the home secretary needs to get on with it. because there's too many people out there who are just waiting for a knock on the door. people who have lived in the uk
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for half a century have found they are no longer welcome in the country they call home. what would you say now to the prime minister, theresa may? what would be your message to her? why can't i come back here? the reason why i can't come back. many believe the scandal is a wake—up call for a government that has spent too much focus on being hostile to migrants. well, theresa may has got an unfortunate habit of sending the wrong messages to people who weren't born in this country. take the windrush debacle. one of the greatest mistakes ever made, i think, by a tory home secretary. but it fits a pattern, u nfortu nately. let's look at the three million eu nationals in this country still waiting to hear from theresa may if they can stay after brexit. she is pretty much the only person in the cabinet who wants them to have that uncertainty. borisjohnson, michael gove, all the brexiteers wanted to give them instant assurance. i can't drive, i can't work, i can't claim benefits, i can't do anything.
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newsnight spoke to sonia williams on monday. she had been told she no longer had leave to remain in the uk, despite arriving here as a child in 1975. yesterday, the home office gave her indefinite leave to remain. i didn't need to go through this process. it should have all been done years ago. i sent in the exact same information as i did before. i took the same information in yesterday. nothing more, nothing less. so why did you put me through that? why did you make me go through all that? the embarrassment, the shame, the disgust with myself? i need to be compensated. i need to have something for all these years of misery and telling me that i'm illegal and threatening deportation and what have you not. i need to be compensated for that. it's not just sonia and others from the windrush generation who are angry. many in the conservative party believe that this scandal must now lead to policy change.
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in particular, the policy commitment that almost no one in the cabinet actually likes. to bring immigration down to tens of thousands. the effect on government policy, i think, will be more pressure for a more liberal direction on immigration because the government realises it needs to atone for this. saying sorry to those affected by this debacle is not enough. they need to do a lot more to repair notjust the government's reputation in the country but britain's reputation in the world. the scandal is a painful warning to the government. with brexit, it has the monumental task of deciding who to give the right to live and work in the uk after we have left the european union. a challenge fraught with logistical and legal issues. and politically, this has been a terrible week for theresa may and the conservative party. she once described the conservatives as the nasty party. the attempt to detoxify the brand has been damaged just two weeks before the local elections. joining me now, the historian, david olusoga, the sun's political editor, tom newton—dunn, director of the think—tank class — the centre for labour and social studies, faiza shaheen and suzanne evans, the former
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deputy chairman of ukip and a former vote leave board member. good evening to you all. first of all, tom, how big a moment has the scandal of windrush been for britain, do you think? for britain, it has been a reasonably sized moment. i do not think i would go to much further than that. it has been a giant news story. the reason for that is one reason only and that is because of the commonwealth as a government, all of them arrived here to meet theresa may this year. this story has been reported in the guardian for months. all of us, my paper, the bbc, everyone else when nobody has been paying any attention to it at all. it was the trigger, the sheer embarrassment of the entire commonwealth coming here to be faced with the mess we have made of all of their people that got us over excited.
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surely then it is a wound of collective. a spotlight has been shone on it. i am not sure this will change the immigration debate. it has set fire to the kindling and has gone off. britain is aware of this story for a long time before there was another catalyst, black media figures and politicians, particularly david lambie, he was the only hero in this farce who have been pushing week by week. it was partly due to their efforts and not just the commonwealth gathering. it is a big moment, and moment when we can see what our immigration system does to people, not about thousands coming and thousands not being able to come. it is about fellow citizens being put through the mincing machine of a system that is often humane. suzanne, it was not as we were saying, the fact that the
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windrush generation work a lateral damage of a flood immigration policy, it was the fact we knew it was collateral damage and nothing was done about it. we even repeated stories and nothing was done. why was that, do you think? i think it was partly because there was huge pressure on immigration figures. the conservative party made it very clear they wanted to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands. while we remained a member of the european union that was unrealistic. there was no way we could control migration from eu countries. what was the only option? it was to double down and toughen up on anyone coming from outside the european union, in particular, our friends in the commonwealth. a lot of that pressure came from you, to be frank. look at the poster by nigel france which said, breaking point. —— farage.
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it was ukip that forced the change on this. that change was taken up in a way by populism, the danger of papers taking that up. can ijust come back on that? ukip was talking about reducing immigration. we are talking about reducing immigration but we have never talked about being unfair. we have talked about an immigration system that is much ber because it treats everyone equally and does not give priority automatically to people like us, white europeans guy coming in from eu countries. we have always said it should be a fair immigration system which applies applicability to everyone, no matter where you are from. on the question of the impact of this week, tom says it is a medium—sized impact and dave says it is huge. how will it change the weather?
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i would like to think this would change immigration policy but the truth is, of course, when we unite around a group of people that were always lawfully here, and we are upset about the stories, actually it kind of shows to us, to me, that we have quite a low bar. these people essentially deserved to be... it is a scandal but people will separate them out from other immigrants. when you look back at the link to the hostile environment which diane abbott and jeremy corbin will be making this week, you look back decades of narrative which has gave bloated immigrants and told them they are the ones where wages have fallen and we have housing problems. newspapers telling us about the syrians coming and cockroaches. it will take a generation to undo. there were headlines in the sun paper, it was about illegal migration.
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that territory ended up pushing the government, because they listened to the sun, and they listened to the mail. it reflects the feelings of people who read your papers. if some readers care passionately about immigration then that will be reflected. there is nothing wrong with doing that. what has been happening... the trees. —— the truth is that people care passionately about too many migrants coming into the country. people's views in this country are hugely schizophrenic about immigration.
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how does the sun say you are reflecting policy which leaders agree and people are schizophrenic about it? this country has been built on immigration. everyone knows and likes the migrant who might be next door, they are your best friend, but we don't want overall migration. migration which is unpersonalised. we cannot work out in our own minds were individually, as political parties, what we want from immigration. would this have happened if the windrush generation had been white incomers? well, it hasn't happened to white people from the same period. during the '40s and '50s when there was the nationality act and the windrush generation arrived, britain was bringing in european migrants from voluntary labour schemes. because they were not from the empire, in
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some cases they were in a better position. they were not british citizens and had to go through a process of naturalisation. it is because they were citizens of britain and the empire these old, fellow citizens by elders of our communities have been put through this. they have been punished for coming to britain to rebuild this country, many were invited to rebuild this country. do you think it was cruelty? bawdy think it was incompetence, or a bit of both? —— or do you inc. —— think. i think it it was cruelty. theresa may was asked at the time if she thought about what this means. for people of colour being seen as immigrants, giving these types of papers, they said, yes. they said yes, but obviously they hadn't it through. it is built into the system and we have to ask why we allow this to happen. we have been sliding down the slope for a long time. the newspapers have not told people the truth and have allowed this to happen. i do not think you can say a single
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thing we have ever said is untrue. bringing in suzanne, moving on now to look at brexit. we know there is an immigration bill will not seek for many months. —— which we will not see for many months. one suspects after this week there will be a lot of shock waves among civil servants having to deal with that at the moment. post brexit, imagine the economy does well, we need more immigrants, would that be a good thing as far as you are concerned? to have more immigrants rather than fewer? is that good? you're almost doing what the civil service is doing, trying to reduce this to numbers, and this is not a numbers game. this week has shown us how we should not treat immigrants. these are people, and we have had awful things happen to people and that is partly because of the huge pressure coming from the european union. hang on, it is about numbers
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because politicians talking numbers all the time and they reduce this to numbers. ukip reduce it to numbers and i am asking, david davis says that going forward immigration will rise and fall depending on demand in the uk. do you accept that any rise in immigration is a good thing for britain? that depends on what sort of line you are starting from. the fact is the immigration we have at the moment is completely unsustainable because of the pressures on public services. public services are not coping. we have seen all kinds of evidence on that from the increasing crime to the pressure on housing and on school places and on the nhs. what vote leave, what they always said and the brexit campaign, was we want immigration
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that is controlled so we can make sure that migrants coming here have access to services as well. if immigration needs to come up at some point, then fine, and if immigration has fallen because of it ever policy coming forward, and i am disappointed we will not see that for a considerable time, but we will have to wait and see. immigration that works for britain. notjust a numbers game and notjust a free from all open door. what we have here is a situation were on the left we don't know what immigration policy will look like. do you accept that immigration is an issue for many people in this country, people who voted for brexit and a reduction in immigration, so if the left is going to look at the kind of people who voted for you, who were concerned about immigration, what will
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the left‘s position be? you cannotjust say be back in open—door policy because that is not what the people of britain want. it was amazing to listen to that, talking about immigration and crime going up in the same breath and public services, they are in trouble because of austerity and public spending cuts. but on the left, i don't think we have had leadership on this for a long time. it is amazing this week to see jeremy corbyn and diane abbott stand up and see what they have said over the years, calling this the hostile environment policy. we need to change minds, we have been told for decades that immigration is a bad thing, so we need to talk to them about empire and why people like me are here, and notjust in terms of the economy but also family and human rights, and the way we treat human beings. if immigration rises exponentially in the future and there is problems a lot of people will say to you, actually, we have been let down?
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it is something for you to say, come back to me, i was at the people's forum this week, boris and others saying to the world that we're open and want trade deals. we have set up this country not to be able to deal with an open world brexit, because we have told people that immigration is a bad thing, and when we make these trade deals and countries like india and others say "you have to give our people preference," we set ourselves up for more trouble. we don't have much time. not only do we have the situation where this has been 50 years since rivers of blood, but the 25 year anniversary of stephen lawrence and the family had such a long fight for justice and still do not have that. how much has changed in this country? the one positive thing to me from this week is this has not felt like a black community who has seen the elders targeted,
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alone and isolated and making a case for itself, this has felt like repugnance from millions of people, most people could see what happened to these people who were invited here. it are repugnant. we don't feel alone in more. will it change future immigration policy? i doubt it. thank you very much. it's six days since coalition air strikes on syria following the attack on douma, airstikes that the kremlin said could trigger retalitory action, but today sergei lavrov, the foreign minister, shed some intruiging light on those attacks. translation: there were military leadership contacts between generals, between our representatives and the coalition leadership. they were informed about where our red lines are, including red lines on the ground geographically. and the results show that they did not cross
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these red lines. so, were the kremlin‘s threats of retaliatory action a sham? and if the attacks were "guided", did that also render the coalition action a charade? i'm joined by our diplomatic editor, mark urban. what do you make of the announcement by sergei lavrov? it is fascinating. we have had intimations of that from western people also, it is called de—confliction. and we could see what was hit — and it was not very much, not the vital assets of the assad regime, key aircraft and bases. and those are protected more heavily, including by russians, and so it makes sense, this was an attempt to protect —— prevent things getting out of hand. it was also something else, there was no question that if the russians knew, then syria knew and president assad knew exactly what was going to be hit?
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that was what happened a year ago with attacks on the air base there were warnings given, and it was subsequently established that the russians tipped off the syrians. it is reasonable to assume they might have done the same here. we have an air strike last week double the size of one year ago which the coalition knew the russians knew about. so actually, it was for show and little else. we all had the wool pulled over our eyes? if it saves people from being gassed because it was a signal, you could argue it was worth it but if this was just a gesture designed to give the president of the united states out of a corner he painted himself into it, that is another question. an expensive effort, frankly? all these missiles. but to what extent have the coalition powers fleshed out what they think they know about douma ? this is another area where we are in a different place to last week when the missiles were beginning to fly. the opcw, the un watchdog,
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have still been unable to get in there and whilst they cannot get there, but screw about certain ——doubts grow about certain aspects and in the early days after the attacks on western leaders implied that sarin gas was part of this and others just said chlorine, and we still don't know the answer. but chlorine has been used on dozens of locations, or its use has been alleged on dozens of locations by the syrian regime over the past number of years. sarin is much more serious and that breaks the agreement from 2013 that russia is a guarantor of, but we don't have solid evidence that it was used. the opcw might bring that evidence but if they do not, a lot of people will ask, was this attack quite what it was painted as? whatever is found, is there a sense the russians are trying to dial this down? yes, sergei lavrov was talking
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to the un about getting into douma and he came out with a message that presidents putin and trump would make sure syria did not lead to a third world war and try to deescalate, and spoke about a possible visit by president putin to the white house. thank you. the arsenal manager, arsene wenger, announced this morning that, after 22 years, he is to step down as manager in a few weeks' time. it was in september 2002 that he said he was hopeful he could take his arsenal side through an entire season unbeaten. but very soon afterwards they lost a match and wenger was widely mocked — critics depicted him as "comical wenger" a reference to "comical ali" — the iraqi press spokesman who found fame at the time of the 2003 invasion of iraq. that would have been the end of that particular tale, except that a year later wenger‘s arsenal side did go an entire season unbeaten — a first in the modern british game and a record that still stands. but that was 1a years ago and since then arsenal have failed to come close to being
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crowned champions again. so, what happened to wenger‘s magic touch? we asked times columnist matthew syed for his thoughts. arsene wenger transformed english football. he made the beautiful game scientific. gone were the days of boozy afternoons and jam roly—poly and in came data, diet and analytics with everything from players and tactics to development and recruitment. the trophies followed. it was a shock. you only buy into it when you realise it will be a success and we could tell by the way that he wanted us to train, the way he wanted us to play football, that this was a new system for us where we were playing out from the back, no more long balls, which i would head every time. it was a system that wanted us to play out of the back and express yourself.
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that is what arsene does, that is how he gets the best out of players. the economics in the game in the 19905 were changing also, the premier league harnessing globalisation to gain a foothold in foreign markets. the punctuated and often bad—tempered clashes between sir alex ferguson's manchester united and arsene wenger‘s arsenal was central to image football's rise to english football's rise as the hegemonic brand in world football. but the frenchman's success sowed the seeds of his downfall, other clubs mimicked his ideas and science became the norm. the great innovations of one generation became the conventional wisdom of the next. to remain ahead of the curve, wenger needed a new edge, a successful leader had a challenge his own ideas. history suggests this is a daunting challenge. kodak is a classic example. pioneers in print photography, they had a huge reputation for innovation — years
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later they even invented digital photography. but so bound up that they become in their historic success, they couldn't bring themselves to abandon print and in 2012, after years of decline, kodak fouled for bankruptcy. kodak filed for bankruptcy. wenger continued to win trophies even after the expensive move to a state—of—the—art new stadium. but on the pitch, the club unquestionably stagnated and the more arsenal faltered, the more stubborn wenger became. sources tell me that within the club he would not tolerate dissent and he rarely reached out beyond the club to discover fresh ideas. wenger will be remembered as an intelligent and inventive manager. in the late 19905 in particular, his teams fused beautiful passing with tenacity in the tackle. ultimately, however, he was outflanked by a process stronger than any one person. the creative disruption of pure competition. at its peak, his teams really worth
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close to invincible. just time for the front pages, the telegraph, police identified the poisoning suspects and they reckon they have the key suspects in the sergei skripal poisoning. persons of interest who are believed to be in russia. in the times, child slave gangs go free, police failing to investigate as thousands of lord with promises of football and modelling. as thousands are lured with promises of football and modelling. moving to the guardian, a leak reveals the deportation boast. he said he would have greater teeth to hunt down and deport thousands of illegal immigrants. the financial times, windrush migrants' case backed by records in the national archives and the records are there until 1960, more than 85,000 from caribbean countries. and one particular story from the daily mirror,
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banned from britain at the age of 81, asset granny was banned of 81, a sick granny was banned and blocked from returning after she went to jamaica for a funeral. that's all for this evening. but before we go, there was a big british success this week at the sony world photography awards. alys tomlinson won the top prize, photographer of the year. judges described her work as having "beautiful production, technical excellence and sensitive illustration of pilgrimage as a journey of discovery and sacrifice to a greater power". it's on show at somerset house in london at the moment. we went there earlier today and asked her to talk us through it all. good night. so the project is really about connecting people, the pilgrims, theirfaith and nature and the wider landscape. and i was really trying to show the relationship between the three of them, so i visited three different pilgrimage sites. one is lourdes, which is very well known in france.
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