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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  April 23, 2018 4:30am-5:01am BST

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the man who disarmed a near naked gunman who killed four people at a restaurant in the us state of tennessee has shrugged off praise that he was a hero. james shaw said he simply decided to wrestle the gun off the assailant to save his own life. a big manhunt‘s underway for the suspect, who's 29—year—old travis reinking. as the french president emmanuel macron prepares for a state visit to the us, he called on donald trump not to to pull out of the iran nuclear deal. speaking to fox news, mr macron accepted the agreement wasn't perfect but that he couldn't see a better option. at least 57 people are known to have been killed in a suicide bomb attack outside a voter registration centre in the afghan capital, kabul. the so—called islamic state says it was behind the bombing. a government spokesman says terrorist groups won't stop elections going ahead. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk with me, zeinab badawi. my guest in this exclusive
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interview has been attending the commonwealth heads of government summit here in london. it is president adama barrow of the gambia. he came to office injanuary last year after defeating the incumbent, president jammeh, who'd ruled the gambia with an iron fist for more than 20 years. president barrow found a bankrupt nation, scarred by years of living in fear and intimidation. with more than half of the population living in poverty, expectations are high. well, things have improved, but not fast enough. can president barrow deliver for his people? president adama barrow, welcome to hardtalk.
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thank you, zeinab. you are new to politics, you came in straight at the top as president. people's expectations are extremely high after the years of fear and intimidation. can you meet their expectations? it's a very interesting question. people's expectations are very, very high, after a long transition of 22 years of dictatorship. but one thing was important for the gambian people, to make the change. it was psychological, we all thought that we cannot make the change. i think that was a big success for the gambia. and we are really focused to make it so we make a difference for the country. it was difficult, but we are progressing. i mean, you were the candidate
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for a united opposition, you won the presidential elections in 2016. president yahya jammeh first accepted the result, and then he said no, he wanted to remain in power. you had to go to neighbouring senegal, you were inaugurated as president there, then he finally went into exile in equatorial guinea. however, the fact of the matter is that around 40% of gambians voted for him in that presdential election. you have got to win them over and govern, as a president, for all gambians. that is right. and we are focused on that. that's why we have opened a window of reconciliation, because, as president, that is part of your responsibility. and the gambian people are very important here. you cannot succeed as a president without the support of the gambian people, because you are the president for everybody. that's why it is important and we have been working on that, to make sure we bring in good laws
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so that the gambian people, we win their confidence, and that will open a window of reconciliation for everybody to be accomodated, onboard. but you know the party that supported jammeh, the aprc, if you speak to party members, they complain that the democratic space has been crowded, they've been crowded out from it. they complain about clashes between them and supporters of your party. we saw one very recently following local elections there, the police had to come in, using teargas and so on. and they talk about a climate of fear for themselves, because they are seen as jammeh supporters. ithink... they are legacy. they thought that jammeh's rule will neverfinish, it took them by surprise, and now they are in the opposition. but because of those few problems here and there,
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now i have given orders to the security force — any political party that is conducting a campaign or whatever should be given security. but that's not really happening, is it? i'lljust give you one example. a supporter of former president yahya jammeh from one of the areas where he has a lot of support, she fears reprisals. she says "i can't leave my village because of my political affiliation." we are seeing the divisions in the gambia, and you must be very, very keen to ensure that they don't get out of hand? these are minor, minor incidents. if you look at the protocol cycle, the national assembly elections... a lot of candidates contested elections.
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it was... what about the local elections that took place — have just ta ken place? look at the national assembly elections. if you look at the candidates who took part in those elections, it's a record in that country, it's unprecedented, it's because of the climate, it's because of the environment — and we created the environment. that people feel free and people feel safe. is that the case? because yourjustice minister, ba tambadou, has said "we are dealing with a very fragile political situation." yes, it's a fragile situation because of 22 years of dictatorship, the system was polluted. there were a lot of bad laws, dictators support them, and for 22 years, that makes it very, very fragile but we have a responsibility here, to make sure we create the environment. but as of now, i think we are progressing in those areas. there are reports that two ofjammeh‘s right—hand men slipped
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into the gambia from the border of senegal, and that they've been arrested and detained. what's happened to them? they came to the airport... on notice. this was a security lapse, but as i tell you, it's a learning process for us, it will take us time. but they were arrested, arrested in the sense that they served the army without permission for burundi. that is a crime. that's why they were arrested. and are they going to be charged? because i mean you can't detain somebody... they're already charged. they are already charged, they are going to court. the court martial, the process is on. but the process is a legal process, whereby the media and everybody probably is part of it to make sure the process is free and fair. there are also reports of the former
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jammeh death squads also slipping into the country. that must be something that's worrying you? really, i will not say that i am worried, but i am concerned. you're concerned? i'm concerned, but it also is a learning process for us. to improve the security level. so what are you exactly concerned about, with reports of these death squads, and do you have any idea of what number are we talking about? you're the minister of defence as well in your country. the concern is those people are well known, they cannot slip into the country without being noticed, and if they are not noticed, it's some kind of a security threat. the challenges in your country for you are both political
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and economic, we're looking at the political challenges here. another example is the security you've just talked about, you know, could be compromised. reliable reports say that 80% of the army may still have some kind of loyalty to the former president, yahya jammeh. that is an over exaggeration, i don't think so. but a good number. a good number, but i think that trend is changing. so you can't trust your own army? i think i trust my army but, as i said, everything is a process and we are going into a... a process of educating our army, building their capacity, so that they'll be professional, so that they will know what is their role as far as democracy is concerned. we want not the quantity, the quality. the quantity is not the most important thing but quality,
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and in this, we are building an economy for the military. and i will want them also to be accommodated in the military, so that they play the role of defence force, not as police. another aspect that is worring a lot of people you talk to — both in the gambia and also in the diaspora — is that there may be incipient signs of tribalism in the gambia. the former president yahya jammeh of course threatened to bury the mandinka majority tribe in the gambia nine feet deep, and that's another layer which is making people very, very restless, that perhaps they're seeing your government is trying to perhaps push the mandinka over and above thejola, and that's going to cause a lot of trouble. that has never been our focus, that has never been the way we think. we feel that the gambian people are the same. the presidents can come and go
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but the gambia remains, and we feel that gambia is not complete without all its ethnicities — the mandinka, thejola. everybody should be part of the new gambia, a complete gambia. i'll give you an example of what one person has said, for instance, he's from the campaign for human rights gambia uk, he warns against democratic backsliding, is how he puts it. these arejust opinions and they have a right to their opinion, but i think gambia is on the right track as far as democracy is concerned. because the participation — the number of participants in our democratic process is unprecedented. so, you've set up a truth and reconciliation commission, for example, to look at the excesses of the jammeh years. we saw dozens and dozens of people who'd disappeared, you know, murdered, people
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who lost their livelihoods and so on. you have got to make sure that you bring justice to the people who need it, without creating an atmosphere of a witch—hunt against those who once supported or still support the jammeh party. that's why we are following a process, that's why we set up a commission of enquiries. the commission of enquiries will make sure to get the facts together and make a recommendation to the president, and that's the time we will decide what to do next, but we have a responsibility here — and that responsibility is, we want to follow the due process and make sure every gambian is accommodated, everr gambian is giving his views. would you like to see former presidentjammeh turn up before the international criminal court? after all, the prosecutor there is fatou bensouda, a former gambian minister ofjustice herself. have you spoken
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to her, for instance? we will still wait for the report of the commission of enquiries. then that will dictate what will be our next move, but the bottom line is we want to follow the due process. anybody who is found wanting will face the full force of the law. have you asked president obiang of equatorial guinea for yahya jammeh's extradition? we haven't made any requests. we haven't asked for it as of now, we are still waiting to get the facts together. you have said you want to make the gambia a beacon for human rights in the whole of africa. when you came to power about 15 months ago, you released all political prisoners, you said jammeh was wrong, the gambia shouldn't have left the icc, we want to go back in there. and, you know, by and large, you've been applauded for your efforts, but there are some alarms that are being sounded, aren't there, about what is happening in the gambia? and i want to give you one example of that. dr ismaila ceesay, a lecturer in politics at the university
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of the gambia, injanuary he's arrested by the police and he doesn't know why. he's detained, he's now been freed, and it was all because he wrote some things in the gambian press which wasn't to your government's liking. i was expecting this question. there you are. this — it's not a surprise. yes. there's one thing i want to make clear here. dr ismaila ceesay and everyone in gambia are all equal in front of the law. the police are there to do theirjob. if they feel anybody should be questioned by them, i think it is within their mandate. under gambian laws, you can question anybody within 72 hours, and ismaila ceesay was called for questioning. he wrote something in the newspapers that was about security...
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i can tell you what he said. he said you lacked focus, he said that the west african security force, which is partly protecting you and is there because you can't trust your own army. he says these forces will not prevent long—term security risks if the president does not win the trust of the army. that doesn't sound like a police matter, that sounds like something your government, you perhaps, did not like? i don't dictate what the police does. the police feel they should question him and get more information about the issues he is talking about. i think it was written in the mandate of the police. were they acting on anybody‘s orders? your orders? they were not acting on anybody‘s orders, i would never order the police to arrest anybody. there are a lot of people who criticise me, people
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can insult me. i have never ordered anybody. he says he is baffled as to why he was arrested. in this country we believe in the principle of the rule of law. if you feel the police are wrong in what they are doing, in their duties, i think the courts are there for him to take the police to court. the media has condemned, saying that we wish to remind the president of the immense contribution of the media and the activists, such as the doctor, in ensuring the end of 22 years of dictatorship, we urge the president to ensure that freedom of expression is protected, promoted and fulfilled in the gambia. will you do that? everybody contributed towards this change. everybody contributed. i was part of that. and not only contributed in the 2016 elections,
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but i was making this change. there is nobody associated with that more than me. you know... i believe in those principles, it is based on those principles that i was elected in office, i would not compromise the rule of law. you said the government is going to make the laws compatible with the commonwealth, another issue concerning a lot of people is the issues of lgbt — lesbian, gay, bi and transexual people. you have a very tough law in the gambia, up to 14 years punishment, if found guilty of engaging in gay sex. is this something that you will reform? the most important thing here is it was a very easy decision for me and my government to be
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admitted in the commonwealth for a simple reason, this institution advocates for good governance. they advocate for rule of law, respect for human rights. that is why it was easy for us tojoin. and now, we have a process. we want a complete overhaul to make sure that we have good laws, that will accommodate everybody. every gambian. how soon can gambians see a new constitution? our target is 18 months to two years. we will have good laws, country—wide, we will come up with a document that will suit everybody. those other political challenges but you also have
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immense economical challenges. you said your government's top priority is youth unemployment. about 65% of gambia's population is under 30, youth unemployment is more than a0%. you have to provide some kind ofjobs, some kind of future for these very frustrated youth. what are you going to do for them? all countries that has succeeded in this areas believe in the principles of democracy. we want to continue with that. because of the democratic process in those countries, there are a lot of people who have confidence in their country and want to invest in those countries. believe me, it is the private sector that create jobs. a lot of companies are in the country and that will help injob creation. if you look at the tourism industry... the tourism industry. about 25% of our gdp, it used to be 6—montly,
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now in a year we will have increased employment. so you want to boost tourism as a way for creating jobs? we want to boost tourism. if you look at the numbers we are getting, our target is up to $1 million a year. you've got to do this very quickly because per capita, gambia, small population of 2 million, provides more irregular migrants to europe than any other country in africa. they risk their lives because they feel they have no future in their country. i think that has changed. it has dropped drastically now. people are starting to believe the system, i think that is helping in that area, where they have lost confidence because of
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the dictators and everything. now change has happened and i think that trend is changing. i think this is very good. you are in a dire state. when you came to power you said we inherited an economy that was virtually empty, debt accounts for about 120% of your gdp. every household in gambia owes about $4500, you have got no money to do any of these things. the frustration is just going to build and build. yes, that is why we are able to work very hard to take it as a priority. we have started creating jobs. borrowing has dropped, inflation has gone down, banks are lending now. we are progressing. you have got a national development plan to run through to 2021 to the next election, but people are saying what kind of plan have you got?
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the standard asks about agriculture, "mr president, our government buying farms peanuts with outside help is not any plan to revitalise our agriculture." nearly three quarters of your people depend upon agriculture as a livelihood. there is no investment, no mechanisation, no fertiliser seeds, you have no plan. after 22 years of dictatorship, things cannot change overnight. there is a process. we believe it is a challenge and we have to mechanise, we are contacting a lot of companies. specifically china. some technical people are coming into the government as we need knowledge and money to improve the agricultural sector. we have the land. when you pursue your plans and so on, there is also a danger that you want to build so quickly that things get out of hand and i look at tourism and you've mentioned how tourism is booming now in the gambia, but one terrible
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side—effect of the tourism business in the gambia is exploitation, sexual exploitation of children by tourists coming into the country. in your country there are posters saying zero tolerance of child sexual exploitation, but you do it goes on. mr president, you have to make every effort to ensure that your children are protected. we are doing a lot of efforts and in doing this effort we have to enlighten our people. we have to educate our people. the security, the tourism sector also, i think this year the security is different. the people who we are partnering with in the tourism sector are part of these reforms to make sure we have good choice in this country and also... and protect your children? of course. when you came to office it was understood you were only going to serve three years of your term in a memorandum of understanding although it is five years — are you going to stay in power for five years
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and would you contest the next election? briefly and finally. as you say, we came together for an agreement. three years. the mandate is five years, people voted for five years. so you will stay in power for five years? this was the gambian people's decision. it is still the wish to deliver three or five years. legally, i have a mandate of five years. so having been a businessman, new to politics and coming in at the top, you like where you are and want to stay and you will run for another term in 2021? it's not the bestjob. i am giving it responsibility because people trusted me. it's not the period you will stay in power, what you do are able to do for your people is important.
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my legacy is more important. it is ultimately the gambian people's responsibility. president adama barrow of the gambia, thank you indeed for coming on hardtalk. it is a great pleasure. you are most welcome. good morning. well, yesterday was the last time we'll see anywhere in the uk get above 20 degrees through the week ahead. the kink in the jetstream to the north of us which helped to drag in that unusual warmth through last week is now out of the way, and through the week ahead we'll see the jetstream piling up in the atlantic and move to the south of the uk, putting us on the colder side. what does that mean? well, actually back to more typical weather for the time of year. nothing untoward, nice enough when the sun's out,
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the sun's got a bit of strength but it does mean we'll see cooler conditions, especially when the rain's around. and certainly cooler conditions to start your monday morning commute, temperatures down into single figures uk—wide, compensated, though, with a bit of sunshine in many areas, particularly to the south and east of the uk. a bit more cloud and overnight showers continuing in northern scotland. some of those will fade for a while. cloud amounts will increase from the west through the day. sticking with sunny spells in eastern parts of the country, but turning greyer. northern ireland, occasional rain through the afternoon, spreading into western scotland, isle of man and western parts of wales too. like sunday, we'll see temperatures here at around 10—14 degrees. further east, down on what we've seen, but 15—18 celsius still pleasant enough with some sunny spells overhead, and that, of course, for late april. sunshine, though, quickly dissipates during the evening as cloud increases from the west. some occasional rain spreading across most parts of the uk,
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all linked into this weather system, the bulk of which will have got out of the way by tuesday, but leaving a trailing front to the north of scotland and across southern counties of england. these are the two zones, they start the day on tuesday cloudy. brighter weather southern scotland, northern ireland, and northern england, showers will develop, though, for some through day but while we will see a few breaks in the cloud in the south, later on, it rethickens, the cloud does, and it turns grey, misty and damp, wales and south—west england in particular. your temperatures for tuesday, roughly around the teens. could see 17 degrees if you see cloud breaks towards the south—east corner, but even that milder air will be pushed out the way through tuesday night. a little wriggle on the weather front bringing rain for some. that edges out the way into wednesday and puts us into west to north—westerly winds. and in fact, wednesday, a typical april showers day. most places starting with some sunshine. showers already there in the west, but they'll develop more widely, become heavy with hail and thunder. gusty winds as well. and, as the showers come through, feeling rather cool. temperatures much lower than you've been used to,
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especially in the east, 11—15 degrees your high. and through wednesday and into the rest of the week, north—westerly winds will dominate. low pressure to the north of us, and that will keep us in a rather showery airflow. as well as being rather cool by day with a mixture of sunshine and showers, showers most dominant to the north, it's going to turn rather chilly by night too. take care. hello. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top stories: a manhunt is underway in tennessee, after a shooting at a restaurant in nashville left four dead. 0ne diner‘s hailed a hero for wrestling a rifle from the gunman. i figured, if i was going to die, he was going to have to work for it. so i rushed him, and it actually worked out to my favour. president macron urges donald trump not to withdraw from the iran nuclear deal, ahead of their meeting today in washington. former bosnian serb leader radovan karadzic is due back in court to challenge his conviction for genocide. and taking to the track to fit in. we meet the immigrants putting their best foot forward in sweden.
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