tv HAR Dtalk BBC News April 24, 2018 12:30am-1:00am BST
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in toronto, after a man drove a van into pedestrians at high speed. it's reported the suspect is 25—year—old alek minassian but police have not said if the incident was a deliberate act. the police have appealed for witnesses to come forward. the french president, emmanuel macron, has arrived at the white house at the start of a three—day state visit to the us. he's set for talks with donald trump on trade and the iran nuclear deal. and the first glimpse on bbc.com of the newest royal in line for the british throne. the duke and duchess of cambridge welcomed the arrival of their third child. a healthy baby boy, who's fifth in line to the throne, after prince charles and william, and his older siblings prince george and princess charlotte. after prince charles and william, and his older siblings prince george and princess charlotte. that's all from me now. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk with me, zeinab badawi.
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my guest in this exclusive interview has been attending the commonwealth heads of government summit here in central london. it is president adama barrow of the gambia. he came to office injanuary last year after defeating the incumbent, president jammeh, who'd ruled the gambia with an iron fist for more than 20 years. president barrow found a bankrupt nation, scarred by years of living in fear and intimidation. with more than half of the population living in poverty, expectations are high. well, things have improved, but not fast enough. can president barrow deliver for his people? president adama barrow, welcome to hardtalk.
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thank you, zeinab. you are new to politics, you came in straight at the top as president. people's expectations are extremely high after the years of fear and intimidation. can you meet their expectations? it's a very interesting question. people's expectations are very, very high, after a long transition of 22 years of dictatorship. but one thing was important for the gambian people, to make the change. it was psychological, we all thought that we cannot make the change. i think that was a big success for the gambia. and we are really focused to make it so we make a difference for the country.
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it was difficult, but we are progressing. i mean, you were the candidate for a united opposition, you won the presidential elections in 2016. president yahya jammeh first accepted the result, and then he said no, he wanted to remain in power. you had to go to neighbouring senegal, you were inaugurated as president there, then he finally went into exile in equatorial guinea. however, the fact of the matter is that around 40% of gambians voted for him in that presidential election. you have got to win them over and govern, as a president, for all gambians. that is right. and we are focused on that. that's why we have opened a window of reconciliation, because, as president, that is part of your responsibility. and the gambian people are very important here. you cannot succeed as a president without the support of the gambian people, because you are the president for everybody. that's why it is important and we have been working on that, to make sure we bring in good laws
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so that the gambian people, we win their confidence, and that will open a window of reconciliation for everybody to be accommodated, onboard. but you know the party that supported jammeh, the aprc, if you speak to party members, they complain that the democratic space has been crowded, they've been crowded out from it. they complain about clashes between them and supporters of your party. we saw one very recently following local elections there, the police had to come in, using teargas and so on. and they talk about a climate of fear for themselves, because they are seen as jammeh supporters. ithink... they are legacy. they thought that jammeh‘s rule will neverfinish, it took them by surprise, and now they are in the opposition. but because of those few
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problems here and there, now i have given orders to the security force — any big political party that is conducting a campaign or whatever should be given security. but that's not really happening, is it? i'lljust give you one example. a supporter of former president yahya jammeh from one of the areas where he has a lot of support, she fears reprisals. she says "i can't leave my village because of my political affiliation." we are seeing the divisions in the gambia, and you must be very, very keen to ensure that they don't get out of hand? these are minor, minor incidents. if you look at the protocol cycle, the national assembly elections... a lot of candidates
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contested the elections. it was... what about the local elections that took place — have just ta ken place? look at the national assembly elections. if you look at the candidates who took part in that election, it's a record in that country, it's unprecedented, it's because of the climate, it's because of the environment — and we created the environment. that people feel free and people feel safe. is that the case? because yourjustice minister, ba tambadou, has said "we are dealing with a very fragile political situation." yes, it's a fragile situation because of 22 years of dictatorship, the system was polluted. there were a lot of bad laws, dictators support them, and for 22 years, that makes it very, very fragile but we have a responsibility here, to make sure we create the environment. but as of now, i think we are progressing in those areas. there are reports that two ofjammeh‘s right—hand men slipped
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into the gambia from the border of senegal, and that they've been arrested and detained. what's happened to them? they came to the airport... on notice. this was a security lapse, but as i tell you, it's a learning process for us, it will take us time. but they were arrested, arrested in the sense that they served the army without permission for burundi. that is a crime. that's why they were arrested. and are they going to be charged? because i mean you can't detain somebody... they're already charged. they are already charged, they are going to court. the court martial, the process is on. but the process is a legal process,
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whereby the media and everybody probably is part of it to make sure the process is free and fair. there are also reports of the former jammeh death squads also slipping into the country. that must be something that's worrying you? really, i will not say that i am worried, but i am concerned. you're concerned? i'm concerned, but it also is a learning process for us, to make sure we improve the security level. so what are you exactly concerned about, with reports of these death squads, and do you have any idea of what number are we talking about? you're the minister of defence as well in your country. the concern is those people are well known, they cannot slip into the country without being noticed, and if they are not noticed, it's some kind of a security threat. the challenges in your country for you are both political and economic, we're looking at the political challenges here. another example is the security you've just talked about, you know, could be compromised.
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reliable reports say that 80% of the army may still have some kind of loyalty to the former president, yahya jammeh. that is an over exaggeration, i don't think so. but a good number. a good number, but i think that trend is changing. that is an over exaggeration, i don't think so. but a good number. a good number, but i think that trend is changing. so you can't trust your own army? i think i trust my army, but as i said, everything is a process and we are going into a... a process of educating our army, building their capacity, so that they'll be professional, so that they will know what is their role as far as democracy is concerned. we want not the quantity, the quality. the quantity is not the most important thing but quality, and in this, we are building an economy for the military. and i will want them also to be accommodated in the military,
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so that they play the role of defence force, not as police. another aspect that is worring a lot of people you talk to — both in the gambia and also in the diaspora — is that there may be incipient signs of tribalism in the gambia. the former president yahya jammeh of course threatened to bury the mandinka majority tribe in the gambia nine feet deep, and that's another layer which is making people very, very restless, that perhaps they're seeing your government is trying to perhaps push the mandinka over and above thejola, and that's going to cause a lot of trouble. that has never been our focus, that has never been the way we think. we feel that the gambian
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people are the same. the presidents can come and go but the gambia remains, and we feel that gambia is not complete without all its ethnicities — the mandinka, thejola. everybody should be part of the new gambia, a complete gambia. i'll give you an example of what one person has said, for instance, he's from the campaign for human rights gambia uk, he warns against democratic backsliding, is how he puts it. these arejust opinions and they have a right to their opinion, but i think gambia is on the right track as far as democracy is concerned. because the participation — the number of participants in our democratic process is unprecedented. so, you've set up a truth and reconciliation commission, for example, to look at the excesses
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of the jammeh years. we saw dozens and dozens of people who'd disappeared, you know, murdered, people who lost their livelihoods and so on. who lost their livelihoods you have got to make sure that you bring justice to the people who need it, without creating an atmosphere of a witch—hunt against those who once supported or still support the jammeh party. that's why we are following a process, that's why we set up a commission of enquiries. the commission of enquiries will make sure to get the facts together and make a recommendation to the president, and that's the time we will decide what to do next, but we have a responsibility here — and that responsibility is, we want to follow the due process and make sure every gambian is accommodated, every gambian is giving his views. would you like to see former presidentjammeh turn up before the international criminal court? after all, the prosecutor there is fatou bensouda, a former gambian minister
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ofjustice herself. have you spoken to her, for instance? we will still wait for the report of the commission of enquiries. then that will dictate what will be our next move, but the bottom line is we want to follow the due process. anybody who is found wanting will face the full force of the law. have you asked president obiang of equatorial guinea for yahya jammeh‘s extradition? we haven't made any requests. we haven't asked for it as of now, we are still waiting to get the facts together. you have said you want to make the gambia a beacon for human rights in the whole of africa. when you came to power about 15 months ago, you released all political prisoners, you said jammeh was wrong, the gambia shouldn't have left the icc, we want to go back in there. and, you know, by and large, you've been applauded for your efforts, but there are some alarms that are being sounded, aren't there, about what is happening in the gambia?
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and i want to give you one example of that. dr ismaila ceesay, a lecturer in politics at the university of the gambia, injanuary he's arrested by the police and he doesn't know why. he's detained, he's now been freed, and it was all because he wrote some things in the gambian press which wasn't to your government's liking. i was expecting this question. there you are. this — it's not a surprise. yes. there's one thing i want to make clear here. dr ismaila ceesay and everyone in gambia are all equal in front of the law. the police are there to do theirjob. if they feel anybody should be questioned by them, i think it is within their mandate. under gambian laws, you can question anybody within 72 hours, and ismaila ceesay was called for questioning.
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he wrote something in the newspapers that was about security... i can tell you what he said. he said you lacked focus, he said that the west african security force, which is partly protecting you and is there because you can't trust your own army. he says these forces will not prevent long—term security risks if the president does not win the trust of the army. that doesn't sound like a police matter, that sounds like something your government, you perhaps, did not like? i don't dictate what the police does. the police feel they should question him and get more information about the issues he is talking about. i think it was written in the mandate of the police. were they acting on anybody‘s orders? your orders? they were not acting on anybody‘s orders,
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i would never ordered the police to arrest anybody. there are a lot of people who criticise me, people can insult me. i have never ordered anybody. he says he is baffled as to why he was arrested. in this country we believe in the principle of the rule of law. if you think the police are wrong in what we are doing, in their duties, i think we are with him to take the police to court. the media foundation for west africa has condemned, saying that we wish to remind the president that the immense contribution of the media and the activists, such as the doctor, in ensuring the end of 22 years of dictatorship, we urge the president to ensure that freedom of expression is protected, promoted fulfilled in the gambia. will you do that? everybody contributed towards this. everybody contributed. i was part of that. and not only contributed in the 2016 elections, but i was making this change. there is nobody associated
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that with more than me. i believe in those principles, it is based on those principles that i was elected in office, i would not compromise the rule of law. you said the government is going to make the laws compatible with the commonwealth values. another issue concerning a lot of people, particulaly with african nations, is the issues of lgbt, lesbian, gay, bi and transexual people, you have a very tough law in the gambia, up to 14 years punishment, if found guilty of engaging in gay sex. is this something you will reform?
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the most important thing here it was a very easy decision for me and my government to be admitted in the commonwealth and the icc for a simple reason, this institution advocates for good governance. they advocate for rule of law, respect for human rights. that's why it was easy for us tojoin. and now, we have a process. we want a complete overhaul of our constitution to make sure that we have good laws, that will accommodate everybody, every gambian. how soon can gambians see a new constitution with these good laws? our target is 18 months to two years. we will have good laws, country wide, we will come up with a document that suits everybody. those are the political challenges but you also have immense economical challenges.
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you said your government's top priority is youth unemployment. about 65% of gambia's population is under 30, youth unemployment is more than a0%. you have to provide some kind ofjobs, some kind of future for these very frustrated youth. what are you going to do for them? all countries that have succeeded in this areas believe in the principles of democracy. we want to continue on that path. because of the democratic process in those countries, there are a lot of people who have confidence in that country and want to invest in those countries. believe me, it is the private sector that can create jobs. a lot of companies are investing in that country and that will help injob creation. if you look at the tourism industry...
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the tourism industry. about 25% of our gdp, it used to be 6—montly, in a year we will have increased employment. so you want to boost tourism as a way for creating jobs? we want to boost tourism. as of now, if you look at the numbers we are getting, 250 tourists in our country, ourtarget is up to i million a year. you've got to do this very quickly because per capita, gambia, small population of 2 million, provides more irregular migrants to europe than any other country in africa. they risk their lives because they feel they have no future in their country. i think that has changed. it has dropped drastically now. people are starting to believe the system. i think that is helping in that area, they have lost confidence because of the dictators and everything.
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now the change has happened and i think that trend is changing. i think this is very good. you are in a dire state. when you came to power you said, "we inherited an economy that was virtually empty," debt accounts for about 120% of your gdp. every household in gambia owes about $4,500, you've got no money to do any of these things. the frustration is just going to build and build. yes, that's why we are able to work very hard to take it as a priority. we have started creating jobs. borrowing has dropped, interest rates have gone down, banks are lending now. we are progressing in those areas. you have got a national development plan to run through to 2021, when the next elections are due,
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but people are saying what kind of plan have you got? the standard newspaper asks about agriculture, "mr president, our government buying farms peanuts without outside help is not any plan to revitalise our agriculture." nearly three quarters of your population depend upon agriculture as a livelihood, there's no investment, no mechanisation, no fertiliser, seeds, you have no plan. after 22 years of dictatorship, things cannot happen overnight. there is a process. we have to follow the process. we believe it is a challenge and we have to recognise, we are contacting a lot of companies for mechanisation. one is china. some technical people are coming into the government as we need knowledge and money to improve the agricultural sector. we have the land. when you pursue your plans and so on, there's also a danger that you want to build so quickly that things get out of hand and i look at tourism and you've mentioned how tourism is booming now in the gambia,
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but one terrible side—effect of the tourism business in the gambia is exploitation, sexual exploitation of children by tourists coming into the country. in your country there are posters saying "zero tolerance of child sexual exploitation," but you know it goes on. mr president, you have to make every effort to ensure that your children are protected. we are doing a lot of efforts and in doing this effort we have to enlighten our people. we have to educate our people. the security, the tourism sector also, i think this year the security in the tourism sector is different. the people who we are partnering with in the tourism sector are part of these reforms to make sure we have good tourists in this country and also... and protect your children? of course. when you came to office it was understood you were only going to serve three years of your term in a memorandum of understanding, although it's
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a five—year term, are you going to stay in power for five years and would you contest the next election? briefly and finally. as you say, we came together for an agreement. three years. the mandate is five years, people voted for five years. so you will stay in power for five years? this was the gambian people's decision for us to come together. legally, i have a mandate of five years. so having been a businessman, new to politics and coming in at the top, you like where you are and want to stay and you will run for another term in 2021? it's not the bestjob. i'm given responsibility because people trusted me. it's not easy.
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it's not the period you will stay in power, what you do are able to do for your people is important. my legacy is more important than staying in power. it is ultimately the gambian people's responsibility. president adama barrow of the gambia, thank you indeed for coming on hardtalk. it is a great pleasure, zeinab. you are most welcome. well, this week the weather's going to go pretty much back to normal. it's only compared to what we had last week with that heat wave and those temperatures in the high 20s for some of us. this week it's going to change a little bit more from sunny spells to darker clouds. it will remain very fresh. in fact, the indication is as we head through the week,
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the temperatures will keep on dropping and it could turn really chilly by the weekend and the nights will be nippy as well. now, there's a lot of cloud out there in the atlantic which is ready to come our way, lots of showers too. this is cool air, it's streaming in and it's here to stay for the next few days. so, for the early hours of tuesday morning, a lot of cloud across southern areas. that actually is going to stop the temperatures from dropping too low, talking about ten or 12 across the south and in the north where clear spells develop, around seven or eight, six in the very far north. tuesday itself is going to be a bit of a mixed bag across the uk, there will be some sunshine around for sure but also a lot of cloud and rain later in the morning spilling into parts of wales. that rain will probably move across this central swathe of the uk, probably a little bit in the midlands and quite possibly some across yorkshire, certainly moving through wales as well. in the north of the country we'll have a mixture of sunshine and showers, particularly across scotland, and there'll be some showers in northern ireland
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as well and cool in the north, i2. typically in the south, around 15. tuesday night into wednesday, that where the system moves away and in its place, this low comes in from the north atlantic carrying quite a lot of fresh air, and what happens this time of the year when we've got cold air sitting on top of us and then you get the strong sunshine? basically that means you get big showers forming and it's going to be a real rush of them on tuesday... on wednesday, that is. so wednesday is going to be a very changeable day from sunshine, to downpours, back to sunshine again. through thursday, we're in that cool air stream off the atlantic, which is here to stay into the weekend as well, and this is normalfor the time of the year. the average for the time of the year in the south is 14 to 16 degrees, a couple of degrees lower in the north, and that's pretty much what we're getting on thursday. you can see round 15 in london and ii in glasgow and edinburgh. again, a mixture of sunshine and showers on thursday. now, this is thejet stream here. whenever you see a dip in the jet stream it basically drags the cool airfrom the north so into friday,
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saturday and sunday that cool air establishes itself across the uk. this is newsday on the bbc. i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines — a van ploughs into pedestrians in toronto, killing nine and injuring 16 more. the suspected driver is named as 25—year—old alek minassian. emmanuel macron begins his us state visit, but with three days of talks ahead, will his ties with president trump reap rewards? i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme — from hollywood to bollywood — allegations of sexual harassment span the entertainment world. and the duke and duchess of cambridge introduce the world to their new baby boy. he's fifth in line to the throne. it's wonderful news, it's fantastic news!
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