ambitions as well as its nuclear and missile programmes. emmanuel macron, on a state visit to the us, urged mr trump to fix rather than reject the deal iran reached with leading world powers in 2015. mr trump also spoke about his proposed summit with north korea's leader kim jong—un. he now describes the man he used to call "little rocket—man" as "very open" and "very honourable". he claims the meeting will happen soon and will benefit the whole world. after this damatic arrest in toronto, alek minassian has now appeared in court charged on 10 counts of murder. —— dramatic. canadian police say cryptic messages on social media suggest he may have had a grudge against women. they say he has no known links to terror groups. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i am stephen

sackur. four years after the maidan revolution, ukraine is a country with unfulfilled expectations. a lot of problems remain, including moscow's hostility. stalled reforms, political infighting and endemic corruption. my guest is ulana suprun, a ukrainian— american doctor who is the country's health minister, trying to drive through big reform of the health—care system. a symbolic test. can she deliver? ulana suprun, welcome to

hardtalk. thank you for having me. you are an american by birth, you area you are an american by birth, you are a minister in the ukrainian government. do you feel like an outsider in kia? thank you very much for having me, it is really great to be here so i can talk about some of the positive things going on in ukraine. sometimes i do feel like an outsider but not really because of being born in the united states. it isa being born in the united states. it is a little bit more about having a great amount of hope in what is happening in ukraine. working within the government, i am not a politician, i am a doctor is that pa rt politician, i am a doctor is that part of it sometimes does make me feel a bit different than the other ministers but would have a good working relationship. you can't really be in a government and not be a politician, at least be political

in the end because day by day, you are not doctoring, you are wrestling with other branches of government to get stuff done politically. yes, we are. we are wrestling together. we have a pretty good team. what was important when i came into the ministry was that i brought in a tea m ministry was that i brought in a team with me so that we can get the work done they needed to change the healthcare work done they needed to change the healthca re system work done they needed to change the healthcare system in ukraine. within the ministry, we have a really great tea m the ministry, we have a really great team and really it's a team of outsiders in general because none of the people came into the with me we re the people came into the with me were really politicians or involved in politics before. i want to get into the detail of what your trying to do in terms of healthcare reform because it is really important that has become a symbol and test case for all the notion of reform and transformation in ukraine before that, explain to me why you committed to the country of your pa rents committed to the country of your parents both after so long in the us, and you had a good career in the us, and you had a good career in the us, in new york, and you make the

decision in 2013/11; to make a new life in ukraine. were you so taken with a whole maidan popular uprising movement? was it more personal? it was a little more personal. my husband and i, he grew up in canada ina similar husband and i, he grew up in canada in a similar situation as myself, also born of ukrainian parents, ukrainian families, also born of ukrainian parents, ukrainianfamilies, our also born of ukrainian parents, ukrainian families, our church was ukrainian, how schools were ukrainian, how schools were ukrainian and we lived in new york for 15 years and at one point we decided that it was time for us to move to ukraine. we had built up a lot of experience and we saw the challenges that were in ukraine. at the time we made our decision, ya nu kovych the time we made our decision, yanukovych was still president and we happen to move when the maidan revolution was starting. we came on the day that the students were beaten up and from that moment forward , beaten up and from that moment forward, we were involved for three

months and the revolution. you trained frontline soldiers on first aid? after the revolution of dignity when the war started, when the russian federation first occupied and illegally annexed crimea and the army came in to eastern ukraine, there was not a very strong ukrainian military at that time. it had been deconstructed over very many years so when we wanted to help the soldiers in the humanitarian programme, we asked the soldiers what they needed and they said they didn't have any first aid kits so i, being a physician, asked my collea g u es being a physician, asked my colleagues who worked the military and ask them, what do they do? they showed us this improved first aid kit which the us and british military used and when you brought it into ukraine and showed it to the soldiers, they didn't know what to do with it and we found out it wasn't the kit, it was the training

that was more important. our organisation named patriot defence trained soldiers and in military academies and we gave them 25,00ist aid kits. at you describe —— academies and we gave them 25,0015t aid kits. at you describe —— 25,000 first aid kits. imagine how things have changed since the war but it's not just the have changed since the war but it's notjust the military have changed since the war but it's not just the military weather is profound structural problems and your health minister, a meteoric rise, you are health minister and you seem rise, you are health minister and you seem to see the most terrible problems the healthcare system. i'm quoting you from 2017 describing a visit he made to a child cancer ward ina visit he made to a child cancer ward in a hospital where you described mould on all of the walls, no doctors showing any respect for the kids who are patients, who could barely walk, and they had doctors making money off desperate parents. what a terrible indictment of the healthcare system. one of the things

that i admired for in ukraine is that i admired for in ukraine is that i admired for in ukraine is that i am honest and i tell the truth and i call things by their names. most ukrainians agree this is the way the healthcare system looks. for 26 years of independence, nothing was done. ukraine inherited the legacy of the soviet occupation, the legacy of the soviet occupation, the system that was in place and nothing much was done in the healthcare system. everyone was afraid to touch it and there is a great amount of corruption in that system itself. you need to lead a system itself. you need to lead a system where you seem to be suggesting that a very significant if not overwhelming number of the doctors at the heart of the system are doctors at the heart of the system a re utterly doctors at the heart of the system are utterly corrupt. if we don't face the problem, we will never be able to solve the problem. is that what you are saying? able to solve the problem. is that what you are saying ?|j able to solve the problem. is that what you are saying? i am saying there is a big problem with corruption. at the level of the doctors, they make very low salaries and they receive what they call is

from patients, cash payments under the table. in other places, that would be called corruption. this goes to the top levels were the head of the pharmaceutical companies make deals with —— with each other during tendering processes do we pay far more per medicine than we should be paid in and the chain from the bottom all the way to the top, a lot of problems along the way is what we are trying to do, what we are doing with the new healthcare system is we are creating a system where there are creating a system where there are no longer is corruption that is necessary. the doctors will be making a decent salary working in decent conditions and they won't need to have those extra payments. to deliver that, you have to take the doctors with you and many are not going with you at all. this highly respected heart surgeon in ukraine, and many of his patients, boris todorov, he has accused you of ministerial negligence. he says your approach to the healthcare system in ukraine has led to the death of

hundreds if not thousands of patients. this is an example of the fa ke patients. this is an example of the fake news, the fake narrative that comes out from people who are against healthcare reforms. he is an actual heart surgeon. yes, years and to this particular doctor has been making money off things like placing ste nts making money off things like placing stents inpatients. we have national procurement of medicines in some of our medical devices. when he was in charge of buying those steps, we could afford only 10,000 stents and a certain amount of money. in 2015, the parliament voted for a law fully handed procurement to international organisations in the same amount of money he was able to buy 10,000 ste nts, money he was able to buy 10,000 stents, we are able to buy 20,000 ste nts. stents, we are able to buy 20,000 stents. he's not here respond to that particular charge of yours. he just says, look at my record, look at the patients whose lives i've

saved who seem to be on my side about where the healthcare system should be going. it points to other doctors. prominent leading children hospital doctor svetalana doctors. prominent leading children hospital doctor svetala na donskaya, they would say the joy neoliberal reforms of ukrainian healthcare system possibly misguided. what we can look at is a different side to this. in the last three weeks, we started the programme of patients to sign up with the family cow doctors. it's a change them because patients we re it's a change them because patients were told where to go to the doctor. based on their geographic location. in the last three weeks, 1.3 million patients have signed up with their doctors. that's a huge amount of support or the change that is happening. there are over 18,000 doctors who have signed up into the system. also 1200 medical facilities, the primary care

facilities, the primary care facilities that are going along with this. if we look at the real numbers, we see that the people of ukraine and most of the doctors of ukraine and most of the doctors of ukraine agree with this. when i was flying here, iwas ukraine agree with this. when i was flying here, i was at the airport and having a copy before my flight in kiev and a gentleman came up to me to shake my hand and said, i am from dniepropetrovsk, i'm a doctor and they give are changing the system because i can finally do for my patients wanted to do. it's a shock therapy to the system, you wa nt to shock therapy to the system, you want to have doctors make a different payment system based on how many patients they have. is this system ready? there is one report —— report from the ukrainian media saying how in odessa, you want to

make this a digital system, it is running up against the fact that in many clinics, they don't have an internet connection. that is one of the requirements to be in the new healthcare the requirements to be in the new healthca re system the requirements to be in the new healthcare system is to have internet and computers so that patients can sign up. can you ove rco m e patients can sign up. can you overcome the inertia, the vested interest that there is in the system as it currently stands, the status quo that you have currently describe so descriptively as failing in your view, the people of ukraine. i asked the question because one of the leading critics of what you are doing is actually from the president, president poroshenko's own party. she has shed —— she has said that your reforms are disasters, will lead to the closure of hospitals, the reduction in the number of doctors and her word, the disappearance of rural medicine and she is an ally of the president. let's step back a bit and remember what the history was when the nhs

was created in 19118. at that time, there was a disaster in the medical system. people were paying for everything out of pocket and when nyah blevins came in and said we are going to create the nhs, creating new system... what happened in britain after the second world war isn't really going to convince people in ukraine in 2018 that your system and your radical reforms and your shock therapy are suited to their means. there is a comparison because when it was started, he was called doctor death. you have been called doctor death. you have been called doctor death by the ukrainian healthcare union. the doctors said it would never work, it was the end of the medical system and 70 years later, the nhs is one of the most successful medical systems in the world. it's the same, when there are

changes happening, those that are against those changes, because they are comfortable in the system that is. the them, they are making a lot of money. they are comfortable in knowing what the rules are because they make the rules. instead, what we are doing is saying there should be equal rules forever on. that they don't have at this point. this is important, not just in don't have at this point. this is important, notjust in the sector of healthcare but to the whole raft of reforms that president poroshenko claims to be determined to push through, to trance format and modernise ukraine. do you think president poroshenko has got your back? i have the support of both the president and the prime minister. it has been from the very beginning, when the law was being passed in parliament. the parliamentary committee on healthca re parliament. the parliamentary committee on healthcare supported the law. the working group went through the entire law and presented

the final reading. the fact that the parliamentary committee has called field sacking and one of the most critical voices against you in the parliament comes from poroshenko's own party, that doesn't give you pause? what would give me pause is if the ukrainian people came out and said that's not what we want, we haven't heard that. we travel to each of the 25 regions in ukraine and met with 10,000 doctors, patients, government officials and spoke to them face—to—face and presented the new plan and the support by the ukrainian people went from 30% in october of 2016 to 72% in august of 2017. so what we have is the support of the ukrainian people and that's what's is the important. the reason i began by teasing out your background and the degree to which your commitment to ukraine came, you know, as a result

of long experience in the united states, and deciding you wanted to be in kiev, the reason that's important is because the political backlash that has come with your determination to push through the reforms has included people like leg liashko, of a populist movement in the ukraine, being personal, saying you have no political accountability and roots in the ukraine and as a result of your work coming in from outside, millions of ukrainians are going to be left without healthcare. do you feel vulnerable because of your background, particularly with this populist message? no, i don't, i don't feel vulnerable at all. i feel the job i don't feel vulnerable at all. i feel thejob i'm doing and the results i'm getting is really all that we need to look at. it's the record, it's what's being done. i wa nt to record, it's what's being done. i want to bring another example of from the uk, mark carney, the governor of the bank of england,

from canada, he took british citizenship and now he's running the bank of england and there's no problem with the fact these from canada. i take your point but i can counter that with several examples of people who have been brought into the ukrainian government from outside to deliver on the reform agenda who have had a very short shelflife. you will know some of them. for example, the finance minister for a them. for example, the finance ministerfor a while, the lithuanian who came in to be economy minister, a real reformer, he lasted i believe less tha n a real reformer, he lasted i believe less than two years and that's of course the biggest headlines created by mikaele such as billy, who was a mate of mr poroshenko's, was invited to run 0dis, the keyboard in the ukraine —— mikhail saakashvili. within months he fell out with the president and now believes the president and now believes the president is a crook —— key port —— of odessa. looking at the ukrainian born women who came to the ukraine to do theirjobs we see they got theirjobs done

to do theirjobs we see they got their jobs done —— to do theirjobs we see they got theirjobs done —— american. she brought in the imf funds to save ukraine when we were in economic crisis and the only reason she left government was because a new government was because a new government came in, new prime minister, and she was no longer asked to be the minister of finance. she didn't leave, she was no longer in the ministry itself. that sort of my point, these people with a reformist track record and a determination to change ukraine, they did last and you may not last either, that sort of what i'm saying —— that's sort of my point. either, that sort of what i'm saying -- that's sort of my point. -- that's sort of. i feel confident the changes we making the right ones. i have invested in ukraine and whether i will be in ukraine as the minister, whether i will be in ukraine as the head of an ngo, in any other capacity, i'm determined to stay the course and to help ukraine and ukrainians get the real reforms they need. right now, healthcare reform is one of the most... is progressing the most quickly of all the other reforms.

indeed. and it's provided hope for a lot of ukrainians that things can really change because if the healthcare system, that, for 20 yea rs, healthcare system, that, for 20 years, hasn't been able to change at all, can be truly changed we know we can change the other aspects of it. interestingly you made a specific point earlier in the conversation i'm a doctor, not a politician, you area i'm a doctor, not a politician, you are a member of the government and i imagine you sit around the government table when poroshenko gets the ministers together to discuss the direction of travel for the ukrainian government. what do you say when you see the government backsliding, it seems to many, on key elements of the reform programme, not least the demand from the imf, the eu, the united states government as well that poroshenko appoints an independent anticorruption judiciary to rule on the anticorru ption efforts anticorruption judiciary to rule on the anticorruption efforts being made by the watchdog in ukraine? well, when i see some of that

backsliding, i get worried because i think that maybe there will be some problems coming in. looking at the corruption problem in ukraine, we have created the national bureau of anticorruption in ukraine. the last reported account i saw, 170 investigations at least are sent to court, but no major convictions of any significant player. the anticorruption any significant player. the anticorru ption prosecutors' any significant player. the anticorruption prosecutors' office helps it to get the cases to court. yes, the last part is having an anticorruption yes, the last part is having an anticorru ption court, yes, the last part is having an anticorruption court, an independent anticorruption court, an independent anticorru ption court, but anticorruption court, an independent anticorruption court, but every court should be an anticorruption court. the anticorru ption court should be an anticorruption court. the anticorruption court in the ukraine, the initial bill has already been submitted to parliament. it still needs to go to committee, it will have amendments made to it. and the imf has looked at it and said they're not happy

with it because again on this question of making sure the court is fully independent, so that it can be free from any pressures from the oligarchs, from the vested interests, from all of these people who have done ukraine down, they're not satisfied with the safeguards and the guarantees that poroshenko's coming up with. again, the bill is in its first stages, there are still amendments that can be made, the committees will be able to make those amendments and i believe that in the end the law that comes out, the court that comes out, will be that which is required by both our international partners, but really most importantly by the ukrainian people because there are also looking for justice people because there are also looking forjustice in many of these cases. if you look at corruption, it's actually a global problem, it's been a problem in very many countries. we've been helped by a lot of our partners because they've been solving those problems. my question is you look around the government cabinet table and you see the defence minister overseeing a

system, defence spending has gone through the roof in the ukraine, more than 5% of gdp, and more than 90% of that spending, billions of dollars, is held secret, there is no transparency, the ukrainian people have no idea who gets that money and how it is spent. is that accept double? what's not acceptable is that there's a war going on in eastern ukraine right now. part of our territory has been illegally annexed and occupied by russian forces in eastern ukraine, part of our territory... forces in eastern ukraine, part of our territory. .. i forces in eastern ukraine, part of our territory... i understand forces in eastern ukraine, part of our territory. .. i understand that but the ukrainian government is surely fighting for values and clean and good governance? yes, it is, but we're also fighting for our security and our defence and not only for our own but that of the western world. if the russians come in and do what they can do in crimea, if putin can do what he does in eastern ukraine what he does in georgia, what he did in your own backyard in salisbury,

where nerve agents are used on people who live on uk soil, that can be done anywhere in the world. people who live on uk soil, that can be done anywhere in the worldlj understand all of that and nobody would belittle the challenges facing the ukraine but surely the message has to be that conflict and hostility cannot be the excuse for the continuation of endeavour corruption and poor governance? that's absolutely true, it's not an excuse, however it makes everything much more challenging. it's much more easily to —— endemic corruption. the other problem that we have is corruption really is the symptom of what the problem is. the problem is the system, the political system that engenders corruption and allows it. you not only have to put in those pieces in place to try to investigate and then put into courts and try the cases for corruption, you need to create a system where corruption is no longer required as a way of life and that's what we're

doing with their healthcare reform and that's what we're doing with education reform and that's what we're doing with pension reform and that's what we're doing with other aspects of life in ukraine. that's what we're doing with other aspects of life in ukrainelj that's what we're doing with other aspects of life in ukraine. i want to end by going back to the beginning, you chose to go to ukraine tojoin beginning, you chose to go to ukraine to join this transformation effort, how long will you persist? we talked of others who frankly tried their hardest and failed and sort of gave up, will you persist or will there come a point when you say this isn't working? i will persist because i believe in ukraine and i believe we should all believe in ukraine, we should trust the fact that ukraine is moving in the right direction, i'm absolutely sure of it and i'll be there all the way through celebrating the great victories and helping ukraine become the great nation that it is. ulana suprun, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. thank you. hello there.

temperatures continue to creep down day—by—day now, closer to the april norm, but by the end of the week it looks like it could be a little bit cooler than the seasonal average. the last 2a hours have been pretty cloudy but again quite mild, we saw a top temperature of 18 across the south—east. the cloud thickened up, though, in the west we saw outbreaks of rain associated with this area of low pressure, which continued its journey eastwards, tending to fragment as the night wears on but eventually it will clear the south—east. maybe one or two showers packing into western scotland, the west of northern ireland, but elsewhere it's going to be a clearer and drier start to wednesday. quite a chilly start as well, certainly chillier than the last few nights we've had. across the north—east of scotland, not that far off from freezing. so, a chilly start to wednesday, but it is going to be a day of sunshine and heavy april showers,

some of them could be quite intense with some hail and thunder mixed in. we start off, though, on a fine note, lots of sunshine around and the showers across western areas from the word go will continue to spread eastwards, becoming more widespread, and into the afternoon this is when they will become quite beefy with hail and thunder, like i mentioned. not all areas could get them, where you have the sunshine you could get temperatures around 1a or 15. when the showers arrive, which will be quite blustery, then it will feel quite cool. those showers continue on into wednesday evening and to some extent during wednesday night but the early hours of thursday it looks like most of the showers will be confined to western areas, some drier interludes further east. and again, another cool night to come, temperatures in low single figures for most of us. for thursday, i think it's a better looking day. a tough cooler, though, winds coming in from a west to north—west direction. most of the showers again will be in northern and western areas, again heavy with hail and thunder mixed in, best of the brightness across the south—east although we could see 1a or 15 in one or two places. now, into friday, we look

to the south—west for this area of low pressure, some uncertainty as to the intensity of this area of low pressure and how far north it's going to get, but the current thinking is it looks like england and wales will of the rain and the strongest of the winds. scotland and northern ireland, a day again of sunshine and heavy showers. a cooler day still, temperatures of nine to maybe 12 or 13 celsius. that's the trend as we head on into the weekend. low pressure will always be nearby, so remaining quite unsettled, with outbreaks of rain, showers, some sunny spells too and notice the blue colours associated with the area of low pressure, meaning it's going to be a little bit cooler than average. hello. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top stories: france and the us agree to work towards a new iran deal, as president trump warns tehran of "big problems" if it revives its nuclear programme. the parents of a severely ill british boy are going to the court of appeal in their battle

over his future care and treatment. remembering the thousands of lives lost. dawn services are held to mark anzac day — australia and new zealand's remembrance day. in business briefing, it's a bumper day for tech earnings with twitter, facebook and ebay reporting. i'll be getting an expert view on twitter — the first out with its numbers.