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tv   Meet the Author  BBC News  April 27, 2018 11:45pm-12:01am BST

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# 0h, oobee—doo # i want to be like you # i want to walk like you...# his first codename was orphan, a man on his own. but in donald maclean, the soviet union had recruited one of the best spies it ever had in the west. his name, along with guy burgess and kim philby, became a byword for determined treachery. admired by his colleagues as a meticulous and brilliant upon that he was also a convinced ideologue. but one with a wayward, carousing spirit. decades after his flight to moscow in 1951, we are still dealing with what roland philipps describes
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as the enigma of donald maclean, in his revelatory new biography, a spy named orphan. the enigma. we are so familiar with this man, and there cambridge spies. we have read the story so often. what is it that you discovered is still uncertain on a still unknown, still uncertain on a still unknown, still waiting to be put in front of us? —— still on sad and still unknown. the enigma of donald maclean to me was that a man who was an intense patriot, and a fabulous civil servant, who went to the top of the foreign office, could at the same time be the single most productive spy of the 1930s and 19405 for productive spy of the 19305 and 19405 for moscow. and
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productive spy of the 1930s and 19405 for moscow. and how he unable, how he was able to hold those two things in check for most of his life, is, to me, the fascination at the centre of it. let'sjust three cup for the centre of it. let'sjust three cupfor our the centre of it. let'sjust three cup for our younger viewers. he famously fled in 1951 with guy burgess. off they went to moscow. a huge scandal. it was the beginning of the unravelling of the story that ensnared kim philby, indian. he fled to moscow in the 19605. —— in the end. but in the period between the 19305 end. but in the period between the 1930s and the early 19505, donald maclean had been stealing and passing to the russians hundreds and hundreds of documents. it was extraordinary. yes, thousands of documents. the most damaging, he served at the british embassy in washington between 1944 in 1948, where he gave away, by no means all that he gave away has been decoded to this day, but he certainly gave away the preparation for the yalta conference that decided the shape of
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post—war europe. after the war, he had an access all areas pass to the atomic energy commission. he was able to say exactly how many bombs the americans were able to build. and i believe he there by enabled the soviets to build their own bomb two years ahead of what was expected. —— thereby. he was in on the planning of nato. he gave away absolutely everything, particularly between 1944 and 1948. you say he was a patriot. but he became an ideological servant of the soviet union. after he fled he didn't show any reluctance to make his life in moscow, to support the soviet union, until the day of his death. how could he hold those two things in balance? i think untilthe could he hold those two things in balance? i think until the cold war got under way properly, after 1945, he could tell himself he was working foran he could tell himself he was working for an ally, which russia indeed was. and throughout his life, and
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also in moscow in the last 30 years of his life, he believes that communism was the only way towards world peace. —— believed. so in fa ct, world peace. —— believed. so in fact, in his mind, his work as a diplomat for britain was not that far away from his ideology in that he believed that peace would be the outcome. we are talking about him 110w outcome. we are talking about him now is a man who had enormous self—control and self—discipline. but there was also a side to him which was extraordinarily uncontrolled, while, drunken binges ofa uncontrolled, while, drunken binges of a gargantuan nature. —— wild. absolutely. his last drunken binge, when he was in a foreign posting, was in cairo in 1950. he and his great friend philip toynbee drank six bottles of gin before passing out, trashing a us diplomat‘s flat. and yet what struck me as extraordinary was one of the ways i
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got into the book was through the newly released files, these previously classified files from the national archives, and that simply did not go on his record at all. because they wanted to cover up broke a leg they respected? they respected him. —— cover—up for a colleague they respected. he was a brilliant diplomat, they said he had a watchmaker‘s mind. i wouldn't have believed it of him, and they wanted to cover it up. the other shocking thing which came out in the files about that particular incident was that they blamed his american wife. they said, you know how these americans like to hit it up. so there is this extraordinary insular empire view, and his bosses were people of the empire. you have a personal connection, because your grandfather was his boss towards the end. and presumably, local people in the foreign office, he admired him as somebody who could do the job very well? —— like all people. absolutely. and my grandfather went
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to the very top of the foreign office, he got the equivalentjobs ata office, he got the equivalentjobs at a much older rage than donald maclean, which makes me think that donald maclean certainly would have gone to the top of the foreign office. my grandfather was one of the circle who were told, when they had incontrovertible evidence, that he had been spying, that he was —— had been spying, he was one of the people who was told, and was told to act as normal. so donald maclean, who by then was head of the american department in the foreign office, during the korean war, extraordinarily enough, asked for the day off, my grandfather, who had been told to act as normal, said of course he could. and that was the day that he escaped to russia. because what the diplomats were not told was that although m15 were watching him, comedy watches waved him off at the train every evening when he went home to his house in kent, and they didn't watch him at weekends, because they thought they
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would be too noticeable in the village where he lived. so although they were told he was being watched, not at all. one of the extraordinary aspects of this book, which is a gripping story, is the role played by his wife melinda, who has been a shadowy figure in previous tellings of this story. as somebody who was there, and presumably betrayed, and her husband just disappeared. new portrait in a different light, basically saying that she was in on it, if not from the beginning, certainly for most of it? yes. i found material where donald maclean said that when he first met her in paris in 1939, that she thought he was rather a dull diplomat, and it was rather a dull diplomat, and it was then that he told her he was also working for the communists. and she fell in with that. at after his defection she was very much pitied as the betrayed wife, as you say, the deserted woman with a young family. but the papers that came out
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of the national archives, which included the telephone wiretaps, indicated that actually she was very much in on the defection. she pretended not to know who this man who guy burgess was, who went off with her husband, but the wiretaps showed her lying on the telephone two days after he went to her mother—in—law without saying that donald had taken off. so it does paint her in a different light. and of course, several years later she herself went to russia, just after stalin died, when it would have been safer for stalin died, when it would have been saferfor her, stalin died, when it would have been safer for her, and then the establishment were really astonished. why is it that we remain so gripped by this story, the outcome of which we all know?|j think outcome of which we all know?” think it is because it was the first enormous crack in the establishment.
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that he could escape, which i think is why the establishment also failed to spot him, because they couldn't bear this fact. the fact that he could betray his country so monumentally, we all thought we were being run by people who knew what they were doing. one last question. if he had welcomed you or somebody like you in moscow, and you sat down and have a drink with him, not one of his famous bingers butjust an ordinary social drinks, what do you think he would have been like?” think he would have been like?” think he would have been quite austere. politically very committed. and socially committed, too. i don't think he would have got manyjokes, but i think he would have felt he was a man of enormous integrity and a very, very fascinating figure. roland philipps, author of a spy
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named orphan, thank you very much. thank you. hello once again. not the most sparkling of days, certainly not in my neck of the woods anyway. hopefully it was more cheerful for you. i know there was some sunshine across the north and west of scotla nd across the north and west of scotland and other spots in the west as well. poor old barbara in bromley was right in the midst of it. in the midst of what? this area of low pressure and it's attending fronts was the feature which spread rain across some spots through the course of the day. it is there to start the day and to start the weekend, so rather cool and windy and rather cloudy as well. some sunshine further away from that area of low pressure. but it will be a chilly start for scotla nd pressure. but it will be a chilly start for scotland and northern ireland. enough cloud for there to be bits and pieces of rain around. i
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don't think change will happen to dramatically as we go through the day. i am just going to take you in towards the south and put the detailed model up so you can see the detailed model up so you can see the detail of the showers as we perceive it at the moment. a sprinkling along the southern shores, in central and western parts of wales into the north—west of england, northern ireland, western and northern parts of scotla nd ireland, western and northern parts of scotland seeing the bulk of the shower activity. persistent rain anywhere between the humber and the wash. now i can take you out to the big picture again, and show you the big picture again, and show you the big picture again, and show you the big picture on the temperature front which is on special at all. that is below par for this which is on special at all. that is below parfor this time which is on special at all. that is below par for this time of year. if you are stepping out in the evening things are not changing too rapidly. i think you will be upgraded part of the night before you see the last of those showers across western areas. that rain will take its time to fizzle away. at least there will be residual cloud in the east to keep temperatures up. not the case across scotland, northern ireland and the north—west of england, where you will start sunday with a touch of frost. again, that means a bit of sunshine. as the skies clear and the
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sunshine. as the skies clear and the sun comes up, that will not be the case, iam sun comes up, that will not be the case, i am afraid. manager expectations across the greater part of england and wales. later in the day we will increase the cloud in the south—east and this is the first sign of monday's wet and windy weather. those temperatures are none too special in their own right. and from sunday on into monday it is a new area of low pressure, throwing these weather fronts up and across. i say the south—eastern quarter but i'm being generous with that definition. the greater part of england, save devon and cornwall, thatis england, save devon and cornwall, that is really going to be quite wet and windy and it will be potentially disruptive as well. lots going on. more details of course on the bbc website. goodbye for now. this is bbc world news. i'm duncan golestani. our top stories: donald trump welcomes the successful summit of north and south korea, but says there'll be no letup on pyongyang yet: maximum pressure will continue until denuclearisation
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occurs. i look forward to our meeting. it should be quite something. the meeting between kimjong—un and president moonjae—in was full of warmth and promises. translation: we are one nation, when we met we realise we cannot be parted. we are one nation. translation: we declare there will be no war in korea, and the new age of peace has begun. after talks at the white house , the german chancellor says
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