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he's chairman of the pakistan people's party, founded by his grandfather 50 years ago. the ppp has seen its popularity plummet in recent years. can bilawal bhutto—zardari restore its fortunes and turn around a political legacy tarnished by allegations of corruption, patronage, and incompetence? bilawal bhutto—zardari, welcome to hardtalk.

thanks for having me, zeinab. your grandfather was executed, your mother assassinated, you've received death threats. why put yourself on the frontline of politics like this? thank you very much, zeinab. you know, three days after my mother's assassination, in december of 2007, the party's central executive committee decided that i was to be the co—chairman of the pakistan people's party... along with your father, asif ali zardari. yes. at that time, the country was in chaos. from karachi to kashmir, the people were rioting — the country was burning. and the party asked and i, it wasn't exactly something that i could turn down. i stepped up and did what i had to do. my mother often said that she didn't choose this life,

it chose her. and i believe the same applies to me. i'm committed to trying to complete my mother's incomplete mission for a peaceful, prosperous and democratic pakistan. your mother was in self—imposed exile before she went back to pakistan in 2007. i saw her a couple of months before she was assassinated, and i asked her why go back to pakistan when you've received these death threats? and she said to me, you know, zeinab, i feel it is my duty, as you just said, to go back. she was very fatalistic about what might happen to her. did she ever discuss the possibility that she might die with you or your two younger sisters? 0bviously, that's a very difficult conversation to have with anyone. i think everyone was aware of the risks. she would often say that you don't get to choose when you die. we have faith, particularly from our religion, that it's written down. and she would often joke that

i could die walking across a street in london as well. she believed in the cause she was fighting for, for a democratic pakistan, and she was warning our nation of the threats of extremism and terrorism. and at a time when all of pakistan's politicians weren't speaking up, my mother spoke up and was a beacon of hope for the people of pakistan. but neverthless, she was your mother, as well as this iconic political figure for many people. did you feel any anger and resentment about what she did, and the fact that you and your sisters ended up losing your mother? absolutely. i was completely and utterly devastated. and, even though i come from a family, my grandfather was assassinated, both my uncles were assassinated, as a political party, our workers, various political leaders have been assassinated for the cause that they fight for. something that completely broke us.

but rather than pursue a politics of hate and revenge, my mother raised me differently. as i said, three days after my mother's assassination, i was elected chairman, and instead of calling for revenge, instead of playing off the anger of the people of pakistan, the supporters of the pakistan people's party, i said that "democracy is the best revenge", and tried to convert our grief into a cause. and we're working towards that sort of greater aim. but it was a great shock. there you were living in dubai, you were brought up mostly in dubai... i was at university. oxford university, yeah. i was a freshman at oxford university. i had just completed my first freshman term at oxford university when this devastating news came through. how did you learn about her death? uh, we were in actually dubai at the time. my mother had recently had a conversation with my father

and with myself that, my father had been in dubai with us, and they decided to split the risks, he would stay abroad and she would take the political risk. but given the increasing risk, they'd taken the decision that he too was to come back. and we were literally having a conversation when the news appeared on the... and what was your last conversation with your mother? actually, i'd... she — i discussed with her her voice. she'd been campaigning all over the country. she was a very charismatic speaker, she spoke from the heart. 0bviously, after a very long campaign, her voice had gone away. it was sort of raspy and things. i said to her you have to have lemon and honey in her tea. and she was like, "yeah, ok, i'll do that." that was the last conversation we had. so you want to see justice over her death, because up until now, the only people who've been punished over her death are two

policeman, who were found guilty of cleaning the area where she'd been killed in rawalpindi. nobody in connection with her actual assassination. yeah, absolutely. it is a great travesty ofjustice. there was a very strong case, that included a united nations investigation report, pakistan's own investigation, which included not only dna results, dna test evidence that placed the suicide bomber with his alleged accomplices. the terrorists themselves, the self—confession, the accused people that showed no remorse. it was a 15—year—old boy who was found, whose remains were blown up... yes, but he... but it was those higher up that nobody knows. absolutely, but those who were caught, though. the accomplices. the ones that... there are five, in detention, awaiting trial. they were acquitted. mr musharraf, who was not there... you're talking about president musharraf, at the time, who was...

who was also accused and charged with this crime. but you know the legal proceedings, i have to say, against pervez musharraf have stalled, and whenever there's allegations... this is the same case where they let the terrorists off despite there being self—confessions from the accused, despite there being dna evidence. it's the same case. they ignore musharraf's plan, they've let him run away from the country, and instead of giving a decision against him, they've said, "when he comes back, we'll decide what happens to him." but we know whenever these allegations that he was involved in benazir bhutto's death, he laughs off those allegations and says no involvement whatsoever on his part. he does concede, however, that there were rogue elements in the deep state, in the deep establishment, who may have been colluding with elements of the pakistan taliban to assassinate your mother. just want to put that straight. that's what he claims. yeah. but the united nations report states that her security was undermined, and mr musharraf threatened my mother. that's also on record. well, he denies that he denies that he had that conversation on the phone with her, threatening her.

yes, but there are witnesses. it's been presented in court that he threatened my mother. she's on record, she told me, and i know she didn't lie to me... i'lljust say, on the record, that... that's fair enough. all right. when he's here, he can defend himself. pervez musharraf says no. he says no, as dictators and murderers often do. if it was the case, why is he running away from the court cases and not coming home to face the charges? and it's not only my mother's case where he's accused. he's accused of bombing and killing the former chief minister of balochistan. we can't try... 0k. he's been charged with treason but is not appearing in any of these cases. he's in self—imposed exile in dubai, but i have to put on the record as i said that he denies all of that. yes, he denies. he says he's not a murderer and not a dictator. not a dictator?! is that also in doubt? ok, i mean... this is a new alternative facts that... no. just putting out what he would say. but i want to ask you this, bilawal bhutto—zardari, your father became president soon after your mother's death in 2008, because he was co—chair of the ppp.

and if the investigation was to proceed smoothly, if there was to be no coverup, he could have done something about that, because he was president. that's why, as president of... but why didn't he? that‘s what i... he did. and as president of pakistan, for the first time in our history, our country went all the way to the united nations for an investigation. now, the case that we have against the accused is very strong. can ijust so back a bit? you mentioned the un commission, which your father asked... not only the un commission. that's not the — there's an investigation and a case against... your own investigation at the bbc has said that it's a strong case. it points to the fact that dna evidence has been ignored, that's a very serious allegation. but... in the same case, after our government was wound up — completed its term,

the chief prosecutor was assassinated. in this case, my mother, who had a very strong case against mr musharraf. the seven judges changed hands in this case. a case that should have been decided, according to the law, within two weeks instead took ten years. and that is a travesty ofjustice we haven't got... you haven't got justice yet for your mother. i understand that. but the un commission president, heraldo munoz, says there were many people in the establishment they wanted to interview but they refused. he also said some of the obstacles were not from the military but government ministers too. he said the un team... he was unable to access... he said the un team's security was withdrawn... he was unable to access... your father was president at the time. absolutely. i don't want to get into how... these government ministers were also ppp ministers. i don't want to get into... yeah, the government ministers, abolutely, let me please explain. i'm not trying to deny that. they were ministers of the government.

if they failed to produce people, that is our failing that we failed to produce the individuals that they wanted to produce. but the report also mentions the fact that they did not get access to these certain individuals did not undermine their ability to produce a report. to produce the report. all right. so did yourfather... it had no consequences on the credibility of the report, on the accusations in the report, which directly accuse my mother's security of being undermined. all right. you've made that clear. we've dealt with your accusations and pervev musharraf, what his response would be. but let's talk about the party founded by your grandfather, the ppp. he was executed 1979 by the military under martial law. so we have a history of military dictators assassinating, that you keep denying. but it's on the record. well, all right. ok, that's what you're saying.

it's on the record. all right. but is it fair to say that the ppp is run like a personalfiefdom of the bhutto family? an accusation of dynastic politics is reality in pakistan. i will not debate the merits of demerits of that, because any modern society will want to promote a meritocratic system. but we at the ppp did not pursue the path of dynastic politics by choice. if my grandfather wasn't assassinated, if my mother was not assassinated, my grandfather would be the one doing politics, my mother would be in the foreign office, and i'd still be a student. every other political party that relies on dynastic politics in pakistan have not suffered assassination, but still brothers, sisters etcetera a re running the shop. so that's what you say on the dynastic argument, but... i also told you that three days after my mother's assassination, we'd just buried the body, the central executive committee of the party asked me, it's not something i could have refused. i stood up and did what i had to do. in time, ifelt i would prove myself. you felt that you were impelled to do it. and my party is the one that gets to decide who leads them. and they obviously felt

that they trusted me the most to continue my mother's mission. all right, an editorial on the german tv station deutsche welle‘s website in october 2016 said your future "is weak because benazir bhutto's ppp does not exist any more, it died with her in 2007." obviously, the assasination of my mother, benazir bhutto, did not only leave a huge vacuum within the pakistan people's party, but also in the body politics of pakistan. and not only her assassination, but the climate in our politics at the moment in pakistan. it's filled with extremism, partisanship and a hate—driven politics, that i refuse to engage in. perhaps in the short term... but it's what's going on in the ppp that it's referring to. let me tell you something else it says, this website. it quotes nahid khan, who was one of benazir‘s closest aides, she fell out with your father when he became president and became co—chair of the party. she'd actually fell out with my mother before she was assassinated.

well, let my tell you what she said, "the present ppp leadership is only interested in power and has abandoned the ppp ideology." she's saying that you have forgotten your slogan of food, shelter, clothing, shelter, democracy, islam, and economic socialism, which is very much the mantra of the ppp, and it has lost its roots. i would disagree with her, obviously. she is our opponent, she runs in elections, and she has the right to criticise. the pakistan people's party are committed to the same idea. i am committed and i will fight for the ideals, i will die for them. she ignores issues that face the people of pakistan from extremism to poverty to financial chaos. the pakistan people's party and myself thinking to advocate for these principles, we are not in government today, we are in opposition, but we are doing what we can from the opposition's respect. yourfather had an important role in the party and the american pakistan

journalists says the political career has been scripted by his father and members of his team. "he could revive his mother's party if he breaks free from his father's influence and takes charge of the ppp." bilawal, who is in control of the ppp — you or yourfather? in democratic parties, you work together and make decisions through consensus. myself, my father don't dictate decisions. we have a central executive committee of the party that makes party policy, that decides party policy, and we implement that policy. as far as my political career is concerned, i'm in no rush and i'm not worried. i'm 29 years old and i'm in this for the long haul. are you in control of the party or is your father in control of the party or do you work together? we work together. we absolutely work together. but pakistan and the pakistan people's party faces a lot of challenges.

these challenges aren't going to be defeated in a single day. you have to be committed for the long haul. one of your challenges is that your popularity‘s really plummeting as a party. the last elections in 2013, you won 14—7 seats, and the ruling party, the pml—n — pakistan muslim league—nawaz — got 189 seats. even in a by—election in lahore, where your party was born, recently the partyjust had a fraction of votes, and part of the problem is that the ppp's being seen as mired in corruption, the masses feel that, the opposition politician, imran khan, has called yourfather "the biggest illness of sindh province," and he talks about asif ali zardari's wealth has skyrocketed, and it's these kind of allegations swirling around your party... let me address the three different things you have brought up. first is the 2013 general elections. let me allow to contextualise

what happened in the 2013 general elections. the taliban, the terrorists had called out the pakistan people's party and said, "we will not allow them to campaign. we will attack them." my candidates were kidnapped, the prime minister's son was kidnapped, the former governor's son was kidnapped. they also took other political parties‘ names. they took imran khan's pti, muslim league—nawaz and jamaat—e—islami. in their case, they said these are our allies, they will have a free hand and they can run. on top of that, the pakistan people's party was the first government to complete a civilian term and conduct a peaceful transfer of power. we went against a whole host of antidemocratic interests within pakistan to reform and pass the 18th amendment. we were not allowed to campaign. the political chiefjustice at the time, who has now gone on to form his own political party, stopped my father from campaigning. so good or bad... even in the by—elections a few months ago, you only got a handful of votes.

that's your stronghold. that's not my stronghold — i'm getting there. i meant lahore, the province. if you please...so that was the 2013 election. you won't allow to campaign. you show me how, whether it's any american president, any british party, if their leadership is not allowed to campaign, they're under attack from terrorists, and everybody else is given a free hand, there are going to be consequences to that. but polls still show consistently that the pml—n, you know, nation poll shows that your vote is not as high as the ruling party. as far as the by—elections are concerned, you refer to an older by—election. the last by—election that took place on the border of south punjab and sindh was the kotki by—election. in that by—election, we won by a lead of 12,000 points. but at the end of the... what about the corruption allegations? i'm so glad you brought me on to that, because this political victimisation has gone on throughout my mother's and father's political life.

there were umpteen cases brought against them. my father spent 11.5 years in prison without a conviction. each and every single case brought against my parents — it took us 30 years, we fought it out — each and every case, they have been acquitted. after that, that was when my father didn't enjoy power. it was after that that he became the most powerful civilian president in pakistan's history. for those 5—year terms, there has been accusations and lies, not a single case has been brought against my father. i'm sure imran khan will say that he doesn't tell lies. he would say that, but he does. just putting that out there. it's on the record. alright, putting that out there. so looking there now, here you are, chairman of the ppp, you've got these elections injuly for the national assembly, you want to do well yourself, voters want you to address those basic development issues i talked about — food, shelter, clothing, education, health and all the rest of it. is that the key plank now of your campaign platform? i'm so glad you asked me that, because that's exactly what my slogan is for the next general election — food, clothing and shelter, education, health and jobs for all.

the pakistan people's party is focused on the issues. so bread and butter issues — you're focused on that. so you're seen as, obviously, you're a young man, seen as very progressive in your thinking, on women's rights, on minorities rights and so on. you've got some rather eye—catching policies as well, on foreign policy for instance. you believe in military action against the taliban in pakistan. i mean, is that a good idea, do you think, when you see that neighbouring afghanistan, ashraf ghani there is saying, "well, you know, we may need to negotiate with some elements of the taliban." you're deliberately taking a very different tack there. my — absolutely. i feel that actually pakistan has been solely focusing on the military component against extremism, and it needs to be a broader approach. we absolutely have to, you know, people who challenge our state, to take up arms against the state, we have to challenge them militarily. but we need a holistic overall approach that doesn't only focus on terrorism, but also focuses on countering extremism, which would require education

reform, curriculum reform, police reform, judicial reform and providing economic opportunity — equal economic opportunity. this is the overall comprehensive package that i believe the pakistan people's party can lead and provide, whereas the current government has been led behind, they've only been reacting to events and haven't been leading on the issue of extremism and terrorism, which was the number one most fundamental threat to pakistan's existence. touching on kashmir very quickly — you said, "i'll take back kashmir, all of it, and not leave behind a single inch of it because, like other provinces, it belongs to pakistan." i wasn't — i want to clarify — i was talking in a political context of winning elections, but i'm going to speak about the kashmir issue nonetheless. it wasn't a pakistani prime minister. it was the pm of india who took the kashmir issues to the united nations security council, which calls for a plebiscite. it's not the pakistani constitution alone, it's the indian constitution that says kashmir gives us a special designation as a result

of its disputed territory. unfortunately, india refuses to talk about kashmir. you're going to be at loggerheads with india, though, on that path, aren't you? my point is that we can't ignore the united nations. we can't continue to close our eyes to what's happening in kashmir. it's the age of social media. we can't hide the young generation. the kashmiris are coming out on the streets, protesting for their rights, and they're being attacked with pellet guns, and human rights atrocities, the people of kashmir are screaming that the butcher has become the butcher of kashmir and the world international committee is turning a blind eye. we have to engage on issues. i want peace with india, but in order to accomplish that, we can't ignore the elephants in the room. so we were talking about you entering politics, you said you felt you had to, do what you're doing now. do you feel that it's a burden on you? look, there's no greater pride in a son's life to know, to feel that he is working towards accomplishing his

mother's unfulfilled mission. that is what motivates me, that's what drives me. of course it's challenging. pakistan is one of the most difficult countries on the planet to do politics. my entire family has been assassinated, workers and leaders of my party have been assassinated... are you worried about your own safety? i have a lot of security and i feel secure. but the fact of the matter is that i feel passionately that the people of pakistan deserve equal opportunity, they deserve a progressive country, where regardless of whether you're rich or poor, male or female, muslim or non—muslim, you have equal rights and equal opportunities. do you think you'll become prime minister? my aim is to achieve my ideology and my goals — that is my motivation. it is not a desire or a simple desire to become prime minister of pakistan. bilawal bhutto—zardari, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. thank you so much for having me. such a pleasure. hello.

there's warmer weather on the way for the bank holiday weekend. for most of us, it's looking dry, as well, with increasing sunshine as the weekend goes on. we're not quite there yet, though, this weather front went through on wednesday, with some rain followed by showers. this weather front is coming in from the west thursday, though by no means all of us will get rain from it. but even from the word go, in the morning, that bit of patchy rain for parts of northern ireland and western scotland, whilst for many, particularly across eastern parts, it will be clear, it will be sunny once the sun is up, but it will be chilly, with low single figures in places,

and that sunshine will be lost to increasing cloud as we go into the afternoon. from the cloud for northern ireland, western scotland, some spots north—west england, and a few in wales, there will be some patchy rain around, shouldn't amount to too much. and a brisk breeze blowing across the northern half of the uk, moderate to fresh west—south—westerly wind. around 10—14 degrees for most places, as high as 17 in south—east england. even into the afternoon, even into the evening, southern and eastern parts of the uk will see a few breaks in that cloud, allowing a bit of sunshine to come through. now, as we go on through thursday night and into friday morning, a lot of cloud around away from east anglia and south—east england, but even here, under clear skies, not as chilly as it will be first thing thursday. so a milder start on friday. a lot of cloud around, misty, murky in places. some outbreaks of rain, particularly affecting the north and north—west of scotland. this little piece of energy runs away northwards. still a bit of drizzle, i think, parts of western scotland and northern ireland.

but for many, friday will be a dry day, if not a particularly sunny day. but, when the sun comes through the cloud, occasionally it is going to feel warmer. notice those temperatures are starting to edge up. and that is the process that accelerates into the weekend, with high pressure for most of us, though the further north—west you are, you're still close to weather fronts. with breeze, it's going to be cooler here compared with elsewhere, especially north—west scotland. but, for most of the weekend, this includes the bank holiday, it'll be fine, it'll be dry, and it will be getting warmer. just take a look at saturday and sunday for now. on saturday, i think some cloud to begin the day. rather misty and murky in places, and cloud could increase in northern ireland and western scotland. north—west scotland beginning to see some outbreaks of rain coming in. but for most it'll be dry, and a few spots start to get above 20 celsius. and then for part two of the weekend, on sunday, could be some rain affecting mainly the north of northern ireland, running through central parts of scotland for a time, whereas england and wales are looking dry. and again that sunshine starting to break out more widely, even more so by the bank holiday, along with that welcome, for many of us, warmth.

welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories: facing bankruptcy. the company at the heart of the facebook data scandal, cambridge analytica, announces it's shutting down. wwe have the details. america's new top diplomat mike pompeo is sworn in and says he'll be "tough" on iran and russia. there's a pledge too on north korea. we have the unprecedented opportunity to change the course of history on the korean peninsula. we will not repeat the mistakes of the past. a bad deal is not an option. after weeks of anti—government protests, armenia's parliament prepares to vote. it looks likely the protest leader will be the new prime minister. and nearly 4,000 artefacts smuggled into the united states are heading back to iraq.