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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  May 16, 2018 4:30am-5:00am BST

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the united states says it's still planning a meeting next month between president trump and the north korean leader, kim jong—un, despite the north suspending talks with south korea. the north said joint us—south korean military exercises, currently taking place, were a threat and should stop. dozens of funerals have been taking place in the gaza strip for palestinians killed on monday by israeli forces. two more people were killed on tuesday during demonstrations on the border. at the un security council in new york, there were angry exchanges between israeli and palestinian envoys. there's further uncertainty over whether meghan markle‘s father will attend saturday's wedding between his daughter and prince harry, the sixth in line to the british throne. an american magazine is reporting that thomas markle is to undergo urgent heart surgery on wednesday. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk.
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welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. donald trump's decision to dump the nuclear deal with iran has presented the tehran government with a choice. does it make a concerted effort to keep the agreement intact, along with the other signatories, or does it ramp up its nuclear programme and hang the consequences? like yesterday as a former spokesman for imran‘s nuclear negotiation team, seyed hossein mousavian. in the face of intense pressure from the us, israel and saudi arabia, how will iran respond? hossein mousavian at princeton
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university, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let's start with that decision by donald trump to walk away from the international agreement on a run‘s nuclear programme. how well—prepared you think the reigning government was for that decision? i think they were very well—prepared because from the beginning, the majority of the uranium establishments, they believed that the us would not stick with its commitments, especially when president trump took office. —— iranian. and he announced publicly a regime change against iran, confronting the region. everybody could understand in tehran that he
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was not going to stick with the nuclear deal. is a blow for president rouhani and a vindication i suppose for supreme leader ali khamenei, who had always said that this deal, albeit reluctantly signed, would not see america change its policy towards the country, nor keep its promises. actually, since the revolution in 1979 in iran, there are two schools of thought in relation to the us. the first one is you cannot trust the us and you should not negotiate with the us because the us will never stick to any commitment agreed in any deal, therefore it is better than ever to negotiate with the us. the second school of thought has been saying that yes, you cannot trust the us, but we have too many difficulties, too many dispute is, and some common interest issues in the region and
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beyond, and it is better to start to have a direct negotiations and to see whether americans would comply with their commitments or not. actually, after over three decades, the nuclear issue was the first issue ever iran and the us had negotiated at a very, very high level, and they agreed on a very comprehensive package. it was not at the same time, as you know, it was not a bilateral agreement, although the us played a major role to reach this agreement, it was an international agreement. the europeans, they invested since 2003 in these negotiations and also, it had the international atomic energy agency backup solution, and moreover and more importantly, it had the un
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resolution backup. yes, all of that is true, hossein mousavian but now of course, given that the united states is the biggest player and barack 0bama of course was a key move in getting the deal done, now that the united states has moved away, iran has to calculate whether there is still life left in the deal and weather the economic gains that we re and weather the economic gains that were pa rt of and weather the economic gains that were part of that deal can still be made without the united states, and thatis made without the united states, and that is why foreign minister, mr mohammad javad zarif has been in moscow, now in european capitals, talking to the uk, germany and france. do you think iran has faith that the europeans can continue to stick to the agreement and can give iran the benefits it needs from the deal in economic terms? it is really a big moment in iran the eu relations because as you know, i have been dealing with european iran
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that relations since the mid—19 80s and always, there was a big question ina and always, there was a big question in a violent weather europe is independent from the us, whether iran can have a separate, independent, good relationship with the european union or not. —— 1980s. the european union or not. ——1980s. iran has decided to stick with the deal with europe, plus russia, plus china. if i'm a interrupts, iran has not made the decision to stick with the deal without conditions. the conditions laid out by mr rouhani... no, no, you write exactly. deal laid out by mr rouhani last week was ok, we we will wait a few weeks before ramping up our nuclear enrichment. we will wait and negotiate with our friends, who signed the agreement, to wait and see what they can
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deliver for us, to wait and see what they can deliverfor us, so to wait and see what they can deliver for us, so clearly the clear implication... that is exactly what i was going to say. iran has decided to stick with the deal. if they can deliver the commitments for staying in the nuclear deal. it means is the europeans, china and russia, they can fulfil whatever commitments they are committed within the nuclear deal, which is more about iranian economic relations with europe, china and russia, then iran would stay with the deal. so let's get real, if you don't mind, mr hossein mousavian. look at the way the international trade works, in particular the oil business, denominated in us dollars, where financial transactions tend to be donein financial transactions tend to be done in us dollars and us ranking and institutions are so important. look also at the multilateral business arrangements made by companies like boeing and airbus, where europeans are part of a much bigger trading picture, which
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involves the americans. then consider that the white house has been quite clear they are going to impose secondary sanctions on those companies that continue to do business with iran in the future and that have a stake in the united states as well. so, as the german foreign minister said the other day, he saidi foreign minister said the other day, he said i do not see any simple solution to shield our companies from all the risks of american sanctions. obviously, we're in a very, very complicated situation. that is why the iranian supreme leader publicly said we cannot trust the us, we cannot trust the europeans because he really doubted whether the europeans would be able to do the deal or not. whether the europeans would be able to do the deal o and. whether the europeans would be able to do the deal o and despite the us the nuclear deal and despite the us departure, they would stick with the deal and it will be implemented. it means that they will be able to, or
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they should be able to maintain normal economic relations with iran. let's just be really clear about this. do you think the europeans have the capacity and the will to ta ke have the capacity and the will to take on the americans on this issue? and not just use take on the americans on this issue? and notjust use the rhetoric backing the deal but actually commit to continuing the economic relationships and taking whatever punishments the americans mete out if necessary? yeah, i think the europeans, they have political will but i really doubt whether they have the capacity. this is something we have to wait to see, but there are ways for europeans. you remember in the mid—19 90s when the us imposed sanctions with a territorial impact on iran and the europeans, they decided to pass blocking regulations
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in order to support european business with iran and to resist the us extraterritorial behaviours. this is one issue, whether the european union would revive relations or not, this is one issue. second, whether iran and the eu would be able to manage the financial system. they do business in euros, not in dollars, because whenever the business is in dollars, it comes to new york for a u—turn and he would have a problem with the us. but if we can have business in europe, then we would face much less capacity for the us to grow for punishment. all right, so to grow for punishment. all right, so you'll view is... to grow for punishment. all right, so you'll view is. .. the europeans, whether they would be able to do it 01’ whether they would be able to do it or not, i really do not know. your view is that it is going to be very difficult. explain to be one thing,
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if it is going to be very difficult and the europeans have an important decision now to make about how far they can go in trying to make this deal stick, why on earth would the iranian government choose this particular moment too, for example, confront the british government with a particular human rights case which makes it very difficult for the british government to work with iran? iam british government to work with iran? i am thinking of course of the woman, a british woman who is locked up woman, a british woman who is locked up inside iran. she has been locked up up inside iran. she has been locked upfor up inside iran. she has been locked up for more than two years, she faces a five—year jail sentence up for more than two years, she faces a five—yearjail sentence for plotting against the regime at a trial which the british government saw as completely unjust and unacceptable, and now we have the iranian attorney general saying that a second case filed against this woman is still open and her sentence might even be elongated. if the iranians need the europeans, why on earth would they be doing this sort
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of thing? we always have had other disputes on human rights, on the peace process, on weapons of mass destruction, on regional issues. this is not only one case, therefore we need to have a broader dialogue between iran and the eu, like the model they use for the deal. jcpoa really is a good model because only one of the disputes between iran and the european union and the us and international community... it is about trust though. it is about trust, isn't it? yeah, it is about trust. but how can the europeans trust. but how can the europeans trust iran when the government continues to imprison women like the british woman who went to visit her family, who according to all
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observers at that iran is in no way guilty of the crime she has been convicted of an just appears to europeans to be an egregious human rights abuse? let's be very frank. europeans, any time that something happens to one of their citizens and ah van, at their assumption and conclusion at the first minute is that they are innocent and the iranian government is guilty, even if, for example, american hikers, the answer iran illegally and this is definitely a crime, this is breaking law, the american government says i know, they are innocent and this is a human rights issue. —— iran. therefore, as far as the americans and europeans, they have no respect for the legal system of ah van and immediatelyjump up, then we're not going to resolve any humanitarian issues. ok, then let's persist with trust a little longer.
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0ne persist with trust a little longer. one of the issues that was proposed by the israelis and clearly they we re by the israelis and clearly they were working in some sort of association with the americans in the sense that it helped the americans politically, benjamin netanyahu came americans politically, benjamin neta nyahu came out americans politically, benjamin netanyahu came out with a dossier of lea ked netanyahu came out with a dossier of leaked information that the intelligence services had got from iran, which revealed years and years of lies that iran had told going back to the early 2000 is about the nature of its nuclear programme. the point was not so much that this was new because we knew that the lies are being told, indeed the lies were being told and you were part of the nuclear negotiation team. but the german end point today was that the israelis have looked, this documentation is a vast amount of research within the so—called project about the weaponisation of nuclear materials that the iranian ‘s had been working on. it was taken and put in a secret they location, showing that the iranian ‘s had no
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intention of abandoning their long—term programme to acquire nuclear missiles. what do you say to that? ina in a steve, i have documented in my book iranian nuclear crisis, every two years, the israeli have delivered, the prime minister, the defence minister and the foreign minister, iran will reach nuclear power in two years. you can read my state m e nts power in two years. you can read my statements from the 1990s, this is being israeli policy to continuously say iran is after the nuclear bomb and iran would reach the nuclear bomb in two, three years. your member 2013... bomb in two, three years. your member 2013. .. we don't need to know... prime minister netanyahu was... we don't need every different detail of the long, vexed issue of iran and nukes but i ask you, would
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you acknowledge... yes. iran does not tell the truth about all its nuclear programmes in the past and what it's done with the research and the date. steve, the iranian problem is with the fact that the europeans really don't know what is your criteria. for years and years and yea rs, criteria. for years and years and years, you are inviting iran to respect international rules, regulations and organisations. 0n the nuclear issue, it is clear the sole agency responsible to assess and to give a statement on nuclear programme of any country in the world is international atomic energy agency. also, the united nations security council. when we have reached a deal, from the date of implementation, january 2016, the iaea, international atomic energy
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agency, steve, 11 times... i understand that. publicly, that iran has complied with its commitment in the nuclear deal and there is no evidence of violating the deal and agreement at all. i want to get this clear. hassan rouhani indicated that if he does not get satisfaction of the four plus one signatories sticking to thejcpoa as it currently stands, if you doesn't get satisfaction, he will press the green light on iran ramping up its uranium enrichment programme and various programmes immediately and implication is iran is in a position where it can notjust restart the programme, but it can massively expanded very quickly. is that true? c, steve, if the us is going to withdraw from the deal, if the europeans are not going to limit their commitments and violate the
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deal, if the p five plus one cannot deliver their commitments, it is really justified for a deliver their commitments, it is reallyjustified for a run to part from the deal because the deal cannot be lamented unilaterally —— unilaterally from the iranian side and it's not realistic to expect iran unilaterally to implement the deal it the us and other world powers cannot deliver their commitments. number one. number two, a europeans would not be able to deliver and they would fail, they would follow the us and they would have to stop their economic relations with iran or to minimise it. then they would push iran to leave the deal but iran is a member of the non—proliferation treaty. iran would remain as a member of the non—proliferation treaty. the main criteria is non—proliferation treaty. as long as iran is going to bea
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treaty. as long as iran is going to be a member of the non—proliferation treaty, as long as iran is going to permit the iaea inspectors to visit its nuclear programme based on safeguards and iaea regulations, therefore, and the other members of npt, 180 therefore, and the other members of npt,180 members of npt, therefore, and the other members of npt, 180 members of npt, they therefore, and the other members of npt,180 members of npt, they are already complying with safeguard agreements foreseen in iaea regulations... let's move on, we don't have much time, to syria. after the trump announcement we saw tensions rise very rapidly inside syria, notably between israel and iran. the iranian forces, and there are believed to be dirty dozen or so personnel directly answerable to tehran inside syria, they fired some rockets towards the occupied golan heights. in return, the israeli air force launch strikes against a whole series of iranian military targets.
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how worried is the tehran government right now about spiralling direct military confrontation with israel? i believe the issue is not a possibility of direct confronted war between israel and iran. what prime minister netanyahu is doing is going to provoke iran to retaliate. the invasion of syria. you know, he has invaded syria during the last two, three years of 100 times, all illegal, or aggression, all against united nations charter. however, he is going to provoke iranian is to retaliate in order to drag the us to attack iran. prime minister netanyahu's attack iran. prime minister neta nyahu's objective is attack iran. prime minister netanyahu's objective is clear. first, to kill the nuclear deal and second, to bring the us to attack
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iran. he's been working on this for 20 years and during president 0bama, he was even pushing president 0bama to attack iran. with respect, things have moved on. it's notjust about the israelis. we have a team in washington, donald trump herself but his new secretary of state, mike pompeo, his national security adviser, john boulton, these men are on the record as advocating regime change in tehran. it seems all government in iran has a choice. it can continue its confrontational policies, building this arc of influence stretching from iran itself all the way to the mediterranean in lebanon by using hezbollah, by using the houthi rebels in yemen, its relationship with assad in syria but if iran does that, it runs the risk of a massive
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regional conflagration which iran very probably wouldn't come well out of. i agree with you, steve, it's a risky situation president trump and his team want regime change, president netanyahu and his team wa nt president netanyahu and his team want regime change. dragging the us and international community to a war in the region. i agree with you. the syria thing, syria has a government which is internationally recognised asa which is internationally recognised as a legal government. there is no other legal government in syria. they have an ambassador in the united nations. the legal government of syria has invited russia and iran to go to syria to fight terrorism. we have 110,000 terrorists organised by us allies in the region in syria to fight the syrian government, to fight syrian army, to fight syrian
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security establishment to bring regime change. we don't have any other country the same situation where you have 100,000 foreign terrorists fighting the government to security establishment, the military, in syria to bring regime change in syria. this is illegal. if iran is there, it's based on syrian government requests. if russia is there, the same. if the united states is in iraqi, it's because the iraqi government, which is a legal government, has asked the united states, come to iraq, bring your forces to fight terrorists. this is international. we have governments which... we have governments, which are legal, in syria and iraq. they are legal, in syria and iraq. they are entitled to bring other governments, other countries to fight terrorism in their countries. we are out of time but frankly, i
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need a single word answer to this. you are suggesting to me there is no likelihood whatsoever of the iranian government changing course right now, is that what i'm hearing from you? no, now, is that what i'm hearing from you? no i' now, is that what i'm hearing from you? no, i'm not saying that, steve. i say if the us, the us, euro would influence —— implement the first agreement between you run the world powers which is the nuclear deal, then the iranian supreme leader said publicly if the deal is implemented publicly if the deal is implemented publicly and precisely, we would be open to start a dialogue negotiation on other issues but if they are going to kill the deal, then there would be zero trust for a run —— iran to trust the us or europe on regional issues because even if we ee, regional issues because even if we agree, even if the united nations resolution is fair, the us or europeans would fail to deliver
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their commitments. all right, seyed hossein mousavian, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you, c. —— steve. hello again, good morning. nearly all of us still look like being dry through the rest of this week and into the weekend as well. the temperatures are going to change a bit and we've got some chilly nights on the way, but here in hampshire, we had the highest temperature on tuesday, 23.7 celsius, but the next few days will be cooler by day as well as by night, but a lot of dry weather and some sunshine around as well. now, the cooler air comes around this area of high pressure following that weather front there. ahead of that weather front, we've got some stronger winds, making it feel chillier across many parts of england and wales, together with all this
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cloud, so cloudier skies. 0n the weather front itself, there's not much rain around, as you can see, at all. as you head further north, increasing amounts of sunshine, perhaps in north wales, certainly across northern england and some good sunny spells for scotland and northern ireland, where temperatures will be lower across the board than they were on tuesday, and quite a significant drop for eastern scotland. quite a chilly wind blowing into the evening and overnight across eastern and south—eastern parts of england. the cloud tends to break up and remember, we've pushed in some cooler air, so with the clearer skies, temperatures will fall away. it'll be a chillier night in the south. and in scotland and northern ireland, we could be starting at 12 degrees on thursday morning but plenty of sunshine around. probably infilling a bit of cloud for scotland and northern ireland on thursday but a dry day, the winds not as strong across the south. it will feel just a little bit warmer. maybe those temperatures not showing too much sign of creeping up just yet, but i think it'll be a bit warmer on friday. high pressure still in charge of our weather, these weather fronts not really making much progress into the uk, it's the western isles
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that'll see more cloud, maybe a spot of rain on friday, otherwise a dry day with some sunshine, maybe seeing a little bit more cloud developing across east anglia and the south—east on friday but tending to become a bit warmer, as i say, so18, 19 degrees through the central belt of scotland, similar temperatures across parts of southern england as well. now, into the weekend, i've put the jet stream on here because the position of the jet stream means we're steering areas of low pressure to the north—west of the uk, keeping that high pressure firmly in charge. now, there are some showers nearby over the near continent. we're not expecting them to arrive in windsor or in the south—east of england. should be fine for the royal wedding. there'll be fair bit of cloud, mind you, but it'll be a bit warmer, temperatures 20, maybe even 21 degrees. a decent day pretty much across the board on saturday. even into sunday and monday, very little rain heading our way. it's mostly high pressure, quite warm in the sunshine. the winds, if anything, coming in from the near continent. this is the briefing.
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i'm sally bundock. our top story: north korea warns the us against military exercises with the south and hints it might reconsider next month's summit. malaysia's veteran opposition leader, anwar ibrahim, walks from jail — freed by the man who once imprisoned him. a warning from ukraine — the american envoy says russia is still supporting separatists, and there may have to be more sanctions. trading with tehran: the eu and iran step up their efforts to protect their business links from us sanctions. also in business briefing a special report from pennsylvania on how chinese tech is keeping americans online.
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