received a secret payment to fix talks between the ukrainian and us presidents. but ukraine's president poroshenko's office has called the claims a flagrant lie, adding that they are part of a campaign to discredit relations between the two countries. with doubt still surrounding president trump's summit with kimjong un, china tells the us that "now is the time" to make a peace deal with north korea. and this story is trending on bbc.com... a new york couple have won their bid to have their 30—year—old son evicted from their home. michael rotondo has been living with his parents for eight years after he lost his job but they say he had not contributed to household expenses or with doing the chores. that is a warning there. stay with us on that is a warning there. stay with us on bbc news. now on bbc news it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, with me, zeinab

badawi. my guest is a pioneer in so many ways. she has been described as the arab world's leading feminist, she is a leading doctor, writer, activist and outspoken political critic. she is dr nawal el saadawi, banned from speaking in the egyptian media and imprisoned under the government of president sadat after her outspoken views. howell much freedom of expression is there under president sisi and what is it like being a woman in egypt today? dr nawal el saadawi, we welcome you

to hardtalk. now president al—sisi was re—elected in april of this year. briefly, how much democracy is there in egypt today? well... there is not less or more than democracy in britain or in the united states. i look at the world as a whole. so, egypt is not specifically lacking in democracy. i've been travelling all over the world. i have not seen a democratic country. do you have democracy here in britain? let's stick with egypt? no, i cannot stay with egypt because i link it to the world and i need to make a comparison. all right, let's take a specific point. you were imprisoned in 1980 specific point. you were imprisoned ini980 and specific point. you were imprisoned in 1980 and president anwar sadat

because of your outspoken views. you said at the time that you believe what he said, there is democracy, you have a multiparty system and you can criticise so i started to criticise his policy and landed in jail. exactly! today, do you have the freedom to say what you want in egypt? much better than under president sadat or president mubarak. under them, i president sadat or president mubarak. underthem, iwas in prison. now, ican mubarak. underthem, iwas in prison. now, i can speak my views in egypt now. to the media. also, i write. i write for the main newspaper in egypt, regularly. so, in that case, it sounds as though you were happy when president al—sisi room moved mohamed morsi from power, and criticised many inside egypt and internationally? ——

removed. yes, we were happy, there we re removed. yes, we were happy, there were millions. it was not sisi who removed the muslim brotherhood, but the egyptian people. 30 million people in the streets against the muslim brotherhood. he was the minister of defence and head of the armed forces. no, iwant minister of defence and head of the armed forces. no, i want to correct that. the people of egypt removed the muslim brothers. we were 30 millions in streets, saying that we would not have an islamic government. we would not have an islamic state, and even president sisi at the beginning was reluctant. we were pushing him and the army to ta ke we were pushing him and the army to take over. so, we have to be clear, because what is happening in egypt is not really portrayed by the outside. i have to put it to you that in the elections, after the toppling of new president mubarak,

and the muslim brotherhood who refashion themselves as the freedom and justice party, and also the other islamist party, they brought the support of the muslim —based parties to more than 70%? this is an illusion, we did not have democratic elections in egypt. because there is no democratic elections in any country. it is money and power. do you think that he was elected democratically? i was an excel for 20 years. i witnessed bill clinton campaign, and barack obama. is that a democracy? it is money and power. so that is what brought them to power, that is what you say? yes, i

saw hillary clinton in cairo in terrorist square. they supported the muslim brothers. you know -- in the square. that is a liar, a big lie. but eventually, sisi became president in 2014, in elections that gave him 97% of the vote. is president sisi democratically elected? he was voted in april this year. the election has nothing to do with democracy. we do not live in a democratic world, no. dictatorship everywhere. i have to be clear. you cannot have democracy, real democracy, in a capitalist, racist,

religious system. how can you have democracy? let me ask you this, the point i want to develop with you is the fact that many people inside of egypt and outside of the country felt that whatever circumstances we re felt that whatever circumstances were brought under president sisi bringing him to power, it was prefera ble bringing him to power, it was preferable to having the muslim brotherhood essentially running egypt, is that your view? to have the muslim brotherhood ? egypt, is that your view? to have the muslim brotherhood? no, i'm saying that many people prefer abdel fa tta h saying that many people prefer abdel fattah al—sisi, the circumstances, compared to the muslim brotherhood. the majority of egyptians, including myself, we know the muslim brothers history, and we know that they will go with religion and we are against a religious state. so we know, and many people in egypt do not accept a religious state. that is why they

support sisi. so everything is relative. relative to sisi. rule is much better compared to the muslim brothers, because they do not choose religion. to play with religion is like playing with fire. fire! the muslim brothers, they want to tell us muslim brothers, they want to tell us that allah said so and we cannot criticise him, but at least we can criticise him, but at least we can criticise the army or sisi, they are humans, but how can we criticise allah? you have been an outspoken person or your life, as we can see. we have written —— you have written things about issues like the male genital mutilation, prostitution, sexual relationships, marriage and divorce —— female genital mutilation. do you think you would

serve your cause better if you were less outspoken? i should be more outspoken, more aggressive. the world is becoming more aggressive. and we need people to speak louder! speak loud against injustice and be fierce. there is no fairness. i am angry. what is this bias? why, why? people are killed, as i told you, in palestine. i know the media does not mention that. butjust looking at... this is part of my life, it's part of my life! if we are going to speak politics, and not literature, we need to look to the whole world, the whole world. what is happening in the whole world? we live in a capitalist and patriarchal system.

harsh, patriarchal and religious system. you were born in 1931, just outside of cairo, one of eight children and you say in your writings that you always thought, why should i be treated differently from my brothers? you came from a relatively progressive family, and obviously you were highly educated. but looking at one specific practice in egypt, female genital mutilation, fgm, you underwent that at six years old. is there a reason why you felt you had a personal mission to try and eradicate harmful practices like this? no, i forgot it. and eradicate harmful practices like this? no, iforgot it. iforgot the event when i was a child. because there is childhood and easier. then i was reminded when i worked as a medical doctor —— and easier. i saw children cut, mainly female. i'm

against male genital mutilation. circumcision? yes, and female genital mutilation. after working as a physician and seeing children in front of me being cut, i started to remember what happened to me. it's not personal. they're just thinking about the kinds of causes that you have taken, and the way that you approach issues like that. my point was, do you think he would serve the cause a bit better if you worked more quietly behind the scenes? even today in egypt, more than 50%, perhaps 70%, of girls are still subjected to fgm. yes, but that is why we should be very, very brave, and open and also clear. why should we not be clear? to hide, and why be

careful? i have to be outspoken. as a practice, it has been outlawed in egypt since 1996. in 2016 the law was tough and, in egypt, to bring in harsher penalties for practitioners. the law has not stopped it. why does it persist? it is very deep—rooted habit, related to the patriarchy and oppression of women in all religions. women are circumcised in all religions, physically, mentally, spiritually, psychologically. we had to put fgm, and mgm, in context. spiritually, psychologically. we had to put fgm, and mgm, in contextm it about women's sexuality? yes. that women should be monogamous, and

men polygamist, you see? how can women be monogamous? but women are often perpetuate fgm, it isn'tjust something that the males do. the women wanted, sometimes. slaves are a lwa ys women wanted, sometimes. slaves are always against slaves. it is the slave mentality. when you are oppressed, you press your children. especially your daughters. this is psychology. but the point is we have to understand why fgm, and male genital mutilation, is still today, it is still now. nobody speaks about why males are circumcised, nobody asks. but it is very much related to female circumcision and it is related to monogamy for women and polygyny for men. in order for women to be monogamous, they must be circumcised. to be satisfied with

one man, you know? it is related to monogamy. there are other issues, you bring up monogamy, and looking at the issue of marriage, i want to raise a particular case with you thatis raise a particular case with you that is making a lot of headlines at the moment, the case of nora hussain, a 19—year—old woman in sudan, neighbouring egypt. you were born in sudan. i was, you are absolutely right. she has been condemned to death. when her husband to death. she was forced into the marriage when she was in her early to mid teens, and she did not consent to have sexual intercourse with him and was held down by three of his male relatives. you know the story? yes. so wide as the koran, first of all, it does not allow forced marriage, so why... it has nothing to do with the koran. it has nothing to do with the koran. it has

nothing to do with the koran. it has nothing to do with religion. many people think it is the koran that oppresses women or is long, women are oppressed in christianity, hinduism. in many religions. i was about to marry when i was ten years, but i struggled hard. about to marry when i was ten years, but i struggled hardli about to marry when i was ten years, but i struggled hard. i struggled. your parents wanted you to marry at ten yea rs your parents wanted you to marry at ten years old? how did you, at ten, managed to say no? you have to read my autobiography! yes, of course... it was a long battle. but it is universal. it is like female genital mutilation, like monogamy, polygamy, like everything related to women. it is universal. because girls should marry young, and the man is older to

dominate her, you know, domination. the husband should dominate. so the girl marries young. she is ignorant, she can be manipulated. nora hussain resisted and she said that she was tricked into marrying him. and she killed him. she killed him when he tried to force himself on her. but we now look at her, what will happen to her? amnesty international say that the sudanese courts say that she is guilty of premeditated murder even though she was defending herself from being raped by a man she was forced to marry when she was a young teenager. she is innocent. this girl is innocent in front of all laws. she is innocent because she was defending herself. her husband raped her. rape is like killing. when a girl is raped, when she is young, a young teenager, this is like killing her. the world

should recognise that she is being killed by the husband and she was in self defence. she was defending herself. so she is innocent. child marriage is universal. the oppression of women is universal, and we had to put it in the picture to understand. looking at the status of women in egypt today, we've heard a lot about women being sexually molested in public areas and so on. and president sisi has designated, in 2017, designated it the year of the women, introducing laws that are favourable to women and introducing more women in the cabinet, 18%, that kind of thing. is there progress for women status and rights in egypt? very little. women cannot be... i do

not believe that it can come from any government. i'll believe that women gain their rights by their own efforts. it is not from any rule but we women should organise ourselves, and be aware of our problems. and fight. i and be aware of our problems. and fight. i do not believe in individual rule. that an individual rule will bring rights to women or men or anybody. so, the people themselves should fight for the rights. you, yourself, you say that people themselves should fight for their rights. women should fight for them. do you see what is going on in a lot of countries in the world, western countries in particular. america, europe, about the me too campaign saying that this kind of sexual harassment has gone on for too long. does it resonate with you

in egypt? yes, unfortunately, women in america, they discovered that. when i spoke to the international women conferences and they say that the problem for women is global, global and local, we cannot separate between local and global. they laughed. but now, american women are fighting against rape and sexual molesting, and we heard about the very famous men who raped women. you see? so i'm happy that it became known universally. do you think it isa known universally. do you think it is a universal issue, though? you don't think that people had to apply cultural sensitivities and norms so the debate is different in egypt compared to the united states? you got the point. it is universal. you think it is universal? it is, and we should not be talking about cultural

relativism. i'm not very much with the idea of cultural relativism. or multiculturalism. this is more than language. i do not agree, and very critical of this language, so i think what i think. the local is not separate from the global. i think that this problem, that feminism is a western invention. that me? i am copying western women, you know? yeah. they do not believe that feminism is in every country. that is why i call myself a historical socialist feminist. that's the point, for example back in 2001 you said that the veil was an islamic, and you said that there are vestiges of pagan practices during the annual hajj muslim pilgrimage, that

backfired on you. you were sacked from yourjob at the ministry of health and as editor of the health journal. that's the point i'm making. should you proceed with more recognition of cultural sensibilities? it is not cultural. for me, i was not speaking specifically about islam or hajj or women oppression in islam, i was linking with fiction in my writing. i'm a medical doctor. in order to understand women's problems or any problems, we should be looking historically and we should link the problem in history. we should follow it, up until now. you havejust written your memoirs at the age of 86, nearly 87. called a daughter of

isis, walking through fire. looking back on your career, what do you think about your life's working trying to promote women's rights ki rsty trying to promote women's rights kirsty mackay you satisfied with what has gone on? welcome a yes! if you ask me this question a few years ago, i would say no but now, yes. you cannot imagine, i have 70 books. they are almost in every home in egypt, and in sudan. in all the countries. they are there, and they are read by young people. 15 years, 14 years. so i am very satisfied. and whenever i go to sudan or anywhere, young people will come to me and say nawal you changed my life with your work! they were smuggled

to saudi arabia, did you know my books were in saudi arabia when they we re books were in saudi arabia when they were banned in egypt? you cannot ban books, people find them. so your question? yes, iam books, people find them. so your question? yes, i am satisfied. books, people find them. so your question? yes, iam satisfied. i feel i am protected by young people in egypt and everywhere. i have filled my promise to myself, but also, i should fight more and more until i die! but also, i should fight more and more untili die! but as also, i should fight more and more until i die! but as we said, the status of women in egypt and the arab world, there is still so much that needs to be achieved and accomplished? of course, of course. but there is also much progress. you cannot see young women now in universities everywhere, they talked loud. egyptian women are very outspoken. they were not walking through fire, as you were? much less fire, much less fire! of course,

they are paying less of a prized than me. you were imprisoned for three months, only when president sadat was assassinated you were released? yes, i am satisfied and i am optimistic. i am full of hope because hope is power. so, i think tomorrow will be better. i think egypt now is much better than under president sadat or mubarak. so, we go on. dr nawal el saadawi, thank you very much forjoining us on hard talks stop thank you. hello. plenty more spring sunshine

in the forecast over the next few days. feeling warm in the sunshine as well. it isn't quite that simple because in southern areas, in particular, there is a risk of thundery showers. we see those on thursday. courtesy of this weather front that has been snaking its way from the near continent. it doesn't look like much but it introduces an extra kick of energy and the most of the atmosphere needs to generate these showers and storms. hit and miss but they drift westwards as we go through the day. in eastern scotla nd go through the day. in eastern scotland and north—east england, low cloud and fog that it burns towards the coast, brightening as the day goes on. here is how it looks on our high—resolution weather model, in parts of england we see these showers and thunderstorms drifting westwards. it should brighten by the afternoon, in the south—east and in much of the midlands. northern

england, northern ireland and scotla nd england, northern ireland and scotland with long spells of sunshine. some mist and low cloud on the north sea coastline as we go through the day. consequently, temperatures in aberdeen and newcastle down to about 15 degrees. elsewhere, real warmth, the best of the sunshine with highs of 22 or 23. on thursday night, we have thunderstorms drifting up from the near continent. moving up from the north at this stage, scotland holding the coastal and fog, rolling further inland as the date moves on. temperatures generally at eight to 14 degrees. during the day on friday, we have further pulses of wet weather, thunderstorms drifting m, wet weather, thunderstorms drifting in, at northern england at that stage, and in the south it will be cloudy for much of the time. muggy,

19 degrees and in cardiff, 20 in the sunshine in belfast. temperatures set to climb as we move through the weekend. we tap into this warm air across the near continent. it moves up across the near continent. it moves up in ourdirection. across the near continent. it moves up in our direction. but what we bring up from the south are further areas of thundery rain, and particularly towards the south—west of the uk, with high—pressure as an influence. some dry weather and sunshine for the south. some real warmth as well. but there is a risk of some thunderstorms. i'm rico hizon in singapore, the headlines the bbc has been told that donald trump's personal lawyer got a secret payment to arrange talks between the ukrainian president and the president. mr cohen denies receiving the payment and president poroshenko's office calls the claim a flagrant lie. with doubt still surrounding president trump's summit with kimjong—un, china tells the us

that "now is the time" to make a peace deal with north korea. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: yulia skripal, who along with her father, was poisoned by a nerve agent in england, has made her first televised statement since the attack. translation: we are so lucky to have both survived this