michael cohen was secretly paid at least $a00,000 to secure a white house meeting lastjune for the ukrainian leader. mr cohen, who denies receiving any such payment, was not registered as a representative of ukraine. the daughter of a former russian spy has made herfirst public appearance since she and her father were poisoned with a nerve agent in the english city of salisbury in march. in a statement to the reuters news agency, yulia skripal said she was lucky to have survived. russia denies any involvement. the italian president, sergio mattarella, has asked a little known law professor, giuseppe conte, to form a government — ending a stalemate since inconclusive elections in march. mr conte, who is backed by the five star movement and the league, said italy's place was in the european union. now on bbc news, zeinab badawi talks to the former news corp executive les hinton on hardtalk. welcome to hard tour, with me,

zeinab badawi. few people have got as close to one of the most powerful press barons of our times, rupert murdoch. more than 50 years may guess, les hinton, was murder‘s right—hand man. he was a top executive with news corp during some of its most tumultuous times. well, he has just lifted the lid on of its most tumultuous times. well, he hasjust lifted the lid on his time at the corporation in a new memoir. how much personal responsibility does he bearfor some of the excesses of news international like the phone hacking scandal in the uk, and did he have a career he can be proud of? les hinton. welcome to hardtalk.

thank you very much. it is good to be here. what was it like working alongside rupert murdoch for more than 50 years? it was hard work. it was staring, it was exciting, it was inferior eating, and occasionally it was agony. but they were great years —— infuriating. i began as a 15—year—old and a running a large company in new york. amy cure cries from fairly humble beginnings. you say in your memoirs, maybe you score was a personality cult. maybe, surely it was orica wasn't. the pens on how you define a personality cult. but he certainly... it did not

occui’ cult. but he certainly... it did not occur to me to learn of the company. which may be, in and of itself, prove that it was. surely it must have occurred to you that this man with so much power, that it was a personality cult. you say that executives wanted to get close to him and very needy and wanting to a lwa ys him and very needy and wanting to always brush shoulders. that is true. when he was in the office people changed. when i was running the company in london, years ago, and within hours to my executives, all very seasoned, very experienced people, rupert is coming to town. you would see this a shiver through the room. it was a mixture of apprehension and excitement. they really loved to have him around. but it could be, for some of them, terrifying. terrifying, but he made a lot of enemies. you say in your book that he basically bought off many of them. you'd be quite generous with their severance pay and he would say to you to be more

generous. he basically used his money to buy silence. that is, you are relating two things that don't really connect. my point his generosity, he about could be a tough employer, and he did dismiss people, but often i would, by deciding someone should leave or upon he and dave green they should leave, i would take the action and i we re leave, i would take the action and i were described to him what severance i was proposing. in those situations, and these would be editors or executives that had quite worked out, he was all is generous with them. they had nothing to be silent about. it was being generous with them. you did also say that you and others fa ntasised with them. you did also say that you and others fantasised about being able to have enough money so you could go and say goodbye. by won't say it, it was rather obscene the way you put it. anyway, i get lost, or less polite words, rupert. the fa ct or less polite words, rupert. the fact is, there was a lot of pressure working for him. i suppose there was not neglected blitz spirit. so we would fantasise that if we had

enough money and he was being especially difficult that we would be able to knock on the door and he would say yes, and i would say rupert, and i would use the curse that ended with off, and we would all have a good laugh. there is a question of humour and some apprehension working for him. but they were sad, for instance, a plastic gi helmet in my office with a razor blade, a plastic razor blade stuck to it. thejoke a razor blade, a plastic razor blade stuck to it. the joke was when he called me up and i knew his assistant at the time had a great way... she was able to helmet on, love. there for a new it would be a bad conversation. it wasn't a question of living in mortalfear, it was dealing with the tension. lot has been said about the fact he has very strong political views. to what extent do you think is newspaper empire reflected his own personal views? would he picked up the phone to editors and say i think you should do this? he expressed his

views a lot. but he was careful about how we did it. first of all, obviously, there is this talk that he dictated to his editors what they would think and say. that is not actually true with a weight was expressed. obviously he would play the art in choosing the editors. he chose like—minded editors. they did not mean that on occasions, many occasions, editors would do things they did in pleasing. really? want to give a quote which has been disputed by rupert murdoch, attributed to anthony hinchens, he asked rupert murdoch in 2016 why he was so opposed to the european union, because of course ebacc brexit, rupert apparently replied, "that is easy, when i go to ten downing street, with the british prime minister lives, they do what they say, when i go to brussels they ta ke they say, when i go to brussels they take no notice. " they say, when i go to brussels they take no notice." i never heard him say that or anything like it. he cared a great deal about, he is very interested in politics and in media and he very in news. you never heard him say that, but does it sound

right? does it ring true?|j him say that, but does it sound right? does it ring true? i was on many occasions with him at downing street or dinners with politicians and he would express forceful point of view, but it is a bit of a myth, a complete fiction to imagine that he somehow was able, with some mysterious power, to dictate to these politicians what they should do, because he clearly didn't. they went in and out and they all courted him. tony blair, who he famously backed. if he wasn't that influential all—powerful. .. backed. if he wasn't that influential all-powerful. .. that is the great question. politicians long since have attributed enormous power to newspapers to influence... and rightly so. that is debatable. is it? that is debatable, you say, but the labour leader neil kinnock when he lost the election tojohn major

in1992, he lost the election tojohn major in 1992, this is what he said, he said, "never in the past nine elections has the anti—tory, antilabour press come out so strongly in favour of the conservatives. never has their attack on the labour party been so comprehensive. this was how the election was won." neil kinnock‘s mind, no doubt he lost the election because of the antilabour press. he is saying if the press were more supportive of him he would have won. i think, as with most politicians, it is very rare, and there are exa m ples most it is very rare, and there are examples most recent with politicians unable to find excuses other than their own shortcomings. just as in 1987, when we supported tony blair in that election, there was great talk about how we had actually helped tony blair win. the truth is that he was far beyond the need of any type of assistance from anybody and had no need to be... but the newspaper, the sun newspaper, which is the most widely read newspaper in the united kingdom, it

said after the defeat of labour, it was the son was won it. sorry, terrible grammar. it was good son grammar. they were saying we have all this influence and power.m grammar. they were saying we have all this influence and power. it was silly. no one you. it was a close election. a very close election. you could argue on the margin it made some difference. neil kinnock stood for election and neil kinnock lost. the point i am making is that obviously there is this overweening power of this press baron, rupert murdoch, and he is not elected. people are uncomfortable with that. if you look at his plans to take full control of the pan—european broadcaster debbie spy, the cma says the sky app acquisition would give them too much control over all media platforms and too much influence over public opinion. yes. you agree

without? i agree with what they have said. the european commission, who are more stricter matters of monopoly and antitrust, they cleared it back in 2011. what do you think? it isa it back in 2011. what do you think? it is a fair comment, a justified concern. we need to justify to be concerned. to all intents and purposes, for 20 years, sky news, which is the principal news outlet he has in this country, for five yea rs he has in this country, for five years his company has effectively beenin years his company has effectively been in control, they owned 30% of the shares. there has never been any murmur, a murmur about the fact... you think it should go ahead. you think it should, obviously. obviously with these deals there are are other issues to do a... but it is this idea of concentrating too much influence on public opinion. that is a fair point. so it is a fair point. you have made a fair point except, with respect, you are fighting an old battle. the dissemination of news now, the

atomisation of musa pingers comedy a cts atomisation of musa pingers comedy acts of a wide variety of points of view online, through facebook, there isa view online, through facebook, there is a massive variety. the newspapers are no longer as influential as they were, obviously. sales going down. what is replacing this concern, which is a bit dated, is the power and the anarchy of the internet, where things can be said to millions of people in this country from outside from areas where there is no libel control, no slight, no ethical control. that is the modern concern. doesn't preclude you from being concerned about what news corp is doing? i think there are politicians in this country who have developed this passion against rupert. they are fighting an old battle. that is not the argument any more, in my view. let us see how you rose to become one of rupert murdoch's most trusted lieutenants. you had an itinerant early life. you are born in bootle in the north of england.

your father was a sergeant in the army and he moved around all over the world, libya, egypt, singapore, germany, and so on. newspapers, of course, in those days, were the most important source of news, there was the radio as well. did you even, at that very early age, realise how much influence and power they could hold? yes. i write about this in my book. it is called the bootle boy: an untidy life in news. book. it is called the bootle boy: an untidy life in newslj book. it is called the bootle boy: an untidy life in news. i could have said extremely untidy there. but i thought untidy would do. it is true. i became very interested in news when i was 11 or 12 and i read a couple of great crusading articles, one in the daily mirror including a woman called ruth ellis who was hanged for having... a british woman. she was hanged for having murdered her boyfriend. there was a massive feeling against capital punishment in this country when it happened. i remember reading the passion of that and feeling really

very moved by it. i think that is the first time i thought how powerful newspapers could be. and how much i wanted to work for them. and i was 11 or the assault. those we re and i was 11 or the assault. those were the days when there were more than two or three newspapers in virtually every single household in the country and only two television stations. -- 11 or 12 the country and only two television stations. -- 11 or12 years the country and only two television stations. -- 11 or 12 years old. when you were 15 your family moved to australia. that is when you got your first job to australia. that is when you got yourfirstjob ina to australia. that is when you got yourfirstjob in a newspaper, the news in adelaide. as a copyboy. say in your memoir that newspapers are a high functioning dictatorship. yes. what do you mean by that? and in that unlike any other institutional operation that i know of, because of the deadlines, i suppose a battle commander would compare, suddenly quick decisions need to be made, there can only be so much room for democratic process will stop it is

the same in television. when it is a late—night show and you decide what to airor not late—night show and you decide what to air or not to echo of the estimate decision. because of that need for speed them the authority and the obedience in a newspaper gravitates to the man at the top. that is when you met rupert murdoch, as you say, when you were on the news. in the mid— 70s you got a job in murder‘s new operation in new york. you say we newcomers were devoted to the bios, we moved from business to business, taking the newspapers, buying magazines, living into television, and all the world presented that by professing to give a dam about what the rest of the world thought. it was a populist approach, not pulitzer prize are seeking journalism, wasn't it?|j approach, not pulitzer prize are seeking journalism, wasn't it? i am very happy with the description. i was there along with others. the american media, the american press would then, even more than they are now, very self—importa nt. would then, even more than they are now, very self—important. we came in with a sydney and fleet street style popular newspapers and approach to

popular newspapers and approach to popular newspapers and approach to popular newspapers will stop they absolutely loathed it. and while there were many matters on which they had good cause to loathe it, there were some are quite wonderful about upsetting them so much. became at a cost, that kind of approach, because in 1995 you returned to london to write for news international, the uk division arm of news corp and that really brought about a real low in your career, i am talking about the phone hacking scandal in the uk and the terrible case of the young schoolgirl, who was murdered in 2002, her phone had been hacked by a reporterfrom news of the world and messages were being deleted and so it gave hope to her family that she was somehow still alive, when of course she had been murdered. it later emerged that hundreds of people had had their phones hacked and there were

criminal prosecutions, surely that was the lowest point of your career? it was a very bad period. it was a terrible travesty to have happened, but there was neville —— never any evidence that her voice mails was elected. the trick is her e—mail was hacked and many others were hacked. for merely, be awful ritualjewish intrusion of outback created a great firestorm that resulted in the scandal and there is no excuse to it. had if you are somebody at the top of the organisation, surely the buck cattistock with you? —— how. —— buck cattistock with you? —— how. —— buck had to stop. it was said that this culture permeated from the top of the organisation and speaks volumes about the lack of corporate

governance at les —— news corp and news international. i don't agree with that. the fact was, in the end, the trouble with talking about this, i have to be very careful in not diminishing the crimes, but the number of people involved in it, however widespread, in relation to the number of journalists and however widespread, in relation to the number ofjournalists and those who had worked at news corp in london, we have the sunday times, the literary supplement, there were loads. in the end, eight people were found guilty to phone hacking and they employed 3000. that is eight, there was a lot of public outrage and rupert murdoch had a pie thrown in his face. that is fair enough, the point is what i trying to say is the point is what i trying to say is the politicians who compiled the report, i can discuss this if you

want, but you wanted to blight the entire organisation. how did you feel at the top of it? sick, and i resigned. i resigned from the company. as other executives also tendered their resignations? some dead and others didn't. the fact is, i knew nothing about it, hindsight isa i knew nothing about it, hindsight is a great place to view everything perfectly. i did everything that i thought i should do at the time that this happened. it happened on my watch and i left. it was a huge corporate failing of corporate governance, you accept that.|j governance, you accept that.” accept that it should not have happened but i don't accept that there were some corrupt acceptance or acknowledgement that this sort of thing happened. it isn't true. or acknowledgement that this sort of thing happened. it isn't truem or acknowledgement that this sort of thing happened. it isn't true. it is and ignominious end, was it such a

blight on your career that you could say i am proud of my career but this episode overshadows everything else? i was very proud of my career and the work that i did and i think it is fairto the work that i did and i think it is fair to degree —— agree it was not the way to end it. i was 67 yea rs old not the way to end it. i was 67 years old and i along with many other people, were caught in this storm and i would much rather it didn't happen. it did and i don't feel ashamed of my career, i feel ashamed of that episode. you said you feel like a castaway in a hurricane, but you are briefed by people inside news corp, did that come from the top? if i knew where it came from than my book would have said so. but i don't really believe that it was rupert... he could have been, you don't know.” that it was rupert... he could have been, you don't know. i don't believe it because i know how he works. he asked me not to resign when i'll offered to add that i

accepted it. i don't think it was rupert murdoch, but i don't know who it was. you imply that that kind of journalism, tabloid approach, the kind of journalism that journalism, tabloid approach, the kind ofjournalism that draws criticisms, is that a thing of the past four news corp? is not really, is it? when you say think of the past, you are implying perhaps in the minds of some people watching this that it was a permeating culture and it wasn't. it wasn't like that. there was a knot of people who did a lot of misdeeds by hacking people's voice mails. you area hacking people's voice mails. you are a former chairman and chief executive of fox tv stations, fox news channel was launched in 1996, not by you because apparently you didn't have the right vision for it. a lot of criticism now about fox news because people say it parades opinion and comment last grading as

fat —— must grading as fact and caters to people ‘s prejudices. that is still going on. no, see, you are quoting what commercial rivals of ox news say and imply it as fact. —— fox news. i spent most of my time in new york's and watched the news bulletins, fox is a devoted the trump operation. i personally don't agree with that. i think that the president of the united states is some kind of a freak. i am sure that he will would not accept that description of him as a greek.” he will would not accept that description of him as a greek. i am happy to argue with him. —— freak. at the same time, if you watch cnn, they are as fiercely anti—trump as fox is pro—trump. you can look at it and decide who you believe more. i find it difficult, compared with

here in london where you can sit down and listen to news and get a proper, coherent balance of information. because of trump, you don't get that. you are saying, i am parroting what critics of fox news say, but i wanted to let you know what colonel ralph peters, who served as a military analyst for sometime full fox news and he left. —— for. he said heath felt can —— compelled to explain his departure in arch. he says today i feel fox news is fostering corrosive and unjustified paranoia among viewers. that is somebody who contributes to fox news. who contributed. and left. he thinks that it has degenerated from providing a legitimate and much—needed outlet for conservative voices to morphing into a mere propaganda machine for a destructive and ethically ruinous

administration. it is a very subjective statement. very colourful and very subjective. he wasjust a critic, it isn't just and very subjective. he wasjust a critic, it isn'tjust the left of centre critics of fox news who are saying that. sure. i can spend all night defending rupert murdoch but it isn't really what i want to do because in talking about rupert, i can decide many failings and shortcomings. you are the chairman chief executives of the tv stations. that was long ago. for that view, you can go online, on social media and hear many counter views. i think and hear many counter views. i think a lot of what he says has some value but i don't, it is not an objective, leaving fox news and loving cnn is not an object standpoint because they do the same except the opposite. people are increasingly getting venues from newspapers but

from other sources, do you accept that you have been part of a dying industry and that today, we are talking about rupert murdoch but actually it is not him who matters as much now, it is mark zuckerberg and facebook. i think there is a dramatic atomisation of news and information taking place and you can sit now here with a laptop and every country in the world sees this, you can get to their newspapers and check what people think, what australians think about japan and what china things about north korea, you can do all of those things whereas once upon a time you get the evening bulletin before breakfast tv, before cable channels, now you can basically sit and you have and the palm —— in the palm of your hand you have infinity. it may be destroying business models of these newspapers but it is, from the point of people like us as consumers, fantastic. les hinton, thank you very much for coming on hardtalk.

thank you. hello. there is plenty more spring sunshine in the forecast for the next few days. it will feel warm in the sunshine as well. but it's not that simple, because in southern areas, particularly, there is a risk of thundery showers. we will see some of those during the day on thursday, courtesy of this weather front that's been sneaking its way in from the near continent. it doesn't look like much, but it introduces that extra kick of energy and moisture that the atmosphere needs to generate some of the showers and storms. they will be quite hit and miss, but they will drift westwards during the day. for eastern scotland in north—east england, mist and fog to start off, but this will burn its way back to the coast, things brightening up as the day goes on. here is how it looks on a high—resolution weather model. a bit more detail across wales, parts of england, as well. showers and thunderstorms drifting westwards. it should dry up for much through the day. long spells of sunshine in northern england and scotland, but still mist and murk and low cloud lapping onto the north sea coastlines as we go through the day. so as a consequence,

temperatures in aberdeen and newcastle will be pegged back to about 1a or 15 degrees. elsewhere, real warmth to be had, particularly in the best of the sunshine, with highs of 22 or 23. tuesday night, we are expecting further showers, perhaps thunderstorms, drifting from the near continent, moving a little bit further north at this stage. not eating them, is in scotland, holding onto some of the mist and fog rolling a little bit further inland as the night wears on. we start friday morning on a muggy note. temperatures generally about 8—11; degrees. during the day on friday, further pulses of wet weather, thunderstorms drifting, perhaps getting into northern england at this stage. to the north of that, long spells of sunshine. further south, i suspect it will be quite cloudy for much of the time. quite muggy as well. 19 degrees in plymouth and cardiff. 20 in the sunshine in belfast. but those temperatures look set to climb as we move

on through the weekend. we will tap into this warm air that is sitting in place across the near continent. that will waft up in our direction. we will also bring up from the south further areas of heavy, perhaps thundery rain — particularly, we suspect, drifting towards the south—west of the uk, as high pressure has more influence to the north. some dry weather and sunshine further south. some real warmth as well, but the risk of some thunderstorms. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story: we won't beg for talks. north korea threatens to pull out of a planned summit with president trump — for a second time. italy's new prime minister—designate is due to put together his cabinet, drawn from two eurosceptic parties. a critical time to stop the latest ebola outbreak. we have a special report on how authorities in the democratic republic of congo are responding to the crisis. trade tensions move up a gear, as the us says it's investigating foreign car imports. the probe could mean hefty taxes on imported vehicles.

also coming up in the business briefing — take—away tensions. restaurants say food delivery apps are eating their profits.