hello and welcome to dateline, where each week some of the uk's best known columnists debate the weeks big stories with journalists whose dateline is london, as they report those events to the world beyond. this week: the irish vote to end the constitutional ban on abortion; we find out what some say is the price of brexit; and has north korea blinked first? with me are: henry chu, international editor at the us magazine, variety. alex deane, a british conservative commentator. agnes poirier of the french magazine, marianne; and the irish broadcaster, brian o'connell. ireland, once one of the most socially conservative countries in europe, has voted decisively to remove from its constitution the ban on almost all abortions. the two—to—one margin of victory to scrap the eighth amendment was much larger than anyone had predicted. weights brian, not only that, it was almost an exact reversal of the numbers before? how big a cultural change does the vote represent?m

is huge. it reflects a cultural change that has taken place over three decades since the 1983 referendum. driven by the obvious things, like, the catholic church, the child abuse scandals, and other things like social media, globalisation and the way in which ireland itself has changed. it is three years since we had a equal marriage referendum, which was passed with similar sort of majority. the interesting thing about this, and we have to put in a caveat that these are exit polls. the counting started at nine o'clock this morning, it finished until mid—afternoon, but the strong indications are that the vote to repeal the 1983 limitations on abortion in ireland while picked up

by people in rural areas, and across the age gaps, as well. one figures suggesting that as many as 40% of the over 65s have actually voted for its repeal. yes. it is quite a big jump, i know thatjournalists get tied up in opinion polls, but it is quite a big tied up in opinion polls, but it is quitea bigjump tied up in opinion polls, but it is quite a big jump from an opinion poll in week ago which suggested there were a huge chunk of don't knows and the gap between people who wa nted knows and the gap between people who wanted to repeal and people who didn't was shrinking rapidly, with repeal just likely ahead at the time. i suppose the other interesting question it raises is the relationship between church and state, because i was talking to a colleague who was in ireland just over a week ago, who intended a holy communion service, and i was struck by the fact that the priest was wearing a no bad, lecturing that

people should vote no, and there we re people should vote no, and there were banners all over the church. i wonder what challenge this presents the catholic church's influence in ireland? i am not cutting myself, but i think brian is surely right that the recent —— i am not catholic myself but i think brian is surely right that the recent scandals about the covering up of paedophilia is a factor. brian is right to point out that the gay marriage legislation passed with the same kind of majority, but the ability djilobodji people to come together in union is a joyful —— the ability of two people to come together in union is a joyful thing to celebrate. there is no victory in abortion, and it is a sadness for those concerned. i think the tone has been a bit wrong. it is natural for people in a binary referendum to get involved in a clash about their sides, but

actually it is not good that people will have abortions. they could get one if they came to the uk. sol think it is difficult... it is not over yet, because the proposals that the legislation were there during the legislation were there during the campaign, they were bitterly fought over, and of course, that legislation has to now go through the dail... and that is good to be hard—fought, the dail... and that is good to be hard —fought, as well. the dail... and that is good to be hard-fought, as well. although what i would say, this is not on the net is elevated as a joyful thing, i am not generally a fan of referendums, but at least in ireland, both with same—sex islands and with abortion, they were passed by a very large majority of teams of the voters, whereas in my country, where abortion and same—sex marriage have been very vexed issues,... now, we still see it with same—sex marriage and division and polarisation. at least here, there is a ground work

for the legislation which will need to be laid for this. i think... the big fear is that for a lot of people who voted no, it will be liberal alongside the british model. we started talking about it being a threat to life if the mother in uk. 190 abortions a year —— 190,000 abortions a year. this will be a huge issue for island in the next few months. well, no, because it is a large majority, as well. four. when 70%, 30%, there is no doubt. i agree with you, alex, as the young woman on that panel, abortion is not something you do likely, it is always something that you do it a result of an accident. it is not something you choose. abortion on

demand, is slightly. .. something you choose. abortion on demand, is slightly... i don't think, you know, very few women use abortion like a contraception method, and what is paramount is for young women to access safe environment where they can do it, without being judged, and that is important, because ireland, i come from the only catholic culture culture, the french republic is second, i think. culture, the french republic is second, ithink. thank culture, the french republic is second, i think. thank god. laughter and it is wonderful to see the catholic church and religion with a big are receding from the public sphere. religion is a very intimate, a spiritual thing that should not invade, i think, a spiritual thing that should not invade, ithink, the public sphere. and this is what we are seeing. at least, 2018. you say that people don't use it as a contraception. in the uk, it is safe and legal, but it is not rare. what about this

question of where it's now leaves northern ireland ? question of where it's now leaves northern ireland? because northern ireland, part of the uk, but it has a special status is far as abortion law, and pretty much it has supremely case that abortion is not available, to be good other part of the uk, if you want access it. yes. northern ireland, the 1967 abortion act does not apply in northern ireland, said people who want abortions on demand, to use the horrible expression, in northern ireland, will come to england or wales. or could conceivably go to the republic of ireland. just as it was after the people of the republic of ireland, we must all look at this and think it must be up to the people of northern ireland. problem is northern ireland does not have a

legislative body at the moment. but in the end it should be up to them. it would have to be, and it would be even more hard—fought in northern ireland,... by people who are deeply religious and conservative. that is their right to do so. but as you say, at the moment, there is no government in northern ireland. jeremy corbyn, the leader of the labour position was on a visit to northern ireland this week, and he sparked controversy with his remarks about... he has always been open about... he has always been open about being a supporter of the idea ofa about being a supporter of the idea of a united ireland. it is opposed to be by consent, it is in the good friday agreement, it would require a border poll. to think all of these pressures building up, whether they are on the social changes coming from the republican do that —— republic... do they change the scope of feeling? the rules between a

border poll are very clear. sinn fein did call for a border poll after the referendum, but there is no prospect, certainly in the short—term, and certainly the whole brexit process is completed... i don't think, i don't detect in the republic of ireland that it would necessarily be a done deal, either. people are very concerned about the economic impact of brexit, that will have on the irish economy, the thing thatis have on the irish economy, the thing that is paramount in most people's minds. i know that it has been set by the dup —— said by the dup that the irish government, that there is a republican, stroke nationalist agenda behind it,... said they are

stirring up the borderfor that reason? i don't think that's the case. and i don't detect. i think this is purely a selfish economic on the part of ireland that they don't wa nt the part of ireland that they don't want a economy destroyed. the view from europe, i share your views on the short term, but i think on the long term i would be surprised if ireland is reunited. the way that the berlin wall fell, it would be... do think it is, or? i am not saying that the history of germany and the history of ireland is the same, and just talking about the process of the people... i have the feeling, with brexit, that also, that wave, as globalisation... island is a country that has really changed in my lifetime. hang on, but a

repressive communist regime built a wall and put machine guns...|j repressive communist regime built a wall and put machine guns... i am not comparing the british army to the soviets, at all, but i'm just saying that i wouldn't be surprised if 50 or 100 years' time, ireland is not united. but provisions laid out in the good friday agreement stressed... this goes back to the downing street declaration, the principle of consent, and it is fairly clear that a majority, i don't know what the figures are now, but the majority figures in northern ireland do not want to be part of all ireland united ireland, so i think it is... it is a minority, but it is much more than 30 years ago. if you look at the irish people and northern irish people, there were like a 4% wishing that the countries where reunited. now it is more like 30%. where reunited. now it is more like 3096. but if you talk about the referendum that could take place in the republic, as well. and that's

northern ireland and northern ireland could come to sort of agreement israeli speculating pretty far into the future. ireland's border with the uk is at the heart of the negotiations for brexit. after the uk leaves the eu next year, how will goods — and people — travel between them? this week, the most senior customs official in the uk said it could happen — but at a price. max fac, the preferred option of the brexiteers designed to minimise delays at the irish border, or indeed between british ports and the continent, will cost businesses between 17 and £20 billion a year. that's about twice as much as britain's net annual contribution to the eu budget. theresa may's preferred alternative, a customs partnership with the eu would be a lot cheaper but has been dismissed in brussels as "magical thinking". imean, alex, i mean, alex, we heard that expression, we have heard it again from michel barnier saying that really, the deal about the trade

partnership is a game of hide and seek at the moment. he doesn't know what it is the british want? is it time for the british to get real and agree on what they wanted tabs that trade relationship and make the case for it? i think you have put the question very peculiarly. we do know what trade relationship we do want. there is no customs border president clinton liebert tween landed in southern ireland. it is much easier to facilitate trade across that border than is currently being made out, not least because both the united kingdom and europe but the violence invaded what a hard border. the only parties talking about a ha rd the only parties talking about a hard border is the european union, which might tell you something about the kind of people we are negotiating with. while dublin they have a view, and people in brussels it on their hands and wait, the british cabinets... britain's going

to leave the eu next march, and there will be a short transition period of less than two years, but we still can't get, from the british government, a clear idea of exactly what they want. now, there are certain things, for example, by allowing northern ireland to stay within the customs union for a certain period of time, that may or may not work, but until the british government axes says, this is what we want, and this is what the entire british cabinets is behind. i'm sorry, this worked very well in the scottish referendum, when right up to it, it was very unclear what they wanted, it was actually very clear what the scots wanted. it is very clear that the united kingdom wants to be able to facilitate maximum possible trade with the eu was not signing... but how? what is the mechanism? let us talk about... we

keep going around this. it is plain that the ability to trade across either the channel or the border in ireland is one in which there are a couple of models both in norway and switzerland and improving technology... but what model does the british cabinets want? we don't wa nt to the british cabinets want? we don't want to have a hard border in northern ireland. henry, do you think that evidence from the head of the hm rc made any difference to how people perceive this issue? well, i think it was a shocker, and nobody was expect in that kind of figure to be drawn out. some people think it was drawn out of a hat. others, did think it has quite sank in yet. whether it would have an impact on the government's negotiations, is another story. i still think regardless of what theresa may says she was, her cabinet is a divided one, and there is no agreement yet one, and there is no agreement yet on exact how to come up with eight

mechanism to make this frictionless trade possible. that is a great goal, that is what they willjust strive for id leave. but... hang on. the idea that you would have to do more than that in ireland, a country in which much of the trade going across the border in northern ireland and southern islands, and recognise that their material going across the border could be regulated with greater use is a farce. it is a fast pot treated —— perpetuated by the eu. they have got to get real. the eu caveats and quibbles when... we are talking about customs borders. i would like to bring in

the question of the conservative policy, and there lies the secret to brexit. and the key to brexit. because they get what michel barnier thinks, what is it going to be? because we have the brexiteers. they could actually trigger a no—confidence vote for may. but then what? to do what afterwards? then there is a eu summit injune and each time it is the same story, we need to come, it —— come up with some ideas and some planning order to bring the tech sit —— bring the brexit talks further. it needs to be resolved by october, not much. because there is the whole process of ratification, which is long. theresa may came up with in a way the only proposition she could get on the table, was, can we have a

second transition period and extended to 2023, so that we can all agree? but i think it is really... the tory party has the key to this, because are they going to get rid of her? do they have planned the? who as at the tory party and then general elections, probably. who is leading the tory party, the problem remains that they can't agree on what they want. exactly. and do you think a extended and transition period looks more likely now?|j period looks more likely now?” think it is very... think if you can wrap it up within the life of this parliament it is far easier allegedly deserved that than not. but we will know that whether the deadline is march or october, i agree with you, it could be either. realistically, you got used to before the parliamentary schedule, but when ever the deadline is, that's when the deal gets done. all deals are made in the 11th hour. the

59th minute of the 11th hour. this is still posturing all round. the real negotiations will happen in the final hour. so many eu deals are just kicking the can down the road, but this is not a can that can be kicked down the road. politically, eitherfor kicked down the road. politically, either for the kicked down the road. politically, eitherfor the uk kicked down the road. politically, either for the uk or for the kicked down the road. politically, eitherfor the uk orfor the eu. kicked down the road. politically, either for the uk or for the eu. the italians have got a populist government forming, so what they do? the teenager does badly in his exams, bloody brits, go home and kick the can! donald trump and kim jong—un, the leader of north korea, could be talking after all. on thursday, after a series of incendiary statements from pyongyang, donald trump wrote to mr kim saying their face—to—face meeting next month was off. by friday night, though, president trump was tweeting that the two countries were having "productive talks" about meeting in singapore on june 12th, as originally planned. henry, in a sense, this is a bit of

a triumph for donald trump's brinkmanship? the north korean suite him and pushed him and got a bit funny, andy said it off, they came running back? i think when you're dealing with a dictatorial secretive leader who. .. dealing with a dictatorial secretive leader who... it is impossible to predict what is going on, and also kimjong—un! predict what is going on, and also kim jong-un! come on! i think that is absolutely true, it is unpredictable. in fact, is absolutely true, it is unpredictable. infact, it is absolutely true, it is unpredictable. in fact, it is north korea that has surprised us by being more conciliatory. but what i think i'm seeing from both sides, is perhaps a hastiness that hasn't born really good fruit, because then it's be the groundwork for any kind of meeting. only a few months ago, donald trump was talking about fire

and theory. suddenly he turns around and theory. suddenly he turns around and says that he is going to meet the leader of north korea. but at the leader of north korea. but at the same time, we have got another secretary of state, a second one, within little over a year, the damage has been purged, ——... rescued about science, it has not really been done. while i think there is desire both both kim jong—un and bike camp to meet, the june 12 date, i don't think that'll happen. i think then it's be a bit more ground work. they were talking, i think more ground work. they were talking, ithink in more ground work. they were talking, i think in washington, that there we re i think in washington, that there were already officials going to be on their way this weekend to try and lay the ground work. but it is a tight schedule? it is too tight. we don't think about china and japan. china has breathed a sigh of relief, because this is a long—term thing. nuclear diplomacy... kim is not a

competing property developer, it's not how you do this. you prepare it, and behind the scene, the negotiation is probably better, and we should switch off the twitter account for at least the time of the negotiations, everyone to go that far. what about the big question of visitors denuclearisation? the north koreans have made significant concessions, already. this is real progress. admittedly, it would be far better to have nuclear experts instead of journalists, far better to have nuclear experts instead ofjournalists, no offence! but never the less, that is significant progress. the same way that releasing hostages is progress. this may be weird diplomacy, but it is still diplomacy and is still going in the right direction. the

problem, i think, going in the right direction. the problem, ithink, you going in the right direction. the problem, i think, you do have two, i agree with alex, yes, it is progress, there is definitely progress. the problem with it is that i think donald trump doesn't see anything in the long or even medium—term strategic geopolitical sense, he does see it, i think, as he said, like a real estate, i can doa he said, like a real estate, i can do a deal with this guy. that is the way that he sees it. i think it would probably be better if they didn't hold the summit on the 12th ofjune, didn't hold the summit on the 12th of june, whatever the didn't hold the summit on the 12th ofjune, whatever the date is at the moment, because i think they would have a better chance of some kind of... actually, we are willing to call your love. we were just go along with this forever. there is no doubt about it. —— call your bluff. they played regime after regime in the us to the nth degree. but donald

trump does not consider what happens three ms than the road. —— three moves down the road. kim jong-un is maybe playing donald trump, by being more conciliar tree... maybe playing donald trump, by being more conciliar tree. .. they have got different interests. and not sure they are there on the same page. the us wants unilateral disarmament on the north korean side. china and north korea would like to see the corresponding de—escalation in the peninsula. there are 20,000 us troops in south korea. and officials to me this week, he wondered if there might be division in the north korean leadership, that the military leadership might not be entirely supportive of this change. they will not be happy about denuclearisation. look what happened ——

not be happy about denuclearisation. look what happened -- look what happened to saddam hussein. you should follow the model, deposed leader— that's not good to go anywhere. it needs to be done. leader— that's not good to go anywhere. it needs to be donefi leader— that's not good to go anywhere. it needs to be done. it is good to be an interesting few weeks or months ahead if he does go ahead. thank you very much for being with us. at least you can rely on dateline london to be in the usual place at the usual next time — unless of course you say something really rude about us in the meantime, because remember: our red button is bigger than yours. from all of us here, goodbye. hello, it will be warm and sunny for

many. already had the odd rumble of two thunderstorms so far, today. showers will be focused through but the midlands, towards east anglia and the south—west. could be quite nasty in places. brightening up in eastern areas after a cool and cloudy start. west of scotland, predicted the highlands, 25 or maybe 2627 to the south—east of london. looking good for the premiership final and the rugby at twickenham, but there is their risk of those storms. one of two could be crossing the area as we get rid part of the afternoon. as we go into tonight, some even worst and could be putting out of france, with frequent lightning. flash flooding, as well.

they will be hit and miss, many places will still stay predominantly dry, and a belief in northern england and northern ireland, temperatures could drop back into single figures. a bit of mist and low cloud forming, a muggy night in the mid—teens. could be some residual showers on sunday. maybe one or two drifting into northern ireland, too, but as temperatures lifting the day with some sunny spells across the south, that is where we could see further thunderstorms developed. south—west having a better day than today, though. much of the opening of, way from liverpool and manchester, that is where we could still see some showers. and for a time, northern ireland's dry with some sunshine, and warm once again. had we compare with the rest of europe, lots of thunderstorms across many western areas. around the coast and mediterranean, should be dry and sunny. temperatures can parable with what we have in the uk in the low to

mid 20s. bank holiday monday, focus the showers will be a bit further north. northern england, southern scotla nd north. northern england, southern scotland and northern ireland. north—west highlands and scotland, as is the case all weekend. feeling lovely in that sunshine, too. southern areas of england and wales dry, sunny and warm once again. this is bbc news. i'm shaun ley. the headlines at midday. the main group opposing the relaxation of ireland's strict abortion law concedes that it's lost the referendum by an overwhelming margin. women should have the choice for a safe abortion, simple as that. i don't think we should have to be looked upon that the only reason you can have an abortion with any light on it is if we are attacked. this is a referendum on the right to life. we all have a right to life. nobody

would vote away somebody else's right to live. "an utter failure" — mps say measures supposed to protect afg ha n interpreters who assisted british troops have failed to help any of them relocate to britain the owners of high street chain boots are accused of over—charging the nhs and exploiting patients by selling medicines at inflated prices. five weeks after disruptions were first reported, some tsb customers are still having problems making payments online. countdown to kick—off, as liverpool fans pour into kiev