this is bbc news — our latest headlines: the irish prime minister has hailed his country's "quiet revolution" as many results point to a "resounding" vote for overturning ireland's abortion ban. south korea says its president met the north korean leader kim jong—un for two hours in the demilitarised zone between the two countries. iranian media are reporting that nazanin zaghari—ratcliffe — a british—iranian woman imprisoned in tehran — will face security—related charges in a second case being brought against her. the government has referred the owner of the high street chain boots to the competition authorities, over the prices it's charging the nhs for some drugs. we expect soon the official declaration in dublin of the result of the referendum on the country's abortion laws. all the indications

are from the results we've been seeing from the various constituencies that the vote for liberalising those laws has far outstripped the vote to retain them. that is where the official declaration will take place, inside dublin castle. we will be back when it happens. now on bbc news, it's time for dateline london. hello and welcome to dateline, where each week some of the uk's best known columnists debate the weeks big stories with journalists whose dateline is london, as they report those events to the world beyond. this week: the irish vote to end the constitutional ban on abortion; we find out what some say is the price of brexit, and has north korea blinked first?

with me are: henry chu, international editor at the us magazine, variety. alex deane, a british conservative commentator. agnes poirier of the french magazine, marianne, and the irish broadcaster, brian o'connell. ireland, once one of the most socially conservative countries in europe, has voted decisively to remove from its constitution the ban on almost all abortions. the two—to—one margin of victory to scrap the eighth amendment was much larger than anyone had predicted. brian, not only that, it was almost an exact reversal of the numbers in 1983? how big a cultural change does the vote represent? it is huge. it reflects a cultural change that has taken place over three decades since the 1983 referendum. driven by the obvious things, like, the catholic church, the child abuse scandals, and other things like social media, globalisation and the way in which ireland itself has changed.

it is three years since we had a equal marriage referendum, which was passed with similar sort of majority. the interesting thing about this, and we have to put in a caveat that these are exit polls. the counting started at nine o'clock this morning, it's not finished until mid—afternoon, but the strong indications are that the vote to repeal the 1983 limitations on abortion in ireland was picked up by people in rural areas, and across the age gaps, as well. one figures suggesting that as many as 40% of the over 65s have actually voted for its repeal. yes. it is quite a big jump, i know that journalists get tied

up in opinion polls, but it is quite a big jump from an opinion poll a week ago which suggested there were a huge chunk of don't knows and the gap between people who wanted to repeal and people who didn't was shrinking rapidly, with repeal just likely ahead at the time. i suppose the other interesting question it raises is the relationship between church and state, because i was talking to a colleague who was in ireland just over a week ago, who intended a holy communion service, and i was struck by the fact that the priest was wearing a no badge, lecturing that people should vote no, and there were banners all over the church. i wonder what challenge this presents the catholic church's influence in ireland? i am not catholic myself, but i think brian is surely right that the recent scandals about the covering up of paedophilia is a factor. brian is right to point out

that the gay marriage legislation passed with the same kind of majority, but the ability of two people to come together in union is a joyful thing to celebrate. there is no victory in abortion, and it is a sadness for those concerned. i think the tone has been a bit wrong. it is natural for people in a binary referendum to get involved in a clash about their sides, but actually it is not good that people will have abortions. the reality is they could get one if they came to the uk. so i think it is difficult... it is not over yet, because the proposals that the legislation were there during the campaign,

they were bitterly fought over, and of course, that legislation has to now go through the dail... and that is going to be hard —fought, as well. although what i would say, this is being celebrated as a joyful thing, i am not generally a fan of referendums, but at least in ireland, both with same—sex marriage and with abortion, they were passed by a very large majority of the voters, whereas in my country, where abortion and same—sex marriage have been very vexed issues... now, we still see it with same—sex marriage and division and polarisation. at least here, there is a ground work for the legislation which will need to be laid for this. the big fear is that for a lot of people who voted no, it will be liberal alongside the british model. they want to avoid that. in the uk

we started talking about it being a threat to the life of the mother and we have started out with it being abortion on demand. the uk has 190,000 abortions a year. this will be a huge issue for ireland in the next few months. i think the irish have shown britain how to a referendum. well, no, because it is a large majority, as well. when 70%, 30%, there is no doubt. i agree with you, alex, as the only woman on the panel, abortion is not something you do lightly, it is always something that you do it a result of an accident. it is not something you choose. abortion on demand, is slightly... i don't think, you know, very few women use abortion like a contraception method, and what is paramount is for young women to access a safe environment where they can do it, without being judged, and that is important, because ireland, i come from the only other catholic

culture, the french republic is second, i think. thank god. laughter and it is wonderful to see the catholic church and religion with a big r receding from the public sphere. religion is a very intimate, a spiritual thing that should not invade, i think, the public sphere. and this is what we are seeing. at least, 2018. you say that people don't use it as a contraception. in the uk, it is safe and legal, but it is not rare. what about this question of where it now leaves northern ireland? because northern ireland, part of the uk, but it has a special status is far as abortion law, and pretty much it has to be the case that abortion is not available, to be going other part of the uk, if you want access it.

yes. northern ireland, the 1967 abortion act does not apply in northern ireland, so people who want abortions on demand, to use the horrible expression, in northern ireland, will come to england or wales. or could conceivably go to the republic of ireland. just as it was after the people of the republic of ireland, we must all look at this and think it must be up to the people of northern ireland. problem is northern ireland does not have a legislative body at the moment. but in the end it should be up to them. it would have to be, and it would be even more hard—fought in northern ireland... by people who are deeply religious and conservative. that is their right to do so. but as you say, at the moment, there is no government

in northern ireland. jeremy corbyn, the leader of the labour position was on a visit to northern ireland this week, and he sparked controversy with his remarks. he has always been open about being a supporter of the idea of a united ireland. it is supposed to be by consent, it is in the good friday agreement, it would require a border poll. to think all of these pressures building up, whether they are on the social changes coming from the republic... do they change the scope of feeling? the rules between a border poll are very clear. sinn fein did call for a border poll after the referendum, but there is no prospect, certainly in the short—term, and certainly until the whole brexit process is completed... i don't think, i don't detect in the republic of ireland that it

would necessarily be a done deal, either. people are very concerned about the economic impact of brexit, that will have on the irish economy, the thing that is paramount in most people's minds. i know that it has been said by the dup that the irish government, that there is a republican, stroke nationalist agenda behind it. so they are stirring up the border for that reason? i don't think that's the case. and i don't detect... i think this is purely a selfish economic desire on the part of ireland that they don't want a economy destroyed. the view from europe, i share your views on the short term, but i think on the long term i would be surprised

if ireland is reunited. the way that the berlin wall fell, it would be... do think it is comparable? i am not saying that the history of germany and the history of ireland is the same, and just talking about the process of the people... i have the feeling, with brexit, that also, as well as globalisation, ireland is a country that has really changed in my lifetime. hang on, but a repressive communist regime built a wall and put machine guns... i am not comparing the british army to the soviets, at all, but i'm just saying that i wouldn't be surprised if in 50 or 100 years' time, ireland is not united. ireland is not reunited.

but provisions laid out in the good friday agreement stressed... this goes back to the downing street declaration, the principle of consent, and it is fairly clear that a majority, i don't know what the figures are now, but the majority figures in northern ireland do not want to be part of all ireland united ireland, so i think it is... it is a minority, but it is much more than 30 years ago. if you look at the irish people and northern irish people, there were like a 4% wishing that the countries were reunited. now it is more like 30%. but if you talk about the referendum that could take place in the republic, as well. and that's northern ireland and southern ireland could come to sort of agreement is really speculating pretty far into the future. ireland's border with the uk is at the heart of the negotiations for brexit. after the uk leaves the eu next year, how will goods — and people — travel between them?

this week, the most senior customs official in the uk said it could happen — but at a price. max fac, the preferred option of the brexiteers designed to minimise delays at the irish border, or indeed between british ports and the continent, will cost businesses between 17 and £20 billion a year. that's about twice as much as britain's net annual contribution to the eu budget. theresa may's preferred alternative, a customs partnership with the eu would be a lot cheaper but has been dismissed in brussels as "magical thinking". i mean, alex, we heard that expression, we have heard it again from michel barnier saying that really, the deal about the trade partnership is a game of hide and seek at the moment. he doesn't know what it is the british want? is it time for the british to get real and agree on what they want from that trade relationship and make the case for it? i think you have put the question very peculiarly. we do know what trade

relationship we do want. no customs border presently between northern and southern ireland but there is an excise border, it's easy to facilitate trade across the border compared what is being made out, because the next kingdom and the republic of ireland said he did not want a hard border. the only parties talking about a hard border is the european union, which might tell you something about the kind of people we are negotiating with. the british cabinet cannot decide themselves what they want. while dublin they have a view, and people in brussels sit on their hands and wait, the british cabinets... britain's going to leave the eu next march, and there will be a short transition period of less than two years, but we still can't get, from the british government, a clear idea of exactly what they want. now, there are certain things, for example, by allowing northern ireland to stay

within the customs union for a certain period of time, that may or may not work, but until the british government actually says, this is what we want, and this is what the entire british cabinet is behind... i'm sorry, this sort of posturing worked very well in the scottish referendum, when right up to it, they said it was very unclear what they wanted, it was actually very clear what the scots wanted. it is very clear that the united kingdom wants to be able to facilitate maximum possible trade with the eu withut possible trade with the eu without signing... but how? what is the mechanism? we keep going around this. it is plain that the ability to trade across either the channel or the border in ireland is one in which there area couple of models both in norway and switzerland and improving technology... but what model does the british cabinet want?

we don't want to have a hard border in northern ireland. henry, do you think that evidence from the head of the hmrc made any difference to how people perceive this issue? well, i think it was a shocker, and nobody was expect in that kind of figure to be drawn out. some people think it was drawn out of a hat. others don't think it has quite sank in yet. whether it would have an impact on the government's negotiations, is another story. i still think regardless of what theresa may says she wants, her cabinet is a divided one, and there is no agreement yet on exact how to come up with a mechanism to make this frictionless trade possible. that is a great goal, that is what they willjust strive for after we leave. but... hang on. the idea that you would have to do more than that in ireland, a country in which much of the trade

going across the border in northern ireland and southern ireland, and recognise that their material going across the border could be regulated with greater use is a farce, perpetuated by the eu. they have got to get real. not least when the uk says we make an unconditional offer on security and eu caveats and quibbles. they say we don't know what we want, we made an unconditional offer to cooperate on security and they said no. we are talking about customs borders. i would like to bring in the question of the conservative party, and there lies the secret to brexit. and the key to brexit. because forget what michel barnier thinks, what is it going to be? because we have the brexiteers. they could actually trigger

a no—confidence vote for may. but then what? to do what afterwards? then there is a eu summit injune and each time it is the same story, we need to come up with some ideas and some plan in order to bring the brexit talks further. it needs to be resolved by october, not march. because there is the whole process of ratification, which is long. theresa may came up with in a way the only proposition she could get on the table, was, can we have a second transition period and extend it to 2023, so that we can all agree? but i think it's really, the tory party has the key to this because are they going to get rid of her? do

they have a plan b? who else and the party and then general elections probably? who is leading the tory party, the problem remains that they can't agree on what they want. exactly. do you think an extended transition period looks more likely now? i think it is very... i think if you can wrap it up within the life of this parliament it is far easier than not. but we will know that whether the deadline is march or october, i agree with you, it could be either. but whenever the deadline is, that's when the deal gets done. all deals are made in the 11th hour. the 59th minute of the 11th hour. this is still posturing all round. the real negotiations will happen in the final hour. that is true. so many eu deals are just kicking the can down the road, but this is not a can that can be kicked down the road. politically, either

for the uk orfor the eu. the italians have got a populist government forming, so what they do? the teenager does badly in his exams, bloody brits, go home and kick the can! a british former secretary used to talk about summits as being one or two match at summits, i think this one you will need to pack a very large number of shirts to get through. donald trump and kim jong—un, the leader of north korea, could be talking after all. on thursday, after a series of incendiary statements from pyongyang, donald trump wrote to mr kim saying their face—to—face meeting next month was off. by friday night, though, president trump was tweeting that the two countries were having "productive talks" about meeting in singapore on june 12th, as originally planned. henry, in a sense, this is a bit of a triumph for donald trump's brinkmanship? the north koreans pushed him and got a bit funny, and he set it off, and then they came running back? i think when you're dealing with a dictatorial secretive

leader where it is impossible to predict what is going on, and also kimjong—un! come on! i think that is absolutely true, it is unpredictable. in fact, it is north korea that has surprised us by being more conciliatory. but what i think i'm seeing from both sides, is perhaps a hastiness that hasn't born really good fruit, because then it's be the groundwork for any kind of meeting. only a few months ago, donald trump was talking about fire and theory. suddenly he turns around and says that he is going to meet the leader of north korea. but at the same time, we have got another secretary of state, a second one, within little over a year. the state department has been gutted

of many high ranking diplomats, we don't even have a ambassador to south korea saw a lot of the groundwork which needs to be laid has not been done. while i think there is desire both kim jong—un and trump to meet, the june 12 date, i don't think that'll happen. i think then it's going to need a bit more ground work. they were talking, i think in washington, that there were already officials going to be on their way this weekend to try and lay the ground work. but it is a tight schedule? it is too tight. we don't think about china and japan. japan has breathed a sigh of relief, because this is a long—term thing. nuclear diplomacy... kim is not a competing property developer, it's not how you do this. you prepare it, and behind the scenes, the negotiation is probably better, and we should switch off the twitter account for at least the time of the negotiations,

if we want to go that far. what about the big question of denuclearisation? the north koreans have made significant concessions, already. allowing journalists to see them dismantle things. this is real progress. admittedly, it would be far better to have nuclear experts instead ofjournalists, no offence! but never the less, that is significant progress. the same way that releasing hostages is progress. this may be weird diplomacy, but it is still diplomacy and is still going in the right direction. the problem, ithink, i agree with alex, yes, it is progress, there is definitely progress. the problem with it is that i think donald trump doesn't see anything in the long or even medium—term strategic geopolitical sense, he does see it, i think,

as he said, like a real estate, "i can do a deal with this guy." that is the way that he sees it. i think it would probably be better if they didn't hold the summit on the 12th ofjune, whatever the date is at the moment, because i think they would have a better chance of some kind of... actually, we are willing to call your bluff. we were just going along with this forever. there is no doubt about it. they played regime after regime in the us to the nth degree. but donald trump does not consider what happens three moves than the road. kim jong—un is maybe playing donald trump, by being more conciliatry. they have got different interests. i'm not sure they are

there on the same page. the us wants unilateral disarmament on the north korean side. china and north korea would like to see the corresponding de—escalation in the peninsula. there are 20,000 us troops in south korea. an official said to me this week, he wondered if there might be division in the north korean leadership, that the military leadership might not be entirely supportive of this change. they will not be happy about denuclearisation. look what happened, look what happened to saddam hussein. you should follow the libiya model, deposed leader — that's not going to go anywhere.

it needs to be done. it is going to be an interesting few weeks or months ahead if he does go ahead. thank you very much for being with us. but the next day so far, some of us have had sunshine, in other areas the clouds have been growing through the clouds have been growing through the course of the day and a risk of thunderstorms this evening, they will be affecting mostly southern areas of the uk, the west country,

possibly reaching parts of the midlands and wales by the time you get to the evening and could be a lot of rainfall in a short space of time in areas, frequent lightning, hailstorm is possible as well. many northern areas escape the thunderstorms and by the end of the night and they should have rolled through the south and there will be a bit ofa through the south and there will be a bit of a lull before the return tomorrow. very muggy start to the day tomorrow, thunderstorms popping off, widespread across the south, further north, probably missing the thunderstorms again tomorrow. another warm and muggy day. this is bbc news. i'm annita mcveigh. the headlines at five. early results suggest the republic of ireland has voted by a landslide to relax some of the world's most restrictive abortion laws. the prime minister says it's a quiet revolution. it means that ireland is a country

that trust women and respect their decisions. and i am in dublin. in what has been a historic referendum and a historic day on the horizon. the leaders of north and south korea hold talks as a us delegation heads to singapore before a possible meeting between president trump and kimjong un. countdown to kick off — as liverpool fans soak up the atmosphere in kiev ahead of tonight's champions league final. jurgen klopp says winning is in liverpool's dna as the reds aim to stop real madrid from winning a third successive title.