hello. it's thursday. it's 9 o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. welcome to the programme. this morning we have an exclusive interview with the mum who's launching a legal battle to try to force the crown prosecution service to re—investigate her daughter's death. 22—year—old jourdain john—ba ptiste fell from her fourth floor balcony three years ago. her boyfriend, the other person in the flat at the time, tells us he didn't kill her or cause her to fall. tracey john—ba ptiste says she won't give up. she was heard, on the balcony, screaming, "somebody help me, please, somebody help me" shortly before the fall. now i can't understand why there have been no prosecutions and no charges made on this case. we will have that exclusive interview at 9.15. are you one of 3 million people

in the uk who use high—cost credit to pay for some of your household items and appliances? this morning the financial conduct authority has announced it is considering capping the prices charged by rent—to—own lenders. have you used them and what would that mean for you? we will bring you all the details. the muslim council of britain is calling for an independent inquiry into alleged islamophobia in the conservative party. they've written an open letter to the party's chairman, saying he must remove racists and bigots from the party. one of their leaders will tell us why they've taken this step. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. later we're going to talk about germaine greer‘s comments that, quote, "most rape is just lazy, just careless, just insensitive." the feminist, who says she was raped

herself before her 19th birthday, says rapists shouldn't be jailed but should have an r tattooed on their cheek and be made to do community service. i'm going to ask you this morning if you have been raped to tell us what you have been raped to tell us what you think and you can talk to us anonymously. if you are getting in touch, you are very welcome. you can get in touch through facebook, twitter, email and whatsapp. our top story today: the financial conduct authority has announced a crackdown on companies which offer credit with high rates of interest. the proposals include a cap on the amount that can be charged by rent—to—own companies, which can charge large sums for customers buying household goods, and restrictions on door—step lenders. our business reporter rob young is here. let's talk specifically about what

they are going to do. these are quite wide—ranging reports from the watchdog. they are looking at high cost credit and they say in some cases people are in financial harm because for the 3 million people resorting to these companies, these lenders, they are the most financially vulnerable. their credit rating is so low that it would be very difficult to get a mainstream loan. and they have said that when it comes to unauthorised overdrafts from your bank, which is when you withdraw money which has not been agreed in advance, they say they should be more transparent in their fees in the future and banks should alert us before we get into a situation where we are spending money that we perhaps shouldn't be. they haven't gone as far as campaigners have wanted. they will not be introducing a payday loan type cap on unauthorised overdraft fees. but this is something that the regulator has said it will consider because it is looking at the high street banking model more broadly.

they found that in just one year we paid £2.5 billion in overdraft fees to banks, and when you spend money in an unauthorised overdraft, it is more expensive than taking out a payday loan. and what about rent to own companies? what have they said about the high cost of interest when you go into one of those stores to buy a washer which on the high street might be £300 but if you pay it back over three years it can cost you £1500. that particular example was cited this morning by the fda. in principle they want to introduce a cap, so that £300 fridge or cooker oi’ a cap, so that £300 fridge or cooker or whatever else, will not cost £1500 in the future but they have not said what the cap will be. £600? £900? is not said what the cap will be. £600? £900 ? is that not said what the cap will be. £600? £900? is that acceptable to them? this will go out to consultation and they will do more work on this because they want to work out what

the impact will be. if you introduce a cap that is very low, good for consumers but bad for the businesses that provide the services and they might say it is not with them being in business which that service would some people rely on could disappear. how much good this save consumers? the financial conduct authority says it could be hundreds of millions of pounds a year when the proposals kick in. it will not be immediate. some will be next year and some will be later than that. they are out for consultation and some could be tough and, like the overdrafts, and others could be watered down if there is pushback from industry. thank you. if you have used high cost credit, loa ns, re nt if you have used high cost credit, loans, rent to own companies, payday loa ns, loans, rent to own companies, payday loans, please let us know your experience. how much did you know your experience. how much did y°u pay know your experience. how much did you pay back any end, if you were

able to pay it back in the end? that is something we have discussed on the programme before. send an email oi’ the programme before. send an email or tweet or use whatsapp. annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. the us secretary of state, mike pompeo, says he had a good working dinner with general kim yong—chol, the most senior north korean to visit america in nearly 20 years. the pair are trying to smooth the way for president trump to meet kim jong—un next month. our state department correspondent, barbara plett usher, reports. just months ago, the idea that this powerful north korean official could visit new york city was unthinkable. but here he is, with a mission to salvage the summit. kim yong—chol got close to president trump's inner circle during the south korean winter 0lympics, but there was no communication then. and the communication since has been on again, off again over differences about the extent and pace of nuclear disarmament. now the north korean leader has sent him to try and find some common ground. the conversation is going to be focussed on denuclearisation of the peninsula. that's what these ongoing conversations taking place now will be centred on, as well as this summit that will take place in singapore.

and we're going to continue... as long as that is part of the discussion we're going to continue to shoot forjune 12th. 0ptimistic words and friendly images from the dinner with the secretary of state, mike pompeo, at a private residence in manhattan. but officials here say for the summit to be successful, the north koreans have to make clear what steps to denuclearisation they're willing to take. last week, president trump decided to pull out of the historic event in response to what he called anger and hostility from pyongyang. but a conciliatory response from north korea changed the mood music. and it's clear now both leaders want the summit to take place. so many believe these two men will find a way to make it happen. barbara plett—usher, bbc news, new york. the hollywood film producer harvey weinstein, has been told that he will face trial on charges of rape and a criminal sexual act. the offences relate

to alleged attacks on two women in 2013 and 200a. harvey weinstein‘s lawyer has said he will deny all the charges against him. a statement from the manhattan district attorney's office said the case would be tried in the courtroom, not in the press. authorities in ukraine have been criticised for faking the murder of russian journalist and kremlin critic, arkady babchenko. the plot, which was designed to expose hitmen paid by russian forces, only came to light when babchenko appeared at a news conference about his own death. an official from the organisation for security and co—operation in europe said ukraine was spreading false information, while the group reporters without borders said it was part of an information war. they don't fit in, don't want the hassle, and struggle with complex issues. they are just some of the excuses given for not appointing women to the boards of the uk's top 100 companies, according to a report on gender balance. the government—backed review called it shocking, while a minister branded the reasons pitiful. it has recommended that at least a third of the 350 ftse company board members are women by 2020.

american reality tv star kim kardashian west has met president trump to appeal for clemency for a 63—year—old woman serving a life sentence for a first—time non—violent drug offence. donald trump posted a picture with the reality tv star inside the oval office saying they'd talked about prison reform and sentencing. ultimately it will be the president who decides if alicejohnson should be granted a pardon. the muslim council of britain has repeated its demand for the conservatives to hold an independent inquiry into alleged islamophobia within the party. in an open letter, it says there are now more than weekly incidents involving tory candidates and representatives. a conservative spokesman said all allegations were taken seriously, and the party had suspended anyone who had behaved inappropriately. scientists in germany say it's not possible to have a healthy heart and be overweight, even if there were no signs of other health problems. the researchers followed 90,000

women for more than two decades and showed any level of excess fat led to a greater risk of heart attack and stroke. however, scientists in the us have criticised the findings. they say their own work shows being fit can protect the heart even in obesity. nick grimshaw has announced he will step down from hosting the bbc radio1 breakfast show in september. grimshaw has presented the breakfast show since 2012 and will now launch a new drivetime show on the station. greg james, who currently hosts the 4—7 slot on the station, was announced as the new breakfast host live on this morning's show after nick grimshaw explained his reasons for leaving. i'm really tired. like, so tired. like, you've no idea. come september, i will have been doing it for six years. and i've decided that it's time for a change. it's going to be time for a new show. and, most importantly, it's going to be time for a new wake—up time. preferably about 11:30am.

11:30, a little dog walk, maybe a bit of lunch. i've loved doing the breakfast show, but i'm not going to do it any more. the world's largest known freshwater pearl, which once belonged to catherine the great, is going up for auction in the netherlands. known as the sleeping lion due to its shape, it is thought to have originated in chinese waters in the first half of the 18th century. the pearl is thought to be around 300 years old, during which time it has changed hands between colonial merchants, jewellers and european royals. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. more at 9.30. thank you. and thank you for your comments aboutjermaine greer. she has been talking about rape, describing it... describing most rape is just lazy, just insensitive,

just careless. and she has suggested that it would be better for rapists to have the letter are tattooed on their cheek rather than a jail sentence. —— the letter r. this email says i agree. that way women and children would know not to go near them and be safer. hannah says: i believe that no matter what you have done in life, as a christian, you can change, and change your life for the better, so the comments about tatooine r on a rapist‘s cheek are absolutely ridiculous. just because they have raped somebody does not mean they will be a rapist will live or do it again. this has angered me. please get in touch with us angered me. please get in touch with us about these comments, particularly if you have an experience of being raped. please send us an email or message on facebook or whatsapp. john walton is here with the sport and there is

some breaking news about frank lampard. yes, news of a big managerial appointment at derby county. frank lampa rd, managerial appointment at derby county. frank lampard, the former chelsea and england midfielder, he is the new man taking charge of the championship club. simon is with me, oui’ championship club. simon is with me, our football reporter. 21 years as a player and we know about his success at chelsea and england with all those caps. but taking over at derby is farfrom those caps. but taking over at derby is far from straightforward, let's be honest. not at all. derby had high standard and they have not quite got there in the play—offs again this season. the chairman is very ambitious and he wanted somebody who would cross the great divide and get the club into the premier league. frank lampard signed a three—year contract. the statement is that frank lampard is a winner and a leaderand is that frank lampard is a winner and a leader and he has the charisma to bea and a leader and he has the charisma to be a fantastic manager for them. frank lampard himself as saying he

knows it will not be easy but he is really looking forward to the challenge. the big question is can somebody who has really onlyjust finished their playing career, a stellar playing career, when he won every major on in the game, can he be an effective manager outside the top flight in england? interesting point outlets picked up on that. dion dublin was speaking on five live last night and he was talking about the expectations of all of the midlands clubs and derby is no exception. i think there is a huge amount of pressure from above at derby and the fans at derby to say we have got to achieve now. i don't really care who is in charge. if you wa nt really care who is in charge. if you want to appoint him, appoint him, but it has got to work this time. we know that derby have been desperate trying to secure promotion to the premier league and they have secured a lot of managers, seven in the last four years. that is a big question.

will he be given time if things are not going quite right immediately? that is the big question but frank lampard that is the big question but frank lampa rd has that is the big question but frank lampard has said he had spoken for a long time with mr morris to try and work out precisely what the aims of the club are, is precisely what kind of backing he will get to achieve those aims. i suppose mr morris will look at it in the sense that they have had experienced managers who have had experienced managers who have not worked and has not delivered what he wanted. so maybe somebody like frank lampard with the charisma and background that he had can attract players to get them into the premier league. that is it, attracting players. younger players coming through would probably love to work with frank lampard. and the word is thatjodie morris, the under 21 coach, and they have a fantastic youth set—up at derby, he will go with frank lampard, and who knows? there has been talk of chelsea bringing the kids through who don't

get games, and maybejodie morris knows who the brilliant kids are, can bring them to derby and that will be the catalyst to get them into the premier league? thank you for that. that is the main story from the bbc sport centre this morning. we will have news on that throughout the morning and news on most other as well then we bring you are next update at around 9:30am. —— news on mo salah as well. thank you. in the early hours of friday 21st august 2015, 22—year—old jourdain john—baptiste died after falling from her fourth floor balcony in enfield in north london. the other person in her flat at the time was her boyfriend. an argument had broken out between the couple and witnesses heard her shout "somebody help me" shortly before she fell. an inquest into her death concluded the 22—year—old died from multiple injuries sustained in the fall, and the coroner said foul play could not be ruled out. in a statement to this programme,

her then boyfriend says this: "my sympathy goes out tojourdain‘s family and friends, but i did not killjourdain, nor did i cause her to fall to her death." after considering all the evidence and reviewing the case three times, the cps said there wasn't enough evidence to take the case to trial. now in an exclusive interview, jourdain john—baptiste's mother tracey and her lawyer harriet wistrich tell this programme why they're launching a judicial review to try and overturn that decision. tracey began by telling us about her daughter. jourdain, she was a very bright, intelligent, funny girl. she had strong opinions. wasn't afraid to say them out loud. and she was an extremely loyal human being. she was really lovely. when did you first know that

something was wrong withjourdain? we got a knock on the door around 4 o'clock on the morning of 21st august 2015. the police were asking us if we had a daughter called jourdain. and that she was in a critical state in hospital, which was quite a shock to us, because we'd only seen her a few hours before that. she had been arranging a sister day, a special day for her two sisters. and they were going to have a weekend of activity. we'd seen her on the thursday, after work, in order to finalise those arrangements. so when we got that news, we just were dumbstruck.

we just couldn't understand what could have possibly happened. and obviously you went straight to the hospital. and how did you find her? we rushed to be by her side. she was unconscious, on a ventilator, having suffered catastrophic brain injury, as a result of coming off her balcony, the fourth—floor balcony of her flat in enfield. what specifically did the police say to you at that point? they then kept telling us that this was a murder investigation, which i found quite difficult to understand. there was my daughter, she was breathing. unconscious, but breathing. and i thought, "what do you mean a murder investigation? you know, she's alive." but unfortunately we were told a few hours later

that she was brain stem dead. but that a murder investigation was to follow. and how on earth do you, as her mum, take all that information in, that catastrophic information? it's very difficult to take it in and we've had three years of pain and suffering because of this investigation. we have found that we haven't been really given enough information. we know that her boyfriend at the time was the only other person with her. we know that witnesses spoke about an argument between them. a very violent argument. they'd heard them argue on previous occasions, but knew this was a different kind of argument. they had said that they felt that

jourdain was in fear of her life. and, very sadly, the consequences now are that she did lose her life that night. you want jourdain‘s then boyfriend to be prosecuted? yes. in connection with her death? yes. why? he was the only person present at the time. the investigation showed that there were threatening text messages tojourdain prior to him arriving at the flat. when he arrived, as i say, that violent argument ensued. she was heard on the balcony screaming, "somebody help me, please, somebody help me" shortly before the fall. now i can't understand why

there have been no prosecutions and no charges made on this case. why would you not? i just don't understand. well, the cps say that they reviewed all the evidence thoroughly. and, in fact, reviewed the evidence three times and took the unusual step of consulting other qcs and still came to the same conclusion that there wasn't sufficient evidence to take jourdain‘s boyfriend to a trial. and i quote, "no stone should be left unturned before making a final decision". that's the depth of the review. we strongly, strongly disagree with their review of the evidence. the problem that we see is that they haven't understood the language that was used between jourdain and her boyfriend at that time. in terms of the text messages? in terms of the text messages. could you give our audience an example of what you mean?

for example she stated that she was scared, that she felt that she needed to leave the flat. he turned around and said, "well, go on, then. but when i see you again, i'm going to drop you". and you take that to mean...? we understand that to mean that he will put her to the ground. that he could potentially kill her. whereas the cps, i think you understand that they took it to mean, "i will blank you, i won't speak to you." yes. but there is a crucial difference between if you blank someone, you say, "i'm going to drop you out". and that's not a mistake that you would make if you were using that language, because he would understand completely the difference between the two. and why would she be scared if he was dropping her out? that's not something to be scared about. jourdain was a very strong and independent person.

so it's definitely the latter. you know, if i'm going to drop you in the urban street dictionary it states that i'm going to put you to the ground, i'm going to punch you down, i'm going to kill you. i want to bring in your lawyer, harriet wistrich. atjourdain‘s inquest, the coroner said this: "i can't rule out foul play in this matter" and recorded an open verdict. then, in terms of what we definitely know about that night, the two were arguing, as tracey has said, witnesses had heard raised voices. some witnesses, the inquest heard, were concerned forjourdain‘s safety. the text between the two also showed there had been a row. the boyfriend said that earlier in the evening, during the row, jourdain had climbed on top of the balcony wall and he'd talked her down. he says then when he was out of the room, she climbed up again and either slipped or jumped. the boyfriend was questioned by the police.

there was a thorough review by the cps on whether to prosecute him. they decided there wasn't enough evidence to take him to trial. there wasn't enough evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction. how do you react to that decision? well, that was the first decision that was made. it was a decision which i believe tracey and the family met with the cps and argued about it and particularly around the interpretation of the street slang, which they felt the cps were just being closed off about the way in which that's understood. and they instituted what is now their right, a victim's right to review, which means that you can ask for another cps person to look at it. that took place. and again they confirmed the decision. however, you then have the opportunity of having an independent person look at it. that person took over a year.

we put in detailed representations to support the argument that there should be a prosecution. that went to a third senior qc who, aftera year, said, "actually, we think there is enough evidence here to charge with manslaughter. and that's a decision that, on the basis of the evidence we've seen, and i have to say we haven't seen it all, but on the basis of the evidence we have seen, is, in my view, the right decision. it's a decision that should be put before a jury and the jury should make an assessment based on all the evidence they hear, rather than on material that they look at and read. but despite that one person's conclusion, others were consulted, other qcs were consulted and two out of three decided there wasn't sufficient evidence to proceed. well, the third decision was made after a year's

review of the evidence. it was a very in—depth, detailed review, as we understand. and it was our expectation, if you go through a victim's right to review, the opportunity is to review all the evidence and to make an independent decision. that decision was made and we thought then that there was now going to be a prosecution and were shocked to then be told, "well, this has to be a final decision, that then goes back to the area prosecutor". and that decision... we received a long letter, which explained the reason why they weren't going to prosecute. it tells us nothing other than that they felt that the original decisions weren't wrong. we want to try and test that out in court. and that's why we're trying to bring a judicial review application. on what grounds? so, basically, we're exploring two possible grounds. one is that procedurally they shouldn't have gone back

on the victim's right of review and that the family had an expectation that now a decision had been made to prosecute, that this would take place. but, secondly, we're saying that it's an unreasonable decision. that on the basis of all the evidence, which we believe exists, that it passes the evidential threshold. and that is that there is more than evens chance of a conviction. and it should be something that's put to the jury. and a proper assessment can only be made when you hear witnesses and when you look... this family have a right to justice and it's a very important case, because if there is foul play, it's very much in the public interest that this case should be tried. tracey, i want to ask you a difficult question, which i know you will

have thought about. could jourdain have taken her own life that night? absolutely not. not in any way. you are emphatic about that? absolutely emphatic. jourdain was not the kind of person that would take her own life at all. she could get depressed, like the rest of us. we have our bad days. we can get down. but it wouldn't matter how upset she was about something. there's no way this would ever happen. she would never take her life in such a dramatic way. she was scared of heights. there was no way on this earth that she would ever climb up onto a balcony of her own accord. so from what you've also said, you also don't believe it was an accident? no. please define an accident for me. they're there because of the actions of someone else. if she had been putting up

decorations, or, you know, hanging out some washing and fallen that may be constituting an accident. her then boyfriend said that in a text the year before, she'd written that she wouldn't allow him to bring her to feeling, "this low, near suicide, again". he also told the police she had self—harmed on one occasion, when she was younger. the inquest, the overriding conclusion, was there was no evidence thatjordan was intending to take her own life. absolutely not, she had plans for the future, she had a job interview lined up. she knew exactly where few wa nted lined up. she knew exactly where few wanted to go. and she was taking steps to get there. the only person holding her back was her boyfriend. have you ever had a conversation with him since the death of your daughter? no, he has refused... not

once? not once. he hasn't come to us to offer any explanation of what happened that night. he had an opportunity at the inquest but refused to speak. and answer any questions. he had a note from his doctor effectively saying he couldn't give evidence at the inquest because he was ill... yes, but he had managed to get himself to the inquest, he had a new haircut which i'm sure he was able to tell the barber how to style his hair. he had new clothes. so, i'm sure he was able to manage to get to the shops and buy those clothes. why would you not be able to answer a few questions? so, from what you have to script it today this is at the heart of it for you — you need to ask him questions about that night and what happened to your daughter? yes, and when we asked him to come back into

the courtroom because he was dismissed earlier during the proceedings, we asked him to come backin proceedings, we asked him to come back in because as the family we felt it was our right to ask him questions and this was our opportunity to do so but he refused to come back into the courtroom. and again we can confirm no guiltjust because somebody does not answer questions? that is true but also no charge does not mean not guilty. questions? that is true but also no charge does not mean not guiltym the eyes of the law he is an innocent man. that's why we need to ta ke innocent man. that's why we need to take this to trial so that a judge andjury take this to trial so that a judge and jury have the opportunity to hear all the evidence and make a decision. we do not feel that it should be the cps making that decision, putting themselves in a position ofjudge and jury. and also i feel it is a financial decision they've made, they've stressed to us on many occasions that this is a difficult case and they are

concerned about the realistic prospect of conviction. well, i would like to ask you, victoria, could you put a price on human life? because i feel that's what the cps has done. they have effectively told us has done. they have effectively told us that our daughter is not worth the cost of a court case. what impact has the decision not to take the case further had on you and your family? it is devastating. we feel that we need to have justice for jourdain, or the opportunity for justice. and the only way we can do thatisif justice. and the only way we can do that is if we take this case to trial. for most parents watching now, it is unimaginable, what you have been to do, losing a child. now, it is unimaginable, what you have been to do, losing a childm is heartbreaking. every single day. you do not get over a pain like that, you just have to learn to live

with it but you do not get over it. tracey, thank you so much for talking to us, we appreciate your time and thank you as well. tracey and harriet wistrich. i have a long statement from jourdain‘s then boyfriend and i am going to read it to you. "in the immediate aftermath ofjourdain‘s death, i was arrested. i cooperated completely with the police investigation, "i cooperated completely with the police investigation, "answering all questions throughout a series of long interviews, "despite legal advice that i could exercise my right to silence. "i also cooperated with other police requests, such as providing "all forensic evidence and other records. "jourdain‘s death, what i saw and experienced that night "has left me traumatised and bereft beyond belief. "i have been diagnosed with ptsd and depression. "i say this not for sympathy, but in the hope that there is some "objective understanding

that my mental health fluctuates "and has been severely impaired. "on 23 august 2016, i attended the inquest intojourdain‘s death, "but was deemed medically unfit to give evidence. "i understand the need forjourdain‘s family to find "an explanation for her death which they understand. "i even recognise their need to apportion blame. "i understand that they now allege i have not spoken to them, "but they perhaps do not know that i was on bailfor one year, "with a condition that i could not speak to any ofjourdain‘s "thus i was unable to offer them any explanation directly. "i try to understand what it must feel like to be in their position. "i do not know how much of what i said to the police "in interview has been shared with the family in the immediate "aftermath of jourdain‘s death. "my sympathy goes out to her family and friends, "but i did not killjourdain, nor did i cause her "to fall to her death." and the family of crowdfunding in

order to help fund their legal battle. still to come... we'll talk to a 19—year—old who was refused a tattoo by a shop in bolton because he was hiv positive. and we'll also talk to the man who runs the tattoo shop too. it is just it isjust one it is just one track up for the prestigious ivor novello songwriting awards today — we will bring you the nominations. time for the latest news — here's annita. the bbc news headlines this morning. the financial conduct authority, has announced a crackdown on companies which offer credit with high rates of interest. the proposals include a cap on the amount that can be charged by rent—to—own companies — which can charge large sums for customers buying household goods — and restrictions

on door—step lenders. the us secretary of state, mike pompeo, says he had a good working dinner with a north korean diplomat ahead of a potential summit in singapore between the leaders of the two countries. the pair are trying to smooth the way for president trump to meet kimjong—un next month. general kim yong—chol is the most senior north korean to visit america in nearly 20 years. the hollywood film producer harvey weinstein has been told that he will face trial on charges of rape and a criminal sexual act. the offences relate to alleged attacks on two women in 2013 and 200a. harvey weinstein‘s lawyer has said he will deny all the charges against him. a statement from the manhattan district attorney's office said the case would be tried in the courtroom, not in the press. authorities in ukraine have been criticised for faking the murder of russian journalist and kremlin—critic arkady babchenko. the plot, which was designed to expose hitmen

paid by russian forces, only came to light when babchenko appeared at a news conference about his own death. an official from the organisation for security and co—operation in europe said ukraine was spreading false information, while the group reporters without borders said it was part of an information war. they don't fit in, don't want the hassle, and struggle with "complex issues" — they are just some of the excuses given for not appointing women to the boards of the uk's top 100 companies, according to a report on gender balance. the government—backed review called it shocking, while a minister branded the reasons "pitiful". it has recommended that at least a third of the 350 ftse company board members are women by 2020. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. thank you real comments onjermaine gresham this comments on rape. she said... mode rape isjust careless and insensitive. jermaine grandison

is that she was raped as a young woman and she also says that hurts tattooing the letter r on the cheek ofa tattooing the letter r on the cheek of a rapist would be better than a jail sentence. this one says... i was raped at 17 and it has had a long—lasting effect on me and on future relationships. i think germaine greer is wrong to suggest that a man should be tattooed, it suggests they can never change. counselling and being forced to face up counselling and being forced to face up to what they have done and what it has done to the victim is a better way of dealing with it. this one says. . . better way of dealing with it. this one says... i am the father of two girls, rapists and paedophiles will a lwa ys girls, rapists and paedophiles will always opt to do their time on wings away from usual convicts, because they will be targeted for their vile fa cts . they will be targeted for their vile facts. as the tatooine r on the cheek, it is not enough. they deserve to be branded r on the forehead as this is for ever. so

they can never forget the damage they can never forget the damage they have caused to their victim just this one says on twitter... has germaine greer lost her mind and it is like a form of medieval punishment and if you start down that road, where does it end? wife beaters, husband beaters? ithought we we re beaters, husband beaters? ithought we were moving towards rehabilitation and justice? we will talk more on that later in the programme. keep your comments coming in to ask —— to us. here's some sport now withjohn watson. frank lampard has been appointed manager of derby county. mo salah is expected to be fit for the world cup. the liverpool star damaged a shoulder in the champions league final against real madrid. but after a checkup from the egyptian team doctor, he will only be out for three weeks which means he should be

fit in time for egypt's second group game. after a stirring fightback britain's cameron norrie is scheduled to continue his match against lucas pouille at the french 0pen today. he took the third set before the umpire called off play due to bad light yesterday evening. and england will want to bounce back from what was a rather embarrassing defeat in the opening test with pakistan, when second test gets under way tomorrow. they need a win to salvage a draw in the series. but they might be without ben stokes, who has got a hamstring injury. surrey or sam curran has been put on the stand by mr. more sport coming up the stand by mr. more sport coming up at ten o'clock. the trial has started of a former southampton youth football coach who's accused of historical sexual abuse. bob higgins, who's 65, denies 50 charges of indecent assault relating to teenage boys between 1971 and 1996.

0ur reporterjim reed is here. yeah, so bob higgins ran the youth setup at southampton football club and he was also associated with peterborough united and with the maltese football association. charges of indecent assault against 24 charges of indecent assault against 2a teenagers in this trial. yesterday the prosecution opens its case and said the allegations were made after an appearance on this television programme by a front footballer, a man called andy woodward, who came forward to talk about abuse by a different coach, not mr higgins. but the court heard how after that the nspcc opener helpline for people who may have been affected and the prosecutor yesterday said the telephone started to ring and one name was mentioned over and over again and it is the name of bob higgins, this defendant. so, what is he alleged to have done? so, what is he alleged to have done? so, the prosecution describe mr higgins isa

so, the prosecution describe mr higgins is a talented coach who was idolised, it said, by his young players. it said some of them turned down opportunities at more prestigious clubs to work with him at southampton football club. it was during this period that it is alleged that he was responsible for what is describe described as a widespread campaign of sexual abuse against many of the young players in his charge. the prosecution said it took place in training, during massage sessions, in mr higgins' car and also when some boys stayed overnight in his home. and the court also heard about the power that mr higgins allegedly held over the boys? that's right. in the opening statement the prosecution said... the boys realised they needed to impress their coach to keep in his good books on and off the training pitch. the court then heard how it is alleged some boys were released from their contracts after falling out of favour with mr higgins, one trainee for example, allegedly said he would have been kept on if he had been, in the words of the

prosecution, more affectionate in his dealings with mr higgins. and other claims he was told that if he made allegations in public about mr higgins he would never play football again. mr higgins denies all the charges in this case. the trial continues, it is expected to last between six and eight weeks. coming up... germaine greer has said that most rape is just the lazy... this reaction coming up on twitter... later in the programme we speak to a who was raped and a campaigner against about germaine greer‘s comments. your views are welcome. next... the muslim council of britain is calling on the conservative party chairman to launch an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the party, to "ensure racists and bigots" have no place within it. the group, an umbrella organisation for 500 mosques and schools,

highlights in particular one tory mp, who represents harrow east, bob blackman. they say he has a "consistent record endorsing islamophobia", including retweeting anti— muslim posts from tommy robinson, a figurehead for the far right, and hosting an outspoken anti—muslim campaigner in parliament. in a letter to the chairman of the tory party, they also list nine separate examples of conservative representatives or candidates from last month — though the letter does acknowledge the party dealt with all those incidents once they came to light. we can speak now to the assistant general secretary of the muslim council of britain, miqdaad versi. they say they have suspended all those who have behaved

inappropriately and launched immediate investigations — isn't that enough? well, we have to look at the history of the conservative party. just a couple of years ago they had the mayoral campaign where zac goldsmith ran what has been described quite widely as a racist campaign against sadiq khan. 0ne described quite widely as a racist campaign against sadiq khan. one of the most senior conservatives in london talked about how this was not just dog whistle politics but far worse than that. that happened only a couple of years ago. right now we have bob blackman, a conservative member of parliament who has done a series of different things which are serious in and of themselves in the other councillors have had to resign on the basis of equivalent actions and yet he remains a member of parliament with nothing being said against him. well, the party tells us against him. well, the party tells us andi against him. well, the party tells us and i am sorry to repeat it... we have suspended all of those who have behaved inappropriately and launched immediate investigations — does that not suggest to you that bob blackman is being investigated ? not suggest to you that bob blackman is being investigated? well, the prime minister went and visited the

city in his constituency and campaigned with him only a few months ago. if it was the case that they are launching an investigation into himi they are launching an investigation into him i would have thought the prime minister would have avoided such a situation. from what i understand there is nothing to suggest that the city is being investigated, they have not said anything publicly about that.|j investigated, they have not said anything publicly about that. i have got a statement from the city and i am just there to open up my tablet, bear with me... he refutes your allegations of islamophobia. that is the strength of it and i will get the strength of it and i will get the exact words in a moment. and one of the tweets from him was a retweet of the tweets from him was a retweet ofa of the tweets from him was a retweet of a post by tommy robinson, a figurehead forfar of a post by tommy robinson, a figurehead for far right supporters — does that mean bob blackman is is a phobic? well, when told about this retweet he didn't remove it or he didn't seem to... he apologised afterwards. he didn't remove it until many weeks later. but he did remove it because he recognised it was a concern. the same with hosting

an and the muslim extremist within parliament, another challenge that he made. also saying that the allegations against the anti—and extremists weren't even important — this is serious. the anti-extremist you're talking that is a man called tap—in ghosh who spoke at an event in the westminster parliament in 0ctober in the westminster parliament in october and asked afterwards, bob blackman told the asian network this... extremism is never a cce pta ble this... extremism is never acceptable in any guise or form but the way you combat it is to take it on directly, adding... i represent a community where everyone is a monarch minority and we have to bring everyone together and that at times means having challenging discussions. that is absolutely right but he says these things but actually he did not follow on from that. that is the second example of something that he did and nothing was done against him. the third example is that he was involved in

sharing a story, an and the muslim story on facebook. and finallyjust yesterday, it was found out that he was ina yesterday, it was found out that he was in a number of facebook groups which are considered to be islamophobic double and there is a statement from that on bob blackman... i statement from that on bob blackman. .. i refute statement from that on bob blackman... i refute this allegation, i was added to facebook groups without my knowledge or permission and immediately removed myself from them. he was invited by an organisation, without his knowledge, he says. and he apologises for a post made in error, he says. that is the point, it is a series of individual cases which demonstrate that there is a concern. there needs to be something which is done. why does this merit an independent inquiry into alleged islamophobia in the conservative party? so, when you have a mayoral campaign which is one of the biggest campaigns run in the company, which is believed by conservative members of parliament, and conservative

people, when you have the most senior conservative muslim at least a couple of years ago talking about a couple of years ago talking about a simmering underbelly of islamophobia within the party, when we have an individual such as bob blackman not being dealt with after a series of allegations, when we also have nine separate incidents within a five—week period... also have nine separate incidents within a five-week period... all of which were dealt with. all of which we re which were dealt with. all of which were dealt with but all of which show that something is happening in the party, that this type of action needs to be taken. they are all independent things at this level so there needs to be an investigation. do you think the conservative party is islamophobic? i think what we need is an investigation. i would not throw around things like that without being very careful. what we need is an independent inquiry to look into these allegations properly and recognise, like we've seen in other situations, where when you look into something you will find things under the surface and that's something we need to look at.

figures from the london mayor's 0ffice show there were 1200 islamophobic hate crimes in 2016, the latest figures. and that they've been rising across the country for the last ten years. why do you think that is? i think there are a series of reasons why people have certain views about muslims, which in part comes from the way that certain sections of the media report on real incidents that are occurring within the world. and i think we have to recognise that we need to have leadership to say this is unacceptable, this is not something which should continue just recently we've had a terrorist attack outside a mosque where a muslim was killed, which was related to islamophobia. these are serious incidents and this is something which needs to be dealt with carefully and seriously because bigotry is not acceptable in politics nor in wider society. thank you very much. miqdaad versi, of the muslim council of britain. we will bring you the weather forecast and a

news update,, nudge if but first... stormzy, ed sheeran, sampha and rag n bone man — all are up for the prestigious ivor novello songwriting awards today. rapper dave is also nominated for his track question time, which pays tribute to the victims of the grenfell tower fire. chi chi izundu's here to run through the nominations. who else is up for something? like you said, ed sheeran, stormzy and everything and everything, which is a great band! starting with ed sheeran, who is up for apple music for most performed work. that recognises the most broadcast, the most online plays and general performance of a track in the uk in 2017. he has obviously been nominated for castle 0n 2017. he has obviously been nominated for castle on the hill, the first single off his album and also shake your view, a huge single

which was used in a number of adverts. also nominated for his track human has been rag n bone man and that track was also used in a lot of films and tv and also won him a brit award. and also stormzy is also up for... we need to hear the music! sorry! no, it's all right! stormzy is up for best album as well but he is also up for don't cry for me which is in the best contemporary song category. he did that song with someone song category. he did that song with someone who you might know as grey worm from game of thrones. and everything everything, as we said, up everything everything, as we said, upfora number of everything everything, as we said, up for a number of nominations including best album. and dave has been nominated from question time which was about grenfell tower tragedy. this is everything and

everything, sorry we got it in a bit late but we got it in the end! how big a deal is this? it is a big deal because it recognises songwriting and composers and it is all peer—to—peerjudging. it and composers and it is all peer—to—peer judging. it is and composers and it is all peer—to—peerjudging. it is more of a big deal because people think you'rejudged on your a big deal because people think you're judged on your songwriting ability, notjust you're judged on your songwriting ability, not just about the performance or who is buying your music, it's about your ability to put pen to paper as a true artist. and i don't think you've mentioned gei garvey and elbow, we really need to be mentioning gei garvey! chuck them in! and this one who wrote like the piano, which was about his mother, as well. so, they are a big deal and comes out top! we will find out tomorrow morning but if you are on social media we will find out tonight because the awards are in a

big fancy hotel in london tonight. quite big changes at radio 1? indeed! nick grimshaw has announced after six years, he is timed! he made the announcement this morning on his breakfast show!” made the announcement this morning on his breakfast show! i have loved doing the breakfast show but i am not going to do it any more. it is one of those jobs that it is not a forever job, one of those jobs that it is not a foreverjob, you never started thinking, i will do this till i'm 90!i thinking, i will do this till i'm 90! i thought i'd do it for two years, not six years! we have had messages this week from people who have said that when we started doing the breakfast show they were starting their gcses and now they've graduated uni! enough is enough! i'm not like leaving radio 1, still going to be at radio 1, hopefully a massive part of the radio! family still! so, that was nick grimshaw announcing that officially, after six years waking up for the brea kfast six years waking up for the breakfast show, he is now going to give it up! he is staying with the

network, he's swapping with greg james, who currently does the drivetime slot. they are swapping. it will not be a shock to greg james because actually he used to do the early breakfast, the show which came on before nick grimshaw, back in the day when he first started out in his career. so now he's going to be doing brexit and nick grimshaw is going to be doing the drivetime show. greg has said that he is over the moon to be taking over that slot, because it is the most famous role in radio in this country, possibly the world. possibly the ! possibly the world! i will let you get away with that one! i have to work to greg james but he did not come on the programme today.|j work to greg james but he did not come on the programme today. i think he is still in bed because he has not quite done the swap yet! anyway, not quite done the swap yet! anyway, no reply yet! i would be holding my breath! i have got some more

comments from you reacting to what germaine greer has said about rape. she has talked about potentially rapists not getting jail sentences but they should be branded on their face with the letter r. she has also suggested that not all rates are violent, some are as she puts it just insensitive, just lazy, just careless. this e—mail from just insensitive, just lazy, just careless. this e—mailfrom one woman who says... i am outraged by the proposition that rapists should be branded with letters on their face. what if they are innocent and have been wrongly convicted? how would you propose removing the branding in these cases, where the convictions are overturned? these cases, where the convictions are overturned ? my these cases, where the convictions are overturned? my partner is currently serving an 11 year prison term for raping a woman he hardly knew. the only evidence was testa m e nt by knew. the only evidence was testament by the alleged victim and her so—called best friend. there was no other evidence. the alleged victim made the allegation as her mother is best friends with my partner's ex—wife, it was purely an

act of revenge. the alleged victim has profited and received £15,000 in compensation. we are currently waiting for my partner's appeal against his conviction. rather than discussing ridiculous topics such as, should branding and's face the appropriate for a rapist, maybe consider discussing topics such as the amount of innocent men now sat in jail? the amount of innocent men now sat injail? a the amount of innocent men now sat in jail? a woman's testimony in a rape case is the only evidence needed to convicted someone. these are dangerous times and virtually anyone can now make an allegation against someone regarding a sexual crime and secure a conviction. this tweet from rachel... germaine greer strikes me as someone trying to be controversial for the sake of it. this one... i sympathise with the victims of sexual violence but i was alarmed to hear germaine greer talking about branding, a very dangerous idea. it may prove a deterrent but it also runs the risk of rape turning into rape murders as

offenders would go to greater extremes offenders would go to greater extre m es to offenders would go to greater extremes to avoid being identified. we will talk more about it with a victim of rape in the next hour of the programme. thursday's whether, here is tomasz schafernaker, good morning. good morning. if you have been out already you will notice how wet the air is. we had a thick fog this morning and now there is enough moisture in the atmosphere to set off some big downpours. there will bea off some big downpours. there will be a risk of flash flooding locally, not everywhere. mainly across parts of southern and central britain as well as wales in the afternoon. so i think there is a chance of some thunder and lightning as well but at the same time across the north, the weather will be a lot better. there will be some sunshine around. the heavy showers may continue for a time this evening. you can see it on the forecast map in parts of wales,

a really muggy night once again. a little bit more constable in the north. tomorrow, further downpours are in the forecast but this time in different places. not as many in the south, they're mostly across western parts of scotland and northern ireland. so, the risk is transferring a little bit further north tomorrow as far as those downpours are concerned. that was quick! thank you. hello. it's thursday. it's ten o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. the mum who's launching a legal battle to try to force the crown prosecution service to re—investigate her daughter's death. 22—year—old jourdain john—ba ptiste fell from her fourth floor balcony three years ago. her boyfriend, the other person in the flat at the time, tells us he didn't kill her or cause her to fall. tracey john—ba ptiste says she won't give up. she was heard, on the balcony, screaming, "somebody help me, please, somebody help me" shortly

before the fall. now i can't understand why there have been no prosecutions and no charges made on this case. the financial regulator is considering capping the prices charged by rent to own lenders, after finding charged by rent to own lenders, afterfinding some items charged by rent to own lenders, after finding some items ended charged by rent to own lenders, afterfinding some items ended up costing more than doubled the cost price. in a moment we will hear from someone price. in a moment we will hear from someone who got no help when she got into severe debt. we'll talk to a 19—year—old who was refused a tattoo by a shop in bolton because he was hiv positive. we're also joined by the man who runs the tattoo shop. here's annita in the bbc newsroom

with a summary of today's news. the financial conduct authority has announced a crackdown on companies which offer credit with high rates of interest. the proposals include a cap on the amount that can be charged by rent—to—own companies — which can charge large sums for customers buying household goods — and restrictions on door—step lenders. the us secretary of state, mike pompeo, says he had a good working dinner with a north korean diplomat, ahead of a potential summit in singapore between the leaders of the two countries. the pair are trying to smooth the way for president trump to meet kim jong—un next month. general kim yong—chol is the most senior north korean to visit america in nearly 20 years. the hollywood film producer harvey weinstein, has been told that he will face trial on charges of rape and a criminal sexual act. the offences relate to alleged attacks on two women in 2013 and 200a. harvey weinstein's lawyer has said he will deny all the charges against him.

a statement from the manhattan district attorney's office said the case would be tried in the courtroom, not in the media. authorities in ukraine have been criticised for faking the murder of russian journalist and kremlin critic arkady babchenko. the plot, which was designed to expose hitmen paid by russian forces, only came to light when babchenko appeared at a news conference about his own death. an official from the organisation for security and co—operation in europe said ukraine was spreading false information, while the group reporters without borders said it was part of an information war. they don't fit in, don't want the hassle, and struggle with complex issues. they are just some of the excuses given for not appointing women to the boards of the uk's top 100 companies, according to a report on gender balance. the government—backed review called it shocking, while a minister branded the reasons pitiful. it has recommended that at least a third of the 350 ftse company board members are women by 2020. american reality tv star kim kardashian west has met president trump to appeal for clemency for a 63—year—old woman serving a life

sentence for a first time, non—violent drug offence. donald trump posted a picture with the reality tv star inside the oval office saying they'd talked about prison reform and sentencing. ultimately it will be the president who decides if alicejohnson should be granted a pardon. nick grimshaw has announced he will step down from hosting the bbc radio1 breakfast show in september. grimshaw has presented the breakfast show since 2012 and will now launch a new drivetime show on the station. greg james, who currently hosts the 4—7 slot on the station was announced as the new breakfast host live on this morning's show after nick grimshaw explained his reasons for leaving. i'm really tired. like, so tired. like, you've no idea. come september, i will have been doing it for six years. and i've decided that

it's time for a change. it's going to be time for a new show. and, most importantly, it's going to be time for a new wake—up time. preferably about 11:30am. 11:30, a little dog walk, maybe a bit of lunch. i've loved doing the breakfast show, but i'm not going to do it any more. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. more at 10.30. thank you. helen says on the subject of rape and what germaine greer has said about it, all of her comments are slap in the face to victims and survivors. there is no one way to do this surviving staff and just because germaine greer managed to do it one way doesn't mean that anyone else can and should. their ignorance regarding trauma related mental health issues such as ptsd is astonishing, as is her proposal regarding sentences for convicted rapists. it is all astonishing, to be honest, and throws all of us under a bus. for a be honest, and throws all of us undera bus. fora woman be honest, and throws all of us under a bus. for a woman who claims to bea under a bus. for a woman who claims to be a feminist, this is as

anti—woman as it can get. very strong from helen. thank you. if you are getting in touch with us, you are getting in touch with us, you are very welcome. are getting in touch with us, you are very welcome. you can email us or use twitter, facebook or whatsapp. now the latest sport with john. good morning. 21 years as a player, frank lampard is taking his first step into management with championship side derby county. this is how they broke the news in this rather smart looking video. it was all very dramatic. the former england and chelsea midfielder joining on a three—year deal. the championship side finished sixth this season, losing in the play—offs to fulham, and as our reporter simon stone explains, he will be expected to lead the team to the premier league. derby have had high standards, high goals over the last couple of years and they have not quite got there. they got beaten in the play—offs again. this season. the chairman mel morris is a very ambitious man and

he wanted someone who is going to cross the great divide and get the clu b cross the great divide and get the club into the premier league. frank lampard club into the premier league. frank lampa rd has club into the premier league. frank lampard has signed a three—year contract. mel morris said that he is a winner and contract. mel morris said that he is a winnerand a contract. mel morris said that he is a winner and a leader who has the character and charisma to be a fantastic manager for us, and character and charisma to be a fantastic managerfor us, and frank lampard fantastic managerfor us, and frank lampa rd himself has fantastic managerfor us, and frank lampard himself has said it won't be easy but i am really looking forward to the challenge. the big question is can someone who has really only just finished their playing career, a stellar playing career, when he won a stellar playing career, when he wo n every a stellar playing career, when he won every major on in the game, can he be an effective manager outside the top flight in england? simon is stone speaking earlier and we should hear from stone speaking earlier and we should hearfrom frank stone speaking earlier and we should hear from frank lampard stone speaking earlier and we should hearfrom frank lampard later. you couldn't help but feel sorry for liverpool's mo salah when you saw him going off the field in the champions league final with a shoulder injury.

he was in tears, knowing full well that it could mean the end not just for liverpool but his own world cup hopes. the good news from the egyptian fa is he should be fit for the tournament in russia. they say that his rehabilitation will take no longer than three weeks, which means he would be fit for their second group game at least. day five of the french open is just getting under way and britain's cameron norrie will be on court later as he tried to continue his second round recovery. as the sun began to set at roland garros, norrie fought his way back from two sets down against home favourite lucas pouille to take the third set before the umpire called off play because of bad light. fellow brits heather watson and kyle edmund are playing today. and forget the tennis, the toughest thing alexander zverev had to tackle at the french open yesterday was a thick yorkshire accent. this was the exchange between the player and a journalist in his post

match press conference. where are you from, buddy? do you want to guess? yorkshire in england. 0k, nice! if they ever make a tournament there, i'm definitely coming just cos of that accent. love it! i didn't understand a word you were saying, but that was... it's not important! er, could roland garros be a turning point for you in having success in a grand slam? sure, why not? just cos you said it so nicely, i'm going to believe that now! that was jonathan penfield from that wasjonathan penfield from live sports fm, who has become a bit of a sensation on social media after that exchange. there is to be a crackdown on high interest lending and other types of high—cost credit such as rent—to—own stores, doorstep lending and catalogue shopping. the watchdog, the financial conduct authority, announced this morning that the rent—to—own sector will be facing a cap on the interest it can charge people on rent—to—own goods.

the authority spent nearly two years investigating doorstep lenders and firms that offer loans to buy furnishings and electrical goods at very, very high interest rates and the cap is expected in april next year. mps have been pushing for a cap on interest rates amid concerns that they're leading vulnerable people into deeper debt. you might remember the former labour leader ed miliband made an exclusive film on this issue for a two years ago. our business reporter rob young is here again. go through the details for us. rent

to own company is one where you go to own company is one where you go to it you say you want to buy washing machine but you don't have the funds to pay for it and you can't get a mainstream loan from the bank to buy it, you rent it for a number of years and you pay a weekly or monthly fee to the company, and at the end of the term, you own it. but the problem which the watchdog, the financial conduct authority, is outlining this morning, is that you often pay considerably more for that particular item. they raised the case of a cooker that you could buy for £300 on the high street if you had the cash, but through a rent to own company in some cases it was £1500 paid over three years. you could have bought several cookers for that. they have said in principle they want to introduce a cap next year but they haven't said what level it would be set at. we will be keen to learn whether they think it is £600 or £900 that is a reasonable price for the £300

cooker. and they have said in principle they would like a cap on charges on unauthorised overdrafts, and loans. when it comes to an unauthorised overdraft, this is when you draw money out of your current account when you have not agreed in advance with your bank. in 2016, we spent £2.5 billion on these overdraft charges, both authorised and unauthorised. the financial conduct authority thinks that is too much, and they have said that banks must alert us, give us a text message, the banking and alert, before we go into one of these unauthorised overdrafts which could cost us money because there is often a daily charge to be paid. and the banks must be more transparent about what exactly the fees would be if we do go over the limit. but do they wa nt to do go over the limit. but do they want to bring in a cap eventually? they think more radical action will be needed. one of the things they

will discuss over the next year or so will discuss over the next year or so is whether there should be a cap on the amount that we could be charged and whether there should be a difference in the charges between authorised overdrafts and ones that are not authorised, which some campaigners have been calling for, because some debt charities have said that the financial conduct authority should have said they would put the cap in place. they say there are various legal processes they need to go through but they could be heading in that direction. thank you. we can speak now to jamie whyte, research director for the institute for economic affairs. that is a think tank that promotes free markets. in chelmsford we have paula goddard, a debt councillorfrom charity christians against poverty. and via skype, lynnjames who runs the mrs mummypenny personal finance website and has faced her own difficulties with debt. paula, tell us about your experience of personal debt and getting deeper into it. yes, 0k.

of personal debt and getting deeper into it. yes, ok. i came into debt situation when both my husband and myself were made redundant. we found ourselves on a very myself were made redundant. we found ourselves on a very low income with only one of us able to claim benefits as a couple. we used catalogues and doorstep lenders and we got a credit card to deal with day—to—day living. we were faced with affection and we needed to get bedroom furniture for our children. —— we were faced with eviction. we use the catalogue for that. it became unbearable. where you initially grateful for the access to that credit? yes, i think! initially grateful for the access to that credit? yes, i think i was desperate for some kind of financial support. and that was our only option. we had got bad credit and that was our only option. and did it get worse from there? yes, it did. we just plummeted into

get worse from there? yes, it did. wejust plummeted into more and more debt because we couldn't manage the repayments. we would find we would make a repayments. we would find we would makea minimum repayments. we would find we would make a minimum payment of £50 a month, say, and one company was adding £12 in credit fees and interest which was totalling over £60, so we always had a growing balance. we were never actually clearing anything. did you know how high the interest rates charges were when you started taking out the credit? no. i think when you started taking out the credit? no. ithink that when you started taking out the credit? no. i think that is accessing everything online. you don't have to speak to everyone and you don't have to listen to anyone telling you the terms and conditions, you just scroll down and click i agree because that is how you get access to it. i hadn't read the terms and conditions and i lacked financial education in that sense. but you know they are not going to do it for free. sense. but you know they are not going to do it forfree. we sense. but you know they are not going to do it for free. we all know that and we can agree on that. totally. yes, totally. let me bring

in lynn. you run a personalfinance website and you have had issues with debt. tell us about that. three years ago i used to work in the corporate world and i actually quit to set up miss mummypenny, which brought quite a few challenges with it. when you are self—employed you don't in very much money to start off with, which was the beginning of the troubles. and there was also an element of keeping up with the joneses, if i am really honest. i was continuing to spend money as if i still had my corporate job. i can completely reflect back on that now and recognise it was not the right thing to do, but when you are in the moment, and you want to take your children on holiday, i did it. were you aware of the high interest rates charges? i am very fortunate that i

have a pretty good credit rating, so what i did was all of my debt was on interest—free credit cards and i had a massive panic. last aprili interest—free credit cards and i had a massive panic. last april i took my head out of the sand and i added it allup and my head out of the sand and i added it all up and there was £16,000. i we nt it all up and there was £16,000. i went through a refinancing process where i tried to put as much of it onto an interest—free consumer credit card that i could, but there was a huge fee for that benefit. i think i paid £400 to transfer the money. then i had a balance on a credit card which was charging 20% apr. i came up with a plan of how to pay back that debt as quickly as possible and to repay the highest interest debt first. i am going to ask you both what you think about the report today but let me ask jamie first of all. you come from an

organisation that promotes free markets. what do you think about this intervention in the access to high cost credit market?|j this intervention in the access to high cost credit market? i am opposed to it because price caps always reduce the supply of something. i will explain later if i get the chance by interest rates are very high on these kinds of products. it is not that the lenders are making huge profits actually. there are good reasons why they are that high. if you say they can't be that high. if you say they can't be that high, then they will not be offered. and then the opportunities to use them usefully... and oddly enough we have heard two examples are perfectly decent uses of these products. those opportunities will disappear and consumers will be worse off. their choices will be reduced. their choices will be reduced. their choices will be reduced but they will not necessarily be worse off because people could use credit unions, for example. typically people use what looks like an expensive credit card or form of lending because they

can't get the better, cheaper deal. not necessarily. that may be true but they may not know about other areas of credit. well, this idea that if i don't know all the options i have got on some regulator thinks one of the options is not very good and he should take it away, that is crazy. you could apply that rule everywhere. with cars, clothing, everywhere, so why pick this out in particular? do you accept that it can cost you more to go into an unauthorised overdraft scenario, which is more than you are borrowing? £50 when you have only taken at £25. yes, because it is a fee for going over. it is the same if you have arranged it. sometimes there is a usage fee of an

overdraft. 0n there is a usage fee of an overdraft. on my bank account there isa overdraft. on my bank account there is a usage fee and i know what it is andl is a usage fee and i know what it is and i take it into account when i decide to go overdrawn. there is a strange idea that is pervading this entire discussion that people using these products are not adults making decisions. they are somehow helpless. i have just decisions. they are somehow helpless. i havejust seen lynn's face in horror as you said that. do talk to jamie. there is a huge lack of awareness and education out there. people just don't understand. people don't know about credit unions, or other ways to get money. they think their only option if they haveit they think their only option if they have it terrible credit rating is to go to one of these stores that you are talking about. but there are other options. and there are so many people, newspapers and media and people, newspapers and media and people like yourself that people like me trying to spread this education and information to people,

and all this help out there, and i really don't want people to turn to firms that are charging 500% apr. really don't want people to turn to firms that are charging 500% aprm course there is a wide range of options that it would be nice if people knew what they are but sometimes finding that out is expensive, which is a consideration. i think it is worth explaining why you get 500% apr. can you do it briefly? i will try! the amounts are very small, very often. if it costs the provider £30 to do the deal, to access you , the provider £30 to do the deal, to access you, get the contract done, give you the money, and then get it back, suppose it is £30. let's use a payday loan. and you have borrowed £300 per two weeks. you have got £30, if you did it every two weeks for a year £30, if you did it every two weeks fora yearand £30, if you did it every two weeks for a year and you turn that into an interest rate, that is 26 times 30, about 750, so as an interest rate on 300, you are already over 200% and

the provider has not made a penny. it sounds like a huge interest rate but it is actually a very small fee for dealing with the whole thing. and this is another important point. the people taking out these loans are high—risk borrowers in financial trouble. often. there is a high chance they will not repay the loan, so chance they will not repay the loan, so there a high default rates on these loans, meaning they don't re cover a these loans, meaning they don't recover a lot these loans, meaning they don't re cover a lot of these loans, meaning they don't recover a lot of money they lend out, so to make up for that they need to charge high interest rates. thank you all very much and we will see what happens with the consultation with the financial conduct authority on this. thank you for coming on the programme. jourdain john—baptiste died after falling from her fourth floor balcony in enfield in north london.the in north london. the other person in herflat at the time was her boyfriend.

an argument had broken out between the couple and witnesses heard her shout "somebody help me" shortly before she fell. an inquest into her death concluded the 22—year—old died from multiple injuries sustained in the fall, and the coroner said foul play could not be ruled out. in a statement to this programme, her boyfriend says this: "my sympathy goes out tojourdain's family and friends, but i did not killjourdain, nor did i cause her to fall to her death." after considering all the evidence and reviewing the case three times, the cps said there wasn't enough evidence to take the case to trial. now in an exclusive interview, jourdain john—baptiste's mother tracey has told this programme why she's launching a judicial review to try and overturn that decision. here mrs john—baptiste describes how she's tried to cope with her daughter's death. it's very difficult to take it in. we've had three years of pain and suffering because of this investigation. we have found that we haven't been really given enough information.

we know that her boyfriend at the time was the only other person with her. we know that witnesses spoke about an argument between them. a very violent argument. they'd heard them argue on previous occasions, but knew this was a different kind of argument. they had said that they felt that jourdain was in fear of her life. and, very sadly, the consequences now are that she did lose her life that night. you want jourdain's then boyfriend to be prosecuted? yes. in connection with her death? yes. why? he was the only person present at the time. the investigation showed that there were threatening text messages tojourdain prior to him arriving at the flat.

when he arrived, as i say, that violent argument ensued. she was heard on the balcony screaming, "somebody help me, please, somebody help me" shortly before the fall. now i can't understand why there have been no prosecutions and no charges made on this case. why would you not? i just don't understand. well, the cps say that they reviewed all the evidence thoroughly. and, in fact, reviewed the evidence three times and took the unusual step of consulting other qcs and still came to the same conclusion that there wasn't sufficient evidence to take jourdain's boyfriend to a trial. and i quote, "no stone

should be left unturned before making a final decision". that's the depth of the review. we strongly, strongly disagree with their review of the evidence. the problem that we see is that they haven't understood the language that was used between jourdain and her boyfriend at that time. in terms of the text messages? in terms of the text messages. tracey, i want to ask you a difficult question, which i know you will have thought about. could jourdain have taken her own life that night? absolutely not. not in any way. you are emphatic about that? absolutely emphatic. jourdain was not the kind of person that would take her own life at all. she could get depressed, like the rest of us. we have our bad days. we can get down.

but it wouldn't matter how upset she was about something, there's no way this would ever happen. she would never take her life in such a dramatic way. she was scared of heights. there was no way on this earth that she would ever climb up onto a balcony of her own accord. have you ever had a conversation with him since the death of your daughter? no. he has refused. not once? not once. he hasn't come to us to offer any explanation of what happened that night. he had an opportunity, at the inquest, but refused to speak. and answer any questions. he had a note from his doctor, effectively, saying he couldn't give evidence at the inquest because he was ill. yes. but he had managed to get himself to the inquest. from what you have described today, this

is really at the heart of it for you, you need to ask him questions about that night and what happened to your daughter? yes. and when we asked him to come back in to the court room, as he was dismissed earlier, during the proceedings, we asked him to come back in, as it's our family... we felt it was our right to ask him questions and this was our opportunity to do so, but he refused to come back into the courtroom. and, again, though, we can confer no guilt just because somebody doesn't answer questions. that's true. but also no charge does not mean not guilty. in the eyes of the law, he's an innocent man. well, that's why we need to take this to trial, and, also, i feel it's a financial decision they've made. they've stressed to us, on many occasions, that this is a difficult case. and they are concerned about the realistic prospect of a conviction. well, i would like to ask you, victoria, could you put a price on a human life? because i feel that's what the cps has done.

they are effectively telling us that our daughter is not worth the cost of a court case. tracey john—ba ptiste. we have a statement here from jourdain's then boyfriend: "in the immediate aftermath ofjourdain's death i was arrested. i cooperated completely with the police investigation, answering all questions throughout a series of long interviews, despite legal advice that i could exercise my right to silence. i also cooperated with other police requests, such as providing all forensic evidence and other records. jourdain's death, what i saw and experienced that night, has left me traumatised and bereft beyond belief. i have been diagnosed with ptsd and depression. i say this not for sympathy, but in the hope that there is some objective understanding that my mental health fluctuates and has been severely impaired. in august 2016, i attended the inquest intojourdain's death,

but was deemed medically unfit to give evidence. i understand the need forjourdain's family to find an explanation for her death which they understand. i even recognise their need to apportion blame. i understand that they now allege i have not spoken to them, but they perhaps do not know that i was on bailfor one year with a condition that i could not speak to any ofjourdain's friends orfamily. thus i was unable to offer them any explanation directly. i try to understand what it must feel like to be in their position. i do not know how much of what i said to the police in interview has been shared with the family in the immediate aftermath of jourdain's death. my sympathy goes out to her family and friends, but i did not killjourdain, nor did i cause her to fall to her death." i'm going to bring you this breaking news, to do with an islamic state

supporter, who has admitted encouraging terrorism by using a telegram messaging group to call for an attack on prince george. this is just coming to us now, that this islamic state supporter has admitted encouraging terrorism by using a telegram messaging group to call for an attack on prince george. following a change of plea halfway through his trial at woolwich crown court, he was accused of sharing the school address of prince george. time for the latest news. the financial conduct authority, has announced a crackdown on companies which offer credit with high rates of interest. the proposals include a cap on the amount that can be charged by rent—to—own companies — which can charge large sums for customers buying household goods — and restrictions on door—step lenders. the us secretary of state, mike pompeo, says he had a good working dinner with a north korean diplomat,

ahead of a potential summit in singapore between the leaders of the two countries. the pair are trying to smooth the way for president trump to meet kimjong—un next month. general kim yong—chol is the most senior north korean to visit america in nearly 20 years. harvey weinstein has been told that he will face trial on charges of rape and a criminal sexual act. the offences relate to alleged attacks on two women in 2013 and 2004. harvey weinstein's lawyer has said he will deny all the charges against him. a statement from the manhattan district attorney's office said the case would be tried in the courtroom, not in the press. they don't fit in, don't want the hassle, and struggle with "complex issues" — they are just some of the excuses given for not appointing women to the boards of the uk's top 100 companies, according to a report on gender balance. the government—backed review called it shocking, while a minister branded the reasons "pitiful". it has recommended that at least a third of the 350 ftse company board members are women by 2020.

that's a summary of the latest bbc news. here's some sport now withjohn watson. frank lampard has become the new manager of derby county. the announcement came and nine clock this morning. this will be his first job as a manager. mo salah is expected to be fit for the world cup. the liverpool star damaged his shoulder in the champions league final. after a checkup for the —— from the egyptian team doctor it is said that he will only be out for three weeks show he should be fit for the second group game. cameron norrie is set to continue his match against lucas pouille at the french open today. cameron norrie came back from two sets down to take the third set before they went off for bad light yesterday evening. and england say ben stokes will have a scan on his injured hamstring this afternoon. they're still hopeful

that he will be able to play some pa rt that he will be able to play some part in the game which starts tomorrow, the second test against pakistan, at headingley. looking to towns back doubles from the defeat in the opening test. sam curran has been called up as a back—up bowler. that is the sport for now. one of britain's biggest tattoo studios is sticking by its decision to refuse to tattoo a young gay man because he has hiv. george westwood is a 19—year—old student at birmingham uni and went to vida loca in bolton to get a tattoo. he told the business about his illness as a courtesy, at which point he was refused service. it is illegal to discriminate against anyone based on their hiv status under the equality act although it's not thought any cases relating to tattoo shops have ever reached court. we can now speak to george westwood and daniel watson, who runs vida loca, the tattoo shop in question and deborah gold, chief executive of the national aids trust.

george, why did you want the tattoo? and what was your reaction when you we re and what was your reaction when you were refused the tattoo?” and what was your reaction when you were refused the tattoo? i was left feeling quite confused and upset, learning that it is illegal to discrimination against someone with hiv and knowing that there is no risk of transmission through tattooing i was left feeling quite confused and a bit let down and taken back by the situation. daniel pudil explain to george why you refused to give him a tattoo. basically the reason he was refused is because he wasn't covered by our insurance. after speaking to the insurers we was told that there is not a zero presented chance, there isa not a zero presented chance, there is a very, very minimal chance that it could be contracted but the insurance said that we were not insured anyway and obviously as a customer we have to look after him

to make sure he is covered by our insurance so we could not do the tattoo. to you accept that, george? my tattoo. to you accept that, george? my only downfall with that argument is that under the equality act of 2010 to discrimination against someone 2010 to discrimination against someone with hiv is illegal, therefore how can an insurance company, which must be following the law, if they are not willing to cover someone due to law, if they are not willing to cover someone due to their hiv status, isn't the insurance company breaking the law as well as the tattoo studio? is that a fair point, daniel? not really, no. i cannot do it if he is not covered. i am not an insurer, myjob as the studio owner is to look after their health and safety of my staff and of the customer and of myself. could it be just the insurance company got it wrong and, you know, doesn't know the equality act? possibly. but then

thatis the equality act? possibly. but then that is the professional opinion, my personal opinion is different, because personally even if i was in short i would not want to do it because there is still the risk, why ta ke because there is still the risk, why take the chance of the risk of spreading the virus? shouldn't we as a society be trying to reduce the risk of spreading the virus further? hurriedly we have got medication thatis hurriedly we have got medication that is reducing the risk and we have got proceedings... if you are clea n have got proceedings... if you are clean and hygienic there is no risk? of course there is always a risk, no matter where you go, in a hospital, super—clean, there is always a risk. it is impossible to 100% eradicate the risk. over 14 years i have caught myself to or three times with the needle. the chance might be very, very slim but still... we can bring in the chief executive of the national aids trust, is there a risk? there is no risk, there has never been a case of hiv being passed on through a tattoo parlour.

94% of people who know they have hiv can't pass it on anyway because they are suppressed and they have an undetectable one which cannot be passed on. so any risk would be from people who do not know they have hiv, which is why all tattoo pa rlou rs have hiv, which is why all tattoo pa rlours have universal hiv, which is why all tattoo parlours have universal precautions and if this tattoo parlour has good hygiene practices, they're using gloves and single use niggles and relies on their equipment, then there is no risk. and so i think this comes down to a lack of information and stigma and discrimination. we do hear of these cases every so discrimination. we do hear of these cases every so often from tattoo pa rlou rs cases every so often from tattoo parlours but usually when people find out the information they realised and they are happy to go ahead and! realised and they are happy to go ahead and i hope that it can happen in this case. go on, daniel? what she's saying is not true. there is always going to be a risk. how do i know that he has taken his medication? for a couple of days he might have missed his medication. may be has got it mixed up and he has not taken it. there is always

going to be a risk. myjob as the studio owner is to eradicate the risk. the first thing on the risk assessment is, how do i eradicate the risk, by not doing a tattoo. my problem is that the i completely agree there is a risk with tatooine somebody with hiv but there is a risk with tattooing anyone, 12% of the people who have hiv in the country are undiagnosed. —— tattooing. i had no question asked to me on paying my deposit if i had any blood—borne pathogen of any sort including hiv. does that mean that before tattooing we should be blood testing all customers? there's people in the uk living with hiv who do not realise they have it but they're well, to get tattoos? no, they're well, to get tattoos? no, the point is that i have to try and do my bestjob to reduce risk as much as i can. wunsch i have been told that this man is hiv the best way to reduce the risk is not to do the tattoo. if they sign it to say,

yes, i have hiv, they will not be able to get the procedure done because they are not insured. if you came into actually get the tattoo done, when you filled in the form, you would have had to state that you had hiv. but when you booked in you left your deposit and we gave you that deposit back because it wasn't your fault. george, are you going to ta ke your fault. george, are you going to take this further? i've decided not to ta ke take this further? i've decided not to take legal action, i don't want to take legal action, i don't want to ruin someone's tattoo parlour or anything ijust to ruin someone's tattoo parlour or anything i just want to raise awareness about what hiv is, an undetectable and untra nsmissible awareness about what hiv is, an undetectable and untransmissible and i think they need to drop the stigma around hiv. thank you both. and thanks two double as well. we can bring you a further update on a story we have been following on the programme for some time. lets get you an update

on a story we first brought you several years ago. in 2014 a british father—of—three was kidnapped by the ethiopian authorities and put on death row — where he's been ever since. over the weekend it was announced that, after four years, and we can speak to yemi hailemariam again now. on tuesday you said you had not spoken to andy for 40 years, has that changed ? had not spoken to andy for 40 years, has that changed? it has changed, i spoke to him on tuesday right after your programme, about four or five later and he was actually released. and i spoke to him then. and the. . . ? and i spoke to him then. and the. . . ? and yeah, it was... it was emotionally overwhelming so most of iti emotionally overwhelming so most of it i cried! and wejust emotionally overwhelming so most of it i cried! and we just briefly talked because there were quite a few people were at his dad'shouse so we didn't really talk that well. he should be due back by the end of the weekend, so hopefully i will catch up weekend, so hopefully i will catch up then! how are you feeling right

now, about the prospect of potentially seeing your partner of many years, for the first time in 40 yea rs, many years, for the first time in 40 years, at the weekend? mixed emotions. i mean i have seen the pictures and i have seen, you know, like... we do face time with the children as well and he has lost a lot of wake. everybody keeps telling me he looks healthy and fine. but it's going to be very scary. but at the same time i really can't wait to. thank you for updating us, yemi hailemariam, and we wish you well on that reuniting with your partner. and hopefully we will be able to talk to him on the programme soon as well. this morning we've been talking about germaine greer‘s comments on rape. lots of reaction from you to what she has said about rape. and here are some quotes from her. she was speaking at the hay literary festival. on rape: "most rapes don't involve

any injury whatsoever. "we are told its one of the most violent crimes "in the world — bull****." she says we should think of most rapes as bad sex. she says it always comes down to the issue of consent. she has called for a reduction in jail sentences were rapists, suggesting community service instead ora suggesting community service instead or a tattoo of the letter r on their cheek or hand. the crown prosecution service's guidelines call for a minimum sentence of five years in jailfor minimum sentence of five years in jail for someone convicted of rape. we asked jermaine germaine greer to come on the programme this morning that we have been told she is too busy. joining us instead... rape survivor and campaigner, emily hunt and leader of the women's equality party, sophie walker. germaine greer herself says she was raped before her 19th birthday — does that make a difference to you when you look at the comments she

made yesterday? i think one of the things that she spoke about which is really important to think about is that 62% to 70% of rape victims suffer from pts that 62% to 70% of rape victims sufferfrom pts big. i'm very happy for germaine greer that she does not seem for germaine greer that she does not seem to be one of those who suffers from ptsd, however it is the vast majority that do. we need to recognise that her experience is quite different. what she said was... the official per now is that 70% of rape victims suffer ptsd and only 20% of veterans. at this point you think, what the hell are you saying? that's something which leaves no sign, no injury, nothing, is more damaging to women than seeing your best friend blown up by an ied is to veteran? i actually do have friends who have served in afghanistan and iraq and i have spoken about my experience with some of them in depth and she does not question my having ptsd, she com pletely question my having ptsd, she completely understands. she does not think that my experience is not worthy of it. i was drugged and

raped by a stranger, i woke up in a hotel room next to somebody i had literally never seen before. i think ifi literally never seen before. i think if i were feeling ok about it i probably wouldn't be doing very well. we have spoken to you on the programme before and clearly you have waived your right to anonymity. i have. sophie, what do you think of some of these comments, most rape is just lazy, careless, insensitive. "most rape is just lazy, just careless, just insensitive. every time a man rolls over on his exhausted wife and insists on enjoying his conjugal rights he is raping her. it will never end up in a court of law." i think germaine greer is trying to do what a lot of feminists are trying to do which is to draw attention to the prevalence of rape and to do something about the horrific conviction rate that we have. i find horrific conviction rate that we have. ifind it horrific conviction rate that we have. i find it very interesting that she uses the word lazy in relation to rape, because we are lazy in society in terms of how we see rape and how we understand rape and how we discuss rape, in terms of how we prioritise a new

understanding of rape. and i think that we have got a very, very long way to go before we understand that rape isa way to go before we understand that rape is a daily occurrence for some women. yes, there are some women who are raped by their husbands, young girls who are raped by classmates. i've had a 16—year—olds say to me, i we nt i've had a 16—year—olds say to me, i went to a friend from class and i've onlyjust realised now that actually what he did to me was rape. i'm not sure she's denying that, what she's saying is, and maybe it feeds into your point, instead of thinking of rape as a spectacularly violent crime, and some rapes are, she says... about it as non—consensual, thatis says... about it as non—consensual, that is bad sex, sex where there is no communication, tenderness or mention of love. the thing which i strongly disagree with germaine greeron is strongly disagree with germaine greer on is that she says that because we can never prove... it keeps coming down to proof of consent, and because we failed to do that then we should look at making

the sentences more lenient as a sort of trade off for saying, just believe us and then we won't have to put them away for so long. and i think that what we should be doing instead is looking at in detail how the criminaljustice instead is looking at in detail how the criminal justice system instead is looking at in detail how the criminaljustice system lets women down. women are brutalised twice over, first by their rapist and second by a criminaljustice syste m and second by a criminaljustice system that doesn't see them, doesn't understand the experience. i think there's some very interesting work being done at the centre for women'sjustice, work being done at the centre for women's justice, and i work being done at the centre for women'sjustice, and i know emily is doing some work with this, ideas around having special prosecutors, so, people who are working very closely with the police, who have a forensic understanding of the investigation, who are able to come to this with an understanding of the details of the cases and also the psychology of victims, who can

explain muscles in court that a victim who is laughing is not someone victim who is laughing is not someone who is not taking it seriously but somebody who is deeply, deeply traumatised. but there is something else we are not talking about, and that is that violence against women is cause and consequence of women's inequality. that is what i mean when i say that we are lazy in how we talk about rape. i think one thing which is really important on this is that the cps is not very good at prosecuting rape. they deem weather somebody is a worthy victim or not and that is a large part of why they take case it forward. they would say the only reason they take case is forward is if there is sufficient evidence for a realistic chance of conviction? yes, their idea of a realistic chance of conviction however does not give our society much credit. of the cases which police hand to the cps and say that they think there should be a charge, the cps only ta kes 12% should be a charge, the cps only takes 12% of cases forward. we are living in a country where fewer than one in 100 rapists is going to jail

and we know from academic studies that the majority of rapists go on to do it again. on average 5.8 times over the course of their life. let me read this quote to use, as somebody who alleges rape. germaine greer says, and remember she says she was raped and she said it was violent, she says... "i was beaten half unconscious. i kept saying no so he hit me. i can't tell you how many times, maybe a dozen." but she did not report it because... she says... "we don't get as badly hurt as you want to believe." she added... "we haven't been destroyed, we've been annoyed." ori or i have is waking up to somebody i had literally never seen before... . because you say you were drugged.” was drugged, yeah. and that is terrifying enough. but it has deeply affected me, iam terrifying enough. but it has deeply affected me, i am one of that 62% to 70% of people who has ptsd and i am

out here trying to raise money to prosecute rape properly because the cps needs some help. they're not necessarily doing the job the right way, so fundraising to bring forward private prosecution is about my case first but then another case and another case, showing how rape can be prosecuted. is it time to start ignoring germaine greer? you are a feminist, she is a feminist, she's, you know, she's been respected for decades. how do you feel about her now? i think she does of very effective job of forcing people to look at difficult subjects. we are all here today, we are talking about rape, we've both actually had the opportunity to speak to a much wider audience about our experiences and thoughts on how we solve this. i think germaine greer is very good at doing the job of insisting that we look more closely at things that we'd rather not look at at all. and what do you think, emily?” we'd rather not look at at all. and what do you think, emily? i think she's trying to sell a book, honestly. i know that in order to

cut through in this day and age you need to say something quite provocative and i guess she has done that and we are all talking about it — but i'm not buying her book. today, the financial times is revealing a list of the most influencial ethnic minority executives in the uk. on boards the ftse100 is a list of some of the country's top companies on the stock exchange — but of those 100, only five have an ethnic minority ceo. yet eight of them have a ceo called david. why are there so few and how do we change the culture of big business? today, the financial times is revealing a list of the most influencial ethnic minority executives in the uk. but why are there so few and how do we change the culture of big business? top of the empower ethnic minority role models list is karen blacket obe— she's the country manager and chairwoman of marketing and communications companies wpp and media com. and she is here, as you can see!

ansd alongside her is suki sandhu he's the founder of empower which compiles the list of top ethnic minority role models in ftse 100 companies. have you heard of some of the excuses? i have! the issues arejust too complex for people like you!” just don't understand them, victoria! womenjust just don't understand them, victoria! women just don't want the hassle! absolutely, i would rather be at home in the kitchen! how do you react to some of those excuses?! it is almost as though we've gone back 50 years and we've seen no progress at all. and when you add to that issue ethnicity... so, i do think we focus a lot on gender. when you add a ethnicity into the mix, it's even worse. in your own experience, trying to get to the top

in the world of business, tell me about the sexism and racism you've encountered? i think i've been fortu nate encountered? i think i've been fortunate that i have worked for holding groups and companies where it has been about talent and it has been about excellence. so you have never experienced racism or sexism? within my own company i think you are promoted based on your excellency. however outside of the company that i work for i have experienced it, whether that is with clients or with media environments... one example was about ten, 15 years ago when i was pitching for a piece of business, trying to win a piece of business for a company and we didn't win it, and the two clients that were the decision—makers mentioned that there was no way we would have had a female account director, let alone a black woman. and that's not about the work, it would have been a lot better if they had spoken about the work wasn't good enough, or we had gone completely astray and we had not had the right solution — but it

was about me, my ethnicity and my gender. how did that make you feel? i would be lying if i said it didn't hurt because of course it did. but i think in order to get to the top you have to be resilient. and i think for every one person that there is that we'll say negative is like that there are far more thatjust wants to work with people that are excellent and can help their business. not only are you on this list but you are also named invoke's list but you are also named invoke's list of britain's 25 most influential women. congratulations, if does it mean anything? -- in germaine vogue's list. it is extraordinary. the thing i love about the empower list is that it is significant business people. when i was growing up as a kid in reading, my mum and there were immigrants from barbados and they wanted me to bea from barbados and they wanted me to be a doctor or a lawyer, a profession that you could take away.

and when i see lists like the empower list you see the plethora of amazing executives doing brilliant things at the top of their game across sections of business, which is amazing. suki sandhu, how do you react to the fact that in the ftse-100 react to the fact that in the ftse—100 there are more men in ceo positions called david than of the 100 companies ceos of an ethnic minority? it never surprises me. i hear these stats all the time, i think in the us it is even worse, so there are only three black ceo in there are only three black ceo in the fortune 500. it demonstrates a lack of representation for ethnic minorities in business at the top. i think the whole point of the list is to try and have more visible at the and representation. like karen said we want to challenge stereotypes about people and where they expect ethnic minorities to be but also about inspiring the next generation

of ethnic minorities so that they can get ahead without their ethnicity being a challenge for a problem. so, do you need to introduce, for example, something like the rooney rule which we see with the england and wales cricket board, agonising the issue of a lack of ethnic minority coaches within the game, they will interview at least one bame candidate for roles — do businesses need to do that? for me it is about getting a level playing field, when interviewing for any position. when you still have 51 boards in the ftse—100 which are all white, it shows there is a real problem. ethnic minorities are not getting the chance to be in front of the chairman and i say that because they are largely mention who are making these big decisions about who they have on their board. is it because they hire people who look like them? they hire in their own mirror image. it is a range of metrics which we have to employ in

companies to make sure it changes. i do think the rooney rule is brilliant because it is about widening the door... should it be introduced in business?” widening the door... should it be introduced in business? i do think it should be, because i do think that you should demand on any candidate shortlist representation on that shortlist. but that is just one thing. i also think you have to look at reverse entering and reverse sponsorship, and that's about people having access to the networks access to. —— reverse straight. it is also about people getting to middle executive positions. —— reverse mentoring. it is really hard once you are in that squeezed middle to get to the top. the focus in the la st get to the top. the focus in the last decade on boards has been gender. and that has progressed. we can't be complacent about women but when it comes to race companies are very, very uncomfortable talking about race, more so than anything... it is so bizarre, isn't it? in

britain in 2018... i don't want to cut you off but i have just cut you off! but thank you so much becoming on the programme and congratulations again. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. if you go to the bbc website you will see that whole list of a p pa re ntly will see that whole list of apparently why women can't be on business boards! a really namely day—to—day and we are now expecting downpours across some parts of the country. it has already been quite soggy on the south coast. this is the satellite image from the last six hours or so. you can see this cluster of cloud, this is the rain—bearing cloud which has been affecting the south. not too much in the way of rain—bearing cloud across the rest of the

country, that's because later on it is here where the showers will be developing during the early afternoon. so, downpours expected across parts of wales, the southern pa rt across parts of wales, the southern part of england this afternoon. very sudden downpours affect the potential for some flash flooding. lightning as well. further north, the weather will be better, with some sunshine. another warm day across the north. tonight you can see further rain moving through parts of wales. that will be on and off. tomorrow the risk transfers a little bit further north. this is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11:00.

cutting the high cost of credit — but campaigners say proposals to protect vulnerable consumers should have gone further. nhs trusts in england report a combined financial deficit of £960 million — nearly twice the expected figure. thatjust shows how difficult it is in the nhs and we really have to address that now. calls for the conservatives to hold an inquiry into alleged islamophobia within the party — we'll hear from its former chair baroness warsi shortly. also, what will brexit mean to they uk's creative industries? can the right note be struck to safeguard