tv HAR Dtalk BBC News June 15, 2018 4:30am-5:01am BST
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of the fbi made a "serious error ofjudgement" when he re—opened an investigation into hillary clinton. the report says james comey was insubordinate in his handling of the investigation into hillary clinton's use of private e—mail. the us state of new york is taking legal action against president trump's charitable foundation and asked for it to be dissolved. president trump himself and three of his children are also being sued. it's alleged the foundation made payments designed to influence the 2016 presidential election. thousands of people have taken part in a silent march past the remains of grenfell tower in west london to mark the first anniversary of the fire. the names of the 72 people who lost their lives were read out at a memorial service. now on bbc news. it's hardtalk with zeinab badawi. welcome to hardtalk
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with me, zeinab badawi. the new ethiopian government is making dramatic reforms in the country. the state of emergency had been lifted, the military and intelligence chiefs have been replaced, and opposition politicians have been released en masse from prison. one of those released is andargachew tsege, a prominent opposition leader from the organisation, patriotic ginbot7. he had been on death row in an ethiopian jail for four years. will his group renounce violence and will he go back to ethiopia to help build the country's future? andargachew tsege,
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welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. so, you were at the airport in yemen in 2014, and then you were arrested and taken to ethiopia, you were en route to eritrea where your group is based. just tell us briefly what happened. as you said, i was in transit, and i have a feeling the ethiopian authorities somehow got the knowledge i was in yemen. and maybe they used the very corrupt yemeni intelligence officers, paid a lot of money, i believe, and theyjust took me out
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of the waiting hall. and they passed me to the ethiopian intelligence officers that came about six hours later, and they kept me in the airport, in a little room. the intelligence officers, four of them, they handcuffed me behind my back and used heavy—duty silver tape to tape my eyes and mouth and took me to a waiting plane. i did not know where i was being taken. that must have been very painful to have thick tape right across your eyes and mouth. especially when they handcuffed you. your hands were at the back, that's very, very painful. anyway, that is the way they transported me to ethiopia. you ended up in an ethiopianjail?
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not a properjail. just a villa, and they had a room with no windows, just a small hole near the thing, and i was kept there for a year and a month until i was taken to the federal prison, the legal prison. as a co—leader of this opposition group, ginbot 7, you had been sentenced in absentia in 2012 to death. yeah. so how were you treated in prison? you were obviously a very, very valuable opposition figure to authorities. for five days they did not remove the handcuffs. for five whole days? i did not sleep. with your hands at the back, it does not matter if they are in the front, you know? i preferred at the time to be shot because it hurt so much. what about the tape? they took the tape and they chained
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my legs, that went on for five days. but the handcuffs, they brought it to the front, and that was kept for a month. but the chains on my legs were kept there for three months. but until i saw, umm, the british ambassador, after a month or a month and a half, i was not sure what would be my fate, because i thought... i did not know where i was. you thought that you might just be executed? yeah, and just dumped somewhere. so, although you are an ethiopian opposition figure, you actually have a british passport, that is why you mentioned the british ambassador. but your wife said the british authorities were not helpful. she said at the time "i would have thought the uk would have clarity on this issue and say "yes, this is wrong," that you had been
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abducted and kept in prison like this." were they helpful? it was a bit of difficulty with my wife. she is under so much pressure and was demanding a lot. but for me, the sight of a british ambassadorjust by itself was a relief because at that time i was certain they would not take a drastic measure. i knew now the outside world knew where i was. so the british helped you? yeah, that was the beginning. and they were helping, because i had nothing, really. it was just solitary confinement. so they, i was ill a number of times, they demanded i be treated well a number of times and that i be seen by a doctor or a medical person. especially once i was out of the hands of the security and transferred to the federal prison, they did what they could. the nature of the ethiopian government, you know...
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what do you mean "they did what they could?" sometimes, in these countries with dictators running these nations, you push them sometimes and it can backfire, you know? so they tried in a very gentle diplomacy, in fact. and what i needed really most was a contact to the outside world. i was on my own. so, four years in prison, and then, at the end of may, you were released, when thousands of prisoners, many of them political prisoners, were released by the new prime minister, abiy ahmed. you were involved in ethiopian politics for a long time. in 2005, you went back to ethiopia from britain, and got involved in politics. but then you were arrested, kept in prison for a month.
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then you came back to the uk. look at you, a major ethiopian opposition figure, you cannot have dual nationality because ethiopia does not allow that. it is convenient if when things get rough you can come back to the united kingdom. when things were normal, i would have preferred, really, to work in a country where i could contribute a lot. but this is the way things are. so it does help. because there were many opposition figures who did not have the luxury of a british passport who had a really tough time staying in the country, trying to change things from within. yeah, but that didn't really save me from the abduction, you know? but it does... it does help as well. and in 2008, in exile, you formed the patriotic ginbot 7, this opposition group, you are the secretary general of it. did you have a clear vision,
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an idealogy, beyond just opposing the government of meles zenawi and beyond? more than any political group in human history, it is this organisation that has a very clear vision. it is based on the outcome of the 2005 election. that election was rigged, you know? i mean, we believe the opposition won it. but meles' government used his army and his security forces. and the opposition went to court, in fact, and it was filled with political cadres of the ruling party, so we didn't got any result there. we tried to take the case to the streets, but demonstration was banned. we really reflected, what was the problem with that election and why are the grievances of the people not addressed?
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we came to the conclusion, unless you are in independent institutions, organisations, to make democracy functional in a country like ethiopia, there is no point going to an election. 0ur point was to make elections conducted fairly. and the winner takes power civilly. but ginbot 7 was committed to achieving its objectives you just outlined "by any means," you've said. earlier in 2012, your party's supporters said they wanted to consider all means to take meles zenawi down by armed struggle.
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some of the supporters of ginbot 7 said that. so armed struggle is fundamental to your means. no. look at the guys that formed ginbot7. they had a history that has really caused so much pain in our lives. i lost a brother to the army. the chairman lost his sister, who was 20, a student, who was a classmate as well, you know? so we were very, very reluctant to add armed resistance or violence... but the head of foreign affairs forginbot7, based in the uk, told hardtalk on the ninth of april this year, in many parts of ethiopia we continue through armed struggle and civil disobedience. we espouse not only armed struggle, but all forms of struggle, including civil disobedience. that's what he says.
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so armed struggle, using force, is part of your methods? look at the 2005 election. look at the terror conducted by the regime in power. they cornered us in a position where at least we should assert the moral rights of dissent. since we have declared that we have not fired a single... really, because in 2012, you were found guilty along with 22 with 22 acts of attempted terrorism carried out inside ethiopia. it is said ginbot 7 have claimed major attacks in northern ethiopian, march, 2017, several attacks in north gindazo, also in may, 2016, the southern district
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of arba minch, it is said ginbot 7 killed 20 soldiers and injured 50. and the chairman of ginbot 7, your organisation, said this is an indication of the beginning of the fight in all directions in the country. so you do carry out attacks in ethiopia? not really. i was in prison, but i can tell you as an organisation, ginbot 7, i don't think it has fired a single bullet. why was your colleague... perhaps it is referring to what has happened in all of these areas. so you have not heard about killing 20 soldiers and injuring 50? not at all. i was in prison... i understand that you were in prison, but you are secretary general of ginbot 7. i was completely denied of any... i had no access to the news! ijust assume now, and since i got out, nobody informed me that if this organisation took these measures, i would have known about it. i believe, in fact,
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there was a countrywide resistance, and it was part of the resistance, a number of armed groups could take measures like that. but not ginbot 7. but ginbot 7 is still banned technically in ethiopia, was banned, because it was seen as a terror organisation. that much, you must know. who are the terrorists in ethiopia? 70,000 supporters in 15 days... well, we have that with the authorities. who is a terrorist? you know? a government that has killed over 1,000 protesters and put all elected parliamentarians in prison! they stayed in power using terror. and we morally asserted, really, our moral rights rather than really wanting to use violence. so, will you renounce violence now? of course! i mean, you know, with the situation in ethiopian, the way it is developing now,
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you know, a favourable thing to engage in politics in a peaceful way, we definitely renounce it. we were reluctant, you know? we were pushed into it. are you, you doing that? no question, there is a process. but there is no question that we will be very eager, in fact, very eager, because it is not good for a country like ethiopia. it is a very complex and very sensitive country. did this come up when you had a 90 minute face—to—face conversation with the prime minister on your release, did you say to him, we are going to renounce violence, prime minister? he didn't ask me but our conversation covered a lot of issues. he assumed... he knows, for some reason, to talk to lots of individuals, that we are, the ginbot 7. he's got great confidence in fact
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in the way we would handle the changes in ethiopia. did he said he was not banning you, did you get the impression... did he tell you, did you ask if you could be unbanned? i didn't ask him, there were a number of officials there, he said he was going to do it soon. he's taken a measure in allowing all giving really the right for it to be overturned. a number of other opposition leaders as well. he is based in or eritrea, where ginbot 7 is, and eritrea have been having bad relations with ethiopia to put it mildly. vicious war for 30 years and around 80,000 died. is it wise to be based in eritrea still? we are not based in eritrea. we have a very good relationship with eritrea. we have very few members in eritrea but our organisation is based in ethiopia. 0ur relationship with eritrea is not really based on short—term gain. just really for the sake of really getting assistance to fight and struggle against the current government. in fact, my view about eritreans has helped in convincing the current foreign minister to take the measure he has taken. what is your view?
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you have met the long—time leader of eritrea, is this the man that ahmed could do business with? i think he can do. there are a lot of things the outside world doesn't know about the eritrea ns. i strongly believe. of course there are some issues. but they will, i have a feeling there is going to be peace between ethiopia and eritrea and a very close relationship in all aspects as well. with ahmed, as i said, you met him for an hour and a half, what kind of issues did you discuss? one issue is what he would do, you know? all the different measures he would take in order to convince the opposition groups and leaders. did he convince you that this was somebody you could trust? he did, yes, a lot. what was the chemistry like with you and the new prime minister?
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he said there was a lot of resistance within his party. he said to the ruling party either he would resign or i would be released. he gave them that sort of choice. that's what he told me. i was surprised really that he raised the stakes are high for my release. that was the beginning of our good relationship i think. so the prime minister actually put his job on the line and threatened to resign unless you were released. that is also exactly his words. i believe him as well because i knew how much resistance he would face within his party. there are individuals or groups within his party that fake my guts, i tell you! he has made very,
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very dramatic changes. an ethiopian analyst at keele university in the uk said his appointment has led to moves of tectonic movements. he has changed the military and intelligence chiefs, liberalising the economy, so more investment can come in. all sorts of things, releasing opposition figures such as you, he does it for the best chance, doesn't he? i cannot comment on the measures he's taken for the economy because i'm not an economist. the most essential thing is the political one. once you see the political problems in ethiopia then it is easy to solve the economic and social problems. the steps he has taken are very encouraging but there are a number of things that should be done.
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replacing the security chief, or the army chief, is one thing, but changing the institutions to impartial institutions that serve all people, all opposition, all political groups is another thing. there's work to be done. one big challenge for any leader, including you in your opposition group, is to appeal to all ethiopians, you are from a people that form 27% of the population in ethiopia and even though you say you are for all ethiopians but your population bases mainly from your group, as the same with the new prime minister, they represent 44% of the population, he has a lot of support among them. how can you as ethiopians appealed to ethiopians of all tribal backgrounds? ginbot 7, maybe the rank—and—file members could be of the president's people. you have admitted most of your supporters are from your people,
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it's an issue, isn't it? an ethnic system? in the country, yeah, but as an organisation, we are finding lots of people from lots of ethnic groups and we have to work on that to make it more multi—ethnic, multinational, as we put it in ethiopia. it is a problem. we've seen the instigation of a new national movement, and that shows us make identity is still important. identity politics has been entrenched for 37 years and that's one of the major problems the current prime minister is facing. the way he's going about it, all his... it starts with solving this problem of ethnic problems and creating really a unified country.
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what assurances did the prime minister give you that you would be welcome in ethiopia? he demanded in fact that i shouldn't go back to england as fast... i met him, the very evening i met him he was leaving. the verschuren the gives you is personal. we wanted to give him assurance based on law and institutions. the goodwill of our prime minister is one thing but you don't know the person in the security service's intentions. what did he want you to stay in ethiopia to do? join a political party, join the government? talk to particular government groups close to him and affiliated with him. those groups that came from abroad as well. he said i should take my time and discuss. he's having a big consultation publicly, isn't he, appealing to all opposition groups to return and take part
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in the political process. the elections are in 2020, will you stand and in what capacity? in my case i'm a british national and ethiopian law doesn't allow any... would you give up your british passport and take an ethiopian one? we will have to see in the coming months and years. you cannot say no to that. when will you go back? we haven't finished discussing the situation in ethiopia with my fellow comrades outside. we need to have a thorough discussion and come up with our own road plan for this transition. finally, do you feel like you want to be part of the effort to build ethiopia? that's been our dream
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let's get you right up to date with how we see the next few days or so across all parts of the british isles. storm hector pretty much lived up to what we expected of it. some of the gusts were really quite disruptive. this was the damage as seen in muirkirk, in the eastern side of ayrshire. but it wasn't like it everywhere. further south, once the frontal system cleared away, yes, it was a breezy old day, but at least there was some sunshine to speak of, and that will be the way of it for the most part on friday, as well. there's hector heading away towards the top end of the north sea, up into the norwegian sea. still quite a powerful beast, so it will still be quite breezy across northern parts of scotland, but nowhere near the sort of strength that we saw during the course of thursday. there will still be quite a raft of showers, longer spells of rain getting into central, western parts of scotland initially, then gradually dribbling away a little bit further east.
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further south, the odd isolated shower, no great organisation about them, and the top temperature on the day of 22. so the weekend — saturday showers, if not longer spells of rain, but the weekend by no means a write—off. here we are on saturday with quite an active little frontal system for the sort of top half of the british isles. so northern parts of wales, the north midlands, and all points north at some point in the day seeing some really quite heavy rain. further south, the trailing portion of that weather front, well, there'll be a lot of cloud, there'll be the odd bit and piece of rain. gardeners, that won't be the answer to your prayers. that frontal system takes the time to move away as the low pressure transfers away off into the north sea. and there's a little ridge of high pressure just follows on behind, trying to set sunday up as a better day than saturday. and it will succeed, for the most part, although you really couldn't rule out, later in the day, perhaps a cold frontjust dragging more cloud and the prospect of a wee bit of rain into the far west of england, western wales, and then arcing away to the south—west of scotland, maybe up into northern ireland too. so generally speaking, on sunday, the further north and east you are, the drier and brighter your day should be.
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here we move you from sunday on into monday, and again a little weak ridge of high pressure just trying to settle things down across the southern half of the british isles. looking further north, well, you've still got that prospect of a south—westerly breeze, probably a bit of it, as well, and just about enough in the way of cloud for there to be showers, if not longer spells of rain, again affecting the western side of scotland, and perhaps ireland too. but, in the sunshine further south, 23 could be yours. i'm maryam moshiri. our top stories: this is the briefing. errors ofjudgement but not political bias, thejustice department's verdict on the former fbi director who investigated hillary clinton's e—mails. fighting for survival in yemen. humanitarian supplies are at risk
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as saudi—led forces attack a port held by rebel fighters. and i'm lucy hockings in moscow. after russia's spectacular start, we'll have a look at the next big games in the world cup. in business, upping the ante. the white house set to confirm new tariffs on hundreds of chinese products despite warnings from the imf. we'll also be hearing from the boss of confectionery giant mars
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