hello it's thursday, it's nine o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. "the worst moorland fire in living memory" — firefighters say they're still battling the blaze in greater manchester. around 100 soldiers and an raf chinook helicopter are being sent in to help. we can see this being prolonged for days if not weeks, particularly with the fact the wind has drawn the fires towards the residential, but actually away from the centre of the moor. iam out i am out by swineshaw reservoir where army troops are heading on to the more land is shortly. police and a senior coroner are warning parents about the risks of this video game which features characters self harming and killing themselves. we will talk about doki doki literature club after one father said he believed it was a factor in his 15—year—old son's suicide.

and this week milly dowler would have turned 30. we'll talk live to her sister, gemma dowler, who says after years of trauma and grief for theirfamily, there is now a chance of happiness for them all. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11:00 this morning. do do you play the video game doki doki literature club? it features self harm and suicide and there are warnings about the effect it can have on children after a 15—year—old who played the game killed himself. also this morning, we're talking about carers after new analysis by the bbc showed care providers are having to pay their staff £400 million in back pay after they were underpaid for night working. there's a warning many care providers could go bust which could lead to a shortage of carers. are you a carer who will be affected? do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning, use the hashtage victorialive and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

our top story today — the armed forces have been deployed to help firefighters who are battling to contain a vast fire sweeping across moorland in greater manchester. around 100 soldiers from the royal regiment of scotland were sent overnight tojoin firefighters. an raf helicopter has also been deployed to help put out six separate pockets of flames that cover around seven miles of moorland. officials are concerned that the dry weather could slow down the operation. we can see this being prolonged for days, if not weeks, particularly with the fact that the wind has drawn the fires towards the residential, but actually away from the centre of the moor. we only need a change in wind direction to then see that fire increasing into where the greater fuel source is. so we could see a dramatic change. 0ur correspondent inzamam rashid is at swineshaw reservoir

near glossop this morning. tell us the situation right now. just under an hour ago the troops turned up in dramatic fashion at swineshaw reservoir, immediately going into a briefing and being told they would be getting out on the more land very shortly. we can see plumes of smoke coming from the more land, still pockets of fire roaring in this part of the world as it heats up every day and every hour. we are expecting temperatures in the high 20s later and there are perfect conditions for fires to be spreading gci’oss conditions for fires to be spreading across the next few days. army officials have told us and fire services have told us we could be here for weeks and notjust days. joining as is the mp for high against any bridge, jonathan reynolds. a series incident. —— hyde

and stalybridge. absolutely, it is very emotional and this is the front line as you can see both is a massive incident in of resources and what is meant for local people. we have had fires before but the scale of this, what is being deployed, people being evacuated, it is bigger than anything in living memory. we have heard from school teachers saying they have never had to shut down schools before. can you tell us what life has been like for the residents? we had to shut one of the schools because if the windows were open the smoke alarms went off. people have been brilliant but it has been difficult. people have the ability to share pictures and videos and you get a sense of how difficult it has looked in parts of the area. most people have been able to move back now. they were able to go to friends and family so it is not a

civil evacuation facility which makes it a bit easier. but people have been marvellous and they appreciate the massive work going on particularly from greater manchester fire and rescue service and now the armed forces and the police and council, everybody has been involved and local people are very grateful for that. the army have been here recently, arriving this morning and are expected to be here for the next 48 hours or so with maybe a plan to extend as well. what does it mean to have the army here in your constituency? it is what people wanted. people might not know the area but the scale is such that actually getting firefighters to where they need to be an water as well as be a massive challenge and in some cases firefighters were walking for up to two miles in full equipment. if the army can bring in help with logistics, getting people to places, getting high—pressure pumps to places, that is what we

need. in some parts of this fire it has been about beating it back and if there is additional manpower to do that that is very welcome. thank you, mp jonathan do that that is very welcome. thank you, mpjonathan reynolds. the fire is still blazing on the moorlands here on saddleworth moor. the chopper is on call if it needs to be deployed so the chinook helicopter will be called if greater manchester fire and rescue service believe it needs to be but right now the army will be going on to the more land to see if they can help the fire and rescue services tackling the blaze thatis rescue services tackling the blaze that is coming here. thank you very much. annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. good morning. theresa may will meet european leaders in brussels today, after she was warned that time is running out to secure a brexit deal. the prime minister is set to join a key eu council meeting where she'll give an update on britain's plans for exiting the union. they're also due to discuss migration, economics and security. 0ur correspondent damian

grammaticas is in brussels. good morning. theresa may has any number of voices telling her what she ought to do and plenty from the other 27 countries telling her what to do as well also can she cut through that and assert her leadership to make progress at this meeting? the short answer is no. and that may be disappointing but the format of this is part of the reason format of this is part of the reason for that. theresa may herself will not in any way be able to negotiate 01’ even not in any way be able to negotiate or even advance the negotiations here. the other leaders simply do not entertain that. what she can do is brief them and what they want to hear from is brief them and what they want to hearfrom her is is brief them and what they want to hear from her is about the next steps, how the uk is going to unblock the faculties over the

negotiations over the border in ireland and the issue of what shape the future relationship has. they wa nt to the future relationship has. they want to hear her broad thoughts on and to get new ideas because the few of the eu is that the uk simply has not come up with credible or workable positions on those issues and without that the negotiations will not be moving forward fast at all on those major issues. they are looking for signals from her. what they will deliver tomorrow morning isa they will deliver tomorrow morning is a sharp message saying we need that information and those positions fast and then it will be back to the negotiators over the summer. thank you very much a damien. the duke of cambridge concludes his tour of the middle east today with a visit to historical and religious sites in eastjerusalem. here he's seen visiting the mount of 0lives, a mountain ridge adjacent tojerusalem's old city. yesterday, he met palestinian president, mahmoud abbas, in the first official british royal visit to the occupied west bank and also expressed

hope for "lasting peace" between israelis and palestinians. 0ur royal correspondent, nicholas witchell, has more. he's met young people from both sides, israeli and palestinian. and last night in eastjerusalem, prince william spoke of their hopes. i'm also struck by how many people in the region want a just and lasting peace. this is only too evident among the young people i've met, who long for a new chapter to be written in the history of this region. a chapter which will secure a prosperous future and will ensure that their enormous talents can flourish. 0n william's final day, he will see some of the historic places in and around the old city ofjerusalem, beginning on the mount of olives and moving onto the garden of gethsemane. it will be a chance to learn more about a city which occupies such

an important place in thejewish, islamic and christian faiths. all in all, it will be an intense reminderfor william, of the complexities of this city and this region, where different cultures, religions and politics have such a tendency to collide. nicholas witchell, bbc news, jerusalem. universities are being told to "dramatically improve" support for students with mental health issues. the government is announcing it will award a certificate of excellence to institutions which meet new standards of mental health care. it also wants universities to give students an opt—in service which will allow vice—chancellors to contact parents if needed. it takes about ten years to train a gp, but the creators of a new artificial intelligence ‘chatbot‘ say the algorithm they have created is more effective than a medic‘s expertise when it comes to diagnosing patients. their claims have sparked a row with british doctors who say an app can never replace a real, human medical expert. and at 11:30 on the bbc news channel

we'll be discussing the latest report produced for the bbc about the nhs, today looking at technology. what do you want to know about how technology will change the nhs? send in your questions to #bbcaskthis, text 61124, or email askthis@bbc.co.uk. british scientists have come up with a new technique to help tackle the poaching of one the most endangered animals on the planet. the pangolin is the world's only scaly mammal. it's eaten for its meat and its scales are used in chinese traditional medicines. now a team at portsmouth university for the first time has come up with new fingerprint technique to help identify the criminals behind the illegal trade. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. more at 9:30. do get in touch with us throughout the morning. particularly if you are an england

supporter, should england go for the win tonight if it might mean a trickier route if they get through the round of 16? should they play tactically and come second because it would be kinder later on? let us know. use the hashtage victorialive and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. let's get the lastest from the world cup. sarah is at the bbc sport centre. everybody knows that the germans are going home and quite a few england supporters are happy about that! they are and we are still coming to terms with the fact that the defending champions are out of the world cup after the first round for the first time since 1938, that was after losing 2—0 to south korea. they conceded twice in injury time as they pressed for a goal which would have sent them through. kim

young—gwon scored the first confirmed by var, and then goalkeeper manuel neuer was caught out in open play and the ball ended up out in open play and the ball ended up in the net with son heung—min tapping it in. the four time winners crashing out, sweden going through as group winners after they beat mexico. disbelief for the german players. defender mats hummels was pa rt players. defender mats hummels was part of the winning squad four years ago, so was mesut 0zil. big questions for coachjoachim ago, so was mesut 0zil. big questions for coach joachim low ago, so was mesut 0zil. big questions for coachjoachim low over selection and tactics and he said it was something for them to reckon with and would create public uproar in germany. he also said they deserved to go out. you wonder why we support our teams! fans in berlin we re we support our teams! fans in berlin were watching and there was shock and disbelief. those are the words we keep coming back to as we tried to put some sense to this. this

world cup i think the team is not finished, they need two years to be a good team. all three matches, it was awful. i thought maybe the last 20 minutes they did everything but it was from first minute the same. 20 minutes they did everything but it was from first minute the samelj think we have got many troubles inside the team and the german people so they were arguing and there is no unit. a lot of reaction across social media of course. 0ne word from mats hummels. sorry. and one of the newspapers saying speechless. the same word as four yea rs speechless. the same word as four years ago after the demolition of brazil back then and now going out.

and look at this from brazil after all that four years ago! a bit of revenge. and no such problems for brazil? no, they cruised through to the last 16 after beating serbia 2-0. the last 16 after beating serbia 2—0. they will face mexico next after topping their group. paulinho put them in front of a great run from him and a lovely ball from philippe coutinho and a great finish to put them ahead. and later, after some pressure from serbia, they got their second, thiago silva unmarked from a corner. they seem to be moving through the gears. switzerland are also through as runners—up after they drew with costa rica. and for england or belgium, it is about who comes top of the group second. it is the question everyone is asking, is it better to lose to

belgian? so many fans wondering that but i wonder if that is the team and managers of thinking because england and belgium have got through to the last 16 and the only thing to decide is who wins the group later in kaliningrad. a lot saying it would be better to go through as runners—up and they would face the winner of group h,japan, runners—up and they would face the winner of group h, japan, sanibel or colombia, and possibly a quarterfinal with sweden or switzerland. if they beat belgium, it would set up a possible quarterfinal with brazil. but they would need to get that first and as we've seen, what has happened to the big teams in this tournament alone, there has got to be a good performance and momentum, you don't wa nt to performance and momentum, you don't want to be worrying about anything else, surely? thank you very much. if you are an england fan, what do you take the tea m england fan, what do you take the team should do tonight, go for the all—out when play tactically so they come second in the group and a potentially kinder draw if they get through the last 16? do let me know.

good morning. we're going to start this morning by taking about a free, online game after police and a coroner have warned about the risks to children. doki doki literature club! starts like a dating game — set in a high school — and features a group of animated girls in a book club. but things do turn sinister, with characters self—harming and killing themselves. it's said to be suitable for players aged 13 or over. it was launched last year and was downloaded two million times in the first four months. an inquest will be held into the death of 15—year—old ben walmsley, from bury, whose father said the game "dragged" his son in. today, a pre—inquest review is taking place at 10am. greater manchester police say... "we believe this game is a risk to children and young people, especially those that are emotionally vulnerable and anyone with existing mental health concerns."

the coroner has warned... "this is a psychological horror game with suicide as a main feature." and notes, "it does warn it is not suitable for children, however, the graphics etc are clearly aimed at young people'". we've contacted the game's creators, team salvato, but so far, we've not heard back. here's the trailer for the game, with that warning right at the start. let's talk about this further with the news editor for the video game website kotaku uk, laura dale. mum—of—two and casual gamer helen grounds. she has played doki doki and is a fan. and lorna fraser, from the suicide prevention charity samaritans. laura dale. you've played it, describe the premise. the basic premise of the game, it

sta rts the basic premise of the game, it starts off like a dating game, you go to starts off like a dating game, you gotoa starts off like a dating game, you go to a dating trash bookclub to make friends with these girls and it becomes a horror narrative. spoilers for the game, one of the characters, as it turns out, is not happy you we re as it turns out, is not happy you were dating the other video game characters and she manipulates events so other characters will commit suicide and drive you towards dating her instead. what is your reaction to this warning from the coroner “— reaction to this warning from the coroner —— and greater manchester police about the risks to children and those who are vulnerable? police about the risks to children and those who are vulnerable ?m police about the risks to children and those who are vulnerable? it is the same as risks of any media that deals with these themes, video games or movies or box. if you have someone or movies or box. if you have someone in an emotionally vulnerable state and you have them engaging with media that tackles the dinner difficult things —— these difficult things and they don't have an outlet to talk about that, that can be a problem. a lot of it comes down to

communication and making sure that if you have a child who is already struggling with those themes, you aware of what kind of media they engage with. helen, you have two younger children. this game is said to be suitable for 13 and upwards because it asks you to tick if you are 13 upwards, which any age could do. despite the warning, do you think it is deliberately designed to look attractive to kids? personally, it isa look attractive to kids? personally, it is a dating game. these are not children'sgames. some people get the idea this and a style is childish because it is cartoonish but it can because it is cartoonish but it can be for anyone in japan because it is cartoonish but it can be for anyone injapan and it is in the us and the uk and this is not a game for children. i would not say 13. even that is too young? it is questionable considering the sort of

things. when you start the game, there is enormous text saying the game is not suitable for children. if you are easily disturbed, you should not play this, it tries to tell you, don't play this if you are undera certain age tell you, don't play this if you are under a certain age or you are easily disturbed. as somebody who does suffer from mental health problems. i was thinking, should does suffer from mental health problems. iwas thinking, should i buy this? but i did. it did not affect me. if anything, some of the issues kind of helped me realise if a person acts are certain way, maybe they really do need help. right. had you react to this warning from the coroner and from greater manchester police? they say, we believe the game isa police? they say, we believe the game is a risk to children and young people, especially those emotionally vulnerable and anyone with existing mental health concerns. i does paris to check the sites that children use

ona to check the sites that children use on a regular basis as websites like this are not flagged up by normal settings —— i would ask parents. this are not flagged up by normal settings —— i would ask parentslj totally agree. parents need to know what their child is doing online. i won't let my child go on my laptop on his own. only allowed to access certain things and i sit with him. my eldest is eight years old. he is only allowed to play a game called hit the button used in a lot of schools. the only other time he can access the internet that is at school and there is a teacher watching over them. and i will sit with him if he wants to do homework, we go on wikipedia together and we research things together and we read it together. and you have said you think 13 is potentially too young, what would be a suitable age? considering the things... it is a difficult thing because the issue is

free games like doki doki don't come underany kind of free games like doki doki don't come under any kind of age rating like video games you can buy in a game shop. you can easily download them for free and they don't go through the stringent sheet of certain rating like we have the uk. to be honest, i would say 18, considering there is graphic parts. it is quite upsetting. let's be clear, when you play the game, do you see characters kill themselves sometimes in quite graphic situations? one of them especially, yes. had you respond that, from the lorna fraser? we believe this is an example where it is important for parents to be aware of the things they do online just as you would want to protect your child if your kids are going out. you would like to know where they are

going, who they are hanging out with, how they are getting home. we would encourage parents to have these conversations with your kids and be aware of what they do online. it could give you a false sense of security because they are tucked away in their bedroom, on a tablet or computer, playing something that they are safe at home, but be aware that are dangers. it is also important to avoid any confusion around focusing on one particular game. because there will be others. we don't want to give the message to parents, firstly, to alarm parents because there are a lot of good things online as well. but not to give the message to parents that if your child is not playing this particular game, there is no cause for concern. there are others. you are head in agreement. definitely, there are certain parts of this that lead me to suspect it might not have been the only game involved in this tragic event. without knowing... we

will have to wait for the inquest, we cannot speculate. there were state m e nts we cannot speculate. there were statements made about this game by the father that things not featured in this game which would suggest perhaps there were other games engage with that not the focus of this inquest. this is going to look at and say, should your child playing this? and be aware of what else they are playing because there might be other potential risk factors available. the game itself warns it is not suitable for children. as a mother of two, helen says, i think 13 is too young. if you see in quite graphic situations are carried to themselves, would you agree 18 is more appropriate? —— a character killing themselves. these games are not rated by the ratings boards in the uk. most of the uk ratings boards would likely rate this at least 15, 18 because it

contains scenes of graphic violence related to suicide. my question is, asa related to suicide. my question is, as a parent, if you are across the stuff your kids are playing on ta blets stuff your kids are playing on tablets and laptops and bones, you would like to see the beginning which says, this game is not suitable for children. that was me, i would think my my 14, 15 in a year, teenager is all right plainness and if you played as an adult, you might think, this is not suitable for a 14—year—old, 15—year—old and a 16—year—old. suitable for a 14—year—old, 15-year-old and a 16-year-old. some people would see that warning that says you should be a big 13 and say... there is not a warning that says you should be over 13. let's be clear. it says this game is not suitable for children and you have to tick the box if you are over 13. if there is ticked box saying if you are over 13, if there is ticked box saying if you are over13, and if there is ticked box saying if you are over 13, and a standby parents would go, my child is 14, 15, 16 and fine with it. there is definitely a

concern to be made for parents not paying attention to what their children engage with just because there is an age box ticked first. children engage with just because there is an age box ticked firstlj am there is an age box ticked first.” am being realistic is apparent. i might see it says 13 and tick the box and then i would think it is fine for my teenager.” box and then i would think it is fine for my teenager. i am not saying that as criticism for pa rents, saying that as criticism for parents, i understand the difficulty. i understand that difficulty. i understand that difficulty. the nspcc save the game creators warn it is not suitable for children and those who are easily disturbed, parents should be aware the game contains highly sensitive and adult themes such as suicide and it is important to have regular conversations with children about their online lives that are as normal as asking about their day at school. what is your advice parents to who might be concerned about this? to do exactly that, get to know what your kids are doing online

and make this part of everyday conversation so it is not, it doesn't feel like you are prying into that private lives or doing anything like this. and also, making mental health and emotional health pa rt of mental health and emotional health part of everyday conversations. these things families need to talk about because it helps to keep people safe. thank you very much. a couple of messages here. an e—mail, it isa couple of messages here. an e—mail, it is a horror game with a cute appearance and it tells you that when you start your game, it says this game is not for children or those who are easily disturbed and a web page lists the unpleasant content. it is up to parents to regulate and investigate and ensure healthy communication in case the child develops mental health problems. this is from somebody who says, i have been playing violent games from when i was six years old and goldeneye and i continue to do so 20 plus years later. i'm a

successful individual with no criminal records or tendency to kill or steel, everybody‘s individual and every individual is different but blame the game is silly. perry should have a grasp of what children are peeling like and offer support. —— parents. thank you for those and keep those coming in. and if you wld like to contact someone about any mental health issues, you can find details of organisations offering information and support at bbc.co.uk/actionline, or you can call for free, at any time, to hear recorded information on 08000155 998. still to come... as soldiers start to arrive in greater manchester to help tackle the huge moorland fire that could last "for weeks", we'll be talking to the leader of tameside council, brenda warrington, for her reaction. time for the latest news. here's annita. the headlines on bbc news. the armed forces have been deployed to help firefighters who are battling to contain a vast fire sweeping across moorland in greater manchester. around 100 soldiers from the royal regiment

of scotland were sent overnight tojoin firefighters. an raf helicopter has also been deployed to help put out six separate pockets of flames that cover around seven miles of moorland. officials are concerned that the dry weather could slow down the operation. we can see this being prolonged for days, if not weeks, particularly with the fact that the wind has drawn the fires towards the residential, but actually away from the centre of the moor. we only need a change in wind direction to then see that fire increasing into where the greater fuel source is. so we could see a dramatic change. theresa may has been warned that time is running out to secure a brexit deal, as she prepares to join other european union leaders at a summit in brussels this afternoon. significant steps in the negotiations were expected to have been made at the meeting. but the irish prime minister, leo varadkar, has described the lack of progress as "disappointing". prince william concludes his tour of the middle east today with a trip

british scientists have come up with a new technique to help tackle the poaching of one the most endangered animals on the planet. the pangolin is the world's only scaly mammal. it's eaten for its meat and its scales are used in chinese traditional medicines. now a team at portsmouth university for the first time has come up with new fingerprint technique to help identify the criminals behind the illegal trade. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. cat has treated us, she has played doki doki literature club, she has depression but she says not once did the game broke into it. she says it is another excuse for people blame video games for people with not enough help for mental health issues. do get in touch. let's get the latest sport. the holders germany are on their way home from the world cup. heartbreak and a lot

of questions for fans and players alike with the four—time champions knocked out in the first round for the first time since 1938. england are in kaliningrad and ready to take on belgium in theirfinal group game with both teams already through to the last 16 but the winner will go through as group winners. andy murray was beaten by kyle edmund at eastbourne but he says he is still undecided about wimbledon but he said if he does take part they will be no risk to his fitness. england's dominance over australia continues after the 5—01—day series whitewash there was a 28 run win in the only t20 international at edgbaston. that is all the sport, more later. prince william ends his tour of the middle east today by visiting a number of sites in and around the old city ofjerusalem. he's spending time at temple mount — also known as haram al—sharif — as well as the western wall and the church of the holy sepulchre.

0ur middle east correspondent, yolande knell, is in jerusalem for us now. iam standing i am standing here on the mount of 0lives which is where trent williams began the final day of his historic middle east tour because you have this amazing view of the old city of jerusalem. —— prince william began his tour. he has been to the western wall, the holiest site wherejews can pray and right now he's at the church of holy sepulchre which for many christians is the place where jesus was crucified and buried. here there was a special visit for him because he went to the church of mary magdalen which was where his own great—grandmother, princess alice of greece, is buried and her name has come up a lot as she is recognised in the holocaust museum is being on the list of the

righteous among the nations, someone who hit a jewish family in nazi occupied athens in the second world war at great risk to herself and prince william has been hearing a lot about her and he will be able to talk to his grandfather, prince philip, when he goes back, about his visit to his mother's tomb. and this was a visit at the request ofa and this was a visit at the request of a british government, the first ama of a british government, the first am a member of the family had visited israel and the palestinian territories. how would you sum up its significance? it is extremely significant. israel waited 70 years for a british official royal visit and the prince has met political leaders on both sides. palestinians we re leaders on both sides. palestinians were pleased to receive them and felt they were able to show him their side of the story particularly when he went to a refugee camp just outside ramallah. but it is

envisaged that is not supposed to be political. —— a visit. there have been a greater diversity of people he has met then you would get with a politician coming four example and he has met young people, people shaping the future, the palace says. he has got some experience of culture, tasting local food he has got some experience of culture, tasting localfood and hanging out with isabel's eurovision song contest winner and going to the beachin song contest winner and going to the beach in tel aviv to see the surfers. he went round kiosks with local food and watched traditional dancing. it has been extremely eye opening for the prince and we were told he came here to learn and he has met a very wide range of people and will have a lot to go away from here with. thank you very much. it's been described as the worst moorland fire in living memory and, this morning, we were told it could take weeks to put out. around 100 soldiers from the royal regiment of scotland were sent overnight to join firefighters trying to contain a vast fire sweeping across moorland in greater manchester. this morning, officials told us more

about the operation, which could be a long one. so we've got members of four scots who deployed last night from their barracks up at catterick. they are deploying into the local area. they are preparing now to be trained by the fire and rescue staff to come in and support them. we've got 100 troops deploying and they will come down in packets of 30 and they are going to be supporting fire and rescue. from our own point of view, this is really important because this shows some of the training that we've done, we rise to the challenge with our partner agencies to support them, as and when they require it. the ongoing safety message i'd suggest for the public are, be aware of the environment, it's very still at the moment but we did see an increase later on in the day yesterday with regards to the quantity and quality of the smoke that came. so please keep an eye on the conditions. we'll do as much as we can to get early warnings out if we see an increase.

check on local residents, try and leave access routes to moorland and lanes free for emergency services. check the news. we have not seen an indication of any rain coming within the next couple of days/weeks so we can see this being prolonged for days, if not weeks. particularly with the fact of the wind has drawn the fires towards the residential, but actually away from the centre of the moor. we only need a change in wind direction to then see that fire increasing into where the greater fuel source is. so we could see a dramatic change and that's why having these resources on scene immediately ready and the support of the armed services, is extremely important. brenda warrington is the leader of tameside council. she's in dukinfield, a few miles away from the fire. how would you assess the operation from the fire services? they have

been magnificent and i have to say. they have had tremendous support from the police and of course our council officers but we are very pleased with how they have responded so far. of course we are also very pleased that they have some support now from the army and we think possibly the air force as well but we re possibly the air force as well but were not sure about that at the moment but it is good news. how worried are you from a council point of view that this could go on for days if not weeks according to what we heard this morning? yes, we have anticipated that the fire on the moorland itself could continue to burn for quite some days. one of the particular areas of concern we had of course was for the residents and the property in the area of calico cricket up in carrbrook. that has been the council focus —— calico

crescent. that led to an evacuation on tuesday night but now we are quite satisfied that the firefighters have told us that the area is safe. they have contained the fire and it is well under control in that immediate area and there is no further problems as far as they are concerned to residents and property. but we will of course be keeping that fully monitored. that could change depending on the wind direction? yes, it could. we will keep it monitored and should we need to re—engage in that immediate area then of course we are ready to do so in an instant really if necessary. but the fire experts are telling us that the moorland in that area has burnt out. it is unlikely to be able to burn again if you like. i'm nota to be able to burn again if you like. i'm not a technical expert

honoured. that makes sense, absolutely. -- expert on it. after worries for residents about their property, people have been concerned about the air quality and the effects of breathing in smoke so how are they coping? we have been concerned about that from day one. we have had constant air monitoring equipment in the area. it has fluctuated a little all stop masks have been provided to residents with concerns. but as it stands, with the conditions, it is under control but we do have a number of monitors in the homes of residents that have volunteered to help us. what will happen is that the monitors will remain there until such time as we are all satisfied and we are guided by the fire and rescue service, that the fire is completely and utterly out. they will remain there for as

long as it takes. if we need to involve public health england in that, obviously we will do so. they have been alerted to the situation so clearly, if it becomes an issue, we are ready and we have the emergency strategy is ready to put into operation should it be necessary but at the moment we happy it is under control. thank you very much for talking to us. brenda warrington who is the leader of tameside council. thank you for your m essa g es tameside council. thank you for your messages about the online game doki doki literature club. james says that it doki literature club. james says thatitis doki literature club. james says that it is not aimed at children, the style is commonplace in the far east and increasingly in the uk, a growing format of the news to tell aduu growing format of the news to tell adult stories full submitted an exceptionally clever horror game and warns young people to avoid it but the point is that it is not the fort of games when, having worked in against weaker, i have actively seen pa rents against weaker, i have actively seen parents buying their children adult

games not suitable for them. the response ability lies with the pa rent response ability lies with the parent who should monitor the media consumed by the children, not the retailer who did not intend to sell it to them. this says, why would any games producer want to create a game where young people kill themselves? it points to a sick mind plus some of the graphics of the girls are a sensual nature. this message on facebook says these so—called games brainwash children. my wife works in a home for children with issues and she says with the best things they happen is to ban these games as the children appeared to be more violent after watching them. angela has e—mailed, the most horrific thing about this is that it was even conceived. what sick people would think anybody would want to play these awful games? leslie says, i think it should be understood that most kids would have greater knowledge around computers and ta blets knowledge around computers and tablets and phones and will be able to get around the restrictions

pa rents to get around the restrictions parents put on. not if you have a good pin code! a lot of parents do not care what their children are watching as long as they don't bother them and many to have free access to the internet, so saying something is not suitable for children makes it more attractive to them. coming up... milly dowler would have celebrated her 30th birthday this week. we will talk to her sister, gemma, who said that after years of emotional pain and trauma for the family there is a chance for happiness for them in the future. england face belgium tonight in theirfinal group game, and with both teams currently on two wins from two, the result will determine who finishes top of the group with a possible easier route to the final. idid say i did say final! and while the whole england team has been praised for their performances so far, one man has stolen all the headlines. harry kane.

he already has five goals in two games including that 91st minute winner in the first match against tunisia and a hat—trick in their victory over panama. unlike previous england captains — like david beckham or wayne rooney — harry kane is a bit less of a household name, so here are ten things you need to know about the england captain. firstly, he's from walthamstow, in north—east london, and was born in the same hospital as david beckham — aptly named whipps cross. two, he's a tottenham fan, but actually started out at arsenal, at the age of eight. their academy turned him down, which is why he's always happy to score against them. three, he scored on his first ever professional debut, but for leyton orient, on loan. he also appeared on loan for millwall, leicester and norwich. five, his weirdest spurs game was possibly against asteras tripoli, when he scored a hat—trick, went in goal when hugo lloris was sent off and let in a howler.

harry kane's fiancee is his childhood sweetheart, katie goodland. she's heavily pregnant with their second child. many people are hoping there are no early arrivals. fact seven is, his brother is often mistaken for him, but we're not quite sure how. he's a massive american sports fan, especially basketball, and spends a lot of time watching it. and finally, he absolutely loves dogs — all dogs. but especially these two, brady and wilson. let's speak now to ian marshall, who is chair of ridgeway rovers, harry kane s boyhood club. hello. and mike leigh, host of the spursshow.net podcast. he follows harry kane's career closely. yes, i have, good morning. good

morning, it is nice to see you both. harry kane came through ridgeway rovers as a young boy. what kind of a talent was he back then? when he was younger, he first turned up when he was younger, he first turned up and he went in goal. we thought he was a goalkeeper. we were put right originally shortly after that first training session. he was about seven or eight years old. he sort of went on pitch and started playing and shortly after, he got picked up by academies. he got picked up from your place by an arsenal scout who spent a year at their clubs academy before being released. lot of people, that might be the end of it because that is quite a big deal, playing for arsenal for because that is quite a big deal, playing for arsenalfor a because that is quite a big deal, playing for arsenal for a year and they drop you, they release you. what happened after that? he came back to the club for a while. he went to spurs and they let him go as well. after a while. he went to watford. he played against spurs in a game and scored a hat—trick and

spurs realised they may have made a mistake and re—signed him shortly afterwards. the rest is as you know it. at bet the number of people don't realise that while at spurs, and your old manager tim sherwood, he was sent out on loan to all sorts of places. leyton orient, millwall, leicester city, never quite did it. nobody saw this happening, nobody saw it and nobody people in the club. and spurs sold gareth bale, we bought loads of players, and a striker called roberto soldado from spain who the fans liked but didn't do it. it was almost a necessity they had to play harry kane because we we re they had to play harry kane because we were not scoring. it was a relu cta nt we were not scoring. it was a reluctant introduction to the team and played in the europa league and scored and the fans are going, you have to play him in the premier league, he is scoring goals, and that was it. under mauricio pochettino, he has found another father figure who is the best and we

see that on the pitch. when i lead articles about harry kane, they talk about his work ethic, he practices and he is the last one in after coaching. is that true and is that why he barely misses? yes, he is just a consummate professional. you can bea just a consummate professional. you can be a consummate professional and not be the last on the training pitch every day. i big you should be, he practices and practices, it is like a tunnel vision. it is like a throwback to the 19505. he looks like it, his hairand hi5 a throwback to the 19505. he looks like it, his hairand his work, different to a lot of modern players with 5illy haircut5 and a lot of tattoos. he is completely different to that. in terms of the boys at ridgeway rovers, it is notjust harry kane who has come through. no, david beckham came through was, another england captain, he came through early in his career. andros townsend, charlie daniels, dwight gayle, jordaan anouk vetter. paul

hay, from whickham. is there always a buzz around your place? there must be. parents must turn up thinking, my kid is going to be the next england captain! there might be a bit of that, some parents do think like that. but we're getting to that point where we're putting boys and some goals into the academy. getting back to where we were. but things are going well. my phone has not stopped drinking. it has been absolutely crazy which, as far as the club is concerned, is fantastic —— bringing. the club is concerned, is fantastic -- bringing. how worried are you off as will come pouring in to buy harry kane after this world cup?m as will come pouring in to buy harry kane after this world cup? it is alway5 kane after this world cup? it is always a worry and bank card for daniel levy the chairman, he signed a six—year contract before the world cup. but he's spur5 through and

through, he loves the club, moving into £850 million is 5taging, tottenham. they are in the champions league, the only london club in the champions league next season, the top scorer the last three seasons and now the six highest goal—scorer of all time and i think he wants to beat the jimmy greaves record of the early 19605. beat the jimmy greaves record of the early 1960s. how many goals? thanks for that! 266. i must ask you about where you want in winter finishing this group? if england finished up, they get through the round of 16, colombia, japan or senegal and they play either brazil or mexico in the quarterfinal. if they come second, it is switzerland or sweden in a quarterfinal. which is much kinder. it is, but like most women fans, we have been there before. i would rather play on paper a better team —— like most england teams. knowing

england, switzerland is a typical country we could lose two.” england, switzerland is a typical country we could lose two. i think if you've think too far ahead, you usually get let down. deal with belgium and move onto the next game, we progressed to the 16 and one game ata time we progressed to the 16 and one game at a time and keep winning. you are so sensible! thank you. this message says, i think the game should not be played safe, we should go for a win and be top of the group. this would give more confidence and extra momentum, we should not be afraid of playing any team to do well during this world cup. v says, i don't believe in momentum, and would prefer believe in momentum, and would p refer to believe in momentum, and would prefer to finish second because this is the best way to try to win but it might engender beer in our team because we would avoid playing teams in the other half of the draw so i wa nt in the other half of the draw so i want is to reluctantly try to win the game. he got there in the end! thank you for coming in. all this week, the grenfell inquiry has been hearing testimony from the firefighter who led the initial response to the blaze. michael dowden was the watch manager from north kensington station,

and was incident commander for the first hour after the fire broke out. recalling the night, michael dowden said he had "never seen anything" like it before and had "no previous knowledge" to help his decision—making. the hearing had to be suspended on tuesday because he was overcome with emotion. the london fire brigade has come under scrutiny for implementing the ‘stay—put‘ policy, which meant residents remained in their homes as the building erupted in flames, but following his appearance, firefighters across the country took to social media to express their sympathy and support, including his sister, jane, who tweeted: "the bravest man i know and so very proud to call him my brother." let's speak now to lucy masoud, from the fire brigades union, and to david neita, from bme lawyers4g re nfell. and to somebody who lost six members of his family in the fire. thank you

very much for coming. lucie. mr dowden said that, "after about 20 minutes, i could see that something had failed, to make the fire react as it did. when i saw grenfell tower behaving like this, i was quickly outside my comfort zone, and was trying to make decisions that i have not made before." how would you react to that? i think michael dowden is a brave and honourable man and he was placed in an impossible situation on that night dealing with an unprecedented fire, the biggest post—warfire night dealing with an unprecedented fire, the biggest post—war fire with the largest loss of life. his actions and those of the other firefighters and control workers should be applauded. since he has given evidence, the fire brigades union have received thousands of m essa g es of union have received thousands of messages of support for him thanking him for his work and i was at the inquiry yesterday when he concluded his evidence and i had a number of relatives of the victim is saying, please pass on our thanks and

appreciation to him. he is a good man and he did everything he could. he could not have done more. you lost six members of your family. do you, having heard what michael dowden said this week, do you believe he did everything he could? good morning. first of all, the first thing i would say is, he should not have been put in that situation. why? because of his experience. i believe the support was not given to him. bearing in mind this was one of the biggest buyers in london. i don't believe he was supported by his higher officials. from the management point officials. from the management point of view. ranking officers. i believe decisions could have been made quicker. but he should never have

beenin quicker. but he should never have been in charge, effectively, after what you have heard this week? i'm saying he should not have been put in this position. a more higher senior ranking officer should have been implementing. is that fair? michael has been described in the press as chief fire officer and a senior officer, he is not, he is a watch manager, a junior officer senior officer, he is not, he is a watch manager, ajunior officer in charge of two fire engines. he was in an impossible position. we need to not really looked at his actions on the night first, we should be looking at why he was put in that situation in the first place, why was that building covered inflammable cladding? i am my union think that the inquiry is almost back to front. rather than looking at the actions of what took place on the night, we should first look at what led up to the buyer, who put the flammable cladding on, why was a building that a safe until it was refurbished two years ago, why did

that happen? those questions will be answered. we should look at it now. david, is that fair, the inquiry is going about this the wrong way round? yes, they would agree. i think the whole society should not have been put in that position. the residents of grenfell should not have been put in that position. and it was needless and it was preventable. and we see that, who can forget the emergency call to the emergency services of the person calling and dying because of compartmentalised asian?” calling and dying because of compartmentalised asian? i want to concentrate on the evidence of michael dowden, if i may. what you learn from what he said? that report tells us, in the consciousness of

everybody is tower buildings, tower blocks don't always have compartments so that should be in the consciousness of the nation and the consciousness of the nation and the fire service. by putting somebody in experienced in that situation is a fear to the fire brigade and also to the people because for such a tall building, for every block, there is a novel level of risk. —— another level. this isjust really preventable if the knowledge of what happened had been fermented by the government and the reports and recommendations implemented, we could have avoided this. -- had been implemented. what happened at grenfell was a systematic failure in the system. during the times of the refurbishment, london fire brigade

and michael dowden was one of them, or sent to grenfell tower to look for certain things during the refurbishment, of which he didn't check. one of them was the cladding. and it is in their policy to check for that sort of stuff. and how did you react when you heard that at the inquiry this week? i was extremely disappointed the checks they should have checked were not implemented on that day or even followed up afterwards. we were told that he did visit the gym. we were told that he did visit the smoke ventilation syste m did visit the smoke ventilation system or room. if i am correct. they did not visit the fire exit. they did not visit the fire exit. they were aware i believe whether dry riser was, if i am correct. they did not visit the roof. these are

basic stuff they should have been checking. is that fair? i would say we do not have a policy on cladding in the london fire brigade. michael dowden is an experienced officer and a brave officer. michael dowden did not put flammable cladding on that building. michael dowden was not responsible for installing combustible windows in that building, he was not responsible for the installation of fire doors not fit for purpose. all of which is true but he is responsible for checking the building. it is not his responsibility to check for cladding, we do not have a policy for that. i think the actions on that night speak for themselves. we we re that night speak for themselves. we were talking about before the fire. during the refurbishment is. were talking about before the fire. during the refurbishment ism were talking about before the fire. during the refurbishment is. it is not his responsibility to check for cladding, he did the checks that needed to be done as per the policy and he has been open and honest at the inquiry. the messages of support from around the country and

firefighters and from across the world and relatives of the bereaved, there are many more people who have to a nswer there are many more people who have to answer serious questions, not michael dowden. a final point, you have a concerned about asbestos in the area and children. explain what that is. about asbestos in the area and children. explain what that ism about asbestos in the area and children. explain what that is. if! can refer to some notes i have made. yes, you can. yesterday i was approached by somebody from kensington aldridge academy. that is basically the school opposite g re nfell tower. basically the school opposite grenfell tower. there basically the school opposite gre nfell tower. there are basically the school opposite grenfell tower. there are concerns with regards to asbestos in the school or the outer area of the school. the school is due to have a meeting on the 3rd ofjuly in terms of... whether they are going to be

coming back, the children, because at the moment they are positioned in another school. parents have requested through the school, i believe, for reports to prove the school is safe and free from asbestos and until today they have not been given those reports. there has been a comment by somebody from public health england to say that the school, the air quality in the school is as friendly as a current ina school is as friendly as a current in a scone which i find unbelievable. these are the challenges i was referring to that people in the community are having to challenge the local authority, unnecessary challenges. we are going to leave it there but thank you all for coming on the programme. we will

have the latest news and sport in just a moment but first a weather update. good morning. for the third day in a row it was the hottest day of the year yesterday, 32 celsius in porthmadog in north wales. today, in parts of northern ireland and scotla nd parts of northern ireland and scotland it could be hotter than yesterday. a beautiful start, a lot of sunshine in the highlands. not sunshine everywhere you can see some low cloud and missed in central and south—eastern areas this morning but that will burn back to the cost. as you can see in london it was a great start but gradually it will brighten up start but gradually it will brighten up —— start but gradually it will brighten up -- grey start but gradually it will brighten up —— grey start. it will stay cloudy on yorkshire and lincolnshire and norfolk and temperatures will be and norfolk and temperatures will be a bit lower. elsewhere the heat will build up again and the highest

temperatures will be around northern and western areas. in northern ireland some places could reach above 30 celsius. if we go above 30.8 degrees, that could be a record temperature in northern ireland. elsewhere across scotland, 30, 31 in western areas, mostly in the mid and high 20s. overnight, the more cloud in western scotland and the northern isles and on the north sea coast and that will move inland like we have seen that will move inland like we have seenin that will move inland like we have seen in the past couple of mornings and temperatures around 9—13d. the cloud could stick around coastal areas but it'll clear away inland and there will be some sunshine and you can see it. it pressure on the coasts of the north sea but the heat more in the west where again the temperatures will be the in —— in the mid to high 20s, maybe not quite

as hot in northern ireland and western scotland compared to today. at the weekend, still high—pressure drifting towards scandinavia and that means it will be a bit fresher in scotland and northern ireland and the far north of england but on saturday, more clear skies and sunshine and temperatures for many still in the mid to high 20s. through the weekend into next week, some showers drifting out of the bay of biscay and some of those could clip the south—west of the uk next week but merely the outlook into thursday, northern parts dry with sunny spells, temperatures in the low to mid 20s but in the south is the temperatures will stay in the mid to high. hello, it's thursday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. "the worst moorland fire in living memory" — firefighters say they're still battling the blaze

in greater manchester which is spread over seven square miles. around 100 soldiers and an raf chinook helicopter are being sent in to help. the scale of this is such that actually getting firefighters to where they need to be, getting water to where it needs to be, has been a massive challenge and in some cases at the start of the week firefighters were walking for up to two miles in full equipment to get to where they needed to be. we'll get the latest from the scene. also, this week milly dowler would have turned 30. we”ll talk live to her sister gemma dowler, who says after years of trauma and grief for their family, there is now a chance of happiness for them all. plus — have you booked a hotel room, after a booking website warned you there was just one room left? we'll hear what action is being taken to stop sites using tricks like this to pressure you into spending money. good morning, it's ten o'clock. here's annita is in the bbc newsroom

with a summary of the day's news. thank you, good morning. the armed forces have been deployed to help firefighters who are battling to contain a vast fire sweeping across moorland in greater manchester. around 100 soldiers from the royal regiment of scotland were sent overnight tojoin firefighters. the armed forces have been deployed to help firefighters who are battling to contain a vast fire sweeping across moorland in greater manchester. around 100 soldiers from the royal regiment of scotland were sent overnight tojoin firefighters. an raf helicopter has also been deployed to help put out six separate pockets of flames that cover around seven miles of moorland. brenda warrington is the leader of tameside council. she told us their primary focus has been protecting residents and their properties. we will look to make sure that the residents have been safe. of course that led to an evacuation on tuesday night but now we are quite satisfied that the firefighters have told us that the area is safe. they have contained the fire and it is well under control in that immediate area and there is no further problems as far as they are concerned to residents and property. but we will of course be keeping that fully monitored.

theresa may has been warned that time is running out to secure a brexit deal, as she prepares to join other european union leaders at a summit in brussels this afternoon. significant steps in the negotiations were expected to have been made at the meeting. but the irish prime minister, leo varadkar, has described the lack of progress as "disappointing". prince william concludes his tour of the middle east today with a trip to historical and religious sites in eastjerusalem. here, the duke of cambridge is seen arriving at the church of the holy sepulchre injerusalem. earlier, he climbed up the mount of 0lives, a mountain ridge adjacent tojerusalem's old city. he is also due to visit the garden of gethsemane. yesterday he met palestinian president mahmoud abbas in the occupied west bank. universities are being told to "dramatically improve" support for students with mental health issues. the government is announcing it will award a certificate of excellence to institutions which meet new standards

of mental health care. it also wants universities to give students an opt—in service which will allow vice—chancellors to contact parents if needed. it is in universities' interest, if you take care of the pastoral side and the well—being and mental health of students, they are more likely to complete their course. they are more likely to complete their course and be successful. to not do so would be to risk failing a generation of students. it takes about ten years to train a gp but the creators of a new artificial intelligence ‘chatbot‘ say the algorithm they have created is more effective than a medic‘s expertise when it comes to diagnosing patients. their claims have sparked a row with british doctors who say an app can never replace a real, human medical expert and at 11:30 on the bbc news channel we'll be discussing the latest report produced for the bbc about the nhs, today looking at technology. what do you want to know about how technology will change the nhs? send in your questions to #bbcaskthis, text 61124 or email askthis@bbc.co.uk.

that's a summary of the latest bbc news. more at 10:30. thank you also to this just to thisjust in to this just in from the parliament intelligent and security committee, releasing a report that suggests the uk tolerated inexcusable treatment of detainees by the us during the so—called war on terror following the 911 attacks. those are members of the intelligence and security committee who have found that this country tolerated inexcusable treatment of detainees by america in the so—called war on terror that followed the 9/11 attacks in 2001. we will have more on that through the programme of course. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtage victorialive

and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. this is from someone who said that it is arrogant to assume england will have an easier passage if they finish running up, beating tunisia and anorak is no barometer of their chances. —— and panama. let's get some sport now. sarah is at the bbc sport centre. i think most of us and all of germany are coming to terms with the fa ct germany are coming to terms with the fact the defending champions are out to the world cup, on their way home after the earliest exit in 80 years after the earliest exit in 80 years after losing 2—0 to south korea. they considered twice in injury time as they pressed for a goal that would have sent them through with kim young—gwon scoring the first four south korea, eventually confirmed by var and then goalkeeper manuel neuer was completely out of position and led to son heung—min capping in and delight four south

korea even though they were going out. with germany losing it means sweden are through as group f winners after their 3—0 ‘s win over mexico who go through as runners up. despite mexico losing, this was inside the stadium with both sets of fa ns inside the stadium with both sets of fansjoin together to inside the stadium with both sets of fans join together to celebrate knocking out the reigning champions. i love that. and outside, mexican fa ns i love that. and outside, mexican fans found a south korean journalist to lift up high! south korea going home but still some fun to be had. no such problems for brazil who cruised through to the last 16 with a 2—0 win over cibicki top group eads and will now face mexico next. it was paulinho who put them in front —— over serbia and they top group e. brazil seem to be moving through the gears in the tournament

as their second came from thiago silva from a corner. switzerland go through as runners up after they drew with costa rica. we heard the view of one fandom is it better to lose to belgium later? that is the question many are asking but i wonder if that is what the managers are thinking because both england and belgium are already through to the last 16 and the only thing to decide is who wins the group later decide is who wins the group later in kaliningrad. decide is who wins the group later decide is who wins the group later in kaliningrad. many decide is who wins the group later decide is who wins the group later in kaliningrad. many think decide is who wins the group later decide is who wins the group later in kaliningrad. many think it decide is who wins the group later decide is who wins the group later in kaliningrad. many think it would be better to go through as runners up be better to go through as runners up because they would face the winner of group h,japan, up because they would face the winner of group h, japan, senegal or colombia, and possibly a quarterfinal with sweden or switzerland. if england win, it could set up a possible quarterfinal with brazil but they would first need to get there and we have seen what has happened to other big teams in this tournament so surely it has to be about a good performance. andy murray says there is no risk to his fitness if he decides to play at wimbledon next week. the two—time

champion was beaten by fellow brit kyle edmund in the second round of eastbourne. he said he will probably make a decision on wimbledon before the draw is made on friday. johanna konta's final tournament before wimbledon has come to an end as she was beaten at eastbourne i was number two caroline wozniacki in their third—round match and finally england have continued their domination of australia in the cricket winning the t20 international in birmingham, scoring a mammoth total of 225—5, the second in their history. and although australia put up a valiant fight, england rarely looked like losing. that is all the sport for now. thank you. this week, milly dowler would have turned 30. aged 13 in 2002, she was kidnapped on her way home from school in walton—on—thames in surrey. serial killer levi bellfield

was found guilty of her murder and given a whole—life prison sentence in june 2011. in a moment, we'll talk to gemma dowler, milly's big sister, about their family life before she went missing, the police investigation and years later the subsequent trial. first, a reminder of back then. and milly is in the lounge. she's ironing... amanda dowler, better known as milly, was 13. she went missing in march 2002. she'd been to school, then went home with friends, stopping at a cafe for chips at walton—on—thames station. the journey home was a short walk, but she never made it. a nationwide search was launched. someone, somewhere, must know something. we just desperately need your help. but it would be six months before milly's body was found in woods in hampshire.

progress of the murder investigation was slow. and the police were criticised. but it was another eight years before milly's killer was found. levi bellfield, a nightclub doorman, was charged with the murder of milly dowler. he was already in prison for two murders and an attempted murder. surrey police had said for two years that he was the main suspect in the milly dowler case. the following year, bellfield was convicted of her murder. he'll never be released from prison. the trial has been a truly horrifying ordeal for my family. during our questioning, my wife and i both felt as if we were on trial. for a mother to bury her child in any circumstances is truly agonising. but to bury your child when you know

she died in such an appallingly, awful way is terrible. but for the dowler family, who had been through so much trauma, more was to follow. milly was in the news again. it was revealed that while she was missing back in 2002, her phone had been hacked by journalists. the news of the world had run a story, found to have been based on a voice mail message left on her phone. i heard her voice and it was just like a jolt. she's picked up her voice mails, she's alive! the scandal caused public outrage and ultimately led to the closure of the paper. milly's sister gemma's book about her family's experiences has now been released in paperback.

this week would have been milly's 30th birthday. she was the best sister anyone could ask for. she was a shoulder to cry on, a fashion guru, a person who could make you laugh, even when you felt sad. milly's big sister, gemma is here. good morning, thank you so much for coming on our programme. it was milly s 30th birthday on monday. how did you and yourfamily mark it? we went to a beach we went to when we we re we went to a beach we went to when we were younger and my mum packed the carfault to we were younger and my mum packed the car fault to the rafters with everything you might need for a beach day and lovely granny came with us and we were concerned dad would... my mum brought a tad paul

ince desktop all in for my dad to sit in and i was laughing and milly thinking of is doing that. and the scene was thinking of is doing that. and the scene was calm, there was no cloud in the sky, it was the most beautiful day. i felt like we were really engaging with milly and the family for the first time. before we lost her. it was incredible. you we re lost her. it was incredible. you were 30 a couple of years ago. you had a big party. you have kindly given photographs from the party. sta rs given photographs from the party. stars was the theme. what is interesting and incredible to see is you and your mum and dad smiling. and looking happy. there is a photograph with you with your lovely granny as you call her. did you ever think you would get to a point where you could feel happy sometimes? no. i think we did achieve happiness sometimes, but the next day, you would feel so guilty whereas now, we

don't feel like that. and the ability to go to a place we used to go with milly on her birthday, to celebrate rather than commemorate, was such an achievement. and my 30th was such an achievement. and my 30th was such an incredible party, it was the first time the house was opened up the first time the house was opened up to the first time the house was opened my the first time the house was opened up to my family and friends since we last milly and mum was like, nothing is going to roost gesturing is for you, gemma, you had a hard 18th at now i am going all out. and we did a family performance and we decided to doa family performance and we decided to do a song from thejungle book and mum decided to order a wireless head microphone and was dancing around pretending to be a monkey and my dad was spinning his hat around and the room was filled with love and laughter. and happiness. and it was sparkling, it was so nice for the house to music again. in your book,

it was obviously important to you to tell people about your family life before milly disappeared. and before i asked why that was so important, you have kindly allowed us to show the video which some people will be familiar with off milly ironing but they may not have heard a thank you for your permission, is the sound. let's have a look. and milly is in the lounge, she is ironing. it is only because mum said she would do it for me. this is the first time she has ever done it. she would do it for me. this is the first time she has ever done itm is the first time, no, it it isn't. i don't even know how to do this. you had better start learning now. this is the way we buy in the genes,

eyeing the genes! oh, she is ambidextrous! she is handy! #isit ambidextrous! she is handy! # isitin ambidextrous! she is handy! # is it in his case? you captured that in the book, why was it important to tell people about the family? i think milly has become this kind of, a face of headlines and she looked really flat. i wanted to bring our family and she looked really flat. i wanted to bring ourfamily into a three—dimensional picture so you are living through it. you fall in love with our lovely family. i thought everybody had that, but what we had was so everybody had that, but what we had was so incredibly special, the fact we could take the mickey out of each other and nobody would become upset by that was so special. and you do talk about the conversations you shared with milly and the messing

about. how close we are sisters? we we re about. how close we are sisters? we were really close, about six months before she went missing, we shared a bedroom because milly decided to make me watch a scary film and she was braver. we started sharing a room and in those moments before you fall asleep, that is a lovely time to talk and she was so excited about p0p to talk and she was so excited about pop over to pop idol concerts. look at that beautiful picture of you and milly together. yes, the element of peace in that photo is something i never thought i would be able to achieve and i did not sleep soundly for yea rs achieve and i did not sleep soundly for years and the safety that we had as children i took for granted. i have definitely built it back up now. is this book the truth? yes, it is the whole truth. and it was really important that it came across as, at you are living through my life, some of my friends and family have said, i feel i am

life, some of my friends and family have said, ifeel i am reading life, some of my friends and family have said, i feel i am reading a personal diary. that is how i wanted it to come across. many people won't realise just how utterly slow surrey police were. in the hours, in the days after milly went missing. could you give our audience some insight into that? in the days afterwards, it was a complete roller coasters. we were not just it was a complete roller coasters. we were notjust managing on a minute by minute basis, we werejust so minute by minute basis, we werejust so desperate to do something, i was desperate to help with the search. i don't know, just do something. but there was no search early on because they were fixated on that somebody had either that she had run away with somebody she met on the internet. yes, unfortunately, that is the first line used. they said about the runaway girl. but i was adamant, i knew as soon as she

didn't return home that night, there is no way milly would have run away. and how did you cope as a family when your father was a suspect for a period? that was really, really hard. at the start of the book, we paint how we were and we were such a close family. to have the police make those accusations was absolutely shocking to me and i found that really soul destroying. what was the consequence of the police acting so slowly? that he went on to murder two other girls and to attempt to murder another girl. when you reflect on that, what do you think? i think that, i don't really wa nt do you think? i think that, i don't really want to spend my time thinking about being angry at surrey police because i was angry. many yea rs police because i was angry. many years and now we are trying to bring back hope and focus on the future.” have a statement from surrey police,

they say the murder of milly dowler has been a lengthy, complex and high profile investigation. the force has apologised for the impact the investigation has had on the family and continues to have on them. it was then nine years before levi bellfield was to be convicted and you say in the book that was your worst day. why? i think the whole process of the criminal trial was so waited towards him. hearing that he had been given access to some of the stuff found in our house and the notes milly had and drawings and things like that so he could potentially touch something she had touched was so awful. and we will not prepared for that. and we were not prepared for that. and we were not prepared for the length they would go to when questioning my mum and it was just he could do whatever he wanted and we just had to sit down and do what we were told. and that was really hard. and you

described in great detail the effect on your mum and dad are being questioned by bellfield's qc. can you tell us about that effect?” questioned by bellfield's qc. can you tell us about that effect? i had not given evidence, i was due to give evidence after my mum and dad andi give evidence after my mum and dad and i had not seen the interviews or questioning. and so i was completely unaware until my mum left the court and when she left, i was waiting to go next and she was screaming. an officer was holding her because... i was like, what has happened, what is going on? this is supposed to be a court room and they are supposed to protect us, what has happened in there? alongside the press coming out as well. i went to, but my mum andi out as well. i went to, but my mum and i could not because i have not given evidence. it started me off and my dad was like, who do we go

to? he had to go with my mum. it was so scary to? he had to go with my mum. it was so scary and another example of these people are supposed to be looking after us and we are not the ones who have done anything wrong here and yet my mum, the way she left was absolutely shocking. the way you are treated in that trial which, as you say, made you feel like criminals, it led to an outcry about the way victims families are treated. do you think enough has changed as a result of what your family went through? i'm not sure whether enough has changed but i don't really want to start that crusade. i hope that anyone that is involved in the legal system or in cases like that can potentially read the book and learn from it and just be honest with the family about what is going to happen and how much it is going to happen and how much it is waited towards the murderer. weeks before the trial began, you

had to cope with the fact that you learned that milly's bone had been hacked when she was missing, what impact that have on your family? -- telephone. we was unsure of what was going to happen and how long it was going to happen and how long it was going to happen and how long it was going to be. i was coming to terms with the fact i was going to be confronting milly's killer and i had heard in previous trials he had blown kisses at the sisters of the other victims so that was really at the forefront of my mind. and when we we re the forefront of my mind. and when we were told, my mum and dad were told by surrey police, i was disgusted someone had been looking at and listening to her messages. we had already invaded her privacy and ta ke had already invaded her privacy and take in everything from her room. as a sister, to give permission for them to take her diary and her drawings, that is such an invasion. and again, so many years later, but the focus was much more towards preparing for the trial. when you

met the owner of the news of the world, rupert murdoch, which you did, the paper which hacked her phone, what did you say to him?” heard he was really close to his mother and i wanted to get on a level with him. not the media tycoon, but the real manner, and say, if this had happened to your mum, heaven forbid, someone hacked her last phone call, what would you do? and he did start crying. and i was quite shocked about that. did he apologise to you and your family? yes, he did. did you accept it? at the time, yes, because my mum was in a very bad way at that stage. my dad was trying to manage both of ours and we had no support, we had no help, no therapist or anything. so we we re help, no therapist or anything. so we were both focusing on, it is my mum going to get through this day,

is gemma getting through this day? use it at the time that you did as if, had you had more time, you might not have done? i don't know, there was just a lot going on at the time. brenda in sertic says i pray the whole family can carry on living their lives and putting the evil that invaded their family behind their lives and putting the evil that invaded theirfamily behind —— in suffolk. beautiful girls and a tragic loss, god bless you all. people can read more on our website. there is a piece with you we have written and a number of people are saying, like stuart, inspiring piece. i hope the family have found peace. and to you about the kind of therapy you had and the future in a moment that i want to ask you about the settlement from rupert murdoch which was 2 million as a family and

£1 million to charities. how did you choose the charities? unfortunately we had had some personal losses, nothing on this level, but a close family friend, her dad had died of a brain tumourso we family friend, her dad had died of a brain tumour so we decided to give it to the brain gym at charity and there was a local hospice that we gave some money to as well. and a crime prevention for children's charity. and i think cancer research was the other one because we have lost our grandad to pancreatic cancer. and you have used some of the settlement money, for want of a better phrase, to fund the therapy you have needed and your mum has needed to help you to where you are today. particularly interesting is this therapy called emdr that your mum had and you tried. what is it

and white is it helped you?m mum had and you tried. what is it and white is it helped you? it is called eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing and it takes you back, you can do it with noises in your ear, but it takes you back to a traumatic event and the reassuring patting keeps your body safe so your mind can reprocess it without the fear. you're being guided by your therapist constantly but essentially you have to have a lot of determination. when i started, first had a memory of nearly which came from a dramatic event, when it had cleared it was like, oh my gosh, i do remember my sister —— a memory of milly. | do remember my sister —— a memory of milly. ijust do remember my sister —— a memory of milly. i just remember everything that happens and i lost her. you credit that to being close to her again and remember her in happy

terms like we saw in the video? definitely. if you had asked me after the trial, watching that video at the start, if i would have got to at the start, if i would have got to a point where i could watch the video, with mum's voice and nearly being silly, i would not have been able to without crying and it would have been hard for all of us to do -- milly have been hard for all of us to do —— milly being silly. we have actually brought down her saxophone from the loft and it is in pride of place with a piece of her favourite utica. and a picture of her playing. —— favourite music. it is lovely. how do you think about your and your family's future now? monday was an incredible turning point. we had this scrapbook of pictures and i think that will be one, the memories of monday, i will want to hold onto

now. the fact we can be funny and smile and laugh and we toasted milly on the beach, granny was in the sea and we went swimming and it was a beautiful day and that was all i wanted, for her to feel like milly again. thank you very much for talking to us. the book is out in paperback now, it is called my sister milly, the story of two stolen childhoods. . next on the programme. . . have you ever booked a hotel room online, on the spur of the moment, because the website tells you there's only one room left? the competition and markets authority, or cma, is examining whether booking websites are giving a false impression of room availabilty and rushing customers into making decisions. they've also called for a review of the way sites rank and display rooms. the cma did not name which sites it's been investigating. i'm nowjoined by george lusty,

senior director at the cma, alex neill, managing director of home products and services at consumer site which? , and kate nicholls, ceo of uk hospitality, which represents hoteliers. thank you for coming on. why have you not named the site? this is an early stage of the investigation and at this point we have put our detailed legal concerns to the companies and they have an opportunity to respond and will take things forward and to court proceedings if we have too. we will obviously try to resolve this group binding undertakings to get a change sooner. binding undertakings to get a change sooner. why have you not told customers? we have been listening to a huge amount of information given to us by consumers. we launched this review in october last year and many thousands of consumers have been in touch with information. we have used

our information gathering powers with the companies concerned to gather a large amount of data to look at what is going on and on the stand what lies behind the practices. so why haven't you named them? it is in accordance with our own published policy about what we do at this stage of an investigation. of course we will name the site concerned in due course when they have had a chance to go through the formal process with the cma. 0k. to go through the formal process with the cma. ok. so what are the main issues? we have been very concerned by the types of information that confront people when they are looking to book hotels or other accommodation online and some of the claims of savings could be misleading or not well founded. the issue you described about claims of there only being a certain number of there only being a certain number of rooms left we think have the potential to be misleading and they might not be true. we are also looking into how website list and rank search results because we would

assume that when something is ranked bya assume that when something is ranked by a particular order that it would be tailored to meet your needs but actually there are a number of factors including how much money and commission is paid by the hotel to the site and whether they pay their commissions on time that affect the ranking results. most people rely on those rankings when they are looking to buy a hotel room. the few think everybody knows that that hotel commission can affect ranking?” think people have become suspicious and because when they go direct sometimes to a hotel website, the price can be different as well. we have looked at this since 2016 and we have been working with the cma so it is good to see action but we have to see it resolved because it has been happening for a while and there are some bad practices that are making consumers make bad choices or rushing into something. it is practices we see in a lot of other markets as well with comparison sites and it is something, holidays are meant to be fun but it is another thing where people have to

be careful and do extra work to make sure they don't get ripped off. do you think customers know that a hotel's rankings could be based on how much commission they pay to be booking website and whether it is paid on time? no, one of the big issues they lack of transparency and thatis issues they lack of transparency and that is bad for customers and businesses, the small hoteliers who rely on their websites don't also note what the rankings are based on and have no control over where they sit and the ranking they are given by the website. it is misleading for the consumers who looked at the website and perhaps trust what they are being told and the star ratings given when often that is based on somebody to's few of what the hotel is offering. it is not clear for the hoteliers and they are being charged large amount of money to be on the sites which are vital for marketing. and you trust that when it says there is one room left, and it does have an impact when it says that, but it might not be true. and that

is totally outside of the control of the hotel. they will have lots of rooms available and different packages. the website that control the access the hotel had to the customers and at the end of the day it is the hotel is enough to interface with the customers when they turn up and had been misled. what do you think about that? they turn up and had been misled. what do you think about that7m they turn up and had been misled. what do you think about that? it is a really bad practice because that is why they do it, they know the behaviour forces you into buying something. and if you book the hotel on their website, they earn money from it. absolutely, and other practices show that they are employing these tactics that pressurise you, like drip pricing where they add on charges. the cma found evidence of that. and special offers that are not so special, we found this time of the time, it says xamount of found this time of the time, it says x amount of but that was not the case. these little tricks are to entice you to buy and think you're getting a good deal. it is human nature and we should not punish

consumers were trying to get a good deal, that is what everybody should be doing. it is unfair when businesses are doing things like this and they have to be stopped. you're good to whip them into shape? that's right, we have been gathering the data because we want to understand that these claims of savings like the daily deals or time limited offers are genuine and i'm afraid to say that some of our early work has shown they are not and prices are being artificially inflated up to give the claim of a saving afterwards. we are determined to stop this and we will use our full set of powers to bring it to an end and take these businesses to court if they do not make changes that address the concerns. good. thank you for coming on, all of you. we heard earlier that parliament's intelligence and security committee has concluded that the uk tolerated "inexcusable" treatment of detainees by the us after 9/11. the committee has published two reports this morning, after a five—year investigation into the uk s involvement in torture and detention in the so—called war on terror.

the committee has also found 198 cases in which uk security agencies received intelligence from detainees who they knew, or should have suspected, had been mistreated in prison. human rights campaigners have called for a judge—led inquiry into ‘rendition'. rendition is the practice whereby terror suspects are sent, in secret, to be interrogated in other countries. these countries often have less strict rules about treating prisoners humanely. in the last half hour, the chairman of the isc, dominc grieve mp, has been reading out the report findings. in terms of mistreatment, we have not found any evidence that united kingdom agency officers or defence intelligence personnel directly

carried out physical mistreatment of detainees. we have found evidence of uk offices making verbal threats in nine cases. we have also bound two cases in which uk personnel were party to detainee mistreatment administered by others. 0ne party to detainee mistreatment administered by others. one has been investigated by the metropolitan police but the other remains to be fully investigated. there must be a question as to whether that investigation should be reopened. we found 13 incidents where uk personnel witnessed at first hand the eight detainee being treated by others. 25 incident where detainees told uk personnel they had been mistreated by others and 128 recorded incidence of sids or m15 officers learning about instances of mistreatment from counterpart in foreign liaison services. in some cases these were investigated as they should have been but it was not consistent. we found 232 cases where

uk personnel continued to supply overseas agencies with intelligence or questions to be put to detainees after mistreatment became known or suspected. and 198 cases where uk personnel received intelligence from overseas agencies which had been obtained from detainees known to have been mistreated or in circumstances where there was no indication as to how the detainees had been treated but where we consider this a suspected mistreatment. let's speak to bella sankey, who is the deputy director of reprieve, a charity which has worked on a number of rendition cases. baroness chakra barti, labour's shadow—attorney general and former director of the campaign group liberty. and to moazzam begg, who himself was once held at guantanamo. how do you react to some of the conclusions in this report?” how do you react to some of the conclusions in this report? i had the pleasure of meeting dominic

grieve last year and speaking to him with other former guantanamo prisoners explaining to him that we felt the scope of the inquiry was still not adequate because it was not adequately independent and i don't think had the powers to follow through on things i think are crucial to this, that if people had been recognised as being involved in mistreatment and torture, then what will happen next? in the case of belhaj, there has been an apology, but there are british citizens like myself who were physically tortured and abused in the presence or in the knowledge of our own agents from britain and still we don't know what will be the process of accountability. will they say sorry? will they say, we contend believe that individuals are or how exactly what it is they have done? what i remember clearly, every single leg of the journey i was held at whether in pakistan, kandahar, guantanamo,

british intelligence agents were physically there watching as i was hooded and shackled with a gun pointed to my head, threatened with being sent to syria or egypt if i did not cooperate, the sounds of people screaming, someone i was led to believe my wife was being tortured and they all knew about all this. and as a result you have received a large above compensation. is that not an acknowledgement? no, it is not. it only happened because we went to court and in 2010 we came toa we went to court and in 2010 we came to a settlement and that was only reached after the government was forced to disclose documents which clearly showed that they had been involved in our torture. simultaneously we met with kenneth clarke and we were told that an enquiry would take place and only at the enquiry would any apology take place. let me bring in baroness chakrabarti, place. let me bring in baroness chakra barti, how do place. let me bring in baroness chakrabarti, how do you react to the fa ct chakrabarti, how do you react to the fact that this country and the last labour government tolerated inexcusable treatment of detainees

by the us? it is clearly horrifying andl by the us? it is clearly horrifying and i want to congratulate dominic grieve and his committee on doing the very best that they could with the very best that they could with the limitations and the inevitable limitations on the parliamentary committee that answers to number 10. why do you think the labour government did tolerate it?” why do you think the labour government did tolerate it? i think that it government did tolerate it? i think thatitis government did tolerate it? i think that it is pretty clear that in the days and months and years after 9/11, there was an understandable the braille atmosphere and the senior partner in the special relationship, the united states, was dabbling in these most horrific practices. and to some extent, the uk government went along for the ride. that has been clear in the past and it is clear again in one of today's two tandem reports. even more concerning the damning criticisms that dominic grieve's

committee makes about the current situation. it points to a lot of clarity even today about what ministers can and cannot authorise and the committee found ministers have different understandings of what they can and cannot authorise today and a complete lack of clarity about this practice of rendition and to what extent it is still tolerated today. bella sankey. is it still going on? the us has a rendition policy that is live and well and active and the uk, it turns out, according to one of today's reports, doesn't have a policy on rendition. so this is almost two decades after we discovered that our closest partner had an institutional practice of doing this and rendering people to places of torture with our involvement. this government, previous government still have not got their act together and given intelligence officers the desperate guidance they need. how do you respond to the fact that in 198

cases, british intelligence accepted information from detainees they should have suspected they should have known what had been tortured and in 232 cases, uk personnel continue to supply intelligence or questions after they knew they suspected mistreatment. it is absolutely appalling and one of the important point is dominic grieve and his committee makes in their report is that while in the past, i think a disease have tried to spin this narrative that these were isolated cases and we could not have built upa isolated cases and we could not have built up a picture. he says in 2002, you had enough evidence from these isolated incidents to know this was an institutional practice the us was engaged in and you should have taken action then to give our intelligence office rs action then to give our intelligence officers guidance and clear red lines about what they should and should not do. that did not happen then and it still has not happened to this day. moazzam begg, you

talked about accountability, what does that mean in practical terms? in all honesty, i want to see how far this goes. i rememberjack straw said unless we start believing in conspiracy theories, there is no evidence britain was involved in the rendition programmes. he was the friend secretary in the last labour governed. he is on record as saying this was conspiracy to conspiracy theories, i would liken to those conspiracy theories and with tony blair, who was in power at the time, he is still getting away with knowing what was taking place on his watch or he should have known. and let's not forget, torch in the context of war is a war crime and it is so serious that still, ultimately, when i say accountability, will anybody be prosecuted for his war crimes? if anybody else had done them, with big b subject to law? do you say people like tony blair and jack straw should be prosecuted for accepting

information from alleged war crimes and people being tortured? information from alleged war crimes and people being tortured7m information from alleged war crimes and people being tortured? if you are complicit in a crime, you have to bear that responsibility. it doesn't mean, if you did not pull the trigger, it doesn't mean that you were not involved in some way. you are talking about putting them on trial at the hague? essentially, yes. i want to make this crystal clear, i would not have gone to guantanamo or been tortured had it not been for the british intelligence services, i have com plete intelligence services, i have complete evidence of that and the individuals who came to my house in 1998 turned up in big and kandahar and guantanamo and i described these individuals to the metropolitan in fine detail so it is important people understand it is notjust the ordinary officers, it goes to the top. baroness chakrabarti, it want a judge led public inquiry will stop why do you need that when people who are subject to this treatment like

moazzam begg says the hague is the appropriate place. we need a judge leading quarry because dominic grieve says he was denied access to a numberof grieve says he was denied access to a number of individuals and a judge led inquiry would have the powers to call individuals in this country who worked for the agencies at the time. i think we need also to review the operations of the secret courts legislation, the justice and security act that was passed in 2013 that allows too much of this to be dealt with behind closed doors. thank you all very much for coming on the programme. moazzam begg, who was detained in cuba at guantanamo bay, baroness chakra barti. was detained in cuba at guantanamo bay, baroness chakrabarti. and deputy director of reprieve which has worked on a number of these cases. there's a warning care providers could go bust, after the government told them they had to pay their staff the minimum wage. they've been ordered to compensate the underpaid staff with six years of back pay.

it's claimed inaccurate government guidance meant thousands of overnight workers — who are allowed to sleep on their shifts — were paid less than the legal limit. analysis by the bbc shows some councils are setting aside millions of pounds to cover their cost of repaying their own staff, while the bill across the whole sector is expected to reach £400 million. let's first talk to our political reporter, phil mccann, in salford. this is about the fact the companies who employed these care workers didn't think they were legally had to pay them the minimum wage. it might sound strange, but they say the law was not clear and the government and has even admitted its previous guidance on this was potentially misleading. these carers look after very vulnerable people and they are allowed to sleep overnight but they have to stay with the people they care for and they are not allowed to leave. because of

that, recent court cases and tribunals have found they should be paid the minimum wage. something that was unclear. these care companies are saying they have been landed with this £400 million bill for six years worth of back pay while they say the guidance from the government was unclear. the government has said it is talking to the european commission about whether it can legally step in and provide funding for these companies. the company say without that funding, many could not afford to pay it and they would go bust. if anything is not worked out, those who end up losing out would be vulnerable people who need this care. cheers. now, we can talk to claire crossley, who has a 17 year old with autism. joe is on a personal budget, so they organise their own care, and could be liable for this back pay. hello. what could happen? we have not been given any answers

whatsoever. all i have been told through the campaign going on is that potentially, my sonjoseph is the employer with hmrc. i manage that account on his behalf. we do not have surplus money in our account to cover this. and there is account to cover this. and there is a legal responsibility. why would you be responsible for that back pay as someone you be responsible for that back pay as someone who you be responsible for that back pay as someone who was a you be responsible for that back pay as someone who was a recipient, at your son was a recipient of this personal care budget? it highlights some of the issues you have a direct payments and personal budgets which i will always be a strong advocate for regarding choice and control, but when you take on the role as an employer legally, you become liable for everything. the situation has highlighted how frightening this situation is. of those vulnerable people across the country. do you have any idea in approximate terms how much back pay you might be liable for? i would not even have a

clue and i could not start calculating. hundreds, thousands, what you think? potentially, because i have various rates of pay my staff so i have various rates of pay my staff so there would be differences in those calculations and some of those could be thousands of pounds that is not within that budget to pay for that. how many members of staff are we talking about? i have had a turnover which most people could appreciate in social care with the under resourcing and the low pay, it is difficult to maintain the staffing levels. i have so many employees that have not worked for me for a year or two and i would have to go back. so it really is, i have to go back. so it really is, i have no idea what that figure would be or how to start that calculation process. how are you feeling about this? it is really terrifying. because i think i'm quite capable pa re nt because i think i'm quite capable parent myself. but i know there are of former rebel people and a lot of parents especially who may have

additional needs or difficulties you don't have the answers. and at this point, i think it is important to make people aware they are not aware this is going on. if it wasn't for this is going on. if it wasn't for this campaign, i would not be aware. i requested a higher rates of paper for my local authority who gave it to me and if i had not been aware of the change in law, i would still be operating unlawfully at risk of being sued by staff. i think a lot of people at this point still have no idea they are employing people illegally and paying them unlawfully. what are you going to do next to find out about your own situation? i think there is going to be strong, says is with the local authority, mike payroll providers. their strong conversations with the local authority and my payroll providers. this issue needs to be

passed through and budgets up to one side to cover this back pay, i don't have the money and my son certainly does not. but the staff need to be paid and they should be paid. one of the proposals put together is that the proposals put together is that the budget is created within hmrc who can identify these people. thank you so much. thank you for coming on the programme. i want to end with this from mary that says, gemma, a beautiful and thoughtful young woman, milly would have beenjust as friendly and kind if she had been allowed to turn 30 and enjoyed that day at the beach this week. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. have a good day. good morning. it is more of the same for many parts of the uk. hot and sunny day. this morning, we started

with low cloud and vulnerable —— and mist, that is clearing away with blue skies. and the heat continues to build. the heat is slower across central and eastern areas. into the afternoon, a bit fresher and you can see the yellow. further west, dark orange for the highest temperatures. the record—breaking temperatures in northern ireland expected today, 31 celsius in the west of scotland and temperatures widely into the midst tie 20s and fresh along the north sea coasts. tonight, more cloud moving across central parts into the early hours of friday morning. more cloud in the far north and west of scotland. if you start the morning with mist and cloud, most of it burns back towards the coast where it is fresh tomorrow and otherwise with lots of sunshine, another hot and sunny day. soldiers arrive in greater manchester to help tackle the huge moorland fire — officials say it could last "for weeks"

we can see this being delayed for days or weeks. the german chancellor warns that migration could become a defining moment for the european union — ahead a summit of eu leaders this afternoon. 0n the final day of his tour of the middle east, prince william pays his respects at the tomb in jerusalem of his great—grandmother.