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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  June 30, 2018 4:30pm-5:00pm BST

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to haemorroid surgery will be offered to fewer people. a march in support of the nhs is under way in central london. the demonstration will be addressed byjeremy corbyn, and will celebrate the 70th anniversary of the health service. tens of thousands of people applauded military personnel at the main celebration of armed forces day in llandudno, in north wales. tata steel, which owns britain's largest steel—making plant at port talbot, has confirmed merger plans with the german industrial group, thyssenkrupp. one of the uk's largest water firms warns people to conserve supplies as it makes emergency deliveries during the heatwave. the army will extend its stay in saddleworth on the edge of manchester, to help keep control of moorland blazes which have been burning for six days. those are your headlines.
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now on bbc news, it's time for dateline. hello, and a very warm welcome to dateline london. i'm jane hill. this week, what do my guests make of the deal struck by european leaders around migration? how are relations between britain and the eu as we approach very difficult cabinet talks? and we'll discuss the direction of the us supreme court, as its longest serving justice announces his retirement. my guests: the british conservative commentator alex deane, the irish times correspondent, suzanne lynch, the guardian columnist, nesrine malik, and the american writer, and host of the frdh podcast, michael goldfarb. at the eu summit this week,
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leaders reached an agreement, of sorts, around migration — to set up secure centres in eu states for migrants, in which their asylum claims would be processed. however, these centres will be established on only a voluntary basis, and observers are already criticising the lack of detail in the plans. the french president emmanuel macron said the deal struck the right balance between responsibility and solidarity — though france is one of the countries that isn't prepared to host such centres. is there much to commend in these proposals? the first thing to say is there is a huge irony because migrant numbers are way down to more than 90% since the big crisis in 2015. this has exploded as a huge political issue on the european stage. i think that is down to domestic politics. in different countries around europe, primarily germany, where there is a proposed vote of no—confidence in angela merkel. this is the first eu
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summit with the first new italian prime minister. he dictated a lot of what happened. i think we saw european fudge on the issue. there are major questions to be asked about the new control centres for migrants. we going to look at centres within europe and hopefully they are seeing centres outside europe in africa. there are questions over what the centres will be like and how they will control migrants. there are ethical issues around that and it left everyone able to go back to a domestic audience with something to show. in central and eastern european countries like hungary, poland, but have become so anti—migrant in the last years, they were able to say this is not obligatory, so we do not have to take these migrants. we are seeing a classic eu fudge to the issue of migration. that is what we saw at the summit. was it a fad?
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for sure. the hungarians and czechs refuse to have mandatory quotas. you are right to say that the italians, with their new 5—star union, they will be extremely robust on the migration issue. they agree on being tough on migration and eurosceptics. the biggest challenge is for angela merkel internally in germany. in the uk we have heard a lot from voices within the cdu this week criticising angela merkel and harking back to her, there is no limit to the number of people we will take. her country is trying to deal with the ramifications of that. numbers coming out are down but those already here present sizeable, domestic political problems. do you echo this?
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has much been achieved or changed? this is a classic case of domestic politics getting in a way of actually effective coordination. the problem with the migrant crisis in the eu, it has become too much of a political hot potato to do anything about it across that many countries. my main concern is that the most effective actually move over the last couple of years has been to try to stem the tide in north africa and there has been a lot of funding on the part of the eu. they broke sanctions and a couple of cases to the sudanese government in particular. the carrot was come if you manage to stem migrants coming through north africa, then you will integrate more into the global community and get funds that this is hugely problematic but very effective. this was talked about in the agreement. the idea of the centres has caught the attention of everybody. there was an element of that in this agreement.
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it has been happening for a long time pulled the funding by the eu to north african countries to set up processing centres in northern africa has been happening for at least three years. it has become an established part of policy. we have posturing for optics at home. migrant numbers are down. it is not a current issue, it has now become a domestic political crisis. there is a migration crisis and a political crisis on how to deal with migrants who have already arrived. we are now trying to deal with the situation after it has been precipitated, posturing on an almost nonexistent problem. you may feel differently if you are in germany. the approach towards those who are incoming is overcompensating
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right now for trying to make people look like something is happening back home. the policy should be focused more internally than they should be externally. that is not what the policy is for. it is to say they should keep a robust defence on external migration survey can preserve the internalfreedom of movement was that this is to save something like schengen to enable the european ideal of freedom of movement between member states will do the only way to guarantee that is having tougher barriers externally. it is an interesting point. part of the problem that angela merkel faces, and it was part of the discussion and negotiation, the migrants from north africa who are coming in, you say that numbers are down. the equivalent of two of the giant cruise ships that
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mar the venice every week disgorging 10,000, 12,000 tourists into venice, that is how many have come in this year. the numbers really are quite small. once they get in, this is the schengen thing, then they drift. where did they drift? do they go when the economy is strongest? they end up often in germany. i do not think the problem... this phenomenon has not been studied enough statistically. i happen to know personally people who did coming in 2015, walking, through the balkans. they got to germany. i get pictures all the time. the germans have jobs. they do what they need to do. this is the domestic politics. if i may say, we have used the word populism a lot these days that this is not populism, it is revised ethnic nationalism. it gets a lot closer to the attitude stoked by political leaders.
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it brings to the fore dormant. do you think it is not legitimate to be concerned about migration? rather thanjust dealing with north african countries, i wait for the eu summit where the organisation of african unity has a full suit at the table to discuss this. most of the migrants are coming from sub—saharan africa or the horn of africa. when you talk of a regional settlement, it have to be well down as far as nigeria, at least, in order to begin to get some coordination and just to deter people and break up the gangs that go into the villages and say, you can go to europe, give me $10,000, and then they end up drowning in the middle of the mediterranean. it is the people smugglers who benefit in that way.
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that is an issue we have barely touched on. you will know that brexit was also discussed at the summit. donald tusk says it is the last call for britain to lay its cards on the table. theresa may has summoned her cabinet to the country retreat in chequers where they will meet to thrash out a white paper, the blueprint for the uk's future relationship with the eu. theresa may said, all sides want a quick deal. the next summit is in october. what is your take on where we are now? she got a t—shirt. she was presented with a belgian t—shirt and we lost to belgium.
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if some of the discussion about a more robust approach to migration in europe have been made prior to the brexit fogey might have a different debate about migration. migration was the priority at the summit. it was always going to be that way especially when the uk government decided to hold back its white paper. initially there was a ruling that the white paper would be released in some form prior to the summit. i am left wondering why that is. the first thing is that our national audit office says our new custom declaration services going to be ready for a no deal brexit. that is the first admission, if you like. hmrc says it can clear 95% of the remaining 5% it can do another 5% in five hours. that is a lot quicker than people were thinking. goods and services exports are at an all—time high. also where our goods
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and services, including outside the eu, more than 30% up. the government is starting to position properly as you would in a negotiation. we might go either way. we might have a deal or might not. there is a sense that when people get—together at chequers next week, it is a crisis meeting in which the hard brexiteers will fight it out with those who want to at least exit the eu some orderly fashion. if what you have been saying is exactly correct, maybe that is possible. you create a picture of things working out and the national press is saying, you have left out iain duncan smith's article in the daily mail this week. i do want to bring in suzanne in a moment.
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a very quick thought because the cabinet is divided. the british press said we would never get a stage one deal with the european union, and we got it before christmas. we got a stage two deal as well. why is the cabinet divided? no one will resign. these deals get done in the 11th hour, in the 59th minute of the 11th hour. iagree. i sat through deals at eu summit where deals get done at the 11th hour. so, one way we could look at the british government position is to say they are holding their cards close to their chest. they will have a stronger negotiation position and it will work out. we are two years on from brexit and their british cabinet and british prime minister still has not resolved internal issues in the cabinet. the eu is saying we cannot
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negotiate because we do not know what you want. we have the irony that david cameron held the referendum to resolve the eu issue and now two years on the conservative party is divided as ever. looking at specifics, the meeting at chequers, what we seem to be expecting is a proposal to keep britain in the single market for goods are not services. this is what is emerging as a possibility. a lot of european leaders said this weekend it is not a runner was maybe the europeans are playing a strong negotiation line will stop the problem is that britain will probably have to, they are not going to be giving a cart blanche and saying it is fine. there will be a problem over migration. how far is the british government in some way prepared to accept free movement? they will dress it up in some way but i cannot see the eu saying you can have something without free movement.
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i think that will be a red line. we have a very banal statement which has been true for the past few years which is that the eu is in a stronger negotiating position than the uk. the problem is, the way there has been domestic messaging on the part of the government, if we are robust enough and believe in ourselves enough, we'll be able to wrestle compromises from the eu when it is not in the interests of the us tour. ——of the eu at all. it is a sort of an arms race of statistics. we can process goods in under five seconds. the latest bank of england growth rate numbers are ex—and a whole raft of statistics from people saying it will be a disaster. there aren't too many unknown unknowns for people to say how bad it will be. i have digressed.
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the tumour is much stronger than the uk. ——the eu is much stronger than the uk. on what basis is that? just because. betterfinish a point and then we will come back. there are 27 countries. that is against one. you do not think that is a weakness and not a strength? if you could let me finish you have 27 countries are in the same organisation with the same interests. even if they do not agree individually with each other, they have to put up. it is human nature and political intelligence. they have to put up a common front because they are one party. they cannot negotiate individually with the uk against the common interests of the eu. you can obfuscate it with loads of statistics and rhetoric. it is a fact that the second point is... let's hear the second point. the second point is that the british government,
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the tory party in particular, has its own internal issues. they have a warring cabinet now in terms of meetings going on with chequers. if you want to be in a strong position to negotiate with 27 countries that outnumber you in terms of population and security alliance then you need to have a strong hand internally. i talked to michael about this earlier. every time we would say the same thing, even though the details on the ground changed. everyone is kicking that can further down the road. whatever happens in the eu negotiations, the fundamental facts remain. until the tory party gets its act together and strengthens the hand of theresa may to go and negotiate with certainty on things like the irish border, we are going to be in the same position over and again. the irish border was specifically mentioned as a key sticking point.
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jean—claude juncker did say this week, others in brussels cannot deal with a divided cabinet. that is why there is all this focus on the big cabinet meeting at the country retreat of the prime minister and that fact cannot be escaped, can it? people position for domestic purposes. people in the uk position for domestic politics not thinking squabbling assists the other side in a negotiation we are conducting. not thinking that the europeans read our press. they do so avidly. i can say it is a fact and therefore because i get to win, apparently, if i'd talk for ten minutes. the cabinet is divided. we do know that. is that not a fact? i conceded at the very start. people in the netherlands said stop beating up on the brits.
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the car manufacturing industry in germany says we need a deal with the uk. it is absurd. they are warning against it. half a million cars from germany last year. they all want to be able to export to the uk still. the reason why britain want some kind of goods single market is because europe does more trade with europe includes. with all the tension is going on, something will have to change because britain is leaving next march and that is a fact. it now falls to the british government and theresa may to get the party together. it seems she may be leaning towards a soft brexit and that is why the european union gave them a soft ride at the summit could they can see her leaning towards a soft brexit. i do not understand how people are so alive to the divisions
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on the uk side and wilfully blind to the presence of diverging interests in the eu. this is a ridiculous thing to say. you know it is. one comment from you and one comment from you. as you had conceded that there were divisions internally in the tory party, i had considered great if you had chosen to listen rather than wait for me to finish and barrel down, i had conceded that their work even if there were divisions within the eu, the way the organisation works is that individuals cannot negotiate with the uk. it is the basic structure of the eu. even if there were, let me finish, even if their work, and there are divisions internally in the eu, but they are part of the european union. once they leave, they can enact those divisions.
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bags all i meant. it was reported this morning that david davis met with michel barnier, his counterpart in the european union but he has had lots of meetings with other countries trying to do a deal here and deal there. in the end, the commission is charged by all 27, it used to be 28, to be the negotiator. just as immigration, there are all kinds of domestic political things going on in hungary and italy, in the end they get together at the summit and they come up with a unified proposal and that is how they negotiate. i am amazed you do not want to admit that is how reality works. the meeting at chequers within a few days' time so, guess what we will be discussing on this programme next week? finally this week, 81—year—old
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anthony kennedy is retiring as a us supreme courtjustice. nominated by ronald reagan, he's the longest serving justice, and has broadly sat in the centre, staying with the conservative majority on issues like campaign finance, but voting in favour of same sex marriage. president trump has said he will announce his nominee to succeed kennedy on 9thjuly. michael, this is an opportunity for trump to solidify that conservative majority. by the way, centre is a relative term when it comes to the us supreme court. he is a libertarian conservative. he votes in favour of same—sex marriage and the broadening of gay rights. based on the idea that the state has no business interfering with personal lives. he is reluctant to overturn the now infamous decision in 1973 which gave women the right to have an abortion. he is retiring.
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he has had a bit of pressure from the president to go and he will be replaced by someone who will vote to overturn that case. there are other things to talk about. the important thing to understand is this represents the single—minded success of an activist group within american society, going back to a decision in 1973 and some people on this panel were probably not born then. in 1973 this happened, and the religious right made common cause with kind of hardline tax—cutting conservatives. it actually affected their own livelihoods because they were not getting the full benefits of the tax cuts. they have pushed and pushed and pushed and they have finally got to the point where they have a president who will fulfil the campaign promise to them as he fulfilled the campaign promise to cut taxes.
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he will appoint someone who will be willing to revisit the abortion issue. it is likely he will appoint someone who is quite young, he will be there to do this. this is the single most important thing that donald trump will do during his presidency. he has an opportunity to appoint a second supreme courtjustice. this is a huge issue. a lot of republicans who were anti—trump, most of the party were until he was elected, this is the one issue why they voted for him. there was a list of 20 people saying if you vote for me i will elect a conservative pro—life justice. this is what he is doing. a lot of republicans were prepared to look aside his other failings and say, he is going to get our man into the supreme court. he has been changing the hue of the court system. it will completely inflect american society after
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he leaves the oval office. the issue of abortion is going to emerge as a major political issue in america. in america, abortion is legal at federal level but the reality is states have different powers overabortion, provision varies across the country. a lot of states will push abortion laws to its limits, seeing how far they can go. we may see a case coming before the supreme court. it is a huge issue and it reminds people this is why it is important to vote. hillary clinton, if she had gone in in 2016 we would have had two different supreme court justices. any prospect that could be an attempt not to do the confirmation hearings? they are actually rushing them. mitch mcconnell had stopped... i do not think so. i think there will be posturing by the democratic side. mitch mcconnell blocked
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the appointment of obama. he is saying we have to move it forward before the midterms in november. there is a very slight chance. republicans only have a tiny majority, a 51—50 majority. there could be pro—life republicans who could push back a bit but they will do everything they can to try to get this pass. they want the main senators to do the right thing. people have their own views on the donald trump administration. there were finalists last time who are originalists and individualists as you described. these are battle hardened and tested. they have been on this list for a couple of years. the trump administration will get the nominee through. this is a good reminder of the way that republicans have voted, right wing people have voted,
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has been to preserve or bring back a certain way of life. democrats voted in complacency. i now feel like the threat might be more clear to people on the left so that when they come to vote in the mid—term elections or the next election they will realise you are notjust switching presidents that you are switching supreme courtjudges. i will have to leave it on that note. i do hope you canjoin us next week for a very passionate dateline london. goodbye. it's been a glorious day with hardly a cloud in the sky.
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temperatures widely into the high 20s with one or two places likely to see 30. some subtle changes as we move through the night. the winds will move to a south—easterly which will drive in more humid air. more uncomfortable if you're trying to sweep across england and wales. the risk of a few sharp showers developing. in the far north west more cloud which could bring some outbreaks of rain into the western isles on sunday and may be more cloud into northern ireland. generally speaking, hot, dry and sunny with the risk of a few sharp possibly thundery downpours developing across the far south by the end of the day. humid with highs likely of 30 degrees and the dry, settled and sunny weather is set to continue in the early half ofjuly. take care. this is bbc news, i'm lukwesa burak. the headlines at 5pm. four young men have died, and a teenage girl is left
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critically ill after a collision involving a car and a taxi in leeds. i think it is fair to say that it was absolutely devastating, a really significant impact. patients in england may no longer be able to have some procedures that are deemed "ineffective or risky", including tonsil removal and haemorroid surgery. tata steel, which owns the port talbot plant, has confirmed merger plans with germany's thyssenkrupp. thousands of people have applauded military personnel at the main celebration of armed forces day in north wales. it enables us to say thank you to them and their families who support them and thank you to our veterans.
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