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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  July 25, 2018 4:30am-5:01am BST

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disaster in greece in a decade. wildfires have engulfed several towns and villages near the capital, athens. there are scenes of devastation with forests, homes and cars burnt out. at least 7a people are confirmed dead, others missing. polls have opened in pakistan's general election. front—runners are the governing party of former prime minister nawaz sharif, although he is injail for corruption, and the pti, led by cricketer—turned—politician imran khan. the support of pakistan's powerful military is likely to prove crucial. it's emerged that a dam that collapsed in laos, killing 20 people, had developed a fault the day beforehand. workers for a south korean firm helping build a hydro—power station had tried unsuccessfully to repair it. authorities were warned and launched an evacuation, but too late for some. you're up to date with the headlines.
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now on bbc news, it's hardtalk. welcomed a hardtalk with me, zeinab badawi. in august, it will be 20 yea rs badawi. in august, it will be 20 years since more than 200 people we re years since more than 200 people were killed when simultaneous bomb attacks were carried out at the us embassies in kenya and tanzania. my guess is the acclaimed filmmaker wanuri kahiu who made an award—winning film on the tragedy. the latest film depicting a lesbian love affair, however, has been banned in kenya. what does a filmmaking tells about african society today and how africans are viewed by wide audiences? wanuri kahiu, welcome to hardtalk. it is a pleasure to be here. what you get out of making films? what is the purpose? i have made my purpose afrobubblegum, the purpose of fun and frivolous films, so we can reframe africa so the pictures of ourselves are not only beautiful and
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poor ignorant but also stunningly joyous and radically hopeful. you we re joyous and radically hopeful. you were born and bred in nairobi and grow up surrounded by women, strong women who use a grow up surrounded by women, strong women who use a were grow up surrounded by women, strong women who use a were actively pursuing happiness. why do you feel it's important to reflect that kind of joyful life it's important to reflect that kind ofjoyful life in your films about africa? so often i feel that africa is not betrayed as a happy continent. not betrayed traders someplace that is glorious and thriving and wonderful that is my experience. —— it's not portrayed as. my experience of africa has been joyful and i want to add to that into cinema. it doesn't mean you are impervious to get back there is a great deal of suffering? you might be lucky, but those of us who have been to nairobi, have seen the slums and the difficulties that people are having. it's more about the balance of images. there are many images of us of images. there are many images of us suffering, and disease stricken
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and poverty stricken and war stricken and all those things but the writing of images of us as thriving individuals. so my effort is to balance the view rather than anything else. you fell in love with films as a teenager so what did your pa rents say films as a teenager so what did your parents say when you said, look, i wa nt to parents say when you said, look, i want to study film? they didn't think it was a good idea initially. sometimes i'm not sure they still do thatis sometimes i'm not sure they still do that is compensated. even now? even now. award-winning? it's a little more compensated because of the kind of films that i make that they are incredibly supportive and they made me, so this is the result of them. so when you landed an internship with universal films in the united states, you said, i learned a lot from them that i was determined to come back home and tell the kenyan story. absolutely. why did you want to tell, just the kenyan story?m is quite niche. it's bigger than
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that. initially i did want to come home and start to create my voice in kenya, i wanted home and start to create my voice in kenya, iwanted it home and start to create my voice in kenya, i wanted it to be influenced by the place i live and the people i loved, the initial thrust of that but later, it's become african stories as it lends to a broader humanity and later it's going to be more so humanity and later it's going to be more so i think it's just continuously evolving but right now, i'm very, very curious about creating, telling stories aboutjoy and especially black joy. you are using afrobubblegum, the media company you say you founded in order to do that as a vehicle. after your studies in the uk and us, that's what you established but is that the only way you felt as a black female filmmaker you could get yourfilms made, to seize the bull by the horns yourself and use your own vehicle? it's incredibly hard to be a young filmmaker and make it in los angeles. i knewi filmmaker and make it in los angeles. i knew i would have a better chance of going home and telling the stories that i want to telling the stories that i want to tell in the way that i wanted to
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tell in the way that i wanted to tell them first. and then hopefully broaden out to my audience and move into a larger space. just incredibly ha rd to into a larger space. just incredibly hard to be part of an african filmmaking generation of storytellers. your first bill was national first film was "from a whisper" which was based on the terrible twin bombings in kenya and tanzania and the us embassies on the seventh of august, 1988 so grim anniversary coming up in most of the more than 200 who were killed were victims in kenya and more than 4000 injured. why did you feel you wanted to make a film related to that event? because so often, when these events happen, people are reduced to statistics. we have numbers who were injured and numbers of people but we don't hear the stories of the emotion, smallerfamilies don't hear the stories of the emotion, smaller families were affected or smaller tragedies that happened or evenjust affected or smaller tragedies that happened or even just begin to
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understand the people who are responsible for some of the crimes we re responsible for some of the crimes were kenyan, were african, they were oui’s. were kenyan, were african, they were ours. so must be started having the story about where we are, a rift started to happen, we can't properly address the language of violence thatis address the language of violence that is so easily being used. the film is actually based on a young woman who is searching for her mother who was caught up in the blast and she is convinced she could have survived the blast. how much of it was fact and how much of it was fiction? it was mostly fiction but it was based on fact. we researched the story is he witnessed the bombing, who were secondary characters in the story and how they came into the building, what their psyche was, how they just came into the building, what their psyche was, how theyjust decided on how they used their faith to make
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decisions about their extremist measures so decisions about their extremist measures so that was factual but the story about the girl herself was fictional. how important is it to stick to facts when you are making a film that is based on true events? because a lot of filmmakers say it's very important to do that, cannot play fast and loose with the facts. i think it depends on the story. a biography, it's important to be as close to the character as possible but in this space, the space i was creating was a fictional character ina real creating was a fictional character in a real space. creating was a fictional character in a realspace. so creating was a fictional character in a real space. so i honoured the space in the reality of it but the stories that were built on top of that were completely fictional. your film won five awards at the fifth african movie academy awards but don't you want a wider audience to know about this? because it was a dreadful act of terror yet it's not have the same kind of focus,
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arguably, that similar acts elsewhere in europe and the united states have had. prudence bushell, the american ambassador in nairobi at the time, has given an interview to n ewswee k at the time, has given an interview to newsweek recently, she is written her memoirs, yet to be published, about what happened and she says, it is forgotten. yes, it is largely forgotten but that so often happens with tragedies that happen on the continent, is that we quickly move past them in news cycles and we quickly move past them regardless of the people who have been injured and need help and would need some sort of assistance. that's something that we really do need to address. assistance, i mean, as i said, around 4000 kenyans survived the blast but the lot of them died and their victims and families are still awaiting compensation. i will give you an example, lima, a former us employee says, the attack disabled me andi
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employee says, the attack disabled me and i cannot fend for myself. still waiting. emily, who lost a husband in the blast, said, i have been unable to educate and raise my children because i have no money to do so, it is a travesty and a tragedy. it's an incredible tragedy, and we need more support than ever. you feel somebody with a voice in kenya, you want to make films for a kenyan audience, do you feel you ought to try to raise awareness about this? my job was about raising awareness in the creation of the film, that was myjob in that sense. there are so many things i want to say that i can't only dwell on one issue, as tragic as the issue may be, so myjob was to create awareness of it. and we have through the film and continue to advocate in conversations like this in other spaces, to say there are people and injustices which need to be recognised and remedied. how much of the debate is there in kenya with
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this anniversary? unfortunately it's very silent, not much being said about it and i wish there was more and it's time to revisit 20 years m, and it's time to revisit 20 years in, because people are still suffering. i've given a couple of exa m ples of suffering. i've given a couple of examples of which there are numerous ones. another film you examples of which there are numerous ones. anotherfilm you made it a documentary on the life of the late of the late nobel laureate wangari maathai, for environmental activism, and also a short film you made, pumzi. do you need to throw resources find one of the other? hopefully i will direct it in my time. stories come in different forms, sometimes documentaries and sometimes fictional. myjob is to be the vessel for the story to come through and it chooses the weight comes through best but i'm so grateful for the stories i've been
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able to tell, meeting your hero in your lifetime is unimaginable and the fact that i was able to make a story about wangari maathai was truly a highlight of my career. well, your latest film, rafiki, which means "friend" in key swahili, is the first feature film to have actually been shown that shown at the time film festival, is causing you a lot of trouble. it is a coming—of—age story about two teenagers who are the daughters of two prominent politicians in kenya who fall in love and find it there identity is compromised by conservative society that looks down on lesbian love. before we talk about it, let's take a clip of the film. hi. hi. so do you want to do something? we can go and get a soda. a soda? so?
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er... cassava. cassava? thanks. this is where you hang out? i usually hang out here. what's wrong with you? what's wrong with my team? would you like to get out of it?
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just a little taste there are those who have not really seen it. so that film, rafiki, banned by the kenyan film, rafiki, banned by the kenyan film classification board because it said it had, i quote, a homosexual theme and clear intent to promote lesbianism in kenya contribute to the law and dominant values of the ca nyo ns. the law and dominant values of the canyons. did you deliberately set out to one —— upset and challenge societal norms in kenya where homosexuality is illegal and gay sex is punishable by up to 14 years in jail? no, i was is punishable by up to 14 years in jail? no, iwas fully intending is punishable by up to 14 years in jail? no, i was fully intending to reflect the society i live in and i fully intended to create a story that mature kenyan audiences can watch, can debate, can have opinions
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and decide whether or not they want to watch it. that was my goal. mature canyons, you say? so you wa nted mature canyons, you say? so you wanted a certificate of 18 foot on it? i knew it wasn't going to get anything less than an 18 rating so we really wanted an 18 rating and we really wanted an 18 rating and were incredibly disappointing when were incredibly disappointing when we didn't get one. the board statement said the decision to take the ban was referred to various stakeholders and agencies of law. did you think they took a considered decision? they took a considered decision? they took a considered decision for them but i feel like they ran counter to our constitution because our constitution actually allows us freedom of expression so i find it just allows us freedom of expression so i find itjust a challenge to think that the kenyan film classification board would push on issues that run counter to the constitution that we as the people as the republic of
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kenya voted in. you are accused of breaking the law by altering the script without permission. they say in the script that you submitted, the lead actors were portrayed as having been attacked political reasons, whereas in the film, they we re reasons, whereas in the film, they were obviously attacked for being homosexual. is that the case? i did not mislead the authorities. have a film licence that is based on the shooting script in the film license has a very clear stamp saying that they received all the versions of they received all the versions of the scripts we sent them, including the scripts we sent them, including the shooting script which was the script we ended up making into a film and editing and making the film that we had. ifeel like it is film and editing and making the film that we had. i feel like it is a film and editing and making the film that we had. ifeel like it is a bit untrue. that is your side of the argument. the controversy, some manifestations to it. another one is a spokeswoman for the kenyan film and classification board says that
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it isa and classification board says that it is a harebrained scheme by foreigners funding film producers in cannes you to promote homosexuality in the name of equality and inclusion. this will be exposed and strongly resisted. you feel there is any credence to that criticism that you are making films is somehow to western agenda? absolutely not. i think that what i feel is an african, homophobia. 0nlya phobia is an african because we, as a continent and as a country, has a lwa ys continent and as a country, has always been made up of diverse people, diverse societies and diverse cultures and some of those cultures and people have been homosexual, not just cultures and people have been homosexual, notjust now, but in the past and there is recorded history of that in many different forms. so i think to say that it is a western agenda is incorrect and also it is belittling. but you feel that your
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film does undermine the sensibilities of the kenyan people? that is what the board says. sensibilities of the kenyan people? that is what the board sayslj disagreed with the board on that side because how could it? if we are asking for the ratings that people can watch the film, that doesn't mean that when they walk out of the film they will be gay as a result of watching it, nor does it mean they are promoting in and, in the same way that they didn't oh terrorism. do you accept foreign funding is making this film? unfortunately, i have never been in that position to accept kenyan funding because they area accept kenyan funding because they are a small film economy that is still growing and that is what we are working on, working being able to prove that by making films and buy them opening in theatres, and we have a business model that we can then use to be able to say, yes pleased to kenyan funding, both robert and private. but u nfortu nately, we robert and private. but unfortunately, we were not in that position, so yes, we do get money,
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but for all films. i don't know a single kenyan feature film that has done well internationally backed has only been based on local funding. that doesn't result as the chairman of the film board says your foreign masters have ruined their countries and now they want to use a few characters to introduce the filth here in cannes you. that is his view, that is what he says. there is a sense, this perception that you might be doing the bidding of foreign funding. but what is actually more curious is that anti— homosexuality laws came in with colonialism. they were introduced in the late 1900 or stop before that, the late 1900 or stop before that, the integers african people and indigenous african people did not have laws against homosexuality. i proposed the law itself is what is foreign. but you knew that this, yet it pressed ahead. just why did you wa nt to it pressed ahead. just why did you want to make a film about gay love?
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you are not gay, you have a partner, to children. why did you feel this was an important topic that she wa nted was an important topic that she wanted to tackle? it came out of imagination, it came as a result of reading a beautiful short story that won the cannes prize in 2007. the ugandan writer. and that book was not banned. we wanted to create a story based on modern african literature, and when i started to look for stories that i wanted to tell, i started to look for a love stories and this was the most resounding love story i found at the time and this is the story i wanted to tell because more than anything they think that it is high time that we had more love stories coming out of the continent. it is about thwarted love? absolutely. i quoted the chairman of the board, but he had previously really applauded you. he described you as a goddess in a kenyan film industry. now he is
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saying these things about you. you feel that this film has dealt you a reputational blow in cannes you?” think it is very unfortunate that the head of the kenyan film classification board went out of his way to say things that i feel were rather mean—spirited and attacked my personality and my character. had he praised you pry to that? exactly. however, i do not make the films we re however, i do not make the films were him, and i didn't make the film for everybody. i made the film because it is important to be able to have a voice. that is why we are artists. we have the right to freedom of expression. if it took seven freedom of expression. if it took seve n yea rs freedom of expression. if it took seven years to make rafiki. uber caring for your children. but this man has brought a loss of sponsors for you, a loss of revenue. as it been worth it was to mark i think any film you make that you truly believe and any story that tells
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about human nature is absolutely worth it and i would never change it for anything and i have a very supportive husband, very supportive children, supportive parents and parents—in—law who know that my voice is important and who support that. for me, having that network of friends and family is the most important thing. the vice president of kenya says there is no room for 93v of kenya says there is no room for gay people in kenya. a lawyerfor the christian professional forum says we consider gay people enemies are the natural family. says we consider gay people enemies are the naturalfamily. many commonwealth african countries criminalise homosexuality. how confident are you that we will see a changing view in kenya about gay people? we are already seeing a changing view. there is currently a case in court challenging the code against homosexuality, so we are seeing changes and we know that we have, regardless of whether or not we wa nt
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have, regardless of whether or not we want to acknowledge it, there are members of the lgbtq immunity who live within the continent, who live in kenya, who live in tanzania. laws will not change the nature of the person. you could deliver an upset and become the second country after south africa on the continent to legalise gay rights?” south africa on the continent to legalise gay rights? i think that the fight currently is, yes, to say that people should not be discriminated because of their sexual orientation and the right to privacy is theirs and there the loan and the government has trying to enforce the law of knowledge against human nature. it had to disrespect the right to privacy in order to prove it. this taps into freedom of speech, and there are concerns about an erosion of freedom of speech and information in the light of highly disputed elections as we have seen in recent months. how worried are you about the issue of freedom of
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speech in kenya ? you about the issue of freedom of speech in kenya? i am extremely worried about freedom of speech and freedom of expression because it feels like there has been an onslaught against not only artists but also content that is not in keeping with what is considered the norms and values, but nobody, including the constitution, has defined what the norms and values are soi defined what the norms and values are so i don't feel it is up to individuals to make themselves the moral police, to decide on behalf of a population of people watch norms and values are. in this new law which has been signed by the president at outlaws appears on social media ostensibly, but which critics say could be exploited to repress civil liberties. is that a damaging thing that has happened now? i believe in the spirit of it, because people shouldn't be bullied in the spaces in any space that they are in. i think that the law needs to be, the bill needs to be more curtailed and it needs to be more
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specific so that it actually addresses the issues and doesn't kill all freedom of expression or freedom of speech in the process. finally, wanuri kahiu, dear blinky can change the narrative of africa toa can change the narrative of africa to a wider audience? many still believe it is a negative picture thatis believe it is a negative picture that is put out there. absolutely. i wouldn't do it if i didn't believe it. i believe we are joyful and radically hopeful people and i challenge anybody who says otherwise andi challenge anybody who says otherwise and i will continue to do it through the work that i do and through the images that we create as african people. wanuri kahiu, thank you very much for coming on hardtalk. thank you, it is such a pleasure. hello there. well, tuesday brought some significant contrast in weather conditions across the uk with the south—east of england and east anglia once again having other dry, sunny and hot day, with a top temperature of 31 degrees in suffolk. but further north and west, there was a lot more cloud around thanks to a week weather font
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with low temperatures and even patchy light rain. if you look at the satellite picture, cast your eyes out to this swirl of cloud out in the atlantic, this is a significant area of low pressure, which is going to reach our shores by the end of the week and bring some of us some significant rainfall. but back to the here and now and for the early hours of wednesday, it's looking largely dry across the board. one or two showers, though, just there for western scotland, more of a breeze too, but elsewhere, dry and a warm, muggy start particularly across south and south—eastern parts of the country. 0n into wednesday, on the whole, it's going to be a dry and brighter day for much of the uk. that sunshine up in towards parts scotland, northern ireland, just a few showers for the western isles. maybe the odd afternoon shower developing in the heat of the day across east anglia. you can see the orange colours extending further northwards and westwards. temperatures reaching the low 20s celsius through the afternoon across scotland and northern ireland. high 20s for england and wales with, again, a few locations in the south—east seeing 30 or 31 degrees.
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into thursday, i think this is the peak of the heat. the heat will be spreading north and west, in fact, a good—looking day for most, maybe an odd shower developing in the afternoon from the heat of the day. more of a breeze across northern ireland and western scotland ahead of that area of low pressure as you make inroads. but notice the red and orange colours pretty widely across england and wales. temperatures ranging from 27 to 33, 34, maybe 35 degrees somewhere in the south—east. then our area of low pressure edges ever closer for friday, sending in its weatherfront initially across western areas for northern ireland and western scotland, western parts of england and wales. ahead of it, there is going to be a cluster of heavy showers and thunderstorms which will develop. some of these could be quite intense across parts of the midlands into northern and eastern england, perhaps with some hail mixed in as well. across the south—east, it's going to be another hot one, 33, maybe 34 celsius. but turning cooler and fresher further west. during friday night into the early hours of saturday, that rain,
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line of thunderstorms pushes on into the north sea. one or two showers behind, but a slightly cooler and fresh feel to things. that is how the new weekend is shaping up slightly. cool and fresher right across the board. largely dry with some good spells of sunshine bar the odd shower but temperatures a bit more comfortable than where they have been. this is the briefing — i'm ben bland. our top story: shock and sorrow in greece after wildfires take more than seventy lives and hundreds of homes. voting in pakistan's general election gets underway — but has the army already won? and the singer—songwriter demi lovato is recovering in hospital after a suspected drug overdose. cloudy skies for ryanair — as the company faces yet more industrial action in europe. we'll assess the impact on travellers and the company. and as the president of the european commision, jean—claude juncker, flies to washington to meet donald trump, we'll look at the tensions that could tip us into a full on
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transatlantic trade war.
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