tv Dateline London BBC News August 18, 2018 11:30am-12:01pm BST
11:30 am
is london correspondent for the nation. the us journalist stryker mcguire writes for bloomberg markets. first, though, news which has broken this weekend — the death of kofi annan, who was un secretary—generalfor ten yea rs. a ghanaian by birth, he was the first man from sub—sa ha ran africa to head the organisation. having joined the un in 1962, kofi annan rose through the ranks, ending up in charge of peacekeeping operations. his two five—year terms running the un included the american—led invasion of iraq. thomas, i suppose that is probably the cause he was most frustrated by an something he ultimately felt had been an illegal act. he was not the only one frustrated by it and who thought it was an illegal act. everybody in britain has come to rue the day this was designed and run. kofi annan was a respected leader and his indefatigable work for peace is much remembered, but that includes a tragic element,
11:31 am
because how do you and each piece in the middle east, which was one of his concerns? it seems to be an endless battle ground and obviously, people from outside like the secretary general of the un seem helpless in the face of the warring factions on the ground being unable to come together. so while he was a much respected man, i don't think anyone would want to share his job of peacekeeper in the world. ned, that was how he had grown through the organisation, ending up as head of peacekeeping operations, which in itself was not without controversy, given some of the reports about the behaviour of peacekeepers. yeah. the best way of summing him up, and i did know him —— i didn't know him personally, but we share a couple of close friends and he was by all accounts a smart, sensitive and kind man, very determined. it is fair to
11:32 am
say that the limitations of some of his work, most recently trying and predictably failing to get any progress on a peace with syria or in syria, are more limitations of the institution. and that is that the un is only as effective as the member states and the geopolitical realities allow it to be. especially the member states at the very top. with the security council the way it is, it is amazing that they can do anything, ever. this is also when those post—war institutions are under attack and being dismantled more broadly. so it is almost a nostalgic moment to look back at when kofi annan came to be secretary—general. afterwards, there was the rwandan genocide and srebrenica, where he had been in charge of peacekeeping. it has been a time when the power of the un has beenin a time when the power of the un has been in decline. and it now seems to been in decline. and it now seems to be getting to a point of... he
11:33 am
a lwa ys be getting to a point of... he always struck me as a man who believed that good people with the best motivations could resolve some of the most apparently intractable problems. yet almost all of the events he ended up presiding over have appeared to go against that admirable and noble instinct. well, there was the roadblock of the geostrategic situation in the world. in the middle east, it is classical that you can't find a consensus between the major powers and the mess you have that, you are helpless, as i said. everyone who is trying to come from the outside with the best of intentions is bound to fail, almost. it's a terrible thing to say because we keep having to try in the face of the superpowers like russia and america and syria being at loggerheads. both strategic and are mutually exclusive and how the
11:34 am
un security council is at sixes and sevens, it is beyond me. to pick up ori sevens, it is beyond me. to pick up on what maria said, particularly when at a time with trump as the president of the united states, there is not only an accidental but a quite deliberate undermining of the entire post—2nd world war order of international institutions, whether it's the eu, the world trade organisation, nato as a military alliance. the mere idea of international cooperation and coalition, for all its faults, we should hope the un survives as a vehicle that can be used when it works. it is important that it is just physically there and that there are places where people can get together and talk informally and off the record. if it didn't exist... in fa ct, the record. if it didn't exist... in fact, nikki haley, who is one of the more effective members of the trump administration, although she does it
11:35 am
brashly, but she engages. it is one of the few islands where real diplomacy still happens in the american administration with other countries. it needs real debate that can be seen. you mention the united states. in any discussion about kofi annan, we talk about what the united states has been up to on the international stage. last weekend, we debated the views of the former british foreign secretary boris johnson about what some muslim women wear. but before that, let's talk about trade and the implications of all this. there are other questions over what donald trump is doing in his trade wars with turkey and syria. with turkey and particularly with china. the chinese are on their way to washington. there are going to be
11:36 am
talks in washington, stryker. is this a sign that the chinese are looking to try and sue for peace in this conflict over trade war and the use of trade sanctions? everybody wants this to be over and done with. there may be just one exception to that who is living in the white house! steve mnuchin has been highly involved in a lot of these trade negotiations. he is very much a kind of odd man out in the white house. there were a number of goldman sachs figures that came in in the beginning. he was a wholly-owned subsidiary of goldman sachs for a while! that's right, white house llp. barack obama had his fair share of goldman sachs ex—employees, but i ta ke of goldman sachs ex—employees, but i take your point. and he has been spending half his time recently on
11:37 am
this, because this is a directive thatis this, because this is a directive that is coming from the white house. yes, but he's also trying to hold back trump's worst instincts on trade. that is a difficult task. he may not last do it all, because trump is quite determined and trump has brought in people like pete navarro, who is a china hawk and has been strident about china for years. they must have clashes all the time in the white house. do you think that in terms of the prospects for this, some might argue that this policy, whatever you think of it, is starting to show signs of being successful? if countries as powerful as china are anxious to find a way out of the conflict, maybe he is on to something. it depends what you mean by success. when you possess the largest economy in the world,
11:38 am
when the dollar remains the transaction currency internationally, when you are a net importer, so you have the leverage to use tariffs, when he announced tariff hikes, they will have an effect. the problem is, they are a very blunt instrument. it depends what you mean. take china, for instance. yes, china's economy is suffering from these tariffs and they will have to adjust further. on they will have to adjust further. on the other hand, much as donald trump and steve bannon and others seem to think you can outlaw globalisation, there are supply chains, there are international trade relationships that mean you can't hurt another country with tariffs without hurting your own country as well. if you look at the automobile industry in the united states, which obviously stands to be very affected by this, it is largely owned by non—american companies. i think this is pure
11:39 am
populist politics, which in the end is only going to harm american workers. it is already having an impact on the agricultural sector, and nowhere is this more evident than in trump's war. there are birds ofa than in trump's war. there are birds of a feather, trump and erdogan. erdogan says the collapse of the lira is because of trump's tariffs, but it was down 20% before that. it is because of erdogan's own policies and his dictatorial hold at this point over turkey. that is a trade war he will win. that is a precarious economy. but a lot of other people are going to lose. maria's point about erdogan using this is that he is going to blame it ori this is that he is going to blame it on trump. and trump is doing the same thing. it plays very well.
11:40 am
erdogan's son—in—law is the finance minister. we shouldn't lose sight of how damaging it is for allied relations. trump is threatening retaliations against companies in europe that continue to do deals with iran. and he has threatened to put that into practice. that would ruin the relationship with allies. and european countries says we will find a way of helping manufacturers get around this, but that will be difficult. you have to come to a consensus about what to do with iran. i wonder how this crisis could be corrupted, because the intelligence services must surely exchange their data and their recognition of what goes on in iran. how can the europeans and america be so much at loggerheads about how to interpret iran's behaviour now and in the future? if you not only disregard that disbelieve your own
11:41 am
intelligence services, they are the deep state. they are the enemy. that is the problem, his disregard for his own intelligence services, you're quite right. where does it go from here? we have got the talks between china and washington on wednesday. two days of talks. there is talk around that of a political attempt to find some kind of patching up. but with erdogan, there isa patching up. but with erdogan, there is a complete stand—off. patching up. but with erdogan, there is a complete stand-off. we could be on the brink of this major geostrategic shift. talking about the dismantling of the post—world war ii consensus, turkey has been firmly in the camp of the west at least since the second world war if not before, often with very detriment of effects for turkey's people because they have had a series of dictatorships in the past which nobody has said boo about because all the listening posts lined up along the border with russia etc. so if erdogan is now tilting towards russia, china and
11:42 am
iran, we are seeing a shift whose consequences are hard to predict. and that has implications notjust in terms of relations between russia and the united states and their respective camps, but also what happens in the middle east. that is the other big rift. syria is partly a problem but also, we should not forget that after the huge spike in refugees and asylum seekers coming into europe in 2015, it was this deal with turkey under which the level was held back. the consequences could be dire. that as a whole can of worms. thank god for the un! turkey have 3 million refugees currently. it is the largest member of nato, the united states. baby turkey could lend
11:43 am
donald trump some troops as aware of patching up the relationship. maybe thatis patching up the relationship. maybe that is a way of resolving things. last week in, we debated the views of the former british foreign secretary boris johnson of the former british foreign secretary borisjohnson about of the former british foreign secretary boris johnson about what some muslim women wear. this week, it'sjeremy corbyn, his attitude and that of his party tojews which has generated days of headlines. labour is due to vote next month on incorporating an internationally accepted definition of anti—semitism into the party's code of conduct. mr corbyn agrees to the definition but doesn't want it to include one of the examples — claiming that the existence of israel is a racist endeavour — because he says it needs "contexualising". he fears it could blunt legitimate criticism of israeli government treatment of palestinians. ned, asa ned, as a former editor of the jewish chronicle, how badly has this been handled by britain's labour party? it's like a marx brothers
11:44 am
movie. it's been handled extraordinarily badly. but the serious aspect of this, without getting into the weeds of a definition of anti—semitism, is that a little bit like boris and the burqa and the niqab, it's been very revealing of the character of corbyn asa revealing of the character of corbyn as a politician and his personal character. and it is frankly nonsense to say that to include in a definition of anti—semitism, i think the exact wording isn't the problem of defining israel as a racist state, but any state of israel as a racist endeavour being by definition racist. it reflects so perfectly
11:45 am
this 19705 and raci5t. it reflects so perfectly this 19705 and 19805 raci5t. it reflects so perfectly thi519705 and 19805 ideological puri5t who first of all has very 5trong ideological te5t5, hate 5aying when he is wrong, hate5 apologising and sees the5e political i55ue5 apologising and sees the5e political issues as some kind of grand morality play between cla55 heroe5 and class enemies and when it comes to the middle east, the creation of i5rael to the middle east, the creation of israel is kind of an original sin and he knows who the good guys are and he knows who the good guys are and who the bad guys are and that is the difficulty with all these acrobatic5 about how or what part of the definition you accept or not. there are good guys and bad guys. there are good guys and bad guys. there is a very rigid view of the world. to say that that definition precludes critici5m world. to say that that definition precludes criticism of israeli policie5 precludes criticism of israeli policies is nonsense. even manyjew5
11:46 am
have problems with the current i5raeli government's policie5, have problems with the current i5raeli government's policies, and you can do that without being so doctrinaire and by ' about the existence of the state. doctrinaire and by ' about the existence of the 5tate.|j doctrinaire and by ' about the existence of the state. i think ned contextualised corbyn's thinking quite well. there is an ambiguity at the base of his relations with israel which comes out clearly when you see his refusal to exclude the definition of israel as a racist endeavour from anti—semitism. any state is racist endeavour. if you do not include the statement, you virtually exclude israel from the group of civilised nations, so you have to include it. this is a terrible and sad and
11:47 am
depressing mess. iagree this is a terrible and sad and depressing mess. i agree basically with ned's view of where it comes from, although i might put it slightly differently. but i think we are now in a situation where the telegraph headline this morning on the front page says "corbyn is an anti—semite, says munich survivor". this is being used by people on the right to attack corbyn and the labour party. i would say anti—semitism is far more rife on the right not just anti—semitism is far more rife on the right notjust in britain but all over europe than it is in the labour party. but there is this particular tradition on the left, and anti—imperialist tradition which goes from supporting the rights of palestinians to self—determination, which is extremely important and which is extremely important and which is extremely important and which is often elided and wiped out in discussions, with a kind of criticism of israel which can shade into anti—semitism. and i think corbyn needs to come out and say clearly where he stands on that. but i5n't clearly where he stands on that. but isn't the problem that he might not
11:48 am
5tand isn't the problem that he might not stand on the right side of that? his difficulty in saying that is similar to his difficulty in coming out and saying what he thinks about brexit. ambiguity, thy name is corbyn. you need to stand in solidarity with the people you see as your allies, rather than responding to changing events and being able to think on your feet and respond events and being able to think on yourfeet and respond honestly. events and being able to think on your feet and respond honestly. not a great cv for a prime minister. it's very difficult. he does have a tin ear in some respects about anti—semitism. that mural that he praised with thejewish bankers, to me, i looked at that and went, ugh. it is not a great cv for a party leader. the difficulty is the rigidity. let me quote a great intellectual source which i think is a window into this, and that is the peanuts comic strip. linus famously said once, "i love mankind, its people i can't stand". there is a kind of echo in this grand
11:49 am
ideological stance. i was talking to somejewish friends ideological stance. i was talking to some jewish friends in ideological stance. i was talking to somejewish friends in the united states last year who have, even in the us, started, they said, as us citizens born and bred, to feel a little uncomfortable about some of the political debate towards israel. they said what people who aren't jewish perhaps don't understand, particularly for those who have relatives who died in the holocaust, is that israel is the ultimate place of safety. so forjews who look around the world and think, at any time in history, somebody has turned on us time in history, somebody has turned on us and either persecuted us, whether it is pogrom is in russia and other countries or what happened in germany or indeed the attacks in the uk in the 1930s, led by oswald mosley, it's the thought of having a place that you can always go to is the worst happens. and it is that sense of israel rather than what the government is doing, or indeed the palestinians, and these were liberal
11:50 am
jews who feel angry about how israel has treated the palestinians, but they said that is the thing that they said that is the thing that they felt people don't grasp.|j they said that is the thing that they felt people don't grasp. i can share that sentiment but it should not preclude the right to criticise the government. corbyn is doing himself a huge disservice. he could come clean once and for all and say, i recognise the right of israel to exist as much as i recognise the right of palestinians to a second state solution. nothing like that can never be heard from him. b the apology he published in the guardian and the evening standard said labour recognises, he didn't say i am. and when he tries to talk about it, you saw the interview that he did. the body language wasjust saw the interview that he did. the body language was just appalling, rolling his eyes. why are you bothering me with these questions? the body language was, i am not taking this seriously, whatever the words. meanwhile, labour could be in
11:51 am
a great political plays with the tories towing themselves apart. labour is tearing itself apart. finally, some news that sadly wasn't fake — the death on thursday of aretha franklin, a singer who provided the soundtrack for love and heartbreak not just in her native united states, but also for those like my panel, coming to their maturity in the ‘60s and ‘70s. social media was swamped with tributes on thursday, and there was saturation coverage in the newspapers on friday. stryker, any track that stands out from your misspent youth? the track i like most is amazing grace, which is associated with funerals. it is not her song in the sense that she wrote it all was written for her, but it'sjust a beautiful, spiritual song and when she sang those particular songs, she sang them with
11:52 am
a resonance and depth that comes from her own personal experience and nowhere else. and she started in a gospel choir. absolutely. sorry to interrupt. like most women i know, i really, really love music macro. but i have been listening to her gospel recordings. there is an incredible one called the day is past and gone which she recorded when she was 1a in 1956. 14 which she recorded when she was 1a in 1956. 1a and already had two kids. huge voice and there is just something. it comes straight from her soul. i remember the 1960s, when icame to her soul. i remember the 1960s, when i came to maturity, and there was one ear worm after i came to maturity, and there was one ear worm after another coming from her. the one i remember is i say a little prayer, where the accompanying voices were so amateurish compared to what happens on stage nowadays. it's a simple song, but very persuasive, and it
11:53 am
rings in my ears, probably because i was young at the time in those early reminiscences tend to stay with you much longer than later experiences. but she is unparalleled. much longer than later experiences. but she is unparalleledlj much longer than later experiences. but she is unparalleled. i would finish with something she did a few years ago, which was the kennedy ce ntre years ago, which was the kennedy centre award show, in which she did natural woman. she was into her 705 already. she took a carol king song, and it's a reminderthat already. she took a carol king song, and it's a reminder that she owned songs. i think they co-wrote that song. no. from dateline untilthe same time next week, tax forjoining us. goodbye. # looking out on the morning rain, i used to feel so uninspired. # and when i knew i had to face
11:54 am
another day, lord, it made me feel so tired. # now i'm no longer doubtful of what i'm living for. # and if i'm living for. #and if! i'm living for. # and if i make you happy, i don't need to do more. # cos you make me feel. # cos you make me feel. # you make me feel. # you make me feel. # you make me feel like a natural woman. # likea woman. # like a natural woman, yes! # like a natural woman, yes! #a # like a natural woman, yes! # awoman, # like a natural woman, yes! # a woman, a woman. # a woman, a woman. # woman! cheering and applause. it's a weekend of mixed fortunes,
11:55 am
the sunshine generally in short supply with a lot of cloud around. some of us will see some rain, others will stay dry. for most, it's going to feel quite humid. let's look at the bigger picture for the weekend. this front will continue to bring some outbreaks of rain for a time across parts of northern ireland through the central belt of scotland. this is the remnants of what was subtropical storm ernesto. that will pep up the rain overnight. for much of england and wales this afternoon, it should be mainly dry. although a lot of cloud. the odd spot of rain for parts of wales and south—west england. for the far north of scotland, sunny spells and a few showers, sunshine getting into eastern parts of scotland too. it's the western isles of scotland which will continue to see some stronger gusts, gale force for a time. also quite gusty winds among western and channel coasts this afternoon, slowly easing down. the best of the sunshine is the further east you are. temperatures reaching 23 or 2a celsius.
11:56 am
but a cooler feel for the far north of scotland despite some sunshine here. should be mainly dry for the cricket through the day. maybe the odd spot of rain, but that cloud should try to thin and break through the afternoon to get some spells of sunshine. this evening and overnight, we see a more persistent spell of rain arriving into northern ireland and extending into parts of north wales, northern england, southern and central parts of scotland. to the north of this, it stays dry with clearer skies. further south, mainly dry, but a lot of cloud and a very warm and muggy night here. through sunday, our area of rain slowly starts to fizzle out through the day. come the afternoon, most places are largely dry. again, quite a lot of cloud, but it will be trying to thin and break, some bright sunny spells attempting to get through. across much of england and wales, it's another very humid feeling day. cooler and fresher for the far north of scotland, but some sunshine here. as we go into the new working week, fronts are pushing their way eastwards but leaving a legacy of cloud, and this
11:57 am
front will continue to generate showery outbreaks of rain across parts of scotland and northern ireland. some of those showers are likely to extend into parts of northern england. further south, it's mainly dry. again, quite a bit of cloud but we should see bright and sunny spells through the afternoon. we're still holding onto that warmth and humidity, particularly across england and wales, temperatures here getting up to 25 celsius. bye bye. this is bbc news, i'm shaun ley. the headlines at 12 o'clock. former united nations secretary general kofi annan dies aged 80 in hospital in switzerland after a short illness. southern’india’fafes—itswwst as fleeds bags triaaereé landslides . and left nearly two hundred people dead. india's prime minister narendra modi has met senior officials to try to help co—ordinate the relief effort, as forecasters
11:58 am
predict more heavy rain. here, ministers plan a new plastics tax for items such as takeaway boxes and coffee cups after the public back tough action in record numbers. we hope that with the right intelligent responses and tax incentives that we at the treasury can design, in the weeks ahead we can design, in the weeks ahead we can makea can design, in the weeks ahead we can make a real difference that will last for many years to come. also coming up this hour.
53 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on