hello, this is bbc news. the headlines: seniorfigures pay tribute to the former un secretary—general kofi annan, who has died at the age of 80. mr annan rose through the ranks of the united nations to become the first black african to lead it. a huge rescue mission is underway to save thousands of people stranded by floods in the indian state of kerala. more than 320 people have died in the worst monsoon season for a century. as thousands of mourners attend a state funeral in genoa for victims of the motorway bridge collapse, the operator responsible for the bridge says it will rebuild the structure within eight months. a new plastics tax on items such as single—use bottles and coffee cups could be introduced, after the public backed tough measures in a government consultation on how to reduce plastic waste. now on bbc news, another chance to see

a hardtalk special, with kofi annan interviewed in front of an audience in geneva in an event to mark his 80th birthday. welcome to hardtalk, at the headquarters of the kofi anand foundation which marks its tenth anniversary this year. might get in this exclusive and red tv interview is kofi and anne. in a career spanning six decades, he has held several senior positions including two terms as secretary general. there were the high points like the award of the nobel is price but also that tragic events of the random genocide and that massacre in bosnia. kofi annan remained deeply

involved in affairs, world affairs. well, now, as he celebrates his 80th birthday, we talk to him before an invited audience and asked what are his biggest worries today and does he have any regrets? kofi annan, at the graduate institute in geneva, welcome to hardtalk. i am happy to be here with you. you have had a very busy retirement since you left the united nations. do you think that the world is a more troubled place today than it was when you left the un? first of all, i have discovered that retirement is hard work. laughter but you need to keep at it.

i think that i went through difficult moments at the un. you referred to some on them, including the iraq war. but the world is particularly messy today. when we look at what is happening in the middle east, what is happening in some parts of africa, some parts of asia and, also, the fact that i do not see strong leaders around who could cope with this. so you don't think there are strong leaders in the world today? we have donald trump in the white house... laughter ..and he is making very strong and robust statements about syria now, for instance, saying that the suspected chemical attack in douma that we have seen recently that killed dozens of people including children, needs a robust response. different people have different definitions of leadership. laughter and applause i believe that leadership is not about the individual.

when you have macho leaders who believe they have to shine and it all has to be about them, forgetting that what is interest, what is required is a welfare of society and the people they serve. are you referring to donald trump? when you look at what has happened in syria, so many people were appalled by that attack and the one last year. and he referred to the president of syria as a "gas killing animal" and he has that we need a response. to "get ready for nice, new, smart missiles in syria". i do not approve of that. i do not approve of that and i like the secretary general‘s position. antonio guterres? yes. he said what is required is unfettered investigation to determine who was responsible, hold them to account and ensure that impunity is not allowed to stand. and we, the elders, we issued a statement which i, as chairman share quite a lot.

that what we need are cool heads and soberjudgement. we cannot allow situations where leaders threaten war on television or on twitter. do we base ourselves on fact or speed? we have seen this before. we had investigations in iraq which were not allowed to reach a decisive conclusion. we were told that were weapons of mass destruction but now we know the story. the main thing is we need a strategic view. military action alone, is that the solution? would there have to be a better strategy apart from that of also getting the council and everyone to come together to resolve this crisis once and for all? i think it is much more important to push them to work together,

the west and the east, international groups, regional powers and the syrians to find a solution. you were a special envoy to syria in 2012 for both the united nations and the arab league and you try to come up with a plan, a political process, humanitarian help and so on and you gave up. you resigned. that's correct. because it is a tough thing to do, to try and get a workable strategy. i had hoped that my resignation would have sent a powerful message to the council that you have to work together and speak with one voice. but it did not and the situation got worse and worse. 12 million displaced, 500,000 dead. 0bjectively it is much worse now than in 2012. i think in 2012 the ball was dropped after the geneva communique which was not followed out properly when they went back to new york. you think you were

duped in that role? did you realise it was a front at the time that you may have been used as a diplomatic facade? i don't would not say it was a front but i say that i lost my troops on the way to damascus. i told the council that this was an impossible task but we can make a difference if we work together and you stay united. at the early stages they did stay united and they came up with joint statements and all of that. eventually it fell apart. i realised that i was, perhaps, much more serious about peace in syria than they were. the syrian conflict has shown, of course, that it is a rivalry between the united states and russia, they are both backing different partners, russia of course supporting assad. but now relations between the two are at their lowest ebb. some commentators say it is possibly the worst since the cold war. are you worried that this rivalry between moscow and washington could escalate now? i am concerned.

i am worried. i think they have to find a way of engaging in a calm way and, preferably, behind—the—scenes. the sort of language that is being thrown around, coming from leaders is really unimaginable. i mean, it is interesting to hear people in your profession, journalists, saying that we are trying to make sense from all this noise. they are not talking about noise from the streets. they are talking about noise from governmental headquarters, from the offices of presidents. this is unusual. and, in a way, some of the things that we are witnessing today, if they had happened in a third world country, using that sort of language, in the days of idi amin, the lectures we would have received... what sort of language?

mike pompeo, set to become the next secretary of state, has said the use of soft us policy towards russia is now over and russia is a danger to our country. is that what you are referring to? yes. that's what i'm referring to. and from moscow? similar rhetoric? yes. and these are macho leaders. they should find a way of communicating. i am not sure that at the end of the day the people they are trying to impress are actually impressed by this sort of language. people want leadership. they want to be led in the proper direction. they want vision and so for leaders to think that you have to flex your muscles to show that you are powerful and a leader isn't helpful. applause so that is the united... i assume you are talking about donald trump? he has a special language for diplomacy. laughter

but what about russia, which, of course, is attracting criticism for supporting assad. do you see russia as a danger? honestly, i believe that there are so many proxy wars going on in syria that some of the fighting going on has nothing to do with the syrians. so we should be careful not to point fingers on the russians. there are quite a few other players in the theatre. so we are talking about syria. 12 million people displaced or are refugees. if you look at the drc, the democratic republic of the congo, a similar number of people displaced, terrible violence, particularly in certain regions and, you know, it has not gotten as much attention as syria. shouldn't you, as, arguably, the best known african and the most widely admired african currently in the world, shouldn't you speak about the drc every of the week?

what has happened in the drc is quite tragic. attempts have been made to get the government to co—operate. there are so many envoys operating in congo today i'm not even sure i could list them all. situations like congo indicate the limit to international pressure and international influence. we need to find a way of strengthening the local population and local civil society to take on the fight and to work with them. you said there were many envoys there but there are 16,000 un stabilisation forces in the drc, a country the size of western europe. really, they are not going to be able to be very effective. the head of the norwegian refugee council said that the drc was one of the worst crises on earth and yet no—one seems to care about it. is he right? why do you think it does not count.

is because they are african? that could be a part of it. and also the fact that it is a crisis that has gone on for a long time. the first un presence in the congo dates back to 1960 and we have been there almost continuously until now. there is a bit of fatigue and a real leadership crisis in the congo. i said that you are arguably the best known african today and you were the first black african to become head of the united nations. when you were at the un for a career that went for over six decades, you were head of un peacekeeping operations. but i put it to you that in your time, the un charter‘s aim was not met, particularly pertaining to rwanda. we saw the genocide happening

there, when you were head of un peacekeeping operations. the charter‘s aim is to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war. it failed the people of rwanda, didn't it? you could argue that we failed the people of uganda, sorry, rwanda, and we failed the people of bosnia, you mentioned earlier. i think what is important here when we talk of the un, we have to be very clear. which un are we talking about? there are two uns in myjudgement. there is the un that is made up of the member states who sit in the security council, who are the p5, who sit in the general assembly. they have a secretariat and the secretary general, there are mandates and commensurate resources to carry out their mandate. and then there is the un under the secretary general which implements the programme.

in rwanda, it was extremely difficult to get the member states to move. firstly, rwanda came soon after somalia when the american planes had been shot down and the us withdrew and the western countries withdrew along with them. it was at about the same time that rwanda, which at that point, people had thought was doing well, fell apart. and no—one wanted to send troops in, even when we said increased the troops that were there. when you do become aware, i must ask you, there are numerous warnings from people on the ground in rwanda. you must have received at least ten warnings. for example, general romeo dallaire, head of the un peacekeeping mission in rwanda, in november 1993 alerted you to the possibility of what might happen and, yet, you have no response. first of all, he is a good friend and a very good officer.

romeo dallaire, when he sent that message to my military adviser, indicated that it was also possible that it is a trap. that they could walk into a trap. not only that, soon after that, ten belgian soldiers were also killed. the member states were not ready to send in troops. and in this situation, when he said that the un failed, which un are you talking about? i'm asking you really, because injanuary, you received a cable from general romeo dallaire, who said he wanted approval to use force against what he described as crimes against humanity. also jacques—roger booh—booh, the un special envoy to wonder, also said that he was... "in view of rwanda's long and tragic

history of ethnic conflict the possibility of ethnically motivated incidents is a constant threat." there were these things that were coming to you, january, february, and how did you respond? because they say they didn't get the reaction they wanted. he did, he was on the line with our military adviser all the time and also... and you? he came to new york to talk to me. we brought him back for consultation. but what's important, what he should hear, is not everything that comes from the field that you jump on immediately... first of all, with 250 soldiers, 2,500 soldiers, even if you used half of them to try to stop this, they would have been slaughtered the way the americans were... that's not what he told us. he told hardtalk in 2002, general dallaire, he said he could have stopped the genocide with 5,000 peacekeepers, they tied my hands

because they were gunshy. but he didn't have 5,000 soldiers. he had 2,500. the first attack just to kill ten of 15, the member states have wanted to withdraw their troops the way the americans withdrew in somalia. did you not say in january the 10th in a cable to dallaire and booh—booh, "we must handle the situation with caution and no other reconnaissance or action should be taken until there is clear guidance from headquarters." it seems like you were almost suggesting they were exaggerating what might be going on on the ground? but even if they were not exaggerating you needed to think through the implications of the action they were contemplating. it was evident that they did not have the resources to take on the challenge they were confronted with. i mean, you talked about 18,000 un troops in congo...

16,000. ..a drop in the bucket. and often the un has made those mistakes in the past. we put in these small numbers of soldiers who are not always well equipped. they are too big to hide and they're too small to make a difference, and that is a terrible sort of awkward situation. but how did you feel once you realised 800,000 people were killed. all of us who worked in that period were really shattered by the experience and that's why i pushed for the approval of responsibility to protect because that concept, which states that if a country is not in a position or willing to protect its population, then the international community has a responsibility to go in because before then you can say this is a question of sovereignty. we have not been invited, we are not going to show up. that was a landmark achievement

there but the un report to the security council at the end of may, 1995 and the genocide took place in april, 911, said on the un mission there, "we must all realise that we have failed in our response to the agony of rwanda and have thus acquiesced in the continued loss of human lives. " do you think you've acquiesced in those deaths? i don't think we acquiesced but we were helpless. i don't think we acquiesced. if you use the word acquiesce you're implying that 2,500 troops there could have stopped the genocide. you don't feel you've acquiesced. but we failed. was it... you had a long and distinguished career at the united nations, was that the lowest point in your career would you say? for me, being in the peacekeeping department, and also being an african coming from the continent and not being able to do something to help. i won't use the word acquiesce.

we did fail. you said never again, everybody said that, and yet 1995, the year after rwanda, around 7,000—8,000 bosnian muslim men and boys were killed by serbs at srebrenica and again the united nations criticised for failing to prevent the massacre. it's always easy to find a scapegoat. the un... in fact, i used to say that the letters sg does not stand for secretary general, it stands for scape goat, and you can scapegoat the secretary general and the un even when the resources required are not made available. but it's the un's own report in 1999 when you were by then secretary general which was scathing in its criticisms of the un, it said had the un troops engaged the attacking serbs

directly its possible events would have unfolded differently. it may have. but the un report is critical of the un. i released that report. you released it. is the un fit for purpose? i think the un... in today's world. i think the un can be improved, it's not perfect but if it didn't exist you would have had to create it. i think we need to look at how the un acts, the un structure, the decision—making processes, whether in the council or the general assembly. of course, i know you worked very hard to try to reform the security council and expand its membership, permanent seats forjapan, africa, india that sort of thing. let me put to you whatjohn sawers, former mi6 intelligence chief former ambassador to the un, said just recently. "we're seeing a reversion to the great power world where the multinational institutions that we built up since 1945 are becoming less effective.

there's more competition partly because of the politics that is leading to big man leaders like trump, putin, xijingping, erdogan and others." is that where we're heading? less relevance for institutions like the un and more focus on the big man? it appears we're heading that way but i hope the pendulum will swing back. i think these strong leaders will come to understand that the approach they're taking doesn't work. we live in such an interdependent world and we have so many issues that no one country can resolve however powerful that country is. there's also something happening here, a shift, a shift taking place in terms of powershift into other regions, asia and china in particular, and that is very difficult for some in places like america to accept. but it's irreversible.

the trend will continue and we have to find a way of dealing with it. where do you think american foreign policy is heading? you mentioned american there. we've seenjohn bolton, the new national security adviser, a man you remember when you were at the un. he was american ambassador to the united nations and famously said you could blow up ten floors of the un and no one would notice the difference, not in terms of getting rid of people but in terms of its mandate and what it achieves. they tear up the iran accord, they've got until may the 12th to decide... that would be very dangerous, and if the us pulls out next month i hope the other parties to the agreement, the europeans and iranians, will stick together, and let the us isolate itself. it would be destructive, it would cause problems and you're going to tear up the iran agreement at the same time as you're going to talk to the north koreans. what incentive do they have to talk all come to an agreement

when they know you can tear it up the way you're tearing up the iranian agreement. which of the big men do you fear the most? i don't fear any of the big men, i worry about them in our world! i worry about them in our world and the problems they can cause for us. honestly, when i refer to the need for cool heads and soberjudgement i really am talking to all of them. here you are, you've turned 80, when are you going to finally retire? laughter i hope nane didn't plant that question. that's your wife. that's my wife, yeah. that's a constant debate. what's your answer to her and to us? i keep promising i will slow down but i don't think she believes me any more.

but it will come. kofi annan, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. applause hello, there. this weekend brings predominantly allowed —— cloudy skies for many. this photo sent in bya skies for many. this photo sent in by a weather watcher in devon, cloudy skies here. and fairly dramatic skies in leeds. tomorrow, outbreaks of rain in central swathes

of the uk. the remnants of tropical storm during rain for a time, heavy bursts particularly through tonight, parts of northern ireland and central and southern parts of scotland. tonight, the outbreaks of rain will work there way east. further north, missed but drier at temperatures lower. further south, oh more humid feel to things. 0vernight lows of 13 to 17 celsius. tomorrow, we start off with rain. gradually working east as we move through the day. and improving picture. to the north of that, missing the rain, some sunny spells, dry for northern ireland and the south—east of england, fair amount of cloud, temperatures and a maximum of cloud, temperatures and a maximum of 23 degrees. for the cricket tomorrow, and improving picture.

drizzle through the morning. cloud around and temperatures at a maximum of 22 celsius. through sunday into monday, we will see the back of that area of low pressure. we hold onto the weather pressure, grazing the far north. shall we outbreaks of rain, body north and in the as well. a good deal of cloud around, some brea ks a good deal of cloud around, some breaks in the cloud, some sunny spells, predicting further south and east. temperatures up to 26 celsius in the south—east but elsewhere, jerry in the high teens and 20s. —— generally. dry weather, brighter and. later in the day, outbreaks of rain moving into the north—west. pressure in north—west through wednesday but stay warm in south east. this is bbc world news today. i'm lebo diskeo. our top stories.

world leaders pay tribute as former un secretary—general kofi annan dies in switzerland, aged 80. leadership is not about the end. when you have macho leaders who believe they have to shine then it all has to be about them forgetting what is required is the welfare of society and the people they serve. it's been called a "hundred year flood" but more heavy rain is forecast in india's kerala state. a state funeral for many of the victims of italy's bridge collapse — as more bodies are found in the rubble. and footballing legend christiano ronaldo makes his debut forjuventus, after moving from real madrid.