this is bbc news, i'm annita mcveigh live in dublin. the headlines at ten o'clock. pope francis arrives in knock on the second day of his ground—breaking visit to ireland. the pope has expressed shame over the church's handling of sex abuse crimes yesterday. one man said the pontiff had ‘promised there would be consequences‘. i got the strong impression that no one will be exempted from just penalties. and i'm ben brown — the other headlines this hour. the government plans to make it harder for businesses to walk away from commitments to workers and suppliers if they go into insolvency. british scientists say they have pieced together what dinosaur dna looks like. senatorjohn mccain, the vietnam war hero turned senator and us presidential candidate, has died at the age of 81. and coming up in 30 minutes on the

bbc news channel... whether world and this time we are in scotland. we will discover what scientists are doing to protect one of scotland's's most famous products... whiskey! hello, and welcome back to dublin. phoenix park in dublin, although the pictures you saw seconds ago were from knock in west ireland, where pope francis has arrived in the last few minutes. we will explain what will be happening here later in phoenix park at three o'clock. pope francis will say mass in front of an

estimated crowd of 500,000 people. some hardy souls already arriving with their rain macs on because the weather is very inclement here. this will be the closing event of the world meeting of families, the official reason for pope francis being in ireland this weekend. an event organised by the catholic church every three years to celebrate the role of the family in the church. let's now return to pictures from one, in county mayo in the west of ireland. the holy shrine that pope francis will be visiting, he arrived at knock airport, west of ireland airport, officially it is called. a short 20 minute flight from dublin with flight number eii979, to reflect the last time

there was a pipe in ireland, john paulil there was a pipe in ireland, john paul ii, back in 1979, almost a0 yea rs paul ii, back in 1979, almost a0 years ago. making his way down the steps of the aircraft, when he flies back from knock to dublin it will be el 2018, marking his own visit here. a5,000 people expected in knock for the event. he was greeted by airport officials, senior clergy, school children from the area as well. there have been big rehearsals in knock for this event today. joining me here in dublin is theologian

father aidan connolly, he can explain more for those who do not know about knock, the significance of this place. knock is a shrine, an international place of pilgrimage dedicated to our lady, 15 independent witnesses in 1879 saw the same image on the side of the wall of the church. notjust an image, it turned out to be, as they believed and reported, 0ur image, it turned out to be, as they believed and reported, our lady, st joseph, her spouse and saintjoan the avengers, symbolised with a lamb and a cross. it quickly became a place of pilgrimage. 200 investigations into it and it was confirmed as an authentic vision of oui’ confirmed as an authentic vision of our lady which has turned up in places of extreme poverty, loneliness and extreme lonely hardship. it would be the ideal place for pope francis to visit. he

has a sense of compassion for those suffering in a particular way. as you say it's a place of pilgrimage, 1.5 million pilgrims visit every year. it is the reason for the airport being there? it was bold, as we saw this morning, the two things associated with this airport is filed and bog. people say it is the second miracle earth knock, that an international airport was built within 15 kilometres of it. and you have touched on a little but why the pope is in knock but tell us more, why dd fixes would have been fitted into what is a tight schedule with 36 hours, giving the main focus is this festival? two things, the first is the reality that he is a devotion himself to our lady. and in brazil,

he was very connected there, to an apparition of our lady there as well. it is a centre of reconciliation and a centre for those who are sick, in particular. there are many pilgrimages for the old there. there are many pilgrimages for the old there. —— for the unwell there. it isa it is a place of coming to terms with whatever physical or mental illnesses people may have. there is a lot of things like that which go on there. celebrations and reconciliation is powerful in knock. a lot of quiet miracles that take place in people's lives there. a lot of quiet miracles that take place in people's lives thereli would like to welcome our viewers from around the world. as we look at images from knock, in county mayo, in the west of ireland. pope francis is expected in the next few minutes. he has arrived at the airport, just

a short drive away. the holy shrine in knock, which is the reason for his visit. a crowd of many tens of thousands reported to be there in the inclement weather. with me here in dublin, where pope francis will be later on, the theologian father eamon conway. the church of the apparition there. for those who have joined us, remind us of the story of knock. what you are looking at there, the gable end is where in 1879, it is believed 0ur there, the gable end is where in 1879, it is believed our lady appeared with stjoseph and with st john the evangelist. the youngest witness was 16. people much older than that too. two still alive in 1836 were able to confirm those

stories. 0ne died within a few months of that. they say they know they are going to meet their maker and they testify that our lady appeared. 0ne went up and touched the feet. there are signs that this has become such a powerful place of reconciliation and healing for so many people who come from all over the world to knock. it is no surprise that pope francis chose to spend time here. images are heart—warming. i'm not sure if the weather is improving there as much as in dublin. it is getting brighter here. the rain has stopped. i hope that people continue to go to phoenix park but i'm sure for those who turned up in knock, i was there in1979... who turned up in knock, i was there in 1979... you have a who turned up in knock, i was there in 1979. .. you have a connection from your childhood 7 in 1979. .. you have a connection from your childhood ?|j in 1979. .. you have a connection from your childhood? i was there as a scout. we were camping on a hill before the pope arrived in ireland. we still helped afterwards with the clean—up. i did not get to see him anywhere else but it was a privilege. i was beside the media

stand and he passed right under me. i remember that. it was a privilege. these are the same images we had a0 yea rs these are the same images we had a0 years ago. police forming a chord on around him. 0bviously making sure that he was safe. he arrived late in knock, john paul ii, in 1979. he was not able to travel around in the chorales. people are disappointed at that. the pope has travelled in a closed car cavalcade from the airport, to the outskirts of the shrine estate itself. he is getting into the popemobile. any people coming to see the pope, they want to see him in a popemobile, don't they? he is going to travel around a short route around the estate of the shrine. approximatelyjust over one kilometre in length. giving people a better chance to see him. i hope you

can hear us all over the sounds in the background, where there are performances on the stage here in dublin for those beginning to gather for the mass here later. this is the knock shrine. and on the right of the picture is the basilica, one of the picture is the basilica, one of the largest churches in ireland. standing rule 15,000 people, and recently renovated. a fantastic rebuilding and refurbishment. it is beautiful, there is a major tapestry in there commemorating the apparition. the popemobile is making its way around. 39 years ago, pope john paul ii was in galway in the morning coming to knock. he was delayed in galway. he arrived late in knock and to everyone's disappointment he could not travel around as pope francis is now doing. there is a healing of history with what you see now. for those who have waited for a considerable time since the early hours, this will make it

all worthwhile. this moment, won't it? the 81—year—old pontiff again standing. he has not been in the popemobile for long periods of this visit but when he has been he has chosen to stand, so that people can get a better view of him. we know that this popemobile torvill and outside the apparition chapel and the pope will go inside and say a prayer. and place, we are told, a gift at the feet of the statue of 0ur gift at the feet of the statue of our lady. for international viewers, i suppose, who have never been to ireland, these shots are coming from what is traditionally seen as the poorest part of our country. rural and underdeveloped economically. in recent yea rs and underdeveloped economically. in recent years a lot has been done to develop every aspect of ireland but there is an urban and rural divide.

i think that is part of the significance of moving outside of the metropolitan city to get out to the metropolitan city to get out to the peripheries. he is as close as you can get to the periphery of europe in the west of ireland. and support for the catholic church, and membership of the catholic church is clearly still very high in ireland. and where it is the strongest is probably in rural areas, like this, rather than urban areas? the taxi driver i took this morning to get to dublin castle, he is from donegal, further west, further north...|j further west, further north...” know it well, i love it there. he said that he was so sorry that pope francis did not go north. he said thatis francis did not go north. he said that is where fake practice is still and —— that is where faith practice is still there. he lives and works in the republic of ireland, but it borders northern ireland. there were references to that yesterday. with

lee varadkar, the irish prime minister. with his speech at dublin castle. a man who was instrumental in helping to put the peace process together in northern ireland. do you think that we can see if he visits there? some people may be surprised that the holy see has such implements on a global scale in terms of bringing about reconciliation and healing. but it has been doing it for centuries. think about cuba, in pope francis's own time, and the middle east. he bought leaders there to the holy see and they planted a tree together. there has been religious difference, recovering from that restoring peace isa recovering from that restoring peace is a key part of the mission of the holy see. i can imagine if at all possible, it may not be pope francis but a successor but some people take

an invitation that will be issued by all political leaders and visit northern ireland. as we watch the popemobile travel through crowds of people here in knock, it strikes me that the emphasis in what he has been saying in his three speeches so far, we expect more speeches at the homily in mass in dublin later today. his focus has been on people, the family. they are the church? people don't think much has happened in the last five years but a huge amount has happened since pope francis came in. his biggest achievement, in my view, is restoring what we call synod. making us restoring what we call synod. making us understand that this is a global church. at the heart of that committee ordinary people of god who live and work in ordinary circumstances. bishops, bridges and

structures, and pope francis reminded us that in all his visits, he brings culinary circumstances to the fore and that is what he is doing here. and what about the response of the people of ireland to what pope francis has had to say so far? iam what pope francis has had to say so far? i am talking specifically about his response to abuse carried out by members of the church and in church run institutions. which, of course, has been where there has been a drop—off in church attendance, that has not been the sole reason that a significant reason? the ordinary member of the catholic church in ireland is quite actually fed up of the fact that this has not been dealt with adequately at a structural level. the victims i have spoken to, i had the privilege of meeting a number of victims and survivors of sexual abuse. they say

the sexual violence they endured was horrendous but not being taken seriously when they found courage to report that and communicate that. all they ever really wanted was to be believed and reassured that this would not happen again. they did not wa nt to would not happen again. they did not want to share the responsibility. that somebody else may be vulnerable. really, that has yet, i suppose, to have that accountability in place. we have stringent child protection measures in place, and rightly so. and the abuse that we are dealing with is historical but the pain is not historical. depay many victims endured is not historical and it needs to be listened to and heard. i am 36 years a priest and it would dominate my priesthood, this is a painful reality that we have to live with in the irish church and in other parts of the church as well. and what we heard from one of the eight

survivors of abuse in a meeting with pope francis for 90 minutes in dublin yesterday, we have not heard too many details, it has to be said. but one of those survivors himself, 110w but one of those survivors himself, now a priest, did not want the pope to come here because of the church's record on handling and dealing with abuse cases. but afterwards, he said it had been a really constructive conversation. do you think that the pope went further in that conversation, what we know of it, than anything he said yesterday in public? we don't know. but father mccafferty, who we were referring to, seems to indicate that he was reassured that there would be accountability. those who covered up abuse and made mistakes, they should not have acted incompetently, they will be dealt with. let's pause in oui’ conversation will be dealt with. let's pause in our conversation for a moment. let's ta ke our conversation for a moment. let's take a breath to look at these pictures as the pope gets closer now

to the shrine, to the chapel of the apparition in knock, county mayo. cheering father raymond, you are keen to say something? the pope is accompanied by the archbishop of that diocese, it would be normal that the host archbishop would accompany him. the other bishops of that province, there are six dioceses in west ireland and they are all there. they will have two rush to get back up into phoenix park. i don't think they are on the plane with him. they not getting a lift on the plane? cheering

a very enthusiasts at reception for pope francis, as the popemobile moves through the crowds of people gathered there. getting very close to the chapel where he will have a moment of silent prayer. he is expected to speak here in knock. the vatican flags and the papal flags, flying there. along with, i suspect, cou nty flying there. along with, i suspect, county flags? it is a small village church which is exactly the same as it was in 1879. at the gable end, where the apparition took place, and over to the right, as we look at the

screen, this huge new basilica, pope francis is about to be greeted by the rector, the preacher in charge of knock, a young man who has done a lot of work to expand community services that knock provides. father richard gibbon, greeting the holy father as he comes off the popemobile. this much expanded basilica accommodating huge numbers of people who come here. built for those with mobility issues or disabled in a particular way, to give them ready access there. between the 15th and the 22nd of august is the peak moment. every day, there are tens of thousands of people who come there every day during that period. you can see the contrast in architecture. the old church behind. the stone of the old church, this very modern facade.

yes. that tower to the right is where i stood in 1979, actually. the tower to the right of the gable there. they are now entering into there. they are now entering into the place where the apparition took place. archbishop neary, accompanying the holy father, he has taken off his cape, i imagine. father gibbon, he has gone to pray in quieti father gibbon, he has gone to pray in quiet i imagine for a few moments. parishioners reaching out for a handshake with pope francis. it is remarkable to think he was 20 hours on the go yesterday, leaving early in the morning. and here he is, certainly looking more majestic than i feel at this time in the morning! not his first visit to

ireland, we should remind people. he studied english at an institute here in dublin. it seems though he has forgotten in dublin. it seems though he has fo rg otte n a in dublin. it seems though he has forgotten a lot of it unfortunately! all speeches have been an italian so far. but obviously, his first visit as pope. the cap that the child is wearing is the kind of cap that would have been worn in 1879. they had a little play to re—enact the apparition there early this morning. we saw them on stage. these statues are in the exact same position the witnesses independently reported that they saw a lady in the middle. stjoseph on the left and stjohn the evangelist, the author of the fourth gospel, the latest to be written, about a5 years afterjesus, about 90 a.d. . greeting those

children who have been chosen to dress in clothing of the time. lighting the candle and we are told there will be a moment of quiet prayer... but he is rather surrounded by people at the moment. lighting the candle... 0f surrounded by people at the moment. lighting the candle... of course, for believers and nonbelievers, it isa for believers and nonbelievers, it is a universal symbol of hope. not just for catholics or those with particular faith. it is a symbol of hope. i think we noticed that pope francis is not kneeling much during this visit. i think he finds it quite difficult so he isjust sitting quietly when he goes to pray. according to his schedule, he will be inside the chapel for around seven minutes. he will go outside

and lead the people gathered there in prayer. deliver, we understand, a short speech before getting into the car to return to the airport. and then eventually, we will get back to dublin for the mass that will take place at 3pm this afternoon. the final event of the world meeting of families, the gathering hosted in dublin this weekend. what do you think the response of people has been to pope francis on this visit? as we were talking yesterday, we we re as we were talking yesterday, we were chatting about the relationship between people in the church, it was different to when popejohn paul ii was here. more complex and less deferential? much less deferential. nothing wrong with that at all. we talk about having moved from where

it isa talk about having moved from where it is a matter of face to faith. i think it is better that people can do that and do so very well. the christian message has been articulated in an incredible way. people respond. they obviously have two discern their own relationship with god and what it means for them but pope francis has been a powerful witness. faith is not about doctoring or teaching but it is about relationships, withjesus christ and one another. pope francis put that back at the heart as did pope benedict. but how pope francis calls us to recognise that. our faith means nothing if it does not involve the goodness of one another, love of one another. you can see the reve na nt love of one another. you can see the revenant is, love of one another. you can see the revena nt is, people love of one another. you can see the revenant is, people are praying with pope francis as we watch. it is so important to have these quiet moments. for him, personally, so

they have that sense of presence with people when he meets them. for many people it hasn't been a question of a loss of faith but perhaps confidence in the hierarchy of the church, rather than their fundamental faith? in of the church, rather than their fundamentalfaith? in a of the church, rather than their fundamental faith? in a sense it is not unique to the church. we have lost a lot of incidences of credibility within our society. the deinstitutionalisation of society, we have seen it in many ways. that has been the case of allen, with businesses and banking. we have found they have let us down in some respects. people are trying to find a new way in irish society in general. but still, christian faith remains important. you cannot be disconnected entirely roman institution or community, certainly. we come to god with one another and through one another. that is important. but people will not, as

you say, be blindly obedient and should not be. john henry newman, a very important theologian, says a non—question of faith among people who are capable of a question of faith is dangerous and inconsistent. we find that people now are questioning the faith and we should accompany them in that. that has been a challenge for the church, to go from that position of people following without question, in many cases, to that questioning nature?” suppose it has been a challenge. i enjoy it very much. i think a lot of my work, as a theologian, is to gently help people to answer their questions but also to question their a nswe rs. questions but also to question their answers. to make them beyond perhaps simplistic understanding to a deeper faith. i imagine some viewers today are struggling, seeing could our lady have appeared at knock? it makes no sense. but maybe it does?

if you understand the care of god, god's interest in us as people. especially at our most vulnerable. god can mediate and be present to us through loved ones. who have gone before us. in ireland, the presence of those who has gone before. it is very profound. yesterday, for example, the parents of a father from iraq, he has a strong irish connection. he is now on the path to the advocate. the pope is now presenting golden rosemary —— golden rosary beads. this goes back to the famous battle of the pa nto. back to the famous battle of the panto. it back to the famous battle of the pa nto. it became back to the famous battle of the panto. it became a symbol of prayer.

—— the battle of apanto. rosary beads are often wrapped around the fingers of the deceased in the coffin. when pope john fingers of the deceased in the coffin. when popejohn paul ii came in1979, he coffin. when popejohn paul ii came in 1979, he presented a golden rose. now pope francis is presenting the rosary beads, they will be on display for pilgrims coming to the site for years ahead. we are now going to pray, also a very important prayer which is a prayer which is done at noon. in rome, it is done at noon. we are doing it slightly earlier because of the schedule in knock. he is probably here meeting a lot of the people who volunteered to work in knock. there is someone in a wheelchair there, symbolising the

important ministry of care for the disabled and sick in knock. they have come here not always expecting that they will be healed but get inner strength and resilience. this is such an important work for pope francis, accompanying people. speaking yesterday at the shelter for the homeless, he really made a strong statement. the only one he has made so far to priests accompanying people in their vulnerability. be there for them and don't put impossible demands on people. and the crowd that was cheering a few minutes ago now standing very