Skip to main content

tv   Talking Books  BBC News  September 2, 2018 10:30am-11:01am BST

10:30 am
town in north devon. for the first time in tour of britain history, the cyclists are going to have to go through a building, and it's this victorian pannier market in south molton. it's a place more used to shopping than sporting activities, but those cyclists, the motorcycle out riders and the police cars are all going to have to go through this doorway, and it's going to be a tight squeeze. excitement has been building ever since the call came. everyone seems to have gone bike crazy. it's absolutely fantastic. it was about five months ago i had this call out of the blue and they asked me if the tour of britain could come through the pannier market. i was totally taken aback and thought it was something else. i said yes. i had to keep it quiet for about three or four months. i couldn't even tell my councillors, i was allowed to tell the mayor and she had to keep it quiet as well. this normally busy building will be cleared and a grandstand built through the night so spectators get the chance to see their cycling
10:31 am
heroes at close quarters. i'm a big cycling fan, and having team sky, the other world tour teams riding through here. my son's going to be here watching his hero chris froome ride through, but to have the peloton coming through here, have world stars riding through our town is phenomenal. and this is where the cyclists will emerge. at 100m from start to finish, it won't take them long to pass through and head onto the coast. but the memory of their visit and the impact on this small rural town will last far, far longer. sarah ransome, bbc news, south molton. now it's time for a look at the weather with stav. hello. yesterday plenty of sunshine across england and wales, similar story today, more sunshine in the east, cloudy in the west, outbreaks
10:32 am
of rain arriving here. this weather front moving from the atlantic. the best of sunshine across eastern parts of england and north—east scotland, we could see mid 20 temperatures, early born elsewhere, quite a windy day in western scotla nd quite a windy day in western scotland and northern ireland with that rain becoming quite heavy. this evening and overnight weather front sinking south and east, clearing skies behind for the north and west of scotla nd skies behind for the north and west of scotland and northern ireland, becoming more chilly here, elsewhere with cloud that will be another one night, temperatures in double figures. this weather front bringing outbreaks of rain, warm again across the south—east, from tuesday onwards, high—pressure in control, cooler for all. hello, this is bbc news with ben brown. the headlines... standing firm on brexit — theresa may says she won't give in to calls for another referendum. the shadow chancellor says he's
10:33 am
worried about the prospect of the labour party splitting apart amid the row over anti—semitism. a big rise in the number of staff caught smuggling banned items into prisons. more protests in the german city of kemnitz following the death of a german man alleged to have been killed by two migrants. those are the headlines. now on bbc news, talking books. hello and welcome to talking books from the edinburgh international book festival with me, kirsty wark. ten years on from the election of barack 0bama, what progress does author and academic t geronimojohnson think america has made in the realms of race relations? he says too many of us have stood idly by while america is being run
10:34 am
roughshod by conservative racists. in his breakthrough novel, welcome to braggsville, t geronimojohnson details the life of a young white boy from braggsville, georgia, who wins a place at the prestigious berkeley university in california. the novel explores the complexities of race, identity and class, be it in the liberal elite in berkeley or in the traditions of the deep south. applause. t geronimojohnson, a very warm welcome to talking books. thank you. you have been compared to some extremely fine authors — mark twain, toni morrison, tom wolfe — and i wonder if that's because you have got the capacity to put a magnifying glass up to american life, with all its foibles, and chronicle it in a very acute way, but also a way that makes us laugh, too.
10:35 am
right, i think that may definitely have something to do with it, that's definitely what moves me about a few of the writers that were mentioned there. but it's always felt to me necessary to try to have a breadth of emotional experiences in a novel, otherwise, it can get too heavy. and if it's too heavy all the way through, considering some of the topics i'm dealing with, i don't know that that leaves the reader in a good position to really, like, face forward and think about how we can move on from where we are right now. i think the thing is, as well, what you do is you come at it from all angles, so every race, every variation, every ethnicity, gets it with both barrels and it also has some love directed towards it. right, right. and your most recent book is welcome to braggsville but before we delve into that kind of roller—coaster, rumbustious novel, i want to begin with your first novel, hold it ‘til it hurts, and this is a deeply
10:36 am
affecting, tender novel. at its heart are two young men, achilles and troy, who are adopted. they are not brothers — they are not blood brothers — but they're adopted sons of a white couple, and they are afghanistan vets — or you would call it in the book "goddamnistan vets". goddamnistan vets, yes. they take two tours together and much of the action takes place in new orleans, your home town. before we talk about the really big issues that you face, i also want to talk about the family dynamics in this particular relationship. here we have two young black men, adopted by i would say a lower—middle—class white family, traditional five acres that they have. yes. tell me how you alighted on that family dynamic. i wanted to put together a cast of people who were trying to do their best for each other but didn't necessarily know how. and so, this is what ends up happening with achilles' parents, who don't really know how to prepare him for what he will face
10:37 am
when he leaves his small home town where everybody knows him and he becomes just this anonymous black kid walking down the street which is, in much of american society, a symbol for danger, right? like, people are worried as soon as they see this. and then also, with — you know, between the two brothers, with all of the tension and competitiveness that can arise between siblings, you mix in this notion of masculinity, you send them off to war and they come back, and achilles really wants to do what's best but he doesn't know how because he's following too many different rules. and so, this is part of what i was thinking at the beginning. but it's a very — it's a very tender dynamic between the mother and the sons, particularly, because what happens is, you know, sending or — well, both boys sign up — well, troy signs up, so achilles better go, and achilles is the son that you'd all want to have and troy is a bit more wayward.
10:38 am
right. and it's about loyalty and it's also, to me, it seems very much about nature versus nurture. it's certainly about this — this conflict between from where do you draw who you are, right? is it — is it your genetics or is it your environment within which you've been raised, you know? and the funny thing for them, though, is because they end up going off to war at a very young age and have this extremely traumatic and concentrated experience, we know that whatever nurturing they've had, and whatever nature they brought into it, are both changed somewhat by this, like, 18 months of basically been charged with killing people. this is essentially theirjob when they're deployed. and i wonder on — just to digress a bit — to talk about afghanistan, because when you were writing this book, or ahead of writing this book, you knew a lot of people that has been in the military.
10:39 am
yes, yes. and it's very obvious that you'd actually thought and talked to people about ptsd particularly. yes. at the time, at least in america, there was no discussion about how to help these young men re—enter society. so they've spent a number of months literally being under fire, being afraid for their lives, and then actually going through the changes that you go through when you become acclimated to being afraid for your life, right? when you become accustomed to people shooting at you every day. so then you go home but your triggers are still there, right? and you still have all of this — all of this emotional vortex that's kind of carrying you along. and so, i really wanted to explore that in the novel, because itjust — no—one was talking about it at the time and it seemed a shame. and it resonated also with vietnam and korea as well. right, of course, right. and you know, you always imagine that after something as traumatic as vietnam when people came back and people didn't know how to deal with vets from vietnam,
10:40 am
that we would be in a better place. right. well, you know, i think that a lot of the philosophy around reintegrating after vietnam or korea or even world war i was just be silent. right? simply, you don't talk about it. this is also a part of the code of masculinity, right? so you don't talk about what's bothering you. you basically don't talk about anything. which is why i would say that most men probably — not probably — like, die of masculinity, to the extent that we die of, like, heart disease or stress—related conditions. and so, i was — i was also thinking in the novel about what it means to be a young man who has been given the ultimate responsibility and the ultimate duty and then have that licence removed and kind of find yourself, like, basically a warrior in peacetime, right? and a warrior in peacetime, and also a warrior in peacetime who is also an african—american and comes back, but then he goes
10:41 am
to new orleans and faces black—on—black violence. we have this black—on—black violence kind of weighing against, or counterbalancing, achilles' experiences of being in afghanistan, when, actually, this is the first time he's been around a lot of people who look like like him, and he is supposed to shoot them. right, so that ended up, i think, allowing me to create kind of a richer — a richer story, in a way, yeah. and also, when you look at the domestic lives and achilles returns — and he always remembers that he's come back from afghanistan, and there's no doubt that his mother was warning him away from his one—time, two—time, three—time girlfriend, because she was considered white trash. right. his parents wanted him to date someone of higher standing than janice. you have this notion of class and race, what might be white trash, being juxtaposed against the, like, slow and steady work of love. you do that in another
10:42 am
character in the book, ines, who is a young — well, she isn't actually african—american but she can, as it were, "pass". yes, she can. and you're very funny about her because one of the great things you do is you absolutely burst the bubble of the gap year — or the "gap yar", as it is called here — but she has actually gone and done her time in afghanistan as well, but he still thinks that she's a bit snooty. he does. you know, he thinks that she is snooty and also, oddly enough, he is more attracted to her because he doesn't know that she's black, right? so that kind of sets them up to have a reckoning and reconciliation that changes how they both look at themselves in the world. yes, which is what you do in both novels, which is undercut what we think, and i think you do that so well because what happens is you've this incredibly energetic, vibrant page of writing, but at the end, you've got to go
10:43 am
"stop" and go "well, i've just got to think about that for a minute." which brings me on to actually how you — literally — how you write, because you are a professor of creative writing, you do lots of different things. and you participate in different writers' programmes, you say that you are a serial monogamist — when you do one project, you do one project, when you have one relationship, you do one relationship — so how literally do you put your life of a writer together? well, i have to admit last fall, i was a little bit promiscuous... we like confessions! ..and i saw several projects at the same time, and that was fun. but i think it's, for me, it's better to focus on a single book because it lets me look at the world that i'm living in and filter those experiences through a unique mind, because each book has a unique mind. i read a lot of religious texts as a child and there's something to the language of the bible that
10:44 am
i think is part of — part of these influences as well. i mean, also listening — listening to music. so i think all of that goes in. are you religious now? um, it depends on who's watching this show. laughter. mom, i am very religious! my friends, you know the truth. no, my mother knows the truth. i — i — i look back and feel that the religious upbringing i had was one of the most important components of my development because it gave me a sense of what it means to believe in something outside of myself, something higher, and even if someone later leaves their religion, there's still this space — this imaginative space, you know, in your soul, this kind of outward sense of belief and belonging. and also, it is important to me, looking back, because i — i have an appreciation for what it means to believe something that
10:45 am
other people don't, or to believe something and feel like you're kind of an outsider, right? and also, a sense of kind of the totality of that veil, right? once you put it on, it determines everything you do. but it also, coming back to this idea, that it means that you believe what other people don't believe and vice—versa, but it gives you a compassion rather than an intolerance? certainly, certainly. i think that at the global level, we often see a lot of religious conflict that would lead us to believe religions are inherently intolerant but when you read the text themselves, they pretty much all extol the golden rule, and there's a great quote from the dalai lama, that everyone does not need to become buddhist, they simply need to practise whatever religion it is they claim to be following. let's come on properly to the much
10:46 am
garlanded braggsville, which the new york times said was the funniest send—up of identity politics and racial anxiety in years. it begins with a 500—word sentence which crackles with energy and sets the pace. the style challenges the reader. what did you want to think in that first huge rush of language? "this is not for me." or maybe it is. but i wanted to let the reader know very early on that it was going to have this kind of frenetic pace and also, it wasn't going to be a book that wants to tell you what you already know in a way that you have already heard it, and i feel like this was the important thing, you're going to start talking about contemporary society or social issues, no—one needs me to tell them what they already know in a way they have heard it said before. braggsville itself is a place of 700 souls and it is where a young boy
10:47 am
comes from who goes to berkeley and he doesn't fit in until he meets three other people of varied ethnicity and they call themselves the four little indians. tell me about them. the four little indians are quite, quite different in that d'aron coming from georgia, in the south.... all the way through the novel, "are you daron, are you d'aron?" he talks about dropping the apostrophe early on. he has this anxiety about being a southerner. 0n the west coast, there is a bit of derision about people who are from the south, so he's trying to figure out how he can fit in and sound smart but he is also coming from a small town where he was the valedictorian and that was easy but it seems like everyone at berkeley was a valedictorian and so how does
10:48 am
he stand out? he ends up falling in with candice, who is one—quarter native american. or as she puts it, one—quarter indian, the kind you found, not the kind you were looking for. then you have charlie, who is this african—american kid from a poor area of chicago but who, through an athletic scholarship, ends up attending a residential school and it gives him this great education. lastly, we have louis chang who wants to be the next lenny bruce lee, the next kung fu comedian. one of the key things i was interested in was d'aron or daron, whatever we are going to call him, was originally black but you changed him. why? when i first started on the novel, i imagined he would be a black teenager from a small town in georgia, but as i tried to get started, it didn't make sense
10:49 am
that this teenager would move and leave a small town in georgia, go to california and agree to return and visit and participate in the civil war re—enactment and also have no historical sense of it. it's something his parents, growing up in the south, would have advised him against. you get a lot of explicit instruction growing up a person of colour in the south — always be respectful when the police stop you, you know, don't talk back. your parents basically give you a laundry list of things that you should do to ensure that you will come home in one piece each night. and that being the case, the story wasn't working because the main character would already know... all that. not to go back and do what he did. but they go back because
10:50 am
the professor on alternative history course, is talking about the civil war re—enactments that are becoming more popular again, one of which is in braggsville and the four of them, they go on an adventure which has dark consequences because they decide to do what? they decide what they want to do is stage a fake lynching at the civil war re—enactment to give people a sense of everything at stake. and see if they can start a conversation about what this history means. give us a reading you'd like to explore. so this is from the scene when they are in school, in class, and they come up with the idea to do this project. "the table was shocked — the entire class, in fact. they had heard tales of civil war re—enactments
10:51 am
but they were still occurring? the war between the states was another time and another country, as was the south. are barbers still surgeons? is there still sharecropping? what about indoor plumbing? like an old loony tunes skit, tex avery tag ensued. charlie gawked at louis who gawked at candice who generously suggested it as a capstone project to the professor, who googled the event and announced it coincided with spring break. serendipity has spoken." so here we have a really big pot shot at the liberal elite at berkeley. you have lectured and taking classes there but because you are fearless, are you taking a pot shot at the liberal elite? no, no. it was more of perhaps a sustained volley. but let me explain. what's kind of happening in the book, i'm thinking very much about the far right and the far left and these incompatibilities and using them as a space to explore
10:52 am
all of the positions in between. when you talk about different black experiences where you are in america, it's so obvious. like atlanta, the african—american experience in atlanta is completely different in the projects of philadelphia. atlanta is unique in that regard. i didn't realise it or appreciate it perhaps as much as when i lived there because i remember moving to oakland and working with a group that was giving kids access to the sciences and they told the kids that they should be very grateful to be around so many other people of colour who were successful and be grateful to be in the same room with other people of colour who were successful and i was puzzled and asked the speaker afterwards, why do you act like this is an anomaly? this happens all the time and he says, no, not out here. maybe in atlanta, not out here, so that is a big difference between atlanta and most
10:53 am
of the other cities. atlanta is still a viable, what you would say, like a chocolate city where there are enough people of colour who are plugged into the economy at every level. there is representation at every level. it is rare. when i lived in atlanta, i worked in banking for a minute and there was a time when banks would put underwriters on buses and take them on tours of south—west atlanta so they could see with their own eyes these large homes owned by wealthy african—americans so that when they went back to their offices to do their credit scoring and their underwriting, they wouldn't stare in disbelief if an application crosses their desk with an african—american buyer making a million wanting to buy a $2 million house. they are just resistant to that
10:54 am
being a possible reality. which brings me talk about barack 0bama and whether or not, it's almost a decade since we knew he was going to be the us president, and how did you view his election? the great thing about his election is that it showed us what was possible and it also opened the doors to the unfinished conversations that we still needed to have at the time and are only now having, so it wasn't until after... everything we see now with trump actually started under 0bama in terms of the alt—right and the militias... under 0bama's administration, the militias grew i,000% across the nation. people started stockpiling assault rifles and there is this general anxiety or fear that he might in some way retaliate for this
10:55 am
perceived historical injustice that people of colour had experienced in the country. all of this anxiety is mixed up with, will he live and what is the pushback going to be? we are seeing the push back now. the right is running roughshod. yes. are you pessimistic about america? no, i'm not pessimistic. it's just that i don't focus wholly on the aspirational as a writer. i think that everyone has to do what works for them and it's very important for us to have books that look at how things could be and it's just that these two novels, i felt it more important to talk about things as they are now and to find a way to talk about the difficulties we are facing as a society, right now, in this moment. i want someone who reads the novel to walk away, any of my works, to walk away with a slightly different perspective and perhaps a little bit more of an opening in their heart, and for me that means i have to have
10:56 am
some of the criticism as well as the hook. there has to be a movement in the book were there to be a movement in the reader. thank you forjoining us on talking books. t geronimojohnson, thank you! hello, there. yesterday, the ist of september was glorious across england, warm sunshine, more cloud north and west. the best of the sunshine across these, more cloud further west, outbreaks of rain pushing into the northwest. courtesy of this weather system bringing strong winds and rain to northern
10:57 am
ireland and western scotland. high—pressure dominating for most, the best of the sunshine in the east of england, the north—east of scotland, more cloud further west, the outbreaks of rain pushing into western northern ireland and western scotland. across england and wales more cloud across western england and wales than yesterday, quite warm, 22—23 degrees, best of the sunshine come on broken in places in eastern england, 25—26d. the west of the pennines, more cloud, more sunshine in eastern scotland, especially the north—east, warm and sunday. turning wet and windy for western scotland and northern ireland. this weather front sinking south and east through the night, elsewhere, dry with clear skies, clear and much cooler conditions fishing in for scotland and northern ireland, across the south—east, temperatures 9—10d, for most double
10:58 am
figures. for monday, this weather front straddling central parts of the country, continuing to weaken as it moves south and east, that building area of high pressure, the dividing line between something cooler and fresher to the northwest, warmer and more humid cooler and fresher to the northwest, warmerand more humid in cooler and fresher to the northwest, warmer and more humid in the south—east. for monday, three way split owing on, the weather front straddling central areas bringing cloud and rain, slowly moving south—east. behind it something much bite for scotland and northern ireland, cooler and fresher, iii—17d, head of the rain, another one day for the south—east, sunny spells, 23-25d. this for the south—east, sunny spells, 23—25d. this weather front moving south—east, introducing cool eric to us south—east, introducing cool eric to us all, largely dry with variable cloud, spells sunshine, the same on wednesday, high—pressure largely dominating for the weekend, dry, variable amounts of cloud, some sunshine, but feeling a bit cooler. this is bbc news.
10:59 am
the headlines: theresa may says she will not give in to calls for another referendum, which ceases to be a gross betrayal. —— which she says would be a gross betrayal. the shadow chancellor says the labour party will reach an agreement to tackle concerns over anti—semitism. we will protectjewish members of our party from any form of abuse and anti—semitism and we will take action as well, and that's what's happening. hundreds of prison staff caught smuggling drugs, weapons and mobile phones into prisons. music plays bono loses his voice onstage, and u2 are forced to abandon last night's concert in berlin. and at 11:30am we'll look at some of the week's stories in more depth in dateline london.
11:00 am

74 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on