of his country's relationship with russia. it comes as the two nations prepare forjoint millitary exercises for the first time. russia claims it will be the biggest military exercises since the soviet era, with 300,000 soliders taking part. america's east coast prepares for hurricane florence. the category four storm heads towards the carolinas, with winds of 225 km/h. over a million people have heeded a warning and evacuated coastal areas. and this video is trending on bbc.com. a stash of gold roman coins have been discovered during excavation work in a theatre basement in the northern italian town of como. all 300 coins were perfectly preserved. they date back to around the fifth century. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news: hardtalk, with spain's foreign affairs minister, josep borrell. weclome to hardtalk,

i'm stephen sackur. today my guest at the ambrosetti forum in northern italy is spain's foreign minister, josep borrell. spain has been through a tumultuous year, dominated by the political stand—off in catalonia and a series of political scandals which have left the socialist party in power. josep borrell is a catalan, but he's adamantly opposed to catalan independence. so does he bring any fresh solutions to spain's intractable problems? josep borrell, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. you are part of a new spanish government that's been in power

for three months or so... 100 days. yes. you have been wrestling with the problem that has dogged spain for so long now, that is the problem of catalonia. and, in the time you've had, you have signally failed to change the dynamic, to change the crisis. why is that? the crisis is a structural one, it's going to last. it has been in the cocoon for many, many time, without the central government doing nothing about it, just waiting and seeing, sitting and waiting. now we've found a situation where an important part of the catalan population has already disconnected psychologically about the idea of spain. but they are not a majority. i am very sad when people say catalonia is split in two parts. but i come back to the point about how to change the dynamic. i would put it to you that

when prime minister pedro sanchez appointed you to a very senior position in the government, that was a signal to catalans that he was not interested in reaching out in a new way, because you are seen in catalonia, and of course you are catalan, you are seen in catalonia as a man who has been adamantly opposed to all of the claims of the independence movement. well, i wouldn't say that. i hope that the prime minister appointed me as minister for foreign affairs for something more than that! maybe for my european experience, and because i've been president of the european parliament. i have quite a bigger record than just opposing catalonian independency. you're right, but of course catalans read the detail,

and you are a man who, for example, has dismissed the current leader of the catalan regional government, quim torra, as a man worse than marine le pen. that was your phrase for him. no, exactly my phrase was mr torra could not be part of an electoral list of marine le pen, because marine le pen took out, threw out of the electoral list people for saying much less than torra. so your message to those who support catalan independence is they are, in essence, part of an unacceptable antidemocratic, far—right political movement, and they regard that as libellous, wrong and a complete misreading of what the catala ns want. i never said that. catalan independency is half of the population,

two million people, and in two million people, you find every kind of people. you find people who are the way you are describing. and others that are not at all like this. let's talk about the thing that i've said, not about the things they say i've said. for example, i said once that catalan society is wounded. big wounds. we have to heal them. but before healing them, we have to disinfect the wounds. the translation of these people has been said that i said we have to disinfect catalonia, which is not exactly the same thing. this is a fascinating discussion because at the back of my mind, i have to keep telling myself, "don't forget the foreign minister is himself 100% catalan." so let me ask you just a very basic question, do you regard catalonia

as a region or a nation? a nation. quite clear? yeah. you also recognise, as spain did in a un covenant from 1976, which spain signed, you recognise the right of people to have self—determination. so if you recognise that right, and you recognise that catalonia is indeed a nation, then i am struggling to understand how you cannot allow the catalonian people an authorised referendum on their right to self—determination. let's once again use the right words. it's not auto—determination, it is secession. first, the spanish constitution doesn't allow for it. there is a sentence of the constitutional court saying clearly you can ask about secession, you can ask about secession, but every question you want to put about it has to be done on the framework of a constitutional change.

second, there's nothing in the international law that gives catalonia the right to secession, in spite that mr torra saying that every day, is completely false. only in abyssinia, ethiopia maybe, or some islands in the caribbeans, the right to secession is recognised. in international law, there is no basis at all for that. there are some lawyers who disagree with your take on that. of course. but in a way, this is about politics as much as it is about a fine reading of the law. what do you think it says.... a fine reading of the law is quite important. it's not unimportant, i agree with you, but politics is important too. what do you think it says about spain that today you have in spanish prison nine activists, catalan politicians who it seems

are going to face trial on charges of sedition and rebellion in october. what is that saying about spain to the international community? because frankly it looks like political show trials. i personally would prefer these people to be unconditionally free. i think there are other ways of taking care that they don't fly. so why does... getting back to the basic question... that's my personal opinion. your government and its responsibility to find new ways of tackling the catalan crisis, why doesn't your government pardon these people? tell the authorities that these people are going to be pardoned, they should be released and now, and then start to talk to them. have you heard about division of powers? in spain, there is a division of powers. it is a judge who has taken this decision, the parliament had nothing to do with it. so you're going to see

those trials go ahead, you're going to see carles puigdemont, for example, staying in brussels, germany, wherever he chooses to be, with your government deperately seeking extradition and being rebuffed by the german courts. and the international perception of spain is going to be that of a country that simply cannot accept the desire of what you call a nation within your state to get a vote on its own future. once again, catalonians are split into two parts, don't think of catalonia as a homogenous thing, you know? catalonia wants. i'm talking of the name of catalonia when i say everything. 47% of the people voted for independency. it's not even half the population. minister, give them the authorised vote, which madrid will sanction, and then let's see.

and if you're right, then of course, the secession will not happen. do you think in a country like spain we have to obey the sentences of the constitutional court? do you think we have to be the sentences of the constitutional court in a country who ranks among the 20 full democracies in the world? yes? but in this case, we can do it, but in the framework of a constitutional change. you said yourself, quoting you from the financial times three months ago, "the secessionists have successfully revived the black legend," as you called it, tying spain to the repression of franco, even the spanish inquisition back in history. you said, "we are losing the information war." in this sort of conversation today, do you think you are winning the information war? i am not fighting against you. no, but the point is, you're trying to win in the court of public opinion in your own country, the catalonia

and the wider world. that's why i'm here. do you have a winning message do you think? we have to start changing the trend. look at the press, we analyse the press every day, and we analyse what the government says. it's clear that when people listen to mr torra saying the catalan people is being suffering the same kind of situation as the kurds in turkey, or like the moroccans in greece, and we want to become the new kosovo, well, people start thinking that i'm not really serious. i guess the analogy that people would draw, the comparison, would be scotland. the british government gave the scots the right to vote on their own future. in the end, the scots voted to stay in part of the union, the united kingdom. scotland is the comparison. not the right, not the right. today, the scottish people

are asking for a new referendum, and mrs may is saying no. if they had the right, they shouldn't be asking for permission. let's talk about other key challenges facing your nation today, no doubt one of them is migration. it's a problem for many different countries around europe, but particularly pressing in spain, where you've seen the number of immigrants arriving this yearspiralup to... i think it stands now at something like 27,000, far higher than last year. to be exact, 3a,000. 3a,000 now. it's not so much. not so much? it represents a rise of well over 100% on the same time last year. you know, the rate of change depends on the initial position of the variable. if you are at zero and you go to one, it's a big increase. but in absolute terms, it has been a peak in the summer. every summer is a peak. now it seems things seem to be going back to more or less a stationary position.

it's interesting what your government has decided to do, premier sanchez has essentially tried to differentiate himself from what we here in italy, for example, where we sit today, whether government has refused to take any more migrant boats that have been full of people trying to escape from north africa. italy won't take them. spain has taken two or three of those boats in a humanitarian gesture. pedro sanchez refuses to play the populist game. do you think politically, in spain, that's going to cause him and you are a problem? maybe. we will face it. pedro sanchez represents today a strong pro—european stance, and a strong anti—populism stance. we can make mistakes, but our idea is clear. about catalonia, about immigration, about europe, about everything.

we are not looking for applause, we try to present things in a rational way. going back to catalonia, if you'll allow me, let me give you another example. about migration, what pedro sanchez has done is to produce a kind of electrical shock. the europeans were kind of looking on the other side, and not helping italy. i understand italians. they have been left alone for years in front of a migration that could not manage themselves. pedro sanchez came and said, "we have to face the problem altogether," and that's happening. the problem is your refugee centres, your migrant detention centres are full. your facilities now are being overwhelmed. the popular party, led by pablo casado, is now saying that your policies risk making spain a magnet, a pull factorfor more

and more immigrants. he said there are one million people in north africa who are now looking to come to spain. you could be overwhelmed, you could suffer the consequences that angela merkel suffered in 2015 in germany when she said, "we must keep our borders open." and they got 1.5 million people, don't exaggerate. we're talking about 35,000 on one side, 1.5 million on the other. i think things are different. magnet? did you say a magnet? the whole of europe is a magnet for african youth. go to senegal, look at the tv, there there is a magnet. they don't need anything more than that. when your rival, mr casado says

this, he says, "it's fundamentally not for spain to absorb these people looking for a better life in europe. we have to say no, even if it's not politically correct to do so." what is your response? we have to make a clear distinction between asylum seekers and irregular migrants who don't have the right to a silent. we have to make a clear and quick distinction among them and we have to send back the people who don't deserve asylum. people have to understand that with our demographic, we need migrants, but we need migrants in a regular and organised way. i just wonder whether you listen to the voices, i picked this up from the spanish press the other day, just one typical voice from the south of your country, from a place called la linea, which is close to a detention centre, it is a 34—year—old builder, a construction worker said this to the press, "we in the spain risk becoming the fools of europe welcoming whoever wants to come. we cannot afford these policies." once again, these figures,

the realities, the facts, are not in a way this man is describing. you know better than me that in europe today and other parts of the world, data, facts, are not necessarily as important to politics as emotions, to the way people feel. i am telling you about how evidence is changing of peoples feelings in spain. i can tell also the feeling of people, putting the migrants in the gymnasium, installations, they are offering hospitality, i can tell you about how many spaniards feel solidarity. in spain there is no le pen, not 0rban, not salvini, this new prime minister in austria, not wilders. really? spain is fundamentally different from the rest of europe? ? where is the spanish le pen,

where is spanish wilders, where is spanish salvini? we are not. it is interesting that spain has a socialist government. one could argue it is partly by accident because of political scandal which it did for the popular party and prime minister rajoy, but nonetheless, you are in power now as the socialist party, and you only have 80 something seats in parliament of 300, but you are in power. do you think that you can reverse the trend we see in much of europe where traditional, social democratic, centre—left parties, are doing disastrously badly? how do you change that dynamic? we have to punch above our weight. once upon a time during philippe gonzales‘ government, spain was...

that is when the socialist party was power. and it played an important role in europe. powerful and playing an important part in europe. with the greatest respect, that was in the 80s and 90s, here we are in 2018, yes you are in power at a minority government with an uncertain future, my question to you is that you change the trajectory for centre—left social democratic politics? because in most of europe, these parties, like yours, are in disastrous shape. i wouldn't say disaster, but bad. look, social democracy was a 40% party, 40% of the vote everywhere, everywhere. and now we are a party of 20% of the vote, everywhere. for sure, this is not going to be changed overnight. but portugal and spain can represent the renewals of social democracy. i think it is an opportunity. here is an interesting comment from an analyst who has been consulting for the spd, the social democratic party in germany, michael broening,

he says "social democratic parties in europe have forgotten how to mobilise." we see the far right mobilising, we even see the out and out left represented by people likejeremy corbyn in the uk, mobilising. what we don't see is traditional, old school parties like yours really mobilising, particularly young people. i agree with that diagnosis. i think social democracy has become an establishment party... you are part of the elite, part of the status quo. look at you, with all due respect, a long and distinguished career. you were of the most senior figures in the european parliament, your government service goes back to philippe gonzalez, you are part of spain's elite. what is bad with that? we are in an era of anti—elite politics. that is what's bad with that.

this is a bad trend on the politics in europe. but that is a classic elitist thing to say! it is how people feel right now, they are sick of the status quo of people like you. i understand very well, i am a cosmopolitan nomad. i am travelling here and there, i am part of elite. and i understand very well that people who have been damaged by the consequences of globalisation don't feel protected by social democracy. we have cut all links with popular classes. that can be mended. and i think the message sanchez of the government, with a lot of new young people, not old people like me with maybe too much experience are in of mood. we have to reconstruct our link with popular classes and our capacity of mobilisation. your diagnosis is very good, i share it totally. before we end, i must touch

upon another challenge facing not just spain, but the entire eu, that is brexit. we in britain may be somewhat obsessed and preoccupied with it, but it does matter to europe too. ijust spoke here in italy to matteo salvini, perhaps the most powerful politician in the europe today. and he said he believes that he believes the eu is trying to swindle, to cheat britain from its own self—determination, its own will expressed in a referendum. he says france and germany are not being sufficiently helpful and he would like to see more concessions made to britain to find a good deal to allow britain to leave with a deal that it can work with. where do you sit on that? this spanish government is working to reach an agreement. we believe no agreement is the worst solution, and we are putting on the table constructive proposals. i don't know which are the proposals for mr salvini.

in essence, i suppose it gets down to this. mr macron in france insists there will be no cherry picking, theresa may says we want parts of the single market, we want free trade in goods, but we will not accept the free movement of people. are you prepared to do a deal on that? no. clearly no. i don't think any country in europe can accept to split the freedoms, the fourfreedome, which bases the european unions. these freedoms, i take this because i like it, this one i don't like it, i don't take it. no, it will not be like this. what are you sacred of? why are you so worried that giving britain a bespoke deal, if i can put it that way, be so detrimental, so damaging to the eu? it is a matter of political project. the eu is not the supermarket, you know? it is a matter of political project.

the eu is not the supermarket, you know? but is the eu so fragile, so weak, that if britain gets a bespoke deal, it could lead to the collapse of the entire union? i don't think so. no. what is the problem? britain is a powerful, powerful neighbour, the most important trading partner on the continent. and i regret that it is leaving. i regret deeply. i think, from my point of view, they make a big mistake and it is up to them to decide. we have to understand europe is a project, that this is not a supermarket, i take this, no. you are part of it or you are not part of it. you are not part of it, we will have the best possible relations. believe me, the spanish government is working very hard to reach an agreement because if not, we will suffer, spain. but i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. a pleasure. i thank you for all of your questions. foreign minister, thank you very much indeed. hello there.

a full uk weather forecast coming up in a moment, but first of all the latest on that massive hurricane that's heading towards the eastern side of united states. it is of course hurricane florence. it is a category for hurricane, sustained winds of 140 mph but is forecast to strengthen, with wind gusts getting up to 185 mph over the next 2a horus or so. it will make landfall friday morning in north carolina, but the effectgs will be felt up and down the mid—atlantic coast with the risk of flooding and those damaging winds as well. here in the uk, a cold fornt sinking its way slowly southwards today and that will have an effect on the temperatures. yesterday we saw highs of 25 degrees in both london and exeter as well, but today we are looking at highs of around 18 degrees. a 7 degree celsius drop in temperature, not that it will feel cold, but feel a good deal cooler. this is how we have the weather over the next few hours for the early risers.

a lot of cloud around and outbreaks of rain. always heaviest across north—east england to the north—west of wales as well, but there will be plenty of heavy showers working into north—west scotland over the next few hours, with a slice of clearer weather across northern ireland, northern england and eastern scotland. it's here where we will have those temperatures dipping down into single figures, mild further south, 15 degrees below in london. the low in london. looking at the weather picture through the rest of wednesday, our cold front sinks its way southwards, the rain becomes increasingly light and patchy, but there will probably some left over across parts of south—east england well into the afternoon. there'll be some blustery showers for western scotland, but in between, a slice of sunnier weather, but temperatures a good deal lower in the south, highs expected to reach 18 celsius. looking at the weather picture to wednesday evening and overnight, our rain clears away from south—east england. heavy rain into the north—west of scotland, but there will be clear skies for the bulk of england and wales and it will be one of the cooler nights that we have seen so far this september, with temperatures across eastern parts of england around 3 or 4 degrees in the coldest areas. quite a chilly start of the day

on thursday but there will be plenty of sunshine around here. a band of rain pushes southwards across scotland and northern ireland, weakening as it does so, just a few spots possible across cumbria to take us into the afternoon, but for many of us it is a dry day, showers again affecting western parts of scotland, though. temperatures in the sunshine, about 15 degrees for aberdeen and edinburgh, 21 degrees in london. bit more sunshine, so starting to feel warmer. reasonable sunshine across southern england as we head through the weekend, but there will be some heavy outbreaks of rain across the north—west of the uk this weekend. that is your weather. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: china's president says the relationship with russia is more important than ever, as they hold joint millitary exercises for the first time. america's east coast prepares for hurricane florence. the category four storm heads towards the carolinas, with winds of 225 km/h. i'm rico hizon in london.

also in the programme: india's supreme court dismisses an appeal to stop forest rangers killing a tiger blamed for the deaths of several people. and cooking up a storm. singapore's bid to seek unesco recognition for its street food culture stirs up the fury of some malaysian chefs.