this is bbc news. the headlines — tyhoon mangkhut is continuing to better china's most populous province of guangdong — after wreaking havoc in the philippines and hong kong. at least 2.5 million people have been moved out of the typhoon‘s path. authorities have cancelled hundreds of flights and closed all coastal resorts. police in the us state of north carolina are warning residents to "stay off the roads" as storm florence continues to drop record levels of rainfall. the downgraded hurricane has already been blamed for 16 deaths. hundreds of people have been rescued and thousands are still in emergency shelters. a leading democrat senator is calling for a delay in considering, president trump's nominee for the us supreme court. brett kavanaugh denies allegations of sexual misconduct, from his days as a high school student. dianne feinstein says the appintment should be put on hold until after an investigation. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. hello, and welcome to

hardtalk, i'm shaun ley. sense the party's though, obey the party's words, follow the party's lead. the words printed in red on a building at an interment camp in china. there are lots of those in xinjiang, one of the most wealthy provinces in china and also one of its most restive. it's home to the uighur ethnic group and there are reports of over a million people in detention. the government says the camps need to re—educate people. they say they are fighting islamic terror in the region. nury turkel is chairman of the uyghur human rights project. so is he being duped or is china duping the rest of the world? nury turkel, welcome to hardtalk.

can you describe for me the experience of being a uighur in xinjiang province these days? imagine you go to church on sunday and you have to go through body scans and imagine that you get up and one morning, the government wants you to marry off your daughter to someone, part of the oppressed ethnic group. imagine that you don't have anyone to confide in, even in your private life and imagine you are forced to denounce your religion and walk away from your centuries old tradition, such as the uighurs. what is happening in the uighurs‘ homeland of east turkestan

is cultural revolution on steroids. the chinese government has been so brutal, particularly in the last 16, 18 months, locked up more than 10% of the population according to various reports. we are talking about a population of 10 million people so you are talking about io%, i million uighurs in detention. the numbers could be higher. a human rights organisation published a report recently estimating 3.3 million people affected. the chinese government has been carrying out this internment camp, so—called re—education programme in three ways. one, they lock you up and impose a heavy sentence of 10—15 years. you basically go through jail time. the second group of people who have been subjected to this is daily re—education. you go there and come home at night. and the third one is the ones who are kept in high walls and barbed wire. they go to a daily routine pronouncing their religious

background, studying the thoughts of xi. that is the president, xijinping? exactly. and watching anti—separatist video. singing chinese communist songs, stuff like that. you haven't lived in china for more than 20 years now. how can you know this apart from through second and third—hand accounts? i follow the news and i talk to people who are able to leave the country in recent years. i have done some asylum were and have spoken to some new generation uighurs in the united states. this is what people tell you as they get out? there is a description from a radio

journalist who talks about what it means for her. she works for the us funded radio free asia and says more than two dozen other relatives are missing, her brother was detained and her parents both elderly and suffering, went missing. heraunt, cousins, children and more than 20 people swept up by the authorities. i found out later they had all been detained on the same day. i happen to know this family from my childhood years. this particular reporter's father is my father's friend. i saw him in real time as a child. he trained as an anthropologist. very well revered and respected. what the chinese government has a problem with people like him is the fact that they are promoting in a way to intellectual methods to make the uighurs deal pride,

proud of their ethnic cultural heritage. you were born yourself in a labour camp at the beginning of the 1970s. you were in a labour camp because your parents were persecuted during the cultural revolution. is xinjiang going through something similar again? it is inconceivable that we talk about this in 2018. history is taking a very strange turn and repeating itself. i was born at the height of the cultural revolution in a similar re—education camp. my mother was taken in when she was six months pregnant with me and we were released about 45 months after she gave birth to me. during that period, we both suffered a very difficult time, health issues, daily humiliation, physical and verbal abuses and it's just mind—boggling and hard to believe we are talking about similar situations taking place 47 years later. what does this mean to you personally?

you haven't lived in china since 1995 but have family there. like my fellow uighurs, i have been going through a very difficult time. simply because the chinese government effectively exported its oppression to uighurs who are living as a free person like myself, as a citizen of the civilised world. you try to have a normal life but you can't, thinking that your family members are suffering and you are physically and financially capable and yet you can't be at their bedside if they're suffering a health issue. what some of the uighurs are missing is funerals. my family situation, my mother has seven grandchildren. she was able to hold only two of them. you can't really talk

about your current situation. that must even in itself be quite difficult. it is difficult in two ways. one, the chinese government has created a fear of appraisal in uighur citizens of the western world's mind because of the fear, not many uighurs would be willing to come and tell their family stories because you never know, oppressed people and very repressive governments, you never know what they will do to your family and doing the things like i have been doing is a conscionable thing to do. i'm feeling proud to be a voice for the voiceless, millions of voiceless uighur people back home. you told us as one of the examples is what you see as the kind of repression of uighurs in china, that they are being told to study the thought of xi jinping, and one uighur, a former inmate of a detention camp, in august was quoted

by the wall streetjournal saying, we should give thanks not to allah but xijinping. that's not unusual. all around china, people are told to study the thoughts of the president. the president is almost deified in china now. that's not special to the uighurs. how does that count as oppression? let's talk about what the chinese government's motives and intentions are. can you answer that question? the chinese government is using east turkestan, uighur lives as a laboratory for total surveillance, brutal repression and if we are not careful, and i'm saying this to the chinese citizens in other parts of china. this will be exported. similar methods in tibet. and the new sheriff in town who is running the show used to be the head of hte communist party.

that's your explanation that in the last 18 months, things have become that much harder. he has brought the techniques he developed in tibet to his newjob in your province. the chinese government has pilot programmes. they apply and implement in one region. if it works, they start enforcing it in other. tibet and east turkestan has been a kind of playground for the pilot programme. you use the phrase east turkestan and i'm talking about xinjiang. there is a basic difference here for you and some other uighurs, you don't really accept that this chinese province is part of china. you want it to be part of a separate uighur state in east turkestan. east turkestan is an historic name for the uighurs, it has a tremendous significance. the uighurs have had two republics, the first in 1933 and the second in 19114. but they didn't last very long, did they?

about a year for the first and at the most five years for the second. a very short period in a very long history. but because of that proud history that uighurs cherish, they like call their homeland as east turkestan but xinjiang can be translated as "new dominion", and "new frontier", and that is a name that has been imposed by communist china and the uighurs resent that name. that is what china says, a lot of this is about problems that have been caused on the ground by uighurs and they give examples. they say there is nothing arbitrary about the detention camps. there are vocational training centres. there is no such thing as re—education centres in xinjiang and they say the relocation, [161,000 people at the beginning of the first three months of this year, to quote the global times newspaper, is to improve social stability and alleviate poverty. those are good ambitions. that is a bogus best

and here is why. the chinese government has stated goal. xijinping is the1—man show in the country. he does not want to be blamed for anything but results in political disaster because it will have a domino effect in his leadership role. and there is some racism in this. the chinese government believes that uighurs at no national identity, they will present a political threat in the future so they want to take a preventive measure to forcibly assimilate the uighurs. that's not what the chinese say. china's foreign ministry says that anyone of all ethnicities in xinjiang live and work in peace and contentment. but they have to say that because they have to find a way to justify the brutality when they implement it. how would they be able to justify locking up more than 10% of the population? we know that the re—education of what? the re—education of someone

transferring from one ethnic group to atheist or non— religious believer? what are they trying to do? this term itself is problematic. it is propaganda. the chinese government can say anything but making that kind of statement three times does not make it true. let's talk about another reason that the chinese give for the actions they take. they warn about those being deceived by religious extremism. they'll be assisted by resettlement and re—education, that is how the chinese delegation to the un in geneva puts it and when you say again this incredible figure, and nobody would argue with this, the incredible figure of 21% of all arrests on china being in xinjiang which is only 1.5% of the whole population, but they then point to the violence and the violence there that has been considerable, hasn't it? i will give you some examples. it will be interesting

to hear your response. a bomb and knife attack at urumqi south railway station. 2 dead, 79 injured. 31 killed and 90 more injured when two cars crashed through an urumqi market and explosives were tossed into the crowd. a knife—wielding gang attacks a police station and government office in yarkand, 96 dead. 50 die in blasts in luntai county, outside police stations, a market and a shop. all those attacks in one year alone. there is violence in that province and it's not coming from the government. that does not give the chinese governmentjustification to lock up poets, university professors, scholars, musicians, athletes in concentration camps. the british government did it in northern ireland in the 1970s. "we are worried some of these people might turn to violence so we'll put them in prison." we should learn the lesson from history. the united states have done it

but it does not make it right. the chinese government has done three things very skilfully. they have been effectively playing into people's emotions in the west. the uk, european countries, the united states... i do want to deal with that because it is important, but let mejust deal with the emotions of people who live in that region and fear that kind violence. when the government says to them, we hold onto the belief that keeping to all away from xinjiang is the greatest human right, you wouldn't dispute that, would you ? you are a human rights advocate yourself, keeping people safe, letting them feel that they are not in danger when they walk out their front door is actually a fundamental responsibility. that is a theory, that is what they say that they are doing. you don't believe them? i don't believe it because they are trying to create a total surveillance state, they are trying to forcibly assimilate the uighurs. if anyone stands in the way, we'll end up in concentration camps. last april, they introduced

the draconian ‘deextremification' measure, that sanctions some of the most acceptable and normal behaviours in society — the growing of a beard and adhering to a halal diet, and naming children with religious names. that sort of stuff has been — so the chinese government has been paving the way for today's nightmare for some time. let me repeat that point, and that is that the chinese government believes that there are groups who claim to be uighur campaigners who are prepared to use violence. there was an attack in beijing in october 2013 in which half a dozen people were killed, several dozen people were injured. it was claimed by the east turkestan islamic party. that was formed by uighurs who had fled china for afghanistan and pakistan, and it said it was responsible for the attacks. an american analytical company said

claims may be exaggerated, but the threat the turkestan islamic party poses cannot be ignored. the chinese government can say the same thing 15 times. that's not the chinese government. that's american analysts. the source of this information is the chinese government because tip or etim, all of it was enlisted in a terrorist designation list at the request of the chinese government. well, the us government said that the east turkestan islamic movement, which uses the name tip, as you know, these groups are all quite overlapping, is the most militant of the uighur separatist groups. that is 12 years ago. so they have reformed, have they? no, they didn't reform. china is showing its true colours. the chinese government...one

of the countries that effectively utilised 9/11 to their benefit is the chinese government, perhaps the most effectively utilised government is the chinese government. yeah, but you told me i was out of date. i'll tell you, though, 15 years later, the british government listed both organisations, or if it is one organisation, as a terrorist group. islamic terrorist and separatist organisation. this isjuly 2016, quoted by reuters, trying to create an independent caliphate. that kind of rhetoric has been floating around without hard evidence. so you think the west is being duped? duped, yes. it's a political decision. when you talk to western government officials, this is one of the problems i'd like to highlight here. because of the chinese government's strategic approach to creating hysteria, some of the good people in the national security intelligence communities in the uk and the united states and elsewhere have tapped into the chinese rhetoric, believing that china and the west are fighting a similar type of fight against terrorism, which defeats the logic.

trouble is, i mean, whether or not you accept that some uighurs in exile are keeping some very unpleasant company, a study said they are forging strategic alliances with leading jihadist organisations affiliated with al qaeda and the taliban. there was a report only this week, mid—august 2018, that the chinese special envoy to syria is worried about uighurs having gone to fight there. even if you say that all that is propaganda, for people living in china, they will believe, won't they, what the global times, the state—owned tabloid says, that the crackdown in your province, your home province, has salvaged it and it has avoided the fate of becoming china's syria or china's libya? as you know, there are sizeable western individuals who joined the forces in syria.

but none of the western governments have been setting up internment camps for anyone who might be having tendencies to take up arms against the western interests. do you know what china means by an abnormally long beard? that is...i've seen religious figures in christian and jewish communities, especially in new york, when you walk around some parts of new york, you will see a jewish individual with a long beard. that sort of beard is considered a sign of extremism in china. so these are among the measures that have been, particularly in the last year and a half or so, introduced? that includes growing a beard for style. but it is aimed, in your view, at visible identification of somebody as a uighur? yeah, because that would make you look different than the chinese. another reference has been to dissuade people who cover their bodies and veil their faces from entering railway stations and airports.

that is happening too, is it? uighurs are easy to identify. most uighurs look eurasian. they have a high ridged nose, fair skin, and can easily be identified by anyone in china. that actually makes them more vulnerable in society for racial discrimination. last october, president xi told the party conference that it must uphold the principle that religions in china must be chinese in orientation and provide active guidance to religion so they can adapt themselves to the socialist society. the truth is it's notjust muslims who experience that, is it? it's christians, it's other religious denominations. they are not singling out the uighurs. that is the exact point that i want the audience to know. there is a clear and present danger that this brutal policy will be expended to... they're testing the ground.

the uighurs‘ homeland, and their lives have been a testing ground for future policies, oppressive policies will not only stay in china, will be exported to china—related countries around the world. president trump sees president xi jinping as an ally. he has gone so far as to call him a friend. angela merkel, the german chancellor, has been to china i think 11 times in 12 years. on no occasion has she raised the plight of the uighur. do you have any hope at all that the trump administration is going to act on your concerns? the trump administration have already acted. vice president mike pence raised the deteriorating uighur human rights situation in a public speech in washington. and the us ambassador, un ambassador kelley currie has regularly been raising it. she testified a couple of weeks ago at the united states congress, highlighting the worsening uighur human rights situation.

we know that president trump doesn't always do the same as his colleagues. he told lou dobbs in fox news last year, "some people might call xijinping the king of china, he is a very powerful man, i happen to think he is a very good person." we have to separate what president trump views about the leader of china. the united states has a panel of experts in the united states government who work on china. so i don't know where president trump's mind is heading to when it comes to china and xijinping, but i do believe he has a good team of experts in the government who understands the issue. one last question. murat uyghur, who now lives in finland, says of the internment camps, "they're like a black hole, people go in, they do not come out. i am afraid of the worst now." what are you afraid of? i am afraid of mass murder because we do not know — other than a few key individuals who managed to leave the camps, people are not leaving. where have those 1

million people gone? what are they being charged of? it's basically a no rights zone, as the un official perfectly pointed out. you have no access to lawyer, you have no access to judicial process, and there is no access to family members, there is no access to proper medical care, that's why we've seen people leaving as a dead person from the camps. so i am worried, and also there's an important part of my worry is that the chinese government has been building a crematoria... crematoria. crematoria, and they're hiring people to work on those facilities. why are they building, all of a sudden, in such places? in — traditionally american academics, if i may finish, have been very careful in their criticism of the chinese government. recently, one of the well—respected american academics said publicly, twice, that he worried there will be a mass murder in those camps. and you worry too.

nury turkel of the uyghur human rights project in washington, dc, thank you for being with us on hardtalk. thank you very much. thank you. hello. there is some turbulent weather in the forecast over the next few days and it is mainly down to this area of cloud. it is the remnants of what was hurricane helene, it is no longer a hurricane, but embedded in this is a lot of tropical energy. what that will do is strengthen the winds over the coming days. you see this area of low pressure tracking it's way northwards to western part of the uk, the squeeze in the isobars means there will be strong winds, gales and heavy rain,

but also ahead of it is drawing up some very warm, tropical air and that will extend all the way northwards into parts of northern ireland and southern scotland over the next few days. yes, it is going to be windy. there will be gales at times, some spells of heavy rain, particularly the further north and west you are, further south and east, dry and warm as well. here is how monday pans out. further outbreaks of rain across western parts of scotland becoming heavy and more persistent as it works it's way north and eastwards, some of that rain affecting northern ireland, the wind starting to strengthen. across england and wales, aside from one or two showers, most will have a mainly dry day, some spells of sunshine, often cloudy, but feeling warm for many, temperatures between 19 and 23 celsius, 2a or 25 for east anglia and south—east england. as we go from monday night into tuesday, our area of low pressure works its way northwards

across western parts of the uk, notice that squeeze in the isobars will bring strong winds, likely to see gales through irish sea and western coasts, some heavy rain as well, particularly for northern ireland and some of that extending into northern parts of wales, northern england and into scotland. a blustery start to tuesday, these are the wind gusts, the average speeds will be somewhat lower, but it is a windy day for all of us on tuesday and even though the winds do lose some of their strength, we will pick up strong gust particularly for western coasts. could be some rain around for northern parts of scotland, showers for northern ireland, northern england down into wales. again, further south and east it stays mainly dry and it could be quite warm for many, 19 to 23 celsius, perhaps a degree or so higher across south—east england. as we go into wednesday, our area of low pressure is in the north of the uk, but on its southern flank we have some very strong winds. we could see gusts of 60 or 70 mph across parts of northern england, southern parts of scotland on wednesday. so it's a windy day.

heavy spells of rain across northern england, northern ireland and parts of scotland, still very little rain further south and east, where it again it will stay fairly warm. some unsettled conditions over the next few days. this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock. our top story: —— our top stories: just six months until brexit — the bbc hears exclusively from britain's prime minister and her promise to lead britain out of europe. typhoon mangkhut lashes parts of southern china. nearly 2.5 million people are evacuated from their homes in guangdong province. leading democrats calls for a delay in considering president trump's nominee for the us supreme court. brett kavanaugh denies allegations of sexual misconduct. is the trade war between the us and china about to get a lot worse? president trump's new tariffs on chinese products could be announced as soon as today. also in business briefing,

we'll have the latest on amazon, as it investigates claims its employees accepted bribes