hello. it's thursday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. welcome to the programme. a leading expert calls for the nhs to register everyone who has been fitted with mesh and publish complication rates. it comes after our programme revealed up to 170,000 patients in england could be affected by complications, including chronic pain and problems walking, after having hernia mesh repairs. i'm sat here now and i'm in pain. i feel like something is digging into me, i'm being pulled, ifeel like what to collapse. you go from doing 24 hours of training a week to barely being able to walk the supermarket. i wouldst told mine would dissolve in the tissue would grow through it. the surgeon told you that? it is definitely still there. more than 200 people contacted our programme after we brought you that story yesterday. we'll talk to some of them. for the first time since two guide leaders were expelled from the organisation after they criticised its policy

on including children who were born as boys but identify as girls — we'll hear from a transgender girl and her mum about her experience in the brownies. it meant a lot because it was something all her friends were doing, they were all at rainbows and then all brownies, she would have been excluded and it would have hurt her. lily's mum told this programme she supports the decision to expel the two volunteers after they campaigned against its equality and diversity policy. and olympic gold medallist dame kelly holmes says the army needs to do more to tackle inequality between men and women. shejoined the army when she was 18 before leaving to pursue her athletics career and hasjust been made an honorary colonel. she's here in the studio. hello.

welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. do you think you didn't get a job because you asked about the company's parental leave policy in the interview? ten big name companies have now said they'll publish their policies online — so you'll know what the benefits are before you apply for the job. the liberal democrat mp jo swinson is calling for all companies employing more than 250 people to make this information easily available. did you ask about maternity or paternity cover when applying for a job? do you think it made it look like you were thinking of having a baby and that's why you didn't get thejob? do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about — use the hashtag #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you ll be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today. one of the men accused of the salisbury nerve agent poisoning has been named as a high ranking russian military officer. the uk—based online investigation website, bellingcat, claims the man who was known

as ruslan boshirov, is actually a decorated colonel who fought in chechnya. jon donnison reports. he called himself ruslan boshirov, but this is who he really is. the online investigative journalist site bellingcat says he was born in 1978. he called himself ruslan boshirov when he arrived in the uk in march. he said he was a tourist. but this is who it's thought he really is, colonel anatoliy chepiga, a russian military intelligence officer. the online investigative journalist

the site bellingcat said he was born in 1978. he is thought to have fought with the russian military in chechnya and was awarded russia's highest decoration, hero of the russian federation. using the alias ruslan boshirov, the british government believes he travelled to salisbury with another agent, calling himself alexander petrov. their mission, to try to kill sergei skripal using a nerve agent hidden in this perfume bottle. british officials have not commented on bellingcat‘s revelations, but the bbc understands there is no dispute in its identifying of anatoliy chepiga. speaking at the un in new york, theresa may again strongly attacked russia's actions. in response, russia said britain's allegations were "kindergarten stuff". jon donnison, bbc news. 0ur correspondent sarah rainsford is in moscow. any reaction from this latest revelation? the rather predictable russian reaction was to dismiss this evidence outright, to call it false and claim it is a distraction by britain. those latest comments are coming from the foreign ministry spokesperson here, and she said it was no coincidence that she thought that this evidence by bellingcat and its russian partner were released just after theresa may had commented

in the united nations accusing russia again of a chemical weapons attack in salisbury, and then this information from bellingcat came out, and the foreign ministry here is suggesting that that is no coincidence. she said that this was an attack, but this is the position that russia have taken all along. they have accused the uk are behaving as if they were in a kindergarten, telling russia that it needs to produce the evidence, and admitted guilt. sergei lavrov, the foreign minister, said that was nonsense, and again, russian simply denying and continuing its denial. thank you very much, sarah. now let's catch up with the rest of the news. annita mcveigh is in the bbc newsroom. good morning. a review of the ambulance service in england has said that it could save hundreds of millions of pounds a year if it tackled

a number of issues including treating more patients at the scene. the report for the regulator nhs improvement warns that unless the service changes, 999 response times won't improve. currently only two out of ten ambulance trusts are meeting their targets, as our health correspondent dominic hughes reports. ambulance services across england are getting busier. ten different nhs trusts handle 10 million emergency calls a year, most of them lead to an ambulance crew being dispatched. now, a review says some big savings could be made if paramedics are able to treat people closer to the scene. in some areas of the country we are taking more people to hospital then we need to. the effect of that is, people fill the beds up, particularly in the winter, that we need for other people. so critically, keeping that down is the way to do it. that early diagnosis when the paramedic arrives on scene is the critical factor in this. the report into the state of the ambulance service in england found that paramedics are having to work with an ageing fleet of vehicles that

will soon need replacing. levels of sick leave and complaints over bullying and harassment are the highest in the nhs. and there's a wide variation in how trusts use new technology to take calls, dispatch crews and even treat patients. one idea is to allow ambulance crews to directly access online medical information. being able to access patient records at the patient's side clearly makes patient care better in the fact that we can make better clinical decisions and appropriately transport our patients to places of definitive care, keeping them out of emergency departments where they are not necessarily going to get the best treatment. today's report says that with better report for staff and by treating patients closer to the scene, savings of up to half £1 billion of could be achieved. that could improve response times and ease pressure on hard—pressed accident & emergency departments.

dominic hughes, bbc news. a third woman has accused donald trump's supreme court nominee, brett kavanaugh, of serious sexual assault. the allegations are said to be more serious than those which have already been made by two other women. later today, he and the first woman to accuse him, christine blasey ford, will be questioned by a senate committee. mr kavanaugh has described the claims as ridiculous. ten of the uk s biggest companies have agreed to make their parental leave and pay policies public for the first time. it comes as part of a push to force all large firms to publish details of their pay, so that candidates won't have to ask when being interviewed. 0ur correspondent colletta smith reports. where do you see yourself over the next 3—5 years? it's the end of a job interview and you are asked, "is there anything you would like to know from us?" well, some questions mightjust be too tricky, like asking how much you get paid on parental leave, and how long for? while some have decided to go

public off their own bats, the liberal democrats want to make it compulsory for all big companies, in the same way that they have to publish their gender pay gap. this would also require companies of the same size to publish their parental pay policies and i think that that would similarly lead to much more questions being asked. in the boardroom and also, frankly, down in the local cafe when people are talking about their employers, about who has the better policy. this could be harder to implement for smaller companies, but if they see a benefit, then job—hunting for parents and potential parents, might get easier. colletta smith, bbc news. meal replacement diets should be part of nhs treatments to tackle obesity says a leading medicaljournal. a study by the bmj showed that reduced calorie diets consisting of shakes and soups are effective at achieving rapid weight loss in the most severely obese and can reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes. currently the programmes are not available on the nhs, and some experts say they only work

if eating habits change permanently. the heads of 45 universities and colleges have written to the education secretary calling for a ban on companies that sell students custom—written essays and coursework. they say the firms, known as "essay mills", undermine higher education and are unfair to the vast majority of ha rd—working students. the government says it would like universities to do more to tackle the problem. a bank customer has complained after hsbc returned a letter to him asking him to resend it in english. geraint lovgreen wrote to his bank in welsh, informing them of a change of address. he has complained to the welsh language commissioner after the bank told him that they could not respond to his letter because he had written it "in a foreign language". it's been three days since benny the beluga whale was first spotted in the thames — and whale watchers are waiting to see if he's made his way back to sea. animal welfare groups say

they've had no major concerns about the mammal, which was first spotted on tuesday and that he was last seen "swimming strongly" close to the kent coast. fingers crossed. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30. thank you, annita. lots of ways of getting in touch with us throughout the morning. let's catch up with the sport now. good morning. troubles continue at manchester united. is the club big enough manchester united. is the club big enouthose manchester united. is the club big enough jose mourinho and manchester united. is the club big enouthose mourinho and paul pogba? that is a pretty big question, certainly a question for the powers that be at manchester united. as the i’ow that be at manchester united. as the row between paul pogba and jose mourinho just row between paul pogba and jose mourinhojust won't go row between paul pogba and jose mourinho just won't go away at the moment. yesterday they were filmed exchanging some pretty frosty words right at the start of manchester united's training session, and it's been picked up by today's papers. it is clear what the message is, it's

him or me, say the son. it is pretty clear what the journalists think we'll be going on at manchester united, and that for a player who arrived a little over two years ago for a world—record fee, but why, joanna? it's been alleged they fell out because of video that pogba posted on instagram after their defeat derby on tuesday. united lost on penalties, but pogba and some of his were pictured laughing, and the fallout seems to have divided opinion, some suggesting that he should go, while some feel that it is the manager who needs to leave the club. this person saying jose is more disastrous than any player at the club. espn suggesting that the rest of the squad are angry with mourinho, and we will see of this

saga rolls and roles are manchester united. and a busy night in the league cup last night, wonder goal from and a busy night in the league cup last night, wonder goalfrom eden hazard? indeed, a brilliant goal from him, the tie of the third round in this season's efl cup. liverpool have made the best start of the season, but it was chelsea who came from behind late on to inflict their first defeat of the season at anfield last night, and the belgian eden hazard, who is so often a matchwinner for the londoners, came on as matchwinner for the londoners, came onasa matchwinner for the londoners, came on as a second—half substitute, scoring a simply mesmerising winner, jurgen klopp had actually taken the lead through daniel sturridge, two goals in six minutes from the visitors turned the tie around and put chelsea through to round four. elsewhere there were wins for arsenal, tottenham and west ham, a big win for them, beating league 2 side macclesfield 8—0. big win for them, beating league 2 side macclesfield 8-0. on less than 24 hours to go until the start of the ryder cup. this time tomorrow

the ryder cup. this time tomorrow the first pairings will be on the course at the course nationaljust outside of paris. we should find out exactly who the pairings are later on this evening before the opening ceremony. lott is being made of the strength of this ryder cup, it includes every single one of the world's top ten players for the first time across team usa and team europe, and although the americans hold the ryder cup from two years ago, they haven't won it in europe for 25 years. in terms of experience, although the americans boast vetera ns experience, although the americans boast veterans tiger woods and phil mickelson in their ranks, six of their team have only made eight ryder cup appearances between them, and that goes backjust eight years, so will that experience, or inexperience, count for much of the coming days? not according to the american three—time major winner jordan spieth. there is only a couple of guys that have any kind of scar tissue on playing an away soil, and they have won a combined 127

times, and account for 20 majors. we are not worried about the two all the guys on the team that have scar tissue. the rest of us are simply here because... and looking at this week as an opportunity for us to show that golfers from the united states can beat the golfers from europe, and we can do it over here. and that is all your sport now. we had a huge response to our programme yesterday, in which we revealed that up to 170,000 patients in england could be affected by complications involving hernia mesh repairs. around 200 people contacted us to say they too have been experiencing problems from chronic pain to limited mobility. some have even felt suicidal. after hearing our story, a member of the health select committee says she will be bringing it up with the committee.

and a leading expert says everyone who has had mesh fitted should be monitored and complication rates published. before we hear from today's guests, let's remind ourselves of what happened yesterday: i'm sat here now and i'm in pain. i feel like something's digging in me, and being pulled, i feel like i want to collapse, i feel that ill, i can't sleep, i'm struggling to work, i can't even smile any more, it's very difficult. and it'sjust been pain, spending money on therapies, spent over £5,000 on reflexology, physiotherapists, i've seen over six or seven surgeons. i've had steroid injections, medications, constantly been waking up through the night, two or three times a night. it was devastating because i was on a london 2012 programme, that was my dream, i'd worked so hard, and it my life because you give your life

to something so much because of the hours that you put in. so when i stopped, i didn'tjust lose my career but i lost myself. because i was like, what do i do now? when you feel so ill as well do you say you can't do anything, you go from doing 24 hours of training a week to barely being able to walk round the supermarket. is that the case? you came here using a wheelchair today. you can barely walk round the supermarket? yeah, i do about 15 minutes throughout the supermarket and i have to sit down. how old are you? 24. gosh. i was even told it might dissolve. that tissue would grow through it and once it's done itsjob, it would dissolve. the surgeon told you that? yeah. and it's definitely still there. do that, too, is distressing to hear. because that shouldn't be the case. i mean, that is shocking, that is notjust upsetting, that is outrageous.

but if i can say that as a surgeon who does hernia repairs, i would not want to be part of a practice that did this to patients. in other words, if i was recognising them as many congregations we are seeing in this programme, in my daily practice, i would stop. i wouldn't do it. and i probably have done 4—5,000 mesh repairs in the groin over the last 25 years. i have had problems and complication of course, we all do. but i have not had the frequency of complications that you've been demonstrating here. and if i had, i would have stopped. and that could be for all sorts of reasons? people are told, as you've heard, by their gps, there's nothing really wrong with you, it's in your head. 0r people don't go back to their original surgeon, often. people don't know that it's the mesh, you know. well, i'm not sure that we can be absolutely certain that it is the mesh. there are big studies that looked at lots of other analyses of work

done in hernia repairs, and actually there isn't a great deal of difference across europe, at least, between mesh and non—mesh repair. that was yesterday, we had a huge response from you, amongst those who got in touch, karen russell was one of the many people who contacted us following our coverage yesterday. she believes her hernia mesh has damaged her auto—immune system. she has had two different types of mesh, vaginal and subsequently hernia. lisa manston is here. -- lisa manston is here. she had her hernia mesh

removed last month after experiencing chronic pain. and carl is a professor of evidence—based medicine at the university of oxford and was instrumental in the temporary suspension of vaginal mesh on the nhs. thank you forjoining us, we have a video diary that you made for us, lisa, we can have a look at it in a little while but before we see the video diary, if you don't mind telling us what your experiences have been, you have had it removed. i had hernia repair16 have been, you have had it removed. i had hernia repair 16 months ago and from the minute i left the hospital i was in chronic pain, could not bend, could not lift, the simpsons got worse, there was no follow—up appointment with the hospital, sol follow—up appointment with the hospital, so i had to go to my gp and geta hospital, so i had to go to my gp and get a referral back which took a

couple of months. when i finally got back to the hospital, they try to fob me off. —— the symptomsjust got worse. they said it was scar tissue, nerve pain, they said there was no rear caring hernia, they sent me for the mri, i ask to see a pain doctor, i was the mri, i ask to see a pain doctor, iwas given the mri, i ask to see a pain doctor, i was given steroid injections followed by radio—frequency waves, this was all done to try to dislodge the trapped nerve which is what they thought it was, but it was not because the pain went on and on and the pain got worse until it broke me, literally, it has ruined my life. what do you mean it broke you? i could not take it any more, i felt like i was going to have some sort of breakdown because i felt nobody was listening to me, the gps, the hospital, backwards and forwards,

being fobbed off, although wanted to do was put me on painkillers. now i am addicted to it. trying to win myself of that, but i had to take them because i was not getting any sleep. it was a bad time for me. them because i was not getting any sleep. it was a bad time for mem must have been so frustrating, knowing there is something going on in your body and not being identified. i knew that it was the mesh, straightaway, because i knew what the nerve pain felt like. because when i bend down, and stood up because when i bend down, and stood up again, i felt, like, because when i bend down, and stood up again, ifelt, like, a because when i bend down, and stood up again, i felt, like, a tingling. with the mesh it was pulling the whole time, it was nagging from the minute i opened my eyes in the morning, to the minute i fell asleep, that mesh was there, and i

could feel it. you have done a video diary for could feel it. you have done a video diaryfor us, i could feel it. you have done a video diary for us, i know that you will find it upsetting so we will not play that until we have spoken to all of you but that will give us more of a sense of what you have endured. you went through a long battle for the medical side of things, to work out what was going on, even though you were sure in yourself it was the mesh, once it was identified, and removed, what difference did that make?” was identified, and removed, what difference did that make? i feel like a different person, obviously, it has been only eight weeks, i still have nipples now and again, but that mesh is gone from me, that plastic is out of my body. i am so grateful. i am one of the lucky ones, mine was only in for 14 months, some of these ladies and men have had it in there for years, and

have had it in there for years, and have been living with this pain, not knowing it was the mesh that has caused it, only now that it is coming to light that they have realised it is the plastic inside them that has caused the problems all these years. i said you have had to experiences of mesh, initially vaginal in 2007, that was removed after six years because of the pain that you had, then subsequently you had a hernia, and had to have new mesh, tell us about the pain after the vaginal mesh. when i had that, i had the operation, after that, after about a week, i went for a gentle walk. the pain inside the pelvis and regina was the most excruciating paini regina was the most excruciating pain i can describe. i really knew that something was wrong. can you describe it? it wasjust like a raw

burning, and looking back i think it was literally the mesh rubbing, if loading into my tissue. —— eroding. i would give it days to calm down and then try again, i thought at the beginning, iam and then try again, i thought at the beginning, i am going to get better, i must get better, every time, when for another walk on 50,100 yards, so much pain after it. eventually, the only way i could go out, i had two small children at the time, the only way i could go out was to use a wheelchair and i would have two crawl upstairs. crikey... living like that for six years. what were you being told about why the pain was so intense? initially i was told that it would calm down, and part and parcel of the operation. 0ver time, i began to realise that this

was serious but even then, there was nobody that would accept it was the tape, and over the years i began to say, it must be this. what made you say, it must be this. what made you say that? before i went into the operation i was absolutely fine, i could walk miles, to have the operation and one week later to not be able to walk, something inside me was irritating me, it is the only thing it could have been, to be honest. i was told it could not be removed, it was a difficult operation, it would have too many risks, and really, iwas operation, it would have too many risks, and really, i was advised, you will have to manage it. i never really managed it because as soon as i would try to walk again, i was basically damaging myself. that was what life was like. after six years it was removed, how did you finally end up persuading someone that is what had to happen? eventually,

there was two surgeons that started removing the tapes, they had seen so many women having so many really severe complications, and bearing in mind we went in for an operation for incontinence and came out not even able to walk, it was that extreme. 0ne able to walk, it was that extreme. one of the consultants i went to see agreed that we need to get this take out, and to be honest, i could not have carried on any longer. i remember thinking, i cannot carry on with life, becoming really unhealthy because i was not mobile and active, could not get out and about, my life was becoming so small, i needed that, it was my last chance to have this take removed, even if it had high risks. were you feeling suicidal? i felt really desperate, i had two young children, i was always

going to fight but i felt desperate, andi going to fight but i felt desperate, and i felt my life... going to fight but i felt desperate, and ifelt my life... it going to fight but i felt desperate, and i felt my life... it was going to fight but i felt desperate, and ifelt my life... it was not going to fight but i felt desperate, and i felt my life... it was not a life. before we bring in the experts, to bring us up—to—date with your experiences, that was taken out, you had a hernia mesh, and you are experiencing something different. sadly, unfortunately, and... this is with you autoimmune system ? and... this is with you autoimmune system? i would never have anybody put mesh bag inside me unless there was no other option, the hernia was created on removal of the tvt and it happened in that operation. firstly, the last thing i wanted them to do was put it inside of me but there is nowhere to go, i personally find numerous clinics to see if they could repair the hernia without mesh, the answer was repeatedly no. when i had the tv team is removed,

it was shown that i had a rejection of the tape, foreign body reaction, i would not want to take it back in me but i was reassured this will be fine, it is not internal, like the tv tea was, pain should not be an issue, and at that point i was really worried about pain, that was my biggest concern. now i know, i did not realise then, even though they removed the mesh, which was 20 centimetres, a narrow strip, now i have a 15 centimetres across by seven and a half centimetres big piece of mesh, and a mesh plug. so i have considerably more mesh inside me than ever before. thank you very much for talking to us. let's bring in professor carl

hennigan. what would you like to see happening? i think it is very clear that to understand what is going on,, we need to be able to say that everybody who has a procedure with an implant of nash is registered in an implant of nash is registered in a database an implant of nash is registered in a data base and an implant of nash is registered in a database and followed up for safety particularly. these meshes are changing all the time. they are not inert. they have particular coatings on them, and it's not surprising that you get people who have worse reactions than others. and with a hernia, the rates of complications for lightweight meshes are about 15%, but it seems to me that this is not being told to patients. and the bit that concerns me is if somebody comes in with chronic pain who has had an implanted device, the default is

that it implanted device, the default is thatitis implanted device, the default is that it is the device causing the problem, and you have to have a system that can understand what to do at how to manage that, and that isa do at how to manage that, and that is a specialist service that requires specialist surgeons who can say, we can deal with taking this out. i mentioned that you were instrumental, and instrumental voice in the temporary suspension of vaginal mesh. we were hearing that there are not many, if any, alternatives when it comes to hernia repairs, but is it time to look at the use of mesh in hernia operations? there are alternatives. it depends on the size of the scale of the hernia. there are some, abdominal hernias, where the problems are so large, they are life—threatening, and there are issues that unfortunately you do have to use some mesh, but this is about being able to inform people of the benefits and the risks, and if i was having a hernia operation, i would certainly want to know, if i

don't have the operation, there is an increased rate of recurrence, and i want to know what that is, versus what is my rate of chronic pain, and we those issues up, and at the moment we seem to have our heads buried in the sand, with an inability to fully inform patients about benefits and harms of the implants. obviously today there are thousands and thousands of people in this country with mesh, some will be having issues but the majority will not. what should happen right now? some of our organisations need to get their heads out of the sand, like nice, and say we are now going to ta ke like nice, and say we are now going to take patient safety seriously and legislate to allow patients to have a fully informed decision about what is going on. there are likely patients out there who are more likely to have an immune reaction, it isa

likely to have an immune reaction, it is a bit like an allergic reaction, to products like mesh, and we need to understand better who those people are. with the current system we have no way of knowing, so we need to have a different approach and say that we are looking at this. i know the baroness is looking at this, but she is only looking at transvaginal mesh. we need to reassure patients that we are producing a system that is safe and helping patients particularly when it goes wrong. terry turner, you are in the united states, and there are lawsuits in the united states over hernia mesh. tell us what the situation is there. there are lawsuits, people complaining about some of the problems we have heard about here, as well as bowel obstruction and organ preparation. there are currently about 2000 and lawsuit is going on in the united states on this, in federal court. these have been combined into three

different multi—district litigations, or mdls for short. these allow people with a similar product to combine to have one lawsuit, and these are combined in a series of bellwether trials which are a series of test cases to show the arguments on either side. mdls can go on for years. the ones right now involving hernia mesh have been going on for two years, one was only formed last month, and there are around 2000 cases total. we were just hearing from carl saying that he would like there to be proper monitoring of anybody in this country who has a mesh insertion. as monitoring happen in the united states ? monitoring happen in the united states? go, it doesn't. one of the mdls states? go, it doesn't. one of the mdls against physio mesh started by looking into europe and finding that

this was failing at a higher than normal rate, and johnson &johnson removed this mesh from the market. the most problematic meshes that they have seen are the ones that have been recalled for some kind of defect. and what was the failure rate that was identified in the particular mesh that you are talking about? because the rates here range, the complication range after hernia mesh are estimated to be between 20% and 30%. mesh are estimated to be between 20% and 3096. i'm not sure what the rates were, but theyjust said it was higher than expected, so it would be beyond the range you are talking about. lisa and karen, have you thought about any action for what you've been through? yes. thinking

about it, yes, it is in the process of the moment. i'm still waiting for medical records to come back, so that's taken a bit of time. what could make any difference to you for what you have been through? just the pain and suffering. notjust for me, for my family. it has affected everybody. it is just wrong, what they've done to us. can anything put that right? no, no amount of money could put right what we've been through, and there is people who have been through a lot worse than i have. karen, we were hearing there about nice and the nhra, the body that regulates medical devices in the uk, saying about the importance of clinical decisions like this being taken of clinical decisions like this being ta ken between of clinical decisions like this being taken between the surgeon and the patient. were you warned about the patient. were you warned about the potential implications of mesh? with the tvt, not at all, that was

the initial one. with the hernia mesh, i was concerned about the pain issues, and i was given reassurance that pain wouldn't be an issue because it's on the outside, so they really said that that wasn't going to be an issue, and sol really said that that wasn't going to be an issue, and so i was given no indication that all, and i was also told that if there was an issue and we did have a foreign body reaction, they could easilyjust re move reaction, they could easilyjust remove it and take it away, which is not the case, it is actually a really difficult operation to remove mesh, because it becomes so embedded in your tissue. thank you both very much indeed for coming in. you contacted the programme yesterday, as did many others, and just run through some of the comments. 0ne anonymous text said i am bedbound in agony since my hernia operation, in agony 24 hours a day. george says, i had a double hernia

operation with implants, i have had nothing but problems since, after the second operation i woke up in excruciating pain, i kept trying to tell them something was wrong and i was told to stop moaning by the surgeon and to get back to work. another anonymous caller said, i wasn't warned about the dangers, i had no problems, and i wasn't offered a follow—up, just sent home a few hours after the operation. i hope the women on the show are able to recover from the trauma they have been through. thank you both. i mentioned your video diary, lisa, and we have overrun on our conversation. we will may be played later on and put it on the website if we can. thank you very much, and we wish you all the best. thank you also to carl and terry. do keep an coming with your comments. still to come. we speak to a woman who had a reaction to poppy seeds after being

told her to pret sandwich didn't contain them. after two bite of the sandwich, i started noticing that i was having an allergic reaction and it was quite a bad one because my mouth was tingling, my throat started swelling up. thankfully it came on immediately because if it hasn't come on immediately, i'd have probably eaten the whole sandwich and then ended up hospital. that's coming up shortly. neither the latest news with annita. the headlines on news: one of the men accused of the salisbury nerve agent poisoning has been named as a high ranking russian military officer. the uk—based online investigation website, bellingcat, claims the man who was known as ruslan boshirov, is actually a decorated colonel who fought in chechnya. russia's foreign office has denied the claims. a review of the ambulance service in england has said that it

could save hundreds of millions of pounds a year if it tackled a number of issues including treating more patients at the scene. the report for the regulator nhs improvement warns that unless the service changes, 999 response times won't improve. it warns that an ageing ambulance fleet hampers the response to the targets. a third woman has accused donald trump's supreme court nominee, brett kavanaugh, of serious sexual assault. the allegations are said to be more serious than those which have already been made by two other women. later today, he and the first woman to accuse him, christine blasey ford, will be questioned by a senate committee. mr kavanaugh has described the claims as ridiculous. ten of the uk s biggest companies have agreed to make their parental leave and pay policies public for the first time. it comes as part of a push to force all large firms to publish details of their pay, so that candidates won't have to ask when being interviewed. kpmg, santander and deloitte are

among those to make their policies known. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. thank you, annita. the inquest in to the death of a girl who died from an allergic reaction to sesame after eating a sandwich, is due to finish today. 15—year—old natasha ednan—laperouse reacted to the sesame in a baguette which she bought from a pret—a—manger store at heathrow airport before flying to france injuly 2016. she collapsed on the flight, suffered a cardiac arrest and died within hours. the inquest has heard that pret—a—manger did not label the "artisan" baguettes which natasha ate as containing sesame seeds — despite six allergic reaction cases in the year before she died. i've been speaking to gabriella williams, who has a sesame and poppy seed allergy and ate a sandwich from pret containing poppy seeds despite asking a member of staff if it contained them. and stephen vaughen — he's the director of all food hygiene ltd who run food hygiene training across the world. initially i had gone into pret and

checked the ingredients on the sam wood label, and i went up and asked the staff if they could give me information on whether it had sesame or information on whether it had sesame 0" p°ppy information on whether it had sesame or poppy seeds in it. they got their allergy book out and told me that there wasn't any sesame seeds in it, but the allergy book didn't have any information on poppy seeds because it is not a top 14 listed allergy, but they said it should be fine because if there was a lot of poppy seeds, it would be listed in the ingredients. so i bought the sam wood is thinking it would be ok. i also checked the website, because i assumed that if there was going to be any extra ingredients that were listed on the packaging, they would be on the website, because with every other cafe or coffee chain, they are. that also listed exactly they are. that also listed exactly the same ingredients as the packaging, so i assumed that that was the full list of the main ingredients. sorry to interrupt. so you did a lot of checking before

eating that sandwich? because you know the potential impact on you over eating something that could cause your problem? exactly. i know that sesame and poppy seeds are both major allergies for me, so i wanted to be doubly sure that i was going to be doubly sure that i was going to be doubly sure that i was going to be fine, and after having checked in three places, i assumed it would be ok. i bought it from a train station shop, so i got on my train, started eating the sam wood on the train, and after two bites, i started noticing i was having an allergic reaction. and it was quite allergic reaction. and it was quite a bad one, because my mouth was tingling, my throat started swelling up. thankfully it came on immediately, because if it hadn't, i would probably have eaten the whole sam wood and ended up in hospital. —— i would probably have eaten the whole sandwich and ended up in hospital. how did you calm it down, did you have an eddie penn?|j managed to calm it down by taking about seven antihistamines instead, because i was on my own on this

train journey, because i was on my own on this trainjourney, and because i was on my own on this train journey, and i because i was on my own on this trainjourney, and i wanted to because i was on my own on this train journey, and i wanted to avoid using an epi— pen unless i had to, because i don't know whether anything else would have happened to me because of taking the epi— pen instead. but i did still have symptoms for a few days afterwards, which wasn't pleasant at all. so did you then go back to pret and tell them what happened? yes, i filled out an online form on the website, pretty soon afterwards, and they did initially get back to me, and they sounded quite nice, they said they we re sounded quite nice, they said they were concerned and it sounded like an unfortunate unpleasant experience, so i thought they were going to be quite nice at first. then they got in touch with me, and they offered me what they called a gesture of goodwill, because they didn't want to call it compensation, but all they offered me was a £20 gift card, and the gift card was to be spent in pret stores, so that

annoyed me, honestly, because it showed how little they understood of the situation if they thought i wa nted the situation if they thought i wanted to go back and buy more of their food when it was their food that had, you know, could have killed me. have you been back to pret since? no, i haven't. i wouldn't risk it. even in a normal cafe where everything is fully listed on the ingredients, i still have to open up a sandwich and check now whether there is anything lurking in there that isn't supposed to. when i looked in the sand which on the train having eaten it, i found there was loads of poppy seeds in there, and it turned out the entire dressing was made from them, but it wasn't listed anywhere. we have a statement through from pret for you. they say they sincerely apologise for your experiences. they say, we take food allergies and providing allergen information to our customers very seriously, and are constantly reviewing our approach. we now clearly displayed a

clerical allergies on all product sheu clerical allergies on all product shelf ticket in our fridges, and we also have signed in ourfridges, an hour packaging and the tale is asking customers with allergies to speak to a manager to see the guide. the guide carries information on the 14 to claire bell allergens used in our food. if customers 14 to claire bell allergens used in ourfood. if customers have 14 to claire bell allergens used in our food. if customers have an allergy to a different ingredients such as poppy seeds, the guide refers them to our customer services team, who can advise. you mention the poppy seeds are not in the 14 listed. what is your reaction to that statement? that is basically what they told me during the conversations with them, but before i had been talking to them, it had not been mentioned in the shop, obviously if you have a slightly more unusual allergy you cannot find out the information from anywhere u nless out the information from anywhere unless you ring up the customer service team, when i rang the customer service team up, during my conversation to them, i asked if they could verify whether it with p°ppy they could verify whether it with poppy seeds that had been in the

sandwich and caused me the allergy, they did not know at first, they had to ring me back and have a conversation with the kitchen department to find out if there was any p°ppy department to find out if there was any poppy seeds in the sandwich, and obviously there was a lot of them, the entire dressing was made of them, i would classify that as a main ingredient. this process took maybe one hour, from the ringing them to them finding out from the kitchen what the ingredients were and then ringing me back foot. i bought this sandwich from a train station shop five minutes before getting on a train, the fact they think you should spend an hour debating with a customer service tea m debating with a customer service team about whether the sandwich is going to kill you, is utterly ridiculous! they should have the ingredients list on the packaging, on the website, somewhere customers can find it, because they have main ingredient is not listed anywhere at all. thank you very much. we will get the reaction of stephen, you run

food hygiene training across the world, are you surprised by what is happening here. pret h that their system is completely consistent with the regulatory system. —— pret say. it may cover the law but in that case, gabriella seem to do everything possible to make sure that sandwich was safe to eat for herand she that sandwich was safe to eat for her and she was let down badly. that sandwich was safe to eat for her and she was let down badlym it time for a change in the law? they review it constantly, i understand there will be more allergens added to the 14, originally started off as a list of eight, gradually increased, sol think it should be changed to cover situations like that, although they will never add every food, like poppy will never add every food, like poppy seeds, but staff should know

exactly what the ingredients are, there should be a label on each food item. that would be a significant change, are you saying every single ingredient needs to be on every food product that is sold. that would have helped in this situation significantly, and in the tragic case of natasha, that would have helped. she took the sandwich with the sesame seeds, she took it and add it in front of her parents. they would have read the label. the label was not there to be read. it is absolutely awful, hearing what happened to natasha, and hearing through the inquest about the impact

on herfamily. through the inquest about the impact on her family. you through the inquest about the impact on herfamily. you live daily with the fear of eating something that could cause you serious issues, what do you think needs to happen going forward ? do you think needs to happen going forward? there do you think needs to happen going forward ? there needs do you think needs to happen going forward? there needs to be some kind of change in the law, i don't think any company should be able to get away with not listing at least all the main ingredients that are put into any kind of meal orfood. the main ingredients that are put into any kind of meal or food. there is people that are allergic to things that are not the top 14, loads of allergies that people have that will not be listed in the one tiny booklet. if you put a big come of mm tiny booklet. if you put a big come of poppy seed or whatever else somebody is allergic to into a sandwich, then people need to know about that, because it is really horrible that somebody has already died from it. —— big clump. and if nothing happens, that could be happened to more people and i could be one of them. thank you very much.

in a statement about the death of 15—year—old natasha, pret told us: "we were deeply saddened to hear about natasha s tragic death, and our heartfelt thoughts are with her family and friends. we take food allergies and how allergen information is provided to our customers extremely seriously. we will continue to do all that we can to assist the coroner s inquest." coming up: former edl leader tommy robinson says he expects to be sent to prison today when he appears at court for a hearing over whether he prejudiced other proceedings. we'll take a look at support for the far—right, at home and abroad. now, the double—0lympic gold medallist dame kelly holmes is best known for her double olympic gold in athens in 2004. but she was also in the army and now she's campaigning to tackle inequality in the armed forces. she's here to talk about that.

but first, let's take a look at one of those winning moments. commentator: tries to move up, kelly looking round to see where the danger is, does not appear to be too much, now she has got to push on and click for home, kelly holmes going for two gold—medal, it is going to be an historic gold—medal, wins the 1500 metre title! what a performance. a personal best to boot. you are the double 0lympic champion, kelly holmes! how does it make you feel when you see you? still the same! i talk about it all the time, i do motivational speaking, i play it at the end to get people going, because it was such a long career, since 14, going through the ups and downs and roller coasters, both emotionally and physically, to finally do that at 34 years old, i think, when it is in you, it is embedded in you, that is why it means so much. the other

dream a lot of us did not know about, your dream to be in the army from age 14! you have now been made an honorary colonel of the royal training regiment, does that feel like a training regiment, does that feel likea dream training regiment, does that feel like a dream come true? yes, since 14i like a dream come true? yes, since 14 i wanted to be in the army, i asked my mother to take me when i was 15, 16, 17 to the careers office, i was desperate to be in there and have a career and do something i could feel was me and a challenge but also a journey. and being made a colonel of the royal armoured corps, that is amazing, it's dovetails everything i believe m, it's dovetails everything i believe in, equality, driving, career, success , in, equality, driving, career, success, and having opportunities. equality, you want to speak about that, do you have particular concerns? no, i think that, do you have particular concerns? no, ithink they that, do you have particular concerns? no, i think they are in a really good place, since november, 2016, in particular, with the royal armoured corps, females are allowed

tojoin the armoured corps, females are allowed to join the ground close combat unit. by the end of the year, women should be allowed on all front—line roles, and this is ground—breaking, a ground—breaking change in army policy since 2016. it means there is a lot more opportunities open for women, they get the opportunity to do what ever men choose to do, and i think when it comes to equality, it is not about, do we let women in and change standards, it is about, if you are good enough to pass a course without any concessions, man or woman, you should be given the rights to do those roles. i'm really pleased to say, the army now are looking at the opportunities that it gives both men and women in terms of flexible working, part—time sessions, depending upon combat roles, and also investing in the future, and paternity leave, because

they are the largest apprenticeship opportunity employers in the uk, it has giving young people that chance to have funded qualification roles, and so, there is a lot open now. in changing the law, giving you opportunities on paper, does not a lwa ys opportunities on paper, does not always translate to the people actually on the front line, overseeing what happens, and i use the term lightly. but, actually, giving the equality to women who wa nt to giving the equality to women who want to step up, do you think it is working as it should? definitely in terms of opportunities, they are open, whether women take them up and girls see them as a viable career, thatis girls see them as a viable career, that is the difference, that is possibly what the forces and in particular the army now need to push, that we are supportive of women. these are the processes you go through. do you think it is a

case of women holding themselves back, rather than putting themselves forward and being pushed back. there is always going to be a worry, because it is so new, what is going to be the thing going forward now, as the recruits start to go through these roles, they become the voice, for example, the royal armoured corps, they have 12 offices that have gone through the programme, for recruits that have gone through, that means they can drive tanks, so when ijoined, i had a good vehicle driver, it was not open to me to driver, it was not open to me to drive a tank, which i have done if i could have done, absolutely! for me, let's go for it! what needs to be done is to show that the forces are there in terms of diversity, equality, opportunity, girls need to see that actually, byjoining the forces, you have a number of roles available for you, depending on what your drive and determination is, but

your drive and determination is, but you have the chance. being an hgv driver back then in the army, did you encounter discrimination, did anyone? you wanted to do it? no, when ijoined i wanted to be a physical training instructor, there was no course available to me: chef, admin assistant, my mother was the cook at home, i was rubbish at school, couldn't do those, and so it was hgv driver, i was desperate to get into the army, i saw it as a career and a lifestyle change, i could be different to myself, i grew up could be different to myself, i grew up so quick in the military. you make comments like nothing else, learn things about yourself maybe you would never get in city street, and at this time, when young people are very and at this time, when young people are very unsure and at this time, when young people are very unsure about who they are and where they should go in life... the military is a really good career. “— the military is a really good career. —— civvy street. it gives you opportunities in life. the qualifications you can get, every qualifications you can get, every qualification is relevant in terms of civvy street. even if you did the

minimum amount of time, career opportunities afterwards, they see you as disciplined, somebody who can ta ke you as disciplined, somebody who can take rules and regulations to heart, so you have the step forward. mental health is another area you feel passionate about, you are a mental health first aid, when you look at the army, do you have any concerns about mental health full. —— first aider. how is it being approached? again, they are definitely making great steps forward. i know that there is a change in the physical training policy, they are trialling at the moment, having a wellness section, a mindfulness section, after they have taken the physical training side, so what they are trying to do is get the young people in particular, the recruits but also the people serving at the moment to go out there with, yes, they need physical attributes, they have to be at their absolute best especially if they are in a combat role but after that, looking at the here and now,

because we know about ptsd, we know about when people leave the services, some of the impact, coming back from war, what is the impact, but also, day—to—day living, pretty tough out there for anybody, any lifestyle, mental health has got to be something, we stopped the signatures and say, i suffer, i have suffered depression, to the point of self harm, during being an international athlete. when i spoke about that in 2005, it was almost like fish and chip paper, it's just... and then two years ago, and then i started talking a lot more about it, so did prince harry, with his problems with coping with the death of his mother. when i started saying, coming out and being more open again, people were starting to listen now, that is the only difference. doesn't matter what you have achieved in life, or what your

ambition is, we are all human, we go through anxiety, stress, depression, clinical depression is a medical thing you have two deal with, but you have two identify it. everyday people, we are all going to struggle at sometimes. and i think with the services, because it is so... because it is conducive to having people together, at the same time, regimented, you have pt, you can bring them together, maybe 32 guys and girls at the same time, give them ten minutes at the end to reflect to have time to themselves, thatis reflect to have time to themselves, that is going to be so much better. let's catch up with the weather. good morning. it is mixed fortunes today, so let's take a look first of all at some of our weather watchers

pictures. in stark contrast, if we look at the coastline in suffolk, quite a different story, blue skies. today we could well hit 20 celsius across london and the south—east. but a disk going to turn colder, because we have a cold front sinking south. mild conditions indicated by the ambers and yellows, and others coming in coolerfrom the ambers and yellows, and others coming in cooler from the the ambers and yellows, and others coming in coolerfrom the north the ambers and yellows, and others coming in cooler from the north as indicated by the blue. still some lingering patches of mist and fog across parts of southern england and south wales, it will slowly lift and we still have some cloud around. rain across scotland moving southwards, weakening all the time, but by the time we get the afternoon, it won't be much more than a band of cloud patchy light rain across the north. you can see the cooler greens coming in from the north, indicating it is going to be

fresh behind that cold front, temperatures 11—15, whereas ahead of it we still have amber and we are looking at 22, 23, possibly 24 somewhere around london. this evening and overnight, if we pick up the weather front once again, it continues its descent southwards, weakening all the time. by the time it arrives in the far south of england later, it won't be much more than a band of cloud. look at the difference in the temperatures. in the north of the country, from the midlands northwoods, we have been used to waking up to double figures. tomorrow it will feel cold with pockets of frost, but it is in the south where we have been used to a cold start under clear skies, and it will feel colder. that will move away through the course of the morning, leaving bright skies behind, afair morning, leaving bright skies behind, a fair bit of sunshine around, scattering of showers and breezy across the north west of scotland. breezy in the english channel as well, and there go the temperatures. tom —— top temperature

tomorrow 16. a sparkly start tomorrow, sunshine around, and this weather front will introduce strengthening winds and also some rain, with the temperature range 11-17. rain, with the temperature range 11—17. sunday we see more cloud around, showery rain across the north and west, a breezy day and some of the cloud further south with temperatures similar to saturday. hello. it's thursday, ten o'clock, i'mjoanna hello. it's thursday, ten o'clock, i'm joanna gosling. a leading surgeon has said that everybody who is fitted with vagina mash or hernia mesh should be registered. they should be registered. they should be registered in a database and followed up for safety particularly. these meshes are changing all the

time. it comes as we revealed up to a patients in england could be affected by chronic problems after having hernia mesh repairs. russia says the latest claims about the men suspected of carrying out the men suspected of carrying out the salisbury nerve agent attack are not true, and online investigative groups say one of them is a highly decorated russian military colonel. we will speak to the journalist behind that claim and a former british intelligence officer. also for the first time since two guide leaders were expeued since two guide leaders were expelled from the organisation after they criticised its policy on including children born as boys but who identifiers girls, we will hear from a transgender girl and her mum about her experience in the brownies. it meant a lot because it was something her friends were doing, they were all at rainbows and brownies. she would have been excluded, and it would have hurt her. lily's mum told us that she

supported the expelling of the volu nteers supported the expelling of the volunteers who campaigned against the inclusion of these girls. here's annita mcveigh in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the days news. good morning. 0ne good morning. one of the men accused of the salisbury nerve agent poisoning has been named as a high—ranking russian military officer. the uk—based online investigation website, bellingcat, claims the man who was known as ruslan boshirov, is actually a decorated colonel who fought in chechnya. russia's foreign office has denied the claims. a review of the ambulance service in england has said that it could save hundreds of millions of pounds a year if it tackled a number of issues including treating more patients at the scene. the report for the regulator nhs improvement warns that unless the service changes, 999 response times won't improve. it warns that an ageing ambulance fleet hampers the response to the targets. along with high sickness rates and

slow u pta ke along with high sickness rates and slow uptake of technology. a third woman has accused donald trump's supreme court nominee, brett kavanaugh, of serious sexual assault. the allegations are said to be more serious than those which have already been made by two other women. later today, he and the first woman to accuse him, christine blasey ford, will be questioned by a senate committee. mr kavanaugh has described the claims as ridiculous. ten of the uk s biggest companies have agreed to make their parental leave and pay policies public for the first time. it comes as part of a push to force all large firms to publish details of their pay, so that candidates won't have to ask when being interviewed. kpmg, santander and deloitte are among those to make their policies known. meal replacement diets should be part of nhs treatments to tackle obesity says a leading medicaljournal. a study by the bmj showed that reduced calorie diets consisting of shakes and soups are effective at achieving rapid weight loss in the most severely obese and can

reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes. currently the programmes are not available on the nhs, and some experts say they only work if eating habits change permanently. the heads of 45 universities and colleges have written to the education secretary calling for a ban on companies that sell students custom—written essays and coursework. they say the firms, known as "essay mills", undermine higher education and are unfair to the vast majority of ha rd—working students. the government says it would like universities to do more to tackle the problem. a bank customer has complained after hsbc returned a letter to him asking him to resend it in english. geraint lovgreen wrote to his bank in welsh, informing them of a change of address. he has complained to the welsh language commissioner after the bank told him that they could not respond to his letter because he had written it "in a foreign language". that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30.

thank you very much, annita. we would love to hear from you, thank you very much, annita. we would love to hearfrom you, don't forget to get in touch with the hashtag #victorialive. leave your phone number in the message if you wish us to get in touch. let's get some sport now. hugh is at the bbc sport centre. the row between paul pogba and jose mourinho won't go away. yesterday they were filmed exchanging what may be some frosty words right at the start of manchester united's training session. it is alleged they fell out because of this, a video that paul pogba posted on instagram after their defeat to derby in the afl cup. united lost on penalties, but some of the team—mates were pictured laughing. the fallout seems to have divided opinion amongst united fans, some suggesting that pogba should go while some feel it

is the manager who needs to leave, this person saying he is more disastrous for united in any of their players. journalist mark warburton at espn wrote that the rest of the squad are now angry with mourinho, but the club's hierarchy support him to stay in charge. last night chelsea came from behind late on to inflict a first defeat of the season on liverpool at anfield. eden hazard, who so often is the matchwinner for the londoners, came on as matchwinner for the londoners, came onasa matchwinner for the londoners, came on as a second—half substitute to score that mesmerising winner. jurgen klopp's liveable had taken the lead through daniel sturridge, but two goals in six minutes put them through to round four. totte n ha m them through to round four. tottenham will also be in the next round, they beat watford on penalties. the match finished 2—2, but two saves setup the chancellor dele alli to win it. spurs were playing in dele alli's homeground of

milton keynes, because they new ground is not yet available and wembley is unavailable. west ham have been struggling to get going, but it all came together in their match against macclesfield. they won 8-0 match against macclesfield. they won 8—0 on the night, but the visitors do sit bottom of the football league. we're 24 hours from the start of the ryder cup in paris. tea m start of the ryder cup in paris. team usa are hoping to win in europe for the first time in 25 years, and although the americans boast the vetera ns although the americans boast the veterans tiger woods and phil mickelson in their ranks, neither of those players have won a ryder cup on foreign soil. but that won't affect the younger players in their tea m affect the younger players in their team according to the three—time major winnerjordan spieth. there is only a couple of guys that have any kind of scar tissue on playing an away soil, and those guys have won a combined 127 times, and account for 20 majors. we are not worried about the two older guys on the team that

have scar tissue. the rest of us are simply here and looking at this week as an opportunity for us to show that the golfers from the united states can be the golfers from europe, and we can do it over here, that's the goal. and that's all your sport for now, more a little bit later on. thank you very much. the mystery of anotherjopp poisonings in wiltshire has taken anotherjopp poisonings in wiltshire has ta ken another twist. anotherjopp poisonings in wiltshire has taken another twist. russia denies claims on an investigative website that say it knows the true identity of one of the suspects. the former russian spy sergei skripal and his daughter yulia skripal were poisoned back in march. both mr skripal survive, but dorn sturgess, not connected to the original attack, died in july not connected to the original attack, died injuly after being exposed to the same substance. i'm joined now by the main author:

christo grosev — he was the main author behind the investigation. he joins us on webcam now. and in moscow is mikhail fishman — he is the former editor in chief of the moscow times. tell us what you have uncovered. we have proceeded in a long investigation which concluded in our view that one of the suspects was indeed a very highly decorated colonel from the gr you, the military intelligence in russia, he is not a civilian by any stretch of the imagination, and he is not a field operative, a low captain or lieutenant. it is somebody very high up, and that opens a whole new line of questions. russia has dismissed

what you have found, the foreign ministry spokeswoman the dons for what you are saying. what evidence tea m what you are saying. what evidence team have? we have the hardest evidence that there can be short of somebody videotaping the guys getting fake passports and putting poison on the door handle. we have evidence of two passport issued by the russian federation, one under that real name of the gentleman, and one under a cover name. these two passport can not exist for a civilian. we have also confirmation from the website of the military academy, which this gentleman graduated from, saying that he is one of the youngest members, one of the youngest recipients of the russian military award, he was given that for a secret reason in december 2014, and this is all coming from russian official sources. we have a

match on the faces, that really defies any conspiracy. we have a perfect match for the faces of the people from the two passports. i really can't imagine what more russia can ask from us as investigators. let's bring in mikhail fishman. it sounds like a lot of evidence to back up this claim, and yet moscow is saying it is just not true. yes, the claim, and yet moscow is saying it isjust not true. yes, the new identity established by bellingcat and the independent publication here in russia of this gr you officer, thatis in russia of this gr you officer, that is the talk of the town. and i would say there are two parts to this discussion. the first is the social networks across media circles is how on earth the military

intelligence could fail in such an operation, and second, the cover—up operation, and second, the cover—up operation and how on earth would it allow the identity of the suspect to be established so easily. and the second is the sort of official reaction, which yes, you quoted already, the foreign ministry spokesperson, and if we talk about official reaction, i highly doubt that there will be any kind of confirmation, or that they would admit in anyway that yes, the investigation proved to be true, because from the russian official point of view, it is not proof, and it falls short from what already has been said and found about these

guys. if it was not so serious, it almost seems comedy, the things being said, the way the denials are being put out, how is it being seen there, how seriously is this being taken? well, of course it is a very serious issue and we see in the official press, the media controlled by the kremlin, they have already started debunking they have already started debunking the investigation, that we are discussing, right now, the claim to have found some serious flaws in the logics, in the investigations, it will probably be tomorrow, today, this weekend, it will be also on

major news shows across russian televisions. propaganda is going to use it quite heavily, so it is quite a serious issue, but again, it will always be thrown back asjust a serious issue, but again, it will always be thrown back as just one more effort to somehow attack russia. we are also joined now by philip ingram, former colonel in british military intelligence and a chemical weapons expert. thank you for joining chemical weapons expert. thank you forjoining us. we were hearing about the questions in russia about how it has been that this person has been, the suspects were identified so quickly, and there has been, they have been identified so easily. what does it say about how well planned

the operation was, and more about, how sophisticated or not this intelligence operation was? the operation was very sophisticated, the planning will have been detailed, but what it shows is the power of the fantastic investigative journalism that has been done to get into the details, relatively sloppy administration of the russian intelligence agents overseas, to have passport application sequentially numbered, to have the switchboard of the russian ministry of defence as the number on the fourth passport applications, that is complete sloppiness, they will be analysing their own performance to fix their problems in this performance. at another level, obviously very sophisticated, bringing something like novichok into this country undetected.

bringing something like novichok into this country undetectedm bringing something like novichok into this country undetected. it is designed not to be detected, the one thing that is out there, people keep talking about these operatives failing in their mission, the mission was not primarily to kill sergei skripal, it was to send a message on behalf of president putin, to his dissenters, to say, i can get you at a nasty —— i can get you anywhere in the world in a nasty way at any time. it does not matter that sergei skripal survive, that is why salisbury was chosen, plausible deniability of saying it must have escaped from portland down, that ties in with the russian doctrine of masking and disinformation, they just want to create this air of, it could not have been asked. they are playing two audiences, international audience and the domestic audience and the domestic audience are those supporters of vladimir putin, those voting for him 14 days before the presidential election, he wanted to influence them. —— porton down. and

the dissenters, and that is a clear message that is being sent out to them. you are nodding. do you think this will be seen as mission accomplished successfully?” this will be seen as mission accomplished successfully? i think that was the intent, i think it may have backfired, for the simple reason that one of the big questions russians have, even if they are terrible at producing advanced technology, anything that is good in the world, they are great in their secret services, and now, that has falle n secret services, and now, that has fallen to the ground and in pieces. people in the russian internet that would typically make fun of the opposition, the americans, they are now making fun of these agents who have been busted. i don't think it was a thought through operation of

scaring because it has backfired. what do you think? i think it is important to understand what message the kremlin was trying to send to the kremlin was trying to send to the world when these guys appeared in the first place, it was very different from alexander litvinenko, the case, when they obviously tried to prove that they do not have any thing common with it. theyjust wrongly picked up people. this is a very different case, and when they appeared on russian today, their interview was also obvious, the message behind the interview was, yes, it is asked, you will never prove it is asked, and there is nothing you can do about it. —— yes, it is us. this is a different

message that has been sent. it only adds to this mess, in a way. thank you very much, thank you to all of you. a policy which was brought in last year formally allows transgender members and leaders to join the rainbows, brownies and girl guides, a row broke out this week after the organisation ousted two volunteer leaders who objected to the policy. girl guiding has argued being transgendered is not make it more of a risk, they have no concerns over the trans—inclusive policy, nspcc. we have been back to visit one transgender girl whose journey we

have been following. she spent three yea rs have been following. she spent three years as have been following. she spent three yea rs as a have been following. she spent three years as a brownie. —— girlguidling has firmly argued that being trans—gender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk. this has been backed up by the nspcc, which says it has no concerns over the trans—inclusive policy. 0ur reporterjim reed. lily is a ten—year—old transgender girl. we've been following her life on this programme for the last three years. she lives in the north of england. she's still very young so we're changing her name and not showing herface. one of my favourite thing about being a brownie was that we did lots of fun games. at the time, it was probably one of the most fun things i ever did. lily was one of the first transgender children tojoin the guides. she was seven when she started rainbows, the youngest branch, and moved quickly on to brownies. itjust felt quite natural to me. it's all my friends from school, well, all my friends from school knew i was transgender, but the people from outside school didn't really know. and if you were told that you can go to brownies because you were a trans girl, how would that have made you feel? i think that...

i don't think that's fair because i would say that i am a girl. this is the modern face of today's girl guides. way back in january last year, the organisation published a new equality policy. its section on transgender members makes it clear that if a child or young person self identifies asa girl, then they are able to join. in april, 224 guides, guide leaders and parents co—signed an open letter claiming the policy poses safeguarding risks on camping trip in particular. under the new policy, leaders are not allowed to tell girls or their parents if another girl in the unit is transgender. you know, so a lot of the families knew... lily's mum said in her case, most

of the other families knew anyway. but nevertheless, that kind of protection is important. if i think about our experience and lily starting in brownies, for example, and if the leaders had told all other girls, "this child is transgender and has a male body, " and all the parents knew, it makes an issue of it, it makes out, why do they need to know that? it's not relevant. i would have found that very hard and i'm sure lily would have, if she'd been singled out, pointed out that she is transgender. where there are any issues with other parents? anything like at all? not at all. i mean, a lot of the girls in that group and therefore the families were from school so a lot of them kind of knew the story anyway, the leaders were brilliant, theyjust included her as one of the girls cos she

was one of the girls, even when she went on brownie camp, that was really, really good. i had a chat with the brownie leaders and talked about making sure they had somewhere private to change and wash, and things like that. but that was really the only issue. people that are critical of this policy say, "look, it could put other girls at risk." maybe not at lily's age but as you get older into puberty... i guess that suggesting that trans girls are a threat and why are they as just because they have slightly different biology or body? there is no reason why. it's just scaremongering. two volunteers have been expelled from the girl guides after objecting to the policy in public on social media. 0ne spoke to bbc radio 4 this week. as much as we, as girl guiding needs to be inclusive, i think we also need to consider girls' needs as well. and these are adolescents

who may be are embarrassed about their changing bodies, who would rather be sharing those kind of intimate spaces with other female children. girls have the right to female—only spaces, there is provision within the law to have single—sex spaces where it's proportionate means to a legitimate aim. after that, the organisation's chief executive wrote to members defending the policy saying... it's a forward—thinking, inclusive, supportive, anti discriminatory policy. we need to embrace these policies and support them, and if people can't support those policies, then they shouldn't be part of that organisation, that institution. brownies and guides and rainbows is about teaching girls how to be caring about how to love one another, how to respect one another, all those values and principles

that it promotes surely goes along with this policy. so, looking back, how important do you think it was to her identity that lily was allowed to join brownies rather than join cubs or scouts? it meant a lot because it was something all her friends were doing, they were all at rainbows then they were all at brownies, she would have been massively excluded and it would really have hurt her, i think. it would have been really hard, so we're really grateful to the girl guides for allowing her tojoin and be part of it, because they were totally inclusive, really supportive and we were really grateful for that. we did invite helen watts, one of the guide—leaders who has criticised the policy, onto the programme. but she didn't want to do the interview. instead we can speak to nicola williams, from the orgnasiation fair play for women, who is

speaking on her behalf. fair play for women are an organisation who have concerns about including transgender girls and women in certain situations. we asked the girl guides onto the programme — and the campaign groups stonewall and mermaids, who support the girl—guide policy. but none of them were prepared to discuss the issue, with the opposing side. we also asked the nspcc on, but they said no—one was available. so instead, we'll put their various points to nicola. thank you very much for coming in. we were watching that, what do you think about this, how she would have felt? i have enormous compassion for children like lily, and i wish we lived in a world where children like lily could do and be whatever they wa nted lily could do and be whatever they wanted to be but without having to reject their body and their sex, their birth sex, and i wish we lived ina their birth sex, and i wish we lived in a world where a female children we re in a world where a female children were not at risk of sexual abuse or

physical abuse from male children or male adults, but we do. and so we have to be able to acknowledge that transgender girls are male children with male bodies. hang on. you have made two points. you say you wish we were in a world where someone like lily could be what she was to be. that is exactly what she was to be. that is exactly what doing. without rejecting her sex, she is male sex. she is identifying as a girl. you also bring into that risk of children being abused. she is a little girl. what are you saying? the girl guides policy extends to any child that joins girl guides, so that includes teenagers. adolescent teenage males will now be allowed to join girl

guides, but they will also be allowed to sleep in tents with the girls, undress with the girls, wash with the girls, and parents aren't told. in what other situation would we allow male teenagers to do those things without parents being asked? they don't identify as male, they are identifying as female. how does someone's identity impact that risk? there is evidence for the contrary, that they don't pose a risk, and the nspcc says it doesn't consider there are any specific child protection concerns in relation to trans—inclusive policies, any space and activity involving children should have strong safeguarding policies in place with a proper risk assessment to minimise the risks to all children involved, and that applies anywhere. the nspcc are letting parents and children down there, because nobody is saying that a transgender child is a risk

because they are transgender. it's because they are transgender. it's because they are male, and there are decades of research and generations of common sense that tells us that we don't mix teenage males and teenage females together... that happens anywhere, what do you mean? when they are sleeping in tents, when thou washing and undressing. i would think every parent listening to this would be worried if they thought their teenage daughter was going on a trip to find that they we re going on a trip to find that they were in the presence of males. we heard from lily‘s ma'am, and she said they have encountered no issues. —— lily's mum. they said that no attention should be drawn to a trans—girl in this situation. she said there were no issues with the other parents because the kids all

knew anyway, they know the girl. you have to think of a situation here where you have a girl in a tent who is there with a male child, 0k? where you have a girl in a tent who is there with a male child, ok? if something happened where that male child wanted either consenting or non—consenting to have sex with that girl, would that girl feel confident enough with her boundaries and brave enough with her boundaries and brave enough to be able to say no, i don't wa nt to enough to be able to say no, i don't want to sleep with that male, because when she looks around she can see that no adults even dare to say... likewise, that could happen with a single sex situation. two girls can't get each other pregnant. there is overwhelming evidence that male children are a risk to female children. the nspcc‘s own data says that over a third of all sexual abuse is by boys on girls, it is children on children. we can't sweep

away evidence that says that male children are a risk to female children. it's simple fact, everybody knows it. there is absolutely no evidence that trans—children are a risk.|j absolutely no evidence that trans-children are a risk. i don't ca re trans-children are a risk. i don't care what other characteristic they have. at the end of the day, they are male children, there is no different in their body between any other child. there is a difference in the way that they feel on the way that they identify. if there is evidence that that changes the rex factor, then fair enough, but until that time, we need to think of the girls, the girls' safety here. it's not good enough not to tell the pa rents. not good enough not to tell the parents. a stonewall spokesperson said no charge of race discrimination or bullying simply because of who they are. refusing to include tra ns—young people because of who they are. refusing to include trans—young people can have serious consequences for their safety a nd serious consequences for their safety and well—being, and is also breaking the law. it is not breaking

the law. i have had this confirmation from the human rights commission. the girl guides are perfectly entitled as a club to exclude male children if they choose to. they have chosen to include a male children who are transgender as well as female children. just a final thought on another part of the nspcc statement, because they also say that tra ns—young nspcc statement, because they also say that trans—young people are at particular risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse from peers. do you not think that they are vulnerable kids? they are vulnerable kids, but we don't then put them into a kids, but we don't then put them intoa group kids, but we don't then put them into a group of other vulnerable children, and these girls are at risk from male children, and i think the girl guides, the nspcc, stonewall, by letting children down and letting parents down because of

this policy. seven till they can justify why this is safe and why they don't tell parents about it, because parents have the right to be able to make their own choices for their children. if they look at the situation and they choose, actually, in this situation, my daughter can sleep with that male child, that is fine. but at the moment, the girl guides are taking that is away from pa rents, guides are taking that is away from parents, and that is wrong. nicola williams, thank you very much. we did ask both stonewall and mermaids to comment, but they said that just engaging mermaids to comment, but they said thatjust engaging in this does suggest that trans—children are a risk to others, which is not the case. khiry robinson is back in court today after being released on bail in august. he has been included after allegedly broadcasting a

trial. robinson has emerged as a figurehead for the far right, and meanwhile ukip's leader has said that he would want robinson to join his party. neil hamilton is the leader of ukip wales. thank you for joining us. lord pearson, the former ukip leader, said tommy robinson would be a huge asset to ukip. do you think he would? ukip has had a policy for some time of prescribing people who have belong to organisations like the bnp or the image defence league. the national executive has always had the ability to make exceptions, but that has never been used to my knowledge previously. tommy robinson is an effective propagandist, an intelligent guy as far as i can see from reading about and watching him, but is obviously a risk that if ukip gets focused upon individuals like

tommy robinson that the public at large will get a rather different view of the party. i don't want to dam anybody out of hand, and i think if somebody wants to put forward tommy robinson as a potential member, then his case should be looked at on its merits, but he would have to give an absolute commitment that by his words and actions he wouldn't in future bring the party into distribute in any way. would you like to see him being a member? i think this is something which needs further debate, i haven't made my mind up on it yet because i don't want ukip overwhelmingly associated with this one issue, highly important though it is to talk about the topics, but i'm very much in favour of having an

honest debate about this, and about islam and islamic extremism in british society, because the other parties are in denial about this. the other parties have never had a ban on xp —— on former bnp leaders, andindeed ban on xp —— on former bnp leaders, and indeed nick griffin has said that he will vote labour next time, and labour has had no problem taking in former bnp members into its ranks, so let's keep our hair on, and see it in its proper context. as with anybody who wants to join ukip, but has a technical disqualification, the party should be able to consider whether that matters. william dartmouth, ukip mep for nearly ten years and former debbiejevans for nearly ten years and former debbie jevans of the for nearly ten years and former debbiejevans of the party, resigned yesterday. he said the has moved

further and further to the right, and is now widely perceived as both homophobic and anti—islamic. former leader nigel farage has warned that the party faces total and utter marginalisation if it moved to the extremes marginalisation if it moved to the extre m es of marginalisation if it moved to the extremes of politics. i don't think that the world at large has ever focused much on william dartmouth, a hereditary earl who doesn't really have the common touch. as her nigel farage, the former leader of ukip in its early days has tweeted today that nigel had pressed him in 1997 to allow members of the national front tojoin. so i think to allow members of the national front to join. so i think everybody should calm down and see this possibility of tommy robinson being considered for membership of ukip in its proper context. he is one person. ukip has a policy platform which is decided by the national executive and voted for by the whole

ukip membership in a conference, and we have a constitution which imposes a code of discipline upon people, and if that is breached, then it can lead to people being suspended or expelled. so ukip is not moving further to the right, whatever that means, and it is certainly no more extremist than it ever was. the real extremism today of courses in the labour party that has many issues to a nswer labour party that has many issues to answer about anti—semitism and so on, and jeremy corbyn seems very ill disposed to doing anything about that. so ukip i think has very little to apologise for in comparison with other parties. thank you very much indeed forjoining us, neil hamilton. 0ur reporter sean clare joined neil hamilton. 0ur reporter sean clarejoined some of neil hamilton. 0ur reporter sean clare joined some of robinson's supporters on a march with the football mad alliance, or fla group this summer, and here is what he found. i am a second-generation immigrant to this country, and i feel that tommy robinson is a hero.

he is maligned and in the next ten or 20 years we will have a different opinion of who he is. have you been involved before? never, this is the first time i have ever been on any marches. so what was it that made you join? every few minutes here, tommy robinson's name is sung by the crowd, but fla supporters insist he is not a racist. lots of what he saysis is not a racist. lots of what he says is very anti—islam. you don't hear him speaking out against white british terrorist very often. nobody in power wants to

intelligently discuss what people seem to be worried about. i remember nelson mandela saying, when you re move nelson mandela saying, when you remove a man's right to object, don't be surprised when he starts to become violent. do you think we are on the verge of some kind of violence? not today, but in a small amount of years to come, yes. you can't keep suppressing people and expect nothing to happen. as long as they don't want to embrace us, we are always embracing their religion, they don't want to know about us. do you think is possible for muslims and non—muslims to live in the same country? no, i don't think it is, i

think it's gone too far. the government are protecting the muslims too much. there are varying views on islam and muslims expressed here, and among concerns about terror and grooming gangs, some have bought into the idea that parts of the uk are now under islamic law and that there are no go areas for non—muslims. when you say they, who do you mean? do not think he should be the mayor, then? there aren't no—go areas, either?

there aren't no—go areas, either? the people of this country have been silenced for 20—30 years with the tag of racist. well, we can bring in brendan 0'neill, a right—wing commentator, and also joining brendan 0'neill, a right—wing commentator, and alsojoining us from west mr is matthew goodwin, an expert on far right politics. thank you forjoining us. sabi, why were the protests outside court? that you have got to, those concerned about theissue have got to, those concerned about the issue of grooming her to stand with the victims, and we stand for justice for those victims. justice

requires those trials to be allowed to ta ke requires those trials to be allowed to take place, freely and fairly. and so i think that is the most important thing. secondly, tommy robinson and those who attend those marches, that we have seen on your screen just now, they are seizing on that issue to actually build support for their far that issue to actually build support for theirfar right that issue to actually build support for their far right fascist street movement and we have to stand up to that. we have heard from some of the people on the march, the message from someone is, when the mainstream does not want to talk about the issues they are concerned about, thatis issues they are concerned about, that is when people get angry and rise up. to be honest with you, i think that is a load of nonsense! the idea that we don't talk about theissue the idea that we don't talk about the issue that some of those people raised is not true, we do not discuss it fairly, that is the problem, we discuss it in a biased

way which concedes to some of the myths spread by the far right. we must tell the truth: grooming is wrong, terrorism is wrong, it is awful, they are borrowed crimes. and we must treat them as such. —— they are abhorrent crimes. it does no one any justice if you are abhorrent crimes. it does no one anyjustice if you are racialised in sexual exploitation and sexual abuse and linking it for flu with one religion or one community, that will allow the far right and racism to grow full. we have to stand up to these awful crimes and say that they are wrong and we must do everything we can to stop that. —— racialising sexual abuse. and we must tell the truth, there is no simple link between race, religion and sexual exploits a shin and abuse and terrorism. matthew, what do you think is going on here, in terms of support for tommy robinson, and the views we are hearing on that march. no doubt tommy robinson has become a

significant figure, he is followed bya numberof significant figure, he is followed by a number of different groups and i think what has happened at a broad level in britain is that particularly since the collapse of the british national party, and then the british national party, and then the rise and fall of the uk independence party, a lot of groups that might have previously been organised around those parties have fragmented and so the movements have become a little more chaotic and a little more fluid. there is clearly an attempt now partly by the uk independence party to get those groups around one entity, and that is where they see tommy robinson as perhaps playing that sort of unifying significant role. what do you think about ukip talking about tommy robinson as a potentially valuable member? it is for ukip to decide who should join their party and who should not but i think the

phenomenon of tommy robinson is linked to the fact that people feel there are certain issues they cannot speak about, people do feel that if they talk about mass immigration that they will be called xenophobic. if they want to raise concerns about islamic terrorism or islamic extremism, they may be called islamophobic, all these tags of phobia which are attached to people if they raise particular questions or criticisms and people feel that ina very or criticisms and people feel that in a very real way, that there are certain areas of public life that are off—limits for ordinary people to talk about. the great mistake there is that kind of censorious climate feeds into this, people like tommy robinson and that right wing ilk, who then can say, we will tell the truth, we are the people who will come in and speak for the ordinary man and woman... the approach by the left, constantly trying to shutdown discussions, that feeds into tommy robinson's narrative and i would go so far as

to say that the reason he is successful is because the left is unwilling to discuss these issues. would you agree? i think there is often a picture of two extremes, one side says nobody is talking, the other side says, actually, we are the ones who will talk about it. look at the mainstream media, newspapers like the times, for example, have been talking about grooming for two or three years, there has been a discussion within parts of the national conversation, if you like, about that issue. the casey report talked about integration and what was going wrong and what could be done better. i don't agree with the argument that we are not talking about the issues. i agree partly with brendan's point, the left in general, if you want to use that term, not only in britain but across europe and in the us, has been consistently bad at dealing with these identity issues and that has really opened the door for these movements that say, and who have

spoken to left's working—class vote rs spoken to left's working—class voters in particular, they want to have a conversation about the immigration policy in britain, is integration working out. they want to be included in the conversation and there are ways that we could do it but we have two perhaps put ourselves in a comparable position to have those conversations. how worried are you about the rise of the right, here, and elsewhere as well? obviously it is very worrying, i have to disagree with the other guests, i think that actually, the blame lays squarely at the first lead the tory coalition government, and secondly, david cameron's government who had a majority in 2015 and the present government for number one, implementing austerity, which has slashed the living standards of the decent working people in this country, because the reason why i say this is because,

there is, it is not the first time in history where you have had economic problems in western economies, and a rise of fascism and racism, that is the fundamental problem here, and secondly, the government has led us into a total mess on brexit, and there is no way out and i think these issues are being used by steve bannon, who is building a movement across europe and funding and supporting tommy robinson and the far right in this country, and it is the right that have not dealt with this issue properly. actually, the left is dealing with these issues, it is standing up to racism, standing up for working people, and it is actually saying, we stand with women and victims of terrorism. thank you all very much indeed, thank you. ten of the biggest companies in the

uk have agreed to make their pay and childcare policies clear for the first time, details of family benefits will be published so that potential employees do not have do ask about it in an interview and risk being disseminated against. joe swinson joins risk being disseminated against. joe swinsonjoins us, she risk being disseminated against. joe swinson joins us, she was the first mp to take her baby into parliament. we are alsojoined mp to take her baby into parliament. we are also joined by a one of the companies who have agreed to publish their policies, kpmg. helen bryce has experience first—hand the challenges of getting a job while having a child. she now is has a business which supports working pa rents. business which supports working parents. —— jo swinson. business which supports working parents. ——jo swinson. anne, tell us more about why it is that you have decided to go ahead and publish. we have always published elements of what we offer two working parents but whenjo

elements of what we offer two working parents but when jo swinson contacted us we thought it was obvious that we should publish policies in falljust as we do for staff internally, and make it clear to any talent that would like to pursue a career. to any talent that would like to pursue a career. “— to any talent that would like to pursue a career. “ in to any talent that would like to pursue a career. —— in full. to any talent that would like to pursue a career. -- in full. this is an absolute no—brainer and it is great that there is companies willing to sign up for that, without having to be forced to do so, they clearly recognise the benefits in terms of attracting talent and that is brilliant. obviously various companies that might be less keen to publish policies, that can only be a good thing, that that is encouraged. did you have situations where we we re did you have situations where we were worried that the issue of maternity may have affected yourjob prospects? absolutely, yeah, i run guilty mothers club, it is a community, we run development for women who are trying to manage parenthood and work will stop when i ask the community around whether they feel comfortable asking at

interview about a company's childcare policies, across—the—board the answer was, no, childcare policies, across—the—board the answerwas, no, we childcare policies, across—the—board the answer was, no, we would not feel comfortable. women definitely feel comfortable. women definitely feel there is discrimination that can take place. we know that happens, we know that happens because we hear stories about it but likewise, wings like the young women's trust, one in five uk employers have said that having young children will impact upon promotional opportunities. we only have to hear reports like that and we know it is really cross. i am pregnant now, would i want to ask about that at an interview, no, i would not, it would have an impact. getting the information prior allows you to be able to be more informed. and women when they are changing career, or looking at other opportunities, looking at companies that value working parents. you have been driving change on this, why is it so important, jo swinson?m

been driving change on this, why is it so important, jo swinson? it is important for the reasons we have outlined there, it gives people choice when they are looking where they will apply to work but also the fa ct of they will apply to work but also the fact of publication helps to drive up fact of publication helps to drive up the parental pay benefits offered, companies look and see that competitors are offering more, then it becomes a race to attract the best talent. it can also be used to drive better practice within companies and reduce disk rumination which is all too prevalent, 54,000 women every year losing theirjobs asa women every year losing theirjobs as a result of pregnancy discrimination, it is a national scandal and this is one step, not a silver bullet but this is one step that can help to move that unfairness. all companies employing more than 250 people to make this information available, how far is there to go? a long way to go but it is great that these ten companies, kpmg and others, have taken the first step, those companies offering really good policies, are going to be more likely to publish this

information, that is why regulation is important, it levels the playing field. it is not a big thing to attach, to add information to the website, about giving information. we have seen from gender pay gap reporting, one of the last thing that i achieved when i was a minister in government, that information means people ask questions and things that were not on the agenda suddenly get talked about in the boardroom. jo n that publishing the information is not expensive but having the policies we are talking about can be expensive. __j° are talking about can be expensive. ——jo saying. are talking about can be expensive. -- jo saying. it is incredibly important, really competitive market tale nt important, really competitive market talent and we want to attract the best people to come to work for our firms and that of course includes parents, many of us are parents. it is part of life, isn't it, to have a culture which would not be inclusive of people who want to be successful working parents would be ridiculous

in today's economy. thank you very much indeed. bbc newsroom live is coming up next, good to you today. i will be back the same time tomorrow, have a lovely day. familiar story across southern parts of england, we started off this morning on a colt knost, but sunny start to the day, look at this, in bristol, barely cloud in the sky. —— cold start. more cloud north, that will burn away, cloud across scotland and northern ireland will move south, that will break up, brighter skies

across scotland and northern ireland during the afternoon, turning chillier compared to yesterday, 13 or 15 degrees, another warm day for england and wales, temperature up to 23, 20 four. the cloud will move south, so in the south, it will be a mild night. —— 23,24. cold night in the north, single figures, during friday, plenty of dry and sunny weather around, chillier feel for all of us, best temperatures down to about 17 degrees in london. this is bbc news. these are the top stories developing at 11.00am:

‘like a disaster movie'. the head of the london fire brigade tells the grenfell inquiry her reaction on arriving at the scene of the fire. donald trump suggests he could withdraw his support for supreme court candidate brett kava naugh as his accuser prepares to testify at the senate panel hearing. we are giving the women a major chance to speak. it's possible i will hear that and say i am changing my mind. russia denies one of the men accused of the salisbury poisonings is a decorated russian military officer. ambulances in england face missing response targets if the service fails to make changes to the way patients are treated. also today, calls for a crackdown on cheating at university.