dozens of people are thought to be trapped under rubble in the indonesian city of palu after the earthquake and tsunami that left more than 800 people dead. aftershocks and a lack of equipment have hindered the search for survivors. typhoon trami has made landfall in japan injuring at least 80 people. more than three quarters of a million homes near the western city of osaka have lost power. there's been a low turnout in macedonia on a referendum whether to change the country's name to north macedonia. electoral authorities say little more than a third of macedonians voted — well short of the 50% needed for it to be valid. macedonia's prime minister says he'll continue to push for a yes vote — which could pave the way to membership of the eu and nato. now on bbc news, hardtalk‘s stephen sackur speaks to yanis varoufakis. welcome to hardtalk.

i'm stephen sackur. the old certainties in european politics are crumbling. voters seem fed up with a long—established supremacy of the parties of centre—right and centre—left. the politics of identity and raw emotion have fuelled populist insurgencies from italy to sweden, to eastern europe. mostly it is the right, not the left, in the ascendant. well, my guest is yanis varoufakis, greece's radical leftist finance minister at the height of the economic crisis, and an advocate of a new global progressive politics. but is he losing the argument in europe? yanis va roufakis,

welcome to hardtalk. you still play a political role. you have a new political party, which you are determined to make a force in greece and in europe. but would you accept that as a radical, as a leftist, the tide in europe, the tide of public opinion is running against you? absolutely. civilisation is in retreat. we are experiencing a new, a post—modern 1930s moment. the liberal establishment has made a mess of it. they have been insisting on policies that are failing left, right and centre, and they are crumbling, like the weimar republic. thankfully not with the brownshirts of the streets yet, but we have the nationalist republic rising across europe.

look at the salvini phenomenon in italy and so on. we are losing the battle. this is why this is the time to regroup across a broad alliance of progressives, democrat, liberals, left—wingers, that have civilisation at the heart. before we drill down into the detail of that analysis, i do want to ask you whether you think it is justifiable to, as so many progressives and leftists do, use this trope about europe today looking like europe in the 1930s. historian niall ferguson addressed that recently, saying it is nonsense and lazy. if one takes one example, italy, you just mentioned the fascists and mrsalvini. and we spoke with him the other day on hardtalk, he has abandoned many of his more radical positions, particularly on leaving the eurozone. well, he hasn't. he has strategically placed this on the backburner for a year.

and we can discuss this next year. but what he has primarily done is that he has used the same storyline from the 1930s of promising the average italian, whose income has been, per capita, falling for 20 years, there's no doubt about that, to restore his pride back byjuxtaposing him against the migrant, even the italian roma. this is exactly the same as the 1930s. it isn't exactly the same as the 1930s. in italy... i didn't say it is exactly the same. i said a post—modern version of it. thankfully, history does not repeat itself exactly. the point is, you need in a sense, to set this idea up to make the case for your own radical, leftist, progressive politics. and i put it to you that there is a fundamental exaggeration. when you talk about this post—modern crisis in europe —

look at germany, look at france, look even at italy, look even at sweden — where yes, the far—right democrats did well, but 83% of the nation didn't vote for them. you're setting up a notion of europe in crisis which simply isn't true. i wish you were right. but i don't think you are. the fascists and the parochials and the extreme nationalists do not need to win government in order to change the complexion of europe. look at, for instance, france, where le pen never won the elysee, but, nevertheless, she infected the right wing party of the republicans, so much so that on social issues, civil liberties, even the socialist party voted for legislation that would make mrs le pen exceptionally proud. this is how it works. they do reasonably well and then push the whole political spectrum in an antiliberal and rabid nationalist direction.

to the extent that now we have a fragmentation of the european union. all right. if the alarm bells and the emergency sirens going off all across europe, how come in your own country, greece, right now, if one looks at the opinion polls, out in front is the new democracy party, the mainstream age—old centre—right party. your old party, syriza, the radical leftist government of the moment, they are struggling in the polls, but your own even more radical progressive offering, your new party, you're struggling to get even a single percentage point of the vote in the latest opinion polls. well, i would say that is unfair, because we have just started the party. judge us at the election, that is the only opinion poll. especially for a party that is not known to exist in greece at the moment. take my point. allow me to address the point directly. firstly, firstly, the real winners of opinion polls are the apathy

and discontent with the political system. the majority of greeks today declare through opinion pollsters that they're not going to participate in the democratic triumph celebration at the ballot box. that is the greatest defeat of democracy. people who actually say that they're going to vote for the mention parties that you mentioned, they will do this defensively. they will not do it with any degree of enthusiasm. the democratic system can only function when citizens are engaged. at the moment, citizens across europe are becoming disengaged from the political process. this is something that we should all worry about, as long as we are democrats. you are a democrat, right? committed, passionate... because you talk about direct action and point towards other ways in which people can alter the political landscape. to be clear, you're absolutely, four square a democrat.

i am staunchly a democrat. stephen, i grew up in a dictatorship. i value nothing more than the rule of law and the democratic process. the direct action that you mentioned is absolutely essential. participating in town hall meetings. participating in workplace democracy. these are the pillars of a liberal democratic process. we have spoken before about what happened in 2015, when, for about nine months, i believe, you were finance minister. i don't want to go through the whole thing again. 5.5, you're exaggerating. maybe it seemed longer. it was very compressed. that's for sure! looking back at the perspective of being in september of ‘is, can you now acknowledge that actually, alexis tsipras and his syriza government took the right decisions? absolutely not. i wish i did.

because the one thing i would like to do more than anything is leave the political scene and, you know, write my books, and read poetry, and applaud alexis tsipras, or whoever else happens in power, so to speak, or in government. look, look, look. but the suggestion is exactly... look at the reality. let's look at the reality, yes. greece has finally escaped... really? ..from the boot of the troika. the imf, the eu. not really. yes, really. let's look at the facts, were we? greece has massive debt, but greece can now shape its own economic future. who told you that? greece is bankrupt. mr tsipras said just the other month when finally the bailout conditions were lifted, "a new beginning, an historic break with the past." and he's ready started talking about his own economic policy with tax breaks, higher social benefits. you've met many politicians in your life. i don't believe you're so gullible as to expect a politician to tell you the truth, especially

when he's presiding over a complete catastrophe. one in two families in greece as we speak have no—one working in them. one in two families, i will repeat this, have no one working in them. one third of the working greeks are receiving less than 384 euros a month in a country which is not cheap. we have about 10—15,000 youngsters, well—educated ones, leaving the country, migrating, every month. to consider this to be a success story, and, by the way, we are still in the...under the thumb of the troika. but the alternative, walking away from the debt, defying the germans and the european union. i never propose to walk away. if your philosophy and defiance had been followed, greece would have, ultimately, been insolvent, crashed out of the eurozone, and those families you talk about today would be even worse. firstly, i'm on record

for making proposals. i was proposing very technically competent debt swaps that would have made the debt payable so that we wouldn't need to destroy the private sector with tax rates and rates for social security payments which, stephen, listen to this, 75% of profits a small business now has the state 75% of profits. you don't have to be left wing or right wing to realise that this is what you do to a country when you want to destroy it. let's stick to what is happening in europe today. in so many countries, the radical left proposition does not appear to be appealing to — if i can put it this way — the left behind, the alienated working class, those who are feeling insecure, angry, disappointed, and neglected. those of the people, whether you talk about trump's america or in europe, those sorts of people appear to feel

more of a connection with parties of the populist nationalist right. why is the left—wing proposition not appealing to them? because it is not square up. because the left has failed to put forward a progressive agenda that makes people think, "ah ha, this might work." this is a terrible failure on behalf of the left. and it is essential that those of us who identify themselves as left—wingers begin with self—criticism. and that is why — and let me answer your question specifically. we have failed to put forward a kind of new deal agenda that extends beyond ideological borderlines and national borderlines. europe today needs what fdr did in 1933, we need a new deal for europe. and unless we create an alliance across national borders, and across the standard party

political divisions, we will fail. the only beneficiaries will be those who turn one proud people against the other, northern europeans against the southern europeans, the europeans against the africans, or the syrians. and, indeed, europeans against europeans. politics is very much about emotion as well as rationality and logic. when you put forward your proposition and to flesh out a little bit, you have talked about a new international monetary system that must be created, an international wealth fund. you've even talked about an international digital currency they could ensure that your new fair world of finance had its own sort of electronic currency. all of this, i would put you, doesn't get to the emotional heart of where politics is today. it is those people who are talking about the dangers of mass immigration, those who are talking about the need for secure borders — they're the people in europe who appear to connect

with so many of the voters. you are quite right. this is why we need... why aren't you doing it? why are the left not addressing the issue of immigration? the reason why some of us created a democracy movement in europe, which seeks to be a movement bringing together notjust the left but also liberals, even progressive conservatives, those of us who are eager to agree on a believable, credible, progressive agenda for europe, this is why we created diem25, because we don't believe the left has what it takes. but let me answer your point. because you made a good point. you made the point that it is important to unite emotion and rationality. we say to people who are lured by the nationalist narrative of secure borders, of the anti—migrant narrative... what is your proposition to people who are generally concerned? what we say to them,

on an emotional level, mostly, we say we need to take our countries back. we need to get our towns back. we have to get our europe back. because problems with private debt can be mortgages, with public debt, with low levels of investment, with uberisation of jobs, they cannot be sorted out at the level of england, italy, or germany. we need to look at these problems together and have a solution. so hang on, let me stop you there. what you just said is really important. so at heart you are a multilateralist, and for all of your critique of the eu when you were finance minister, you seemed to be saying we still need multilateral, even globalist solutions — and i come back to all the stuff you write about global greed investment programmes, globalfair trade deals, global minimum living wages imposed on all countries.

stephen, you're talking to somebody who paraded up and down this country before thejune 2016 referendum, and i campaigned feverishly against brexit, and in favour of remain, even though no—one can accuse me of being a lapdog of brussels. because of what you're saying, that we need... but my point is that you are out of tune with the spirit of the times. people are thinking very much, it seems, in terms of nationalism, in terms of their borders, their security. and here are you, proposing all of these new, multilateral, extremely ambitious global institutions. except — except — except that firstly, they would work in contrast and juxtaposition to the current institutions, that are failing. how can you be confident that they would work? let's have a debate about what is on the table. by the way, i am a collector. i borrow from the best. you mentioned the digital international currency. that's not my idea, that isjohn maynard keynes in 19114,

it wasn't digital back then. well, you've updated it somewhat. but that's what we must do. what is this "we" — "we must do"? we have just discussed for much of this interview the problems facing the european union because of a deficit, you do not recognise the legitimacy of eu institutions, yet here we are talking about ‘we‘ being some sort of global institution that sets up its own currency. who is this ‘we‘? let me answer the question. in may 2019, our movement is going to stand in the european parliament elections, and we're going to stand in greece, we're going to stand with our friends and colleagues in denmark, of the alternative party, we're going to stand in poland with a feminist—led political progressive party, we're going to run in elections in italy against salvini. that's who we are, and our challenge is how to create a narrative of inclusiveness that is completely humanistic, antinationalist and internationalist.

0k. and you've just laid out that you're going to fight in elections, and as, let's face it, you said you're a democrat. you're going to walk the walk as well as talk the talk and i respect that, but if one looks at current polling, and as you say, diem has been around for a couple of years, but you are new, so the fact that you are scoring virtually zero in the polls, we'll let that pass. it's bankrupt for polling organisations to carry out polls. what i want to get to is this. the only country in europe right now where the left, in its more radicalform, is actually doing well, or at least gaining traction with a significant part of the population, is in the united kingdom. indeed. so what makes — and you know the uk very well. what, in yourview, makes jeremy corbyn‘s labour party different from so many of the other left movements in europe and across the world today? well, brexit has had a lot to do with it, because brexit has been a slap

in the face of progressives. independently of what their view about what brexit is. well, i was going to say the labour party position about brexit is extremely confused. so i can't see how... well, it is because it is a confusing issue. if you are not confused about brexit, you are fanatical. i can't see how brexit can be the driver of the momentum. what brexit did was it created a realisation in this country that british democracy and its role in the world cannot be taken for granted. it needs to be reinvented, and this is — this is a — let's look at the bright side. this gives the people of britain an opportunity to reconsider their position in the world, and i believe that jeremy has been doing a very good job at recognising that the last 30

years of privatisation, of moving towards a business model that effectively tied the economy's growth onto bubbles, on the housing bubble and on the city of london, and he is causing a reassessment of this. interesting, and so you would say — because you talked about the last generation of politicians in the uk who in your view played that sort of neoliberal economic game. you would say that tony blair was in no way a left—of—centre politician, would you? what does it mean? on the one hand, he was, because he gave a little money to the national health service, money that the tories starved the national health service of. but at the very same time, he did it by aligning himself fully with the city of london, turning a blind eye to the private money minting of the private banks, and creating the circumstances that led to 2008 and to the collapse in 2008. what i'm getting to is that john mcdonnell, the current shadow chancellor of the exchequer

here in the uk, hasjust made a big speech where he's painted a picture of a radical economic programme, including, just one example, the mandatory imposition on business in the uk of a need to have 10% of their shares given to the workers in the company. the dividends would then go to those workers, and there would be a cap on the amount of dividend to be received by each worker, and the excess beyond that would go to the government. so it would actually be a huge new corporate tax. it would fundamentally change the relationship between the state and the corporate centre in the uk, in a very sort of left—of—centre way. do you really believe the british people are going to vote for that? i think so. and i'm very glad to have heard john mcdonnell put forward the idea. have you talked tojohn mcdonnell about that programme? because it mirrors things you've been saying for some time.

i am proposing a social wealth fund where10% of the shares after every capital raising by companies go into a public wealth funds, and the dividends are distributed in the form of a universal basic dividend. whereas the labour party is divvying them up amongst the workers within those corporations. but what i think is very important — remember this is not even in the manifesto yet. this is part of the liberal party conference, it may go in the manifesto, i hope it does. it is a fairly interesting discussion though, that we must have, even the tories must have, about the division between capital and labour. put it differently, stephen. once upon a time, when an industrialist bought a machine, that machine belonged to the industrialist, and the industrialist could claim the profits that the machine produced for the company. but these days of google and facebook, every time you search on your google search engine for something, you are providing capital to google, and no—one is getting the returns for that except for google. we have to reconsider property

rights over the returns of capital, and the labour party is the only party in the world that is doing this. this is the answer to your question "why is it that jeremy corbyn‘s labour party are picking up votes and support, unlike other left wing parties around the world?" ok, so for you, definitely, the uk labour party represents a beacon of hope. but throughout this interview, you have been saying we must do this, we must do that, and i have been pointing out that actually, in the real world and the world of politics and opinion polls, your ideas are not adding very much traction, if we leave aside the united kingdom. i disagree with you. so my point to you is, is there a point where you at some point say to yourself democratic politics doesn't work? we're going to find new ways. one labour mp said recently "we need to topple this government. if we can't do it at the ballot box, we will do it with a general strike by working with the trade unions." is that your kind of politics? well, firstly, a strike is not illegal, the last time i checked. i am not saying it is illegal,

i am saying is that your view of where your kind of politics needs to go? firstly, let's be very clear because these are dangerous politics with the rise of extremists around the world and we have to be very be in a language and in the way that we support democracy. so to answer directly, i am going to quote from winston churchill, "the democratic process is pretty awful, it is pretty nasty, but it is the best of all alternatives, and we have to be prepared to defend it with our lives." i think that is a pretty straightforward a nswer to your question. now, whether strikes are part of the political democratic process, i believe that they are. and on that note, we have to end. yanis varoufakis, i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. hello there.

with plenty of showers around across the northern half of the uk yesterday, and south—west england, we had a number of rainbows spotted by our weather watchers. this was one of these, from woolacombe, in devon. thanks to gazzledazzle for sending us that in. fewer rainbows around today, but there will be more in the way of sunshine. but it's going to be a cold start. patchy frost in the countryside for scotland and northern england over the next few hours. if you're heading outside, wrap up warm. just two or three degrees there for newcastle and for edinburgh. so a ridge of high pressure with us first thing on monday, but we do have an approaching low that will ultimately bring some rain into the north—west. so enjoy the sunshine first thing in the morning. there should be plenty of that to go around. it's probably going to be the sunniest day of the week ahead, to be honest. things will tend to cloud over from the north and west as the day goes by, and watch out for a few showers continuing to feed

into the irish sea coasts, perhaps into cheshire, greater manchester, merseyside, on and off through the day. we'll have more general rain push into scotland and maybe northern ireland as we head through the afternoon, the winds picking up. relatively cool air with us, top temperatures about 15 degrees. but that cool air is moved away by this wodge of milder air as we go on through monday night and into tuesday. now, that's all associated with a warm sector, with the warmest of the air across england and wales for tuesday. this is how tuesday starts — a very mild note. temperatures 1a degrees or so to start the day in belfast. but it will be cloudy. there'll be bits and pieces of rain and drizzle, particularly around western coasts and hills, where it may well stay quite damp. the cloud will break at times across eastern areas, to give some bright or sunny spells. a much warmer day, actually, across south—east england, with highs of 20. we're still into the cool air, northern england, northern ireland and scotland. temperatures for these areas more typically around 12—14 degrees. another warm front moves into the uk on wednesday, again bringing more rain with it

to the north—west of scotland, could be quite heavy at times. a lot of cloud, you'll notice, on the charts. still quite mild in the south, little change further north, with temperatures around 12 or 13 celsius. what about thursday's weather prospects? well, we get a more active weather front moving into north—western parts of the country, so turning soggy for northern ireland and scotland, with some heavy rain. the winds picking up here. perhaps a little bit of rain getting across the hills of northern england and north wales. however, it should stay dry and bright towards the south—east. highs of 19 in london. still quite cool, then, for northern scotland, with 12 in stornoway. so, looking at the weather for the rest of this week, it's often going to be pretty cloudy. there'll be some rain at times, particularly in the north—west, and it'll be quite breezy at times too. that's your weather. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story — indonesia calls for international help to deal with the devastating aftermath of last friday's earthquake and tsunami. more than 800 people have been killed on the island of sulawesi — many more are thought to be

trapped under rubble. translation: i'm going out of my mind. i don't know where my children are. i'm going crazy with worry about them, i have no news at all. macedonia's prime minister says he will seek parliamentary approval to change the country's name, despite the low turn—out in a referendum. we have a deal! at the 11th hour the us, canada and mexico announce a successor to the north american free trade agreement. also in business briefing, the new boss at goldman sachs,