the latest headlines: authorities in indonesia are saying they'll end search and rescue efforts on friday for survivors of last week's tsunami and earthquake, that hit the island of sulawesi. at least m00 people were killed in the disaster, but officials say the number of dead is now likely to rise. the lawyer for an american woman who has accused the football star cristiano ronaldo of raping her nine years ago has said she was emboldened to come forward by the metoo movement. the portuguese footballer strongly denied the claim. police in las vegas have reopened the investigation. the british goverment has accused russian military intelligence, the gru, for a series of cyber attacks on organisations spanning the worlds of politics, business, media and sport. british authorities say a group known as fancy bear hacked the world anti—doping agency to leak confidential medical files on athletes. it's time now for hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur and this is the vast turbine hall in london's tate modern gallery. it has been home to a series of installations by some of the world's leading contemporary artists, and right now it is showing artists, and right now it is showing a work by my guest today, the cuban conceptual artist, tania bruguera. the installations and performances have won her a claim right around the world. also, they have prompted harassments, censorship and the tension inside cuba. so is she an artist, activist, or maybe both at once? tania bruguera, welcome to hardtalk.

here we are in the tate modern gallery. it is stuffed full of things, of paintings, sculpture, and yet you as an artist seem much less concerned about things, much more focused on ideas. would that be fair? absolutely. i think the work i do as an artist is focused on gestures, i want to do political gestures, i want to do political gestures, institutional gestures, human gestures, and i always feel that some things are invisible. and ina sense, that some things are invisible. and in a sense, it strikes me that the tools of your are, people, both yourself but also the viewers, the audience as well, rather than paint oi’ audience as well, rather than paint or material, it is people that

matter. —— your arter. or material, it is people that matter. -- your arter. well, the material of the arts is how we are together, and of course that is only made by people. -- art. not long ago, he said that art is an expression of myself, it is not something to be collected. some mightfind something to be collected. some might find that a little narcissistic. well, i did not mean it about me, and meant that art should be the place in which everybody can look at themselves, and when i say not to be collected, and when i say not to be collected, and mean that we have to pay attention on what is the role of art? art is not only or should not be primarily something to invest in economically, but something to dive in emotionally, to open yourself up. and so much of what you do, and we will talk about specific pieces, installations and performances, so much of it seems to me in some ways

closer to theatre than it is to any other art form. is that because, from your youth, it have been preoccupied with performance? well, iam from preoccupied with performance? well, i am from the country where we have the best political performers of our recent history, which is fidel castro. do you consider him an inspiration? well, it is reference, let say. but in a way, when you talk about politics, there is a lot of theatre involved in what i am trying to do in my eyes is how can we break the classic theatre, where everything has been already decided, into a place where people can add something to the discourse? so let's talk specifically about this installation you have at the tate modern gallery. some of the world's leading contemporary artists get the opportunity to feel that huge turbine hall. —— feel that. you have done something very interesting but

it because actually, you have not put much in it has all. and when you come to the tate turbine, we get used to monumental and a spectacular, because people want to fill the space. when i entered, the first thing i saw after i knew i was going to get the commission is how beautiful the building is, and how the building is like a street, like an outside street. and a said that, i want to intervene the building are not the space they have been building, and how i wanted to do that was by bringing the neighbours in to decide what was missing in the institution for them, and we decided to collectively rename one of the buildings after a local hero.l community activist in this part of london. so that for me is something that happens all the time, the most important gesture, the most

important gesture, the most important work becomes invisible. and the theme that you were invited to work upon is movement and migration, and of course you have got this extraordinary heat sensitive flooring that you have put m, sensitive flooring that you have put in, andi sensitive flooring that you have put in, and i have not seen it yet and sensitive flooring that you have put in, and i have not seen it yetand i have seen the floor and i have not seen what is supposed to happen because if you get beyond the threshold of roughly 300 human bodies giving their heat to this floor... bodies giving their heat to this floor. . . and bodies giving their heat to this floor. .. and working together. working collectively, that is the point, i guess. working collectively, that is the point, iguess. if working collectively, that is the point, i guess. if that happens, there is the big reveal. i have not seen it because we have not hard their 100 people on it yet, but what happens? what we will see is the portrait of a young man that who was suggested by natalie powell, when we invited her, and we asked hurt to give us an example of somebody you work with that represent the work you have done over 25 years. ——

bell. and she said yusef, i would say who is yusef? she said yusef is this kid who collected —— that we collected to get him here from syria. he arrived here homeless, without speaking much english, without speaking much english, without connections, and michael got together one of the organisations, in which natalie actually was working, and after five years of working, and after five years of working with him, that building his life back —— putting his life back on track, now he is studying medicine. say he is a syrian refugee who has made a successful life in the uk, in a new country. yes, and also it shows how much knowledge we can acquire. -- so he is. in our countries, when we let immigrants be pa rt countries, when we let immigrants be part of our world. and this ties in

with other work you have done, with this immigrant movement, international, that you have worked with for a long time. you have done some extraordinary installations, one of which here in london involve people having to take a lie detector test to enter your exhibition and the test is based on the immigration test that people face when they come into the uk. yes. all this seems to bea into the uk. yes. all this seems to be a message that you are delivering about the positives of migration, but you must surely be aware that in many countries around the world, including in the uk, immigration has become the most sensitive political subjects, with many people feeling that aggression today threatens the identity, their culture, their economic well—being.” identity, their culture, their economic well-being. i think there isa economic well-being. i think there is a lack of education around migration, and a lot of politicians use the fear of the other in order to get people around their own political issues. and i also feel

that everybody has a right to move in the world. really? everybody should have the right to move around. despite the potentially negative consequences on host communities? but the thing is we need to learn how to live together with people who are different from us. with people who are different from us. you have taken it to extraordinary lengths over the yea rs, extraordinary lengths over the years, one of the most striking, in 2011, he chose to live in a very prominent neighbourhood in queens, new york city, alongside a group of illegal immigrants who are eking out a living in new york and you have the same income as them, you have the same income as them, you have the same income as them, you have the same lifestyle as them and you lived, i think, for months like that. it wasn't that ultimately, a stu nt? that. it wasn't that ultimately, a stunt? because you could opt out about stunt? because you could opt out a bout lifestyle stunt? because you could opt out about lifestyle at any point. i am really struggling to see as an artist, what was the genuine, authentic merit of doing that? absolutely. i do understand where you are coming from, and of course

privilege means being able to leave the situation at any point. people who have no privilege, the people who have no privilege, the people who can't take, leave a place when they want, they are in the hands of others. so of course, as an artist, i have the privilege to move around the world, but what i want to do with my ours is for people to have empathy with others, to feel how other people feel, too understandable where other people come from. —— to understand where other people come from. do you think you persuade people, do you think you persuade people, do you think you change minds with your art? that is what i would like, but i don't know, that is not for me to say. that is something i would like art to do. let's go back a bit because you own one of london's most prestigious contemporary art museums and yet in some ways, yourjourney is quite unlikely because you were raised in the communist system in cuba, where culture was very much

pa rt cuba, where culture was very much part of the ideological hold, it was pa rt part of the ideological hold, it was part of the ideological hold, it was part of the ideological hold, it was part of the system, and you were supposed to toe the line, both artistically as well as politically. how did you become an individualist in that system? i don't think i am an individualist, i think i am a person who has a very clear goal with the work i am doing and they understand that everybody has a right to have freedom of expression. which in the system you are in, major rebel. yes, unfortunately in cuba, the government is more interested in power than empowering the people they should be working for. and yet i can't help but note you came from a rather privilege family, i believe yourfather was you came from a rather privilege family, i believe your father was a diplomat, he was inside the system. yes, he believed in the revolution andi yes, he believed in the revolution and i think what i could take from him was the idea of living in your principles. i have different principles, he has his, i had mine. did that lead to a fallout with your

father? yes, it did. when you began to push the boundaries of what was acceptable? yes, it did. what did he say to you? well, it was a very intense relationship. the first time i was little, but the second time it was with my father... really, really? you mean he turned you into? yes, he turned me on. what? yes, yes. 1993, 19 94. he took you to the secret police and said he/she is, do what you want with her? yeah. that is extraordinary. that is what happened in —— that is what happens ina happened in —— that is what happens in a country like cuba where everybody feels that they have to say himself, and if you go against the government, things are so dramatic that you have sometimes people turn against their families. could you forgive your father for that? it was very tough relationship after that, it was hard for me, it

was painful. but at the end, it he got in disgrace, like happens to a lot of people, he started seeing reality for what it was and not from his ivory tower and, i am happy that before he died, he said that he was pa rt before he died, he said that he was part of me and that i was right. so i think that was the time we...m is interesting because obviously over the years, you push the boundaries further and further. there is one series of works you have done that you have shown in cuba and overseas, in which you use different scenarios and different formats to invite people to think about censorship, about freedom of expression, one of your installations inside havana as part of the whispers series, you put a microphone on the stage, it had sought pretend security personnel on either side and you're invited cu ba ns to ta ke either side and you're invited cubans to take the microphone and speak their minds. —— you had a sort of. and of course, the authorities

closed down. they regarded it was a fundamental threat to the security of their system. they don't even wa nt of their system. they don't even want people in rationing, they can be free. that is the problem we have in cuba, they don't want people rehearsing, feeling freedom. so what ido rehearsing, feeling freedom. so what i do with my ours is i take the propaganda the government has in cuba, oran propaganda the government has in cuba, or an institution has, and i put to the test. when i did that project, raul castro was just coming into power, but of course it was not really theatre, where people knew who was talking in a meeting, what they were saying, it was all a script. and i said well, if that's what you want, let's do it. and of course, what was revealed is it was alive. but i conceive he was an artist, it was important to do this evenif artist, it was important to do this even if it threatens your security 01’ even if it threatens your security or safety, your freedom. even if it threatens your security or safety, yourfreedom. but by inviting other cubans to take part

in this sort of performative, artistic experiments, you were putting them in danger as well. well, it is true that there are consequences in cuba when you step in. and you speak your mind. in the case of that peace and other pieces, because in 2014, i also called for people to go to the square to do the same piece but in the public square. i know, exactly. and there were 86 people injail, including myself but also other people, people i did not know. wasn't there an enormous feeling of guilt quiz that they are in prison because they decided to help you make your art. because they decided to help you make yourart. —— because they decided to help you make your art. —— guilt?|j because they decided to help you make your art. -- guilt? i think my art isa make your art. -- guilt? i think my art is a political statement and i invite people to be together and think together, how to create a political statement. yes, i feel responsible, more than anything. and it is interesting, because every timei it is interesting, because every time i was in prison in

interrogation, i said you have to liberate my audience, you have to liberate my audience, you have to liberate the audience of the work. i never told them those were dissidents or those were, why, because i was —— i was affected because i was —— i was affected because it was an art piece. because i was because it was an art piece. because iwas in because it was an art piece. because i was in cuba, otherwise i would have been imprisoned. i was in cuba, otherwise i would have been imprisonedlj i was in cuba, otherwise i would have been imprisoned. i wonder, i was in cuba, otherwise i would have been imprisoned. iwonder, if we are being honest with each other, was that really a piece of art, or was that really a piece of art, or was it a piece of activism? in the end, are you more of a political activist then you are an artist? in my case, i see both as one thing. i cannot be like those people who are an artist during the day and in the weekend they go to a rally. i am from the revolution, i am the daughter of the revolution, politics is part of my everything. i cannot separate having spent on something that happens around me, versus expressing art or language, how that

is. but you see, you're developed this vocabulary, which is very interesting because it is sort of a unique way of looking at your work. you call it social art. i am wondering, where is the beauty quest that where is the aesthetic sense? where is the joy in your art? that where is the aesthetic sense? where is thejoy in your art? 0r maybe for you, it is not important. it is important, of course it is important. i have a sense of aesthetic in my work, but the is a pathetic doesn't come from looking at something, it comes from what you feel being part of something. so, when you discover, you can speak for yourself, are you discover you can be better than you think you can be when you discover that you are not afraid. that is beautiful. let me ask you about fear. is when you have been ticked up, have been arrested several times, how much feared to you feel? what happens is when you know when something is unjust,

injustice is something that you feel, it is not something you feel, at least for me. when you feel that the law doesn't exist, when you understand that the law doesn't exist, when you understand how the system works, yes, you are afraid, of course, but all of this understanding, all of this feeling thatis understanding, all of this feeling that is not fair, is notjust, is overpowering whatever fear you have. is it true that you once looked at one of your interrogators and said that you, what you're doing to me make my art better? yes, i did. i also told you don't know what you're doing because i was a true believer in the revolution and now i have doubts. so, despite what appears, perhaps to the outside word —— world, to be a slow change in cuba. your message world, to be a slow change in cuba. youi’ message seems

world, to be a slow change in cuba. your message seems to be quite bleak, i know that you and others collected artists right now in the country are extremely concerned about what is called decreed 349. correct me if i am wrong, i understand by the end of 2018, all artists in cuba, whatever their status, whatever their particular artform, are required to, in a sense, get a stamp of approval from the ministry of culture to allow to continue to work. absolutely. not only that, if you decide not to do it, they will take away your permit as an artist, as they have done already with some as a test. meaning you can never exhibit or by art, or sell your art or do anything related with art in the country. they will ta ke with art in the country. they will take your equipment, your instrument, your house, your cars, whatever they think is helping you to do the art all you had used in the process of showing the art. u nfortu nately, the process of showing the art. unfortunately, i think that creates

promise where there is not. meaning there will be a huge space and a huge vacuum that can be filled with corruption. the people in cuba, the interrogators and the minister of culture already have sentenced me as a non— artist. in cuba, once i enter the country, i am not an artist. a decide that for you. that is the problem with 349, the government decides who is and who is not an artist, what is and what is not art. when they interview you like this, they hear you speak so frankly about what you see as the failure of their system and the deadening effect of their system on ideas, expression and creativity. had you know that when you go back home, you won't be put back in a police cell? —— how do you know. serious, every time i come home since 2015, every time i enter the airport i am stopped and have to wait one, two, three hours until the secret police come and interrogate me when i go in and when i go out.

sometimes in between as well. but thatis sometimes in between as well. but that is ok, i have nothing to hide. doing anything wrong. 0nly —— are not doing anything wrong. i only wa nt not doing anything wrong. i only want people in cuba to be free and speak their want people in cuba to be free and speaktheir mind. want people in cuba to be free and speak their mind. said a lot of interesting things to me about the relationship between your creative impulse and your critical feelings, which are clearly very strong. you say you are a daughter of the revolution. it one particularly interesting piece not so long ago where you announced, as a sort of artistic experiment, that you are going to run for president in cuba. no, the press loves this kind of news. what i actually said in the video was because elections are coming and because they are com pletely coming and because they are completely controlled by the government, meet together with a group —— government, meet together with a gi’oup —— me government, meet together with a group —— me together with a group of kvists, wanted to tell every given to propose themselves as a candidate. i said to propose themselves as a candidate. isaid if to propose themselves as a candidate. i said if i am asked to

do it, i would do it too. i start by proposing myself, buti do it, i would do it too. i start by proposing myself, but i never said president. in a way, this whole interview is about is the word line between your activism, your art and your politics. —— word line is. frankly, given the sort of people we see to go into politics and who don't have a political career, but think they can come in and think they can run a country. you can guess what person i am eating of... trump. are we allowed to say names? you are not a politician, we have a lwa ys you are not a politician, we have always been proposed with politics and activism. why not? as soon as you see somebody like trump become a precedent, or people who thought they could become president thought twice. for me, it is not important to be ina twice. for me, it is not important to be in a position of power, or to have every light on me. for me, the

important thing to me is to make sure that people, that there is an educational process with the people, where everybody starts understanding how it feels to be himself. is very ha rd how it feels to be himself. is very hard because in cuba, we have 50 yea rs, hard because in cuba, we have 50 years, where it even fathers, the pa rents, years, where it even fathers, the parents, are the censors of their kids. you don't need to go out, in the house they orientate to say that, you will get in trouble, shut up. that is what i am interested in, how can we create a social project that educates people into being the best they can be? that is not what is happening in cuba now.|j best they can be? that is not what is happening in cuba now. i am still com pletely is happening in cuba now. i am still completely blown away by the story of you and your father, but it strikes me in the course of this interview, everything you describe about your experiences in cuba makes actually think that you wouldn't be the artist you are today, had you not been through all the experiences you have been through in cuba. if you have been through in cuba. if you have been brought up with a relative freedom of being a

performance installation creative person in london, you probably wouldn't be the artist you are today. it is important not to romanticise censorship. it is important not to idealise moments of repression when people are more creative because of it. but also, let's be clear, the world is full of problems. not only cuba has problems, the world is full of injustices and it is full of irregularities that are very unjust. soiam irregularities that are very unjust. so i am sure i will have done something. in the end, to conclude on that thought, will you always regard cuba as your home base, your creative centre, or could you end up leading cuba behind? that is a hard question. because cuba is still painful for question. because cuba is still painfulfor me. and you cannot abandon something that is painful. yes. tania bruguera, it has been a

pleasure having you on hardtalk, thank you very much. the pleasure is mine, thanks. hello there. the weather for the next couple of days is looking fairly benign before something a bit more active appears during the course of the weekend, with some pretty heavy and persistent rain for some. the pressure chart, as we head into thursday, shows high pressure dominating the scene for most. this weather system will continue to encroach into the far north—west corner into the country to bring increasing breeze, cloud, and outbreaks of rain. further south, mainly dry bar the odd light shower around, bit of early mist and fog which should clear through the morning. much like wednesday we should see the clouds thin and break and some sunny spells.

the wind lighter across the south, turning stronger across this north—west corner, where it will be cool. further south, given some sunshine, this warm air mass, it could make 17—19 or perhaps 20 degrees. heading through thursday night, the weather front in the north—west sinks further southwards and comes to a halt across central parts of the country. here it will be wet. to the north, clear and quite cold. to the south, variable cloud and also very mild conditions. for friday, we'll have a 3—way split. we continue to see this weather front through central areas, bringing outbreaks of rain to northern england and parts of wales. to the south of it, given some sunny spells, again in that mild air mass, it's going to be quite warm, temperatures around 20—21 degrees. to the north of the weather front, scotland and northern ireland, largely dry but cool. 10—12 degrees. still some uncertainty on the weekend weather. it looks like this developing area of low pressure will bring a spell of very wet weather,

primarily to england and wales, much of scotland and northern ireland, bar the off shower should stay largely dry on saturday with some sunshine. it could be very wet across parts of england and wales, particularly central, southern, and eastern england. up to an inch in spots. it will be feeling quite cool generally across the board. across the far south—east we could see temperatures in the high teens, before the cooler, wetter weather moves in from the west. on sunday, that area of low pressure pushes off into the near continent. a ridge of high pressure builds. we could see a window of fine weather before the next weather system makes inroads across the north—west corner of the uk. meanwhile, a clearance across the south—east. winds picking up once again across the north—west. elsewhere, it should be fairly light. in the sunshine, it won't feel too bad. temperatures ranging from 12 to 15 degrees. so the weekend is certainly going to be a mixed one. there will be quite a lot of rain for some of us. there will be some spells of sunshine as well,

so it's not going to be a complete washout. a very warm welcome to bbc news — broadcasting to our viewers in north america and around the globe. my name's mike embley. our top stories: rescuers say time is running out in the desperate search for survivors from indonesia's earthquake and tsunami. translation: she often asks, "where's my mum?" "where has my mother gone?" i tell her we're still looking for her, or i say "your mother has gone on a long journey." authorities are still struggling to get aid to some areas. many survivors are thirsty, hungry, and have no shelter. britain accuses russian intelligence of a series of cyber attacks on organisations spanning the worlds of politics, business, media and sport. footballer cristiano ronaldo says he firmly denies raping a woman